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A show about cameras, creativity, and the weird shit your brains do while you're trying to make something.
Together, we're exploring photography for all levels — asking the silly questions, sharing the expert knowledge, and digging into what it actually takes to grow as a human being and as an artist.
S02 E07: Focus on Being Intentional
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Casey (she/her): And so I put the bunny on the floor and framed up a picture pretty close, I think at 24 millimeters, snapped the shot, then I backed up, and then I framed it the same. I want the bunny in just, like, the bottom corner, and I wanna see what happens.
And I was like, "Goddammit, this is just a crochet bunny sitting on my floor, and this photo looks, dramatic and stunning and, interesting," I was like, "Why, why am I a year into this and I'm just getting this one pointed out to me? Damn it."
[00:00:55] Photos Aren’t Always What They Seem
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Amy (she/her): One of the things I remember from being a beginner photographer was finding out that photos weren't always what they seemed. there was a lot more going on around the frame that wasn't included or was cropped out or wasn't captured in the first place to make those photos happen. And I- Casey, I think that's something you've talked about, too.
Casey (she/her): I've been shocked the more I learn about the more that's happening that you never see in the final image.
Amy (she/her): Is there a particular moment where you, that you remember that really stands out? kind of that epiphany moment
Casey (she/her): I think it's happened twice. One in, bird photography when you started telling me about, shoots with, Alan and, realizing he actually, like, teaches workshops on, setting up perches to set up for bringing birds in. "Oh, that makes so much sense." Also never would've thought of it. So that was, like, the first
Amy (she/her): उहं।
Casey (she/her): it. And then in dogs, um, there was actually, it was during one of your calls, and we were looking at a picture of a dog on stairs, and I was like, "Oh, this is a great photo." And then you pulled up the raw, and there's a person feet away from the dog with the dog on leash.
I was like, "How the fuck do you do that?"Like, I, I assume there's photos where the person is, like, just outside of the crop holding a leash. That made sense to my brain. That would not have surprised me. But the whole-ass person was, like, standing right next to the dog, and that kind of blew my mind 'cause I was like, you can't just, like, heal tool and make that go away.
that was
the other one that, like, really shifted my perspective on, like, how I could set up shots or how I could work with one of my dogs who cannot be off leash at all, ever. Um, all of a sudden was
Amy (she/her): Yeah
Casey (she/her): there's so much more potential here than having well-behaved dogs that I can work
with.
Amy (she/her): Yeah. But it takes planning, right? It, you have to, like, you can't just put your camera to your face and take the photo.
Casey (she/her): Yes.
Amy (she/her): have to, like, think about it ahead of time. and I think that, to me, that intentionality, separates people who have a hobby taking pictures and people who are a little more serious about photography.
It d- it doesn't sep- separate a photographer from a non-photographer. Anybody who takes a picture is a photographer. To me, that's kind of where you start to make the break of I'm just gonna take pictures or I wanna get good at this. And then you have to really start thinking about how do I set this up or how do I make sure the conditions are the best for what I'm trying to do?
How do I make sure that my camera is set up, properly so that I capture the best, photo that I can? and that doesn't mean you can't have happy accidents. Accidents and, and weird shit happens all the time,
Casey (she/her): Right
Amy (she/her): going into it expecting that it's gonna just happen on its own is one of those misconceptions that I see a lot in beginning photographers and even experienced ones
I recently went on a hike, took some photos, you critiqued one of the photos, and it made me realize something I put the dogs on this ledge, and I was looking at it after, I'm like, it just feels like a photo you would take with your iPhone.
Casey (she/her): Like, I couldn't figure out what felt wrong about it. And then after you and I talked, I was like, "Oh, I'm at the wrong angle." You can see too much of the ground, like, behind the dogs. I need to get lower so I'm seeing actually just the lip of it and it was just one of these ones where, all of a sudden I was like, "Oh, here's what clicked.
It's not just take the photo and fix it in post. It's I need to be more aware of my angle. I need to be lower down in this one. I need to be further back and, you know, longer focal." Uh, all these other things clicked, and I was like, now this makes more sense."
