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When life gets hard, does what we think we believe hold us up, or does it crumble under the weight of doubt? I'm your host, Dr. Lee Warren- I'm a brain surgeon, author, and a person who's seen some stuff and wondered where God is in all this mess. This is The Spiritual Brain Surgery podcast, where we'll take a hard look at what we believe, why we believe it, and the neuroscience behind how our minds and our brains can smash together with faith to help us become healthier, feel better, and be happier so we can find the hope to withstand anything life throws at us. You've got questions, and we're going to do the hard work to find the answers, but you can't change your life until you change your mind, and it's gonna take some spiritual-brain surgery to get it done. So let's get after it.
Good morning, my friend. Dr. Lee Warren here with you for some spiritual brain surgery.
It's been about three weeks since I released an episode of this new podcast.
And the reason for that is that we've had three deaths in our family.
We've had a bunch of funerals and an incredible logistical challenge,
along with all of that sadness and time away.
So it's been a while since you've heard from me on spiritual brain surgery.
Today, I'm giving you the Terri Lee Cobble interview that we played on the main podcast.
A few weeks ago. I want to make sure you heard that. It's a great talk about
how to find God in the story of scripture.
We're going to have some brand new content for spiritual brain surgery this
week and some incredible new things coming for spiritual brain surgery in the
coming weeks and months.
Some amazing guests and some things you're not going to want to miss as we press
science and faith together in our quest to know more about God.
So without further ado, here's Terri Lee Cobble. We will be back with you with
some spiritual brain surgery this weekend and And some amazing new stuff coming up soon.
Thank you for your patience as we've been dealing with a lot of personal family
stuff in the last few weeks.
And appreciate your prayers for those of you who have reached out to us.
God bless you, my friend. We will talk to you soon. Have a great day.
Welcome to the Spiritual Brain Surgery Podcast. I'm Dr.
Lee Warren, your host, as we examine what we believe, why we believe it,
how we can defend it, live it, and share it with others. We use faith and science
to smash together to release the incredible power.
Learning how we're designed, operate our brains, manage our minds,
communicate with our Creator, and help other people find hope. Let's get after it.
Music.
Introducing you to a person who really doesn't need an introduction.
I've got Tara Lee Cobble with us today from The Bible Recap.
Welcome to the show, Tara Lee.
So happy to be here with you. What an honor. So grateful. It's the first time
you've been interviewed by a brain surgeon, right?
As far as I know, yeah. That's so great. Well, hey, before we get started,
Carolee, would you mind saying a word of prayer for us?
For sure. That'd be great. Father, what an incredible opportunity to talk to Dr.
Lee Warren today and his listeners and to have this conversation.
I pray for each person listening that there be something that you use to bless
them and encourage them and meet them where they are.
You know, every listener by name, you know, every Mark and every Teresa and
every Shirley and every Andrew.
And I pray that every person who's listening, you would show up in a way that
is very specific to them. And.
Remind them of your attention to their circumstances, to their heart,
to the details of their lives.
And we just praise you that you are a God who can do that, that you are the
God who knows hearts and minds and life circumstances.
And you can speak individually through the same words to different people.
And so I pray that you would bless them. I pray a blessing over this conversation.
Will you be glorified in this conversation, Lord?
And we thank you for your son, Jesus, and we thank you for your spirit who dwells in us.
What a gift it is to be adopted into your family. We love you, too. Amen.
Amen. Thank you so much, Tara Lee. I'm excited to have this conversation with
you. And it just has a little bit of background.
About two and a half years ago, a listener of this show mailed a copy of your book to my wife, Lisa.
This is a gift and said, hey, you should check this out. And so thanks to that
listener, whoever you are out there. Isn't that great?
So and so she sent that book and we were already in the middle of a year.
We do pretty much go through the Bible every year.
And so we kind of set it aside for a while. And then this year decided we were
going to do the Bible recap and started doing the videos.
And it's just been so amazing because I spent my whole life reading the Bible.
And you have just every day something that Lisa or me or both of us say,
wow, I never thought about that before.
So it's been really great. And I appreciate you taking us through the Bible this year. So thank you.
I love that I get to read through the Bible with you. It's my favorite thing. That's awesome.
