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Welcome to I’m Not Even Supposed to Be Here Today, a conversational, culture-savvy podcast for folks trying to make sense of a world that has gone sideways. We’re here to unpack the issues that boggle our minds, all rooted in a little history, a little culture, a little humor, a little group therapy, and a little humility.
Room recording
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Chris: [00:00:00] Heidi ho. Welcome everybody to episode 16 of I'm Not Supposed to Be Here today, a conversational cultural savvy podcast for folks trying to make sense of world gone poo poo. We're here to unpack the issues that bog our minds, all rooted in a little history, little culture, little humor, a little group therapy, and a little humility.
I am Chris Bevelo, your co-host and founder of Baring 2 87, the organization that sponsors this show and an organization that's finding to make the world a better place for all. I'm joined as always by my co-host de, who's a social impact comms strategist by day and who spends her night fighting crime in the city of Gotham.
Welcome, Dez. Just had to mix it up.
Desiree: Tomorrow, Christopher?
Chris: How are you?
Desiree: Team two, face all the way. [00:01:00] I'm doing all right. Exhausted, but doing all right. How about
Chris: I have a um, I have a hot take on Batman, which is the most recent Batman movie is the best Batman movie. Discuss. Have we talked about this already? I feel like maybe we did.
Desiree: Talk amongst yourselves. Uh, remind me what even is the most recent? Like are you talking about the Joker films or are you talking about the end of the, that trilogy from
Chris: Nope. I'm talking about one that's even more recent with Robert Pattinson as Batman
Desiree: Oh
Chris: and the Ridler. Paul. Paul Dano is a ridler. It's,
Desiree: that?
Chris: I don't know, but it is so good. It's very dark, it's very stylistic. Um, Robert Pattinson doesn't bother you as Batman because you rarely see him as Bruce Wayne, and he is not bad as Bruce Wayne, but he is a fine Batman.
As in you don't really know who he is, so he's fine there. Uh, [00:02:00] Zoe Kravitz is in it. Uh, Colin Ferrell debuts as The Penguin, which got his own Emmy winning show on HBO. I highly recommend it. I've probably watched that Batman eight times
Desiree: Eight.
Chris: eight,
Desiree: Wow.
Chris: than the dark Night or vain, which I've watched multiple times.
So just saying,
Desiree: yeah, the, the Bain one was good. Uh, I'm all, it's, I'm sorry, but it's, Batman returns for me forever and always, uh, Batman forever will go down as the most bonkers, like in a good way.
Chris: who was the Batman in that?
Desiree: Which
Chris: George Clooney.
Desiree: George? Uh, he was, I think he was in that one. Um, but for me it was all about that timely Jones as two face. That was just.
Chris: Okay.
Desiree: Just unhinged loved it. But yeah, it's all about, it's, it's the [00:03:00] penguin and I think, is Jim Carrey in that one, or am I like mixing up stuff? I think I'm mixing up stuff. He's in forever anyways. Wow. All right. I'll have to check out the Patson one, uh, which will be something to shake off the, I just saw his movie with, uh, Zendaya.
The Dr. The drama. The drama.
Chris: Is that good? Oh, wait, we we're getting it way ahead of ourselves. We did the icebreaker before we're supposed to, this wasn't even our icebreaker.
Desiree: it's
Chris: we're gonna get to our, I. We're not skipping our icebreaker. We're gonna have to cut it short, which we're not gonna be able to. Just so people know, this is going to be part three of our three part series on, uh, the Crumbling of American Myths.
And we're gonna talk about the melting pot today. But enough of that, can we get to our icebreaker? Can we get to the movie ot? Okay. This is the time for Julia, our producer, to plug her ears. She's not seen. Ot. Uh, this is a spoiler alert. If you have not seen OT and you're [00:04:00] intending to see ot, please stop listening until you can get skip ahead to the segment, which will be clear in the show notes when we're not spoiling this.
But what the hell, first of all, did you like the movie?
Desiree: I did. Yeah, we, we went to go see it because I mean, they had us at Rave in the Desert. Um, and that, of course, the story is about this guy that's going to try to find his daughter, and he's like basically going around with the ragtag bunch of, uh, ravers to, they're heading to like the next rave to find her.
And then, obstacles ensue, obs like levels and levels of obstacles ensue. And we were just on the edge of our seats the entire time.
Chris: I mean, I, the movie was going along and at first I'm like, it's kinda weird when they're dancing and this is set [00:05:00] in Morocco and the, the characters are, they're not like, they're just, it's just, it takes, it took me a second to like get into it, but I was following it and then it, the story captured me and the, um, the characters become very compelling.
So I really liked it. And then like, like you. There's this, I, we've gotta spoil this. I don't know how to talk about it, but like, they have to go through the mountains and they're trying to avoid the military and they don't really say why, but there must be a civil war. I don't even know if there's a war going on Morocco, but it plays a big part of this because it causes them to take a detour on their trek and they go up on these mountains, which are just astounding, and they get stuck 'cause they're in these giant like campers and vans at the top, top of the mountain road.
And at this point the movie's like halfway over and you know, they're having to like, figure out how to get the [00:06:00] trucks unstuck. And you know, they're looking over the edge and it's very precarious. And then so you, you're like, something could happen here, but nothing's gonna happen because at this point they're just like goofy characters and they're loving characters.
And this is just about their story. Did you think something was gonna happen there?
Desiree: There was some foreshadowing of
Chris: Oh
Desiree: oh, get away from the edge or go
Chris: yes,
Desiree: back in the car. And that kind of, I mean, if you pay attention to these things and you're always kinda looking like that was a signal that like something is gonna go awry. I don't know what, but like something along the lines of the fact that they're on a side of a cliff that something could go wrong.
Chris: yes, but
Desiree: but you think like, oh, it, it, it'll be fine. Like, there'll be like a moment where like, oh God, it's happening. But then like, you get saved, but you don't, you don't get saved.
Chris: Like, yes, that's foreshadowing, but foreshadowing makes sense when you think of it [00:07:00] as a thriller or a horror movie. And maybe that's how it was built and I missed it, but I just thought it was like this really compelling story of this, of this kind of weird situation. It was, had been told really good and uh, we won't spoil what happens.
Let's just say it's fucking out of the blue and devastating. Just like, you're just like, what, what, what just happened? Yeah.
Desiree: first one.
Chris: And that's just the first one. And then there's like more and you're like, what is this movie? And I, I, I have to spoil this part too. At the end of the movie, I'm just like, jaw on the floor.
What the f was that Tanya was like, I need to cleanse, I need a, I need a content cleanse with something else. So she like watched some other show. 'cause it is so sad. There's no other way to put it. It just, it, [00:08:00] it, it goes down and then it just ends down in the gutter in terms of emotion for us anyway.
Desiree: In, in terms of emotion, I will say that I'm glad that it wasn't a total Shakespearean tragedy and not like every single person like gets it. But yeah, it was So we, I we're like old ravers from like back in the day, so we were like, heck yeah, let's go like this Looks like Burning Man, but in like North Africa. Um, and so from the beginning, the music, we actually had it on our Oscars list of like, this is what should have won for Best Sound, not F1
Chris: Oh yeah.