Amy (she/her): I remember that was just a recent session
and
conversation because it got into a lot of that intentionality and nuance that is kind of that second layer of awareness. You know, first layer of awareness of photography in terms of, of learning your foundation skills, you know, aperture, ISO, shutter speed.
Casey (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Amy (she/her): and, you know, you get those under control, and then you can kind of spiral to the next layer of, of intentionality. I asked you, I said, "Tell me what you know about how to make blur in the background," 'cause that was another thing we were talking about.
Casey (she/her): yeah.
Amy (she/her): um, all you knew was aperture, and that's where everybody starts.
That's all I knew for a really long time. And then I got a longer lens. I w- I was shooting agility with a 70-200, and then I graduated... Graduated makes it sound like I officially was...
Casey (she/her): Right
Amy (she/her): 300 millimeter lens was bestowed upon me, and that is not the case. Um, but I did go to a longer lens with agility, and all of a sudden my backgrounds were prettier.
They're still cluttered because that's just the way it is at an, an event. But I adored those photos so much more because the, the, there was so much more s- uh, visual separation between the dog and the background.
Casey (she/her): Yeah
Amy (she/her): I had to think about my shots differently because you can, you can take a picture of a dog that's fairly close to you with a 70-200.
You put a 300 on and you take a picture of a jump that's only, you know, 20 feet away, and suddenly all you're getting is, like, eyelashes. So
Casey (she/her): Yeah, other problems arise.
Amy (she/her): Other problems occur. But that, that idea of, of a longer lens gives me more blur in the background, I haven't changed my aperture. A 2.8 or an F4 on 200 millimeters is very different look to 300 millimeters at F2.8 or F4.
Casey (she/her): Yeah
Amy (she/her): and so I just kinda gradually became aware of that.
And then when I started teaching, I realized, oh, I- these are things I need to teach 'cause,
Casey (she/her): Yeah, it's funny 'cause
Amy (she/her): I haven't
Casey (she/her): focal length talked about. Like, I've watched plenty of videos. I have an entire Instagram feed that is nothing but photography stuff, and like nobody's talking about focal length. And so after that, actually I think while we were still on the call, I might have flipped my camera off 'cause
Amy (she/her): Yeah. Oh
Casey (she/her): I went and grabbed my camera and m- this little stuffed bunny I had, and I'm like, "Wait, I wanna see this." And so I put the bunny on the floor and framed up a picture pretty close, I think at 24 millimeters, snapped the shot, and it's a 24-105. And so then I backed up, and then I framed it the same. Like, I want the bunny in just, like, the bottom corner, and I wanna see what happens.
And I was like, "Goddammit, this is just a crochet bunny sitting on my floor, and this photo looks, like, dramatic and stunning and, like, interesting," because I backed back way up and zoomed in. I was like, "Why, why am I a year into this and I'm just getting this one pointed out to me? Damn it."
Amy (she/her): Yeah. No, that's, that is my favorite activity that I have students do. probably of everything that I teach, that moment of, holy shit, I can get more blur by a longer focal length, and holy shit, I can get more blur when I have more distance between my subject and my background.
That's the other piece you didn't test that one, but, but that's the other... That's kind of a corollary. They, they're very... In my brain, they're very intertwined. I, some people treat them very differently. I... But this is why if you shove your dog right up next to the, the pretty flower bush, um, when you're out on your walk and you try and take a picture, it just looks like, is it Homer Simpson disappearing into the, into the hedge?
That's what comes to mind. It's like, no, you gotta pull... You gotta put, like, five, six feet there between the dog and the flowers, and then the flowers will blur, your subject will be sharp, and you'll have a much better, photo. Now, not all bushes are big enough to fill the background when you put the dog that far away.
So then you've got a whole nother layer of, of thing to play with. that is my favorite compositional technique, and maybe it's because I'm always working with really long lenses. You
know, 300, 400... I love shooting agility with a 400, and I've gotten to do that a couple times this summer, and, I keep remembering why.
I love working at those long focal lengths.
