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Welcome to Birth, Baby!, your go-to podcast hosted by Ciarra Morgan and Samantha Kelly, seasoned birth doulas and childbirth educators from Austin, Texas. Join us as we navigate the intricate journey of pregnancy, childbirth, and postpartum care, offering invaluable insights and expert advice. Through candid interviews, personal anecdotes, and evidence-backed content, we aim to empower families with the knowledge they need to make informed decisions. Whether you're seeking guidance on prenatal care, birth planning, or navigating the early days with your newborn, we've got you covered. Tune in to Birth, Baby! and embark on your parenthood journey with confidence.
The information provided on this podcast is for general information purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment.
Always seek the advice of your qualified health provider with any questions you may have.
Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast.
Reliance on any information provided here is solely at your own risk.
Welcome, this is Birth, Baby!
Your hosts are Ciarra Morgan and Samantha Kelly.
Ciarra is a BirthDula, Hypnobirthing Educator, and Pediatric Sleep Consultant.
Samantha is a BirthDula, Childbirth Educator, and Lactation Counselor.
Join us as we guide you through your options for your pregnancy, birth, and postpartum journey.
Today, we're chatting with Amy Ferrara.
Amy is a faith-based speaker, Bible teacher and homeschooling mom.
She's a native Texan who spent nearly 20 years in Washington, DC, where she met and married her husband, Mark.
They have three kids ranging in ages four to 14, and Amy and her family moved to Austin in 2020, and they're thrilled to call the Hill Country home.
Amy has been on quite the health journey over the past decade, and she's deeply grateful to all the holistic health practitioners who partnered for her healing and recovery journey.
And we're excited for her to tell us today about how diastasis fits into that.
And we were connected through Dr.
Milo of BirthCo and Defeat Diastasis.
So we're so excited for you to be here today.
Thank you, Amy.
Thank you for the invitation.
I'm glad to be here.
Awesome.
So can you start us off by telling us a little bit about your kids and how your birth experiences with them were?
Yes, absolutely.
So I have three kids and there's quite the age span.
So 14, 12 and four.
My oldest is Bella.
She's almost 15 years old.
And when I was pregnant with her, it was a very standard medical birth.
It was at the hospital, used an epidural and I did her preeclampsia, so they induced me, but otherwise I had a vaginal birth and it all seemed to be fine.
And I never had any questions about that operating procedure.
After her delivery, my gallbladder started to malfunction.
And so I had to have my gallbladder removed pretty quickly.
And I also started to experience just extreme exhaustion.
And we now in hindsight realize I had adrenal fatigue and I was really, really struggling to recover.
But as I would go to the doctors and explain my exhaustion and issues with sleep, it was either dismissed by them or it was dismissed by me as either you're pregnant, you're nursing or you're exhausted as a mom.
Don't you love that when they're just like, oh, sorry, that's just normal for like, you just have to live with that.
You're like, no, I know some things wrong.
Yes, I remember thinking, how has the population survived if this is how it is for everyone?
I remember thinking like, am I just the weakest human being on the planet?
So yeah, it was just remarkably difficult.
And we also had quite a few miscarriages.
Bella was actually a twin.
We lost the twin early on.
And we'd been married for like a second as well.
So it was just, I don't even know how we made it through like those first few years, but somehow we did because I got pregnant with Isaac.
So you just move forward, you carry on.
Now you carry on.
And I was pregnant with him.
It was a different kind of pregnancy.
I remember with Bella, for example, I suddenly became a vegetarian.
I just couldn't stand meat or chicken or anything like that.
So food was a real problem.
I never knew what I was gonna eat in my first pregnancy.
But then with Isaac, I wanted all the meat that you could possibly get.
So it was an easier pregnancy in terms of the day to day.
And then the day that I gave birth to Isaac, I remember waking up and I suddenly was so hungry.
I mean, just like I could eat a horse.
In hindsight, I realized he had dropped and suddenly had all this space.
But at the time, I just thought I'm so hungry.
So we went to the Cheesecake Factory and I ate the biggest lunch.
And then at the Cheesecake Factory, it was almost like I took that last bite and then my water broke at the Cheesecake Factory, which is so embarrassing.
Amazing.
Yeah.
Wait, was it a clean up on aisle five or was like, oh guys, hey, my water broke?
It was a something just happened and I'm running to the bathroom and it looks like I peed my pants.
Like that's what it looks like.
Yes.
And it's that moment where you're looking through your purse and your diaper bag thinking, what do I have to fix this?
And all I could find were tampons.
And I was laughing because I thought, when's the last time I cleaned out this bag?
I mean, I'm nine months pregnant and I still have all these tampons in my bag.
So that was a pretty funny moment.
And when you realize there's no fixing this, like you are going to have to walk out like this.
Some people still call my son Cheesecake as his nickname since my water broke at the Cheesecake Factory.
So we call the doctor and of course they say, come in right away.
And for whatever reason, and much to my husband's dismay, I really wanted to take my time to go to the hospital.
I didn't want to get there too early.
I didn't want to get stuck in limbo.
So I went home, I took a bath, I changed my clothes.
I was so not in active labor that when we got to the hospital, my husband wanted to drop me off at the door and I was like, no, just park.
Like I can walk myself in.
That is how inactive my process was at that point.
So I even passed my doctor on the way in and she looked at me and she was like, okay, well I'll see you later.
I get up to the hospital room and it was as if my body pressed the go button and I was standing by the hospital bed.
I hadn't even gotten in the bed yet and labor started and we now realize hindsight that I went from two to 10 in 45 minutes.
It was so traumatic.
I was standing there and the pain that was ripping through my body, particularly in the back, I was having back labor.
I was gripping the hospital bed arms so much just to get through every contraction.
And because I was doing a standard medical birth, my eye, the price for my eyes was epidural.
So every nurse that just kept coming in, I kept saying I need an epidural, I need an epidural, I need an epidural because I just thought, oh my gosh, if the pain is already this intense, how am I going to get through?
So you didn't know you were almost there.
