F*ck Fear with Christine Spratley: Living Like a Head Bitch In Charge | LUVE: The 4-Part Code for Communicating with Anyone

LUVE: The 4-Part Code for Communicating with Anyone—Without Losing Your Cool, Your Credibility, or Your Mind”

In this episode of 'Fuck Fear,' Christine Spratley introduces the concept of LUVE (Listen, Understand, Validate, Empathize) as a way to improve relationships and communication. She explains how this approach, inspired by various experts and personal experiences, can help navigate difficult conversations and enhance emotional connections. Through engaging stories and practical advice, Christine encourages listeners to apply these principles not only to their interactions with others but also to themselves, promoting self-empathy and understanding. Join Christine and co-host Joe as they explore this transformational approach to love and relationships.

00:00 Introduction and Shots
01:46 Discussing Relationships and LUVE
06:46 The Importance of Listening
14:05 Understanding Without Agreement
22:25 Perception vs. Reality
24:24 Challenging Assumptions and Logic
25:02 Understanding Different Perspectives
26:53 Navigating Personal Conflicts
31:05 The Power of Validation
38:04 Empathy and Presence
44:26 Self-Empathy and Personal Growth
49:54 Applying LUVE to Yourself

Creators and Guests

Host

Christine (HBIC) Spratley

Dynamic Public Speaker | Change Catalyst | Career Navigation Coach

What is F*ck Fear with Christine Spratley: Living Like a Head Bitch In Charge ?

This podcast is for anyone who wants to live like an HBIC—or lives with, works with, marries, dates, or is raising one. Let’s be real: being a Head Bitch in Charge is messy, bold, and unapologetically badass. This is not a guidebook—it’s a pantry.

My guests and I will share the ingredients that we use—what’s worked and what’s failed—as we say “fuck fear” and take action to live a fulfilled life. We cover real-life hacks and deep philosophical pillars to navigate the chaos of everyday life—where some days, my only accomplishment is having a bra on and my teeth brushed.

We’re tackling the daily shit women navigate, from workplace politics to relationships, raising kids, and building careers, all with humor, audacity, and zero filters.

So, tune in—tell your friends, and even your enemies. This isn’t about aging with grace—it’s about aging with mischief, audacity, and a damn good story to tell.

34 Fuck Fear LUVE intro
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Christine Spratley: [00:00:00] All right. Welcome to Fuck Fear with Christine Spratley.

We're ready to do our shots, Joe. Yeah, I'm ready. Okay. It's the same one. Another Immortality. Boost. Yeah, immortality. All right. Ready to go.

Joe Woolworth: Ooh. If people wanted to do shots with us, where would they get this delicious beverage?

Christine Spratley: Let me see. Are they a [00:01:00] sponsor? No, but you can be and we'll do your shots. As long as they're not alcoholic. Well, you could do the alcohol one. I'll, I'll stay into the non-alcoholic stuff. No seriously, ladies, actually, that's juice vibes and no, they have not become sponsors yet.

My mouth is still puckering. That was a strong one. That was a strong lemon one this morning. There's a lot

Joe Woolworth: of lemon in that one.

Christine Spratley: Yeah. Not as much. Pepper my eyes. Look at my eye, Joe. My left eye is just jacked. It won't open.

Joe Woolworth: I feel like I just ate a whole lemon.

Christine Spratley: Ah, my left eye will not open. I'm sorry, ladies, gentlemen, everybody in between.

I've got a malfunction happening in my left eye and my right brain. Oh, okay. Well, today I am not excited about our podcast. No, I'm just, I'm kidding. Actually, I always say Today is the day. Today is the day. Today is the day, actually, I am, I'm getting ready to do kind of a, a little series [00:02:00] and basically I came across this phrase actually my counselor, my, my therapist brought it up to me.

And we were talking about relationships and friendships and, you know, just relationships is everything. Not just romantic, but just everything and really understanding what a relationship needs to be for me. And I was, we were talking and she says, well, it sounds like love. And I said, what? And she said, yeah, LUVE.

And Joe, have you ever heard that love LUDI mean, as the

Joe Woolworth: cutesy phrase, like misspelled on a t-shirt or something? Yeah.

Christine Spratley: No. It's purposefully done that. Well, what this is, is it's a, an interesting [00:03:00] concept and it's not, from what I can tell and from what I've talked with her about, it's not a specific. Therapy or, you know, module or anything like that, but it, it stands for LUVE. Listen, understand, validate, and empathize. Okay?

