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We're going behind the scenes to see and understand modern agriculture, because no matter whether you're in it or not, you probably don't know all the pieces to just how incredible, diverse and multi-layered agriculture is. We do this by uncovering the real stories, experiences and voices of modern agriculture.
Unknown Speaker 0:00
G'day and welcome back to the humans of agriculture podcast. I'm your host, Oli leaf. Thank you for tuning in. No matter where you're listening to our podcast, I'd like to extend my respects to the traditional custodians on the lands wherever you are. It's the beauty of this content, it travels far and wide. And today I'm sitting on the land of the Agora and terrible people here in Brisbane. I'd like to acknowledge Indigenous Australians, as the oldest storytellers, they've used stories to create connection, pass on wisdom and share knowledge for 10s of 1000s of years, and hundreds of generations. And we would love to just be able to harness a little bit of that incredible storytelling ability and bring these stories to life. Today, I'm sitting down with an exciting and amazing human of agriculture. Jason strong is the managing director of Meat and Livestock Australia. And I'm really excited to share a little bit more about Jason's story with you. He's always grown up in and around cattle, he's had that absolute love for them for as long as he can remember, and it definitely comes out in this chat. He's found a lot of joy and fulfillment, whether it was in the cattle yards, around the show rings, it's the friends and networks that it's able to develop from him being a young fellow, but actually, he still finds himself back in the ring a little bit. And I may or may not have seen him in the ring once or twice as well, which has actually caught me by surprise. Today, I really want to know about Jason's story, how is this passion for what he does? How has it been shaped? And why does he continue to show up and influence and impact positively the Australian red meat industry and also Australian ag more broadly. In his early days, he played a key role in the establishment of meat Standards Australia, and he's been given the chance to work internationally. Ultimately, I wanted to understand a little bit more about where the beef industry is heading. They've set some really clear targets for where the industry wants to be by 2030 to be carbon neutral. And I wanted to understand from Jason Well, how have they come about setting these targets? Have they re evaluated? Where does the science sit on these different things? And also to where does marketing and the ability to transfer these stories and information come in? I was really keen to understand the whole plant based thing. Is it a real threat? Or is it just a perceived threat, and we chat a little bit about values, ethics, how it all kind of comes together in what was a really enjoyable chat here in Brizzy. So let's just jump into it.
Unknown Speaker 2:28
Jason, you're the CEO, Managing Director of Meat and Livestock Australia, a big business, big industry for Australian agriculture and a really significant one. And I think, really keen to understand some different aspects around the sustainability journey of the industry. But more so probably interested to understand more about you and how your career pathway has shaped this passion. Because I think when I talk to people in agriculture, and I say, why are you involved? They always seem to come back to the people aspect, which works pretty well for us. Firstly, welcome to the humans of agriculture podcast. Thanks, Ali. It's great. I'm really looking forward to having a chat with you. Last time I saw you were it was Sydney Easter, Shana reckon it was maybe the first time I'd met you. And I've got to say, I was actually surprised to see you're down at the Sydney royal it was a weekend. And you're manning it was, I think, in the Woolies pavilion or something like that. And it was about helping to educate and share the Redmayne story with these Sydney consumers. Can I ask as the CEO on your weekend? Why were you there? I actually don't remember that. But, but that's good, right? Because I think that goes to the core of why I would do those sorts of things. And without either of us realizing it, I think you've you've actually got very quickly to the core of what drives so much of what I do.
Unknown Speaker 3:44
Many years ago,
Unknown Speaker 3:46
I've had a number of experiences in my career, which have been quite influential in positive and negative ways, you know, and you can learn from negative. And I had a pretty challenging experience in a job years ago. But there's part of that there was a chap there that had all these really neat little sayings, which are stuck with me over time. And one of them was the true evidence of a man's character is how he spends his time when he doesn't have to. And I'm in a very public role in as Managing Director of MLA for better or worse. On the good side, you have a voice to talk about all the great things about the industry. On the negative side, you become a target for kind of everything. But but at the core is my passion for the industry. And that that's why I'm here, I love my job. And it's a great job. And that's a wonderful thing to be able to work for that MLA and the people we have and the things we can do. But it's this underlying passion for the industry, and how we
Unknown Speaker 4:40
tell our story and share. What we do is incredibly important. And things like the show like these to show where else to get an opportunity where eight or 900,000 people over a 12 day period, walk through a set of gates and they're kind of a captive audience.
Unknown Speaker 4:58
And I can have a disparate
Unknown Speaker 5:00
Washington impact with the experience I have and the ability I have to answer the range of questions and I can to any consumer, or potential consumer walking past and that type of environment. And that's a really neat thing to be able to do. And, and neither them or anybody else will know about it. And that's quite okay. So, I didn't realize that people notice that I do that.
Unknown Speaker 5:24
Always. Yeah, no, like, and I think it was, I was also surprised, but then at the same time, really, probably shouldn't be if that's genuinely what you're passionate about, like, how do you go when you have moments like that, say, in the public, and in your role, which is really looking forward of where the industry is in 510? However many years, do you find yourself coming back in after a weekend away like that? buzzing? Absolutely. And the thing that probably gives me the most motivation is when we we talk about the opportunity and what we can do, I think one of our biggest challenges as an industry and how often get asked things like, you know, what, what's our biggest challenge in front of us, and quite often we go to technical or structural things. But I really believe one of our greatest challenges is not taking advantage of the opportunity that's in front of us, because we know we have a really inherent negativity in the way that we approach things. So the, the thing that really gets me buzzing is when I'm talking about as an industry, you know, what we do or what we can do. And there's so many incredibly cool things that our industry has done, over decades, years generations, and you look at the way we solve problems, the way that we deal with challenges the way we find solutions. And I mean, talking to anybody about that is absolutely what what I get a buzz about, I'd love to know, because I find myself getting getting stuck a little bit sometimes where I'll say, the realist comes in, but actually, that realist is probably a master's a pessimist for myself. And I think of it in in my own kind of context. But is that something that you've, you've had to learn over your career to actually, I guess, pull yourself away from that, especially as a leader and a manager in a business to remain hopeful and optimistic, even in the face of uncertainty? It really is, it really is a challenge. And I'm sure some of my team and close friends would say that I do that really badly. Because I, I still take everything about our industry so incredibly, personally.