Hey, how did it come about? You know, how did your love for scripture turn into
a thing in your life and where did it come from?
And then how did that turn into the way that you choose to practice your profession?
Wow. OK, well, those would be two distinct questions as far as like the answers would be.
How did I fall in love with scripture? And then how did that become the Bible Recap podcast?
And the how did I fall in love with scripture? scripture, you know,
I grew up in a home where the Word of God was valued and esteemed.
My family owns a Christian bookstore.
My first job was working in that Christian bookstore at age six.
I had every opportunity to read the Word of God, to learn about the Word of God.
I was surrounded by concordances and commentaries.
And I took a lot of that in over time, but I had never read the story of scripture
in the order that it happened. And a pastor friend of mine encouraged me to do that.
And when he encouraged me to do it, I didn't want to.
Like, that's the honest answer. I didn't want to.
My experience of scripture was that when I tried to read the parts I was unfamiliar
with, they were confusing, frustrating.
I didn't know where to put them in the story, in the timeline of scripture,
because I didn't know at the time. But when you try to read the Bible front
to back, you're not actually reading in chronological order.
You're just reading in front to back order.
And I didn't know that the Bible was laid out like a library,
not like a timeline. And so.
This pastor friend offered to answer my questions along the way.
He's like, you can understand this.
And I was like, all that happens to me when I read the Bible is I accumulate
frustration and confusion, not understanding at all.
And he said, well, I'll answer your questions along the way.
So we had basically a phone call every week where I just brought my list of
questions to him and he answered them and it started to make sense.
And that first time that I read through, when I finished, the shocking part was not that I finished.
The shocking part was that I didn't like God. I finished reading the Bible the first time.
I was in full time ministry. And this was a really jarring, heartbreaking thing
to experience. because my whole life has been attached to the identity of the person of God.
And yet when I come to try to know more about that God that my whole life is
built around, I find that I don't like him.
Unpack that for a second. Are you talking about like the God of the Old Testament,
the war, and all the things that people talk about when they deconstruct their
faith nowadays, about what they find in the Old Testament?
No. No, it was I had I had just problems with who I saw God reveal himself to be.
And so whenever I talked to my pastor about this, he said, I have another challenge
for you. This time I want you to read it again.
And I want you to stop looking for yourself. Start looking for God.
And so, you know, when you read the Bible and you hope that now this was I should
say, this is not anything I was taught in church.
This was not anything my family taught me or believed or lived out or anything.
But I think inherently, as humans, we have this idea that when we do good and
we follow God and we try to honor God, that we get what we want. That's right.
That it is we can exchange it for our desires. Right.
And I didn't realize that that was buried deep in my spirit, that that was.
So when I'm reading scripture and I'm seeing like, oh, these terrible things,
like the disciples all die, like really hard, terrible death.
And like Paul spends the bulk of his time as a follower of Christ,
like in prison and being beaten and being like, it doesn't go well for them.
And like some of the men that we esteem the highest are have been kind of horrible
people. And, you know, like even David, who is a man after God's own heart,
A, did some horrific things.
And B, even as a man after God's own heart, one of the big things he asked God for, God says no.
And so, like, it was just I didn't like it.
And so I'm reading scripture and I'm seeing that, oh, this isn't something I
can exchange to get what I want.
And I was experiencing that in my own life as well. So I really was,
that tension was very felt in my life.
I had been nailing it in the morality area.
I was checking all the boxes and God wasn't giving me what I wanted.
And I was in full-time ministry. I had given my life to serve and honor the
Lord and wasn't getting what I wanted.
And I was like, this doesn't sound like a great deal.
And the hard part was, I believed it was all true. I believe the Bible was true,
all of it. and I didn't like him.
And so when my pastor said, read it again and stop looking for yourself,
start looking for God. What does he love? What does he hate?
What motivates him to do what he does?
I was like, okay, that's a different challenge.
I've never really thought about it that way. And I had to remind myself every single day to do that.
Because I'm so bent on looking for myself. What are my takeaways?
What's my to-do list? How can I be a good Christian? How can I force God into
a corner to make him give me what I want? That's what I'm looking.
Help me. What's the combination lock? I need that code.
And to read scripture, to look for God was just a whole different paradigm.