Why this kind of matters and where you might be, kind of wherever you're listening at today, whether it be work, whether it be a romantic relationship, your spouse, your lover, your boyfriend, your auntie, your whoever. Whether it be with your kids, whether it be with your besties, whether it be with the neighbor next door who you mows their lawn at eight o'clock in the morning on a, you know, Sunday morning you know, wherever I.

I think that it really, when I started to, or when she explained it to me and then I started doing some reading and much [00:04:00] thinking like I do, especially on my flight over or actually flight home. I was thinking about it from Paris. This is really interesting because I think it allows people to.

It allows people to have difficult conversations for me without losing my shit. And it also allows me to kind of hold my, not hold my ground, but not acquiesce my point of view sometimes. As much as it is just, just taking a break, it's like, you're gonna sit this, you're just gonna sit and listen.

You're gonna understand, you're gonna validate and you're gonna empathize. And where, what it. What I like about it is it's a mashup of, of some of the kind of the people. And this is my own mashup, this is how I put it together. And again, if you haven't figured out by now, this is kind of my take on things.

So [00:05:00] no one's prescribed this to me, but to me it pulls from Brene, Brene Brown's research on empathy. The Gottman's work on emotional attunement and relationships, which their relationship therapy and Simon Sinek, who I love leadership principles around listening to understand, not to react. And then, you know me, I love sports and one of my all time favorites coach is John Wooden and amazing, legendary UCLA coach.

He modeled it. The communication long before any of the TED Talk stages and things like that. But it's a mashup of a lot of those principles and you can use it on anything. So today, what your assignment is when you get done with this is pick one relationship. Any relationship, [00:06:00] particularly one.

I would challenge you to maybe pick one that. You, I have a coffee mug for this one, Joe. Haven't sent it out yet, but it, it's one that this says, how can I politely tell somebody I wanna hit them upside the head with a brick? You know? So maybe a relationship where you're like, oh my God, they're opening their mouth again.

And, and just. Try it. I'm really curious to see what feedback you get and Joe, I'm really curious to see, not that you have any of these relationships. Definitely not with me or your wife, or your kid or your girls. 'cause I know she's getting ready to go to go to college, but, you know, in, in different relationships.

Try it. Try it. So, Elle listen, sounds good, right? Sounds easy. But we've all heard of active listening. But it's listening to understand, not to respond. And there's [00:07:00] a great and, and this will be following up because what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna go through this today and then I'm gonna go through each one of these in an individual segment because each one of them are kind of stand on their own.

And you can literally get so much out of. Just the listening part. So when I go and I listen, but I don't listen to respond and there's this great talk out there and it's by Michael Bengay, Bunge. Stainer Stanner, and I don't know if it's Stanner or Stanner, S-T-A-N-I-E-R. Stanner probably.

It came out I think in two, I can't remember when it came out, but it's a Ted talk of his, and I think it was 2020. It [00:08:00] came out. And I remember watching this when I was going through coaching and it's called the Advice Monster. And we'll get into listening and I'll go through that. But if you haven't heard of it or seen it, watch it.

It's on YouTube. But it's great. And it's all about how we get in there. And I, as soon as you start talking. I am diagnosing and prescribing, I am giving you my answer, my thoughts, what you know, advice and I'm not listening to really understand. And I've tried really hard since becoming a coach because again, I thought coaching at, when I first started was about giving advice and it's, it's, it's not at all.

But I had to start listening to understand. I. Not understand is in it needs to make sense. You what you're telling me needs to make sense to me, which will take us into the next one. [00:09:00] It's listening to understand more about, hey, understanding, hey, this is where you're coming from. Oh, given your set of circumstances, giving your environment.

I can see where you could think that way. Okay, I get it. But we often call this active listening. And you'll hear people say, go on. Tell me more about that. What does that mean? What does that look like? Really, I'm listening. You know, I wanna understand the whole picture. These are great ways, especially if you're a guy and you're talking with someone, even anybody who's struggling to really open up or you just can't quite.

You're looking at 'em and you're like, man, I don't get this. Well, just tell me more about that. I wanna understand the whole picture. And it really is something very small. But not only [00:10:00] do you use the phrases, but literally you've heard me talk about curiosity before. Be curious when you're listening, be curious.

Be like, oh wow, look at their, I do this in coaching. I look at their facial expressions. And I'd be like, oh wow, your eyes just bolted. I mean, they just bolted up and bloomed up and you got the smile on your face and you know, what's, what's that about? You know? And they'll chime in and they'll tell you, you know, but again, it's listening not with my response in mind.

