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The Effective Lawyer teaches ambitious trial lawyers how to grow their skills and create a prosperous law firm. Using lessons learned by accomplished attorneys from around the country, we discuss lessons learned through their trials and tribulations. Our discussions cover a vast range of topics sought out by attorneys looking for advice, from depositions to how to market your law firm.
The show is hosted by Jack Zinda, Founder and Senior Trial Lawyer at Zinda Law Group. In less than 15 years, Jack and his team have grown Zinda Law Group from 3 attorneys to over 30, spanning several states and handling a variety of personal injury cases from gas explosions to truck accidents.
Jack and his guests share their knowledge and skills that they’ve acquired through the process of building one of the most successful plaintiff’s law firms in the country.
In each show we cover a new topic that an ambitious attorney would want to better understand, while providing practical skills to improve their legal practice.
For more information, visit https://www.zdfirm.com/the-effective-lawyer
Welcome to the effective lawyer,
a podcast for ambitious attorneys
who want to improve their practice.
My name is Jack Zinda,
and I'll be your host.
Hi, and welcome to another episode
of the Effective Lawyer podcast.
I'm your host, Jack Zinda.
And today I want to talk to you about how
to identify Cases that your firm wants
to sign up in a really efficient manner.
You know, if your firm is like mine, you
probably get lots of potential client
calls And maybe dozens, if not hundreds,
are cases that you may not want to take,
and Try to figure out a process that
you can efficiently identify good cases,
figure out how to take them, and then
giving yourself space and time to make
sure you don't miss out on a great case.
So today, I wanna talk to you about what
our firm's process is to, 1, evaluate
strong cases, and then what steps you
take to ensure that it's a good case, And
you lock it in and you maximize value.
So, all right, let's set the stage.
You are in your office, you get
a call, And someone says, hey,
we have this call on line 1.
Do you wanna talk to them?
It's a potential client.
What a lot of firms do is just
that call goes directly To the
attorney or the paralegal without
any initial screening of the case.
That can be problematic
for several reasons.
1, it It could be a case
you definitely don't want.
It may not be a practice area
that you handle and that can cost
you a lot of time to your day.
Every interruption that you have,
Studies have shown take about 15 minutes
out, not to mention the time that
you're on the phone with the client,
you've gotten distracted and you're
not sure, You know, how to get back
on track to what you're doing before.
So the first suggestion I have is you want
to have at least an initial gatekeeper,
If not a full time intake specialist,
do the initial screening of your cases.
And you want to give them a script
with a checklist of things they want
to check To and see if it's a good
case that you wanna pass along to you.
And there's several setups
that I've seen work.
When my firm first started, we
didn't have the resource is to
have a full time intake specialist.
So we gave the receptionist a
script of questions we wanted them
to ask for any potential client.
It was very brief because they didn't
have enough Time and it could roll
over and go to an answering service,
which we didn't wanna have happen.
The other thing that you could have
Someone do is then have a full time intake
specialist that that is all they're doing
is screening intake calls and they can
actually get really at identifying what
cases you want and what cases you don't.
Or you could have a situation where it
goes directly to you as the attorney
or to your paralegal to do the
screening and then closing on the case.
Where to sign the case up?
That's an important question.
You can either do it on the phone, Via
video conference or an in person meeting.
Before COVID, we were adamant of having
all of our client meetings in person.
That Still is the most effective
way to both evaluate your client
and to get the case signed up.
Since we, post COVID, we have moved
to a process where We will try to
sign the client up over the phone.
If that doesn't work, we will move to
a video conference, and then we wanna
meet with the client in the first 30
days of signing the case which it gives
us some time to evaluate, decide if we
wanna invest the resources in flying
somewhere to meet with someone in person.
Okay.
So we've talked a little
bit about the process.
A couple of other things you're gonna
want to have with this are scripts
that tell your intake person, your
receptionist, or your paralegal what To
go through some sort of form to fill out.
And, of course, there's software
programs that can do this.
They're called CRMs.
Or you can make it as simple
as a spreadsheet or a Word doc
That you have the person do.
You wanna make sure that it's quick
and efficient because they need to
get through the things very fast.
And then you want to go through a
decision tree that you give them
on whether or not they're going to
sign the case and what steps and
actions they want to take to do that.
Now we've talked about some of
the the elements you need to have
an effective sign up process.
Now let's talk about how you
evaluate the case, Because you're
not gonna know all the facts that
come in with that initial call.
Let's say it's a wrongful death
case and the person calling
you has no idea what happened.
