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If you're a spiritually-minded person in the beautiful, messy process of creating your life and asking the hard questions then you just found your people. Middle Ground is hosted by life coach and mom Brynne Erickson, and is a space for the real, honest, sometimes uncomfortable conversations about faith, identity, relationships, health, personal growth and much more. With roots in Latter-day Saint (Mormon) faith and culture, this show explores the full, multidimensional experience of being human and becoming more with genuine curiosity about the many other ways of living and believing. Because the more honestly we see each other, the better we love ourselves and the people around us.
Brynne Erickson (01:05)
All right, Ryan and Stevie Peterson. I'm so excited to be chatting with you guys tonight. How are you feeling about being here on middle ground?
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (01:15)
We are excited. Never been on a podcast before.
I was just excited when you texted me because actually I work with Hannah You know Hannah?
Brynne Erickson (01:24)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (01:25)
Yeah, she was talking about she listens to your podcast and we were talking about it at work and I said guess who texted me to be on her podcast. I was super excited.
Brynne Erickson (01:32)
Awesome. Yes. Love Hannah. She's so sweet thrilled to have you guys. He's a good friend of mine and She and I were chatting once she had met this nice man Ryan and They were engaged and she had mentioned that they were having pre marriage counseling and I had never Heard of that before in my life and was super intrigued
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (01:36)
who has this.
Brynne Erickson (01:55)
And when I actually first started this podcast, I thought of you guys and I was like, I should probably give them a little bit of time to actually experience being married. And then we'll chat about this pre-marriage counseling and see how it helped or didn't help. We're to talk about all the things today. So first off, how is married life going?
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (02:15)
It has been the best. It's so crazy. We've almost been married for... We'll be married for a year in April. So, it's flying by, but it also has felt like eternity. I feel like I haven't lived without Ryan. It's the craziest thing, but it's been the best. It's a lot of fun. I mean, it's very different from living alone and lots of changes, but it's all good.
Brynne Erickson (02:40)
was awesome. Remind me how old are you guys again?
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (02:43)
I'm 23. And I'm 22.
Brynne Erickson (02:45)
Okay,
awesome. Just to give us a little bit of reference. Okay, so has the counseling come in handy?
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (02:56)
It has for sure, ⁓ I guess, a little background on how it started. I was, ⁓ for many years actually, I was always intrigued with therapy or counseling or whatever you want to call it, and had heard of different people going to counseling and different experiences, some good, some bad. ⁓ But I was, I wanted to give it a try.
Brynne Erickson (03:02)
Yeah, please.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (03:24)
And so after me and Stevie had started dating for a couple of months, I decided I was going to go and try and find a counselor to help me with my personal things. ⁓ Because I mean, all got things we're going through and I got my share for sure. And so I started going and it was great. I loved it. Actually, I think I might've gotten lucky with.
Brynne Erickson (03:40)
Absolutely.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (03:51)
therapist I found, but he has become a good friend and ⁓ someone who I believe really cares about me and my well-being and I fully feel comfortable sharing my challenges and some of the things that I don't feel comfortable sharing with other people. So it's been good. ⁓ But I went alone for probably... A few months.
five or six months I would guess before Stevie was like, maybe I want to go and see what it's like too. And I can't remember if we started going together or you just started going on your own. I think I went on my own. I had gone to therapy when I got home from my mission. They give you free therapy sessions when you come home early. And so I went to, I think about three or four sessions and it was really good. And I've been raised in a family where you talk about.
mental health a lot and my family's like going to therapy is great. So I had gone three times and then yeah I think when Ryan started going I went alone first and then I think we went together after that for a while.
Brynne Erickson (04:52)
Nice.
Whose idea was it to go together?
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (05:10)
Did we, maybe we did go together the first time. I'm having a hard time remembering. Yeah, I don't know. I think it was maybe Stevie's. ⁓ I mean, when we got closer to our marriage, different things would pop up and I don't know what you could say. We had commitment issues and we were scared of committing to each other. ⁓ I mean, marriage was a big step for both of us. so.