And you know, there's that phrase about don't ever worry about what people you know when you're up speaking or whatever, because they're not really listening. They're only thinking about what they're gonna come back with. And you know, Joe, I'm sure that's never happened to you where you

Joe Woolworth: Yeah, sure.

Christine Spratley: Are you listening?

Weren't you ready for that response?

Joe Woolworth: I I am bad at that, and it's something that I'm, I've been trying to work on. I'd like to say I've gotten a little bit better, but I don't know if I have.

Christine Spratley: Where are [00:11:00] you the worst with it?

Joe Woolworth: In an argument? Yeah. Because I'm trying to win instead of listen like an idiot.

Christine Spratley: Mm-hmm. What's interesting too is, and this is kind of for me, one of the best ways and I had to learn this the hard way in negotiation. One of the best ways for me to win in a negotiation or in an argument is if I'm actually listening, I. Because I didn't, that's my sound. I've gotta turn my sound on my computer off.

I was always preparing, but I hadn't heard the complete sentence. And so it was always, Ooh, here's my rebuttal, but it was the rebuttal to the first half of theirs and not their dramatic end or their clincher. And so I would miss it. But yeah, and that's why I think this is really interesting because I've.

I've been practicing this [00:12:00] specifically, so I'm listening. But the second piece of coming in, in a little bit would be to understand, and this is where I switch from being a defensive person, I, listening, listening, just to listen and not to respond, but to hear. Because then my, there's no real need for me to respond because I don't have anything to defend.

And, I'll, I'll kick off understand in a second, but one of the things that I thought I really liked about this is John Wooden's quote about, if you wanna be, if you wanna be heard, listen, if you want to be heard. And I think that is also I've learned in negotiations and also in relationships.

That if I really want people on the other side of the table to take me seriously, the best thing I can [00:13:00] do is to stop talking and to listen and give their pregnant pause or airtime between when they finish and allow myself to, to, to speak. Because really if someone, you know, if someone's just talking at me all the time, I pretty much put them in the asshole category and tune 'em out and they could have valid things.

I'm hanging around some people right now that let me talk way too much, and so I've had to literally go, I'm not, I'm, I'm done talking. Y'all need doc. And but it is, it's John Wooden's quote here is, listen, if you want to be heard. So if you want to be heard on whatever, whoever, whatever relationship you're in, that you're gonna bring this to listen.[00:14:00]

And that'll help you be heard, but also listen to understand rather than to respond. So that takes us into understand now the key message here. Because is that I don't have to agree. Okay. For me to understand my understanding of what you're saying does not mean agreement. It doesn't have to make logical sense in my head.

I can think what you're saying is batshit crazy and go, I get how you say that. I don't know how I could see that, but I get how you could see that. And sometimes people say that, you know, with me it's like but I'm like, do you know my history? Do you know what I'm going through right now? Like, do you know, like if you understand those things about me, then what I'm saying probably lines up a little bit.

And [00:15:00] that I think is really an important thing because when I try to apply my logic. To make to, to say, well, I can only understand it based on my logic. Then it's one of those things where it's like, oh, then I'm stuck to my perspective and not yours. Then I'm limited to my knowledge and not your knowledge and not your experience.

I mean, think about screwed up. You know, if you're listening to this, think of how, how. How dull and boring and screwed up your life would be if your life just included your own experiences and your own knowledge, and nothing from anybody else, not anybody else's perspective or anything like that. And so when I take and think about music for a second, how many times have we all listened to songs?

And we understand 'em perfectly, and then we get [00:16:00] the, the, the songwriter or the artist will be like, yeah, this is a story behind that. And you'll be like, what you, Jill, you're laughing.

Joe Woolworth: Yeah. I, I never get that. Right. I thought you were gonna go the way of like, misunderstanding the lyrics for a long time.

Well, that too.

Christine Spratley: That too. But it makes sense to us, right? It makes sense to me. And therefore it is that way until you learn and go, oh, that wasn't what they, those weren't the words. Oh, that wasn't what they meant by using those words. And again, it's, I don't have to agree with you, and this is the part for me where I have to, I have the opportunity to stop defending my point of view.

When I listen to understand, and then I go into understand and I start to go, okay, where, where are you coming from? Like how, how did you get here? How does two plus two equals seven? [00:17:00] What? And the great thing about that is, to me, two plus two will always equal four. Okay. I don't need to tell you that it equals four.