Unknown Speaker 7:33
Because I'm so positive and, and so excited about what it is that we do. I do take that stuff very, very personally. And I think we've got to find this balance between being being a realist about what is the challenge in front of us, but then also being able to see the opportunity that we have, and, and one of the things that has struck me in the last couple of years, more than ever, I think in particularly because we've had a couple of issues like exotic animal diseases, for example. And then now sort of our weather and pricing challenges, just how negative we can be.
Unknown Speaker 8:10
And what we forget, is that there's no challenge or problem that our industry hasn't resolved or resolved. And the thing we're really good at is being confronted with a challenge, getting past that on top of it and finding a better solution. Yet, it seems like when we get hit with the next challenge, our first response is how bad the challenge is, rather than this is just the next thing that we're going to deal with as an industry, just like we have every other time. And yeah, that's a big shift. That would be wonderful. If we could make that as a as an industry. It is now the beauty of podcasts is you can go on tangents. A couple of weeks ago, I was at the National Drought forum, and we were having a discussion about the impacts of drought on local communities. But then I also had this look at and I kinda think what we might end up dancing around today is this peace around mindset. And actually, what is the outlook and what's kind of reverse? What are we telling ourselves, but I, I kind of was sitting there and I thought one of the positives that come from drought and I remember last time hearing stories of school kids that would get up in the morning and then help feed stock and then go on to the school and then come back and then help mom and dad feed the stock. And it was it was actually building this true resilience in these kids. And I thought imagine what the business world and what city cousins and everyone else could actually learn from what these kids are going through, which is Yes, an extremely challenging time in the face of drought. But actually then how that will shape them for the rest of their lives kind of going forward. Yeah, it's interesting how how we take those learnings and and put them to the use for good rather than evil, I think is one of our big challenges. And because resilience is a really good term and as an industry, we are incredibly resilient. And the reason why I'm incredibly resilient is because of the resilience of the people that are in the industry. And a lot of
Unknown Speaker 10:00
that has actually been shaped by challenge. And, and the drought examples a really good one how how people leave lean into that challenge and find a way through it. The thing we don't talk about is how those skills and that resilience and those learnings that then put to fantastic use when things turn. So why can organizations or why can operations be so productive and impactful and respond so quickly when it does rain, and when there is market opportunity? Part of it is because they've built these skills and resilience in the time of challenge because they've worked out how to get through it.
Unknown Speaker 10:41
And I don't think we make those connections well enough, we talk more about what the perception I think, is where we do talk more about survival. And
Unknown Speaker 10:51
the successes we got to the end, rather than the building of resilience, like you say, and it's
Unknown Speaker 10:58
I was I was responding to an inquiry just this morning about the carrot challenge and the how the disparity that we're seeing, and so many things, and it's hard to talk about the future and the opportunity and the things that are in that
Unknown Speaker 11:14
in front of us a year or two down the track and how fantastic these things are going to be. When the immediate challenge this morning, this afternoon, today, this week, next week, is so confronting. And, and that's that's a real difficulty for us to strike that balance, you know, in a constructive way. And I think it's it's the challenges that we get using, you get stuck in the weeds versus looking ahead, but it's where are the opportunities? And who are those people actually around you that are saying, Actually, let's just get off farm for a day or so. And let's talk about where you see it going and kind of just getting away from the day to day. I want to jump back to talk more about you because the other thing from the Sydney Easter Show was, I think that afternoon, you're going to judge cattle as well. And this is something I think your connection to the grassroots is obviously there but judging cattle? Did it come through your childhood and really form and shape who you are today? Absolutely, it did. It's been one of the most influential things on on my life, and my career. And there's so much more to it. And it's really interesting, the the perspective that comes from that it's good, like he's having a podcast, we're gonna hit down tangent.
Unknown Speaker 12:24
A different view of someone who realized I was more involved with the Sydney show recently said, Well, why would you do that, you know, given the way that the world's moved on. And you know, what's the value in showing cattle when we should be using data and information and EBVs. And other things I said, Hold on, it's, it's got absolutely nothing to do with that whatsoever. There's actually about how we engage with the community, and we've got this critical mass of people that's kind of a captive audience is gonna come through the gate, they're gonna have to walk past, so let's grab them as they go. But it's actually more than that, when we think about the cattle judging piece. I got involved in cattle judging, because I love cattle, I can't remember the point in time when I didn't want to be a cattle farmer. And, and that's a bit of a big chunk of what I've done over my career. So I've just had this passion for cattle and livestock and anything to do with livestock. And when I was in my late teens, early 20s, any opportunity I could find to do more with livestock stock, I took it to help. I was actually in Agra politics and early 20s, because the Catalans union was a cattle specific organization. And that sounded like the sort of thing that I'd want to be involved with, because I was all about cattle. And cattle judging was the same thing, the opportunity to spend more time looking at cattle, talking about cattle, evaluating them. But what I didn't realize is the opportunity that provided and so the big three opportunities or impacts on my career was one of the big ones was winning the national Angus judging competition, which got me a trip to the US, which, at that point in my life, I sort of had no line of sight to ever be able to do something like that. So that was an unbelievable opportunity. And part of that was doing livestock touching at the University of Illinois. And I got a very different perspective around judging from that process, because it was more structured. And it's actually a credit based course at the university you do livestock judging. Or we can do you can do all judging a horse judging of their mates judging. And so there was so much more to it than than just evaluating livestock. How do you make a decision? How do you explain the decision you made? How do you defend the decisions you've made? How do you engage that met? How do you spend time traveling with other people and learn social skills and meet producers and a whole range of things which then flew from that? And I've done a lot of it over the years, and I enjoy it. One of the things I really enjoy about it now is the opportunity to evaluate livestock, that's great. But then also talk about the cattle and the people and the industry and something
Unknown Speaker 15:00
About the Sydney show, being able to talk about how fantastic the cattle are, but also the industry and the things that we're doing and, and be part of sharing that message. And more broadly. So like, what if you think back what is your earliest memory when you realize that you loved agriculture, and I'm guessing, especially cattle,
Unknown Speaker 15:22
I really don't know, I don't know that point in time. Like, I can't remember a point in time when I didn't. So lucky enough to always grow up on farms, mum and dad were first generation farmers. And, you know, the typical the first generation farmers of borrowing and not having critical mass and working off farm and all of those things. So you know, that, that working on the farm, but going to school, those sorts of all those things really resonate.