You just thought, oh my gosh, this is starting hard and fast.
And I probably have a long way to go.
Exactly.
And I so wish someone would have said, you're probably really close by now, but no one thought to say that.
And so everything is in motion to try to get me this, I'm going to call it a stupid epidural because it was just the worst thing.
So the nurse starts doing this strange dance where she's kind of avoiding me to the point where my mom chased her down the hallway and said, what can I help you to get this epidural for my daughter?
And that's when the nurse confessed that she needed me to absorb all the IV liquid first before they could give me the epidural.
But because I was gripping so intensely through all the contractions, it was blocking all the IV, basically.
And so nothing was getting in, and so she-
And for people listening, that does happen.
Like when we're with someone in a labor and they move their arm just so, or like they put for people watching on YouTube can see what I'm doing, but like they have their hand flexed and bent and you know, something's there.
It does, it blocks the IV from having things go in.
So if you look up at the little IV thing, it's not dripping like it's supposed to.
And that's a good way to tell.
But yeah, you didn't realize that.
So then you're not getting that bag in and then you can't get your epidural.
Yes.
And I kept thinking, is anyone listening to me?
Like what's the problem?
What's the holdup here?
So eventually the nurse, even though I have this IV is really not going into me at all because the things are so intense and my arms are just taking a lot of the force of the contraction.
She eventually went and got the anesthesiologist and he comes in and I'm sure he was just trying to do his job well, but he kept scolding me, like stop moving.
It was clear that I was the problem in this situation.
And so he's yelling at the nurse to have me stay still.
And meanwhile, my body is just convulsing.
We now realize I was in full on transition and they're making me sit and stay still and they're yelling at me for moving.
And I do get this epidural and I'm not kidding.
He finally, he puts it in my back and then my doctor walks in to the hospital room.
She is across the room, like in the doorway.
And I hear her say, right, as the anesthesiologist finishes, she says, when a woman's face looks like that, she is at 10 and she is ready to push.
She just looks at my face.
And so this explains why, you know, the epidural, it was so hard to get the epidural.
And so they immediately put me on my back and kind of hold me down, because now I'm tethered to the hospital bed and to the epidural.
And they're telling me to push, but the position is magnifying the pain.
And I'm screaming, I'm asking for help, and there's all this chaos.
And of course other nurses are rushing in and they're all smiling at me and saying, just push, you're doing great.
Like no one's listening.
And I'm looking at their faces and I'm so confused.
I'm thinking, are we in alternate realities?
Like I need to stand up.
Like this is actually making the pain worse.
The contractions are fierce.
I hear the nurses even ask, did the epidural even get turned on?
You know, the epidural is really what everything's being centered around, but it's making everything so much worse.
So things are so bad.
And I quickly realized that no one is listening to me.
No one is understanding the reality of my situation.
And my pain was so severe.
I remember thinking, I didn't know that you could have this much pain and survive.
I didn't know that you could stay conscious with this level of pain.
And so I was in complete, I fit, my body was in complete life and death mode.
Yeah, I was in fight or flight.
And that's probably why you were feeling the amount of pain that you were is because you felt not understood.
You didn't feel like you had people that were really supporting what you were needing around you.
And you didn't even feel like going to the hospital yet when you went.
So you entered in fight or flight.
So some people that shuts down their labor for you, it was able to give you adrenaline to power through, but yeah, the intensity and the pain can be so much more severe if you're feeling that way.
Yes, absolutely.
And now I realize, so I have a history of sexual abuse.
I now realize that was also coming into play and I was being very triggered.
But of course at the time, I did not have an ability to comprehend all the things that were happening.
So, and also the way they were holding me down, I know they were just doing their jobs, but it was just the most traumatic situation.
And they're all smiling, pretending like this is such a glorious, beautiful moment when to me, it was absolutely not.
And so in that moment, I realized I made a very strategic decision and my brain told my body, the only way out is to get this baby out.
The only way to stop this pain is to get this baby out.
So I decided to push, and even though I had the epidural, it was not working at this point.
And so I decided that I was going to push the baby out, even if it was to my own detriment.
And I remember feeling my body rip apart.
I remember pushing out parts that were not supposed to be pushed out because that was the amount of trauma that I was in.
And so Isaac comes out and he has such a fire truck personality anyway.
So his birth was pretty on branch for him.
And they hand me Isaac and everyone's like, oh, isn't this so wonderful?
And we have pictures of me crying, but it wasn't the, oh, what a beautiful baby.
I'm so happy to see you moment.
These were tears of like after a car accident.
It was just tears of, I cannot believe this just happened.
I can't believe everyone's pretending this was amazing.
And I'm laying there on the bed.
I'm completely broken and my doctor comes and she starts stitching me up.
And I could feel every needle, every thread, every tug of it.
And because my body was so broken, I wasn't even moving at that point.
I was just broken.
And the doctor later said-
Sorry, this is killing me for you.
I know, like this is great reason for what you do because-
I know, like my doula heart is on fire right now, like of all the things we could have done.
Yes, and spoiler alert, my third baby, I had a doula and a midwife, and we did not repeat this car wreck situation.
But later when I told my doctor that I could feel every single stitch, and she looked at me and she said, oh, I assumed the epidural was working.
She said, because normally a woman, like they'd kind of be hopping around, you know, feeling the needle.
And I said to her, well, that amount of pain was so minimal compared to moments earlier, that I was able to just lay there and endure it because I was so broken and I didn't have anything left to say or to do.
Like I was just so physically broken.
And they had assumed that no one even turned on me at the epidural, but then as I was holding my son, I felt my feet go a little numb and realized it was now working, which made me so mad because we still had to pay for the epidural.
I still had to recover from the epidural.
I was so mad.
I felt like modern medicine had failed me.
And when I was in recovery, they were offering me pain meds.
And I'm so mad at modern medicine.
I just was like, no.
And finally, I think I took an Advil or something, but I was just like, you failed me, you failed me, you all failed me.
And it was just a really rough postpartum recovery.
And that led to a real difficult recovery.
