Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
The podcast for aspiring entrepreneurs who have families. If you're a dad looking to escape the rat and quit your 9 to 5 while keeping food on the table for the family in the process then this show is for you. We discuss the challenges, tips, tricks and hacks to help you make the leap into freedom.
Brendan Ryan:
Jeff, thanks for joining me today.
Jeff lundeen:
Hey, how are you?
Brendan Ryan:
Doing great, doing great. So I saw on your Twitter bio that you used to have a corporate job and you were paid pretty well apparently. What was the job? Can you tell us a little bit about it and what motivated you to leave that and start doing what you're doing?
Jeff lundeen:
Yeah, so, excuse me. I was doing air traffic control and it was a pretty cool job actually, like directing airplanes in the sky, making sure airplanes don't run into each other, basically. Like a video game, but with real people and real lives. And yeah, it was pretty cool, especially like when it was busy and it was fun. There's times where it wasn't fun when there's thunderstorms and a lot of like really complicated stuff, but yeah, it was an interesting job. It just wasn't. I don't know, I guess the word for it maybe is it wasn't fulfilling, right? I realized right away that it was like, I didn't wanna do it for the next 20, 25 years and I had just no idea how to escape or no idea how to move from doing that to doing something else.
Brendan Ryan:
Okay, so I've heard that it's also kind of stressful. Was air traffic control also stressful for you?
Jeff lundeen:
It's rated as like really, really stressful. We always said that like it's only stressful if you suck. Like if you're actually good at it, it's easy like almost all the time, like maybe 1% of the time it's like, oh my gosh, this is serious, this is stressful. But yeah, if you're, some people are stressed all the time. Sure, but it's, if you stay ahead of, you know, there's basically tasks that pile up and if you stay ahead of them, then it can be super fun. But there's times where you just like, I've talked to like 45 airplanes at the same time and that was too many.
Brendan Ryan:
Yeah, see that sounds stressful to me, but I can completely relate to what you're saying about it not being fulfilling. I feel the same way about pharmacy, which is my job. And so what would you say to somebody that asks you or kind of presses you on why wouldn't it be fulfilling? Because it sounds like you're kind of making sure that planes don't crash into each other, right? So it sounds like an important job. What was it about the job that didn't feel fulfilling to you?
Jeff lundeen:
Ooh, good question. I mean, ultimately all we were doing, like when it gets down to it, is straightening out people's roots. Like, yeah, I guess keeping people from crash. Like the amount of actual like fun, really enjoyable work was low. There's times when like working the area over Wyoming that like fed Jackson Hole, that sector was super fun. Especially if you get a whole bunch of people going there at once for a holiday, like I could really get into the flow state and enjoy it. But the rest of the time was just boring. for the most part, there's a lot of rules. So it's for the government, like a lot of rules and like paperwork galore. And so it's just like all of those things. But the biggest thing was like the energy of the people, the people who worked there, I looked at them, I was just like, I do not wanna be anything like you, right? And so I looked at the path here. I could retire when I was 49, if I stayed working there. But even then, even early, I was still just like this. that's a lot of time to commit to working for this job. And like, yeah, people weren't happy. People complained a lot. And I just realized like, I'm now very conscious of the people that I spend time around and the energy transfer that happens. And that environment was just completely drained me. So I'm sure most people have had the experience of feeling very drained somewhere. And this environment drained me. And I realized like being outside, being in the mountains, I spent like rock climbing was my biggest passion. and my, I guess, outlet for stress probably.
Brendan Ryan:
Yeah, absolutely. I can completely relate to what you're saying about the negative environment. In fact, it's almost ironic because I was telling my wife last night about how the pharmacy where I work has that exact impact on me. And I think that that's huge for mindset, right? Because it kind of carries over into the rest of your life, how patient you are with your family, or how well you're doing on your side hustles and all that kind of stuff. So absolutely, you can 100% relate to all of that, including what you said about looking at the other people that have been in the job for say decades and seeing that that's just not it. That's not what I want to do with my life. I want bigger and better things. At least that's how I felt. I have a much bigger dream than just sitting in a pharmacy for decades and retiring when I'm old and not able to really enjoy my life and be able to travel and do all the cool things that you're doing now. hanging out in Columbia, walking
Jeff lundeen:
Right.
Brendan Ryan:
through jungles. So when you decided that that was not it, what was the first thing you tried?
Jeff lundeen:
Great question. So. When I decided it wasn't it in the first place, there was, I mean, everything, right? I had already been interested in sports betting. I had since learned that sports betting is not a good way to make money. And then I was interested in, I got interested in Bitcoin really early, actually. But I bought some, but then I didn't understand its true value and there wasn't enough education. So I bought some and didn't think it was that valuable and then just gave it away, got rid of it. And then later, four years later, whatever, then it became really important in like 2017. So. What else did I try? I watched people for way too long. I sat on Twitter and I watched people just win, probably for two years before I actually did anything. So that's the embarrassing thing. That's what I saw one of your questions coming up was probably gonna be, what would you tell yourself five years ago? And I would say just like start earlier, like start before you think you're ready because you're not gonna be ready.
Brendan Ryan:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I wanted to ask you about Bitcoin eventually too, because I am myself a Bitcoiner and that's crazy that you were into it that early. I dabbled in it myself just a little bit in 2017 because I was really into online poker at the time and I was using it to buy into poker games. So subsequently wasn't able to hold very much of that, right? But, that was my first introduction to Bitcoin. But yeah, that's great advice. I think just getting started is the hardest part for so many people. But at the end of the day, you just have to start taking action because I really believe that you actually get a lot of clarity from just doing something. Even if you guess completely wrong, you start to learn more about yourself and start to move in a direction that you would have never guessed. At least that was my experience, right? So when I first started, when I got started in... was lead generation. So it was a rank and rent model. If you've ever heard of that, it's essentially the idea that you build a website, rank it in Google, and then rent it out to a contractor for monthly recurring revenue. It was actually a pretty good model. It worked decently well. But I hated building websites and I didn't really like SEO. And eventually I found that what I really liked about the process was actually the sales part of it. talking to the actual contractor and making the sale and closing the deal. It energized me, kind of excited me, and I would have never, never guessed that I would like sales when I was a pharmacist before I started doing anything, right? So I think that there's something to be said for just taking action and that giving you clarity because you learn so much about yourself. I think that entrepreneurship in general is a journey of self-discovery. and self-improvement of course, but most people, it's transformative, right? You start with who you are, and then you end up a totally different person. So absolutely agree with that. So when did you, after you did those couple things, how did you eventually land on sales?