Desiree: Mm. It just, it really hit. Um, but yeah, we actually saw it in theater, so then we were like, this is, we, we need to go somewhere to unpack. We're gonna, the bar, we gotta unpack this because not without my daughter, um, which is like our, like running joke, that movie.
Um, and then literally, uh, it occurred in this [00:09:00] movie. yeah, it's, it's a roller coaster. If you, it's, to me it was a thriller. It's like watching these folks try to like, 'cause at first Corinne thought it was gonna be more like taken, you know, the Liam Neon movie, which I had never seen until
Chris: Oh.
Desiree: where it's like, you're going, you're looking for, you know, your, your kid and like things are going to occur.
Chris: Right.
Desiree: I knew that, but I didn't think it would occur to this level.
Chris: No. And like that's how it, the plot is set up as a, a father looking for his daughter in this rave scene in the desert. And then like, I don't know, halfway through the daughter. You just don't ever just, that's gone. That I, I think that that's like, I wonder if they planted that in the, like, like the description of the movie to keep people off guard because it's never even discussed or resolved.
Like just never. So we need to probably stop. We're gonna give, go ahead. Do you have one more point? We're give away the whole movie.[00:10:00]
Desiree: I mean, something says to me that this has to do with like, just how things occur in other countries that, like, you know, in the US that we don't know. Like there, like it's not everything is gonna like, you know, wrap up with a bow or that you're gonna find the person. Like sometimes you, you don't, go awry and it's just like this almost like, not slice of life, but kind of this is
Chris: Jesus
Desiree: slice of life. Um.
Chris: slice of death.
Desiree: yeah. Slice of death, slice of life.
Chris: I mean, it's one thing for things not to, things not to work out. It's another for them to go completely. 180. Just 180. Oh, okay. Anyway, I'm gonna give the sign. I'm like the melting pot. How's that? The melting pot 180. All right. I'm giving the visual thumbs up to our producer, Julia, so she knows that she can start listening again, as we will leave that movie.[00:11:00]
Um. And I feel for her and my other daughter who is a raver, who I'm, I don't know whether to tell her to watch the movie or not. So we'll have to, we'll have to see how it goes. All right. Are you ready to talk about the melting pot?
Desiree: Let's jump into it.
Chris: Okay, so as a reminder, this is, as I, we mentioned, this is the third in our series, probably the last for now, uh, on crumbling American Myths.
Uh, the first one was the American Dream, and that you can do, you can achieve anything here in good old America. The second one was the myth of our global brand, which has crumbled, uh, and continues to crumble. I don't even know how crumbled it is now. I haven't looked at the news as we're recording this on Monday.
I don't know if we've wiped out a civilization or if we bond a ship or what's happened, uh, but a brand continues to crumble. Today we're going to cover the myth of the melting pot, which. I should have like not commented [00:12:00] on before I actually did my homework, because I think in the last two shows I set up as, Hey, we are a melting pot.
It's more of that we wanted to be a melting pot, and that it hasn't, that it's always gone smoothly. Um, we are a melting pot, I think. But even the idea of the melting pot, uh, is not what most people think it is. And that is, uh, a big part of this myth. So, or maybe it is, I don't know, like Dez, I think you'll have more to say on that than I will.
But this is the whole idea that America, the whole American experiment, uh, is a little bit about what the first myth is, which is, hey, the American Dream and anybody can make it here. If you can make it there, you can make it anywhere kind of thing. Um, and that it's for everybody. And we touched this a little bit [00:13:00] last time, uh, in talking about Ronald Reagan shining city on a hill, which was, you know, he saw it as like, the doors are open to everybody and everybody's welcome.
And we want that mix. We want people from all cultures and they're all welcome. And the Statue of Liberty. Give us your tired, hungry masses yearning to be free. We want all of that. Uh, turns out we never really wanted all of that, first of all. Uh, and second of all, we didn't even want some of it. Many of us didn't want any of it.
And so we're gonna break this sucker down. Uh, and Des why don't you kick it off by talking about the origin of, it's interesting because I found a a, a. A citation that goes all the way back to 1782. Uh, that didn't use the word melting pot, but it used melting. So, [00:14:00] uh, all of us know French. SASJ, Hector, St.
Jeane, vicke
cre, COER. I don't know how to speak French. Uh, who described the American dream at this was, I think, were we even a country in 1782? This is pretty sad. I don't know if we'd won the Revolutionary War.
Desiree: yeah,
Chris: We were here. He said, quote, he said, okay, thank you. Here, individuals of all nations. Note that all nations are melted into a new race of men.
So. That's the first historical statement that speaks to the idea of a melting pot, but it's not really where it got its name. Does is it? Would you like to share?
Desiree: Well, I'm not sure about the, the name, but I, I guess when I think about the, like the notion of the melting pot and that [00:15:00] essentially it, it is like that's what they wanted. It was like everybody to erase, you know, who they were and just like assimilate it into one, like a, you know, out of everything, like one or whatever the, the phrase is.
And really what we would aspire to be as a stew, where all of the different flavors and ingredients, you know, make this, you know, delicious, more robust, you know, flavor profiled, you know. Deliciousness to eat, but that's not what they had in vision. But you know what really makes it comical is that, you know, remember there were people already here and all of these folks that came over on these other ships, the, you know, some were on the Mayflower, others were on the Nina, the Pinta, the Santa Maria, they're coming over here and saying like, okay, now anyone after us, like y y'all are immigrants.
You know, we, we are the natives. We are the folks here that are like making all the rules here and that the rest of you folks that are coming over, y'all are immigrants. And it's like, [00:16:00] how? House way. so that's kind of where we are. But the idea is to assimilate to what we want you to be, to what? To what we envision this new world to be.
And so there was an infrastructure for all this, you know, Ellis Island was like set up, you know, processing everybody, like, all right, come through. This is you. This is where you go, this is where you go. No, you gotta change your name, you gotta Americanize it, whatever that means. Um, and so when I think back on this, it's like the history, and especially with being, uh, you know, a Black American, the fact that, you know, if I am looking at my last name, that tells me nothing about who I am. It tells me who my slave owners were originally from the, the initial generations. But when I think about this, it's, hey, we have all, in some way lost some version of our, our heritage, our history, especially with coming through Ellis Island, you know, the names changing. [00:17:00] Um, I know Chris, you and I even kind of talked about this in a couple episodes ago about like your Italian heritage and how like over time, you know, you just kind of melt into this one thing. Um, but yeah, that when I think about melting pot, it's that and that it should have been a stew. We're still trying to make it a stew, but these folks are just trying to make is all into one homogenous thing. Um, that is essentially, I guess question mark. I don't know.
