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Stories of Wonder platforms and celebrates the real impact Deakin students, alumni, researchers and staff are making in the world, right now.
Dom: In 2016, a thunderstorm asthma
event in Melbourne left ten people
dead and thousands in hospital.
It was a dramatic outcome
that exposed a serious issue.
There was no easy way to
detect pollen in the air.
The technology at the time would
take a whole day to complete a
scan and produce a report, and
those machines were really big.
Enter Kira Morgan Hughes, a Deakin
PhD candidate who knew there had to
be a better way, so she created it.
Her invention makes it possible to
detect pollen in the air within the hour.
Oh, and it's the size of a small button.
This is the story of how a young fiction
writer who almost flunked chemistry
in high school created a device
that could potentially save lives.
Recorded on the lands of
the Wurundjeri people.
This is stories of wonder.
Kira Morgan Hughes.
Welcome.
Kira: Thanks for having me.
Dom: Tell me a little
bit about your story.
How did you get to Deakin?
Kira: Yeah, so it's a funny story.
I never saw myself originally
as wanting to be a scientist.
I actually was really into, fantasy
books and I wanted to be a writer,
but it was near the end of high school
that I got really passionate and
interested in science and decided.
Why not, study science at university?
And I heard really good things from
a lot of friends and colleagues
about, biomedical science at Deakin.
And so I put that as my first preference
and managed to get in and here I am.
Dom: Wow.
And what was the opportunity that sort
of brought you into studying science
and doing what you're doing now?
Kira: The main motivator was I had
an amazing teacher, in high school,
Tony Vallance, and he actually won
teacher of the year a couple of years
ago, which is also impressive, but he
was just so passionate about science
and it just came through in all of
the classes that I had with him.
And since then, I just decided
that's what I wanted to do.
Wow.
Dom: So in November of 2016, there was a
thunderstorm asthma event in Melbourne.
10 people died, thousands
were hospitalized.
How big of an issue is thunderstorm
asthma and is it worse in
Melbourne than other places?
Kira: Yeah, definitely.
So thunderstorm asthma events
are usually very rare and only
happen every couple of years.
And since 1983, when it was
first described, only about 26
events have ever been recorded.
But eleven of those occurred in Australia,
seven of which were in Melbourne,
and usually not at the scale that we
saw of the 2016 event in Melbourne.
But we were so unprepared for
it because we never realized
it could get to the scale.
That it could be.
And unfortunately, people died from it.
The onset of symptoms can happen
in such a short amount of time.
Ambulances were delayed by hours,
hospitals were overrun, and we hope that,
the research that we're doing now will
help prevent that from happening again.
Dom: Yeah.
What kind of led up to that
2016 event being so bad?
what were the elements
that contributed to that?
Kira: Yeah.
We've done a lot of research into
trying to figure out exactly why it
happened, and the main trigger that
we've discovered is grass pollen.
Grass pollen is one of the most prominent
airborne allergens we have here in
Australia, and it has a really unique
characteristic where it can actually burst
almost like a balloon and rupture when
there's a lot of moisture in the air.
Or even from, mechanical shock if
it breaks against something and
even from lightning strikes as well.
And what happens with these pollen grains
is usually they get stuck in your upper
airways, like in your nose and throat.
It causes your really
typical hay fever symptoms.
But when they're burst open, they release
these really tiny microscopic particles.
And because they're so small,
they get really deep in your
airways into your lungs.
And that's what causes these really
severe asthma attacks that are typical
of thunderstorm asthma, and that's what
we believe happened during the 2016
event because almost a hundred percent
of people that were hospitalized tested
positive for grass, pollen, sensitisation.
Dom: Wow.
Speaking of things that are really, small.
What's this?
is this a pencil sharpener?
Has someone dropped a button
battery from a remote here?
What are we looking at here?
Kira?
Kira: Yeah, so this is the basis
of the real time sensor that
I've developed as part of my PhD.
Dom: Wow.
So how does it work and can
you detect pollen with this?
Is that what this is about?
Kira: Yeah, so basically how it works
is a combination of this sensor and
a lot of chemistry involved as well.
So how it works is on top of these
little gold sensors, I attach
a bunch of chemicals to it that
can help detect specific, pollen
or other allergens in the air.
And when we expose the sensor to the air,
if there's pollen, it will attach to it
and it will send out a signal that we can
detect based on how much mass is attached.