different challenges came up that we wouldn't argue about, but we would get fearful and kind of, I'm very- Avoidant. Avoidant. And Stevie is, we've learned about attachment styles in therapy, but I have an avoidant attachment style, Stevie has an anxious attachment style. And so when I get hurt or scared, I kind of just run away and dive into myself. And Stevie's like-
Brynne Erickson (05:50)
Hmm.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (06:06)
Let's talk about this. need to figure this out. Don't go away. And that makes me want to push away harder anyway. So we were going through some of that stuff. And so I think it probably was we started going together first before she started going on her own. Yeah. And actually a funny story on one of our, I think it was our second date pretty much. We were, we just talked, we would talk and talk and we were sitting in the car and I asked, we were with another friend and I asked them,
Brynne Erickson (06:33)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (06:34)
I was like, do you guys think you'd ever go to like couples therapy? And our one friend, he was like, no way. I hope me and my wife never get to that point where we have to go to couples therapy. And Ryan sat there and he was like, honestly, yeah, I think I would. And I was like, green flag. Like, there we go. Just because I think I think people get scared to work through things like it when they hit that rough patch a lot like fight or flight kind of thing. And some people are just like, well, I'm hitting the road because
Brynne Erickson (06:44)
Hmm
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (07:04)
I'm too scared to be vulnerable or go through these things. Anyways, think it was... Yeah, me and Ryan have always been... Like I said, our first two days we just talked and talked and talked and we're very vulnerable from the beginning, I feel like, and we just clicked and...
Yeah.
Brynne Erickson (07:23)
Yeah, I love that. love how it was more like preventative care, right? Like, no, we're doing this to help set us up for success. And not that we will prevent hard conversations from occurring, but when they do come, because they will inevitably come, we will understand each other a little bit better. We will have some tools in our toolkit of how to communicate and questions we can ask to navigate this. So I
I love that so much. That's such a great idea. Were either of you skeptical or resistant at all or were you both like totally on board from the get go?
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (08:01)
I was 100 % in. ⁓ My parents are divorced and because of that I felt...
I don't think it was anything they did, but I think that I felt like they had enough issues by themselves. And so I didn't want to be any other issue. And so I wouldn't share anything with them. I felt, I think I became avoided because I felt very isolated from a young age and I was just very self-reliable. And I said, I don't need anyone else. I can do things on my own. I've been doing it my whole life. ⁓ but as different things happened throughout high school and after high school,
I could kind of tell that I had some
unhealthy ideas or habits that I would do around relationships and working with people. And so I was well aware of that. And so I had no shame going to a therapist and saying, Hey, what's this about? Why do I do this? And to me it was fine.
Brynne Erickson (09:02)
Hmm.
Ryan, how did you become aware? I mean, that's pretty big to be like, yeah, I'm very aware of my things that I do. How did you become, let's use that word, aware of those things that you wanted to eventually address in therapy?
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (09:23)
Some of it was actually on my mission, different people I was working with and talking to. I was in Arizona for 16 months and then went down to Uruguay. So because of COVID, I had a little bit of sport mission. ⁓ But mostly in Arizona, I connected with some people and they became really good friends. ⁓ But I wouldn't get vulnerable with them. I didn't feel safe.
Brynne Erickson (09:32)
Where did you serve?
Mm.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (09:53)
opening up to people at all. And they would open up to me and they would kind of ask and I was very protective. And so I think they actually kind of brought that up and said, you're not very comfortable opening up. Like you, need connection to heal and different things. And I said, yeah, I've heard that, but so that's kind of where it started. And then as time went on, different things popped up and I just would think about it and ponder that.
a little bit.
Brynne Erickson (10:26)
Very good, what about you Stevie? Onboard, resistant, skeptical?
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (10:30)
I was definitely on board. mean, I think, I don't know, I think the idea of couples therapy is like you're in a rough place. You're going to therapy to work through it. And I think, I think because of the way I was raised and my parents, again, like I said, were so, and that's the thing. I don't think therapy is about like always about mental health struggles or anything like that. Like anyone can and should go to therapy, but ⁓
Brynne Erickson (10:40)
Yeah.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (10:58)
Yeah, I don't know. I don't think I was very skeptical at all. And I was kind of interested to see how couple therapy would go. Because like I said, I've been on my own, but then going together, I was like, this might be a little interesting. But I was definitely on board because like Ryan said, I think it was kind of my idea to go. And I remember when Ryan first started going, we'd he'd come home from therapy or come pick me up. We go on a date and.
He would kind of talk to me about what they talked about and like he said earlier, we learned about attachment styles and everything Ryan was sharing with me. I'm like, this is so intriguing. I'm like, I wonder how I am or why I act this way in my relationship or why I show up this way. And so I was definitely on board and intrigued with going.
Brynne Erickson (11:41)
So why, when you guys came up against these hard spots in your dating, why didn't you just be like, screw it, like, we don't need to be together. This obviously isn't working. Why was it important enough to you to work through that together rather than just give up?