Jeff lundeen:
I started with copywriting and that's where I made my first dollars. My mentor from, so I first started in sales doing solar door to door. And this was, what had happened was I went and traveled, like I quit my job the first time. I read the four hour work week and just like had enough money saved up I thought for two years. So I'm just like, well, I'm going to quit. I did this exercise of like, can I get back to where I'm at? And the answer was yes. So this was when I was 26, this was even longer ago. This is like eight years ago now. And so I quit, went and traveled, because that was like what I wanted to do with retirement, and then like ran out of money. I had tried other things like building people websites. I thought that you could just build a website and that people would go to it. I didn't realize the whole traffic aspect of like, you have to get people to the website. So that I failed, but I learned that now traffic's important, right? And every single thing that, every time that I failed, I learned that something else wasn't. was important, right? Or I learned something that I didn't know that I didn't know that I didn't know that now I know, like now I know how to set up Calendly, for example. That's something that like doesn't sound very important, but knowing how to do it is important to run a business.
Brendan Ryan:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I like to I've been saying to multiple people that have been talking to lately that I don't even really like the word failure anymore. I like to think of it as part of the process. It's inevitable, right? Like, whenever you start anything, you're going to suck at it at first. So if you were looking at, you know, I'm a father, so I have kids, and my kids are really young. So they learn in the walk and everything. And the first few steps that they take or the first few times that they try, obviously they fall down. But I don't look at that and say like he failed, right? Because I know that they're going to keep trying. And as long as they keep trying, they're not going to fail. They're eventually going to learn it and master the skill. And so I hate the idea of even saying that, you know, I failed at this or I failed at that. It's like, no, you didn't, you didn't fail. You just learned. You learned that either that's not it or you learned some valuable skill from that particular venture. and you were able to apply it to what you're doing now. So, copywriting makes a ton of sense. That's one of the high value skills that I see a lot of aspiring entrepreneurs, if you will, kind of double down on and invest in to begin with. And I think in today's online world, it's huge. If you can be a masterful copywriter, you can make a lot of money for sure on landing pages or even just freelancing for people. I like to think of copywriting as written sales. However, of course they're totally different, but would you say that you were able to take anything that you learned from copywriting and apply it to sales?
Jeff lundeen:
course, it's like the skill stack, which I'll explain in a sec. But before there, I want to get back to your point on failure. Like, I think you're right, if you don't give up, it doesn't exist. It's just every step, you just learn more. And it's like, if you will not stop, then you will learn enough to learn how to do the thing. It's, it's not
Brendan Ryan:
Exactly.
Jeff lundeen:
like if you try hard enough and learn enough different ways that it doesn't work, for example, that it's not going to work. So Are you familiar with the skill stack, the concept?
Brendan Ryan:
Is this Alex Ramosi?
Jeff lundeen:
No, or at least I didn't learn it from him. But I guess he talks about it too. It's just stacking as many different skills on top of each other makes you more and more undeniable. It makes it more and more unreasonable that you can't make everybody's magic number 10K per month. If I use my copywriting skills, even when I send text messages, when I send pre-call messages, anytime that I'm writing text, when I'm writing tweets, anytime I'm using copyright. So it's just like a skill now. I think you might have asked me how I chose or how I landed on sales. Right before I learned solar, I was reading a lot of books. I was out of money. I was at a low point. I don't know. Maybe I just have this belief, but it always seems like people are at this low point, and then that's when they pivot to something and really take off. I was reading a bunch of books, didn't have really much money, wasn't working at the time, was waiting to... Just watching my money run out. Not very motivated. I saw Learn Sales, so I got the door-to-door job, and then I did door-to-door solar for, I think it was only like four months, but I learned a lot really fast about sales, and then I had a mentor who taught me, told me about copywriting. I had also read in Rich Dad Poor Dad, like learn sales, learn copywriting, right? So that's why I just took that advice blindly and said, I'm gonna learn this, and then see after I learn it how I like it, right? And then if I want to keep learning more about sales, which I do, then I will keep. learning more about it. But that's kind of how I found and settled on sales as the actual vehicle.
Brendan Ryan:
Yeah, makes sense. I don't even remember that from Rich Dad Poor Dad, but the thing I always remember is the Naval quote where he says something about learn how to build, learn how to sell. If you can do both, you'll be unstoppable. And that really resonated with me because when I read that quote, I realized that I had been building, I've been building these lead generation properties, but I wasn't double downing, doubling down on the actual selling portion of it. And so that was kind of my... my moment where I'm like, okay, I need to do better about that. Um, and you mentioned being at a low point too, and having that be kind of a motivating factor for significant change in your life. And I can relate to that a hundred percent. I think that that something everybody can relate to. Um, and yeah, so I think a lot of people that are looking to kind of escape the nine to five escape, the rat race, uh, killer job, they're always looking for. a particular path that they can take that can start as a side hustle so that they can keep their job, keep their income and not have to burn the boat so to speak and kind of grow that to the point where they can make the leap without there being so much pain involved in terms of their finances and taking a financial haircut in the process. So is that what you did and is that what you would recommend people do or do you think that more people should just... jump in and burn the boat.
Jeff lundeen:
I used to think burn the boats, that still could be an option. If you're gonna burn the boats, I think you have to have at least six months of, I view time as how much money I can last without working. Right, or I view money as how much time I can last, right? So it's in years, it's not in dollars, I guess. And so when you have enough money saved up for more than a year, it's a lot more comfortable to fully make the jump. So that's the first thing, like that's the first part of my strategy is, how much of a cushion or how much margin can I create? So I'm in a good spot that I have a lot of time to, I guess, figure things out, right? Versus if you have two months, right? Somebody that I'm coaching, he has two months if he stopped working. And it's like, that's not a good position to be in, right? So that's the first thing is, at least the people that I work with, they tend to make over a hundred grand, right? They tend to be making a lot of money and have the golden handcuffs of like, I can't leave because they pay me so well. or I can't leave because I get health insurance, or whatever, there's many different reasons that we feel like we can't leave yet. And it's ultimately just that we haven't learned enough about the world that right now the map that we followed was find a good paying job and that's the way. And then like we weren't really taught about entrepreneurship, right? And so I think that people have to figure it out on their own and you just, depending on how much of a self learner you are, I can tell that you're... a phenomenal self learner and that you spend a lot of time, like you're good at learning. And so that I think is a really important skill and being curious and wanting to learn stuff and then having the desire to actually learn it because there's so much information in the world that if everybody, if all you needed was information, you'd have a six pack and a billion dollars. But it's like the implementation side of things and actually like trying and failing that matters the most.
Brendan Ryan:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That what you mentioned about wealth to you being how long you can survive if you were to stop working. I believe that also was from Rich Abhordan. And that was for sure like a big red pill moment for me financially realizing that like, yeah, even though I might have six or 12 months saved up. And that's kind of the conventional financial advice or wisdom, if you will. That's really not that much at all. Like that's really kind of crazy. And the mindset shift that needed to occur was when Robert Kiyosaki said that you need to invest for cashflow and not for a nest egg. And that was huge for me. That's why originally I went into lead generation because it was something that I could get monthly recurring revenue from. But I've, and that was actually one of the reasons why I was hesitant to jump into sales immediately as kind of like a full-time. side gig, if you will, because it felt like just another job rather than like a monthly recurring revenue source, if you know what I mean. And so, though what I've realized over time is that a lot of entrepreneurs start in sales and use that kind of as a springboard into doing something else eventually. Have you noticed that as well?