Let's say you can't get a good read on the
client if you think they are trustworthy
or you're not sure how hurt they are.
And you also don't want to lose out
of the case and you wanna make sure
they don't go hire another law firm
if there's a delay in signing it up.
So the pillars that we evaluate
in a case, there's 3 of them.
3 big buckets.
The first is liability.
Okay.
Who was at fault For what happened,
and can you meet can you meet
your legal burden of proof?
The second is damages.
Do you have enough harm in order
to Justify taking the case on.
And the third is source of recovery.
Who's going to pay for
the harm if it happened?
And as As most of you know, that's almost
always going to be an insurance company.
So on liability, you wanna have the
elements of each cause of action
that you Commonly take whether
it's premises trucking cases,
motor vehicle, workplace injury.
I would have those elements handy So
you can quickly see if the facts meet
your case, especially if you don't
practice personal injury law regularly.
But even if you do, it's good to have
it for your staff so they can help
evaluate what the liability facts are.
The second damages, you wanna figure
out what is your minimum threshold for
a case you're going to handle, and you
wanna make that a black and white rule.
And if you go below that
threshold, you wanna put that
case in the pro bono category.
That's important.
I see a lot of law firms struggle,
Especially newer attorneys would
take in on a lot of bad cases that
they're never gonna get paid on, or
they're not gonna get paid enough
to justify their hourly rate.
Remember, you don't
have to take every case.
You need to figure out what your
hourly rate you want it to be and work
on the cases that you wanna work on.
Now early in your career, you may have
to take cases that you may not wanna
take later on, but something I've done
each and every year is address what
is our floor And we've raised that
up consistently each and every year.
We're currently at a hundred thousand
dollars as the minimum our most
junior lawyers should take on a case.
And we do the same things with
our more senior attorneys, only
their threshold is much higher.
For example, a senior attorney is
gonna be something, you know, in
the 7 figure range is the minimum we
want them to take for their cases.
So you're not going to
know all these things.
You want to start off by Talking to the
client, introducing yourself and say find
out what happened and why they're calling.
Now you want to talk slowly.
You want to be empathetic and you want
to make sure you're talking to them like
a human being and not talking to them
like an attorney or someone who doesn't
care about their case, or is only worried
about Getting them to sign a document.
It might go something like this.
Hey, this is Jack Zinda.
I'm the partner at Zinda Law Group.
I understand you've been
through something terrible.
I am I'm so sorry to hear that.
Why don't you tell me a
little bit about your case?
So you wanna find out their
facts about what happened.
And I'd also make it a point
to ask something personal
about themselves And then share
something personal about yourself.
This is how we connect as human beings.
They'll stop seeing you as a lawyer
and they'll stop Seeing you as a
person that they can relate to.
Kids are great.
If they're a coach, sports, if they're a
teacher, what they do for a living, if it
relates to anything you've done in your
past, Geographic, you know, location.
But actually I have a list.
I don't do this anymore, but I
used to have a list of these things
and I would practice it before the
call So I knew what to talk about.
Now, if you are somebody who gets nervous
easily or you're a junior lawyer and
you're worried you're going to talk
too fast, Practice with a recorder.
Imagine you're somebody who
you admire and try to emulate
the way they talk to clients.
Confidence you wanna fake
it until you make it.
And if you fake it enough, you'll
eventually have the confidence you need
to convince a client to hire your firm.
If you talk quickly, if you try to
rush the process, they're going to get
suspicious and they're going to think
you're not a good lawyer or you don't
have their best interests at heart.
If you'd like a copy of any of the
things you heard about here today or
to set up a time to talk 1 about 1 of
our team members about a case please
go to Zinda Law dot io, and we have
amazing resources, downloads, guides,
And you can set up a time to talk to us
if you wanna talk about how we handle
things or any case in particular.
So I'll start off by finding out what
happened leading up to the wreck in
just a narrative format, asking what
happened next, What happened next?
What happened next?
And then I go through the
wreck and then to where we are
today covering their treatment.
At this point, I'm gonna know if
I want the case or not based on
the facts that I've been given.
If I don't want the case, I'm still
going to be very polite to them.
I'm trying to make them a
referral source in the future.
I'm going to let them down easily.
Never blame the client
for not taking the case.
You wanna talk about the way the law set
up may not be fair or the circumstances
may or may not be right, but if you blame
them, they're gonna be upset with you.
And I've actually gotten referrals from
clients that I've not Taken several times.
That's because I'm empathetic.
I care about them.
I give them some helpful advice,
maybe on property damage or
something that I can help them with.