Chris: So this is so interesting as a white man raised in the Midwest, I'm gonna just admit this to the world right now. This literally like we, we set up this whole. Podcast. I did all of the research, and just now as you were talking, is the first time I ever realized that melting is a melting pot. I always just thought of melting pot as you [00:18:00] pull these people together in a pot.
It isn't that cool. I never got the melting part. I never thought of the melting part. I never, I actually didn't believe it was about the melting part. I thought it was about the stew part,
Desiree: Mm-hmm.
Chris: but it is about the melting part. And there's, there's more, right? So as a child of the seventies, I am going to quote from what for many of us who were latchkey kids and who grew up in the seventies, would consider to be the bible, um, of our youth.
If you're not religious, and that would be schoolhouse rock. So let me, let me read to you. From the lyrics of the Great American Melting Pot does because it brings, it does use stew, by the way. Interesting. But it also makes clear. What historically has been meant by the melting pot? So you kind of alluded to it without saying it outright, but this says it outright.
Okay, so this [00:19:00] is in the middle of the song somewhere. America was founded by the English, but also by the Spanish, Dutch, and French. The principle still sticks. Our heritage is mixed. So any kid can be the president. You simply melt right in. It doesn't matter what your skin, it doesn't matter where you're from or your religion.
You jump right in to the Great American melting pot, the Great American melting pot. Ooh, what a stew. Red, white, and blue America was a new world. World, and Europe was the old, America was the land of hope. And so the legend told on Steamboats, by the millions in search of honest pay, those 19th century immigrants sailed to reach the USA.
Where are they coming from? Des? It's the melting pot feels kind of, it's, you're not opening your whole cabinet full of spices there. You're picking from one, from one shelf.
Desiree: Mm-hmm.
Chris: to add to that. What I was trying to get you to go to before, [00:20:00] so you can definitely comment on this, was the official origin of the melting pot was from a British Jewish playwright named Israel Zang.
Well, uh, and he actually wrote a play in 1908 called The Melting Pot, which was the story of a Russian Jewish immigrant who found an America, a place where all the races of Europe are melting and reforming. And President Theo, president Theore Roosevelt declared We Americans are children of the Crucible.
So, uh, no, it's not just, I don't know if it's just Western. The play de debuted during the great wave, um, of immigration from Europe when millions of Southern and Eastern Europeans ported American cities. So you had, you had Russians Polish a hundred percent coming in, which would be considered Eastern, I think.
Um. Italians, that's when my folks came.
Desiree: Yeah. Yes. All of [00:21:00] them were coming in, but the idea was based off of like, essentially really just wanting the western Europe, like when you had mentioned like, oh, those that are coming from,
Chris: France?
Desiree: France, you know,
Chris: Yes.
Desiree: Like tho that's it. So when you got to, because I, because I'm also thinking about like who were looked down upon the most, especially when they were coming over Ellis Island doing all that.
And it was the Italians, the Russians, the Irish, that's what I mean, is like, there was
Chris: Yeah.
Desiree: between like, well, the de you know, quote unquote Desirables of the Western, uh, Europe, and then those that they were like mocking from Eastern Europe and then, uh, all kinds of things ensued. Uh, seed gangs of New York. Uh, but that's, that's what I was referring to.
Chris: Okay, so that makes sense. So we have three components of this myth that we're going to explore. One is the melting part, which just, I still can't believe that I never put two and two together. Like, oh no, you're supposed to melt. You're supposed to be a fond de and [00:22:00] all together, which explains maybe the third part.
The second is from the get go, this meant Europe and maybe more specifically Western Europe. That was the desire. And the third is, uh, even, even when that criteria is met, we really struggle with this idea of immigration. We always have. So we, we say we're a melting pot, but we have always, always. Struggled with it.
Uh, and certainly there are people, and not just today by the way, but people throughout our history who would've been just thrilled had we not had a melting pot and will just set aside the idea that Native Americans were here before any of this shit happened. Um, which brings to mind the birthright citizenship case in front of the Supreme Court.
And I don't know if you heard this, but, uh, one of the justices, I think it was Amy Cohn Barrett, I [00:23:00] actually, I'm not sure, I think it was a right wing justice asked, like, because the, the standard that government was trying to say, it was like, it's based on where your housing of your parents is. So if your housing of your parents is United States, then that should count.
And they're like, so are you counting Native Americans? And the guy was like, kind of caught off guard. He is like, well, what do you mean? He is like, well, I mean. What, where, you know, their housing was here. Do they count as, are they birthright United States citizens? He's like, um, you know, well, I guess if their housing was here, I, he's like, that's a good question.
I'll have to look into that. And you're just like, mind exploding. Like, you're ex are you gonna find a way to exclude the people that were here before we were here?
Desiree: Mm-hmm.
Chris: stuff. So, uh, we have a lot of cultural references. My favorite is the one I just mentioned by the way, which is, uh, the Great American melting pot.
Do you have, do you have any [00:24:00] favorite movies or books that, that kind of celebrate the idea of a Mel? Because we got plenty that go to show the reality, but celebrate it.
Desiree: Oh, God. Uh,
Chris: Did you have to read,
Desiree: I,
Chris: you have to read A Tree Grows in Brooklyn when you were growing up?
Desiree: I didn't. Mm-hmm.
Chris: That was like on reading list when I was in, I guess probably junior high, but I never read it, so I don't know if that counts.
Desiree: I can't think of anything that like truly celebrates it. I mean, there's like films and television that kind of touch on it, but it's, but it's always, never this sense of, um, like I guess what it could be, be what it should have been or what have you. But when I think about like the immigrant stories, I think about, um, more the recent tellings of this and like the brutalist for example. you know, that was such a phenomenal story of just kind of like being right there with a person. Like going through that process of like, okay, [00:25:00] we got here, we're going through all the motions, we're finding our sense of place, um. And this idea. But I will say this was actually something really interesting.
Like, do you know the series Subway Takes? It's a little, it's a social series on like TikTok, Instagram. Basically it's this guy Kareem, he's interviewing folks on the subway and it's like they're giving their hot takes, kinda like he did about with Batman. the one I just saw today was this guy that's talking about the idea that like, the idea of the expat is racist. because if you are a, uh, if you're from a, an affluent country and you're moving to a quote unquote poorer country, you're an expat, you know, you're coming over, you're like bringing your riches and you know, like, oh my God, thank you so much for coming over here. But if you were coming from a poorer country to a richer country, say like, you know, literally anyone that's coming to the US you're considered an immigrant.
And like just the connotations of all that. And I was just like. Wow. Like all of this [00:26:00] contains layers and multitudes. Um, but yeah, to your, your question, it's about like, ooh, who is considered an immigrant, who's considered an expat?
Chris: Yeah.
Desiree: and just the questions around that of like, you know, how we, how we got to here, but like how so much of this is built up and still very much keeping us apart in a way, or like trying to make us all meld into like one thing and like we refuse to do that.