Like, it it, you know? Yes. There are times when you're like, well, I'm gonna argue this point or so, but if you, I, if I'm listening to understand, even if I'm, if I'm trying to understand how you got seven, it's kinda like, show your math when you're a little kid and, and you show your math and they can go, oh, this is, see this is here.

Now walk you through that again, like. I know it's new math and all that, which was so hard. I can't even imagine the math that they have now. When, when, and I was never good with math 'cause I was dyslexic with numbers and I was just jumbling in my head. And so my ex would always do 'em with the kids, but I would always sit there and go, you know, show your work.

And then they could see where it would be, [00:18:00] where the, either the disconnect was or how they got there. And so much of. What's interesting is when I start to understand, I start to look for cues. I start to ask questions to help me not disprove them, but to go. So you're saying two plus two equals four, so that means you're seeing two as a three and like, like, you know, you're saying it's seven.

So like how did you know? Like tell me more about that. I become curious to understand. Not to be ative. And this is where the fine line for me gets, because when I'm dealing with someone who has repeatedly argued with me, then I take their questions as not just being curious. I take their questions as anything you say can and will be held against you and will be disproved.

And it's gotta be in this logic thing. It's not about logic. [00:19:00] It's about going in my, in that person's mind. Whatever they're telling you, whatever they believe right now, it's the way they believe it and it's makes sense to them until it doesn't anymore. So, okay, how'd you get there? All right. You know, and I'm not saying you're not gonna have arguments.

I'm not gonna say that there aren't rights and wrongs, and I'm not saying all of that. When I'm listening to someone and I'm showing a person that I profess to love, it's different when if I don't give a shit about your ass. Okay? I may not bring all of this understanding, niceties to the mix, but when I am in a relationship, in a friendship, in a romantic relationship, in a, in a, in my marriage, whatever, my ex or whatever, if I am trying to.

Care about you then? I [00:20:00] don't really need to defend myself there. I need to, I get an opportunity to go, huh? I don't have to agree with you. I just have to understand how it makes sense to you. Okay. Tell me more about your thought process here. And it's understanding is cognitive. It's not about matching feelings.

Which is, again, it's stepping into their logic, not mine, which I think, and Joe, I'm curious as a, as a guy, is that ever hard for you when you're dealing with some. Sometimes a female that, that may not be on the same wavelength as your logic, because I know you're very technical.

Joe Woolworth: Yeah, I think, I think there's, there's something, I mean, stereotypes are there because they, they happen often, right?

Mm-hmm. So you got things like girl math and [00:21:00] things like. Those statements of like not understanding the way stuff works, but I dunno, everybody, everybody just a statement

Christine Spratley: alone is like a torch in this thing, Joe. You understand that. You just, you see this. What so funny is you have absolutely. Not understand, see girl math and not, and then, and then shortly followed by the phrase of not understanding the way things work.

You have no idea that she just napalmed this like, like, that's okay though. I get it.

Joe Woolworth: I meant it, I meant it as like, I don't understand the way things work, but yeah. But good clarification point, I have, everybody in my life is female, right? Like in my house, my dogs are girls. And so I, I I've made, I've made peace with this, but I'm not always great at it.

And I do think that I create tension oftentimes when I feel like it's more important that something is technically correct than the relationship or just. Was actually happening. Like the conversation might not be about being technically correct, but you're like [00:22:00] there you go. And did, you know, you know, and it's, it's not what people are talking about.

Christine Spratley: And is there ever a possibility that technically in their mind it's correct.

Joe Woolworth: Yeah. I mean, that's a tough lesson. Yeah. And I think, I wanna say that I've learned it. There's been many times in my life where I was presented with the opportunity to learn it, but and there anymore. But I do think that it's tough for people to understand, and it's been tough for me to understand that perception is reality when I want to be like, but isn't reality.

Reality, that's not important. Mm-hmm. Perception is reality. Mm-hmm. It's more important. It's more important that what people heard. Is more important to the relationship than what was actually said or intended.

riverside_i_luve you_raw-synced-video-cfr_fuck_fear_0050: Mm-hmm.

Christine Spratley: I like the phrase stepping into their logic. And I will go to a [00:23:00] point on this and I, I've said it, I've told this story one other time, at least one other time, I'm sure.

So. My ex is very like, watch, boom, boom, boom, boom. And if it doesn't, if it doesn't make, if the dots don't align and someone moves his cheese, you we're gonna have, we're gonna have some discussion about that. And so I always thought that, so we were having a discussion one night, I'll call it a discussion.