Jeff lundeen:
Yeah, well, sales or copywriting are the two that I've noticed. And there, it seems like they have a very low barrier to enter, right? You can just, you can go out without joining somebody's program and figure it out on your own. Right. I, that's what I did. Um, but if you, there's so many people now with good training programs, right? Myself included that if you pay somebody to show you exactly how to do it, you can make money right away. And it's not like, if you're looking for passive income, that's not what it is. It's work. It's a skill that you're learning, but once you learn the skill, you always have the skill. Like you can't take away my skills or my experiences. And so now that you have this skill, if your dream is to build a big business later and you want to scale it past 30K, you're gonna need to know how to sell. And so you might as well get paid to learn how to sell. Same thing with copywriting. You can get clients right away. The problem with copywriting is you have to learn how to get the client in the first place, through the cold email, and then guess what? after you do the cold email or after you get them on the phone, you have to sell them. And so I was starting with copywriting and I was realizing I'm really good at selling people but I don't actually really like the writing process anymore. Like the first couple of times I did it was awesome. I was like, I can't believe I made $3,000 to write these couple of pages. And then after a while it turned into like, I would get the job and then just not really want to do the writing, which is interesting. But. Actually, the closing part, it's interesting because getting hired or getting on an offer is the same thing as a sales call in general.
Brendan Ryan:
Yeah. What you said about getting hired for the copywriting and then realizing you don't really want to do the actual writing. I think that was the it moment for you to realize like copywriting isn't it? Like, although that was a good experience and you probably learned a lot for it opened up some doors for you. Eventually you realize like, no, copywriting is probably not what I'm meant to do or what I'm really good at or passionate about. It's not my icky guy, if you're familiar with that term.
Jeff lundeen:
That's a good point. I never thought of that before. Yeah.
Brendan Ryan:
Yeah, so for anybody listening, if you're not familiar with the Iki guy, it's a Japanese concept that kind of speaks to the purpose of your life. So it combines four things. It's one is what you're passionate about. One is what you can be paid to do. One is what the world needs. And there's a fourth one. I don't know if you recall what it is, Jeff, but it escapes me.
Jeff lundeen:
That's
Brendan Ryan:
But
Jeff lundeen:
some head.
Brendan Ryan:
yeah. But it's a really good exercise, I think, for especially beginning entrepreneurs or people that are looking to just escape the rat race. If you're really kind of paralyzed by analysis and you really just don't wanna pick something to invest in in terms of a high value skill, maybe start there and that will give you a little bit more clarity about what maybe you should do. And so, if you, so. You were telling us about eventually you did copywriting and you realized that you had to sell in order to be good at copywriting, right? And I think that that's exactly kind of what I was getting at earlier about how a lot of entrepreneurs actually start in sales and kind of grow from there into something else. So they use it as a launching pad, a springboard, if you will, into building some other type of business later on online. Because the thing is. No matter what business you think you want to build, whatever business idea or creative idea you have in your head, if you're building a business, you're going to have to sell period. It's this idea like when I, when I first started, I tried to actively avoid the sales part because quite honestly, I was like a little bit afraid of it. So I wanted to build the lead gen properties and then outsource the selling to somebody else. But it's the thing is like you, you, you're really selling yourself short that way, right? No pun intended. If you're trying to build a business, you're going to have to be a salesman, period. And so that's why I kind of harp on that. I think that it's an area that people should be more inclined to start with. And it's something that's got a bad rap over the years. I was just in a meeting the other day for the digital marketing agency that I'm closing for and they mentioned that stereotype of the sleazy salesman. And I'm just like still thinking to myself, like, how is that even still a thing? Because if you were to research sales right now, it's totally different than it was 30, 40 years ago. The tactics and everything are just absolutely completely different. The people that are buying things nowadays don't want to be sold to, they wanna buy, right? So it's a lot more of a collaborative practice. So what do you think about today's sales versus yesterday's sales? What to you is a very common misconception? And why do you think these misconceptions are so slow to change?
Jeff lundeen:
Yeah, so first off, I actually had somebody cancel a call because I was taking somebody's offer for teaching people Kindle Direct Publishing, which is like how to publish books on Amazon. But I wasn't the offer owner. And the guy was like, as a former car salesman, I definitely don't wanna be pitched by a ticket closer. And he canceled the call. So that's why the reputation is there, I think is from programming. I think it's just everywhere we look, like when it comes down to it, everything is programming, it shapes how your beliefs are, how you see the actual world. And when we're growing up, in all the movies, in all situations, the salesman is this slimy or this slick guy, or he's always taking advantage of people. And so that's what we've been programmed to see, that's what our current map of reality is. And until we see a better way, and we consistently see a better way of sales, then we're not gonna change our mind. And so... When like the car dealership still people just dread going there right doing this their sales process. It's gotten better But it's just a completely different kind of of sale in my mind, um and now Yeah, it doesn't work. I think jeremy miner said this he said it really well that doesn't work because of the internet People can see if you're legit and you have reviews and so It just doesn't work. And so now you have to be ethical which people should be in the first place But now everybody has to be if they want to have a successful business And so now, yeah, sales is just like asking people questions and motivating to them to change if you feel that they should change or if they should take action on said thing.
Brendan Ryan:
Yeah. And so that's the thing though, that kind of drives me nuts about how this conventional wisdom is so slow to change. This opinion, right? That the salesmen are sleazy is so slow to change because we have the internet and it should be fairly easy to like educate yourself on everything. And so on the one hand, what you said is, you know, people can research everything. And so that educational aspect of sales... that used to exist and used to be like a cornerstone of sales in the past isn't necessary anymore. People need to just come to their own conclusions and you're there to help facilitate that to happen. But on the other hand, it seems like the reputation of salesmen hasn't caught up even though we have that information age, we have that resource of the internet. People still will say that the sleazy sailing is. just like they still tell their kids to go to college and go that route and become the engineer or the lawyer or whatever, rather than trying to be an entrepreneur, right? Like you mentioned earlier that we're not taught that like at all. The school system seems to produce these laborers rather than these free thinkers, you know? So it's just frustrating, right? Like that it seems like it's this double edged sword and we're only getting... the downside of it, at least in regards to sales or with regards to a lot of things, I think, but yeah.
Jeff lundeen:
I think the, I have a comment on that. So the most important skill that I believe is to be willing to be wrong in public and take ownership for being wrong. And like you said, the school system does not program you well to be wrong in public. And so people have a current view, in this case that sales is sleazy. And if they change that view to some degree, they have to admit that they were wrong in the past. Right? And this is with all beliefs. And so that's why it's super interesting. Like, the people that are the smartest, the people who understand Bitcoin, we're willing to be wrong. That we all started thinking that it wasn't gonna work and it shouldn't work and all the reasons, right? And it's the same thing. It's like being willing to be wrong and being curious enough to research and do research in a way that's like, I'm not trying to just confirm my bias, find things that look up, recreate and say the same thing as what I'm looking for, but things that actually counter it because there's so much information out there.