So if there's a lot of pollen
in the air that attached to it,
it sends out a stronger signal.
And that signal can be
detected in less than one hour.
So we can not only tell that there's
pollen in the air in less than one hour,
we can tell how much there is as well.
Dom: Wow.
Less than an hour.
How long did it take before to do this and
were the machines like small like this?
Kira: No, They're very big actually.
They're so big that we have to
house them on top of a building.
Dom: On top of a building.
Kira: On top of a building.
Dom: How big are we talking here?
Kira: So the machines that we use
are basically like giant vacuums.
so they're, over a meter tall
and they're on a pedestal.
But some, people use other
machines that can basically
look like giant supercomputers.
Dom: Wow.
But they can , do the same kind
of thing, detect pollen within
an hour or something like that?
Kira: No, they can't, unfortunately.
the giant vacuum machines that we
use are called pollen traps, and
they've been around since the 1950s.
Dom: Since the 1950s.
Kira: Since the 1950s.
So we've been using pretty much the same
sort of model for 70 years, and they take
at least 24 hours to collect samples.
Dom: Wow.
Kira: So we used these during
the 2016 event, and we didn't
actually know that a thunderstorm
asthma event had happened until we
analysed the samples the next day.
Not only do we have to manually
collect them with these machines, we
also have to manually analyse them.
And that's been my job for the
last five years, where I have to
go up on the roof, collect the
samples, take them to a microscope
and physically count the pollen.
Dom: That's ridiculous.
That's so manual.
Is that happening all around the world?
Kira: it's happening in, different
stations around the world.
currently we operate, at least
eight sites around Victoria.
and then it's also a couple, in other
areas like in Canberra, Tasmania
and also in Perth, but we have
a lot of, sites here in Victoria
because it's such a huge issue.
Dom: Yeah, Interesting.
So why has nothing like
this been created before?
And if we had something like this in 2016,
could that have potentially saved lives?
Helped a lot of people avoid hospital?
Kira: Yeah, it, could have potentially,
one of the main, factors is
thunderstorm asthma wasn't really
seen as a big issue beforehand.
Dom: Really.
Kira: We'd had, even though we'd
had six events before the one in
2016, they were very minor in scale.
The most that were hospitalised was
maybe about a hundred people at a time.
Dom: Yeah right.
Kira: And no one had
died before that as well.
So because the asthma epidemic that we
witnessed in 2016 was so severe, the
Victorian government, put together a
whole thunderstorm, asthma, network
that, we're using now to detect
pollen in the air during spring to put
together thunderstorm asthma warnings.
but we're still relying on
such outdated technology.
So my lab has been focused on not
only better understanding why these
events occur, but also like with
my sensor, developing better ways
to actually detect pollen and the
triggers behind thunderstorm asthma.
Dom: Yeah.
Wow.
So this is a massive breakthrough really.
Kira: It's never been done before.
Dom: Yeah.
Kira: And, it's only the,
first step in the process.
Dom: Yeah.
Kira: But I hope that in a
couple of years we'll be able to
commercialise the design and might
even be able to wear one yourself.
Dom: Interesting.
So we could see this on
store shelves one day maybe.
Kira: Yeah, that would be my dream.
I'm also doing this because, myself
and a lot of people close to me,
suffer from asthma and allergies.
Personally, I have
really severe hay fever.
I actually got tested
recently by an allergist.
They did the little prick test.
Dom: Yeah.
Kira: On my skin and my arm swelled
up so much when they exposed me to
pollen, specifically grass and birch.
I actually couldn't move
my arm for two days.
Dom: Oh, wow.
Kira: Afterwards, that's
how severe the reaction was.
And I currently carry an
EpiPen for my nut allergy.
Dom: Yeah,
Kira: and it was not as bad as this
.
Dom: Wow.
Yeah.
That's saying something.
And obviously during Covid, like this
event where people, died from this
thunderstorm asthma event was in 2016.
We've had covid since then.
Have things gotten worse for
people with allergies like that?
Kira: Potentially, unfortunately
I'm not an epidemiologist, or
a virologist, so I can't answer
specifically on the impact of covid.
there have been studies that have
come out showing that long covid can
really impact your lung function.
And unfortunately you need your lungs
to breathe and that can really severely
be triggered by allergens or, very
classic things that, that cause asthma.
Could be allergens, could be
the weather, could be exercise.
And if people's lung fun functions
are diminished, that could put them
more at risk of thunderstorm asthma.