And whenever I did that, um, I fell in love, like same book,
different response because that lens changed everything.
It changed everything.
And, um, so what I, the way that a friend has described this,
that I now use as my descriptor is I went from having, um, a high anthropology
and a low Christology to having a high Christology and a low anthropology.
And that man it
is wild the difference that makes you're right
I'm gonna steal that line that's powerful you know
somebody said to me I fell in love with God's word I love it somebody said to
me that because we're into neuroscience and we talk about brain imaging and
all that stuff and somebody said the Bible is the only book that scans you when
you read it instead of you scanning it and it's exactly a great metaphor for
that the Bible reads you you didn't like what
you saw that first time and then you found you found
reading it to look who god is i said i heard you
talk about japeth in the old testament and you said something i'd
never thought about before when he makes this rash vow and his daughter comes
out and he's got to honor this vow that he's made to sacrifice her and you said
he didn't have to do that there's god has already given us a path to untake
a vow and take a punishment but not have to carry out a rash vow bow.
And we have all these stories where we think God's hammering us in some way.
But usually the truth is he's already handled that. We're just not obeying him.
Yeah. It's crazy. The things that we assume about scripture,
we just read them and we're like, why is God okay with David having so many wives?
And we're like, it doesn't ever say he's okay with it. It just says it's happening.
You know, it's descriptive, not prescriptive. That's right. That's powerful.
So then you you decided to make your whole life about the Bible.
How'd that come about? Yeah.
So my first, my first year through reading the Bible, not so great.
My second year reading through the Bible, when I started to fall in love with
the Lord, I was like, this is,
It's transformative. Why is nobody talking about this? Everybody has to read the Bible this way.
Again, I'd spent my whole life steeped in Christian culture.
I had never heard this concept.
I was in full-time ministry. I was at probably a different church every Sunday,
and I'd never heard preaching like this necessarily.
It was wild to me. Or maybe, Maybe, to be honest, like maybe plenty of people
had said it and they just hadn't said it in a way that I'd heard it. Right.
So to me, it was this incredible concept that my pastor had like my pastor friend had shared with me.
And I was like, I need to help other people do this. And I knew it was like an ongoing thing.
It wasn't just a you say it to somebody and then everything changes.
Like you've got to walk people through this because it's in human nature to
look for ourselves in the story.
And so I just decided to like there was a church that I went to at the time
and a lot of college girls at the time at that church that wanted to be like
collectively wanted to study the word. And there was not a program for that.
And so I went to one of the pastors. I was like, what if I just like,
could I just do something? And he was like, sure.
Yeah, this is great. Love it. Go sign this what you want to do.
So we just met every Sunday night and we like studied the scriptures together.
And I called it D group, which is just discipleship group.
And lots of other churches and colleges have names like that.
I didn't care that that was a widely spread name because I didn't ever plan
on it being anything more than just me and those nine girls.
And it grew a lot. I think something like.
I don't know, 300 plus dGroups on six continents and men's dGroups,
women's dGroups. It has really grown over time because a lot of people want to study the Word of God.
They don't want fluffy Bible studies and they don't want things that are,
again, high anthropology.
They don't want things that are man focused. That's right. And that's encouraging to me.
Every year, I would encourage the people in dGroup to read the Bible with me.
I read it every year. I read it chronologically.
Let's do this. And every year people would start off with me in January and
then they would fall off around, you know, February.
And I was like, goodness, this is so frustrating because you're going to learn
so much about God if you read the Bible.
And I know we're studying the Bible, but reading the whole Bible is different
than studying deeply in a specific text.
Both are necessary and helpful.
I wouldn't suggest just one or the other. I suggest both.
And so that's why I was like, we're in Digger. We're studying these texts together.
Gather these specific texts.
We're diving into books of the Bible, but let's also read the whole thing so
we understand what this means in context.
But people would fall off and fall off.
And so nine years into dGroup, I finally had one member who said to me,
Tara Lee, you said the only reason you made it through was because Lee helped
you, your pastor friend.
Would you help me? Would you answer my questions every week?
And I was like, oh, yeah, sure, sure. I'll do that. Yeah.
And nine months in, she was finishing the Old Testament and she said, we're on a walk one day.
And she was like, I cannot believe I'm about to finish the Old Testament.