Brendan Ryan:
Yeah, I think a good life hack actually would be to try to almost always go against the grain, like figure out what most people are doing and do it, start doing the opposite because the average across the board for at least the average American, right? Like financially, um, health wise, um, relationship wise in terms of like divorce rates across the board, it's quite bad, like the statistics are, are bad. Right. So The norm is not something that anybody should strive for. So it seems like people should be thinking outside the box a lot more in terms of what their goals are for the future, really what they're trying to do and strive for, the lifestyle that they're trying to lead. But it's amazing how strong that societal pressure is to just conform and just to go to your nine to five and to kind of get that medium-sized house in suburbia. and just be happy with that, you know? It just bothers me a little bit that like more people don't dream bigger than that. Can you relate to that at all?
Jeff lundeen:
Yes. Well, so the thing is the internet changed everything. That's people still haven't. Naval has this quote. People still haven't figured that out yet. Right. The internet has created so many jobs and people don't know. Like now because of the internet, I think I already think education and always have thought that education is the most important thing. And I saw the traditional system and I was like, no, this doesn't work for me. And so I kept looking at how could I, how can I be an educator, but in a different format? Right? And so like sales is just the beginning. This is just the platform because I know it's an in-demand skill and I like it and I'm curious about it, but I will expand, you know, my education company to other parallels later. And so the amount of opportunity that's on the internet didn't exist before and the only way that you can figure it out, it's not like there's a class on it. You have to go looking, right? There are like the get rich quick schemes and I think everybody got sucked in with those. They learned, okay. not everything works, right? I need to be skeptical on the internet. And some people just label their whole experience on the internet as everything's a scam. Like back five years ago, you have an online business and they're like, oh, so it's a Ponzi scheme?
Brendan Ryan:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So you touched on something, I think that was important that you consider education to be the most important thing. And now you have a sales coaching business. So that's the first thing that you're starting with in terms of education. How did you get into that?
Jeff lundeen:
on accident. So I was closing, actually the same offer that you're on now. And I was also setting. Setting and closing, I started setting, replaced the business owner, and as the closer, like 25 days later, and then started his wholesale process. And as I was doing that, I was like, there's no longer a way for me to take all these setting calls. So I hired somebody and trained him. And then I realized we had more leads that needed to be outbound dialed, so I hired somebody else and trained him. And the guy who was doing the outbound dialing, he was just like so coachable and so fun to work with. And so like for a year straight, basically, I worked with him and like reviewed all of his calls and helped him get better, partially because I liked him, but also because having your setter being really good makes you make more money as a closer. So it was like an investment into me making more money was. creating this, I'm the mentor and he's the mentee relationship with my setter. And so as I did that, then I brought on, I was continuing to bring on more setters but I would churn them. And I was like, this guy's awesome, he's stuck around but everybody else seems to be churning. And so why? And then he, for one, had the better mindset, he was willing to stick with it and really go all in. And so he, like that's kind of what I look for is people who are really coachable. And I say no to a lot more of the other people. But... I'm not sure why, like just everybody, I don't know if it's that everybody's not coachable, that's probably a limiting belief, but finding the right people, I think is super important.
Brendan Ryan:
Yeah. So it sounds like it kind of happened organically or naturally in the digital marketing agency that you were working for. And it just kind of grew from there into more of an official agency or business of your own, which is cool. That's, you know, exactly how it's supposed to happen. You touched on being coachable when you're looking for the ideal client of yours. Is there anything else that you look for in terms of their mindset or, or outside of mindset even?
Jeff lundeen:
Well, I can help people make changes just anywhere that they're at in their mindset, but some people it's just like, oh, that would be so much work, or oh, I don't wanna help them work through this problem. Right, if it's too, I'm getting way more laser focused, like you actually are my ideal client, and probably anybody who's listening to this, like somebody who makes a lot of money at their nine to five, but it's just like, I don't wanna do this anymore, and I haven't quite figured. this internet thing out or at least I haven't figured it out at scale how to make money there, right? So ideally, we've already made even money on the internet, but haven't figured out like how to progress that even farther to get to a point where you're now making more money online than offline. And then once you do that, then you can't ever really go back.
Brendan Ryan:
Yeah, it sounds almost to me like there has to be a certain level of readiness on their part in terms of like the mindset shift that needs to occur from, you know, the guy working his nine to five or whatever to realizing and striving and trying to make sales or whatever it is work for you to want to work with them. Which makes a ton of sense because I like to call it a red pill moment. Like I referred to that earlier about rich dad, poor dad kind of being my financial red pill in my life, if you will, realizing that the path that I'm on is just not going to work out all that well. And I'm so glad I did that because I read that right before inflation took off like crazy, right? And so that added fuel to the fire because I'm like, you know, even though I have a good salary now, what is that salary going to be? in terms of purchasing power 30 years from now, you know, it's not going to be that great at all. And so for me, one of the major motivating factors, there's a lot of things that motivate me to kill my job and go full-time entrepreneur. But one of the main things is that I want to have an unlimited ability to make money, right? I don't want to have like a glass ceiling that I would bump up against, which is the case in pharmacy. Even though I start out at a good... salary, I can only go so high before I'm capped out, like period. So I think that that should be something that is really appealing to, especially a lot of men, like a lot of family men, a lot of people that have a wife and kids and all that kind of stuff, because I believe that money gives you options, right? The option is to spend more time with your kids, to retire your wife, travel the world with them. And that's all of my dream, right? That's kind of where I'm going with all of that. So going back to your sales coaching, what is something that you've noticed a lot of beginners get wrong when they first start in sales?
Jeff lundeen:
Tonality, for sure. It's not even something that they're aware of. Right? And I think that that, again, that the levels of awareness thing of going from unconscious incompetence to conscious incompetence, you know, the pyramid going up, conscious competence and then unconscious competence when you actually master the thing, I think is just really important in general when it comes to learning. And so what was the question again?
Brendan Ryan:
Just what do you see beginners in sales get wrong the most?
Jeff lundeen:
Oh, tonality for sure. And the ones that fail are because they don't go hard enough. Right? They don't try hard enough. You have to outbound dial basically to get started. Or the best way to get started in my opinion is outbound dial or to knock doors. Right? One of those two things. And they want inbound books appointments on their calendar. They think that all they need is to just get an opportunity. And it's like, well, you're not the type of person who a good opportunity, somebody who has an offer would hire. So first you need to become that person and they don't, they think it's the other way around. So. What else? I can expand some more, but like, I don't think I fully answered your question.
Brendan Ryan:
No, you hit it. I mean, tonality, I think is huge. And in fact, the very first book that I read when I decided that I need to get better at sales was Way of the Wolf by Jordan Belfort. And when I originally read that book, the tonality of section, I like, I wasn't ready for it. It almost sounded like kind of crazy to me at the time. And so in a large part, I actually ignored it. And as a result, I find myself still working on tonality quite a bit. It's something that I need to get better at, especially on a podcast, right? Like it's actually important for podcasting as well in terms of mastering tonality. And I think I could be wrong, but I think a lot of people overlook that. Would you agree?