Unknown Speaker 15:51
And regardless of the challenge, I always remember loving it, and the farm and the livestock and, and those things were were a real critical part of my childhood. So even my earliest memories that I found a walker, as from when I was one or a bit less than one, I suppose. But even in those early school years, and those earliest memories are all very fond memories about cattle on the farm and sheep as well, but with livestock and being on a farm. So it's, it's been ingrained in me for a long time. But I don't know what the trigger was. I'm not sure what it was what changes someone yesterday, and they said, There's something about something about agriculture, if if you're born into it, it never leaves you. But you can also be like me, and there's plenty of others who have come into agriculture. And once you get a taste for it, it's incredible. And there's something that just sticks with you and kind of draws you back. Yeah, there really is. And I was actually thinking about the sort of things we might talk about. And when we think about agriculture, people often talk about what are the things that bring you joy, and,
Unknown Speaker 17:00
you know, a new calf from a heifer that you know, was born on the farm, and you know, who our mom was, and who uscire is, and dad's body have been interested in seeing what sort of progeny is going to be produced, what sort of project is going to produce, and you see that calf that gets up and runs around and enjoys life, at that sort of things, pretty exciting,
Unknown Speaker 17:26
that they're seeing the fruits of your labor, or the fruit of fear, your efforts, those sorts of things to, to see the
Unknown Speaker 17:37
the benefit or impact you have by making decisions to do things differently with land or pasture or ensure on the tail end of the cropping side. The, you know, you get to interact with nature elements and livestock and, and see a result out the other side can be heartbreaking, too. But the
Unknown Speaker 18:00
and maybe what it is, maybe it's kind of the career version of golf, you know, the, there's enough of none of the weekend hackers saying, you know, you get one good shot every six months, you keep playing forever, maybe maybe five years at the site, you know, we've got all these challenges, but interspersed are these incredible moments of joy. Where, you know, you see the benefit of what you've done or been involved with? Or are you just see the the amazement of nature and how that happens and works. I'm not I'm not sure how to whether there's a more sophisticated description to it. But it's it's very much a feeling and a connection, I think with agriculture, it's a really interesting question, what would you say, brings you joy in what you do now, that is a really interesting one, it's probably a bit odd for someone in my role and the type of roles that I've been in which are very, over many years, I've been very public and front facing the things that really bring me joy is the success of others. And whether it's family or friends or staff or the industry,
Unknown Speaker 19:04
you know, being involved in things that
Unknown Speaker 19:07
that create and deliver benefit to others. And whether that's just joy or pleasure, or whether it's material benefit, or whatever it might be that I really get a kick out of that and whether that's
Unknown Speaker 19:23
seeing something that memulai does an organization that you can see a knock on benefit to the organization and the industry having having someone talk about how fantastic it is that consumers have a commitment to our product, international markets because of the consistency and quality of it which has come from MSI, that I that's incredibly cool. That's the sort of stuff that I get really excited about from an industry point of view, but to see people develop people that have that you've worked with, or you've shared things with that are better for it, or that they do something that is you know,
Unknown Speaker 20:00
Have over and above what they might have been able to do before because of some interaction we might have had that, that I find really, really rewarding and
Unknown Speaker 20:11
doing things with agriculture. I find that
Unknown Speaker 20:15
very rewarding and I enjoy that it's
Unknown Speaker 20:19
it's hard to imagine a more relaxing or peaceful activity than wandering along behind cattle out in a paddock.
Unknown Speaker 20:27
I was gonna say taking them somewhere or not even having to take them somewhere, you know what, you know, that sort of thing is, is a wonderful thing to do.
Unknown Speaker 20:36
But also, I think sharing it with others as well. Then their family friends, your workmates.
Unknown Speaker 20:42
And an egg is one of those wonderful, wonderful things where the, the networks and connections we have in agriculture and, and sort of common purpose and understanding. I think it's really important. Absolutely. And I was gonna say just on that, that happy place of wandering behind stock. Dad's come to farming and agriculture later in life and he's definitely got just a little hobby block. I tell you I reckon he he divided these paddocks up to make them smaller just so you can sit behind the cattle more often while he moves. Absolutely. What a great plan and it's one of those really good examples right doesn't matter how you get there so so he's doing a fantastic job of arresting and putting grazing pressure on his paddocks that's the
Unknown Speaker 21:24
reason why he's doing this I can move the cattle but they're actually having a positive impact on the on the grass and soil as well. So what was it that took you away from working inside the farm get a couple of things. So the big shift initially was after went to the US the first time
Unknown Speaker 21:41
was period of time and livestock judging. And then also, I spent time with the meats program with the meats judging team as well. And New Year's is a bit of tough Yeah, that's right. Well, it was the start of that was the start of that program. So I traveled with the University of Illinois the judging team. And as part of that, I was just going to be a cattle farmer that was going to be my plan. And while I was having this like this meat grinder things cool either gonna go home be I'm gonna go home be a meat grinder. So came back to Australia, and I called one of my lifelong mentors, and still is. Greg Chappell, who was my ag teacher at Farah
Unknown Speaker 22:16
is now at Glen Anicet, Dalton Angus. And at the time, he was working in the industry, and I think he's working for us Moodle, or MLC at the time, Raymond was a chat. So now what I'm gonna do with McCree, I'm going to be a meat grinder. I said, Well, problem is we don't ever make writing system. It's like, well, let's set one up. Well, there's a few of us been working on that for quite a few years. It's like, what do you guys been doing? You know, youthful exuberance. And beauty and naivety? Absolutely, absolutely, you know, the the number of things I've done in my career that I look back. And like, If I only knew that that was the start of my involvement in the MSI and the
Unknown Speaker 22:54
type activities, and I suppose that was the first
Unknown Speaker 22:58
real sort of step to doing something that was going to help the industry because it very quickly went from, I'd like to be a meat grinder,
Unknown Speaker 23:08
which was probably if there hadn't been a meat grading system in Australia, that probably would have been a passing interest and would have gone back to being a farm. But that's what really got me on this path of Halloween, don't have a mate grading system, these guys do ever make grading system, I can see all the benefit of a mate grading system.
Unknown Speaker 23:25
So why don't we have that, you know, what, what could I do to actually help make that happen? And that's been probably the underlying
Unknown Speaker 23:35
theme of my career, you know, it's how I can actually help make something happen, which is better for the industry. So that was the route that was a real start. I'm interested. So like, was it literally just a conversation with Greg Chappell that led into that, like, cuz I think something like that. It's a brand new initiative into an industry, which is fairly traditional, but how do you as a young person, take that actual career step to get involved in something which is completely transformative? And there's probably quite a few conversations, which probably became quite annoying for taps on.