And then it just took a while to maintain any sense of health and joy and life and all the things that it should be with birth and postpartum.
That's so difficult.
I'm so sorry that you had to go through that.
I think people think of those fast births and sometimes it really is awesome, but sometimes it's hard and it is traumatic because things are happening so fast.
Just the flip of a switch where you have to come to grips with what just happened.
And especially when things don't go according to plan, that it's so much.
We had on the podcast early on Amanda's birth story, she told her precipitous birth story and it was similar in a lot of ways and that she had planned to have that epidural and didn't get that epidural and it was a very fast labor, but she had some differences in the support that was there for her.
And I think that made a big difference.
As I'm listening to your story, I'm like, oh my God, I wish that you had that team with you to be able to walk through that with you because it is so hard.
Or even a nurse that had a clue.
Yes.
A nurse that could figure out like, oh, I've seen this a million times and when this happens, kind of like your doctor did, that would have been nice.
But it is amazing to me that you're able to tell this story with light and levity in your voice.
And it shows how much work you've done to get where you are because many people tell these stories and they're still emotional from it.
And I know it was 12 years ago now.
I think you said you was 12.
But still that stuff can stick with you if you don't work through it.
And the fact that you were able to go and kind of have a redemptive birth after that is awesome.
So do you want to tell us a little bit about that?
Yes.
Yes, and thank you for saying that.
I've done trauma therapy on this.
I've done counseling.
And I also was thinking through, can I tell Isaac's birth story?
So I kind of pre-told it to myself so that it didn't come out with too many tears.
Yes, so after Isaac's birth, which really began the down spiral of my health, by now, my adrenals were just totally crashing.
And we also had a house fire in the midst of all of this.
My children were one in three at the time, and I was home alone with them, and I accidentally created a backdraft at the center of the blaze, trying to get a fire extinguisher.
And we ended up running out of a burning home type of situation.
This was in Washington, DC.
And it's such a God story in that when I opened the door to the garage to get the fire extinguisher, forgetting that the door to the garage, even though it was at the center of my home, the door to the garage is an exterior door.
It's a fire door.
So if it's doing its job, it's not gonna be hot on your side.
And it was doing its job until I opened the door and I provided all this oxygen.
And I absolutely should have been engulfed in flames.
The firemen say, it's an act of God.
No one can explain how on earth I walked away without a single burn to my skin or to my hair.
I was able to slam the door.
Isaac was in his crib directly above the fire.
Bella had, she was the first one to discover the fire.
And so she had escaped her dollhouse to play, to mentally escape what she had just experienced.
And so I was able to shut the door.
I heard a voice in my head that shouted, slam the door, get the kids, get out.
Slam the door, get the kids, get out.
So I did, I ran upstairs to get Isaac.
I had hit, he was in a little sleep sack with a bottle.
It was snowing outside.
We lived in Washington, DC.
So he was just in barely any clothes.
Bella was more dressed.
I was in workout clothes with like one shoe on.
And we ended up opening up the door and these two men I'd never seen before are racing across the cul-de-sac to get to us.
And they're shouting, your house is exploding.
You need to get out.
And literally God stood between me and the flames that day and spared my life, which is great.
However.
How powerful, yeah.
Yes, and I'm now a public speaker and I get to share the depths of that story a lot because it's just amazing.
It's such an amazing God story.
But in terms of this story, that set me up for such an adrenal crash.
I had enough in the tank to get to literally rescue us to get out of the house, but there was nothing left after that.
And we kept going to doctors.
I kept getting misdiagnosed.
Now that we understand, I was at the point of adrenal crash.
Now functional medicine doctors say, we don't even know how you didn't have a stroke now that we're kind of putting all the pieces together.
So it was a very long, long road to recovery.
And a lot of different people were involved in that.
But the body does want to heal.
You know, that is, it's super power.
And so-
Yeah, and also that you had, that you were even able to find the team that could help you.
And with the adrenal stuff, it's like your tank was literally empty.
You had nothing left to give.
And you're still, you know, at people's feet begging, help me.
Like, I don't know what's wrong with me, but I know something's wrong with me.
Please help me.
And finding those people can be really hard sometimes.
Yes, and I was in no position to do that myself.
It was actually my husband who saw the reality of what we were dealing with and just how sick I was.
And he actually quit his job and decided to...
He's an IT executive.
He quit his job and became my full-time caregiver.
And people ask him now, what made you do it?
What made you walk away from your career to put everything into your wife?
And he said, I knew that we were on the brink of never recovering, that even if she survived, she was never gonna be the same.
And he said, so I made a strategic decision to put everything that we had into the hopes of recovery.
And so what that meant was he needed to find the right doctors who even knew, who believed that adrenal fatigue was a real thing, who understood trauma and PTSD and how that all works together.
We also had to throw out everything that we were eating and resource and change everything that we were putting on our bodies, in our bodies, how I was sleeping, when I was sleeping.
And he did that for nine months to give me a chance to recover.
And the body did eventually start to recover.
It was a lot of work on everyone's part, but I recovered so much that on our 10th wedding anniversary, I was now 37 years old and Mark and I looked at each other and I still wasn't 100%, but I was so much better than I used to be.
And we were talking and we said, are we done having kids?
Because when I was so sick, especially after the house fire, the doctors had said, it's a really good thing.
Y'all don't want any more children because you are barely alive.
Do not try to have another baby at this point.
So it was a significant moment when we even considered if we could have another baby.
So I went to my doctor, my functional medicine doctor, and asked her, I said, do you think, excuse me, do you think I could have another baby?
And she put her clipboard down and she leaned forward and she said, do it.
She said, do not delay.
She said, I do think you could have another baby.
She said, my biggest concern is your recovery.
She says, you are going to need to build in so much more support than you think you would need normally because your recovery is going to be so much harder.
But yes, you should do this.
And, but I also knew since I'd done a whole bunch of work since Isaac's birth in all kinds of recovery, I knew that I would need to do the birth very differently.
I also realized that I had significantly injured my pelvis during Isaac's birth.