Jeff lundeen:
Yes, for sure. Tonality and just being a good orator or being good at articulating. Like I learned this, this guy David on Twitter, he's had this on his podcast many times. He was talking about becoming a good speaker is extremely important. Just becoming a good communicator in general is extremely important. And tonality is just one part of becoming a good speaker.
Brendan Ryan:
Yeah, that makes sense. So what about the idea of objection handling? Because from my point of view, when I first started in sales, it seemed like there was a huge hyper focus on objection handling. What are your thoughts about that?
Jeff lundeen:
Yeah, so you shouldn't get objections. You should disqualify them or they should close. Like there's really, like if you had that belief that those are the two options, then you'd probably disqualify more people. And then also some people that you were trying to disqualify would then buy anyways. And just in general, like there still will be some objections, right? There still will be some people. And the reason why is usually because they were never intending to buy. They just wanted to get on to see the process, to learn more about it. And there's some people that you legitimately can't convince, right? That's why it's really hard to get above like a 70% close rate. Like even high 60s is extremely good for a close rate. And that's why, because some people just won't buy. Now, if you've done it right in the beginning, you've given the person the information, you've shown them how what you're selling is good, it works and it is what they need. There isn't any reason that they shouldn't buy it. And so when you have an objection, it means that you failed to do something, whether it was building trust, whether it was helping them know, like, and trust you, whatever the case is, you failed to do that earlier on, or the offer's just not good. But assumingly, you only sell a good offer that works, you know, that's what it all comes back to, as long as you're only selling a good offer that works, then you're just helping people, is essentially how the sales call is. You just help them make a decision, and sometimes you coach them through. But I would say the amount of times that I have successfully handled somebody's objections, in order to get them to buy right there on that call is like less than 2% of the time.
Brendan Ryan:
Yeah, that's so true. When you find yourself in that objection handling mode, the frame is flipped. They're the ones asking the questions and you're the one reacting at that point. So yeah, you're kind of swimming upstream at that point. I like to think of it as objection prevention is what we should focus on. And that entails not only asking the right questions during discovery to kind of prevent them from... you know, busting out some of the most common objections, but also the pre-call routine that you'll go through to kind of prime them, to get them ready, make sure decision makers show up and all that kind of thing. What are your thoughts about that? The idea of objection prevention.
Jeff lundeen:
Yeah, so that is the thing is objection prevention. That's what's actually important. And having pre-programming, I believe everything's programming. So from when they get to know you to when they actually get to, here's what you get, here's the price, the bigger, the better the relationship and the connection is, the more likely they are to buy. Right, it's as simple as that. And so now like I have, immediately after you book a call with me, I have a selfie video of me setting expectations for the call and then even saying, please respond back, I'll be there. And I just talked, you were talking earlier about no show rate being an issue on your offer and I just talked to the business owner and gave him a lot of different things that will make the show rate significantly improve. So, and also not just the show rate improving, but also increasing, I don't know if compliance is the right word, like everything is programming, so to some degree it's. further indoctrinating them. I was just telling, I see Isaiah's in here, I was just telling Isaiah this today, like the word indoctrination I don't believe is a bad word. It's like getting them fully into what your belief structure is because in order for them to move forward with you, they have to think in a similar way that you do.
Brendan Ryan:
Yeah, I like that. I like that. And it's true that indoctrination has a negative connotation. So we need to come up with better language. We need to think about that and come invent a word, if you will, to better reflect what we're trying to do there because it's more positive manipulation. Manipulation also has a negative connotation, but we need something to describe that idea. But I saw you make a real or a short form video the other day about the idea of pre-suasion. Can you talk a little bit about that? Is this kind of what you're getting at with the idea of objection prevention or is it something different?
Jeff lundeen:
Uh, kind of both. I mean, I wasn't, I wasn't intentionally thinking about it this way, but yeah, beforehand, I would say, persuasion more likely helps somebody show up or helps them make a decision. It, it creates more favorable opportunities for them to say yes, to buy, for example. Right. And that's just, I think what persuasion is in general is creating like getting more luck or creating more favorite, you can never force somebody to do something that they don't wanna do, right? But you can help them learn your way of thinking, for example, and if early on they adopt your belief set, because if before they have a belief set that they should get all of their customers through word of mouth, right? And then you help them understand, actually there's a system out here that You can keep getting these word of mouth people, plus we're gonna help you get more customers and we're actually gonna book them onto your calendar. So all you have to do is give them a call at the scheduled time and then set up, you know, an onsite visit with them. So these are qualified people and they're good customers. And so having somebody understand and adopt that belief set, before they even get on the call, or the more that they're in alignment with that, the less that your two realities are different, because this is the thing that I've discovered that's really interesting is people that we don't see reality the same way. And so we have different belief structures in how the world is. That's why half of the country watches Fox News and half watches CNN, and they think the other one is fake, right? It's just a different way that we view the reality. And so if their beliefs are set up where they can't possibly buy, we have to help them change that. And sometimes it takes longer. And so that's, I think the pre, I just heard today, a guy who's helping me with an email campaign, he said, on average, people need to see your content for seven hours before they'll buy. And I was like, well, that is interesting. That's a new thing.
Brendan Ryan:
Yeah, that's an interesting number. I'd love to know how he came up with that. Does he mean content like on social media and that kind of thing?
Jeff lundeen:
Yeah, so you could watch some of my reels, you could watch this podcast, getting to know somebody deeper because even this long form thing, right? It's different than just the viral shorts, right? There will be some viral shorts that come out, but that's not the purpose or the point.
Brendan Ryan:
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, it's a totally different ball game really. It's actually, I think, much more difficult to do short form than it is long form because you have to compact and bake everything down and be able to deliver value within 30 seconds or a minute or whatever. And you really, really have to master that hook. So it's a good thing that you studied copywriting to begin with because that'll come in real handy for all the short form stuff.
Jeff lundeen:
Yeah,
Brendan Ryan:
But...
Jeff lundeen:
I actually need to learn better the hook specifically for short form because right now I'm just like literally talking into the into the camera and I realized that having a hook, you know it's the most important thing in writing copy like the Joseph Sugarman I believe it was who said that the most important part of the email is the subject line because you have to get the email opened and then once you get the Email open then the most important line is the first line so that way they read the next line and it is compressively like every single The whole point of each word before was to get them to read the next one. And same thing with the hook on, if they don't watch the video, then they don't get anything out of it.
Brendan Ryan:
Yeah, yeah, the Adweek copywriting handbook, I think that was my favorite copywriting book that I read. I dabbled a little bit in copywriting. I'm not a good copywriter, but that's a great one for anybody listening that is interested in copywriting. 100% read that. But yeah, on the topic of short form content, what I've found being a nice structure that I try to replicate all the time myself is to start with a hook. and then lead it into an example and then end with a summary. It sounds very, very simple, but it has to be when you're trying to boil it down to like one minute. And so I found that that structure really, really works well. But yeah, when you're first starting out and you're just recording content, you get better and better at it, just like we were mentioning earlier. You know, you kind of stumble your way through it. The quality gets better, the editing gets better and all that kind of stuff. But the idea of the hook, I think also starts to get solidified because you're doing it all the time. Like if you're producing one short form video per day, you're practicing that hook every day. And so like a fast way that I'll think about producing a hook is that I try to combine two things. One is pain or pleasure. So something that somebody either wants and wants to run towards or something that somebody wants to run away from. plus intrigue, right? So you're not giving them the full answer right off the bat. You just combine those two, and that's like a really simple, quick way to like whip up a hook. And I've used that like a ton of times to develop a hook. But I think there's something to be said too for looking at what works for other people, you know, and trying to put your own spin on that as well. But,
Jeff lundeen:
Yeah,
Brendan Ryan:
good.