Chris: Well, I mean,
Desiree: Well, I,
Chris: it's so sad to me. I'm so naive. It's so sad to me that this was always meant to be melting. I guess I shouldn't be surprised because that is reality. The reality is like, assimilate, assimilate. Yet I always looked at it as a celebration of differences and different cultures, and that's what, that's what makes this place cool is that we have all of the different cultures and all the different peoples in one place, which that diversity.
Of culture and arts [00:27:00] and knowledge and worldview is a strength. I believe it's a strength, but I always thought that's what the melting pot was about. I'm just exposing to the world that I'm a complete moron. That it was all about like, no, bring, bring your, bring us all your Western European people and then make sure they turn out so that you can't tell they're different than the rest of the white people.
Desiree: It doesn't necessarily make one or moron, it's just that the brand story worked. You know, they told us the story, the myth, the the ruse, and we were like, oh yeah, I like, obviously, 'cause I'm looking around and all these people, like, we're all different. so the first time it ever became a reality to me was growing up in the south, you pretty much just kind of had like black and white, uh, you know, as ethnicities, you know, it's either black here and there.
Like my high school, primarily black and white. You know, there might've been like a Latino family. There might've been an Indian family here, a Thai family there, but like, just like super like. [00:28:00] Um, uh, sparse. And then after college I moved to Las Vegas, and that was so eye-opening to me. And like, what also kind of feels like a wow, I'm, where have I been living? And I had just gotten to town and I'm driving. And the fact that I just was blown away by just seeing so many other brown people, not just black and white, but like brown people. There were, you know, there's a huge, uh, Mexican population, Hawaiian, uh, Filipino, you know, and I, and I had never, uh, experienced that, you know, growing up in Tennessee.
And I was just like, oh. Wow. And so it was actually from my friends, learning from them about like their growing up in the seventies and eighties and essentially feeling a way about like, wow. I, especially if they were, uh, if it was a couple generations that were born here and like whether or not you are able to speak Spanish, whether Spanish was spoken in your home, whether you have, you know, dual language [00:29:00] and a lot of folks that grew up in that era of like deep assimilation, you know, you lost some of that. Um, and so that's where again, just kind of like the living experience of actually like meeting people that I even remotely like learned. And then you just start to like, kind of unpack things and as you travel you see like just the differences of how like different cities are laid out. Like I had questions around like, why is there a Chinatown?
Like why are all these different? you know, well. neighborhoods that are specific to, you know, nationality or origin or ethnicity and all that kind of stuff. The other question I had, maybe you, uh, may know a bit more of this being in the, the part of the country that you're in, because as people were coming into the US, you know, a lot of folks of course, stayed in the east, uh, northeast, but then based off of your skill and you know, what you unquote bring to the table, you were then kind of shipped to other parts of the country or were able to gain access to go to other parts of the country. [00:30:00] But I remember growing up and there being a lot of like. Polish jokes,
Chris: Oh yeah.
Desiree: just, and I was like, so I looked it up, I'm like, wh why? Again, this is a very distant memory of just seeing like television shows or like comedians or something like that, having never been to the Midwest. And then I finally get to the Midwest and I'm seeing like the, their large, uh, Polish communities.
Chris: Chicago. Yeah.
Desiree: I'm like, what is the D a second. Why was that such a thing? And it has to do with like, you're always the greater, like the, the major leading group society or whatever, they're always gonna have that one group that they're just gonna totally like talk trash about. You know? For before then it was the Irish, before then it was the Italians and then so forth.
There's
Chris: Yeah.
Desiree: anyways, I just remember that tail end of like there being a ton of Polish jokes. So you may have more insight being a bit westerner.
Chris: I mean. The Polish Oaks [00:31:00] were real when I was growing up. So seventies and eighties. And when you think about it in retrospect, how effing sad is that because we knew about the Holocaust, right? Like here is a country that had been run over in two Wars that was at the center of this horrific World War II Holocaust, and we're making jokes about Pollock.
Now, I do know from my family, my Italian family, that, I mean, there are, I don't know how many derogatory terms there are for Polish people. I can think of the one. There are a lot for Italians. I mean, I'm Italian, so I, I'm like, I can say wop, dego, um, uh, geez, what am I trying to say? Something about the greasy hair.
I can't remember. But there's, there's a few. And so we would hear those when I was a kid. Circulated among the family. [00:32:00] Um, and so it's just, it depends where you are, I guess. But yeah, I mean, Chicago had a huge polish and I don't know why the, but if you go back and watch all in the Family,
Desiree: Mm-hmm.
Chris: the, he throws the, that derogatory word out left and right.
Archie Bunker does.
Desiree: I'm pretty sure that's where I first heard it, because like,
Chris: Yeah.
Desiree: that's what would be on when I would stay at my grandmother's house and I was kind of like, oh, time to go to bed. That and mash. Um, but so I looked into that and essentially, you know, the, that, that, that idea of like, we're always gonna like shit on the people before us, right? that's that, that way that we see even so to, to this day, there's like pitting each pit, pitting, pitting one of a one, I can't speak today, us against each other. Essentially, all in the name of like, getting back to that, like that assimilation and that, that the whiteness. And so, [00:33:00] like I said before about the idea of like, you know, it's not just, uh, native and indigenous folks that lost something and black Americans who were former slaves had lost something, all of us lost something because we were all in the name of like, just getting to a point where all of those folks, uh, from. West and eastern Europe where we're just seen as white. Like you get an opportunity to join the great white race, the Anglo-Saxon of it all. And so then that gives you the ability to then like, you know, talk trash about like the next, until they essentially like assimilated like it. And you find that in the conversations too, around like the, um, proximity to whiteness like we in, in the black community.
This idea of like, oh, you know, you're abandoning your community and, and the aspirations of proximity to whiteness and that is still not going to save you. Um, but yeah, all of this kind of goes back to that idea of like melting into [00:34:00] that one assimilated pot
Chris: You know, and what's funny is this is gonna get me in trouble probably, but when I think about all these cultures, right, and you just just name any culture, the black culture, but it could be the Italian culture, it could be German culture, it could be Irish, it could be whatever. Those feel so rich in all the ways, in all of the traditions and the stories and the food and the culture.
And then, and then like what is, it's almost like you don't assimilate into a different culture. You just wipe that out. Because to me, the white culture's like, what is it?
Desiree: What is it?
Chris: I don't know what that is. So I mean, like.
Desiree: It's capitalism.
Chris: I guess that's what it's, I guess that's what it is, but I, but you're right. I mean, it, it is something where, [00:35:00] um, you know, Italians for sure, Italians were treated like an immigrant minority, a racial minority in the beginning.
Desiree: In the beginning.
Chris: and the difference is they were allowed into the white club eventually. So, so now you're like, if you're Italian, you're white, you're not, you're not even brown. I mean that you're just white. That's just the way you are. Um, Irish is the same, Irish people were white. They just weren't, they weren't in the, in the white, you know, club.
They were looked down upon. They were also treated like trash. Right. And so, I mean, here where I am at. We're known for being the great white North for a few reasons. Uh, Minnesota is a white, white state dominant, white, Scandinavian, German that said [00:36:00] Minneapolis. Definitely not. Minneapolis has the largest concentration of Somalis.