Dom: And is that something
that's affected you?
Kira: Yes, unfortunately.
I used to suffer from asthma as a
kid, but for 10 years I didn't have
to carry a Ventolin puffer on me.
I was able to exercise freely, but.
I actually got covid the week
before my PhD confirmation.
Dom: Oh no.
Kira: And it was, a very difficult
time because I got diagnosed with
post covid syndrome afterwards,
and then I got the flu.
So I was basically at home, just coughing
my lungs up for two months straight.
Dom: Wow.
Kira: It was a very difficult time
and I had to take oral steroids.
I now have two different asthma
puffers that I have to take.
Dom: Wow.
Kira: And I had like my first asthma
attack in years, shortly afterwards.
Dom: Gosh.
So you would be more susceptible to
thunderstorm asthma if it happened.
Kira: Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
Gosh.
Why is Melbourne so susceptible
to it itself as well?
It seems like it's intensely
affected by it compared to other
places in Australia and the world.
Why?
Why is that?
Kira: Yeah.
25% of all events in the world
have happened right here in this
state, which is very unfortunate.
But there's a lot of factors in play.
Australia has one of the highest
rates in the world of not only asthma,
which is about one in nine, people
in the population, but also hay fever
affects, one in four Australians
Dom: Wow.
Kira: As well.
And we've seen from, a lot of data
that's come out is that people
with hay fever are actually more
at risk than people with asthma.
It's also our climate here in Melbourne.
you probably know the
Four seasons in, one day.
Dom: Yep.
Kira: Especially, when spring rolls
around, that's when we're most
prominent to get thunderstorms.
And our climate can change very rapidly,
and especially during spring, that's
when plants release their pollen.
We get a lot of grass pollen
in the air around that time.
It usually peaks in November and every
thunderstorm master event that's happened
in Melbourne has happened during November.
So there's a lot of factors at play here.
We still don't know a hundred percent
why these events occur, so we still wanna
look into the actual environmental factors
involved, but we have a pretty good idea.
Dom: Talk to me about
a bit more about this.
Was it always going to be this small?
Did you have any prototypes
or things that, were bigger?
Because it seems so dramatic that
the old machines from the fifties
are like the size of a house almost,
and this is absolutely tiny.
Like it's, it is absolutely tiny.
Like you could lose it here on the table.
Kira: Yeah.
if, it doesn't pick up on camera, it's
basically less than two centimeters small.
It's like the size of a, gold coin.
Dom: Yeah.
Kira: And it was always our idea to make
it small because the, dream is to be
able to make something that's portable.
Because the machines that
we have now are static.
They're in set locations, and while
that's great for gathering a lot of data.
We still don't really know where
all this pollen is coming from.
And if you're not near, one of those
static locations across the state, it's
hard to tell exactly how much pollen
Dom: Yeah.
Kira: Is there.
Yeah.
So the, dream would be to, create
a product with this that you can
wear on yourself, and if you go
outside, it can warn you when
there's high pollen near you.
Dom: How do you even
create something like this?
Like how many people did it take?
How long did it take?
How much work was it?
Kira: A lot of work.
Yeah.
So I put, around two years of my PhD into
just producing the prototype for this.
And it's a lot of different like stages
that come into creating something that's
sort of an R&D development sort of stage.
The first part, which took longer
than I would've liked is just
optimising the design of it.
So we already knew that this was the type
of sensor we wanted to use, but we have
to attach chemicals to it to make it work.
So figuring out the best chemicals to use,
how much of it do we use mix of chemicals,
or do we just use one good chemical.
So a lot of testing and, trial
and error to find the most
optimal way to develop it.
Then we have to make sure it works.
Then we have to make sure it works
in different elements as well.
So not only can it detect different
amounts in the air accurately, it can
work under different temperatures as well.
Dom: Of course.
Kira: That's an important part.
'cause if it's gonna work outside,
it has to be able to work when
it's hot and when it's cold.
Dom: Yeah.
Gosh.
Were there any moments where you had
some real setbacks and you thought,
"this is just, this is not gonna work.
We're not gonna get this to work".
And how did you overcome them?
Kira: Any aspect of research will
always, you'll always run into
errors or you'll always run into
some kind of setback or, roadblock.
No one's research path
is gonna be perfect.
I'm sure anyone that's gone into
research can agree with me on that.
Any kind of lab work, there's always
something that's gonna go wrong.
Maybe it's an off day, maybe the
computers don't work properly.