Jeff lundeen:
that's really important. JK Molina, I learned from him, just basically copy what people are doing that works, but do it in a way, like copy the idea, right? Don't copy it word for word, but see, hey, there is this business model that works, right, lead generation works, okay. So now that I know it works. understanding what they do, what their setup is. Oh, they use ClickFunnels for the landing page. Oh, they get Facebook ads that drive traffic to the ClickFunnels. Okay, I can do that. Or copying, you know, a structure of, copying is again not the right word, right? So like you were saying before about the indoctrination sequence, words really, I'm realizing right now on this podcast, words really limit our language. Like I think I've heard this before and it's cliche, but because the words matter so much, when a word isn't the right word, then they limit what we're actually trying to express. Which is quite interesting.
Brendan Ryan:
Yeah, that's why I said earlier when you were trying to describe that positive manipulation aspect of what you do, that we need to come up with a better word for the word indoctrination because it needs to be with a positive connotation. But I was just telling my wife this the other day or today actually, there's a African tribe, right, that lives in a jungle. They're called the Himba and they have something like a dozen different words for green. So they can differentiate much easier between different shades of green than say we can. When we grew up, we just call it green, right? We only have one word for it, at least at the very basic level. But they have no words for blue, and they actually literally can't see blue because of it. So if the researchers presented them with two different color squares, and one was green and one was blue, they would call the blue one one of their versions of green. They see it as green. which is super, super interesting, right? So they're much better at, you know, differentiating all the colors of green, but they can't even see the blue because they don't have a word for it. And so I think that speaks tremendously to the power of the spoken word and how words in our language shape our reality. And yeah, I think that that's one of the main reasons why the idea of mindset and controlling your thoughts, monitoring your thoughts and... watching the language that you speak over yourself is so powerful because, like you were saying earlier, everything is programming, right? And so I think a lot of people don't even realize how much of that they're doing. What are your thoughts about that?
Jeff lundeen:
Yeah, I mean, the NPC meme is that way because it's basically real, right? There are people who just are so programmed. There's so many habits, so many things that they are doing that they didn't consciously choose to do, right? And it just starts with not having the awareness. So much of, I think, making money online and just in general is doing internal work on yourself. Or at least that's how I view it, to understand. what thing you need to learn to get better at the say do ratio, right? That's like the number one thing that I talk about when people first join and work with me is because if you don't keep your word, then you can't create your own reality and then you also know that you're the type of person who doesn't keep their word, which never works, right?
Brendan Ryan:
Not a good way to be.
Jeff lundeen:
No, and it's something that people are programmed probably or to not keep their word, I guess, and it's we're all blank slate. Do you know who Ted Sto says?
Brendan Ryan:
No.
Jeff lundeen:
Okay, he has an amazing email list, and he's a really good copywriter. He's the one I learned copy from. But he always talks about how we start off as a clean slate and then like society and your parents and your upbringing and how you responded to circumstances shapes who you are today, right? And shapes the beliefs that you have. And so, you know, it's just literally talking to somebody who doesn't have the belief that you can make money online right now, right? Who has zero awareness that like, oh yeah, I use the internet, but I didn't know you could make money on it. is one, is the far extreme, then talking to somebody who's like, I know you can make money on it, but a lot of them are, you know, weird businesses. I don't want to do it. It's too much work. And then the person who's like, I know you can make money online and I'm interested in it. I've been trying, but I can't figure it out. To finally, the person who is like, I know you can make money online and I just made my first dollar. Like what was your first dollar that you made online?
Brendan Ryan:
Um, I think it was in lead generation actually. Yeah. It was a pretty amazing experience. It was actually, um, yeah, it was a lead generation. I still remember exactly where I was and when I received it and got the notification on my phone, it was only $200, but it still made it real for me. Um, because I think you're right. I think the idea that the laptop lifestyle and making internet money. Still for some people is a little bit unbelievable. Like I understand. why some people were super skeptical of it, say 10 years ago or more. The idea that you could run an Amazon store for a couple hours a day, make all that passive income and just sip martinis on the beach definitely seemed like a pipe dream. When I phrase it that way, of course it is. But it's possible. And I think that increasingly more and more people are actually making it happen. And now most people actually know somebody. either, you know, maybe not directly, but at least through somebody that, hey, this guy actually was able to build up an online business and makes money online. And so now it's becoming a little bit more acceptable. It's still for sure. Especially with older generations, a little bit pooh poohed, I think. But yeah, I think, yeah, you're a hundred percent right. That people need to be red filled. That's what I said earlier. And that's why I use that term. Just like Bitcoiners use the idea of being orange-pilled, it's that moment referring to the matrix where you wake up and realize that the programming that you've been receiving all of your life is not true. Right? The idea that like you can't make money online, it's a pipe dream or whatever. You have to shatter that belief. And yeah, I think it became really tangible for me when I received that first 200 bucks, even though it's not, you know, anything to write home about, but. It became real at that point. And so anyway, speaking of Bitcoin, I wanted to ask you about Bitcoin because I know that you're a Bitcoiner and it's a little bit off-brand for me because I usually don't talk specifically about Bitcoin, but to me, Bitcoin and entrepreneurship, making internet money and all that kind of good stuff goes hand in hand. And the reason I say that
Jeff lundeen:
Yeah.
Brendan Ryan:
is because most people that seek that, most people that try to build their side hustle or build their online business. From my experience, at least a lot of times they're doing it because what they're really after is freedom, whether that be freedom from their golden handcuff job, or they want to recapture their time so they can spend it with their kids or whatever it might be. What they're really searching for is freedom. Like they don't necessarily want to be rich just for being rich's sake. They're actually off after freedom. And having gone down the Bitcoin rabbit hole myself, I've found that Bitcoiners, by and large, are huge freedom lovers, right? If you will, they're very much kind of a libertarian crowd, lots of anarcho-capitalists. So they're like freedom maximalists, you know? And so how did you go down that Bitcoin rabbit hole? Like what was the moment for you that you realized that this is just more than something that can be the speculative investment, but something that actually is really important and could potentially change the world for the better?