It has the largest concentration among, uh, it has a very large Russian community. So it's really interesting that we have, our black community is not as large as it is in other, like sized cities. Um, but it's there. So Minneapolis itself is diverse, but you get outside of Minneapolis and St. Paul and,
Desiree: Mm-hmm.
Chris: who said something to the effect of, and we'll, we'll find this source and we'll cite it. Uh, the average IQ in Somali is 72, which is below [00:37:00] the mentally disabled.
This guy's just spewing racial falsehood like a horribleness and our own pre it's fallen. The lead of our own president fallen the lead of our own president attacking Somalians for all kinds of reasons. None of them legitimate really. Um, but hey, they're easy targets. They're easy targets. So, so yeah, we could go back.
I don't know if we wanna go back and look at all the times we've done this 'cause there's a lot.
Desiree: Well, yeah, I mean, with anyone that's coming in, like they have done a version of that re regard. Like they're, they're always going to find this, like that one thing and like try to, uh, uh, uh, find, basically tell that negative story about. Your heritage, your people and what have you. We didn't even get in, we haven't even gotten into, um, Asian Americans and, and Chinese Americans, and then some of the acts that then pretty much, you know, hey, like, come over here, uh, you and [00:38:00] then Japan and help build our railroads and all this stuff.
And then like. Say like, you know what, actually no more. And then like, where are you left? Like, just stranded, uh, in California. But now if you look today, you know, especially on the west coast of like how much of an influence, um, that there is from Asian culture, you know, you, you, you see these spots of where there there's a bit of a stew where it's not just the segregation, there's not just the assimilation, um, but that what could possibly be where everybody's kind of like dipping into everyone else's culture as well. I will say this was interesting, this came up in the Sinners movie 'cause everything goes back to sin and the fact that there were Asian characters there and that they were grocers like, telling that story of their experience in the south. And then it reminded me, I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. The show Treme, I'm obsessed with New Orleans. Um, I, have you ever seen Treme? It's like the, the next
Chris: [00:39:00] Precursor.
Desiree: the wire.
Chris: Yeah.
Desiree: Um, and so anyways, that's talking. The, the story is about like, uh, post-Katrina, new Orleans, the neighborhood of Treme. But one of the guys, um, they, they show more of the story of the fishermen, which I believe they were Vietnamese.
And that there were like all of these, um, communities that, you know, are born out of, um, you know, where they are. But then we're able to make it to these other parts of the country, you know, to, to serve that part of the country, to be a part, to assimilate in a way. So it's really sparks all of these others, uh, seeing these other documentaries that we're talking about and like. folks that were from this area, era of, uh, civil rights in the United States, but that were Asian. And so like sinners just kind of highlighting that was so fascinating to me. 'cause there's a documentary, I can't think of the name of it, but it was like talking to those grocers and that I'm like, oh wow.
I'm listening to, you know, [00:40:00] Asian folks that have this southern accent. You know, that's just incredible to me.
Chris: Yeah.
Desiree: but yeah. But for the most part, when you go to any major American city, everyone is kind of like in their own little, little enclaves. And then they say, like, the biggest example is Chinatown.
It's like, well, when you essentially, kicked all of these folks out because they didn't fit into like what your narrative of the melting pot was, then you put 'em in their part of the country and they're like, well, why didn't you melt? And like, why? Because when you go to Chinatowns, it's very much. You
Chris: Mm-hmm.
Desiree: the language, the food. Like when you're looking at a, when you're looking at a menu, it may, there, there may not be any English on there, which I love that. 'cause then it's like, okay, this feels like really authentic and we're not just getting some like, watered down American version of Chinese food, right?
For, for example. that also was a place of refuge. You know, where, a place where like, okay, I already know that my people are here, they're safe, I'm gonna be taken [00:41:00] care of. Kinda like in the, when we saw on the brutal list, um, where I'm like, okay, I can go here. It's gonna be safe. I already know people here. But then much like that character, uh, the main character, he runs into his cousin who essentially has assimilated and gets kicked out and like, Hey man, you gotta kind of go do your own thing because you're, you're not really assimilating and like, I'm you, I don't want you blowing my cover, basically. Or something.
Something along those lines. Um, but yeah, we've. This country has essentially done that to every single person throughout history. Like none of this is new. And so the idea of like, oh my God is this who, this is not who we are. It is in fact who we've always been.
Chris: I'm gonna whip through 'em quick. I'm gonna whip through just to remind people. Alright, so this is, this is based on research. It may not be completely, um, comprehensive, but so start, so you can go all the way back to the 17, 18 hundreds with, with Germans, uh, and the Irish, we've talked about that. Also, Catholics, by the way, [00:42:00] which is not a nationality, but, um, people don't realize, or, or maybe don't remember when JFK was elected as the first Catholic president.
That was a big freaking deal. Even in 1960. That was a big deal. Um, but one of the two major parties in the United States, the Democrat Party and the Know Nothing Party, um, the Know Nothing party was built on anti-Catholic. Um. Policies and amp anti-immigrant, uh, policies. So they be, became replaced by Republicans, uh, eventually, but go back that far.
We have touched on the Chinese, uh, and I can't remember which episode we did that, but we were talking about a, uh, God, I almost called it a quiet place. The name of the movie that was a train, train, something.
Desiree: dreams.
Chris: Train dreams, uh, where there's a thread of the Chinese laborers who are treated horribly. Um, there was even a law passed in [00:43:00] 1882 called the Chinese Exclusion Act, uh, which restricted immigration by race, barring Chinese laborers, denied them citizenship that wasn't repealed until the forties, 1940s.
We already talked a little bit about what, what could be called or is referred to as the refuse of Europe. So that's the 1880s through the 1920s and thirties where immigration came in. We had some brutal immigration laws, um, that were passed as a result of that also. We could dive into eugenics, which was tied into a lot of that as well.
We had internment of the Japanese people. Remember that In the 1940s, uh, I just came across this because I'm watching that series Des, that you recommended on Hitler and the Nazis on Netflix. Uh, I just came across the episode where they're starting to talk about the Holocaust and they tell the story of a ship, a large ocean liner that was sent to the [00:44:00] United States full of Jewish refugee refugees.
That was turned back because we didn't want them, we didn't want the Jewish refugees. So we turned them back. Uh, and I think it said like, yeah, the research shows more than a quarter of the people on that ship were killed in the Holocaust. Uh, and the, and Frank's family applied for a visa at the United States and was denied Nice work.
Um. So then you can look, um, all the way to more recent times where Muslims have been, uh, attacked in all kinds of ways following nine 11. Uh, again, that's just pure racism. If we were gonna, you know, ban people or castigate people based on their religion, all religions go down. Uh, not just Muslims. They all go down.
So there's a short history of how we have really, really, [00:45:00] I was gonna say wrestled with nice euphemism. We've really tried to screw over immigrants, just like we're doing today. We're just trying to screw 'em over. We're trying to, we're trying to keep 'em out, trying to keep 'em out. We're trying to treat 'em like shit.