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (12:00)
Cause Ryan's the best. That's great question. Funny enough, one of the other things that made me realize that I have certain connection styles and different things is a past relationship I was in and it ended and part of the reason is because I believe is
Brynne Erickson (12:05)
I love that.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (12:28)
because I didn't open up and we couldn't connect. And so it was a very surface level relationship and it lasted a while, but because of my things, I just wouldn't let it get to where it needed to be. And so going into this relationship with Stevie, I was aware of that and I said, want to, I don't want to just keep throwing relationships away because of my attachment styles. And I don't think that.
If I was better, if I knew what I knew now, like that relationship would have worked. think that it was easy to give up on because it wasn't going to work and I could tell. But I could realize, I also realized that it was because I didn't open up to her and we couldn't connect deeper. So when it came to me and Stevie, I feel like she was worth fighting for it felt like, and I was like, I really need to.
get this figured out because I don't want, I want to live a healthy lifestyle and I don't want to just become avoidant and hide it with myself for the rest of my life.
Brynne Erickson (13:36)
I love that. Way to go, you guys. So, what was the experience like for you? First of all, before we dive into that, how did you find your therapist? And that is pretty awesome that you really connected with someone in the first go, because that doesn't happen a lot of the time. So how did you find them? And then what was the experience like? Like kind of walk us through that.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (13:40)
Wise man.
So I, when I first was like, all right, I'm doing this. I got online and just started looking at different things. There's some online therapy where you just hop on a Zoom call with a therapist. ⁓ I had an insurance company and they actually had a list of like therapists that you could go to for family therapy or all sorts of different kind of stuff. ⁓
but I was on a camping trip actually with one of my friends and he said, well, no. One of my neighbors works at a ⁓ kids home, just where troubled kids go after drugs or whatnot and their parents send them there. So he worked there and I knew he had been involved in some sort of therapy. So I actually reached out to him and got a couple of recommendations from him so that I knew they were local.
I kind of told him what I was looking for in a therapist and whatnot and Then on that camping trip with my friend He I told him I was gonna go to the therapist I told him his name and he had actually gone to that same therapist and so he was able to share a little bit more about that therapist which was Helpful, I think it helped open my mind a little bit and got a little more comfortable But I feel yeah, it was a great experience. I mean the first
Brynne Erickson (15:26)
Nice.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (15:36)
Session I had with him. It was very just Exploratory understanding who I am. He shared about him He is LDS which I think is helpful for me because I wanted someone who could know Believing in my the same things I believe in ⁓ But he wasn't I've heard of also LDS therapists and they have to say You need to read your scriptures and you need to pray and it'll fix you. I didn't want any of that
Brynne Erickson (16:03)
Mmm.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (16:06)
forced upon me. I know that prayers and scriptures can help in life and different things, but I didn't want to be... I've heard, and I don't know if it's true, but I've heard like therapists provided through the church have different requirements like that. Anyways, I don't know. He has actually, he has shared some things with me and he actually has a very similar, I think, attachment style and different...
Brynne Erickson (16:12)
Mm-hmm.
I can see that. Okay.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (16:34)
Struggles similar to mine ⁓ and so he was able to relate with me and share his own personal experiences and make me feel like I'm not crazy because You're like I'm crazy. Why am I thinking this? Why is this happening and It was just it was helpful to hear his experiences and then I shared mine and he responded in a very Healthy way. There was no shame. It was completely open and it
Brynne Erickson (16:45)
Yeah.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (17:04)
It just felt safe. so, and he helped me understand and point me in the direction. He never said, you are this and your brain does this. He said.
What I'm thinking is maybe you do this because of this and I don't know if that fits with you. Let me know how you feel and if that fits. And so he never like put anything on me and he was very open about it. And so he just guided me and brought up different ideas of how my brain was reacting to different things or stuff like that. And so I didn't feel like he was telling me that I had this or it just felt open if that makes sense.
Brynne Erickson (17:49)
Yes, to me it does.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (17:50)
I,
when he was saying that actually I was thinking the first therapist I did go to I remember it being like he was like you sound like you have depression like let's diagnose this and it was like fine and all but I know a lot of therapy approaches is like ⁓ you have anxiety you have which is great if you can address that but I do appreciate how the therapist we go to he is very much like we said those attachment styles like it's crazy to realize
The way I show up in me and my mom's relationship is like mirrored image of how I show up in me and Ryan's relationship. Like we'll talk about things from my childhood and I'm like, I'm like, ⁓ I still do that with Ryan actually. Cause that's how I, that's where I learned it growing up. And that's how I showed up and felt safe and comfortable in settings and so forth. And so it's just really like, it's just diving into so personal, like.
