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The smart way to create a compassionate and professional lactation private practice, hosted by private practice IBCLCs Annie Frisbie and Leah Jolly.
Leah Jolly is a private practice IBCLC with Bay Area Breastfeeding in Houston, Texas.
Annie Frisbie is a private practice IBCLC serving Queens and Brooklyn in New York City and the creator of the Lactation Consultant Private Practice Toolkit.
Tune in each week to learn all the ins and outs of running a successful private practice lactation business!
Connect with Leah and Annie:
On Instagram: @lactationbusinesscoaching
On Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lactationbusinesscoaching
On YouTube: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLv3-4pMgjlzbXD9KWFCIV3-1LipsTbgsj
Leah: Let's dive in. Hey Annie.
Annie: Hey Leah. How are you?
Leah: Doing good. How about you?
Annie: I'm good. What's it been like in your private practice since we last talked?
Leah: Oh man. You know, in private practice how everything comes in waves. So right now the wave I'm riding is tongue tie that presents at three months, where everything was going great. Mom has huge milk supply and then all of a sudden we've got crisis situation. Babies drop weight, baby can't feed, pulling on and off, and I've had like five or six of these babies in the last two weeks. So I am all done. I'm ready for the next wave. New wave please.
Annie: Those ones are so frustrating too because everybody was feeling so good, and then the mom, she's so defeated. Like I thought we had this and now we don't.
Leah: And it's everything's just so much more complicated. You know, it's just not that straightforward. Oh I think your baby might have a tongue tie. Let me refer you to a provider. No, we have so many other stuff to deal with and work through. So yeah, I'm ready for my next wave, although I'll probably jinx myself and get the wave of low milk supply, which I also don't love.
Annie: Oh gosh.
Leah: Oh man. So what's going on in your neck of the woods?
Annie: I had one of those fun New York city experiences that happens to me quite frequently, where I just bump in to one of my clients on the street, and this one was somebody who tugged at my heartstrings for the months that we worked together cause she and her baby just basically went through literally everything that people could go through, and it was so hard and I saw her a whole bunch of times and there were specialists involved and lots of crying and texting. And then as it happens, we kind of finished our work together and I hadn't heard from her in a while because that's what happens. They ghost us not because they mean to, but just because they're done. They're not thinking about their lactation consultant anymore. I bumped into her, she was smiling and her baby was smiling and it was like a really nice day and she was like, you were so helpful, and I'm feeling like we're doing so well and it's just thank goodness. I need that pick me up where you get to see somebody in the flesh and life goes on, and that's what i want for my clients.
Leah: Oh, I love, I love that. I love it when that happens. Sometimes I'll have a mom just randomly messaged me six months down the road and be like, you made such a huge impact, and sometimes it's so weird especially in cases that you weren't sure.
Annie: Oh yeah
Leah: They were happy with everything, but you're not 100% sure, and then they come back and they're like, you are the most amazing thing and you are like, yay! I feel so good at that.
Annie: We have to treasure those moments because we don't get them a lot, and then when we come, you know it's almost like get the one and just tell yourself that there's 10 more behind that that you're never going to hear from. But they are out there and just cherish it and treasure it and just say, yes, this is me. This is what's going on. This is how good I am and take that.
Leah: You know what I was just thinking, Annie? As a side tip, you should write it down and stick it in a file, and then on a bad day just have your file, because I have a file of thank you cards and stuff that I've gotten and I definitely look at them on bad weeks and you should write that story down so you'll always remember that situation.
Annie: Oh, that's so good.
Leah: That would be so awesome to come back, you know, 10 years down the road and just think, Oh my gosh, I had that impact.
Annie: I love that. That's such a great idea. So that was like a side tip on how to make lactation consultants feel better about themselves and I do love that. Before we get to today's episode where Leah and I are going to talk about how to set appropriate limits with your clients without compromising follow-up. Oh my gosh, I just got a pit in my stomach, even just saying.
Leah: I know, and it's so hard. Yeah.
Annie: Before we dive into our topic for today, Leah, I know you've got a marketing tip for us. So what is it?