So I knew going in that I was going to need to have an all natural birth where I could feel my pushing with Josie.
And that way I didn't over push and re-injure the original injury.
So it looked very different being pregnant eight years later.
Everything was different by then.
In fact, like Stitch Fix now had maternity clothes subscriptions and all the stuff was different.
There were all these online natural childbirth classes.
I mean, it was a whole new world eight years later.
I have a seven and a half year age gap between my kids.
And I kept joking.
I'm a mom brand new again.
Like the things I was allowed to use seven and a half years ago, now they're recalled.
I can't use them.
They have all these new products.
I don't know what they are.
So not only were you trying to get a different birth experience, but you're like, wow, this parenting experience is going to be different too.
Yes.
And all of our original baby stuff burned in the fire.
So it was interesting.
I'd be in the doctor's offices waiting for my midwife appointment.
And because I was alone, because my kids were older, people would often ask, are you a first time mom?
And I think, oh, you're so cute.
I'm almost 38 years old.
And no, I'm not a first time mom, but I kind of feel like it because this is all just so new.
And I was having brand new experiences.
And I ended up having the healthiest pregnancy.
I had both a doula and a midwife, and it was such a wonderful experience.
And for me, they were really surprised at how long I went in my pregnancy.
I'm super tight.
That was always my issue with my pelvis, so super tight.
And so I was dilated at four or five for like four days.
Like I still went for a walk.
I drove my husband crazy.
I was like, I'm gonna go for a walk without a phone.
And my husband was like, you are not, you are not doing this.
And you were trying to put him in the hospital for my heart attack.
Yeah, I'm like, fine.
I'm not in active labor.
I just, my body would really would not go into active labor until my mind was like, we can now go into active labor.
But it was, it was amazing.
I had worship music on during my birth and my doula.
She was looking at my face.
You know, it wasn't all about the baby.
It was so healing.
And she was right there with me.
Someone was there for me.
And then she was able to instruct my husband of like, massage this part of her body.
Don't touch that part of her body.
And even my oldest Bella, she was actually in the room for the whole birth, which was really special.
And Josie came out and I had an amazing postpartum recovery.
And because my hormones were so healed by that point, I was able to experience the highs of postpartum hormones.
My husband discovered really quickly that anytime I would breastfeed, it was like this shot of happiness, like through my mind and my body.
And so it became a joke.
If ever we were arguing about something, he would just hand me the baby, like here, nurse your child.
That's hilarious.
That's something my husband would do.
I can tell.
I love it.
And I was like, oh, is this how it's supposed to work?
Like, here's your medicine.
Yes.
It was unbelievable.
And I had thought that I just wasn't a baby person, that I didn't enjoy having babies.
But with Josie, I was able to see, oh, I actually can be a baby person when things are working as they're supposed to.
And you're not just trying to stay alive.
This can actually be a wonderful experience.
So now when people see my kids and they see this big age gap, I'm like, wow, that's a really big age gap.
But I just kind of nod and I'm like, there's a lot of life lived in those eight years.
And it's there for a reason.
Isn't it kind of funny how people think they can comment about that kind of stuff?
I know.
It's weird.
It's just weird.
So like, what if you were like, well, I was in a coma for four years.
Like, you know, you could have some like outlandish crazy story.
I always joke that a piece of my puzzle was missing cause I had gotten a divorce.
And then I couldn't have a baby until we had another piece of the puzzle, right?
And so we have a seven and a half year age gap, but everyone just thinks my daughter is my husband's cause she looks a lot like him and looks like her little brother.
But it is kind of weird.
You're like, you saying that makes me feel like I have to explain the age gap, but I don't really want to cause I promise you don't have time.
Right.
Yes.
I remember meeting someone the very first time I had two kids at the time and she said, are you going to have more?
And I started listing up how many miscarriages I'd had.
And she just kind of realized, oh, I shouldn't have asked that question.
I shouldn't have made those assumptions, you know?
And I was like, like, it's not for lack of trying, but thanks for asking, you know?
Or thanks for like commenting.
Yeah.
So when you, when did you realize in all of this that you were even having pelvic floor or core issues?
Cause I did hear you say, you knew you had done some damage to your pelvis with number two.
How did that kind of work and play out in a timeline?
I really wish it would have been obvious.
That would have been really nice.
But for me, the first symptom I had was after Isaac's birth, my foot was in such pain to the point where I was limping.
And again, I'm thinking this is a foot problem.
So I go to the foot doctor and start going through foot PT.
I get the orthotics.
They diagnosed me with plantar fasciitis and their standard practice is to inject synthetic cortisol into your foot.
Never asking about hormones or the fact that we just, I'm in a difficult season.
So I got the max.
And by the way, when you get the injection, you do feel fantastic.
So you really do want to come back and get the rest.
Not realizing how dangerous this was for my overall system.
So I got the maximum number of synthetic cortisol injections.
And in fact, the reason why I was in a boot on the day of my house fire is because I just had the third injection, which set me up for such an adrenal crash, because now I was about to have a real life and death situation where I needed cortisol.
Now realizing in hindsight, I'd had adrenal fatigue for an extremely long time.
My body is now full of synthetic cortisol.
And so the adrenals were like, oh, thank goodness.
I don't have to work so hard.
So it set me up for just such a significant crash.
I have to, I'm so sorry, I have to interrupt you.
Samantha, does this not sound like the pitocin, oxytocin conversation that we have all the time?
It does.
And they're like, oh, my body doesn't have to make the oxytocin because our receptors are already full of pitocin.
Yeah, we have so much learning to do about the body and hormones.
We think we're fixing something, but really what we're adding might just be causing another issue.
Yes, and for me, I really just kept thinking it was a foot problem.
So as I'm addressing the foot problem, I started to hear for the very first time about diastasis recti, or DR, from the tummy team.
This was 10 years ago.
And so the tummy team was brand new to me and it was Kelly Dean.
And she has a practice, I believe it's up in Oregon, in the Washington area, in the Midwest Pacific.