Casey (she/her): to the intentionality thing, there's so many parts and pieces to think about I've been so focused on shooting in manual and figuring that out and getting things in focus that like I kind of forgot or ignored everything else,
all of a sudden now I'm like, "Oh, now I have to think about the distance between me and the dog, the dog and the background,
Amy (she/her): Photography is complicated,
Casey (she/her): Yeah
Amy (she/her): that's why it's so appealing to just have this fantasy that if I have a good camera or any camera, frankly, and I put it up and I take a picture of, of what I see in front of me, it's gonna represent exactly my experience of this moment, and that's not, just not the case.
I always admire photography where I can see the intentionality. it's kind of a combination of you thought about where you were gonna take the photo, what you were taking the photo of. You thought about how to set up your camera, how to capture good detail in the image, and then you thought about how to post-process it to enhance that whole experience so that you're, you're communicating with your viewer.
[00:10:01] Build the Photo From the Background
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Amy (she/her): Alan Murphy, talks about building a photo from the background to the foreground. So you don't start with your subject. You start with what does my background look like, and what is important in the background that I wanna include, or what's distracting that I wanna remove.
So rather than just going, "Ah, fuck it, I'm just gonna take the photo. Here's my dog and, and I don't care that there's a trash bin in the background,"
Casey (she/her): Right.
Amy (she/her): about 'cause seriously, you get home and you go, "Where the fuck did that trash can come from? I don't remember it there."
getting back to building a photo from the background, I will do that at an agility trial as much as I can. Like I will scoot left and right to see if I can clear up something in the background. I will also go to the other side of the ring and move signs around, if I need to.
Or if it's signage that tells what the event is and I can scoot it one way or another so that it ends up in the photo as, a supporting character so to speak.
Casey (she/her): Right
Amy (she/her): or if there's somebody there who is, gonna be setting bars and they're in my frame, I approach it as I know you don't wanna be in every photo I'm taking of this jump, so let's talk to the judge and see if we can maybe scoot you five feet one direction or the other so that you're not in every photo on this course.
Casey (she/her): Right.
Amy (she/her): Um, and usually they're really open to that surprisingly. No, not surprisingly.
Casey (she/her): I really
Amy (she/her): So
Casey (she/her): through that
Amy (she/her): really, yeah. Wow, I just didn't even think about... Yeah, I'm thinking about it
So building it from the background is, is one way to really be intentional about how you're putting this shot together. and it's one of my favorite things that, that I've ever learned from Alan.
Casey (she/her): Yeah, I like that.
Amy (she/her): Yeah.
Casey (she/her): like, in my brain kind of clicked I'm struggling at remembering to look around the frame, around the dog. I get focused on, like, well, the picture is of the subject, I should be looking at the subject and building around the subject.
But that makes more sense to actually, starting from the background and, like, building this in layers versus as an entire image. I'm used to thinking about certain types of work in layers, and so that makes a lot of sense in my brain
thinking about layers also then translates into the intentionality of not only the shot, but then also being ready for post-processing when that is the type of edits you know you need with
Amy (she/her): So one of the things that I see frequently on, on social media these days are, behind-the-scenes videos, and I think this is the way that photographers try and make their process more transparent and show a little more of a connection between what they're doing and what the, the final photo is.
is that something you've actually done or just, or you're still in the planning stages?
Casey (she/her): I have some footage that I actually am working on It is something I wanna do on a regular basis, and I think works better in the studio setting than probably a lot of styles of photography, is having a second video camera,
'Cause I love the contrast of, like, chaos. 'Cause my studio sessions, like, things are moving, dogs are jumping, treats are being thrown. Most dogs that I've worked with so far rarely actually sit still and look at me for any amount of time. And so there is this conception, at least with the studio stuff of "Well, my dog doesn't know how to sit and stay.
I'm like, "Great, I wanna show you that that doesn't matter. I'm just starting to play with this, there's the added layer of having to remember I have the other camera, and that it's set up and running.
And then as I did the last time, making sure it's pointed the right direction or that I actually hit the start button I thought I hit record, and had this wonderful little session And I turned around and I had not hit the record button hard enough, and it was not recording.