Other people may call it an argument. And he's like, I, I mean, just could not, he's like, you're not, you're not being logical. And I was, I was just, I knew I was right though. And so I was, but I knew that there was no way, like I had lost the argument in that particular case, but it just ate at me all fucking night.

And so I got up the next morning and I was [00:24:00] sitting, I was getting in the bathroom and I was getting ready and I was, and this is when I started to love like Google and chat and all that because I asked, I asked Google, I said, Hey, can someone have a logical argument but still be wrong?

And you're sitting over there nodding. So you obviously are the technical person on this and you're like, of course. Yeah. I

Joe Woolworth: mean, just think about science. How many things we thought were true, that the logical David just wrong. Your

Christine Spratley: assumptions are based, are are incorrect. So for me, so immediately I did the, you know, I walked the high road in the relationship.

So I immediately, since his ass got fucking up, I told him, you're fucking wrong and this is why you're wrong, is your assumptions were wrong and therefore, even though you had a logical process. So yes, I am not perfect. I get in people's shit and I do not listen to understand all the time. But I was [00:25:00] right.

No, I'm teasing. But one of the things that it did teach me was their logic. Stepping into their logic is not about stepping outta mine and it doesn't their logic of how they got there and everything, but a lot of it, when I get into some, sometimes the political debates that I get into, sometimes I, I, I look around what has colored the, some people's lives.

Then I go, Ooh, that is what, that's what's coming outta your mouth. That is how two plus two equal seven. That is because of this, that, and the other. And then they can look at me and go, Ooh, you had this. Like, oh, okay. But it's stepping into another person's logic and this is the great thing about them being the other person that is not me.

So by me going, yeah, I see that your logic's there. You know, it doesn't [00:26:00] mean that my logic or the way that I see them or the technical aspects of it that I believe are true are any less true. And I think we come into a hard point sometimes when it's like, and, and again, this is just me. I'm not, I am no altruistic saint, you guys, you know me by now, Joe.

Sometimes I'm like, yeah, I'm stepping into your logic. I can see where you came to go with that, and maybe you need to go get some therapy. Maybe, maybe, maybe you should drink a little bit more or less. You know, I'm not, I I, I don't say all those things sometimes, but usually it goes, oh, I can see how you think that.

Yeah, that's, you're fucked up. But I can see that. I don't say that all the time, but again, I, it gives me the ability to go, oh, I get it. I get how you got there. And, so it, it could be like, an example of this [00:27:00] was recently I had an interaction with a friend of mine and things just went sideways real quick.

And I'm sitting here just racking my brain going that like, you, that is not how this played out. Like, I did not, I did not intend that. Like, and I kept going, Hey, I didn't mean to do that. And they were like, yeah, you did. Like, this is what you said. And, and I was like, I'm, I mean, everything in my body was like, I didn't fucking say that.

And so what I, what I did was I was living, preparing for this. I was like, fuck, now I gotta practice what I preach. So I was like, all right, how do I get to where that, where, where, where she's at? And so I took a step back and I was like, all right, this was the situation. What am I not picking up that she's picking up on?

What does not matter to me that matters to her. In that situation, when I said this, what was my tone? [00:28:00] Who was in the room? And there happened to be a person in the room that is never around her and I, and so I basically had said some things that I may have been in private between us. Two that no big deal.

Since there was a new person in into this room, in the room, felt, I could see where she could feel extremely exposed and where my words were very cutting and very mean. And then that was a really hard pill for me to swallow because then that means I was kind of an ass without trying to be an ass, you know?

And it's easier for me to say, I'm sorry when I meant to hurt you. It's hard for me to go like, then you just like, then you just gotta let 'em, you gotta let 'em be mad and go, yeah, I fucked up. Sorry. Not bad. Ouch. But that's when I get the opportunity to [00:29:00] go maybe what the situation around me is not how everybody experiences it.

And I think that is also what's really amazing is that we all. Come from our own experiences, our own environments, and we're bumping around here. You know, you hear me say a lot of times life's a contact sport, put on your pads and play, and we're just kind of bumping around in our own ignorance and this is a good time for me when I'm in the you stage.

It's not the o the love, it's the you, the understanding stage. Oh, I see how you got there. I see how that could make you think, feel, say, do whatever that way. Now there are some things that I just don't get. I don't but very few of those times are those with am I in a relationship with somebody where [00:30:00] I go, Ooh, yeah, I don't get that at all.