And so many people were hopping on flights to fly, to come see her in person that she discovered she really could serve more people with more of an online presence.
So she was starting to offer online classes and online programs and how to check for your own DR.
So I was doing that in parallel and realizing that I did have a DR.
It may have been from pregnancy, but it most certainly was exasperated by my gall letter surgery through my belly button.
So I had done the tummy team protocol and that was really helpful in showing me how much of my own daily postures were magnifying the problem, that how much I was slumping, all the childcare, rearing your baby postures, even the shoes I was wearing.
So I was on that journey, but I had not connected it to the pelvis at all.
So as I'm still going to PT for my foot, we just kept hitting a wall with my foot, still having issues with my foot.
This was a different physical therapy practice than the one who pumped me full of cortisol.
And one day she started working up my leg and she said, your calf is so tight.
And she started to make the connection.
She said, even if your foot is trying to heal, it's never gonna make it past this calf.
And so she started working up the leg and then finally she kind of in a whispered voice said, I think this might have something to do with your pelvis.
And I looked at her and I knew, like I knew she was right.
It was just this big light bulb moment of, oh, the foot is a symptom.
It's not the problem.
So as I'm still working with the tummy team and also doing some one-on-one online sessions with Kelly Dean, she was also finding so many clients with DR also had pelvic issues.
And so she said, we are coming out with a floor of your core program for the pelvis.
So just hang on.
And sure enough, I just hung on.
And then I started doing the pelvic floor programs and everything started to get a little bit better.
I started realizing how much of my life and behavior and posture and shoes or wearing compressing clothing like Spanx and things like that.
We started unpeeling a lot of the layers of the onion of the bigger problem, but I still was never quote, healed.
In fact, I had quite the love hate relationship with testimonials because I would read all this testimonials of I took the Tommy Teen program, one program, six weeks and I am amazing.
And I kept thinking, well, I must be doing it wrong because I've done it three times and I've done all the programs.
And I would meet with Kelly and she just kept saying, this is a long journey for you.
You've got very complex situation.
Also, I couldn't see her in person.
So she couldn't touch my body and physically see what was happening.
But she just kept assuring me of all of these things are like tools in your toolbox.
It is just, it is nothing is wasted.
Just keep going.
Of course, I didn't want to hear that.
I just wanted to be better.
But that was the beginning of a 10 year journey of trying to fix what was broken.
That is, it sounds like you went through quite a journey.
Through all of that, as you're kind of like working through all of these different programs, can you share a little bit about like what you tried and what you found to be helpful?
Sure.
The online programs were really helpful in that they were accessible.
So when I had little kids and it was hard to get into an appointment, the online programs were helpful in giving you, if you had 30 minutes to do this routine, you could just pop in and do that.
But the programs kept saying, sometimes you just need to see someone in person.
But finding an in-person pelvic floor specialist can be tricky.
You're not really sure who to ask and who's a safe person to ask those things to.
Fortunately, when I was in DC, the physical therapist who started working at my leg, she also in that was for tone said, we have another office.
And typically in your PT offices, it's one big open gym looking area, right?
And so she's just kind of talking to you on the side.
Filling at like the 70 year old man in there getting his knee worked on.
And then you're over there like whispering about pelvises.
Exactly.
You know, and you're talking about your sexual childhood trauma and how that may be impacted.
And you know, it's just kind of a, you have to feel safe, you know, in the environment.
And she whispered, we have another office and they have a room with a door.
And we do have a pelvic floor physical therapist who does physical like manipulations.
And so at that point, I was willing to try anything.
You know, most people, they say at that point like, oh, I don't know.
I was just like, where is she?
How do I find her?
I just, I was willing to do anything.
So I started going to this other office and she was the very first therapist I'd ever worked with in person.
And she was fantastic.
She helped me to realize that a partial rectal prolapse.
She also understood the sexual trauma relationship to it.
And that, yes, this had to do with Isaac's birth, but it wasn't just the birth.
It was just very complicated.
And she helped me to understand that this was not an issue of weakness.
It was an issue of tightness.
Because so many, in my experience, so many of these online programs are great if you were just weak.
But I was not weak.
I was tight.
And so sometimes doing these programs is actually making it worse.
But I was in a catch-22.
I couldn't stop trying to fix the problem, but I was just overworking the same type muscles all the time.
And no one could seem to help me get to the muscles that needed to be worked on and loosen the ones that were tight.
So it was just this tenuous situation.
I also did physical trauma therapy on memories that are stored in the pelvis.
Some of it I did with the tummy team.
They have a whole protocol on infertility and miscarriages and loss that you do to release things from a trauma therapy type session that you can do at home.
But then I've also done EMDR.
I have done Splunkna, which is like muscle testing in your body telling you where it has something stored and how it needs to be released.
Things I never thought I would do, but when you're so desperate for healing and you tried everything else, you're just thinking, I'll try it.
Let's see if it works.
And it did, everything was working, but it wasn't this one moment of, oh, boom, you're better.
So to speed up to the final pieces that helped me, so we moved to Austin in 2020 during COVID.
And when I was here, I saw online, someone was asking for a chiropractor referral.
And I saw, it was called Birth, Baby, Body at the time, now it's BirthCo, was recommended as a chiropractor.
And I had started doing chiropractic work when I was pregnant with Josie.
And I'm also hypermobile.
And so in the past-
Yeah, it's so fun.
Like, wow.
People think that sounds real cool until you really hurt yourself because you accidentally went too far.
Yes, or you're super tight because your body's trying to stabilize.
Oh, it's just so complicated.
So in the past, I had not gone to chiropractors that I'd been told that if you're super hypermobile, you shouldn't do chiropractic care.
However, I started seeing a chiropractor when I was pregnant with Josie and discovered it was really helpful just for the pelvis alignment.
Aha.
So when I was in Austin and Birth, Baby, Body, now BirthCo was recommended for chiropractic care, I went there for myself and then also now for my three children.
And then while I was there, of course, discovered they had the Defeat Diastasis program.