Unknown Speaker 24:10
But there was already work being done. And so rod Polkinghorne was already doing work with alpha with a lot feeders, and they were the lat feeders were absolutely the, the leaders in that whole process. And over, I want to say it's only a couple of conversations three, quite a few more than that. And, and eventually, chap said, you know, you need to make rod Polkinghorne and we end up having a call together, you know, how am I then got involved with the work that the chaps and rod and then John Webster, who was at the Research Corporation at the time was sort of overseeing and managing and the lat feeders were, were absolutely the sort of the horsepower supporting it from an industry point
Unknown Speaker 24:51
of view. And then I got involved as the person who actually knew a bit actually about migrating so
Unknown Speaker 24:59
so you
Unknown Speaker 25:00
attempts manage the industry engagement producer, supply type activities rod drove the standard science development piece, John drove the you know, the support and the supply and the funding support and the industry oversight from animasi point of view. And that was the meat grinder. And that was sort of the start of the core of how we went. And that was all initially all under the umbrella of the lock feeders. And that was, you get your dream job. What's it like now to see the evolution saw?
Unknown Speaker 25:33
I'm trying to think should now the name of the business completely fits on Australia.
Unknown Speaker 25:41
So seeing that evolution from like, how MSA has has evolved from individuals actually assessing it to now seeing the role of technology? I know you've got DEXA and other things, is that involved, but there's also i remember when i Kalin works for them Kelen daily?
Unknown Speaker 25:58
hochkar has measurement, the FAQ.
Unknown Speaker 26:03
We have what's it like to see that evolution? Honestly, quite a short time. Really? Yeah, I think it's fantastic. That's great. That's only it's it's only 25 years, right. But I mean, the material bit was done the first sort of 10 or 15.
Unknown Speaker 26:15
But to be in a position now where more than half of our catalog graded and those automated assessment systems like the MOQ probe, and others,
Unknown Speaker 26:24
the industry has been working on them for 20 or 30 years, and they start seeing them come to life is fantastic. I'm gonna say it was a year or two ago might have been two or three years ago, but it was well, I've been in this role.
Unknown Speaker 26:35
There was a very earnest and enthusiastic employee that works for us that
Unknown Speaker 26:44
I was just having a general chat with about some of the things we do. And they very enthusiastically gave me a rundown of this thing we do called Meet Standards Australia, and how important and impactful it has been on the industry, I got a real kick out of that, that somebody who was reasonably new in the organization, reasonably doing the industry, probably wasn't born, when we got started. Didn't have any idea that I had an association with meet standards Australia. But the good thing about that was that their enthusiasm was absolutely genuine. And so that he talked about what the sort of thing that gives you joy, you know, being involved in knowing that I was involved in something that is now just part of what the industry does. And the the way that's been executed over time. Now, there's been so many people involved in that, which is fantastic. But to now see that it's really cool. It's really cool. Can I ask me? And you can tell me, I'm silly for asking, like does does any ego or anything come into that? Where you think like, oh, man, I'm the CEO of the organization? Did you not read the first three lines of who you're working for? You can't win with any answer, right? If I say, of course, it's like, Oh, yes. But if I say no, not at all, but but genuinely doesn't know, and I love my job, I really enjoy my job. And then being managing director of the organization is important about to do the sort of things that that I do in the organization, being managing director is not the most important thing that actually do. So from a compliance point of view, it's very important from a structural point of view, it's very important and how we report and governance, all those things, it's very important. For me, the most important thing is, is being able to be in involved in an organization that's trying to make a difference for the industry. And, and how we make that difference is much, much more important than who gets credit for it. And if MLA is going to be as successful as we can be, just given the nature of the industry and the nature of humans, we're not going to get credit for a bunch of the stuff that we do. And that's actually not the point. Because our our role as a service organization, and it's very visible on all of those things, but, but our role is to actually make the industry better to do things that otherwise wouldn't have been done to do things that otherwise would have carried too much risk for individuals or organizations in the industry, to do to solve problems to drive things that will provide benefit to the industry where we're ultimately not going to be selling stuff. We're ultimately not trying to build
Unknown Speaker 29:27
shareholder value in MLA, the brand, we absolutely want MLA to be respected and be recognized and, and have a reputation around, you know, integrity and delivery and reliability, all of those things.
Unknown Speaker 29:42
But as far as the credit for those things that happen there, the industry recognizing that they're good for the industry and that they're being applied, and then being applied and used is much, much more important than necessarily the the recognition we might get
Unknown Speaker 30:00
So let's, let's talk a little bit more about the red meat industry. So you started in the role 2019, the same year that humans ag was founded. And one thing and and I think our conversation earlier, which was talking around that kind of the negativity, or the challenge of negativity in humans have actually started because I was pretty frustrated by the conversations, we're having an unedited come from getting an experience overseas in South Africa and seeing that, okay, actually, the way people are into integrate and interact with agriculture is actually people who are involved in producing, moving consuming, and it can be from people looking to do it from a prosperity lens, or people literally doing it from a survival lens. One of the conversations which kind of frustrated me was what I felt like was this mountain we're making out of a molehill around alternative proteins. Is it a legitimate threat to the red meat industry? No, I don't think it is. And it's probably a good example a bit of what we're talking about before. So we have this challenge in front of us. And, like you say, the mountain out of a molehill, this is going to be a disaster, it's going to end you've got commentary, because our industry is so connected to everybody. So while very few people actually have a cow, most people actually eat beef and lamb. So it's very easy to make a connection with our industry and where
Unknown Speaker 31:21
it's a, we're a core part of the diet and the fabric of Australian society, you look at the sentiment study of people's connection to red meat as a staple. So it's very easy to whip up a frenzy of conversation, we sort of same sort of thing with exotic animal diseases. And I think with these are these plant based proteins,
Unknown Speaker 31:43
that a bit of the unknown, and on one hand, you had
Unknown Speaker 31:48
quite
Unknown Speaker 31:49
unfairly and dishonesty in a lot of ways, you know, the way a lot of these new products are being promoted in denigrating the industry, dishonestly and unfairly. But they're also making claims about their own products, which weren't true as well. And that's quite confronting for us that if everybody believes that, and if these things come through true, then this is going to be a problem. So this is actually going to be a disaster. We're coming back to what we're saying before, we've, we've dealt with everything previously, that we shouldn't be naive, right? So we can't look at the data we've got on vegans and veggies, and there's seven or 8% in the population, which hasn't changed for 11 years, except two years ago, went to nine and last year went back to five. And so, but we don't be sitting here in five years time and saying I remember with our 5% in there now, whatever, you know, we shouldn't be naive about these challenges. But we got to find a way to to act
Unknown Speaker 32:40
in a positive way. And part of that is how do we get
Unknown Speaker 32:44
objective information.