Amy (she/her): "Ugh." So, there is that element to my workflow, but I love the behind the scenes and it's
Yeah
Casey (she/her): wanna do a lot of as I have more sessions and build out my content for the studio.
Amy (she/her): I will tell you what my favorite kind of behind the scenes videos are, are the people who do the kind of the B-roll stuff where they're just walking through the woods or they're drinking their coffee, but
Then they have a second camera set up that shows them setting up the camera, doing their little walk, and then running back to grab the camera, and then setting it up again. The behind the scenes of the behind the scenes,
Casey (she/her): Yo.
Yeah, I Love
Amy (she/her): those.
Like, don't ever stop doing those. Those are my favorite,
Casey (she/her): I was talking to my mom last week, and I mentioned like this realization that you can Photoshop leashes out or be able to remove whole ass people. And she was like, "Well, that kind of takes the magic out of it.
I thought these were just good dogs." And like she doesn't like knowing how different the before and after could be. There is something to be said for the people who don't wanna know that,
Amy (she/her): as you're talking about that I'm thinking I like participating in things that have a behind the scenes. Does that make sense? Like, I like the fact that when I watch the ESPN filmed version of the events that I shoot, I'm like, I- that's not at all how it looks to me.
Casey (she/her): Oh. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I see what
you're saying.
Amy (she/her): there is so much if you're there, you can see all the cameras.
you see all the setup, you see them testing the big boom camera.
so I like that kind of behind the scenes, but that's not watching it from my phone. It's, it's like being involved in it,
Casey (she/her): Right.
Amy (she/her):
[00:15:23] Sometimes You Pay for the Opportunity
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Amy (she/her): so in an effort to get us back to the theme of today's podcast, I wanna talk about intentionality with... setting up an experience, and even paying for it so that you can get the kinds of shots that you want.
So in July, there's an air show that's about an hour away from me in Duluth, and they offer, early access for photographers, Like, you can have a, a really nice camera.
You can have your cellphone. And so, rather than trying to get, pictures with masses of people you get early access,
Usually what I will do is I'll trail behind, and I'll wait for everybody else to get their pictures and leave, and I'll have planned out what shots do I want, and I'll take them. And I can do it fairly quickly because I've taken the time to think about how do I wanna photograph this plane, which is not something I'm very good at yet.
It's just, that is truly for fun, but I, I do enjoy it. I think they're cool machines.
Casey (she/her): Yeah
Amy (she/her): and so I'll quick grab my shots and then catch up with the rest of the group. basically doubles the, the amount of money that I have to spend to get in.
But it's worth it because there are fewer people. It's early. The light's better.
Casey (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Amy (she/her): closer.
you can't get that, during the, the regular hours.
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): workshops. This is where I definitely go all in on spending the money.
Casey (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Amy (she/her): workshops. it's always been worth, even if the weather has been less than perfect, to get the access
That's part of my intentionally, how I intentionally approach, um, the bird photography that I do. I will go on, on field trips that are meant for birders, and there is a big difference between a birder and a bird photographer, and we could have that conversation.
I use those as scouting trips so I know where the good places are. So I've done that in the Tetons, I've done that even here locally.
I live, by the Sax-Zim Bog, which is a world-famous birding area
I know all the places to go look for certain species.
It's not a guarantee you're gonna see it, when I think about wildlife photography, the photos don't tell you the kind of preparation work that the photographer did to get that shot.
You know, were they sitting in a blind for four hours before the bird landed on the perch that they had prepared?
I am willing to pay for access and for early entry and for fewer people,
Casey (she/her): Yeah
Amy (she/her): if I know that that's gonna give me a better shot
Casey (she/her): Yeah. my goal for, like, 2027 is to get into doing some more of that kind of stuff I've been seeing some behind the scenes videos Nicole Begley is in France this last week running a, dog and horse, workshop. the learning opportunity of we've got animals, we've got a great location, we've got somebody who can help you see why and how to set up the shot.
Everybody gets a chance to take the shot. Um, I've... So a couple of the photos I've seen come out of the section where they were working with horses are just stunning, it's
Amy (she/her): I bet
Casey (she/her): where you have access to that because you paid a lot of money to make sure that somebody knew where the horses would be along the beach.