It's not like, okay, you have depression. So like this is what's going on and you need to do this to fix it. It doesn't feel like he's trying to fix you. It's just exploring your thought processes and all that stuff.
Brynne Erickson (18:48)
Yeah.
Cool, yeah, because there's definitely a setting where having a diagnosis, right, could be helpful. But there's also settings where it's like, okay, let's figure out how you work. Like you as an individual person, how do you think about this? What do you feel about this? How could we maybe reframe this to be more helpful, right? So I love that. That's a good point to bring up. Like there are different styles of therapists and different purposes that they serve.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (19:04)
Yeah, for sure.
Brynne Erickson (19:28)
And if you try a couple and it's not a good fit, there are lots of them out there. Right.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (19:33)
And that's the thing.
know a lot of people go to therapy and they have a bad experience with one therapist. that's, think you have to find who works for you and who, yeah, I just think there's like what you want to get out of it. And that's another thing when we showed up to therapy, the first thing he says is he's like, you're only going to get out of this, what you're putting into it. If you show up here and you're like, well, I was fine this week. Like, well, and that's the hard part about therapy. You dive into some stuff that's like pretty, not uncomfortable, brings up a lot.
Brynne Erickson (19:41)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Yeah.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (20:03)
emotions and stuff and so ⁓ or things you've just never shared before or shared your feelings with and so it is a vulnerable place and I think sometimes it can be a little awkward when this is a person you've never met and you're just sharing things but the right therapist like Ryan said he just makes this space is so safe you're you feel safe and comfortable to share and work through what you're going through that week
Brynne Erickson (20:30)
I know. And don't we wish that every couple felt that they could be that open and honest and vulnerable with their person. It breaks my heart to think that there are so many people out there that they go talk to everyone else, but their spouse or their partner. Right. And that's, it's, it's weird, but that's where the real connection and vulnerability is in vulnerability and being able to show the
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (20:48)
Yeah.
Yes.
Brynne Erickson (20:59)
emotion and the weaknesses and your hurt and your anger and your pain like all of it like the good and the bad the ugly and the beautiful like we're all just these beautiful compilations of it all and the more comfortable we can get with both sides of ourselves our light and our dark the more beautiful our relationships can become
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (21:22)
Yeah. And I think like you, the question you asked earlier about like what made us run, Ryan is the most amazing person, but it is like, I don't know, I think I used to believe in soulmates slightly, but then the older I got, I'm like, no, I think you could make a relationship work with anyone. But obviously there's, there's going to be red flags and things you're okay with and things you're not okay with. But like realizing that every single person comes with baggage is like the biggest thing. Cause you get into a relationship and I think
Brynne Erickson (21:27)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (21:49)
Some people haven't gone through their own stuff. They can't show up enough for each other. And I think sometimes, I don't know, like you hit that spot in a relationship where it's like, oh, shoot, this is getting vulnerable. This is getting deep. And it's like, I don't know how to feel that way. So I'm going to run. But I think realizing like Ryan is the most green flag man, like when we were dating, I was like, oh, my gosh, like, this is amazing. How did I meet him? But there are things that show up and it's like, OK, am I willing to put up with this? Am I willing? Am I like?
Brynne Erickson (22:13)
you
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (22:20)
hear enough that I can put up with this because that's another thing. Sometimes things from your past show up and it's like too triggering for you that you can't even like show up in that relationship. And so I don't know. It's crazy how easy yet complicated relationships are. ⁓
Brynne Erickson (22:39)
Brian, what have you learned about sharing emotions as a masculine man?
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (22:49)
Good question.
Brynne Erickson (22:49)
of a hard thing for guys to do.
I think it comes more naturally to women, right? We tend to be more naturally emotional. So what have you learned either about yourself or the power of emotions in general through this process?
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (23:07)
I have to say this really quick. But Ryan does cry. It's okay for men to cry. But I think Ryan was slightly raised where crying was frowned upon maybe. But he says, yeah, he says sometimes that he's like, can't cry. I'm the man. Like, what if I was in war right now? I can't cry on the battlefield. And I'm like, Ryan, you're here with me. You can cry. It's okay. It's just as funny to that thought has never crossed my mind. It's just funny how
Brynne Erickson (23:10)
Do it.
lot of people are.
that's cute right? that
is a good point, yeah, that has never crossed my mind in my life ⁓
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (23:43)
I mean, yeah, I do have some of those thoughts and feelings and I don't know if it was it was like frowned upon to cry necessarily, but I always felt like I do need to be tough. need to crying doesn't fix anything and yada yada yada. So over time with therapy, ⁓ different.