Leah: I do. So one thing that can happen when you're trying to get more social media content is you just start sharing blogs and articles, and those can be great and your audience is probably going to enjoy getting some good quality information. But in our line of work, this is an interpersonal relationship you build with these people. And one thing that I have found and used a lot or try to use a lot on my social media is more interaction that's personal. So whether that be live videos where you do something really brief shout out so that people get to know you. Also posting things that are a little bit more personal. So you might say questions that are a bit more personal that are obviously coming from you. I think this really helps the audience get a more personal feel, which is going to make them more comfortable when they decide they need your help. You're more personable. They know, Oh I can recognize this person caring. They seem very compassionate versus just getting information from your social media content. So that's my tip for the day.
Annie: I really like that. We work with people on such a personal and intimate level that any chance you have to communicate warmth and friendliness and approachability, go for it. That's going to be the best advertisement that you can do for yourself, even more than touting your clinical skills. I mean that's important, but people really want to feel like you're going to be nice to them.
Leah: Yeah. And I always think of it as you are literally the product that you're selling. So you have to describe your product and get your audience to know more about the product because you want them to buy you. So we have got to have that content on social media too.
Annie: Great. That's perfect.
Leah: So let's start follow up. I'm so excited to talk about this because it's an area that I can admit that I struggle with and I know you are. You, I know have probably better boundaries and better than I have done. So I'm so excited to learn from you and also get to share things that I've just experienced over the years as well with just follow up and how do we make follow up work without pushing our limits and boundaries.
Annie: Yeah, there's a lot here and I think it would be great to just first talk about why follow up is so critical to the work that we do. So the model that I see most lactation consultants doing at first, and it's definitely how I started out, which is the one-visit model with tons of follow-up or unlimited follow up. There's a reason for that. And I think the reason is that we know that the insurance companies are going to be giving our clients trouble about the reimbursement that they're supposed to get. And so we feel bad for them because we know we have to charge money for our time and that money might be hard for our clients to part with. So we feel like we want to give them a ton of value and we also don't want them to think that we're just trying to get money from them. Like okay, you have to have me come back because otherwise we can't fix it, and they are spending money after money after money on this lactation consultant who's getting rich off of my misery and none of us wants to have that appearance to clients. So there is a good reason when you're first starting out to be kind of expansive with your follow up policies, mainly because you may not be able to answer your client's questions during the visit. There might be times where you're going to say, I need to go and do more research about that. Or connect with your mentor, ask questions, do more homework and you may want to just give them a free follow-up phone call where you can keep talking about stuff, or as a way to continue training yourself through client interactions.
Leah: Absolutely. I did a lot of that. I'm going to come back for this follow-up cause I needed to lay my eyes on the outcomes and I knew that it was a learning experience for me. That was very early on, like maybe the first six months or so. But it did really, I think solidify my training and I felt like, okay, yes this is working, these plans that I'm implementing are working, and I felt like I got some extra learning through that. So that's a really good point about early on practice.
Annie: I think it's important what you identified, which is that when you are giving more follow-up than maybe is required or are going above and beyond, that there needs to be something in it for you too and I don't mean that in a callous way. But piggybacking off of what you said very early on, I had some clients where I had done two visits with them. This happened three times. I had done two visits with them that they paid out of pocket and the mom was still experiencing a ton of pain, and I really felt like I need to go back and see them a third time. But I don't want her to associate pain with spending money on the lactation consultant. But I needed to see her again. I needed to know what was going on with her and her baby, and so I volunteered to give them a free follow-up, the third one and not charge them, but it was for her but it was also for me.
Leah: Yeah. Because I'm sure you learned a lot out of that situation and you were able to guide them even further than original.
Annie: But I really think that this single visit model is often unsustainable in the long term because of all of the follow-up that is required that takes place outside of the visit that does impact your personal life and your ability to see other clients and can be really intrusive. And the longer I've been in private practice, the more that I've seen I get better outcomes when we can take a slower approach with these dyads, where I'm saying we're going to do some of this now and then I'm going to come back in one week or two weeks and we're going to pick up and we're going to continue what we've been doing and it really does make a difference.
Leah: And I think it's like with everything lactation, very situational. So I'll have the lovely visits that we want to have where you just go in and you're like, Oh, move your baby here. Adjust this a little. Okay, perfect. The latch is great now. It was so amazing meeting you guys. Give a little education and we're out the door versus the ones where you know within the first five minutes, Oh man, this is super complicated, very complex and I will start prepping from very early on in the mindset of the family. This is not going to be a onetime fix. We're gonna need to start planning on how we're gonna approach this I will involve them in the timelines, even do you think that we could sustain whatever, triple feeding for three days and then we're going to recheck the weight and let's re-evaluate the oral function and then let's move to more oral work or something like that, and really get them involved in the planning of the follow-up too so that they know right off the bat this is going to be an investment and we're going to have to have multiple visits to make this outcome as desirable as we can.