So I find out what happens and
I decide it's a case I want.
Okay?
Now I'm gonna go through my
background And I'm gonna have some
talking points that make me seem
like the best lawyer on the planet.
Now I know that sounds very arrogant.
I'm I'm sure there's Lawyers that
are way better than me, but when
it comes to sales, you have to come
across as extremely confident in your
abilities without sounding like a jerk.
And I do this by listing any
awards I've gotten, law school
I went to, cases I've worked on.
I also do that for the law firm,
Talk about other attorneys that we
have, successes they've had without
sounding really braggadocious about it.
Then we're gonna go through the
Contract itself and explain how
these cases work big picture and then
drill down into specific parts of the
contract such as what the percentage
fee is what the case expenses are.
If you're in a jurisdiction where
there's a lot of people cutting their
fees or advertising really cut rate,
You won't be prepared to address
that, explain why your firm's better.
And if it's something where you
feel like you should cut the fee,
just be prepared to do that so
you can get the person signed up.
Your backup goal, if you don't get them
signed up, is to get a next appointment
to talk about their case further.
If that's the case, you want to make sure
that you inoculate yourself from other
lawyers taking your case by saying why
your firm's different and distinguishing
yourself from other law firms.
Don't bad mouth Firms, but we'll talk
about in general, you know, there's
some firms that are high volume, some
firms where you won't actually talk
to a lawyer, Some firms that aren't
used to handling trucking cases.
So I'm making them think about the
things they'd wanna ask those other
law firms if they're shopping around.
Then I may offer to do some
free work before they even hire.
Say, hey, would it be okay if I got the
crash report and started looking into this
to decide, is this a case That we could
help you with so you've got a head start.
And if you don't hire us, no problem.
I'll be happy to share
whatever I gather with you.
And then I might send the crash
report to the client, Show them some
information we gather to show them that
how good we are, how responsive we are.
Make sure you set a follow-up
appointment with a date and time that's
Pretty recent in decision making.
If they're not the decision makers
make sure that next person on
the call with you is with you.
Sometimes it's a spouse.
Sometimes it's a parent, even with adults.
Sometimes it's a sibling.
But you wanna make sure
they're on the next call.
Okay.
Here we are.
So we got it signed up.
We locked the client in.
They love us.
They're ready to rock and roll,
But your work is not done.
You still don't know if you have a case.
Okay?
At our firm, we have a phase in the
case we call the investigation stage.
So in the investigation stage we
want to establish for sure that
this is a case we want and we
give ourselves 14 days to do it.
Okay.
In some circumstances it can take
longer than that, but overall 14
days is what we're shooting for.
That staging includes 3 things.
First, Proving liability
without your client's testimony.
Doesn't necessarily
have to be crash report.
It could be witnesses.
It could be circumstantial evidence,
But you need to have substantive
evidence that the case happened
the way the client said it did.
Number 2, You want to make sure
you fully evaluate the client,
find out their background, their
histories, or anything that's going
to prevent you from settling the case.
We had a case recently where 1 of
our clients had a big Lien that we
were not aware of the client was
hoping by keeping it from us that
we may not have to address it.
Well, it came time to settle the tax lien
of course comes up because we always do a
search for those things and the client is
refusing to move forward with resolving
it because The money would go to the IRS.
Now we've done a whole bunch of free work.
We got them actually an incredible
result And they don't wanna do anything
because the net they're not gonna
get very much money in their pocket.
And unfortunately, IRS is 1 of those
issues where it's very difficult
to get them to Cut it back so
you can give money to the client.
So you want to make sure you like the
client, you think they're a good fit.
You do background research on them.
Next, you want to see if the
damages meet your minimum threshold.
Sometimes people come in because
They are upset about property damage.
They need a rental car.
They just have questions and
they're not always Hurt as bad as
you think they are in order for
them to justify having a case.
I'm a real big believer in you don't
want to Try to get people to get
treatment that, that don't, they
don't believe they're hurt or they
don't think they, they need it.
You wanna at least focus on
the clients that are truly
injured That needs your help.
You're gonna be much happier as
an attorney doing that, and the
cases are gonna be a lot easier.
1 thing I believe is our job is to tell
the truth, And the truth always comes out.
And if you look at your job that way
and your job is to present the best
version of the truth and fight for
your clients, it becomes a lot easier
because if you think the truth is not
going to be good for your case, you
may not want to take the case at all.
So we're going to figure
out how hurt the client is.
You can usually tell in the
first 2 weeks, you know, do
they need additional treatment?