Jeff lundeen:
Something that was really important to me is I bought a flight with Bitcoin. So that moment when I actually paid for a flight while I was in Asia with Bitcoin in 2017, I was like, oh shit, this is for real. Like this stuff works. And so I think needing to understand that is something that everybody has to do because once you realize that like, oh, I can actually exchange value for this, that really makes it real. Before then, like I was, while I was discovering Bitcoin, I was traveling through Asia. And I was like, oh yeah, this is worldwide. This makes sense, right? And so as first you go through, I first learned about it in like 2013, and I didn't, I had some, but I didn't, there wasn't enough information, like I said. And so I just like, didn't find it to be valuable and forgot about it, lost it, didn't understand the importance of securing it. And then somebody who made fun of me when I had first talked about Bitcoin, he was like, yeah, I'm gonna invent Matcoin. You wanna buy some of that? And then he started talking about Bitcoin, and I was like, I don't sure remember when you like called me stupid for looking into this. Like, why is it that you've changed your mind? And then he said that he was getting money out of, I think it was sports betting or something like that. Uh, and it was the best way to transfer money. So now when you do something that is not as allowed by not as acceptable, like sports betting, like sports betting is hard to get money in poker, like you said before, once you do something that. You're not allowed to do with PayPal. or visa or something like that with money, then you realize, oh, why can't I, why is it that I can't do those things with PayPal and Visa and whatnot? Like, why are those rules even in place? Right. And then you realize that, okay, well, who makes the rules and what happens if they change the rules? And can I do anything to change the rules? And then when you realize that like, when in Canada, they froze people's bank accounts who were protesting I had heard back in the day, Andreas Antonopoulos talking about if you go to the wrong protest, you could have your funds like frozen. And I was like, yeah, in Russia and then having in Canada. And it's just like, oh my gosh. So like it happened. It's happened so many times over and over again. I heard about people in Venezuela who were like, would make Bitcoin online or get Bitcoin and write down the words, put the thing in their pocket, walk across the border, leave. And if they had any other wealth, they would. have it seized, but then walk across the border into Columbia and then use Bitcoin, like trade, turn the Bitcoin into pesos. So just so many different use cases I've seen.
Brendan Ryan:
That's awesome about the Venezuelan refugees. I didn't hear that one. And I didn't know that, um, Andreas actually kind of almost predicted in a, in a sense that people's money would be seized like that. But yeah, I think that speaks perfectly to why Bitcoiners are such freedom maximalists, right? Because it's this realization that, wait, who's making the rules exactly? And why are they making the rules? Like, why are they making the rules that they're making? If, if I really own this money, I should be able to use it for, Poker or whatever it is, right? Or, you know, be able to... That's crazy. How did you buy a flight with it, by the way?
Jeff lundeen:
I was like, I think maybe I searched, can I buy a flight with it? Or I was searching on Skyscanner and the website that came up was like future travel.io and it offered, it said you can buy with Bitcoin. Bitcoin was $6,000 and I was just the first time on the way up in like November, 2017. And I was like, oh, you can buy with Bitcoin. I have some of that. I'll just spend it and then just buy some more back. So I'm not like at a spot, but I want to see can I actually spend it? And it just worked. And that was like, huh, well, that's cool. So the first Bitcoin that I bought actually was, I met a guy in an REI parking lot. REI is like a sporting goods store. Like I couldn't get my Coinbase account to activate because it was too early and it was asking too many questions. And I like, it felt like a drug deal. Like I was like meeting somebody in winter in his car, his car was like on before I went to the rock climbing gym. And I gave him 50 bucks and he gave me a Bitcoin and when at the time it was $300. And I was like, so do I have it? Like, how do I know that I have it? Like I didn't even, it didn't. makes sense at first initially too. And so I think that people actually have to maybe receive some and move it around in order to understand it as well. Like I've sent many transactions and the more transactions you do, the more you understand protocol. And then you realize like something like a bank wire is such a pain. I have you sent a bank wire recently?
Brendan Ryan:
I actually have to send a wire to my main VA for my Amazon store of a little over $6,000. And he actually asked for 200 of it to be Bitcoin because he hasn't invested in it yet and wanted to trade with it on Binance. So I was like, yeah, of course I'll send you Bitcoin. I love Bitcoin. And so I do the Bitcoin and I'm like, gosh, this is so easy. Versus the wire is such a pain like you get the bank calls you up. You got to pay the big fee and all that stuff. So yeah, it hits home for sure right now. So
Jeff lundeen:
That's amazing.
Brendan Ryan:
what airlines was that by the way? I'm just curious that I've paid for a lot of things with Bitcoin but never airlines.
Jeff lundeen:
So it wasn't the airline directly. It was like a kayak.com or like one of these brokers. And so, yeah, I guess I could have gotten scammed, but none of it worked. So it
Brendan Ryan:
Yeah.
Jeff lundeen:
was somebody, in 2017, there was a lot of different crypto startups, right? This was when the blockchain, not Bitcoin narrative is going around and people thought that like, oh, there's a whole bunch of different things that we can use blockchains for. And it's like, actually no, blockchain is extremely inefficient. It's really dumb to use, except for something when you want the rules to be fair. and nobody will be able to cheat.
Brendan Ryan:
Do you see yourself accepting or using Bitcoin in your businesses in the future?
Jeff lundeen:
Yeah, I would, if somebody wants to, yeah, I would accept, I accept Bitcoin right now. Right.
Brendan Ryan:
Man,
Jeff lundeen:
So.
Brendan Ryan:
I should have paid you that way. That would have been awesome.
Jeff lundeen:
Yeah, so this is interesting about sales though, is it's not, Bitcoin's not widely enough accepted to have that be early on to say, and I accept Bitcoin. If anything like the programming we get about being a salesperson, it programs people to possibly think, oh, is this guy sketchy? Right, don't you think that it already has a little bit of that undertoning?
Brendan Ryan:
Yeah, yeah, it does. And that's in large part because in the past, it really was used for pretty sketchy activities like the whole Silk Road thing and all that kind of stuff. And even, you know, poker is maybe a little bit sketchy or whatever, but increasingly, it's being used for more and more legit things, right? Like El Salvador actually adopted it as an official currency of their nation. So I think especially as we see more nation states adopted. it'll be more widely accepted and that negative reputation will be washed away.
Jeff lundeen:
Yeah, I'm actually probably gonna buy a property in El Salvador because I think that the, what they're doing and how they're moving towards freedom, I think is incredible. And I went to Bitcoin Beach actually, and like at a tienda bought like a Coca-Cola with Bitcoin. And so that was also, just to see, just so I could. And I used the Lightning Network, which I hadn't really had much experience using. It's a different experience for sure. But it again was another. orange pill moment, like you continue to get, it's like when you change one belief, it's not like, I mean, yeah, you potentially are forever different, but then there's more beliefs below that, like an onion and same thing, the more times that you see something being really useful and it actually working, how you were expected to do, the more it becomes real and the more it becomes so obvious.
Brendan Ryan:
Yeah, I think it's an advantage that a lot of people shouldn't be sleeping on as much as they are right now. And what I mean by that is, if you're building an online business right now, I think a lot of people are privy to the idea that you almost have to hire overseas labor because it's so much cheaper to perform these kind of administrative or menial type tasks. I'm referring to virtual assistants or VAs. But in the future, especially for high ticket stuff and moving money around, I think people will finally start to realize the value of Bitcoin because of the lower transaction fees as opposed to sending a wire and paying however much you're getting charged by your bank for the wire, but also because of the essentially instant settlement, right? You're getting it within the next few minutes and it's yours, right? You don't have to wait for that. those funds to clear or settle your bank account. But it just seems like this advantage that nobody's taking advantage, or yeah, that nobody's using.