I did not think that I needed a quote, Defeat Diastasis program because technically my diastasis was closed to the point that is considered healed.
It was never very wide.
It was just very deep.
But Dr.
Meelo didn't allow that to be acceptable.
She was like, just because you can technically be considered healed, doesn't mean that you don't still need work.
So at her office, you feel so safe there, I think because they work so much with midwives and doulas, and even some midwives and doulas work there.
And so it's a very different experience.
This is not the physical therapy office that I was working with in DC, because there, when I was seeing my pelvic floor specialist, she was great.
But then she releases you to go work with these men out on the floor who are putting bands around your legs and just telling you to do like side steps, you know, up and down the aisle.
And it's a gym environment where you're motivated to push hard, do better.
And I like that environment, but no one is sitting there watching your posture and saying, wait a minute, like you're just undoing the work that we did behind the closed door.
It's two different environments.
So at BirthCo with Dr.
Meelo, it's much more of a singular environment.
So I did sign up for the Defeat Diastasis program.
And of course they come in six, eight or 12 week sessions.
And I think I signed up for like a six week session, not knowing I would be doing this for two years.
I was like the one client who just kept needing more and more and more, feeling like I would never graduate.
But her program was different, even though I knew all of the terms, I knew all the things that we were doing, and I'd probably done it all myself.
But now I had eyeballs looking at me, looking at my face, looking at my breath.
They were saying, wait, you're holding your breath.
The other thing that they had that was new for me is they have this machine that they attach you to, and it can go anywhere.
The Neux, thank you.
And they would put that on my tummy.
And what was so helpful about that for me was I was so good at working the outer muscles, but I was completely disconnected from my internal, innermost muscles.
Both, I just disconnected from them for trauma, for survival, for body self-hatred that I need to work through, just all the things.
And the machine was able to reach through those and say, hello, I need you to work.
And then because it was also in an office with chiropractors, I would have a session and then I would neatly go get an adjustment.
And then there was this immediate feedback of your hips are out of alignment, or what's going on with your hip, or why aren't your glutes firing?
And we were able to discover like my glutes, I just couldn't get them to fire.
Like my PT would say, turn on your glutes.
And I would literally have to press my bottom and be like, is this on?
Like, is this working?
Because I had done so much work to just bypass.
The body was like, fine, let's just, you know, I'm too tired trying to get that to work.
So I was in a really stuck posture, right?
And of course I'm hypermobile and things are too tight or too loose or too this.
So I had also done another online program called Tighten Your Tinkler, which-
Can't hold, no, you can't just go by that.
Tighten Your Tinkler?
Tighten Your Tinkler, they are in Louisiana.
I just died right now, I'm sorry, this podcast over.
Yeah, it's a-
Awesome.
Tighten Your Tinkler, yeah, if I ever have to write it down, I just do like the acronym, you know?
So for Tighten Your Tinkler.
But what they're good at is, yeah, what they're good at is they tell you, if you're out of alignment, there's no amount of home PT you can do.
You have to go get an alignment.
So they are really good at pushing you back to the chiropractor.
And then the other thing I have taken from them is there's a daily PT that they encourage you to do daily before you do any kind of physical exercise.
So I've kind of taken bits and pieces from everyone, but back to BirthCo.
So I'm now working, I'm tethered to this machine.
They're hour long sessions, so they're quite long.
And I was working with Michaela, who is also a doula.
And I think that was really the secret sauce, because she could tell when I didn't feel safe.
I'm gonna get a little emotional saying that.
I had never connected the importance of, if I don't feel safe doing a movement, even if it's quote, the healing movement, my body is not going to relax enough to do what I'm asking it to do.
I'm gonna stay in that stuck PTSD traumatic state.
And so Michaela was very good at saying, wait, your legs are freaking out right now.
Let's put a band on you so that you have some boundaries here or, you know, I don't think that's the right move for you.
Let's switch it up.
Let's switch to something else.
And it was a much slower road to recovery, but Michaela and Dr.
Milo would work in tandem to figure out what was working for me and what was not.
My first session was with both of them.
It was at 7 a.m.
in the morning.
So I had to leave my house at 6.30.
It was the only time they had available.
And of course I'm desperate.
You know, I'm always so desperate.
If this will work, I'll try it.
And I thought, ooh, who would go at 7 a.m.?
That is nuts.
But it turned out to be for me the recipe for success because I could get out of my house before my children were awake.
Nothing could possibly prevent me from going unless my car battery was dead, which it never was.
And so I could always get there and back.
And it became such an important part of my success story that Makayla started coming early just to meet me at 7 a.m.
because that was the way it was working.
My first session was really hard with them.
And then when I went home, my body freaked out like it normally does.
And what happened is parts of my neck and parts of my back started locking up and I thought, oh, here we go again.
I'm, this isn't working for me.
I'm too different, I'm too broken.
These are programs that work for every other woman.
And yet here we are again, it's not working for me.
And I was supposed to go back like two days later.
And so I had to email them and say, I don't think I can come in.
I start explaining my symptoms.
And instead they said, no, please come in.
We want to see what is happening here.
And I was really surprised that someone would take that amount of time and effort to try to solve the mystery of what was happening.
And of course, they were-
That's the hard work.
That's the piece that's the hard work.
I think that that's one of the coolest things about this Defeat Diastasis program is that, when I say that, I feel like people think I'm getting paid or something for like, we're not.
We're not getting paid to do this at all.
But, you know, it's PT kind of with chiropractic, with personal training, kind of.
Yes.
It's like, it's a whole mix, but also with the psychological aspect of people who are just empathetic and understand, because you're saying that kind of special sauce of the birth worker kind of mentality, and then no men being in there.
I mean, men can go for an adjustment, but that's very rare.
So-
I've sent my husband for the Defeat Diastasis program.
So he's done it too.
But it's only husbands who ever go, whose wives have had success, you know?
So they're bought in.
Right.
Right.
But it is that like, it's so unique in that they have that machine.
And I know what you're talking about, about that connecting of your mind and your body to different parts.