Unknown Speaker 32:47
So there's a few things about the plant based proteins, I think, that sector has done themselves and the rest of us a massive, massive disservice in the way that they actually approached the promotion and delivery of those products by denigrating the red meat sector to try and build reputation for themselves. But more importantly, by telling porkies about their product, you know, so like making stuff off about the product making claims that it couldn't deliver on. And like we've seen every other time in history, consumers are smarter than that. And that consumers have worked that out. And I was at a business seminar earlier in the year and the other investment bankers, they're talking about these companies that they believe have actually destroyed the category. Now we need all the protein we can get, you know, we've got to find a way to feed a growing world population that's increasing affluence, and the need for protein is really quite significant. And we've all got about to work together, not unsimilar to beef and sheep and chicken producers, you know, we we need protein to feed the world. And I think they've done a massive, massive disservice. So absolutely mountain out of a molehill. But the other thing, I think that we, we didn't appreciate or we underestimated consumers commitment to, and we respect and
Unknown Speaker 34:15
the value they place on our products and what we do and how we do it. So all these companies are saying,
Unknown Speaker 34:23
our industries, bad for the environment, and it's
Unknown Speaker 34:26
bad for health and all of these things. That's not what the consumers believe, particularly in the developed world. The consumers have a very positive view about our product and what what we do, and we're going to lean into that and promote them. And I think where red meats really interesting and Scott, the facts and science behind it. This would be a real ethical or moral dilemma question. Those people that were working in that alternative protein space, incredible marketers and their ability to shape a narrative. Why haven't we seen the red meat industry poaching any
Unknown Speaker 35:00
Have them to come and do marketing in our industry. It's a very interesting dilemma, isn't it? Because, like, and it is because it's that dishonest marketing. But then it's that ability to convey and articulate a message which resonates with people in the first instance, is powerful. And maybe I'm bad or good example of this. And so self promotion is not our thing.
Unknown Speaker 35:23
As an industry, largely, that connection with the consumer and the view they have the positive view they have in our industry, a lot of that's directly as a result of our authenticity as an industry.
Unknown Speaker 35:39
And we are really cautious about telling our story, one of the challenges we we have at MLA in trying to share the message broader is we are trying to producers to tell the story, because they I mean, they absolutely the best storytellers and consumers just love hearing from love hearing from producers. But the majority of our producers have well, but I don't know all the information. And I wouldn't want to say that wouldn't be quite right. And
Unknown Speaker 36:09
until actually now be more, I'm not going to hop on social media and talk about the things we do, because I'm not exactly sure about what those details are. But being authentic and genuine. Is such a core part of what we do as an industry. There's a pretty big gap between that and the approach that was taken below by that sector.
Unknown Speaker 36:35
So the shorter version is it's the person out personality clashes, you know, a bridge too far. Yeah. So, but how do we learn from that? So what are the things that they did in that engagement
Unknown Speaker 36:48
process, putting aside the bit about making stuff up and denigrating our product, but
Unknown Speaker 36:54
no industry or the engagement that they were able to capture?
Unknown Speaker 36:59
How do you do that with an established product established industry where we have such a really a high level baseline and respect for our industry, anyone. And I think that authenticity piece flows really nicely. And because this is an you'll start to maybe pick out jazz, I spend a lot of time on my own, I spend a lot of time thinking and pondering. So
Unknown Speaker 37:18
as well. And I think this starts to we can chat about the carbon neutral goal of the industry and all of that. But so one thing I'm wondering, the mining industry, energy sectors, etc, they're all looking at ways to reduce their emissions.
Unknown Speaker 37:34
In turn, I guess our share of those emissions potentially could actually rise depending on the speed that these industries move at. But I think like, the thing that I always come back to one thing we don't talk about, as an industry, the black and white fact of the matter is that people need to eat, and that's people need to survive. And they eat with emotion and all the other reasons kind of behind it. Like, do we actually need to yes, we're humble and all of that, but is now the time for agriculture to actually step forward in true leadership in a global sense. I think it really is. And there's, and we're seeing more of those discussions happening. And I think more proactive engagement. In the last, how many years, four or five years, probably, we've seen better connections across some of the international organizations to share information, in particular, the pre competitive space, you know, where we're gonna go head to head with the US and Japan around grain fed beef, but
Unknown Speaker 38:34
things like sustainability, animal welfare, human nutrition,
Unknown Speaker 38:39
they're going to be just as important are just as important to us as food safety. We don't, we don't promote our product. On a food safety point of view, we don't say eat our product, because it's safe. And this might be because that that undermines the credibility of, of the category and things like sustainability, welfare, nutrition, there, there are going to be global showstoppers for us if we don't stay in front of those. So we are getting down that path. But there's certainly an opportunity for us to, to do more of that. And finding ways to do more of that and do it better, is certainly one of the the big opportunities from an industry point of view on a country point of view, how we better connect with those other areas. I think what you're describing about our emissions piece as a percentage of the overall inventory
Unknown Speaker 39:29
is a really interesting dilemma. And as an industry, I think it's been important for us to provide context
Unknown Speaker 39:37
of our contribution to the overall inventory, when we were such a large target and an easy target. Because everybody recognizes a cow, but there's only a very small percentage of people are actually impacted if something happens to the cows. Because largely they they just don't either are there for a job somewhere else but you put up a picture of a cow and they'll recognize it. And it's like, Ah, right. Okay, I combined the count. I don't have to worry about how much I draw
Unknown Speaker 40:00
of my car, or how much of a consumer I am or whether I work in the mining industry, whatever it might be. So creating that context was really important. But I think we are heading with that question whether you realize it or not is, is demonstrating our progress and our position and our credentials in isolation of what else might be going on is now more important than what it was. So demonstrating that perspective that we were only 20% of the investment now we're only hardware only 10% of the inventory, we've halved our contribution to the inventory.
Unknown Speaker 40:32
The next part of that messaging is we've actually halved our emissions.