We would be talking about different things and I would start to cry and it was very painful and one because what I was going through was painful and two because I don't feel comfortable crying. So it was like a double whammy, but what I've learned and what I'm not good at is our, our emotions and our body are very connected and our body needs certain things.
Brynne Erickson (24:34)
Yes.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (24:38)
and my emotions, I don't let my body portray what my emotions are. And so it's hard to understand what my emotions need because my body won't show it. Our therapist talks about as different things show up, your body will point to different things and...
you'll feel it in different places. And to me, that's super foreign. And I'm still like, I have no idea what he's talking about because my body, I don't feel any emotions. And I do believe what he says though. Like, I feel like some people would hear that and be like, yeah, you're not feeling it because it's not real. And that's crazy. ⁓ but I do believe that our body points towards things and we get anxious and our stomach hurts because ours.
Brynne Erickson (25:14)
Mmm.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (25:33)
because our anxiety, our emotions, it affects our body. And so I think our body needs to release different things and moving your body and doing different things with your body can help you work through emotions. And to me, crying is one of those. And I don't like it, but ⁓ when I need to cry, I'm more comfortable than I used to be.
Brynne Erickson (25:49)
Mm-hmm.
That's awesome. You just said a lot of really wise things and I learned a long time ago and this is just something I learned on my own. But I've come to realize that God gave us everything that we need to take care of ourselves. Like obviously we have doctors and nurses and therapists and stuff that's awesome for support. But truly like if we know how to utilize the tools God already gave us.
I don't know that we would need all those external sources, but we don't. Like it truly is that emotional, spiritual body connection. They're not isolated. Like they're truly meant to work together. And I realized like God gave us tears is the most healthy way to process emotion possible. Like you don't have to go on a rampage. You don't have to hit anyone. You don't have to even yell at anyone. You can literally just sit and cry.
I was like, isn't that amazing and beautiful? And yet we're so resistant to it because we've made all these rules about crying. I, I just think it's so, isn't it funny? Like really, when you think about it, it's like, okay, I'm supposed to do this obviously, because that's what my body wants me to do. But I'm so resistant to it because it makes me not manly and it's ugly and it makes people feel uncomfortable and all these things. And
Yeah, I am here to break all those rules. Like crying is the best thing that God gave us to help process emotion and to feel better. What do you guys think about that?
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (27:31)
Yeah, I mean, as Ryan was saying that our therapists talk about how in Western culture, it's like we're just, what did you say? Heads walking around on a toothpick. Like, I don't know, like we're so up here and I'm definitely that way. And so a lot of the times in therapy, he'll ask us like, what are you feeling in your body? And like Ryan said, it is kind of foreign to me because I'm like, I don't know, because I've been up here. I've just been thinking and thinking and thinking. And it's interesting. And like he talks about.
He doesn't really talk about meditation, kinda, but just like Eastern culture, like I think of the monks and stuff like meditation and just like Zen, like being connected to yourself. And I think it's really interesting because even foot zoning, like when I remember Ryan one time came home from therapy and was talking about.
Brynne Erickson (28:07)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (28:22)
Certain things and I was like this sounds like foot zoning and I know people think foot zoning is kind of Voodoo voodoo, but I don't know it's so interesting that your body is truly your emotions are so connected like things show up in your body because you're feeling a certain way It's just very interesting But I'm definitely a crier I cry and it's funny how I'll feel a certain way and then I'll cry and I'm like, I feel better now because I just released all of that Yeah to go on to what Stevie said
One tool that our therapist has taught us is SIFT and it's an acronym for sensations, images, thoughts and feelings. so you call it homeostasis when your body is normal and you feel okay and things are just level. And then if things happen, you start to rise and get aroused, your emotions get aroused and it can be a lot of different things.
Brynne Erickson (29:21)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (29:22)
during that arousal period as things are climbing, if you sit there and sift and think about the sensations your body is feeling, the images that are going through your mind, the thoughts and the feelings you are feeling, it can help you understand where those are coming from, why you are feeling those that way. Because like I said earlier, sometimes you feel crazy and you're just stuck in your head and it goes around and around. But if you sit there and spend time with yourself,
of meditation like and try and understand where that's coming from. It always points to something. We do everything for a reason and he teaches us many tools like that but really sitting with yourself and spending time on listening to your thoughts and feelings and emotions can help us understand why we do some of the things we do. And even when I don't know when people start to get angry how many times do you take
Brynne Erickson (29:59)
Yes.