Because when I got on that Neux machine, and then they have you do certain exercises, you're like, oh my gosh, like I totally forgot there was that part of my body.
And then like you're shaking on one leg only.
And you're having to really connect and think because something just activated in you almost not by accident, but without you.
And it's this very odd feeling, but also very powerful.
Yes, I agree.
The machine was able to cut through so much of what my body had just shut down entirely, or it said, ooh, we're never going there again, or we're never going to access that part of our body.
But like you said, because these are birth workers, there were times where I was very triggered because your body's releasing emotions or you want to cry, or you're suddenly back in that moment of having your child.
And it's this is horrific environment, but you have someone there who's safe, who understands, and who is used to having to have these conversations.
This is not just, you're not at the gym.
This is something different and this is something special.
And meanwhile, other moms are coming in with their babies or very pregnant moms are coming in and they're being so loved on.
And the children aren't seen as a nuisance.
It's like you have these chiropractors, these doctors that are like, I'll hold your baby while you're over there at the Defeat Diastasis program.
And it's to the point now where I can't even tell my kids I'm going to get an adjustment because they will want to come with me.
And they get upset if they're left out of it.
She also has those little bunnies that like taste like cake.
You know, that's why my son wants to go.
He's like, she has snacks.
Yes, it is part of it for sure.
So it whenever Dr.
Milo asked me to be on this podcast, at first I thought, am I healed enough to do this podcast?
So I've kind of sat in that question for the last month.
And I am able to say after 10 years, I could be the one to write the testimonial.
But what I've come to learn is that the definition of healed and healing is different than what I was first chasing.
Ten years ago, I would have said, I just want to be healed so that I don't have to think about this anymore, so I can stop worrying about this.
Well, I am now walking in healing, but it's certainly not by that definition, because I've now discovered that healing is active.
You're contending for your healing every day.
It is such a part of my life now, of if I decide to wear heels, I'm like, is it worth it?
Because I'm going to have to go get an adjustment.
I might have some symptoms flare up, and it's just a really intentional decision that I have to make, and similar to workouts.
Sometimes my husband will say, hey, let's go do a workout together.
My first question is, is the pelvic floor safe?
Is it tummy safe?
Because if it's not, I'm out.
I'm just like, I have worked so hard to come so far that I'm very protective of what I'm willing to do, but I really am walking in strength and working with Michaela.
One thing that Dr.
Mila is very good at is she has a lot of different types of people on staff and she's very good at pairing you with who would be best for you.
I can, if it's a gym rat situation, if someone says, do 15, I'm gonna do 20.
Like I'm very competitive, but that isn't always what is best for my body.
So she intentionally put me with someone else who's like, can we connect the mind and the body right now?
Can you not do 20 of those?
Let's do three slow, hard ones instead.
Or if you go too fast.
Yeah, that's what I got in trouble for.
I was just like powering through them, like, hold on, go slower, balance, think about X, Y, and Z, make sure you're breathing this way.
And I was like, okay, I have to slow down.
I'm not good at that.
I kind of just balls to the wall everything like you.
Yes, like you can't just hide in the back and power through because powering through didn't help me for 10 years.
But Michaela figured out that lifting really heavy weights was actually what my body and my mind needed.
I would kind of go into this like zen mode, like that heavier I could lift, but we had to strengthen my pelvic floor enough to be able to withstand the pressure.
And so now it's so interesting.
When I first started the Defeat Diastasis program, it looked more like Pilates, but now, you know, still same PT, same machine, but now I'm under an Olympic weightlifting bar and I'm squat pressing my body weight and doing deadlifts.
And Michaela will hand me something and we immediately discover, oh, that's too light.
I need heavier weights.
And I'm just astounded.
I'm like, how did I get here?
I can't believe how heavy I'm lifting, but I'm thriving.
And along the way, Michaela and Dr.
Milo, they are able to say, do you realize your posture has changed?
Do you realize that the dip in your back is different?
Do you realize that your shoulder is in a different position?
Or because Dr.
Milo has been adjusting for two years now, she can immediately tell me, oh, your hips are in far better alignment.
And that having that continuity of care of someone who can read your body and then tell you what they're seeing, that has been so healing.
I'm like, oh my goodness, my body is shouting.
I don't really know what it's saying, but you all are able to decipher and provide that information to me.
And we're all working together and they're cheering me on and they're cheering my children on and my husband.
And it's just been remarkable.
I didn't think I needed a quote, another defeat diastasis program, but it turns out that I really did.
And I'm so glad that I didn't give up because there were seasons where I would try all the programs and then give up for a while and then it would get worse.
And then I try another program.
And I almost gave up with defeat diastasis.
But the very first morning that I was driving, and Dr.
Mila doesn't even know this, the very first morning I was driving that first 7 a.m appointment, I had woken up that morning with a very specific song in my head.
And I'm a Christian, and I believe the Lord speaks to us in many ways.
But there have been a few occasions in my life where I've woken up with a specific song lyrics in my head, like on repeat, not the whole song, but just one specific lyric.
And it happened on that morning.
And the lyric was, help is on the way.
Help is on the way.
So I drove that first appointment, full of joy and expectation.
This is it, this is what I've been looking for.
Help is on the way.
And I have that first appointment and it's fine, but hard.
And then of course I go home, my body freaks out.
And I think, was I wrong?
But when I drove that second morning, now with a locked up neck and back and my hopes are dashed, I was now clinging to that promise, like a child, with their hand on a forbidden toy.
And I just said, but God, you said hope is on the way.
And I would just say that over and over, every 6:45 a.m.
on that drive to Dr.
Milo's office, of God, you said help is on the way.
So I am holding you to your promise.
And at first, I wondered if I'd heard him right, because it wasn't a quick fix.
But several years into it, it's like, oh, help really was on the way.
But this was a much slower, deeper journey.
But I appreciate it so much more because I now have this massive toolbox of techniques and options.
And when my foot starts to hurt because it is still like the bellwether tells me what's going on with my hip.
When my foot starts to hurt, I'm like, is it the calf?