Annie: And I think that is more palatable to our clients than it might sound just saying. It's scary to say I need to see you again. But I think what is scarier to our clients is being given a plan that's hard and no way to assess when that plan changes.
Leah: Yes, if it feels like they're gonna have to do it forever
Annie: And they do feel that way. So I've had clients who I see them at home and they've been triple feeding since leaving the hospital. And I am certain that someone in the hospital told them that they didn't have to do this forever and they either didn't hear it or they forgot or they're so deep in it and stressed out that they just don't even know what day it is. And it's important to have a way to check in with these clients who are on these hard programs to say, we have a day, we're going to talk about this again. So it could be an in person. I think in-person follow-ups are absolutely the best, but it also could be we're going to check in by phone, but to have it be a scheduled thing ideally that you are charging for, because when you charge for the follow-up it is going to make it more real to the client and it's going to show them this is not just me trying to stay in your life. I'm providing you a service and it's a valuable service and I'm expecting you to make an investment in it. I'm not here to wave a magic wand and fix it for you.
Leah: Yeah, and I think one example of how you could transition a client into understanding that you need follow up is sometimes I'll have a client that does text me. We use Spruce, so we have a HIPAA compliant text so I do allow families to text if it's brief, but if when the text comes up and I can't even see it all on one screen, I know that I'm going to be suggesting, this sounds really complex and you guys have a lot going on and for me to offer my best information about your situation, it sounds like we need further evaluation and I have an opening tomorrow for a follow-up. Let's go ahead and plan for that so that we can really get on top of this before things get out of control. That's just how I word it and I don't really dance around, start answering their question right there in that big long text., I'll just get right into, wow, this sounds really complex or whatever, and just go right into here's what I think we should do and here's my next follow-up time. Does that work for you? And 95% of the time they're like, absolutely, yes, please come. Let's do it.
Annie: I think that's great. And I think we really need to practice saying things like I'm not able to answer that without seeing your baby. One thing I tell my clients is I can answer questions and I will answer questions related to the care plan I'm giving you today, but I don't answer questions about new topics without seeing you in person, and I break my own policies all the time. I really think that's just because I'm a lactation consultant and my heart breaks for my clients all the time, but I do say up front that I do have these policies and I've created the policies so that you can reach your breastfeeding goals. So I don't have these policies because they're good for me. I mean they are good for me but I have them because they're good for you too because the goal is for you to be able to do this with your baby. You know that buzzword, client self-efficacy, but that's what our follow-up policies are about. And so for example, I think all of us have been there. When you get the text from the anxious client and she's freaking out and you start texting with her and she's texting back and all of a sudden you're standing in the middle of the living room staring at your phone, dinner is burning, your children are screaming and if you could take a step back, you want to ask yourself what would happen if I stopped texting with this person right this second? The answer is either nothing terrible or if the answer is something terrible, that she should not be texting with you. She should be calling her doctor or her paediatrician or heading to the emergency room, and by you engaging with her in this text chain, you really could be actually doing harm, either preventing her from taking the medical steps that she needs to take, or feeding into anxiety that is better dealt with by a therapist.
Leah: I always think - I don't know who said it, so I'm probably quoting I don't even know who - but there are no real breastfeeding emergencies. If it's an emergency then it's beyond what we're going to be able to do. We're going to be referring them out to a medical professional to take next steps, so I really believe that there's probably few instances where we need to be ...well, there's probably none that we need to be neglecting our own lives, but if there ever is, it's a quick, Hey, you need to get in touch with your paediatrician. That sounds very serious. I'll let you go so you can go ahead and give them a call.
Annie: And saying things like, I'm concerned with what I'm hearing. I would love for you to call your paediatrician about that and let's touch base and maybe suggest an in-person visit, or please send me an email later so I can respond to it in depth. I use that all the time with my text clients. They text me a super, super long, complicated question like the one you were talking about where it fills the screen. I will write back and I will say I've got your texts, I will respond in detail by email later because I want to slow that roll. I am not going to stop what I'm doing and I know that it is important. It may not be. We may be able to take a step back and say there are no breastfeeding emergencies, but I know that for her she is anxious and so I want to give her that I'm here, I'm listening and I'm going to answer your question, but not right this second.