Uh, we've even been treating our own citizens like shit in our rushed, ridiculous, violent approach to trying to move people out of the country. Uh, which brings us to. The reality does, which I think we've kind of hit a lot. Um, there's way more cultural references that I could find to speak to the reality of this nonsense.
And, and you know, one that really stands out to me, one of my favorite movies of all time is West Side Story, the original. And that movie provides It is so good. It is. I mean, when you think about when it came out in the early sixties, speaking the [00:46:00] truth about race, at a time when nobody spoke the truth about race.
Now it is speaking about Hispanics and Italians. You don't see any black folk in there, but it's awfully honest about immigration, about what it means to be an immigrant about racism and, and Italians were still not favored at that time. And one of my favorite scenes is these two gangs, right? The sharks and the um, jets.
And they fight each other all the time. They hate each other, but one time they're doing a parlay and they're trying to figure out how they're gonna deal with this situation. And the cops come in and all of a sudden the two groups kind of bond. And they bond over their position as the fiddly treated immigrants [00:47:00] to the American white cops.
And, and it's a moment where you're just like, holy shit. Like, I like it when they're together. I like it that they're like teaming up here to like, make fun of the cops and the play dumb. And it's, it's really an interesting scene in the movie. So, I mean, there are a lot of cultural touchstones. I don't know if you have any that stand out to you more recent, but that one to me is just like, it's incredible that that was 50 years ago, 60 years ago, still rings true today.
Desiree: you know, when you mentioned that I, mind also then goes to Spike Lee's Do the Right Thing,
Chris: Mm-hmm.
Desiree: and that is a depiction of, you know, hot Summer Day in Brooklyn and you have all of the different, uh, various, um. Communities, ethnicities, what have you, um, that are kind of living amongst each other, you know, and like kind of navigating the [00:48:00] tensions there. that's where I start to think of it's like, uh, you know, who the main character, Mookie, is a, you know, pizza delivery guy for this Italian family, uh, pizza join. just the conversations around like, oh, with the brother, uh, or one of the sons. Uh, of the owner and he's just like, oh, like you want to, uh, you know, take in all of our black culture, you know, you're listening to our music, you know, you, maybe you're even trying to say the N word, um, but then like you're the generational gap of that, of, uh, but you're not stepping up for us.
You like, you're, you're still not like, really like supporting us in this community. Like, we're, you know, why are there no black people on the, you know, we, you got Frank Sinatra, you got all these folks and what have you. Um, so that's what I kind of think of, which then kind of leads me into the Malcolm X and learning more about his story, you know, through Spike Lee and the Malcolm X, uh, epic that came out in 92. And the idea of, you know, I. [00:49:00] I don't believe this story. I am gonna strip my last name because that is the slave owner's name, and I'm going to assume the name of X. And then all of his different journeys, you know, from poverty to prison, to politics and, and what have you. Um, but like finding your way, like in a way, to me that feels like more of the American story of like just kind of navigating like what has been handed to us, but then finding like answers for yourself, um, in a way.
But yeah, that's, that's where I kind of go.
Chris: Well, you just hit the nail on the head for the Godfather. You just described The Godfather because The Godfather to me and Godfather too, even more because it shows kind of, um, Marlon Brando's character, the Godfather, and the first one, Robert De Niro plays her as a young, plays him as a younger man, and it shows him immigrating and, you know, basically having to find his way.
Find success in a way that was [00:50:00] allowed for him. And at the time, the options for success for an Italian were extraordinarily limited. Crime was the way. And so he built a successful company because after all, the mob was called Murder Incorporated. Eventually, um, he, he built a successful enterprise. It just happened to be criminal because that was the only thing he could do, um, to succeed in this country we called America.
So it's such a realistic view of the melting pot and what it means to say, we invite your poor huddled masses, but screw you. You get, you're gonna be treated less. You're not gonna be given the same opportunity. So we welcome you with all of these caveats and bullshit. Um, shocker that some people turn to crime.
It's even more shocking that most do not. Most do not most fight their damn way through all of the hurdles. [00:51:00] Maybe the biggest tragedy from what's happening today is the fact that, that they're rounding up people that have taken every step that they've been told to take. Everything they've done by the book, they're shown up for their immigration hearing.
They're showing up for their, like they're gonna be sworn in and they're taken in. I mean, there's no sense in that. There's no sense in that there's no, they're not criminals. You're just a racist anti-immigrant F ball. The people that are behind that, which turns out to be the federal government, by the way, just putting that out there because,
Desiree: legislation, know, something that I'm thinking of that like would've also truly made us a melting pot is, you know, the idea of interracial marriage, has
Chris: hmm.
Desiree: outlawed and fought against, you know, throughout of, uh, the US history. Um, and it is still kind of [00:52:00] like, uh, frowned upon, uh,
Chris: Oh.
Desiree: is there's more conversations around it happening and like a lot of discussions within like, uh, black community around like, ooh, do or don't or have, like, what does that mean? Like me, like I've, I'm in an interracial relationship and like I have to navigate that. Like, how is this gonna be viewed, you know, by anyone that's black that I come across? Um, and so yeah, like that would've made us more like this, the, this mixed stew is if more of that was allowed, but that's so frowned upon. Um, I had one other point, but I lost it.
Chris: That's okay. It'll come back to you and you can just blurt it out. 'cause we're, we're really talking about today. Um, and I would say it's not only become more frowned upon interracial marriage, like you now have, you now have people who feel free and emboldened to speak explicitly against it. You have religious figure speaking against it.
You have politicians speaking against it. There was a, God, I can't remember, it was a senator [00:53:00] representative from the, from a Midwest state to Pennsylvania or Ohio, um, that was asked about state's rights and like maybe states, you know, like maybe this should be a state's right issue, not a national. You know, law that allows for that.
And like, he would be fine if a state prevented interracial marriage. You're just like, boy, we are, we are going backwards. And again, we can thank our friend. Like, it's, it's sometimes it feels like maybe we're, uh, we're a hammer and everything's a Donald Trump. But I mean, I, I don't know how else you talk about where we're at today without this, without this human.
Right. Before he even was president, he was railing on, uh, his predecessor Barack Obama for not being born in the us. Uh, so the whole birth certificate bullshit, uh, he loves to say Barack Hussein Obama. He loves to [00:54:00] talk about the Hussein. Um. Then I forgot this, but in my research, thank God for research, when he announced running for president in 2015 was when he made his, the Mexicans are the Mexicos sending us their rapists.
That's when he first said that. Um, so great start. Uh, you know, term one wasn't phenomenal. He had a Muslim ban. Uh, he had a shithole nation's comments. Uh, he wanted to build a wall. Of course, Mexico was gonna pay for it, but that's just like a, that's like a little piece of cracker and cheese compared to the seven course meal we're being served right now in terms of immigration.
And I mean, there's all kinds of ways we can talk about this Des, but it's not good.