Now. There have been times in relationships where I've been like, Ooh, I get where you're at. I get that logic for you. I get that. I don't wanna be in a relationship anymore with you. But again, it's this opportunity for me to step into their logic and not mine. And then I don't have to defend mine. I just get to go, okay, how do I make this?

How do I make this right? What do you want me to do? [00:31:00] So the next one is. The V the validate and again, it's almost like I can't get to V if I don't have the understanding because the validation means that someone's feelings 'cause the, the understanding is the cognitive. I can see how you got there from here.

And usually there's a feeling attached to how they got there or once they're there. But it's, the validation means that someone's feelings make sense based on their experience, even though you saw it differently. And I think this is the hardest for me when I really care about somebody because, and you talked about it a little bit earlier, Joe, is when I'm, when I realize, you know, I've gone from that cognitive state to that emotional state of [00:32:00] Oh wow.

They really are hurt. I really pissed them off. I didn't have that experience at all but this is how they've experienced it and those feelings are valid. And my feeling of self-righteousness or my feeling of technically that's not correct. Which usually comes from a wanting to be superior, even though I'm feeling inferior.

Again, it's not about me. It's looking at someone I care about and going, okay, and I'm not talking about relationships that. Are abusive. I'm not talking about relationships where someone's just take, take, take, take, take, take, take and never give you any air or breathing room or space. But I'm talking about [00:33:00] the ones where you're like, yeah, I, this is worth some effort.

This is worth, this person that I choose to care about is worth some effort and this is the bridge. You know, it's, you are not crazy for feeling what you feel. And you know, you're not like when I'm validating or saying that, I'm not saying whether they're right. And again, what I'm validating is that what they felt is real to them.

And again, this is different from understanding, is more cognitive validating is more on the emotional side of what they feel. And so it's like, and I think about all the times where. I've, I've known. I wasn't maybe technically on point, but man, it sure hurt. And so I just wanted someone to [00:34:00] validate like how I felt like, God, I can, I can see how you felt that way and, and that, that, that really must have sucked for you.

That must really hurt. You are not crazy. This is one of the things where I think is so wild about, you hear a lot about gaslighting and women. We, we, we do that a we hear that a lot and we experience that a lot. And I think, I think men get gas lit a lot too. I think that they, you guys get it in a different way.

But I think that it's, the whole idea is that what I'm feeling, I shouldn't be. Whatever, it's, I shouldn't be feeling it and therefore it needs to stop and then I am basically bat, you know, batshit crazy for doing that, for feeling that way, and there's just such a sense of absolute [00:35:00] trust and relief with someone when I hear on my end, Hey.

That must hurt. I hear you hurting. You hurting. Yeah. You're not crazy for feeling that way. No, no. And I'm sure Joe, you've had that and you know, being around four women, I'm sure you've had times in your relationships with any of them where you've, you've gone and you've realized. Wow. They're really almost scared to tell me how they feel or show me how they feel because they're gonna think I'm crazy.

Joe Woolworth: Yeah. I don't know if it's. I don't know if I've experienced, I don't think I have experienced Oh, that's great. Gaslighting from any of the ladies in, oh, I'm

Christine Spratley: not saying guessing. I think gas, I think gaslighting from men come from males.

Joe Woolworth: Yeah. I don't, I

Christine Spratley: think male alpha males. Yeah. I can't think of fucking gaslight [00:36:00] the shit shit outta you, you guys.

I can't think of. Yeah, lemme clarify that. When I met gaslighting of men, I tend to think more of that shit happens with men on men crime.

Joe Woolworth: Oh, okay.

Christine Spratley: Yeah, but I, what I was, yeah, it's

Joe Woolworth: mostly playful. Like mostly like guys really rag on each other a lot. But you know, like with any kind of insult, there's always that kernel of truth that can hurt your feelings in there.

You're, that didn't hurt. That's that didn't hurt. It didn't hurt.

Christine Spratley: You're stupid bitch. You stupid doesn't hurt. But it is, it is amazing. You know. How that part of validation is actually respect and respectful of a very basic element in human, which is feeling. And you know, it's the validation [00:37:00] creates an accountable accountability with dignity.

When I am, the best way I can explain this is when I'm with someone that I trust who has earned that trust by validating by, you know, and that doesn't always mean like I'm always right Andre in every argument, but they have, they have listened to understand, not to respond. They have understood where I'm com, they have stepped into my logic and then they validate.