Yeah.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (30:20)
you tell yourself, deep breaths, deep breaths here. Like, it's so interesting, or even when you kind of get into an anxious mindset, you're kind of having a little bit of a panic attack maybe, like the squared breathing, breathing in for four seconds, holding it for four seconds, like even breathing can calm you down so immensely, and so it's really interesting. And I had another thought, but it just left my mind.
Brynne Erickson (30:46)
That's okay if it comes back, stop me. But that's a really, I like the acronym. That's really, really wise. And everything that you guys are saying for me ⁓ all leads back to the word curiosity and just getting curious because like you said, there's a reason that we do everything, but we're all just on autopilot, right? We're just doing the things that our brain is telling us to do rather than pausing and be like, okay, wait, why am I doing this again?
Like what? ⁓ I have this belief that this is how I'm supposed to do this thing. ⁓ do I actually want to keep doing this thing? Or could I do it differently or just not do it at all? Okay. Now, like we, it's taking ownership of your life and being like, ⁓ I don't actually just have to be this robot that just goes through this life. I really can.
have a say in who I want to be, what I want to think and what I want to feel and how I handle things. So that's awesome.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (31:52)
Yeah, and I think understanding too, that word's come up a lot, but like, when we take time to understand each other more, that's where the connection comes. Because if we're both like, Ryan's not doing this and he's not doing this, but when I understand why he's showing up in that way, it makes me like, ⁓ okay.
because of this and this. Anyways, it's just taking the time to understand it. Understanding takes vulnerability because you have to, you know, get into all of that, which can be hard for some people. But that is, I feel like just where most of our connections come from is taking the time to understand each other.
Brynne Erickson (32:31)
I love that. And I agree 100%. In fact, it's easier to make assumptions and just stick with our assumptions because then we don't have to talk about it, right? Then we can just be like, oh, they just do this all the time and it's so annoying. And they're just trying to get, like, hurt my feelings and get after me or whatever. So my sweet husband, Dallin, he leaves his lunchbox out all the time. We've been married 14 years. And finally, I just looked at him and was like, Dallin, why?
Is it so hard? Like I said it maybe not as nicely as I could have. was like, but why is it so hard or why do you like have such a hard time? I don't know. Putting your lunch box away. And he was like, you know, I just put it down and I move on to the next thing. And I was like, there you go. Like I'm just grateful to better understand that after 14 years. Thank you. Instead of, and cause you know, you start ruminating like,
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (33:22)
and
Brynne Erickson (33:28)
Why can't they just do this one thing? then you make this huge story up about one thing and then you're mad at someone for over something that you probably didn't really need to spend all that energy on. So yes, asking why in, and especially when you're open to actually having a conversation about it, right? Like don't come in hot. That usually doesn't end well. But if you can come in with true curiosity.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (33:33)
Yep.
Yeah.
Brynne Erickson (33:57)
just open to whatever the answer is. get, you'll usually, I'm pretty surprised by the answers I'll get. And I'll be like, well, that actually makes sense. It's a lot better than the story I was making in my head about all the reasons you didn't do X, Y, and Z or whatever.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (34:06)
I'm
It reminds me of something someone told me once and it was a lady I used to work with and her and her husband, she told me, never fight, they never argue. And to me, that's crazy because my parents, fought a ton and got divorced eventually and they're doing great now. But it was just crazy to hear that a couple never fights. Like I thought it was inevitable. And one thing she shared is that similar to what you just said, like,
Brynne Erickson (34:31)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (34:44)
We want, we have these different things and we start to build resentment against our partners and different things. And she said, the one thing that helps is, and it happens to me still, but I have expectations that I don't communicate and he's doing nothing wrong. And I'm building this whole long story in my head of why in the world would he do this? He must know how bad it's hurting me and all this different stuff. And so just you, you'll never have.
Brynne Erickson (35:00)
Yes.