First time in my life. This is incredible.
I couldn't have done it unless you would walk me along step by step.
And then I had the thought, okay, she only did it because I helped her.
I only did it because Lee helped me.
And I want everybody else in D group to do this. So how How could I hold everyone's hand?
But remember, they're on different planets. They're not on different planets.
They're on different continents. That's right. Interplanetary Bible studies is a future thing.
They're on different continents. They're in different time zones.
How can I do this to serve as many people in D-Group as possible?
And I came up with the idea of a podcast that D-Group members could listen to
in their own time zones. And my prayer was that 300 people in D group would do this with me.
And at the time, I think we had about 1200.
So I think I was looking at like a quarter of our membership,
just a quarter of the people in the group.
But so I had a very small dream that God had a very big plan for and was really
taken off guard taken it took me caught me by surprise.
So just praising God that he has used it in the lives of so many people because,
you know, he's done exceedingly more than I could ask, think or imagine.
That's for sure. And when you say that, I mean, just the listener may not know
this, but the Bible Recap was the number one podcast in the world recently,
ahead of Joe Rogan, ahead of everybody.
And it's every day right in the top of all the podcast categories.
Something like what, 25 million downloads the first year or something.
Is that right? Right. I, I'm terrible with numbers.
I did check the numbers right before this podcast. Cause I, people often ask,
we just crossed 350 million.
Um, uh, you know, this is our, we've had a little over five years on a podcast
now. So that's incredible.
Um, yeah, but I don't remember those first year numbers, but yeah, that's incredible.
It's happening because, well, let me ask you, why do you think that's happening?
What do you think God's up to
that everybody on the planet seems to be interested in reading the Bible.
Man, aren't we all trying to
understand life? Aren't we all trying to understand purpose and meaning?
And what I have found and what I state every day, you know, if you've read the
book, watched the podcast, watched the YouTube, I'm a creature motivated by joy. I want joy.
And every day we are finding it in God's word.
That's how we end every day's podcast with the phrase, he's where the joy is.
Every day we're pointing to the character of God. We're helping you learn,
training you in how to look for the person of God and his character in scripture,
even in the genealogies, even in those boring old Testament laws about boils
and sores, things that are disgusting or hard to understand.
We're finding the character of God and it is winsome and enticing and beautiful and joy-inducing.
And just, I think when people see that, not only do they want to share it,
which is why your listener sent you that book, they want to talk about it,
which is why we're having this conversation today.
And so word of mouth is getting out about how incredible the God of the universe is. That's right.
That's incredible. And I think you're exactly right. Right. I think God is trying
to use is using every available medium, technology, person, willing heart to
share his word and his love for people.
And, you know, I think when you talk about that, God is where the joy is.
It'd be a good time to tell you that a lot of the listeners,
most of the listeners of this show probably are people who have been through something really hard.
We call it the massive thing. You know, we lost a child in 2013.
And a lot of the listeners are bereaved parents or people who are going through
losing a spouse to cancer or something like that. And you're no stranger to suffering either.
So maybe talk a little bit about how you find your way towards hope through
Scripture and some encouragement for the listener that might be in the thick of that right now.
There is a quote, and I don't recall who said it, so forgive me.
But the saying is, the deeper sorrow carves into your being,
the more joy it can contain. That's right.
And so for those of us who have experienced the massive thing,
and it has just carved this rut into our soul, into our being,
into our hearts, that is the space.
And I know some of you listening are there and you're like, yes, and amen.
And some of you are like, I don't believe it yet. I don't believe it.
I don't believe that there's any way that joy can fill this cavern.
That is what I've seen to be true. I lost my sister Gina to brain cancer in 2016.
I'm sorry. It's her second battle with brain cancer.
And she won the first battle three years earlier. year. And,
um, I watched my sister, uh,
before her first, I tell people before her first battle with brain cancer,
if you had a conversation with her, she would have talked to you about one of
two things, guns and the government. Those were her two.
Those were the two things she really wanted to talk about with everybody she
encountered. And she had very strong opinions.
And, um, after her first battle with brain cancer, those opinions didn't change.
She just didn't care to talk about him as much. He talked about the Lord. Wow.
Um, that became her focus.