What has happened from that is I hold myself to a higher accountability of my emotional integrity, my logic, and also my ability to tell them I'm wrong.

And it's an accountability with dignity where I don't feel like I have to defend. I get to just be me who I am [00:38:00] and show up and go, Ooh, my bad on that. So the next one is e empathize, and you know, empathy means feeling with someone. Not for them, not instead of them, and definitely not over them. But when you, you know, it's, it's the, the heart part of the love.

You know, the moment when you, you are, you kind of go from standing over there. I see it. I step into your logic. Okay. I, I understand that. Okay, now I am, I am validating it. And now you go, oh wow. And this was with my friend the other day, and is that I realized how for her to be that angry

and, and say some of the things she said, [00:39:00] she had to be that hurt and then that hurt. I was like, wow, that's, that's pretty painful. And and I, I, I was part of the cause of that, if not the whole cause of that. And I, I, I don't get to fix it. And that is really a, a, a interesting place for me to be at. When you get to.

I had the opportunity to empathize with someone, and it not always be, oh, I'm empathizing with you on pain that someone else has put on them, but pain you've actually put on them. And you get to stand there and go, okay, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna stay here and I'm not going go anywhere. You [00:40:00] know? You know, it's almost like when I, when people do this with me and they empathize with me.

Sometimes it's like, you know, when your kids were little and they would just, they would get, they would scream and they'd be so angry or they'd be hurting and they'd just, and you just hold them really tight and you just or maybe you don't have children, but you would sit next to your buddy and they would just cry and there wasn't anything you could say.

There wasn't anything you could do. But you just go, okay, I am, I'm here. I'm not moving. You didn't necessarily say anything, or you gave that person that hug and they started to pull away and you, and you held on 'em to it just a little bit more, and then they broke and the tears started coming out and, and you stood with them in their emotion [00:41:00] and you, you just.

You know, you don't match always that, that experience for them, but you're, you're, you're in it. You know, I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna feel as much as I can feel with you right here, right now, and I'm not gonna leave you by the wayside. And this is really important for me right now in my life, not only to try and give, which is hard.

It's, it's not hard when it's easy and that, that sounds crazy, but it's not, it's not hard When I'm empathizing again, on, on, on. I love to show up for people. I'm a giver, so I love to show up for people, but when it's pain that I've caused, or conflict that I've caused, or emotions that I've caused that are, that are not the fun ones then it's much harder for me to just stay in there with you and hold that with you.

[00:42:00] And, and lets you deal with it as you place. You know? And it's not so much a performances, it's just a presence. I mean, Joe, have you ever had anybody in your life that just was present with you in a time of joy or sorrow and, and, and, and you're just like, you're not alone, and, and you just knew that by their presence?

Yeah, sure.

Joe Woolworth: Mm-hmm.

Christine Spratley: I mean, I think that's some of the most amazing gifts that you can give somebody. You know, I think back, you know, your background and what you used to do and everything. I think that's probably sometimes what people seek.

Joe Woolworth: Yeah. You're talking about like when I was a pastor and stuff?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, there's all kinds of. Examples of that, like even weird stuff. Like I remember when I was a youth [00:43:00] pastor, you know, they won't let parents go visit their kids in a psych ward, but they'll let their youth pastor Yep. Go visit 'em. And there's nothing to say. And you know, you're just there and you're just being there for somebody.

And then, you know, the parents always wanna know like, what'd they say? And it's like, it really wasn't what it was. It was just, yeah. They just needed somebody to be there 'cause it's scary. You know. But yeah, definitely.

Christine Spratley: It's, it's funny that you bring that up because I was in a psych ward. You knew that, right?

You knew that with my background. Yeah. I heard, yeah. When I, when I was, the last time I tried to commit suicide I was 17 and, and they didn't let my parents go in there, thank God. But yeah, I understand the rule. Yeah, but it stinks. But it is amazing to have someone else come and empathize with you.

And that's what's also incredible is that. That's the power of presence. It doesn't have to necessarily be blood or family or the people that you think need to show up in your life or should [00:44:00] show up in your life. It's who's actually standing beside you, allowing you to have that space. And, and also within that space, you get to grow and change.

And I, I think that the more I huddled up that space inside of me because there wasn't any empathy. And sometimes this is kind of out there, maybe, I don't know. But for me, sometimes the hardest person to give empathy to is myself and to give myself presence with my emotions. And. I've been dealing a lot.