Desiree: Y Yeah. I mean, to me that was the beginning and like to a lot of [00:55:00] people obviously, um, where we saw that shift change of like how people were speaking and acting and the things that they were doing. And it's almost like you, the floodgates were open for like, oh, we can be openly racist now. We can be openly sexist. You know, back then 20, you know, 15, 16, 17, it was just like, oh, you know, weird. You still kind of knew like, oh, like don't do that. But now. Floodgates are open, people are saying and doing, you know, some of the worst and most heinous things. But I have hope the pendulum will swing back around like, we, a a nation has never stayed in just this place.
It's always been this, you know, you, whatever metaphor you wanna use, whether it's cyclical or pendulum swing or what have you. Um, but still it's like it swung way back to like what we were even seeing in the sixties that we haven't experienced in a very, very long time.
Chris: No, and the, the list, right? [00:56:00] Like, so we have a, we have a cool little app we created for our agenda, which allows us to categorize things and usually it's by like, we're gonna talk about the past, we're gonna talk about today, and then it's got the major subjects and then within the major subjects that might have like four points that you can expand and contract.
When you get to the second term and you get to the different policy changes, it like has to sub reference again. There are so many things under attack, like it's hard to cover them all and we won't cover them all. Um, the big beautiful Bill was an assault on, on immigrants, um, billions of dollars for immigration enforcements.
Uh, you have the stated desire to, uh. Eliminate birthright citizenship. You have the stated desire to denaturalize [00:57:00] citizens. Uh, you have record ice detention, you have violence when it comes to ice. You have people dying in ice detention. You have deportations for the first time in our history to places where people are not from.
You have US citizens that have been caught up in this included, uh, including again, Renee. Good. And, um, oh, help me, Freddy, um, who were murdered in Minneapolis. You have the assault on our education system, universities funding medical institutions funding, cutting off HB one visas just. Like the smartest people in the world came here and now they're not only not coming here, they're all leaving.
Uh, we are just destroying the good parts of the [00:58:00] melting pot. Right. For all the things that we're saying that are negative about assimilation, the idea of bringing in diverse populations you and I believe is a good thing and a strength, and we are destroying that in front of our eyes, and will we bring it back?
I would like to agree with you that the pendulum swings back, but how long is it gonna take for somebody that is studying for a PhD in nuclear physics to want to come back here? They're not just gonna change their plan in two years and come on back, like, we're gonna have to work our asses off to bring these people back.
Uh. It's, it's that bad and I just flew through through those. So if there's you, anyone to jump on, I'm sure I miss some. There was just so much. It was like we could have just done a, a whole podcast. Just on that, just on the steps we're taking to to, to really, really kill the idea of [00:59:00] immigration and the value of immigration immigrants.
Desiree: Well, it's like the idea of, you know, going back to the myth from last, uh, the last sessions about this is the place that you can come, you know, to essentially live out your wildes dreams, learn, bring your smarts, you know, add to, and that essentially this is causing. Like, uh, that brain drain and that we are losing some, like this is what is to be lost.
If we aren't continuing to be that place where like folks from all continents can come here and like create the greatest technology, um, you know, reverse some of the most insane amount of like healthcare a ailments, you know, what have you. Like, the idea is that everybody's coming together, bringing their experience, their knowledge, their smarts, um, from the continent and then like this being that safe place to do that.
And it's no longer that safe place to do that. something else that I learned, which is really interesting and fascinating, especially given, you know, 20. [01:00:00] 2020 to 2024, where we were the, the DEI and, um, the idea of, uh, affirmative action and like this idea of like, okay, we have all of these people, we've done a lot of people wrong.
How do we right some of those wrongs? How do we make sure that all of these voices are to the, to the point about the richness of, uh, people's understanding and shared experience being in the same room to come up with solutions. The fact that the idea of diversity was a way for, uh, 'cause the diversity, DEI all that has been, been around for many decades before, uh, George Floyd, um, but it was just underground.
But there's this idea of like being, like diversity was a way of being able to talk about race without actually having to talk about race. You would just say, oh, just make sure that the room is diverse or you know, that there's some diversity here. And it's like. WW what do you, what do you, what do you mean by that? and something that I worked, uh, on and like wrestled with as like a DEI leader was the idea of like, [01:01:00] we can't just say these blanket sas. It's like, how can we be more specific around that? But just the fact that it was that idea of like no longer having to talk about race outright and just like putting this blanket statement on, uh, which is deeply, deeply fascinating.
But, uh, the harms, the harms of all of this.
Chris: Well, there's, we've talked about some of them already. Like we had a whole episode on, uh, the crumbling of our global brand, which you can put right up at the top there, right? So we at least gave the illusion to the outside world that we welcomed, that we welcomed that diversity. We wanted your smartest people.
Well, that's not, we, we're, we're now literally saying we don't want, you we're literally saying that. So our brand, I mean, not only on principle, does that hurt our brand, um, it hurts the reality of this country in the ways we just talked about. So that's, that's an obvious thing. [01:02:00] Uh, we, you know, as we continue this kind of cycle of, of hate, that to me is a huge one.
Just the, not, it's, it's a brain drain and it's like a brain. Frame that's just preventing smart people from, from coming here. Um, I, I mean, diversity, I believe in all of the research that shows diversity actually makes for a stronger culture, a stronger business, what have you, right? So I would rather have a diversity of, uh, points of view and lived experiences so that I'm able to come up with the best ideas and, um, be successful as possible.
And so the more we crimp that through anti-immigration, uh, the harder that's going to become in my opinion. So that's a big deal. Um, I, I think like I. This also, you, you, we've talked about this a little [01:03:00] bit, but the thing that Trump has done in so many ways is allowed people to speak to their worser selves with confidence and out loud.
And so an example of this is the, the horrible replacement theory, which actually is rooted in the idea that there's a, a Jewish like power behind everything that wants to get rid of the white person. Which is interesting because most people here I think would, would not think of Jewish folks as non-white.
Right. But, and they've often been talked about in terms of a race and not a religion and all that, but it's more now less about that and more just about, oh, we're letting all these people of different color in to replace the whites. And so all of this activity to prevent immigration, not by the way [01:04:00] from people, white people from South Africa.
We should note that that is the one group, literally there's been called out as like, Hey, we want more of you. Trump just said it last week because there's a white genocide there. Holy shit. So it just gives more fuel to that. It just, the fact that we're actually acting that way empowers the people that think that way.
It makes it easier for other people to see that. Um, and it just feeds that whole bullshit of the other, the, the number one way that you can drive fear and political movement is the other. And today, the other is the immigrant, right? It's not, it's not. The, the Jewish folks from 1930s and forties. Um, it's not, it's not even the blacks as much anymore as it was forever, though.
You still are [01:05:00] another, I'm sorry to say, but the focus today is the immigrant. They are the other with the, with the queer community. I think running a close second,
Desiree: I mean, in
Chris: you tell me if I'm wrong.