Have they had follow-up appointments?
Things like that.
Next, we're gonna establish
the source of recovery.
Now this is key.
You wanna make sure that you get an
acknowledgement letter from an insurance
company saying there's insurance Coverage.
If you can't identify an insurance
company, we have a whole bunch of
tricks that we use for different
types of cases to identify insurance.
Happy to share those with anyone if
they wanna reach out send it to me.
We have, like, a checklist that
we follow-up for each type of case
to find the insurance policies.
Occasionally, You have to file a
lawsuit to do that, but most of the
time you can figure it out beforehand.
So We establish the liability that
they're harmed enough and their
source of recovery is available.
And that's 3 items that We track every
day for every case that we sign up.
We end up stepping away for, from about
half the cases that we initially sign up.
And we have an 8 percent acceptance
rate overall of potential clients.
Now that's gonna differ than most other
firms, But we know what we're good at.
We know the way we can make money,
and we've made more money every year.
We've cut back on the number of cases that
we handle or the threshold that we handle.
So don't be afraid to do that.
Don't back down and and say, oh, man.
I I really want this case.
Now when you're starting out the cases
I started out in the beginning, A lot of
them are really tough cases and I got a
good result in them, but I would not take
them now because it was a ton of work,
ton of ligation, and it was, like, real
lucky that I was able to get that outcome.
But when you're early in your career,
you may have to take cases you would
wanna take a year or 2 years from now.
But know what your caseload limit
is so you can be sure that That
you don't go over it with cases
that you don't want to resolve.
And 1 easy trick is if you take each
case, you give it a value, and just
assume I'm going to turn every case
within 1 year, That's how much in
fees you'll make the following year.
Now obviously some cases take longer, some
cases go less but that gives you a rough
idea of the amount of fees you're having.
So if you have, You know, a hundred cases
worth 5000 in fees each, that's 500000
in in potential attorneys fees you have,
which Sounds like a lot, but that's a lot
of cases to turn in 1 year and it's tough
to give each 1 individualized attention.
The other tip that you want
to keep in mind is you want to
maintain that strong relationship,
especially early on in the case.
I try to talk to my clients 3 or 4 times
in the first 2 weeks, and I actually
write down the things to remember that
make them special and that I want to
talk to them about, such as them being
a teacher, them having grandkids.
I also do all of my client
meetings by appointment only.
I know it's a little controversial, I
know some attorneys give their clients
their cell phones numbers, which I'm
not opposed to, but I think that if you
explain to the client, Hey listen, I want
to make sure when you and I are talking,
I'm focused on nothing but your case.
So I like to do meetings by appointment
only, kind of like a doctor.
And so when you call me, my legal
assistant is going to schedule a time
with us in real short fashion, maybe the
same day or the next day, To talk about
and answer whatever questions you have.
That allows you when they
call in, you're ready to go.
You have the file from you.
You reviewed where you're at, And
you don't sound foolish or like
you don't know what's going on.
I know for me personally, if I get a call
I wasn't expecting just kind of pops in,
I'm like yeah, the the status of your Card
property damages this, and you were the
person in the red light case versus I look
at the file and say, Oh, you know Jane
it looks like that your property damage
was taken care of how are you feeling
you know, how's it recovering, And ask
something about themselves personally.
And I think that it helps build
a much stronger relationship
than doing it the other way.
So to summarize a few points we
made today number 1, when you're
evaluating the case on the front
end, make sure you have some sort of
person to do the initial screening.
Make sure you have clear scripts
and clear criteria for why
you want or don't want a case.
You wanna look at liability,
damages, source recovery.
Then when you're talking to the client,
make sure you build a connection, make
sure you learn something about themselves
and make sure you practice talking slowly,
confidently, and going through their file.
Then after the case signs up, don't
be afraid to get off of it early on
if it turns into facts that you didn't
think The case was what it said it was.
And then if it's a really significant case
and, you know, we practice nationwide,
I'm going to fly out and meet the client
sometime in 2 week period as well.
I hope this was helpful.
We have all sorts of checklists
and memos and SOPs on this.
The signup stage, we have scripts.
We have checklists for the investigation
stage, investigation items we look for.
So if you're interested in any of
those things, please reach out.
Happy to share it and you know,
rising tide of resiliency.
Till next time.
Thanks.
Thanks for listening to today's
episode of The Effective Lawyer.
You can learn more about our
team and find other episodes of
our podcast at ZindaLaw dot com.
As always, we'd appreciate that you
subscribe, rate, and review the pod.
Thanks.