Hear me out guys. I've been dealing a lot with my back issues and I moved last week I flew from Paris to to Raleigh and then moved and just did way too [00:45:00] much, way too much. And so yesterday when I went to pt I kind of had just disassociated with, with my back and I said, ah, I'm done. I'm not, not checking into this pain, we're just gonna gut it out.

And that's what I do when, when I, when I get into pain and I got into PT and the lady, the Emily was, you know, she's not, you've shut down your whole nervous system, so you need we're, we gotta fire it up. So she started, she goes, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna start firing it up for you. What that means when she does that is she starts.

Pushing on the things in my back, which are the, the nerves and the different things. And, and I just was like, and it was, she's like, you need to be here and you need to breathe through it and you need to be in this pain. Like you need to reengage this so it can do what it's supposed to do. 'cause I was so far gone out of it and I immediate and I didn't [00:46:00] immediately, but I started crying and then I just started crying and.

Last night I was, I was sitting there and what I, or yesterday afternoon, it was more than last night, but I was sitting there and I was like, I started crying again and it was the pain in my back. But it was more about, and this was the being empathetic towards yourself and giving yourself the presence and allowing yourself to be where you're at emotionally, wherever.

It was, I had been, you know, I'm, I'm single again. I am 54, gonna be 55 this year. And what I realized through all of this stuff I've been doing with this back stuff is that I may not always be able to take care of myself. And as a person that is [00:47:00] fiercely independent and fiercely, I can do it myself. To, to sit with that and to allow myself to sit there and deal with that emotion of fear and of uncertainty, and not just go, well, you're gonna, you're gonna buck it up.

You're gonna, you know, God's always provided and you know, yeah. What, that's all true. But right here, right now, I just got to sit there and go, wow. That's, that's, that's really hard. That's really hard. And, and, but I did. And then I was, you know, I gave myself that presence. And I think, like I said, it's the hardest thing sometimes is to be present for myself and give myself empathy.

And what I've also learned is the, the less empathy I have for myself, the less empathy I give to other people. I, 'cause if I don't tolerate the emotion in, [00:48:00] in me. I don't like tolerating that shit in other people. You know, some of the most intolerable people I know, or let me turn this around. I am the most intolerant of people when I see the emotions in them that I can't, that I can't stand in myself or that I see as weak in myself.

And that's. That's a really interesting part for me to be honest about. I didn't really think I was gonna tell you guys about that part. But I just, I, I thought this was such a unique way to look at love. 'cause we talk about love and I, you've heard me say love to me is an action and, and it's not an emotion.

It's, it's an action. And when I put it in those terms and it's listen, without interrupting or [00:49:00] fixing or to respond or to defend or to get my point across, it's the U instead of the L. It's the understand their version of the story and not just mine. Go, oh, that's how you got there. Oh, okay. And it, by doing that, it opens up so many different perspectives and points of view, and then to validate.

Their emotional truth is their emotional truth, you know, and it's what they're feeling. And we can say why, how, if you know all that. But that's it. And then empathize that they're, that you see it, that they're there, that it's okay to be where they are emotionally with that. And you know, when I turn this into myself.

When we talk about, you know, you can't love someone else until you love yourself. I mean, what, what, when's the last time you, the listener, [00:50:00] has listened to yourself without responding, without fixing, without editing, without criticizing, without saying, well, that's just not, that's just not the way we think.

That's just stupid. Fuck up girl. Come on. Fix your lipstick and move on. You know, when have I just said okay to myself? I'm gonna understand where you got, where, where'd that crazy idea come from? Because I have a lot of crazy thoughts. I have a lot of crazy logic. And instead of going, okay, let's get that out here.

Want me just go, okay, let's think where, how'd you get there? And then go, it's okay to feel what you're feeling.

For as long as it takes, and sometimes the presence to be there and validate is really hard to show yourself empathy. So I [00:51:00] gave you an assignment when we first started this and you know, yes, take that assignment out there, but also take it to yourself. See what LUVE means when you start applying that to yourself and what type of relationship you have with you.

And just see what it happens. I mean, wherever you're at right now, you're enough, you are enough. So just you know, love yourself. A little bit differently, a little bit more in different ways, and see what that does. And we've got a couple, I'm gonna go through each of these letters one by one, and we're gonna explore them a little bit [00:52:00] more.

And we're gonna do it in a fun way. We're not just gonna do it in a sappy, mushy, therapeutic way, but, you know, I've got some oldies but goodies, examples of my misdeeds and misfortunes. But until then, ladies, gentlemen, everyone in between tubs,