Leah: Yeah. And I think we could both agree that there are certainly exceptions to every rule, every policy that we are talking about, cause I know I'll just have a moment where I'm like, Oh you know, I am going to take a step back and reassure this mom or sends some kind of information really quick that she could get started on while I take my time to then maybe respond in detail by email. So there are certainly some things like you said, so that they still feel like this is super important to you and I want to help you and I'm taking steps in that direction. I had that instance just recently. I had a mom just panicking about needing to start pumping and all of these things and so I went ahead and sent a little link about some pumping information and said I'm going to respond in detail by email. So she got something to get her mind like, okay, something's happening. I'm moving in the right direction, you know? But then I knew I had a moment to step back and not have to jump in on a full conversation about her situation right that minute because it was in the evening and I was busy
Annie: And that's fine to be busy and say I don't have time for this right now and I do like that approach of just sending a quick link. Here's a quick link. I will send you more later, and you know what is funny is that as I have moved away from instant responses and moved more into these delayed responses, a lot of times when I do send her the email, I get a reply back saying things got better on their own.
Leah: That happens all the time. Yes, it's like they just needed a minute to think through it on their own. It's almost like they were using that texting to kind of talk through it for themselves, and when we give them a minute to kind of sit on it and be like, okay, let me reflect on this. Ah, you know what, that is the answer. Okay, I know what I need to do. I feel like that happens all the time. Or you know, the baby just had a cruddy night and they were super fussy and then by morning the butterflies and rainbows come back and they're like, Hey, everything's fine. So that definitely happens all the time.
and she's like, my baby just was eating for 45 minutes and I'm freaking out and what is this? I don't know what's going on. I'm terrified. And you can write back something like, it's so overwhelming. My heart goes out to you. Hugs. Let me write you back later, and she's getting that instant dose of somebody cares. Somebody is recognizing that this is hard for me and that's often the best thing we can do in that moment, and not flood them with information because sometimes that information can make things worse.
Leah: Yes, make them more anxious if you're like, Oh they fed for 45 minutes. Well how's their output? Did you hear swallows? Were they feeding the whole time, the entire 45? Then you're just feeding into it and they are already anxious about it. Yes, I definitely have had that situation before and then you get the rapid fire texts. Oh no. Oh no. What can of worms did I open up here? But I definitely think that creating some policies for your practice that feel right to you, cause I think also every lactation consultant is different too and there are some that that is their style is to be full in and they might have big volume, but their style is to be, you know, a few clients a week, but they're all in all access. And that might feel right for their practice. Whereas another might need to have ...maybe they have a really busy life outside of their lactation practice, so they need very, very firm boundaries. I think that spectrum can be huge, but what are some policies for example that you have created in your practice, Annie that are working well for you that you can share with us?
Annie: Yes, so my policies I do tend to like fiddle with them, but what I settled on that really feels like it works for me is that my clients are able to talk to me about the care plan, so I send them the care plan. It is super detailed, but I tell them, I will clarify this for you. If you have other questions, you can purchase an email package where you can email with me. It's super cheap. It's $5 a week, but it's just for those things like for the client that doesn't want me to come back in person, but once the option of asking me back to work questions. That's what that is for. It's not for the care plan. I want to be able to talk to them about the care plan. So I make it clear to them and that I'm expecting that that piece of it is two weeks, and that after two weeks everything is a new problem. Even if you're still talking to me about the care plan, it's new and either I need to see you in person or at that point I become your cheerleader and you can still send me like things are going great and I'll say yeah, or send me a picture of your baby, but I'm not going to be able to give you any more clinical guidance without seeing you again in person, and I'm very clear about that. My clients have to sign my payment policies and my follow up policies. And the other thing that I do, this is me personally, I cannot talk on the phone. Over the years we have decided in my family that when either one of us is on the phone, it's a real problem for the balance in our family. It's hard on my kids. Our family dynamic doesn't support that. I don't have time for it. I have to push my kids away in order to talk on the phone and I'm not giving anybody good support. I'm too stressed when I'm on the phone. So I actually do not offer any phone follow up. It's either email, text message or in person, but I'm not going to talk to you on the phone and that's just my own personal policy. They love the phone and they would much rather have a phone call than send an email
Leah: Yeah, than try to send an email. I know, I know. And sometimes that's how I am. I don't love writing and so sometimes I don't feel like I'm going to pull my thoughts together as well as I would like to, or it just seems so tedious. To write this all out is going to take me 20 minutes when I can call this mom and just say it in five minutes, make sure she understands and move on with my day. So I definitely have some different perspectives on that. But I think it's so awesome that as private practice, we are able to make our own policies and that you can reflect on your family and you can say this is what works for my family and I can reflect on my family dynamics and know this is what works for my family. And I think that's just the amazing aspects of owning a private practice, and that we can all be so different yet give such quality care and really have great outcomes with our clientele.