Jeff lundeen:
Yeah. You might know something crazy. AI can use Bitcoin, right? It can't use dollars. I mean, it could maybe like persuade somebody to do something and use a credit card or something like that, or maybe it could steal a credit card. But without permission, computers and AI can like, it's going to be interesting to see if an AI discovers, oh, Bitcoin is the most important thing. I should just start stacking like crazy, right? That would be really interesting to see if that was a response of what these AIs ended up doing. But the computer to computer transactions, the internet, so Danny Miranda, do you know who he is? He has a killer podcast.
Brendan Ryan:
I know.
Jeff lundeen:
Okay, yeah, highly recommend Danny Miranda. He's got a, he's on Twitter, he's got a killer podcast. But he was saying the internet is still in the first inning. Right, so if you imagine you're the same age I am, right? You're 34. So if you imagine all the stuff that's still coming to the internet that's not even here yet, right? Like maybe now we're in the second inning, but it's still so early, like, oh, a digital currency that you can trade over the internet game. What does that open up for the ability to do business everybody throughout the world. And right now it's not adopted, but what happens when it becomes adopted? What does like the iPhone, right? The iPhone moment was the huge moment for stuff moving to mobile. Now like everything's on mobile and people carry computers everywhere they go. And I think that the trend to go digital is just gonna continue. I actually did a presentation on this for some kids in like a future problem solvers. They're like fifth to ninth grade, really smart. kids. But we're going to continue to spend more time online. I don't see a future where we stop using the internet. Do you?
Brendan Ryan:
No, and to your point, I think that we are also going to see more and more globalization. In other words, like my VA is in Pakistan, for instance, and I actually have been working with him for over a year now and have a good relationship with him. Some people think that globalization is a really bad thing and I understand why, but I think for better or for worse, we're going to spend more time connected to other people across the globe as well as a result of being on the internet, like you're saying.
Jeff lundeen:
Yeah, my VA is also from Pakistan. He's awesome. I've only had him for, I'm through my first month and I can't believe that I ever existed or ran a business without a VA before. That being said, I'm also doing a lot more than I normally have and I just finally have enough stuff to delegate, because that was the thing for the longest time I didn't feel like I had. But yeah, so again, I view life a lot like a video game or from this lens, from this frame, like imagine if your life was a video game. And so nationalism, being very proud of where you're from is essentially like, or being prejudiced from where other people are from is like, you just spawned at some random coordinates. Like good job. Did you have any control over that? No. And so if the guy is, is capable or better at specifically is doing some thing, why would you not want to work with them? And then it's we're so lucky that we speak English like, and have the best internet and resource country. Like it's so. Everybody speaks our language, whereas if you're from Pakistan, you have to learn English and then you have an accent. And you have to then, if you want to progress and make even more money, reduce your accent or progress to become a better communicator.
Brendan Ryan:
That's so true. Yeah. That's so true. Yeah. We are so fortunate in it. Yeah. I think that it's a good thing. I used to be, I actually used to be of the opinion that globalization was kind of a bad thing, but the more I've spent time, like communicating with people over overseas in all kinds of places, not just Pakistan, um, Philippines, Columbia, all kinds of stuff. The more I realized like, it's definitely a good thing. There's a, there's a lot that we. can learn from each other, but also a lot that we can gain from doing business with each other, right? So yeah, I think it's a great thing for that reason. So Jeff, where can people find you if they wanna learn more about who you are, what you do, if they're interested in sales coaching and all that kind of stuff?
Jeff lundeen:
Yeah, Twitter is the best place at Strongjaw sales. I'm actually on all platforms at Strongjaw sales. If you're watching this, you can see I have a well-defined jawline. Just like being born in the US. I don't know if I specifically did anything to earn it, but I believe in using whatever your unfair advantage is or whatever your unique characteristic is as an unfair advantage. So as Strongjaw sales, I'm on TikTok now. I'm on YouTube, I'm on Instagram. I'm not posting anything on Facebook right now, and I'm on Twitter. And so, as far as I'm concerned, I was on all of them. Twitter's the best spot. If you want to DM me, you could also DM me on Instagram, but I don't check that very much.
Brendan Ryan:
And you have a website, jefflundin.com, right?
Jeff lundeen:
Oh, there you go. Yeah. Uh, need to reshoot my VSL too. But yes, you can also go to my website, jefflindy.com. You can see a little bit about, do you know, you can book a call directly there. Uh, and so we can get on a call and discuss, you know, if this would even be possibly a good fit for you. If you're considering getting into sales and you want to like understand what it would take. And you know, especially if you really want to master this skill so that way you can use it later in the rest of your life, then yeah, more than happy to talk with you.
Brendan Ryan:
You mentioned before, before I let you go, you mentioned that Twitter is the best place for you to be found. You're most active on Twitter. Why do you like Twitter the best?
Jeff lundeen:
I don't know, I found it for accident. So I actually found Twitter because of Bitcoin. A friend of mine said, "'You can't be getting your information from Reddit anymore. "'Like where you get your information really matters.' And I feel like Twitter is the best place to discover new ideas. And so I got on Money Twitter, right, is what we call it, and consumed a lot of information, bought a lot of courses. I think last year I spent like 50K on information, right? Courses, mentorships, whatever. And even starting early on, I bought more than 20 courses or something like that. And I did or applied what was in them. Like same thing with books. Maybe I didn't complete the whole thing, but I got so much out of applying the first, even sometimes 30%, that then that usually it's more like 60 or 80%, but I learned something which then allowed me to get better and to eventually get to the spot where I'm at. And so I just think, yeah, investing in yourself and continuing to learn, learning how to learn is probably the most important skill in order to... kill your job and like literally just to work online, right? Because that's what this whole conversation is about is how do you make money on the internet essentially, or is the best way to leave your job to make money on the internet. And I think it's undoubtedly true just based on how the world is now.
Brendan Ryan:
Yeah, yeah for sure. So guys if you're listening to this on YouTube especially, please give me a like and subscribe and what Jeff is saying I think is absolutely spot on. If you're looking to make money online, make that internet money, be able to eventually kill your job with it, it is 100% possible. The most important thing is to start, to take action. Pick a skill, whether it's copywriting or sales, or lead generation. e-commerce, trading, the list goes on and on, right? Pick a skill and invest in it. You're gonna have to spend some money for good, high quality mentorship, education on things like masterminds or courses or coaching. And do it and start stacking the skills like Jeff was talking about earlier. So if you're thinking about doing it guys, I commend you, please do it because I think that the world needs more entrepreneurs because entrepreneurs solve problems. So... Join me, join Jeff, make the transition from employee to entrepreneur and we will see you on the other side. Thank you for listening.