I'm absolutely on board with paying for access to certain opportunities for being closer, getting there earlier, having less people around, all of that kind of stuff for sure.
Amy (she/her): I have encountered some resistance to, to this idea of the intentionality behind photography, of it takes away something from the experience, it takes away something from the, the photo.
it feels performative. I can understand that argument that, no, I just wanna capture what I see and what happens and what spontaneously, you know, appears in front of me. And
there's, there's totally a place for that.
but intentionality also doesn't guarantee you anything. Um, I alluded to that a little bit with the bird stuff, where Alan has set up the most beautiful perch, and the sun has just c- broken up above the horizon, and the light on the perch is, like, this exquisite, warm, golden color.
And the birds are like, "Nah, I'm still sleeping. I'll see you in half an hour." And by then, you know, now we've got just more average light. I have photographed perches in that beautiful light just because I'm like, "Oh, where's the bird? I need a bird on here.
Casey (she/her): Right?
Amy (she/her): This is so pretty."
Casey (she/her): I need something out of this.
Amy (she/her): Yeah. I need something out of it. So yeah, Being intentional isn't a guarantee of results.
Casey (she/her): Yeah
Amy (she/her): But for me, I find that I get better results if I'm intentional about approaching what I'm trying to do
[00:19:40] Sometimes the Intention Is Just to Be There
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Casey (she/her): I'm realizing That photography takes a lot more intentionality than I thought. The styles I like, the portraits I like, that takes paying attention to all sorts of things. I'm definitely not gonna get the shot that I'm envisioning if I don't take the time make sure the camera's set right, to think about the backdrop, to, to be intentional about the process, and that... Yeah, so I'm, I'm realizing there's way more intentionality than I ever thought there was to photography. And the flip side of that is I'm also holding space for sometimes a photo is just a photo. My husband and I went to the beach this weekend, and I took the camera with me, and at one point we were watching, like, these massive seagulls. I've seen seagulls in my life. These, these guys were honking big. And then, like, there was a couple osprey, there was dolphins out in the water.
And, like, all of the photos are objectively bad. And as I was taking some of them and I was showing my husband something we were talking about, I'm like, "You know what? I'm from the Pacific Northwest, we don't get dolphin photos. I don't care if they're good, they're for me. I was in the moment, I captured the shot, like you were saying. Is that, like, realizing there's a time and a place for both. Sometimes want the picture for me. Sometimes I wanna set up the photo because I'm trying to be a photographer, quote-unquote, you know?
And so,
Amy (she/her): Right
Casey (she/her): that, like, stepping one step back from the intentionality of setting up the photo, sometimes the intention is, am I here to enjoy the moment? Do I even take the camera with me or do I just take my cellphone camera? Am I taking this picture trying to make something of it? Am I taking this picture just for me?
Is like the intentionality can happen before you even pick up the
Amy (she/her): Mm-hmm. the intentionality of the moment rather than the intentionality of, of what kind of a photo you want. Absolutely.
Casey (she/her): yeah
Amy (she/her): I, for me, what intentionality does is it builds muscle memory for being ready when things happen that I don't anticipate. So I'm much more likely to get those spontaneous things.
I am much more likely to capture something unexpected if I go out with intentionality, I'm controlling the things I can control, and I am ready for the moment, and then it's being ready for whatever happens.
Casey (she/her): Yeah
Amy (she/her): and that still is, intentionality.
Casey (she/her): I think of wildlife photography which is not something I have specifically done myself yet, but I've grown
Amy (she/her): Well, sure you have. You've,
Casey (she/her): well-
Amy (she/her): you, you've, you've got vultures in your backyard
Casey (she/her): vultures in my backyard.
I think about a photographer I follow on social media, and he was talking about how he like sat in a river for like three hours to get this particular shot of the bear catching fish out of the, out of the river. the spontaneousness of the photo that works still requires being in the right place at the right time, understanding how light works, having your fucking camera turned on, um, you know, like all these other little
Amy (she/her): Yeah。
Casey (she/her): I have some fun photos that I have taken of moose with my cellphone camera, but they're only gonna ever be so good because nothing else was intentional, nothing else was prepared for that moment. Yeah.