I know one thing that's helped me is in the beginning - I think this is every first time lactation consultant - I was all access. You could probably get me to come out at midnight if you asked me to, because I was seeing all the people do all the things, and over the years it was definitely putting a strain on myself, on my family. And so I started to really pull back on after normal business hours consults and started to put in more firm restrictions on that. And then now that I have an assistant and other lactation consultants, I had to start considering their dynamics too, like they're not going to be able to work on the weekends or my assistant can't answer calls after 5:00 PM, so I really liked having on my voicemail for evening hours and weekends, I have wording that says these are the times that we answer the phone calls and we'll get back with you promptly. And these are the times that we check our voicemails as often as we can after hours. But we will get back with you is as soon as we can if it's through the weekend, so that we don't set the precedent that we're going to be calling you back immediately if it's Saturday and I get plenty of Saturday and Sunday phone calls, but it's so nice to know that they've heard that one, they can jump online and schedule with us if they wanted to, and two, that they're not expecting me to call back so I don't really have that hanging over my head cause forever I would feel so guilty if a mom called on a Saturday and I didn't call them right back. It would nag on me all weekend even though I was trying to spend my weekend with my kids, I would be thinking, oh that mom, she probably really wants me to come out. I should probably go ahead and give her a call. I would be thinking about her all weekend. So now that we have this on my voicemail, I feel like I just have so much less pressure. They know that I'm not going to give them a call or they're not having that expectation. I might be able to, and sometimes there's weekends where we don't have much going on. All my kids are with friends. I'm doing work stuff anyway. I might give a mom call back and get her scheduled for the following week and just get things set up because it was a good timing for me, but I don't have that precedent set.
Annie: You can give that. Your follow up policies really need to be about showing kindness to yourself and to your clients and just making everything really clear and really friendly and really accessible and really consistent. And one great way to think about setting up your policies is that policies allow you to make a very crucial distinction between what you can't do, which is very different from what you don't do. So the difference being, if you say, I don't return calls after seven o'clock. I don't see clients on weekends. That is your policy, and if somebody tries to get you to break that policy, you could just say, but I don't do that. That's very different than saying, Oh, I can't come out and see you this weekend. But why not? Oh well, because I have this thing happening and that thing happening and a basketball game and I'm getting a massage, and all of a sudden it's like, why am I getting a massage when I could be going to see a client?
Leah: Yes!
Annie: I have to see a client or otherwise this baby's not going to breastfeed. I don't see clients on the weekends. You're telling yourself my weekend is mine. I can choose to do whatever I want with it, and then you're afraid to say what I really want to do this weekend is I really want to call back that mom who is weighing on my mind and I want to check in with her. I can do that and it can be really hard for us to say I don't. You want to give to everybody, but it really - I'm going to tell you, this is something I've been working on in my own life. It feels really good to say I don't do that and that's policies like you do, and they're right there and they're written out and you've told your clients and you've been up front with them and it's not about you're not willing to do it for them. It's just that - you don't do that.
Leah: And I think it's so empowering for us to take those steps for burnout. I mean lactation consultants have huge rates of burnout and I totally have had times in my practice where I have gotten really close to like, you know, I'm done. This is too much. Everybody's pulling on me constantly. I can't get away. And then I always have that moment of stepping back and like, Oh, I haven't been holding myself to my own policies or my own boundaries. I have open the flood gates and it's so, so important for us to have an awareness of this. And I think great for new private practice LCs to be thinking about this and letting it morph and change over the years. I mean my policies have changed countless number of times as I've had more or less demand in my life and other areas. And I think it's just so, so important that we think about this in terms of our burnout rates because it's such important work we do and if we all do all the things, we all won't be doing anything because we'll all burn out.