Maybe you made a slight error.
And it didn't come up perfect.
And there, there were some stages
where I almost gave up on some aspects
of experimentation because I was
trying something over and over again.
And I just wasn't getting
Dom: Yeah.
Kira: But the key thing is you
just have to persist because you
know in your heart that it's gonna
work and, might take a long time,
but eventually you'll get there.
Dom: Yeah.
It's inspirational.
You've obviously been a creative,
for part of your life and didn't
necessarily know that you'd end up
doing something in kind of science,
but you've been creating things.
Did you always think, that you
would be an inventor of something?
Kira: No, This was, not the path
that I would've thought of myself.
even looking back when I started
my undergrad the only idea I had of
what, a scientist was, just like
maybe working in a lab with like
cells or DNA - something like that.
Just like a classic white
lab coat kind of scientist.
Dom: Yeah.
Kira: I didn't even know
thunderstorm asthma existed
until the end of my undergrad.
Dom: Yeah.
Kira: And even when I started
my PhD, I took on this project
with little basis in chemistry.
I actually almost flunked
chemistry in high school.
I got a 22 for my study score.
Dom: Oh.
there you go, kids.
Just a reminder that like it is possible
to overcome something like that.
Kira: Yeah, and I had
no basis in technology.
There's a lot of statistics that goes
into it, a bit of programming and a lot
of this, I had to learn on the spot.
I had to take a lot of time myself to
figure out how these things worked, and I
had to reteach basic chemistry to myself.
Dom: Wow
Kira: as well, and I think if I didn't
have such an amazing support group
at Deakin through my supervisors
and through my lab, I wouldn't have
been able to, be able to create this
sensor in such a short amount of time.
Dom: Yeah.
that's really inspirational and
there's hope for me because I
didn't do chemistry beyond like
year nine or something like that.
So maybe if I study at Deakin,
I can become a scientist.
Kira: Probably can.
Dom: Speaking of that, you spent a lot of
your education at Deakin, a lot of your
career, really like your early career.
Does it feel like a second home?
Kira: Basically, yeah.
Like it's been eight years now
that I've been a Deakin which
is such a huge part of my life.
Like I've spent longer a Deakin
than I did at high school.
It’s crazy to think about, but it is, yeah.
It does feel like a, second home.
Like I have so many, close
friends that I've made at Deakin,
there's so many amazing people.
the staff and students here are all
lovely and yeah, I don't think I
would've chosen another university.
I do not regret my decision at all.
Why did you choose it in the first place?
Kira: It's actually a funny story.
So I was originally gonna, actually
study a double degree of science
and art at a different university.
But I was, talking to a random cashier.
When I was buying something and I
was just talking about, "I'm VCE and
thinking about studying science", and
then she immediately said, "oh, you
should study biomedical science a Deakin.
'cause that's what I'm
doing and I love it".
Dom: That's, oh, okay.
Yeah.
So she was studying it.
Yeah.
I was just like imagining a random
cashier that isn't studying at
all at university, but was just
like, "here's what you wanna do.
You wanna go to aisle four
and you wanna study..."
Kira: yeah.
Dom: "...Science at Deakin".
Kira: And I told my parents afterwards,
I was like, that's what I'm gonna do.
So I changed my whole decision
and put, that as my preference.
And I actually ran into her, two
years later and she's now a paramedic.
Dom: Wow.
whoever she is, we'd
like to say thank you.
Kira: Yeah, thank you Maddie.
Dom: And people who suffer from
thunderstorm asthma would also like
to say thank you because yeah, you
really set Kira on the right track
and where she was meant to be.
That's amazing.
That's an incredible story.
And to think of how many different ways,
it could have gone and you could have
ended up in a completely different place
doing something completely different.
Kira: Yeah.
And it's, such a random situation, but
I always highlight it because, sometimes
it's good to get anecdotal stories
from people about their experiences.
'Cause that was the only person
that I had spoken to who had
actual experience at a university.
Dom: Yeah.
Kira: And all she was doing
was just raving about Deakin.
So I said "oh, it must be that good then".
And turned out it was.
Dom: Yeah.
Nothing like a personal endorsement
of something, a testimonial.
In your time as a PhD student, what
opportunities and experiences have you had
and do you feel like these have set you up
really well for your career going forward?
Kira: Oh, it's too many to name, I feel.