Yes.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (35:14)
It won't be perfect, but you'll get rid of a lot of tension and resentment if you just always communicate every expectation you have. And if you don't want to communicate that expectation, you just need to be okay with saying, he's not aware of this expectation and that's okay. And that's why he's doing this. And one thing too, with me as a girl, sometimes I'm like,
I remember seeing this Instagram post and it was like, girl's love language is not having to ask. And I was like, that is so true. But then I'm like, Ryan cannot read my mind. Like you come back to reality and it's like, okay, wait, he has no idea that I'm expecting this, this and this from him. And exactly, we first started dating, there was a quote that uncommunicated expectations are.
something resentment like I can't work pretty much and it's true because it's exactly that like if I'm I get home from work and I'm like I hope when Ryan gets home he comes in and gives me a hug and I'm that's an expectation I have if I don't communicate them with him and he doesn't do it obviously I'm gonna be like I'm tearing but his job is not to read my mind and as we were talking earlier I was thinking about how you said at the beginning of this podcast how
Brynne Erickson (36:05)
lead to resentment or something.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (36:32)
some couples, talk to everyone else but their couple. And I think building a healthy relationship, takes two. Like if I was coming to Ryan and he was just closed off, not wanting to communicate at all, and that's the hard part is it takes two to connect and be vulnerable. And I am so appreciative of Ryan because I feel like we've both done a ton of growing in our relationship. And there's times where I... ⁓
All I want, the goal I have is connection, but it takes me like this windy path to get there because I maybe have a little upset and so I just want to turn away from him. But I, from therapy and like being able to sift through my thoughts and things, I'm like, okay, no, my goal is to connection. So then though I might have done something that I feel a little embarrassed about or whatnot, I can still come to him and I'm like, okay.
let's have a vulnerable conversation here because all I'm wanting from you is connection and if I run away from you that's not going to lead to healthy connection and and he just shows up so kind and a safe place for me and so it truly does take two because if I came to him and he was freaking out at me or anything like then that again just builds more
resentment and whatnot. yeah, our therapist has taught us a lot about different relationship styles and or attachment styles. And he talked about a scientist who a psychologist who does study psychology, but he talks about this study that happened and everyone gets a attachment style at the time before the 12 months of age.
So at one year old, everyone has some sort of attachment style. I mean, there's different examples of what the babies did in the study with each attachment style. But ⁓ I think every relationship we have, we can have different attachment styles, healthy, unhealthy, avoidant, anxious, ambivalent, I think is the other one. There's four that I've learned about at least. ⁓ And when someone comes to us and they become open,
And we can do two things to them. We can be a safe place for them and take them in and be totally fine. Or we can shame them or do other things that is not safe. And if we do that over and over again, they'll learn that this is not a safe place. I'm not going to go open up to this person. For me, the hardest thing has been a lot of times Stevie does want to open up and communicate and figure things out. And I am avoidant.
And so she'll come to me and I have thoughts of leave me alone. I don't want to talk right now. I don't feel safe. I'm in. I have my own fears that I'm dealing with. Like leave me alone. It doesn't help to shame her and say don't come to me right now. And it's hard. ⁓ But and I know the consequences that if I did do that it would teach her to not open up to me. And I don't want that at all.
I want to have a relationship with Stevie and have a healthy attachment style with Stevie. I have other attachment styles with other people and they're not always healthy and I don't love them. And so I want at least a good one with Stevie. ⁓ But in that moment, it helps to understand that I need to be a safe space. And sometimes I don't and I can't be a safe space. And I just try to communicate that in a healthy way and say,
I don't feel okay talking right now, let's talk about it right now. Instead of saying get out of my face, I don't wanna talk about it right now. If you are not going to talk about something, that's totally fine. You wanna do it in healthy way, you need to communicate it without shaming them. Yeah, and that's my train of thought, I'm telling you, it's like out of here.
Brynne Erickson (40:19)
I love that.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Yes.
It's okay, it's late, you're doing awesome. You guys are so great, I love this. You've shared so many beautiful things. Is there anything that you found unhelpful in this process at all?
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (40:57)
For me, no.
Brynne Erickson (40:58)
10 out of 10, huh?
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (41:00)
I mean I did say to Ryan one day, this was probably about a month ago, I came home to him and I was like, I was like, Ryan do you think if you wouldn't have gone to therapy that our relationship would be where it is today? And he was like, honestly no. Like honestly, because like I said, we all have baggage we bring to a relationship and I think when we first started dating, they say when you're in a healthy relationship, that's when like...
Brynne Erickson (41:05)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (41:27)
most of the crap shows up. Like you're like, my gosh, I don't have to like worry so much about you. I'm worrying about myself. And now I'm noticing all these things coming up in myself. And I think that really happened with us where we were like, shoot, like, why am I feeling this way? And so I think in the beginning, there were a lot of times we probably would have been like, this is uncomfortable. I'm gonna, I'm gonna go. But I think, I don't know, we just worked through them and yeah, I'm.