Unknown Speaker 40:38
Whether it was 20 to 10, isn't the point, the total emissions, we had used to be this much, and now it's this much. And these are the ways that we've done that, which has been largely through
Unknown Speaker 40:50
increased productivity and production and managing our system better. It's not through things being forced on us or having to do things which are negatively impacting on our business, how we actually now tell our own story is going to be much, much more important as those other industries sort of work out how they're going to make progress themselves. Because like one of the other things that I often
Unknown Speaker 41:12
think about, like a we, we sometimes hear people painting that agriculture is going to be the solution to climate change. And I actually go well, like that's my personal kind of view is like all the better to undersell them, and over deliver them than the other way around. Yeah. Do you see us just being like, Yeah, is it as one dimensional as that? Or like, what's your view? And how do you actually take a position on this, it's not as one dimensional as that. But agriculture is absolutely part of the solution, because we, we manage such a large proportion of the landmass, and the landmass is such a big component of the contribution and the solution to the climate activity.
Unknown Speaker 41:58
So we are absolutely part of the solution. I think what we've got a precursor that is, we didn't create the problem.
Unknown Speaker 42:05
Agriculture did not actually create the climate challenge, whatever it is, you believe about the climate challenge, whether you just whether it's just the principle of it, or whether it's the actual piece, or whether it's global warming, or whatever it might be, agriculture did not create this problem,
Unknown Speaker 42:19
we are absolutely part of the solution. Because it will feed the world, people still gotta go be able to that in a sustainable way. And agriculture manages such a large proportion of the landmass. So many of the things that will have a positive impact on a long term sustainable basis to how we interact with the climate, will be in the agriculture space. And the good thing about it is that largely agriculture has been more proactive than any other industry. So part of the shift we need to absolutely see happening is that the recognition of the proactive stance that agriculture has taken in a way that interacts with the environment, and it being seen as part of the solution, not being seen as part of the problem. And whether that's things like ambitious and 30 goal, or whether it's demonstrating the way that people have been managing their biodiversity for decades, and now just has a label. But you can the demonstrations of things like biodiversity, better land use be increased vegetation, improve ground cover, balance of train, grass, whatever it might be all of the examples of those things that have been used to demonstrate what's possible, or what things might look like in the future, have all been done a long time. Before these things became topical. We didn't we didn't mock them up in the last couple of years, because you can't. So a big part of the messaging that we've now got to get in front of is, we didn't create the problem. Were absolutely part of the solution. And we have to be part of the solution because of the landmass, the amount of landmass that we manage. And we've got so many demonstrations as part of normal production systems, which show how we can manage these things better on a broader scale. And they're not new, how we actually package identify, label, promote those things, is all part of what we're working through at the moment. And look at so you all say you inherited a very ambitious goal of carbon neutrality by 2030. Like how is the industry tracking to that? So it's actually tracking pretty well. Now, I can already hear, you know, what do you mean?
Unknown Speaker 44:39
And yes, I inherited it, but that the CN 30 goal at stake in the ground that Richard hammered in, in 2017 with a great big hammer is the single most influential thing that has happened in this space. There's quite a bit of discussion going on at the moment about the appropriateness of a carbon neutrality goal rather than a call
Unknown Speaker 45:00
Have a neutrality goal.
Unknown Speaker 45:02
And there's a whole range of things we can talk, we can cover quickly on those things. But that's the single most important thing that's actually happened from industry for a few reasons. So one that got us focused. So it was really ambitious. But it got us focused. And then what gets forgotten a bit in that story. Richard said, we're going to be saying 30 by
Unknown Speaker 45:21
power neutral by 2030. And, and then off we went, it's like, well, hold on actually didn't. So what he said was,
Unknown Speaker 45:28
here's this report from CSIRO. And it says, with the right policy environment, and the right investment in research and development, we can be carbon neutral in 10 years, let's set a goal by 2030, then get cracking.
Unknown Speaker 45:40
So there's context around that position, which was really important, because then what we got, so then we spent a couple of years to work out what on earth does this mean? And how are we going to get going on it? And we got ourselves corralled, not just MLA, but the broader industry as well along a path to how we can demonstrate progress, how can we invest in things that are going to make progress? And how can we get further along that path? So that that stake in the ground,
Unknown Speaker 46:05
gave us focus? It gave us ambition? And it actually got us looking at what is the line of sight from here to there? What are the sorts of things that are going to help us get along that path?
Unknown Speaker 46:19
And without that,
Unknown Speaker 46:21
I think there, there would have been a lot less focus and direction, and absolutely less progress on understanding what the drivers were, and understanding what some of the solutions are, as well. And so the the key words, which, which really stood out to me was with the right policy environment and the right investment. Are we on track with that? Or is that? Yeah, I think we are. And there's been a really interesting report that
Unknown Speaker 46:46
it's been referred to as the CSIRO report, it's actually mean, my report that we commissioned, and CSIRO did it for us, which was a bit of a stocktake, of where we're up to. And,
Unknown Speaker 46:58
and there's a, there's a range of interesting views out of that report.
Unknown Speaker 47:03
But at a high level, what it says is that, from where we're at, at the moment, if we don't make any more material progress, we're not going to hit the target. So that's okay. 2017 was when we set the target, we're now in 2023, the first couple of years, working at what we do, we had a year of getting really underway. So we've had two or three or four years, we've been having an ad hoc out this, we've got seven to go. We know a lot more than what we knew before.
Unknown Speaker 47:31
I think it's a really good report that gives us some context around what the challenge is between now and 2030.
Unknown Speaker 47:37
And we'll learn a lot more along the way. So from where we were probably seven, eight, what we knew what we understood, to where we are now I think as an industry, we've made fantastic progress. And it's all been done in a proactive way.
Unknown Speaker 47:53
And we've now got seven years in front of us to say, right, is this still the right path that we're on? And what progress can we make, and we can have all of those conversations more broadly, from an industry point of view, but they were in great shape. And, and probably more importantly, what it's actually done is it's demonstrated intent. And from a, from a policy point of view from an engagement with our markets engagement with the government department.
Unknown Speaker 48:20
We know the industry is seen as being being proactive, because we're making investments and we're taking action in this space. But as much as anything, that we're we're onto it. And we have varying views we have we have the full range of views.
Unknown Speaker 48:38
But but we're on to it. And
Unknown Speaker 48:42
if we're just arguing about exactly where are we going to go on this journey and exactly how we're going to get there.
Unknown Speaker 48:49
They're pretty much puts us in front of every other industry. So I think we
Unknown Speaker 48:55
were work that out. We'll work it out. So something I have wondered, so looking in my writing, I've seen that. So lamb and shape is already climate neutral. So what like what is the difference? And is there one that I guess is yeah, the is more important or actually the stepping stone to the other? Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 49:18
So yes, is the short answer. But it's also the easy answer, because someone will hear me say yes to your question. What was he saying yesterday?