Amy (she/her): You weren't reading the light, you weren't w- looking at your background, you weren't doing any of that other kind of stuff.
it totally shows in a photo
Casey (she/her): Yes
Amy (she/her): much, how intentional you were about it. dappled light and people thinking they can shoot in that, I'm like, "Bitch, no."
Casey (she/her): Yes.
Amy (she/her): Put your dog either all the way in the shade or all the way in the sun, but do not use that fucking dappled light 'cause it looks like shit. It looks like shit.
Casey (she/her): Right.
this is what I'm realizing about my own photography is I thought there was element of point and shoot than there truly is. And like that last photo that I had you look at, like I came into that, I'm like, "I know this photo is wrong."
we're not discussing how to salvage this photo, I'm
not sure what the learning thing is that I'm missing to be able to do this differently in the future. and that was the conversation about
Amy (she/her): Yeah
Casey (she/her): that we had earlier. if I go back and take that exact same photo, which I'm debating doing that three-mile hike again, I think I can cut it down to a mile-and-a-half hike. I think there's a cross path. I can cheat myself down to the river. Um,
Amy (she/her): That's not cheating. That's not cheating. That's being, that's being smart.
Casey (she/her): It's like I wanna go redo a couple of these photos because there was something I didn't know, and I wanna be able to see that direct comparison. But I, in the moment, was like, "Okay, camera settings are right," the things that I knew I was intentional about, and I was like, "Great, this should work," and I took the photo.
I'm like, "Great, it didn't work. There's a whole 'nother level of stuff need to pay attention to." And you know, which is fine. It's still a cute picture of my dog. It's still a fun moment.
But I wanna take one
Amy (she/her): Oh.
Casey (she/her): no husband,
go do that hike again with this next level of information, and can I improve those photos?
Amy (she/her): what you just said about I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna find a shorter path, and I'm gonna... I know exactly what gear I need, and I'm only gonna take one dog, and I'm not gonna take my husband because this is a much more focused activity than perhaps what he wants to be involved in.
even that is a really good layer of, intentionality that I don't think gets thought about. I know last season we talked about, trying to take pictures on vacation with the family,
Casey (she/her): exactly
Amy (she/her): and this is kind of... This fits in that discussion a bit in terms of i- if you are being intentional about taking your, a photo, it may not fit well with anybody else's idea of what a hike is or what a vacation is.
And so thinking about it and, and carving out, time or going back on your own, all falls under that category of intentionality that I think isn't something everybody realizes when they first start into this. the other piece that you said, and it was kind of just in passing
About the photo that we talked about on the last call was you weren't trying to fix it. You knew it was not salvageable. You weren't trying to rescue it with post-processing.
if you love sitting at your computer and doing all of this manipulation on your photos, have at it. but I have been pretty clear about this. That is not the way I like to work, and so thinking a- through as much as I possibly can ahead of time to make sure that I can minimize my time at the computer is always my goal.
Casey (she/her): So to sum it all up today, correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think the point of everything we're saying is that it's okay if you don't want to be intentional with your photography. I personally, and I think you'll agree with me, that's going to cap kind of what you're going to get If you have intentions to grow as a photographer, whether that is in your own hobby photography or building some sort of business, you're going to have to get intentional, whether that is how you're setting up the shot or that you're okay with spending time at the computer in post. Intentionality isn't a bad thing, and it doesn't take away from the photography. It's part of what creates jaw-dropping shit that's out there, all of the decisions that went up to getting that photo. It's rare that you're just going to magically get that perfect photo. And when you can accept that and integrate that, it's gonna make you a better photographer
Amy (she/her): Well said.
All right, that's a wrap on this one. If you haven't subscribed yet, go do that wherever you're listening. It's the easiest way to make sure that you catch every episode, and then come follow us on the socials. We're The Focus Trap on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, all of it. If something today made you go, "Wait, that's me," or there's a question you want us to take on, send us an email.
You can reach us at thefocustrap@gmail.com. We'd love to hear from you. See you next week