I've been incredibly fortunate that
throughout my PhD my supervisor, my
supervisors have just been incredibly
supportive of me wanting to take on a lot
of opportunities to advance my career.
I'm really passionate about, science
communication as well as advocating for
women and underrepresented groups in stem.
So I've been able to, do
a lot of talks about that.
I've been able to take on a lot of career
and professional development workshops
as well, and I even took part in a lot
of science communication competitions
at Deakin or elsewhere as well.
And that's really helped me to
not only realise what I want to do
afterwards, but it's also helped
improve my skills as a researcher.
As well, it's helped me
become a better communicator.
It's helped me learn how to
engage with people outside of my
little research bubble as well.
And yeah, I'm just really grateful
for, a lot of these opportunities
that I've had come my way.
Dom: That's awesome.
So it's felt tangible, almost like on
the job experience of what it will be
like to be a researcher and going forward?
Kira: Absolutely.
Yeah.
And, as well, like so many transferable
skills that I can take with me, if
I decide to leave research as well.
When it comes to communication, it's
one of the most important skills for
people, especially if you're in research.
If you can't communicate what
you've done to people, then
have you really done anything?
Dom: Yeah.
You sound like a marketer to me.
Not just a researcher, but a marketer.
And that's the other half of
things to get your story out
there, to get your work out there.
So that's, really interesting.
Did you ever think that you'd have
an ad created that tells your story?
Kira: No.
No.
Never.
I. Always used to be actually like an
incredibly shy and nervous person, really,
which might seem surprising from a lot
of the stuff I've done, especially,
being on this podcast right now.
Yeah, I remember one of the first public
speaking talks I did in high school.
I actually threw up the morning
before because I was so nervous
and I had cue cards in my hand.
I was shaking so much like my legs were
trembling as well, and I knew that was
something that I really struggled with.
And I actually took the time during
my PhD to put myself out there and
take on a lot of public speaking
opportunities to improve my skills.
Especially because I started my
research career during Covid,
Dom: Right, of course.
Kira: Everything was online, like
even my confirmation I did over Zoom.
So the first public speaking opportunity,
I didn't get it until two years into my
PhD. And I figured that, if I'm gonna
become a researcher, I'm gonna have to go
to conferences to talk about my research.
I'm gonna have to, do seminars as well.
Dom: Yeah.
Kira: I need to be able to do
that confidently and without
throwing up and shaking.
Dom: Yeah.
Kira: So I put myself out there
and turns out I'm not only good
at it, but I really love it.
Dom: That's amazing
Kira: So it's almost like a bit
of exposure therapy I gave myself.
Dom: That's very hard to believe
that you were only a few years
ago, not, so confident with it.
'cause I've watched your
three minute thesis...
Kira: oh, thank you.
Dom: ...presentation, and that is
a masterclass in, holding a room.
So now you've got an
ad created, about you.
Kira: Yeah.
Dom: Basically.
Would you like to see it?
Kira: I would love to.
Yeah.
Voiceover: Hey, can you see it?
See what?
The wonderful possible.
Say thunderstorms give you asthma,
so you make it your mission to tame
the clouds with a mad invention.
No way!
Yeah, for real.
What about a PhD at 80?
Still got it.
Pop up law clinics anyone can access?
Nice.
Or lifting others up through education.
Yeah.
I see it now.
Yeah, you do.
Deakin University.
See the wonderful possible.
Kira: Wow, I want one.
Dom: Yeah.
Whatever that thing is.
Kira: Yeah.
That's so cool.
Ah, I would never have thought
that anything that I would've done
would've even been put on TV or
like in an ad. That's incredible.
Dom: If we were to do another ad
with you in 10 year's time, what
do you think it would be about?
What do you want to do in
your career in the future?
Kira: Wow.
I don't even know what I'm
gonna be doing in two years.
I would love to, hope that I've
done a lot of work in the field
of science communication and also
advocating for women in STEM.
I'm currently taking part in the
Superstars of STEM program through
Science Technology Australia, which is
about empowering, Women, professionals
in STEM careers and also, putting
the spotlight on women as well.
And that they can be scientists
too . So I'll get the opportunity
to talk to a lot of young girls and
students across the state about,
how cool it is to be a scientist.
So I would really hope that, a lot of
that work will be showcased next time.
Dom: That sounds like a good plan.
Kira: Thank you.
Dom: Kira, thank you so
much for joining me today.
Kira: Thank you for having me and, giving
me this opportunity to share my story.