I don't think there's anything that was unhelpful about it at all. We're far from perfect still. We still get pissed off and...
Brynne Erickson (42:00)
awesome.
No, there's no such thing. I think it's funny
how we throw that word around. Like, what would a perfect relationship ever even look like? And is it even realistically attainable? Like what we think that would be, right? I don't think it exists. I think that's a funny word. In fact, I like studying words and like where they come, what they translate from the Hebrew and the Greek. Cause a lot of the scriptures, the scriptures have been translated multiple times from both languages.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (42:12)
rain.
Brynne Erickson (42:34)
And I learned that the word perfect actually means whole or complete. So to me, perfect doesn't mean without flaw. It means all of it together makes one perfect whole. And that has completely changed everything for me because not a single person exists that could ever be perfect. So how could anything be perfect?
like a relationship or whatnot, but a relationship could be whole because both of you bring everything that you bring to the relationship. So yeah, it is like it takes everything. Like I said, you're light, you're dark, you're good, you're bad, you're baggage, you're awesome experiences. It takes all of it for you to become what amazing unit you can be together.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (43:07)
That's awesome.
Yeah, definitely.
Brynne Erickson (43:25)
So that's so awesome. Okay, so we'd recommend therapy. We're loving therapy. It's really worked for us. Is there any? Go ahead.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (43:31)
When you,
sorry, when you texted us, I said to Ryan, was like, I think this would be awesome. Cause it's true. feel like a lot of people that we've told that we go to therapy, they are kind of like,
Sometimes I wonder because of the way therapy is, they're like, are they going through a hard time right now? Or like, what's going on? But it really, I mean, yeah, every relationship ebbs and flows. But I just think it's been overall very helpful and insightful. And we actually stopped going to couples therapy and we've just been going to individual therapy because we've found a lot of our things are very personal. It's not.
that we're having like conflict between us or anything. It's mainly just working through our own personal baggage or whatever you want to call it. And so, yeah, but it is, yeah, just understanding each other. It's been super helpful
Brynne Erickson (44:26)
Yeah, and I even love the term like pre-marriage counseling. Like come get a consultation and figure out your attachment style to set up for you for success. Some therapist is gonna catch onto this and be like, my gosh, I'm gonna totally take on this niche in Utah with all these young couples that get married.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (44:32)
to say.
Yeah.
actually had a co-worker who's Catholic, I believe. She said that they did couples ⁓ counseling before marriage and they actually meet with their priest, which I thought was really interesting. She said every couple that gets married in their church does it. I thought that was very interesting because I'm like, there's no harm in...
figuring each other's stuff out before you lock in for life. But, yeah.
Brynne Erickson (45:16)
Yeah, definitely. I love that. Was there anything that you would do differently preparing for marriage if you were to go back?
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (45:25)
I don't think so. I mean, like Stevie said, I started going to therapy and then we started going to couples therapy with the same therapist. But we would still both go separately as well. So we'd go one week together and then every other week we would go by ourselves and then together and then by ourselves. And so. For me, I find more value in the personal therapy because I feel like I do have more.
personal items that I need to take care of and care of those helps me be there for Stevie when she needs it. And it was definitely helpful to go to the couple's therapy and to understand what she's going through and to have her talk and have a therapist kind of try and understand what that could look like, what it could mean.
So it did help to go to couples therapy, but for me, personal therapy and just really understanding who I am, why I do the things I do, what are my needs has been so helpful and I really believe it's changed the rest of my life, like so many things.
Brynne Erickson (46:35)
Anything you want to add, Stevie?
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (46:38)
I think realizing too that you are two individual people before marriage, I think I'm a little codependent where I'm like need Ryan all the time. But realizing that to show up in a healthy relationship, you do need to have a healthy relationship with yourself and having your own self image self.
Brynne Erickson (46:55)
Hmm.
Ryan & Stevie Peterson (47:02)
your own self-worth and all these things like that plays a huge role into how you show up in your relationship. And so, I don't know, I'm just grateful I have Ryan because Ryan is a very open-minded person. I know some people are very closed off to therapy or closed off to working through their own things, but yeah, I mean, I would definitely recommend it to anyone. I think it's very, very helpful.
Brynne Erickson (47:25)
I love that.
You guys are so wise. I'm so proud of you. And this has been such a good plug for pre-marriage counseling. Like something I never heard of, but I am all for and completely on board with.
So thank you for sharing your wisdom and your resources. You guys are awesome. Thank you so much.
Have a good night.