And so after her second surgery for brain cancer in 2016, January of 2016,
um, she woke up and she couldn't,
literally the only way that she would answer questions were with bits of scripture
that she She had memorized. Wow.
So, you know, we even wondered, like, is this, is her short-term memory gone?
And this is just her long-term memory that all she's holding onto is scripture.
You know, we didn't know. Yeah.
But the only way she would answer questions was with scripture.
Wow. When you asked her how she was, like, I remember one of the first questions
my mom asked her was like, Gina, how are you feeling?
And she says God has not given us a spirit of fear but of power and of love and of sound mind wow and.
She's a different person in the best way possible,
And so we lost her shortly after that. And then, gosh, it was probably three
months later that I found out that I had to have open heart surgery to fix first effects.
So imagine me having to tell my parents who just lost their daughter to brain
cancer that their other daughter is about to have to have open heart surgery. Wow.
Um, so three months after I found out that I had, so six months post my sister's
death, I had, uh, the surgery to repair birth defects.
And, um, as they were prepping me for that surgery,
they found out, oh, you actually have another undiagnosed birth defect that
we have just discovered through this contrast dye CT that they had to do to prep me for it.
As soon as you get better from this open heart surgery, we need you back in
here for another one. Wow.
So two months after my second open heart surgery or two months after my first
open heart surgery, I had to come back for a second.
The first one is a sternotomy. They went through my sternum.
The second was a thoracotomy. They went through my bats.
And in the second, uh, surgery, I was electrocuted.
Um, and it burned a hole into my back, uh, about the size of a grapefruit.
And just trial after trial after trial thrown in there. My dad had a heart attack.
My brother was burned in an explosion and had to have skin grafting.
He was burned over a third of his body.
Just all of these tragedies that kept mounting in our family.
And the Lord met us in those spaces.
He received our anger. He received our grief.
Grief he received our praise all of
those things um none of those are emotions that
god rejected from us he didn't
like there was never how dare you doubt me like
when i read in scripture god shows up in those spaces he he meets our doubt
like in i think it's mark 9 24 the man who says to jesus forgive me if that
address is wrong um lord i believe help my unbelief Like how beautiful that
this man felt like he could express to Jesus his unbelief.
It is, it is a thing God receives from us. And so in those spaces,
when there are trials, um, that is an opportunity to draw near.
And, um, I ha I love God more on the other side of those things.
Doesn't mean those things hurt and, um,
Certainly, we've all heard people meet us in our grief with terrible things from Scripture.
They will, you know, the Lord gives and the Lord takes away.
Blessed be the name of the Lord. That's right.
God works all things together for the good of the, like, yes,
those things are true. Now's not the time to say them. That's right. You know? That's right.
And so don't let those people who mean well and say the wrong thing at the wrong
time, the right thing at the wrong time.
Don't let them show you who God
is. Like, draw near to him. Let his word reveal who he is. That's right.
I found that to be true after we lost Mitch.
It was trying desperately to find some place to put your feet down that would hold.
And for me, it was God's promises. Like he says in Psalm 34,
18, the Lord is close to the brokenhearted.
And I was like, okay, now's the time. I'm brokenhearted. Where are you?
And you would get a text message right then somebody
would send you a scripture or somebody would walk in the door with a hug or
something right at the right moment and that was God showing up and and
we found our way through that time by holding on to his promises and watching
them come true and and you're right even something like Romans 8 28 comes out
down the road to be true that good things can come out of that devastating tragedy
but it's not the right time to say it at At the funeral home,
that's not when you want to hear that.
So how do people find that hope? And how do you recommend that somebody who's
right in the thick of it, what do they do in terms of gaining access to God's
heart in Scripture when they're really hurting?
Oh, man. You know, I think I would say this. It's not really the answer to your
question, but it's a response.
I encourage people to build the boat before the storm.
Yes. And so if you have the opportunity, if you are not in the moment of crisis,
start storing up your knowledge about who God is in advance.
Um so praise god if you
are not in crisis right now thank god uh now is
the time to find out who god is to build
your life on the rock and not on sand and i
think you know with my sister gina i would say it feels a little bit like the
the early before her first brain cancer like a lot of her life was maybe like
sand like you know um and but it's never too late to relocate that's It's never too late to relocate.
If you realize your life is built on sand, either that you're building it on
things like your own good actions or involvement in good causes,
or even if it is morality and church attendance.
And I love to listen to worship music, but I don't really know if that worship
music is reflecting who God is because I haven't read the Bible myself.
Or I go to church and I hear about God secondhand, but I never experienced God firsthand.
So I don't even know if what my pastor is saying is true. I don't even know
if what these books I'm reading, these devotionals I'm reading,
are they accurate or not? Because I've never actually read the Bible.
So you might be building on sand on top of rock, you know, but it's never too late to relocate.
So pick up. Let's go. Let's build a life on the rock. Let's find out who God
is by digging into the word.
And if you are in a place of struggle, man, there are there are passages of
scripture that I spent a long time in during hard trials. else.
I, there were times where lamentations and the book of Job were the only passage
of the scripture I had the capacity to read because I felt like they got me, they got me.
And, um, sometimes Ecclesiastes, you know, those are spaces that I would lean
into when I was aching, when I was hurting.
But the minute you have enough breath in your lungs to steady yourself,
when you don't just have to be carried along by scripture, when you have enough
footing starting to lean in and start at the beginning and read the story of who God is.
Get to know the God of the universe.
If you're clinging to a life raft and it's just carrying you along,
like that is great. Like, blessed be the name of the Lord that he meets you
in that space and will meet you there.
And he will, you know, he's near the brokenhearted. He saves the Christian spirit.
And so let whatever passages of the scripture carry you along,
carry you along. And then the moment you hit ground.
Start looking for the rock to build on. I love that. Never too late to relocate.
The listeners of the show will recognize that what you just said about building
ahead of time. We talk about something we call prehab.
If you come to see me in my office for back pain or something,
and I'm going to send you for surgery, before I send you to surgery,
I send you to physical therapy.
I want you to get stronger. I want you to build some tools to get over that
trauma that you're about to face so you're ready.
And we talk about that in the context of getting scripture, getting promises
in your heart, knowing who God is. before you face that thing that you're going to go through.
But when it's the acute thing and you weren't ready, I love that.
It's never too late to relocate, hold on to something that's true.
Because that's what's going to hold you up. When you get really in the middle
of that big thing, you need something that's true. You don't need platitudes.
You don't need your friends showing up, you know, telling you stuff like Job's friends did.
You need something that's true. And that's what we find in Scripture, I think.
What do you think that the future is going to hold for TBR? What is your kind
of dream for it? What do you expect to see next?
Man, what's been so cool to see is how many families are doing it together.
So the evolution of TBR over the past five years has looked somewhat like this.
A woman is doing the Bible recap and her husband is like, what's that thing
you're listening to every morning?
I hear that. That's interesting. I want to talk about that.
And so then the next year they're like, well, let's do this together.
We should let's let's listen to this together. Let's read this together. Thank you.
And then they invite their neighbors to do it with them or their home group to do it with them.
And then suddenly the pastor finds out about the pastor's like,
let me check into this thing.
Oh, hey, this is something maybe our our whole church could do together.
Like, let's have the whole church do this Bible reading plan together.
So then the whole church is doing it. And then the kids hear them talking about
it and the kids hear the parents listening to it.
And so the kids are kind of like curious as well.
And so we have just started a kids line of products.
That's great. and the fact that they're learning from a young age how to read
the Bible looking for the character of God,
that they don't grow up being fearful of this God who's going to smite them
if they have a doubt, who's going to strike them with lightning when they sin,
if they actually understand the character of God.
And it is bringing families together. It is bringing churches together.
And so we are really excited to roll out more tools that help serve those units,
the family and the church.
And we've already built out a lot of things that serve the church.
Church a discussion guide that people can use
as they do in a small group daily study guide if they want something to help
help them dig deeper into the text on their own and we we just want to use those
as launching points to help the family in the church those two institutions
grow together to know God more together,
And that's exactly what happened with us. You know, somebody mails Lisa the
book, then her sister the next year, her sister's the headmistress of a classical
education school in San Antonio.
So she was doing the Bible recap. She kept telling Lisa, hey,
you need to do this. So this year is like Lisa's like, hey, we got to do this together.
So it's like multiple people bringing other people to the word.
And it's just been amazing. We appreciate your insights and the way that you've
dedicated your life to doing this and leading all of us towards getting to know
him more. It's great. Great.
One thing that you think that people don't know about Jesus that you wish they knew?
Oh, my goodness. I could go practical.
Like, I'm thinking of just like common misunderstandings of Jesus that we have
often because of Renaissance paintings. Yeah.
We're, uh, we're working through tackling some of those things,
um, in some of the studies that we're writing and just like addressing some of those things.
Um, or I could go spiritual, which I think is, um, probably the more helpful thing.
Um, you know, we see, I think a lot of of people, a lot of people understand Jesus rightly.
And I think what they don't understand about Jesus is that Colossians tells
us he is the image of the invisible God, which means Jesus reveals what the father is like.
We have this idea that God the Father is the big angry one and Jesus is the
nice one. And the Holy Spirit is maybe the like mysterious one, right? Yeah.
The Trinity, the triune God, all of them, all three of them have the same character and will.
They just have different roles in how they engage with humanity and how they
bring about our salvation.
And Jesus is exactly like the Father.
They are exactly the same in their character. Yeah. And so he is the image of the invisible God.
He has come to earth to reveal what the Father's heart is like.
And so when you read the Bible with us through the Bible recap,
you're going to hear me point it out all through the Old Testament.
The beauty of the Father's character. Like, hey, doesn't this look a lot like Jesus?
Hey, here's a place where God has really been misunderstood,
huh? Like, isn't this a big misunderstanding?
And so I think one of the things that we miss is that Jesus reveals who the Father is.
That's right. I think one thing I've really picked up on from you that I think
I sort of knew, but I never really thought about is that people think about
the Old Testament is God and the New Testament is Jesus. Like people have this sort of thing, right?
But Jesus is all over the place in the Old Testament. He's there in creation.
I mean, the Bible says nothing got made without him making it.
So when God said, let there be light, Jesus is doing physics and making light
like he's out there creating. And so I think I've kind of picked up from you
all the places to look for the angel of the Lord when you see that. That's Jesus.
He's in the story. So, friend, Jesus has always been there, always will be there.
And Terrilee is showing us how to see him.
Terrilee, I appreciate your time today. And I promise you, 35,
40 minutes, we're right up against it.
And I just want to encourage you to keep encouraging us.
You're doing a good thing for the kingdom and for the world.
And I just am very grateful for the work that you're doing and for the time
that you spent with us today.
Thank you so much. It's been an honor. I'm cheering you on and all your listeners.
I pray that God would bless you all.
Terrilee Cobble, what a great conversation. I hope you enjoyed that,
friend. Check out the Bible Recap. If you're not already using it,
Lisa and I listen to Terrilee every day.
We read the Bible and she does a recap, just a five or six minute recap at the
end with some concepts that she thought her God shot for the day, some insights.
And I've learned a lot from her. It's amazing. I've been reading the Bible my
whole life. We read it through practically every year, almost every year.
And still I gain new insights every day when I do the Bible Recap.
And I think that's the value in studying the Word with other people.
That's the reason that we have community is other people see something,
learn something about God, share it with you, pass it on.
You have insights and conversations about it. The Bible Recap,
great way to go through the Word of God.
She's got all kinds of things on her podcast that I have never picked up before.
So it's a good example of changing your mind about God. Look for God in the
story. Look for His character.
Look for his heart. Look for places where the Bible is describing what people
did and not prescribing what God wants.
Look for places where people took matters into their own hands and didn't follow the plan.
So don't blame God for things that people do.
I thought it was a great conversation. I hope you enjoyed it.
And we'll be back with more tomorrow.
But I wanted to give you this example of mind change here on Mind Change Monday
with Tara Lee Cobble. I'm Dr.
Lee Warren. I hope you have enjoyed this episode and I hope that you are able
to remember that you can't change your life until you change your mind.
And the good news, my friend, is that you can start today.
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Hey, thanks for listening. The Dr. Lee Warren podcast is brought to you by my
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Self-Brain Surgery, every Sunday since 2014,
helping people in all 50 states and 60-plus countries around the world. I'm Dr.
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life until you change your mind. And the good news is you can start today.
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