Desiree: well, I mean in general this has been the through line, but it's like more in the, it's the quiet part is being spoken out loud more so now, and that essentially if you are not whites, heterosexual, uh, Christian, Protestant or what have you than you are other. And so even think about the term like, you know, people of color bipoc and it's just like lumping all of us, like as other over here, this other category and the fact that it's like everything is centered on, you know, you're either white. Or you're that other. Um, but like we know, we bring all of this up, not to just stress you out, but we're, you know, as folks that are just like trying to navigate this ourselves and that yeah, we're not going to be able [01:06:00] to fix, you know, this, this immigrant issue, this racism issue and, and the like. But we bring all of this up and like we're, again, we're doing this research alongside of you and we bring all of this up to just say like, Hey.
You know, look back, like reflect on question all of this, know what the mechanism is and that Yes. You know, most of us are, most people experience, you know, racism or xenophobia, you know, the fear of anyone that's remotely different from the big three, um, that I just mentioned. And, and ethnic hierarchy that we've seen even amongst, you know, those that are, you know, considered white and that all of this just happens.
Like, it's like it's the weather and that understanding that all of this was invented order to like, keep this as a, uh, keep us against each other so that those that are actually like gaining from this, we're not looking at them, we're not focused on them. That's why there's like this whole idea of eat the rich and it's like we're not, because they're already, so they're always just [01:07:00] kind of keeping us focused on, um, e each other. but then understanding like the, what is the wedge that's being deployed against us and like the news cycle. So anytime that you're seeing these headlines of like, you know, pitting, you know, black people, black Americans against Latino immigrants or, you know, immigrant communities against indigenous or, or white working class against everyone else, that, that, that is a part of the machine to keep you distracted, to keep you focusing on each other instead of like, what is actually happening above.
Because the biggest power that we have is if all of us were to come together to fight all of that, and the more that they can just drop something in the media, in news, in social, what have you, to keep us like squirreling like, uh, and like, uh, my pronouns and this, and it's like that's what's going to keep us in this situation.
But us rising up together because we are. Stronger together. There are numbers, uh, we're stronger in these numbers. You know, that's essentially the rub and [01:08:00] like just paying attention and not giving into that and questioning that. Anytime you get, if you have a friend that's like saying a few things, you know, ask questions about that, like, oh, what, what, but what about this?
Or what about that? Or where did you get that rhetoric from? Might cause some fights. Might cause the ends of some relationships, but at the end of the day, this is still in the name of saving our humanity.
Chris: So I have some suggestions on what to do about it as well. First read, read some history. If you're interested in this, read some history. Uh, you'll learn way more on the stuff we're talking about than what we glanced over. Um. But that's if you're academic and you really wanna know a ton about it, I don't think you need to read history.
Um, if you don't want to know more about that background, if you, if you buy into all this. The second is immerse yourself in different cultures. Right? Um, it, it just, it's so wonderful. It's not always gonna work out. I'm gonna give you an example. [01:09:00] So, uh, my oldest daughter, her birthday was in February, and we always like, go out to dinner with, you know, a family member gets to pick where to go.
And she was like, let's go eat at this Ethiopian restaurant in Minneapolis. Because Minneapolis in February was a very, very difficult place for immigrants, especially people of color. Uh, and so a lot of restaurants were hurting. People, workers weren't coming, people weren't showing up. Uh, and this was a place that, that our daughter had gone to before and she's like, they're really kind of hurting for, for business.
When we were there, we were the only people there, as an example on a Sunday night, I think. Um, but it was a great experience. I never had Ethiopian food. I didn't like all of it, but I liked some of it and it, but it was just the experience. We loved the experience and the people that were [01:10:00] working there were super friendly and they came out and talked to us and kind of explain things.
So I just, I just really encouraged people to get out your, get outta your comfort zone. Um, and then the last thing I would say is if you care about this issue. Immigration, talk to your politicians, talk to your Congress people, your senators, um, because this is not just a right wing deal, right? We, we, we are definitely focused on Donald Trump because he is acting in the most heinous ways.
But I will say again, the establishment of the Democratic party has not helped themselves. Uh, because what they tend to do is they tend to try to win the middle and move to the right. And they did this in 2024 and kind of just went like, yeah, immigration's a problem. We agree people don't. I don't know if everybody remembers that There was actual bill that was being ready to [01:11:00] be passed a bipartisan bill under Joe Biden that would've addressed any kind of illegal immigration issues.
And Trump told the, the house Republicans to not pass it because he wanted that as a, as a major tenant of his, of his run. And so it didn't pass, but the Democrats were right there saying, yes, this is a problem. We need to fix it. Instead of standing up for immigration and saying, immigrants are amazing.
They're an important part of this country. Do we need to solve for illegal immigration? Sure, we need to, we always need to deal with that, but let's not lose sight of the real thing here. Instead, they just went right to the, the right side of the thing, said, yeah, this is a big problem. It's, it's a big platform and blah, blah, blah.
Bad just. Another example of no, stand up for what you believe in. Don't fall into that trap. So if you've got a Congress person or a senator who's up for [01:12:00] election and you care about this, ask 'em where they stand on this stuff. See what they say. Anything you want to add?
Desiree: And then vote with You're conscious in that if they're not standing up for what you believe in, then. You know, vote a different way. Um, but yeah, mostly just, we're not going to fix all of this, but just take it upon yourself to see, you know, what's actually behind that narrative that's being, that's being pushed, has been pushed our entire lives, that it's not based on anything that is really true about, you know, what we can or should be.
Chris: So thus wraps our series on American myths. I feel like we're gonna come back to this. Would love people. Would love people to submit suggestions on other myths, American or otherwise. We could be MythBusters here. We can do that every once in a while. I feel like after [01:13:00] this deep series though, we're gonna have to like, we're gonna have to talk about, I can't even believe we have to talk about this today.
And it's going to be about, I don't know, the Super Bowl or something can say, we're gonna have to come, come up with something that's more fun. Is there such a thing? Or come up with something. If you got a suggestion, let us know. As always, let us know. Uh. We'd love to hear from all of you about what you like, what you don't like, uh, and all of that.
So as we wrap, Des, thank you as always. Julia Bevelo, our producer. Thank you for all the work that you're doing. All of you, thank you for joining us. We hope this helped you cope with, uh, what I think I called was the poo poo world that we're living in. In many ways it's poo poo. It's not all poo poo. It's almost summer.
It's beautiful outside. No more snow for where I live. Uh, so, uh, [01:14:00] but in this way hopefully it, this, this helped you cope a little bit. Please like and subscribe to the show wherever you watch or listen to your podcasts and give us those five stars on Apple Podcasts because that lifts our profile. We like our profile to be lifted because then more people can hear us, then more people know that we're out there.
Also, visit baring two 80 seven.com and learn more about, uh, our organization and what we're doing to help people fight the good fight to make the world a better place and find more content. You can also follow me on substack. I am Chris Velo and on behalf of, I'm not even supposed to be here today and bearing 2 87.
Thank you for listening. We will see you next time. Bye-bye.