Annie: I agree 100%, and I think the final thing I could share about follow up is specifically related to burnout and burnout for us, burnout for them, and the importance of recognizing when what's going on with your client is outside of your scope of practice. When you've got that anxious client that's texting you all the time, I really want you to get comfortable with saying to your clients, I'm very concerned about you. I would love for you to reach out for professional support because I am not a therapist, and I am not able to help you with some of these things that you're going through. I would love to help you find the right person who can help you. And that can be scary to say because you're like, Oh, I'm planning to deal with that postpartum depression, but you know what? It's not your job. You cannot do that emotional support unless you're a licensed therapist, and not even just legally but ethically. Don't go there. You don't have the skills. You really could be making things worse. So you know, you really need to just think about what actually is your role. Your role here as the lactation consultant is to support this dyad, this family towards meeting their breastfeeding goals as they've expressed them to you, and that every choice you make and the policies you set up is towards that end so that they can meet their goals and also so that you can be the best lactation consultant that you can be for the families you've committed to serve, whatever that looks like for you.
Leah: Well, that was just an amazing way to sum up all that we wanted to say today. That was a beautiful statement. I think that will end up being a tweetable right there. I love it. Well this has been awesome topic to talk about and I've really enjoyed it because I feel like even for me I'm reflecting on this information and thinking I need to work on some of my policies as well. But as we close up Annie, I know that you have a tech tip for us this week. What you got?
Annie: I do. And my tech tip is about follow-up and it's a super simple one. If you haven't done this already, I want you to learn how to turn the notifications on your phone off and the notifications on your computer off and the notifications on your tablet off. For example, if you're using Apple products, it's very simple. You can just put it into sleep mode and say between 7:00 PM and 7:00 AM you're not getting notifications on your phone, and that is a very simple way to tell yourself I don't have to look at this unless I want to. So learn how to turn your notifications off. You'll be so happy with yourself.
Leah: And I always think if I get the notifications turned off and then also have a scheduled time, it's almost like I look forward to it. I don't know who's emailed me. I don't even know. I can't wait till my scheduled emails sit down and answer email time because it's like you get to open a big surprise instead of I already know I have this one, this one. Oh yeah, she had a really big thing. Nope, my brain gets to sit still until my scheduled time to answer emails, and then I get to go through them one by one and it's kind of like Christmas morning. You just don't know what you're getting.
Annie: Ignorance is a beautiful thing.
Leah: It can totally be. So what do you have coming up for you? What you got going on?
Annie: I have got to figure out my schedule because I've got some family commitments that are throwing my consult schedule out of whack, which is like 15 different moving parts. I have to figure out some activity and my childcare and also when I'm going to actually see these people, or whether I'm just going to take a day off. I just don't know and I'm just have to sit down and deal with it and it's one of my least favorite tasks is managing childcare logistics.
Leah: That is always super tough. I know I am in the stage of life now. I know I'm a little bit past you in some of my kids' ages, so I have some inside working help. My older kids can help me with my younger kids unless they have so many ding, ding activities. I'm like, can y'all quit being so busy? Because it was really nice when you guys help me sometimes. They're getting super busy, my older boys and so it is definitely I think like working a three ring circus or something so I totally can understand your challenges with that.
Annie: Well what do you have going on? What are you working on?
Leah: I am developing a new class, a professional class and I've been working, had some time set aside. It's on the forefront of my mind because I was working on it this morning and so I just so enjoy developing classes and content and creating the PowerPoints and really, really looking forward to getting this content out there. So stay on the lookout. I'm excited about that, and like you, I think this time of year just feels like a lot of moving parts. We have a lot of kids stuff going on, different activities, things, projects for school. It seems like they have so many things and then Oh my gosh, somebody walked up to me the other day and said, did you realize it's two months till Christmas? Yes. Stop. Don't say another word. Don't even talk to me right now. Too much stress!
Annie: Plus it's baby season, because all the people who are like, oh, happy New Year. Let's make a baby, and now - stop! It's too many!
Leah: I know. I know. It's so funny how that all just seems to collide at the same time, so all the more reason for us to have wonderful follow up policies and boundaries so that we will be taking care of ourselves while we're taking care of our clients.
Annie: Yeah, 100%. Couldn't agree more. It was great talking to you, Leah.
Leah: It was awesome talking to you, Annie. I hope you guys have a wonderful rest of your week there.
Annie: You too. Bye.
Leah: Bye.