Unknown Speaker 49:27
One's a stepping stone to the other. I don't think one's more important than the other.
Unknown Speaker 49:33
So carbon neutrality, no net no net emissions from the production system. climate neutrality is not contributing any more to warming.
Unknown Speaker 49:45
So climate neutrality has
Unknown Speaker 49:49
a more direct connection to the benefit of the biogenic methane cycle. So methane is one of the biggest contributors to livestock back agricultural myths.
Unknown Speaker 50:00
And then we know that biogenic methane, so produced by ruminants, cycled through the system in a much shorter period of time 10 or 12 years, then methane produced from other sectors.
Unknown Speaker 50:11
And provided
Unknown Speaker 50:14
we're not producing any more methane or any more emissions this year than we were 10 or 12 years ago, because that's cycling out of the system, then we're not contributing to warming. Gotcha. So the amount of emissions that we have a staple, but we're still producing some emissions, but we know some of them are cycling out as well.
Unknown Speaker 50:34
And that so that, if you think about something like the Paris commitment, was, I'm going to limit the warming of the world to less than 1.5 degrees.
Unknown Speaker 50:43
Our contribution to that if we're climate neutral, is zero, because we're not contributing to warming, whereas carbon neutral, is saying we're either
Unknown Speaker 50:57
capturing or, or, or reducing the all emissions that have been produced in the production system is sort of the next step along along the way. So
Unknown Speaker 51:09
the climate neutrality measure is a fantastic measure of
Unknown Speaker 51:14
an industry being productive, and not adding any additional emissions to the system to what it has, has previously done. Whereas the, the carbon neutral position is not not putting any emissions at all into the system. They're being you know, captured or reduced or offset.
Unknown Speaker 51:38
So in the in the cabin size, this is a slightly unrelated, it involves an alcohol product, there's there's a beer, which was needing malt barley, and they were tracking malt barley quite a distance to get the product.
Unknown Speaker 51:51
Do you reckon like, the consumer is gonna be more annoyed by the carbon footprint or product or not having a product available? I think of that in that beer example, like, yeah, is the demand really coming from the consumers? Or would they be more annoyed? If they look on the shelf and get up? Maybe it's not there? I would say absolutely. More annoyed if the products not on the shelf? Yeah, absolutely. And
Unknown Speaker 52:15
at a much higher,
Unknown Speaker 52:18
more global level, you know, the, the interest in climate or carbon neutrality in the developing world, where
Unknown Speaker 52:29
they have, they don't have enough nutrition, to have their kids grow and develop as they should be.
Unknown Speaker 52:35
Their interest is certainly a lot less than ours. And that's a perspective we need to keep, you know, we're, we're in Australia, and we're in a very, very privileged society. It's a, there's, there's not many places in the world that I know of where you're as well off as what we are, we can choose to do whatever we want, like we have, and you're okay, you know, we've got the systems in place to support, anybody can make terrible decisions, on every turn a lot of different decisions every turn along the road in their life, and they'll be okay. So we can choose to do whatever we want.
Unknown Speaker 53:11
A lot of people don't have that choice. So we've got to be careful, we keep it in a bit of bit of perspective. And I think we
Unknown Speaker 53:19
we do get a little bit more emotive about some of these discussions. And it's really like some of our response to
Unknown Speaker 53:27
our industry response to the challenge or the, for the difficulties in front of us, and we can survive a blow them sometimes.
Unknown Speaker 53:36
And the discussion around the, around the climate, I think is one of those where the world's going to end that well. The only the only thing, the only thing that is actually consistent in this whole discussion around environment, climate, all of those things, is every single prediction of the world and he has been wrong. Like that's actually the only thing that's actually consistent. But it's the one that gets people's attention. Like someone tells you the world's going to win, like that gets your attention.
Unknown Speaker 54:03
pretty irresponsible, but gets your attention. So.
Unknown Speaker 54:08
And I think that's one of our challenges in a privileged developed society that to get somebody's attention, you've got to be pretty dramatic, saying to them, we'd like to make a two or 3%
Unknown Speaker 54:17
improvement in the overall carbon footprint of your consumer patterns, which means you might have to make this tweak with that tweak or put a timer on your air conditioner or something
Unknown Speaker 54:28
that's very hard message to sell, whereas the world's going to end, you know, we need to stop something that gets people's attention. And so trying to find that balance, and as an industry, you know, we've got to navigate through that environment where, you know, so much of the discussion is emotive
Unknown Speaker 54:45
and the commentary is pretty emotive.
Unknown Speaker 54:49
But we're part of the solution. So how do we actually manage that in a sensible, constructive way?
Unknown Speaker 54:56
So I've got got two questions I want to want to finish
Unknown Speaker 55:00
I think the first one probably comes back to where we started. What is it that gets you out of bed? And why is that you're still involved and passionate about Ozzie agriculture, and especially the red meat industry. How could you not be. So
Unknown Speaker 55:15
I've been incredibly lucky privileged over my career to see the progression of our industry. And some days, you know, some days, it's like, feels like you've been bashed up by everybody.
Unknown Speaker 55:29
But then I get the chance to talk to somebody about the shape of our industry now compared to the shape of our industry 25 years ago, when we're a commodity generic system with very little support or structure behind it. And now we have individual ID on farm quality assurance, eating quality systems, market information,
Unknown Speaker 55:51
preferential access to all the major markets except the EU around the world. So we sell a high quality, consistent, highly credentialed product to the most discerning discerning consumers around the world, who pay a premium for it. And as a result of that, our industry, prosperity and the prosperity of the people that are part of that has massively grown on the opportunity for everybody involved in it is significantly better. That didn't exist at the start of my career.
Unknown Speaker 56:17
And to know that a young person coming into the industry, the same way that I did, has a materially different set of prospects in front of them to what I had. Well, that's pretty exciting. And to apply to small part, and some of that is like, that's cool. Like, it's really good. And so.
Unknown Speaker 56:38
And I also firmly believe that
Unknown Speaker 56:43
we can tell this fantastic story about the journey we've been on for the last 25 or 30 years.