Do I need an adjustment?
Did I wear bad shoes?
What kind of workout did I have?
You know, I'm able to now for myself, kind of pick through the tools in the toolbox and look and see, like, what is needed for short term, but then also for the long term.
And all of these different practitioners, whether it's Titanier Tinkler or Tommy Teen or Dr.
Milo, they all were a part of the puzzle.
And each one of them was teaching me, and they knew that it was better for me to be educated and informed and empowered.
But I just wanted them to fix me.
I'm like, no, I don't want to learn.
I just want to pay you to fix it.
But now, all these years later, I'm like, oh, this was the harder journey.
But it is so worth it.
But I am grateful that Dr.
Milo's team is just down the road.
I could just kind of run there and be like, oops, I did something.
Please put me back together.
And I ran out of my Defeat Diastasis program sessions last month.
And so now is the first time where I'm kind of operating without them.
And I'm still like trying things out.
Like, am I good?
Like the other day, my husband asked, hey, can you go on a day hike?
And I thought, I don't know.
And so we went.
And I always hear Dr.
Milo's voice in my head of try it.
And you may need to just come get some body work like, you know, after work.
And it's okay.
And that's so freeing.
I'm in kind of that discovery phase now of maybe I can't do that.
I don't know.
Let me see.
I'm not so afraid all the time.
I'm not afraid that I'm going to go all the way back to the beginning.
Now I'm now able to see like what life looks like.
You have the tools.
I have the tools.
You have the tools.
It's so huge.
I think I'm the same way.
I just want everybody to fix me.
But really learning and having the tools and all of that is so beneficial.
I have this complaint.
I have chronic back pain and work with chiropractor for a lot of the same things.
I get so annoyed sometimes.
I complain to my husband.
I just want her to tell me what to do and how to do it and when I should do it.
But really I need to learn because I'm the only one in my body.
So is there any advice that you would give a new mom about their core and pelvic floor health?
One thing I would say is if you are new on this journey, how blessed you are for the options that you have at your fingertips.
Ten years ago, there was just like two that I knew of, and everything was so new and these conversations were being whispered to each other.
In fact, about 12 or 13 years ago, before I started having my own symptoms, I remember being at church and all the kids were jumping on trampoline.
And one of the moms said, Oh, I'm not jumping on the trampoline.
And I looked at her and I said, well, why not?
And they started laughing and they were like, Oh, my trampoline days are over.
But I had no idea what they were talking about.
Now, of course, I fully understand what they are talking about, but I feel like the conversation would have been a little bit more open and people would have said, Oh, have you tried this online program?
Like the conversations are much more open now.
So that's me.
I'm like, I'm that person.
I'm somewhere.
Someone says, I mean, you know that that's common, but not normal.
And you need to go see public for therapist.
Yes.
Whatever.
And I, and women are so grateful for that now.
Like, oh, thank you for telling me, you know, and not just laughing it off.
Like, haha, me too.
Don't talk about it.
So I'm so grateful for the online programs, the in-person opportunities.
There's just so much more help that is available.
Sometimes it's, you know, covered by insurance and sometimes it's not, but you just do what you got to do.
So use all of it at your disposal.
Try different things out.
No one is, hardly anyone can just do six weeks and be like, oh, boom, I'm perfect.
I'm back, you know, to my strong, healthy body.
And if that's you, good for you.
I'm so happy for you.
But just know that for me, it took 10 years.
The other advice I have is to understand that if you have any sort of trauma, if you have sexual abuse trauma, or even for me, like house fire trauma, like that PTSD as well, birth trauma, this is all related.
So you may be going thinking you just need physical exercises.
But what's really happening is your body is completely shut down and protecting these deep, traumatic, emotional storage parts of your body.
And so just be prepared that this is not an easy mathematical equation.
This isn't do 100 Kegels a week and you'll be fixed situation.
I tried that.
I did have a doctor tell me that.
I tried it and it didn't work.
So understand that this can be deep and complex and complicated, but there really are people who want to help you.
Counseling may be a huge component.
In fact, Michaela at BirthCo, she was the one who said, I think you should be doing some parallel counseling and trauma therapy as we go through this.
And just being a safe place understood this was more than physical than what was happening.
And then the last piece is to never underestimate the importance of feeling safe for your healing.
I know I said it earlier, but I think it bears repeating.
I was constantly shutting down the feeling of safety to power through to do the program.
I was so desperate for healing, and I never understood that if I'm feeling unsafe, that doing the quote, the right exercises is not going to bring about healing.
If I'm feeling unsafe, it may be because the environment is not right for me.
It may be that that practitioner isn't right for me, or it could just be entirely me.
It could be what I'm bringing into the situation.
And so now, for example, whenever I was on the recent day hike with my husband at first, I started freaking out thinking, I don't know if I can do this.
I don't know if I can do this.
And then realizing I'm feeling unsafe.
Why am I feeling unsafe?
Oh, it's because I used to have knee issues.
Well, let's do this for 20 minutes and then let me assess if my knee has hurt at all.
And I'm kind of having to teach myself ways to recognize that I'm not feeling safe and then adding in ways to help myself feel safe.
And if you just don't feel safe, then not judging yourself for that and just realizing, you know what?
Try again on a different day.
Feeling safe is so much more vital to the healing journey than I ever realized it could be.
Yeah, a lot of people don't realize how interconnected all of that mind and body work is.
Thank you so much for sharing your story with us.
I think that this is going to be so helpful for people listening.
And we're really thankful that you were vulnerable enough to be open and talk about those things.
And for everyone listening, don't miss next week's episode because we're going to go into more of what she was talking about with all of these hormones and kind of how stressors can impact things.
So not going to tell you exactly what we're talking about, but you're not going to want to miss it because it's directly related to what we just talked about with Amy.
Thank you so much for being here, Amy.
I'm so glad to be here.
Thank you.
Thank you for joining us on Birth, Baby!
Thanks again to Longing for Orpheus for our music.
You can look him up on Spotify.
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See you next week.