Unknown Speaker 56:50
But there's still so much more we can do. Because it's a lot of the way I'd think about these things. It's like, well, this is great. But imagine, this is fantastic. But imagine,
Unknown Speaker 57:02
with the success of some of our sectors and operators in their sectors, Apple, like they are awesome, but imagine if they were the average. And if they were then that much better than the others like, like imagine. And so how, how do we actually do that, that that's not many industries that are like that. There's not many industries where there's that sort of opportunity. And, and then to see,
Unknown Speaker 57:26
see the the impact that that can have on people that then benefit from those things? Whether that be
Unknown Speaker 57:33
able to work at someone like MLA or you see the commercial success out in the industry like that. That's pretty cool. And I think that all that ties in really with what I guess our philosophy is, with humans of agriculture, it's understanding, what's the role, and what does agriculture look like today, but how's it going to be better into the future? And I think that's the thing that will, will forever have a job, because we're always just, what's next how to? And to your point, it's yeah, how do you lift up that next echelon of people actually up so they become the new average? Or whatever it might be?
Unknown Speaker 58:02
One final question, you you get the chance to duck down the road here in Brisbane and chat to you 10 students at a Metropolitan School? What's your advice to them about considering a career in agriculture? It's a really interesting question, because it's very different to what it used to be, you know, you go back to when I was in high school,
Unknown Speaker 58:21
agriculture was a was a very conscious decision and pretty specific part under an ag High School. And there weren't that many
Unknown Speaker 58:32
people out of our group that ended up actually in ag, like, some of them went back and were farmers. But a bunch of them went out and did other things. Because they didn't take a specific egg path. The beautiful thing these days talking to about a year 10 students is you can actually do whatever it is that you're interested in, and chances are, there'll be a path for you in agriculture.
Unknown Speaker 58:53
And isn't that a wonderful thing that's happened in one generation were largely we were production driven. And that's back to being a commodity industry into their lives. Okay, you know, commodity industry, at the mercy of external factors to now being a highly sophisticated, connected Supply Chain system where if you feel any interest in science, or engineering or
Unknown Speaker 59:20
health, psychology, you know, there's a, there's a massive, great big, long list of things that you could be interested in, and the beauty of careers today that are so much more mobile than what they were. And the ability to, to apply those skills in agriculture is so so much greater than what it was. So the opportunity for anybody, regardless of what their training might be,
Unknown Speaker 59:48
to go into agriculture is is materially different what it was, so we got disconnected with an animal. So then we actually take him outside we show him a car for our lamb or you know, so that that livestock connection becomes really important.
Unknown Speaker 1:00:00
pacing, and you talk about the shadows if I can just to sort of tangent for one piece, you know, we, we often think about how we, how we need to, we need educate everybody. And it comes back to what we're saying about our producers telling their story, you know, well, I wouldn't I need to tell them everything, I don't understand everything. It's like now what they need to understand is that you're Bob, and you're a cattle producer. And you'll have your key hours and you do everything you possibly can to look after them. And that's why they should keep enjoying steaks, because you're a good guy. That's like, what I want to tell them all about that. It's like it's so so we want to we try and overdo it. But we've got to make this really simple connection. And I was watching it at the show a couple of years ago, a family I was just watching people come into our, into the MLA site, because we had the igloo, and we're educating them and doing surveys and everything, was watching this family come along. And I reckon if I wasn't standing where I was, and they weren't worth walking with, they weren't, we were never ever going to cross paths. So they, they were not from agriculture that didn't have anything to do with agriculture. But they've been diligently following the Green Path and stopping off all the spots. And they're going into our store next. And I thought this is going to be fascinating. But as they were going around the corner, they had, I think they had three or four kids with them, a couple of older teenagers, but one little following the pluck is about 10.
Unknown Speaker 1:01:12
And he looks up across the road, and sort of just adjacent to me and he goes sheep, and the whole family just leaves everything they were doing just gravitates across the road, and they spend a few minutes looking at the animals, and then was like chucking marbles on the concrete. They'll just gone right?
Unknown Speaker 1:01:30
I thought Okay, so here we are trying to educate them. But the thing that really got their attention was interactions with an animal. The other thing was that they were camels.
Unknown Speaker 1:01:41
So here we are trying to have a scientific conversation.
Unknown Speaker 1:01:45
And these guys got really excited because they saw a sheep, their sheep happen to be a camel. But that was a really positive connection that they have. So here we are trying to educate people with high tech science, what we should be saying is
Unknown Speaker 1:01:59
I'm Jason, I'm from the industry, these are cows going to pet my calf. Isn't that great? We're good guys. And we do everything we possibly can to make sure the meat you get
Unknown Speaker 1:02:08
is looked after in the best possible way. how good your steak my steaks, great, I think you're a good guy. Thanks, mate. But if he goes and gets his bag with dog, so, so how we find this, how we find these interactions? And that's a camel. That's exactly right. Exactly. Right. So So I think we've got a lot of opportunity
Unknown Speaker 1:02:25
to improve that engagement. But I think for those young kids, the number of the range of partners they have into the industry is so different to what it was a generation ago, and and us demonstrating that that's a good option, good opportunity, and
Unknown Speaker 1:02:44
do whatever it is that they're interested in. And we'll find a role for him and agriculture. Well, thank you for sharing that. And I think as you were saying that, like
Unknown Speaker 1:02:54
what we've chatted about at the beginning was literally before we started, Bruce Mac of any advice, be prepared,
Unknown Speaker 1:03:01
be comfortable and be yourself actually think we've got a little campaign it whereas literally it is just be yourself. Don't try and pretend that you're Jason strong, the managing director of Meat and Livestock Australia or you're a scientist with CSIRO, you're, whoever you are, at whatever point you are, that's what people want to know. That's what they want to connect with. And I think that's the really powerful thing. And it's going well, we don't need one person who's got all the answers, we've actually got 100 People who come from different parts of the supply chain from different backgrounds, different passions, and that's the story that is red meat or Aussie agriculture or whatever it might be. It really is. And it's that authenticity about
Unknown Speaker 1:03:38
I'm involved in agriculture, because I love it. And I believe in how fantastic it is and how fantastic it can be. That's why I do the things I do. And it goes for so many of us. And it's it is a great story. It's a thing that resonates with our consumers. And that's definitely the consistent thing. Well, Jason, thank you so much for taking the time. I know. You're busy man, but I really appreciate having a chat with us. Thanks. It's been great. Thank you. Cheers. Well, that's it for another episode from us here at humans of agriculture. We hope you're enjoying these podcasts. And well if you're not, let us know hit us up at Hello at humans of agriculture.com. Get in touch with any guest recommendations topics, or things you'd like us to talk and get curious about. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend. Right subscribe, review it, any feedback is absolutely awesome. And we really do welcome it. So look after yourselves. Stay safe. stay sane. We'll see you next time.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai