The Cinnamon Roll with Armando Litiatco, Chef and Co-Owner of Sunday Morning

The bakery is called Sunday Morning because a restaurant person almost never gets one.

Days off land on a Tuesday, or wherever they land. But if you get a Sunday, Armando Litiatco says, that's a good Sunday. And what he did with his was wake up early enough to start a dough that would not be ready until late, and spend the day doing nothing and making cinnamon rolls.

Tiffany Pham sits down with him over four of them: the classic caramel pecan, strawberry Earl Grey, blueberry lemon curd, and Brooklyn Blackout, which is chocolate on chocolate on chocolate. He explains why the dough is American rather than European, gooey and fluffy in the centre; why enriched dough deserves more love than it gets; and why the staff are in at half four for a bakery that opens at nine.

He was born in the Philippines, raised in San Francisco, trained at the California Culinary Academy, cooked at Daniel early in his career, and was working at Google as an accountant when he started picking up catering gigs on the side. He asked a friend named Ahmet Kiranbay to help with the holiday rush. Ahmet never went back to his office. Twenty years later they run Rana Fifteen, their Aegean Turkish restaurant in Park Slope, and two bakeries together.

Asked what's next, he says he'd like to see Sunday Morning in other cities, and then immediately explains why that frightens him: there are only two people who know the actual recipe, and he still tastes the dough every day.

Savor with Tiffany Pham, a Representation production, is a companion to the television docuseries premiering May 2027. Cinematography by: Kym Pham.

CHAPTERS
00:00 Walking in, and the four rolls on the table
00:38 "I'll tell you what we have in front of us"
01:45 "I always go for the classic, because I want to taste the dough"
02:05 American style: gooey, fluffy, not European
02:33 Enriched dough, and why it doesn't get enough love
03:33 French butter, brown sugar, Saigon cinnamon
04:36 "The staff is here at 4:30 in the morning"
04:51 Fine dining, brought to the cinnamon roll
05:26 "As you mature as a cook, you understand where your lane is"
05:45 "Cook what you love to eat"
06:08 Strawberry Earl Grey, and everything made in house
06:57 Blueberry lemon curd
07:35 Brooklyn Blackout
08:27 Born in the Philippines, raised in San Francisco
08:50 New York, 2003, and the place you always want to go back to
09:19 The accountant, the catering gigs, and Ahmet who never went back
10:18 Twenty years, and hashing it out like a kitchen line
11:05 Daniel, and the hours
11:43 A schedule completely flipped by a bakery
12:30 The dough: started the night before
12:53 Why it's called Sunday Morning
13:53 "It's a lot of pressure on the shoulders"
14:51 One item, done right
15:32 Two bakeries, a Turkish restaurant, and splitting the duties
17:15 "I wake up and I think about what I'm going to eat"
17:57 What's next: growing the bakery
18:22 "Only two of us know the actual recipe"
18:43 The pattern across the season: why franchises succeed
20:04 "Number one is the food": you should be able to cut it with a fork
20:48 What you give up as a cook, and learning to step back
21:44 "The true definition of reinvention"
23:16 Rapid fire: pho, burger, noodles
25:47 Favorite chocolate chip cookie
26:39 "It's been such an honor"
27:01 After the interview: Jason, and building slowly
28:34 "Excited to feature you, excited to honor you"

ABOUT SUNDAY MORNING
Sunday Morning — @sundaymorningcinnamonrolls on Instagram

🎬 The Savor with Tiffany Pham docuseries premieres May 1, 2027
🌐 savortheuniverse.com

Creators and Guests

Host

Tiffany Pham

Host of Savor with Tiffany Pham. Founder of Savor the Universe and Wall Street Journal bestselling author.

AL

Guest

Armando Litiatco

What is Savor with Tiffany Pham?

Savor with Tiffany Pham is a Representation original podcast where host Tiffany Pham sits down with the most iconic chefs of today over the one dish that made them famous.

Each episode, Tiffany and her guest share their signature plate together, and while they eat, they get into everything behind it: the life, the dreams, the journey, and the moment a dish became a legacy. It's a conversation you can taste.

Season One premieres September 1, 2026. Follow now so you're at the table for the first course.

We learned to highlight the food first so
that we can get that out and then dig into

your journey. It's such a delight to be
here with you. It's going to be so lovely

to be able to spend time with you and ask
you about your journey and how you've

learned to save her and along the way all
the incredible things you've done with

Sunday morning reinventing the cinnamon
roll which

It's so iconic now in New York City, so
I'm really looking forward to our

conversation today. Thank you. Thank you
for coming. Thank you for thinking about

us. Of course, more than honored. But I'd
love to dig in actually. Let's do it. I

mean, it's here. So yeah, exactly. We have
so many incredible flavors. We'd love to

ask you about your techniques and the
method and all that you spend. I think

it's six hours per batch is it? And more.
Yes. Yeah. The proof, we got a slow proof.

So it takes.

a long time but I'll tell you like what we
have in front of us. This is our classic

caramel pecan and that one is kind of like
the all-american classic that you kind of

find all over the malls you know. That's
the classic favorite. This one is

strawberry Earl Grey, blueberry lemon curd
and

Brooklyn Blackout. I love that. And what's
in each one of these? So this one is going

to be our classic cinnamon roll with a
cream cheese frosting. And it gets the

pecans and a caramel.

So good.

super fluffy.

I love the flavor.

You're our favorite classics. Yeah, it is
classic and that's it.

like one or two a day. Oh really? Yeah.
And which flavor, this one? I always go

for the classic because I want to taste
the dough. I want to make sure, like when

I eat them every day I'm really working,
you know, so I want to taste the dough so

I try to go with the one that leaves some
out of flavor so I can taste the dough

cleanly. So I go with the classics. I love
that. And what I love about your dough is

it's

It's so fluffy, like a lot of different
restaurants make it like a European way,

but I feel like you made it your special
way. What is that special way? I'm not

gonna take credit, it's the classic
traditional American way. I feel like a

lot of the rolls from these amazing
bakeries are European style, but they're

different. They're just a little
different. American style is gonna be like

gooey, fluffy, center, you know what I
mean? Hilarly.

[BL

For a while I was thinking that's not so
easy to find, even in New York City.

That's kind of like the whole reason why
we went with doing home bakery, just

dedicated. And I kind of have a love for
enriched dough. I think enriched dough

doesn't get enough love. What does that
mean enriched dough? It's just a dough

that's going to be enriched with, so
there's like a basic dough that you'd make

like pizza with or whatever. But enriched
dough has

It's just enriched with more fat. But it's
also alive. It has yeast in it. It's

temperamental and it's picky. And there's
many times, not just here, but bakers all

over.

Sometimes you wake up in the morning and
you're like, "Oh, you got to throw it

away." And then you're scrambling to make
another dough. But I think I'm nominated

though to get all the love because they
make croissants and all the the showy

pastries. But I love enriched dough. I
love the doughs that I make. And not just

that, it's like universal. It's universal.
It's in Europe, Asia, America.

basic dough that we all make pastry so I
love that so I heard you make it with

enriched dough triple-proofed less sugar
better chocolate will you tell me about

each of these decisions as well yeah so
you try really hard I mean

At my core I'm a chef, you know? I went to
school, I've been doing it for a long time

so I just have to have really good
ingredients. We try to use really good

ingredients, use French butter, high fat
butter, we use flour that's, there's this

whole thing of unbromated, non-bleached,
but we grow on that.

Use American flour.

and we use vats.

We don't really use white sugar, we use
brown sugar. So you get that nice,

maple-y, molasses flavor in the back,
though, of everything. Yeah, we use, um,

Saigon cinnamon. We try to use, like,
really good ingredients so that it stands

out. Incredible. Amazing. Thank you, thank
you. And it's a labor of love.

The staff is here at 4.30 in the morning.
I luckily can come in a little later now.

They're in at 4.30 in the morning.

I feel like it's like your fine dining
background that you've brought really to

the cinema. Elevating it in every way
possible. The ingredients, the techniques,

the methodology, even the experience, your
staff, and the environment too. I mean, I

see it. I see it reflected in every piece
of this. Thank you, I mean...

When you start cooking as a young cook, I
feel like

towards fine dining.

I went to culinary school so naturally for
me was I'm gonna work for a big shop, I'm

gonna work in fine dining.

that's where you go. And then I think as
you mature as a cook, you start to

understand where your lane is and what you
want to cook, what makes you happy.

And what makes me happy is really

I don't know if I'm honest, you know, if
you look at my restaurants and my

background, I was, I did the fine dining
for nothing.

knowledge, experience, learning
techniques. And when I went on my own, it

was like Filipino barbecue and Turkish
mezzes and rich dough, you know. And I

really believe as a chef you should cook
what you love to eat. I agree with that. I

love that. Well, I love this and will you
chow with me a little bit on this?

So will you tell me about the ingredients
in each one? So this one, how about

strawberry or Earl Grey? So this one is a
Earl Grey infused cream cheese frosting

and then it has the strawberry puree
service on top and we make everything in

house. We make all sauces even, we make
our caramel, we make everything in house.

And this one is like my partner, Ahmet is
Turkish. And every morning for him is...

program at T

and like a strawberry jam of some sort on
some kind of toast. Delicious. Yeah, so

then that's just a natural flavor combo.
Mmm. Mmm.

So good.

I haven't had this one before, but I've
been eyeing it. I've heard so much about

it. So I'm really glad we're having it. -
Thank you. - From this one I've had.

And it's really good too. This one is a
classic American pancake. Like a blueberry

pancake with lemon curd on it. You can't
go wrong with that combination. It's like

sweetness of the blueberry and the little
tartness kick of the lemon. It's hard. You

have the lemon. It's so good.

went by your West Village location and
asked the staff, you know, what was their

favorite and a lot of them pointed to this
one. - They pointed to that one? - Yeah,

so that's the one I've had a lot. - So our
top selling ones are the classics, the

sugar glaze and the cream cheese and then
that would be the next one. - This one,

yeah, makes sense. And is this one your
seasonal or is your special for today or?

- This one's been on for a while.

We usually change the chocolate every now
and then, but Brooklyn Blackout seems to

be the one that...

everyone kind of keeps asking for. It's
essentially chocolate on chocolate on

chocolate. It's smothered in chocolate
pudding so I mean...

So good chocolate crumbles on top and when
I walked in

It was almost completely gone, so that's
why I was like, I have to have the last

chance. - Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I think we
don't need too much of it, 'cause we try

to keep the pants rotating. So if, more
than likely we'll stop the more popular

ones. - Yeah, I see. Wow, I really like
this. I mean, I like all of them. They're

all amazing. This one is really amazing. -
Nice, nice, nice, nice. - I love it. I may

have some more. - Nice. - But yeah, now
I'd love to talk about your journey, kind

of diving in. Where did you grow up?

Did you grow up in the Philippines? I was
born in the Philippines and then I grew up

in San Francisco, California. I went to
forever and then went to culinary school

out there.

Which culinary school? It's called Calp...
I mean, it's still around. It's called

California Culinary Academy. Amazing.

Traveled all over, working.

I worked out in New York City back in
2003. And then left, but New York City is

always kind of like, "It's that place that
you always want to go back to, then

whenever I come visit I'm like, why am I
not living here?" So then eventually I

just came back.

amazing and was that after you were
working at Google in San Francisco and met

Ahmet or was that yeah so

- Ahmet and I met in San Francisco.

I was an accountant actually by trade and
I started picking up gigs, catering gigs

and needed help because it was like the
holiday season and at the time I worked

for Google but in Google you get to win
the holiday season off and so I was

picking up catering gigs and then I needed
help and so I was asking Ahmet to help me

And so we were doing catering gigs
together and he just never left. He just

never went back to his office. So
eventually... What a wonderful partner.

Yeah, eventually... To be honest, he was
always a bit...

I think he found the kitchen more
exciting, the restaurant life more

interesting than matching numbers all day.
I mean I saw he was the CFO of an energy

company before. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
He's still our money guy. He's still the

business and I still... That's important.
It's a good combination because I can cost

you enough of the food. Exactly.

That's amazing. What a complimentary duo
you two are. Yeah, not always. I mean, we

love to hash it out. I think that's one of
the secrets to us being together for as

long as we have is... 20 years, right?
Yeah, together 20 years and you just talk

it out, let even the infinites with the
raised voice, you just let it out and be

that way. But I kind of get that from...

The restaurant mentality is like on the
line you know you might have some

differences you might have something to
say and you might be like "ahh, ah, ah,

ah!" But at the end, it's almost kind of
like an unspoken rule at the end of the

shift, everyone's kind of okay. You know
what I mean? Like, on the bike lines or

whatever happened it was that and now we
start on, start noon. And then the night

starts tomorrow and I think we kind of
carry that into our relationship.

I love that. So, Philippines, San
Francisco, Google, meeting Ahmet, and then

New York City. And then New York City. And
was that when you then started working at

Daniel? No, I worked at Daniel at the
very, very early part of my career. Very

early. I want to say like maybe two years
after culinary school. I've been in the

second place I've worked after culinary
school.

and

I didn't see a lot of New York when I
worked at Daniel, I worked a lot. I don't

know if I saw a lot of the outside. What
were the hours like? They're crazy. You

work from morning to night and it's a

But like with all restaurants, you know,
it doesn't just close at 10. There's the

cleaning and then the whole prepping for
the next day still. And so my schedule has

been completely flipped with a bakery.
Yeah. Right? Because all these years I've

been doing nights.

sleeping till 2 a.m. and then now I'm up
by 4 or 5 in the morning. Oh my goodness.

Completely different. But it's good, I
mean I enjoy the daylight. Yeah, so up by

4.30, you set your team as well. When does
the bakery open? The bakery opens at 9.

And the dough is...

Started the night before and then we
finish it early in the morning And then it

goes through a kneading process in the
morning and then allowed to rest again And

we let it proof again before we roll it
out. Incredible. Yeah, it takes a lot. So

people are here at 4.30, but we don't open
till 9. And that shows your devotion to

the craft, to your love of this.

cinnamon roll, the dessert. And I heard
that it was because you know you you love

this cinnamon roll and you couldn't find a
really good one here in New York City so

you started baking yourself every Sunday
morning. Yeah so...

Days off are not really Sunday mornings.
They're like random, like Tuesday or

whatever. But there's something about a
Sunday off that's special. You get a

Sunday off as a restaurant person, that's
a good Sunday. So we get that Sunday off

and wake up early enough.

Yeah, I'm gonna make some cinnamon rolls,
you know? It's a while. It's not gonna be

ready till late. But it's kind of like a
slow process and you can kind of hear a

morning routine.

Joy, the Sunday morning off. It's kind of
our favorite Sunday morning. It's kind of

like doing nothing and making cinnamon
rolls. So what was it like when you took

that first step towards?

owning an entrepreneurship and deciding
you're going to do this. It's scary. You

know, you're going from...

as a chef working at restaurants and it's
comfortable. It's definitely scary when

you're doing it.

on your own.

It's a lot of pressure on the shoulders.

It's been easy too, like our first couple
of restaurants, our first couple years

owning, at that time we had a Filipino
barbecue restaurant in Brooklyn. It was

doing good but the margins of the
restaurant is not great, you know? So it's

doing good but we're not saving any money,
we're not, you know, it's, so you

definitely have to, as a restaurateur.

You gotta fight. You gotta fight for...

every month. You gotta fight for it. But
it'll pay off, you know, it'll work itself

out. You just gotta stay

food and don't deviate from the whole
point of what you're doing. For me, I

always do one item. I tend to focus on one
item, like just building a one thing well.

You have other dishes on the menu, but the
main focus was the grill, you know?

We have Rana Fifteen, which is our Turkish
restaurant and that's just Aegean food.

It's not all over Turkey. It's just...

on the west and coast. We said we get
hyper focused and this one is just

cinnamon roll. - I love that. - Just do it
right. - Yeah, dish focused and perfecting

it. - Yes. - True devotion and heart. -
Just get it done right. - I love that.

And so now you have a couple of
restaurants now. So two locations of

Sunday morning. One in Brooklyn, I think
you shared. The Turkish one. Both here,

yeah. The Turkish one in Brooklyn. But
both Sunday mornings in the city. Which,

where do you spend your most of your time
and effort in focus right now? The bakery.

The morning. Yeah, we've kind of split the
duties.

Ahmet takes more of the restaurant nights
and I take more of the bakery. Did Ahmet

end up training as well along the way as a
restaurant owner and chef? Yeah, he works

in the kitchen a lot. Like I said, when we
first opened a restaurant, you got to. I

got to cook and I got to wash dishes. And
he's got to cook too. And he's also got to

serve the pork.

So, learned along the way and...

Also, sometimes I need to step aside or
step out, go jump in. So, now you learn.

It's crazy, you learn from...

Yeah, that's incredible. You really
impacted him and then go on a journey.

Yeah, I'm going to totally say that. And
are you still close with your family?

Yeah, very close. We're all in San
Francisco. San Francisco is a place that I

love too. Sometimes when I'm in Brooklyn
and I feel the fog rolling in in Brooklyn,

it reminds me of San Francisco.

I love San Francisco a lot, but I think

save.

When I left it a few times I was like,
"Gotta go back." Are they in the

restaurant world too? Your parents? What
do they do? No. No? No, no, no. They're

retired now.

So where did the love of food come from
then?

Well...

No, like I don't know if it's just because
I truly love to eat and I do love to eat.

I wake up and I think of what I'm gonna
eat. I have lunch and I'm thinking about

what I'm having for dinner. I don't know
if it's really because of that or it's

because I started cooking. And then I
found out I was good at it. And so I don't

know if it's because I love you.

the actual cooking or if I just like food.
What might be a combination of both? I

love that. So we've talked about your
family and your journey towards cooking

and your background

today and all the incredible things you've
accomplished. What's next for you? What do

you think would be a next big dream? Like
what's their next big vision for what's

ahead? I'd love to grow the bakery. I'd
love to grow Sunday morning. I'd like to

see it in different cities. Yeah. Oh, I
like that. So creating your franchise out

of it perhaps. Hopefully. Maybe one day a
franchise, but for now just like...

I don't want to lose control of it. I
don't want to lose control. I self-taste

the dough every day. There's only two of
us that know the actual recipe. So we're

still very much in control of what goes
out. And that's the hard part of scaling

is making sure that the quality always
remains the same.

Eventually, I'm saying like my dreams, you
know like my dreams would be like to see

it everywhere. And I love that and
actually it's really interesting because I

didn't think that this would be kind of a
conclusion or insight from the season of

Savor but actually the most iconic dishes
that we highlight and the most iconic

chefs that we've since as a result talked
to. Each shared that their respective

visions was to grow things into

nationwide franchise. And I think that's
beautiful because actually that means, you

know, a legacy, that means impact, that
means sustainability. And, you know, I

myself as an entrepreneur, having studied
quite a bit on the business side and

business models, once read actually a key
fact, which is that

Startups.

90% of the time, fail.

But franchises 90% of the time succeed.
And so it is because I suppose in a

startup, the product is the thing that's
on repeat.

So you're just perfecting the product?
It's a true startup. You're learning as

you go. The franchise, the business is the
repeatable success. The business itself

has become packageable and repeatable and
everything has been systematized. So

that's the business. It's proven to grow
and to scale. But for me, number one is

the food.

number one so I always want to make sure
that look we always have a test here and

if you're coming to Sunday morning and
then this doesn't pass you have to say

something but we always want you to be
able to eat it with just the fork you know

you should be able to cut our cinnamon
rolls with just the pork so it's all a

test we'll go in and we'll like eat with a
fork and it should be the way I love that

and it should be that soft. - I like that.
- We don't want to lose that, so things

like that, we're still out

out for and want to make sure it's all
there.

So um...

What's the way you're savoring life now?
That's a good question. Because as a cook,

you work so much. You give up so much of
your actual day.

until about midnight.

As a career, you give up holidays. I don't
go home for holidays.

holidays, you give up special occasions,
maybe things that you want to go to but

you can't.

I would say as I'm getting older I'm
learning to step back a bit, learning to

let go of some reins and letting my
amazing team kind of, also my team has

been trained by me so, so stepping back a
bit and letting them kind of grow.

So it's getting better. So all the young
folks, it's hard, but it gets better. It

gets better and rewarding. - Yeah,
absolutely. Well, you're like the true

definition of reinvention. You know, like
from fine dining and being led to yourself

now becoming the leader, the trainer, the
educator, the next generation and

reinventing, you know, all the dishes that
you focus on. - Thank you, thank you. I

mean, I always like, I always try to

But stay tuned, it's still a cinnamon
roll. You can reinvent the different ways

that the basis has to be.

It has to be classic, you know? I love
that. And then what's the most immediate

kind of next steps ahead for you, even
though we talked about kind of the big

vision ahead. What's kind of the big focus
right now? Right now I think we're just

going to concentrate on the cinnamon
rolls. We want to, we are always, are

ending new flavors.

Going to the season. Yeah, I think there's
some good flavors coming up even this

week. Going into, I mean we're a little
late, but going into August there should

be, going to the summer there should be
some interesting. Any hints of the

flavors? There'll be ice cream on top of
them. Oh, okay, I'm just saying, I'm gonna

like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Amazing. And
can we do a little bit of a rapid fire?

Yeah. Awesome. Fun.

So, across the saver season there's
different dishes being highlighted. One of

them is the... is pho. So what is your
favorite pho in the city? My favorite pho

in the city. Okay, so I'm from Brooklyn.
So I'm gonna go with... I believe it's

Saigon, it's at Park. Okay, great.

And what about your favorite burger?

I'm gonna give a very vanilla answer here,
but I love 7th Avenue Burger. 7th Avenue.

7th Avenue Burger? Yeah, I love it. It's
like one of those words, like, I want a

burger, it's right there, and it's always
solid. The first time I went to 7th Avenue

Burger and I'm like, can I get this and
this? And they're like, no. We serve it

this one way, and I love that. I love that
there's like the one where you get it, and

that's it.

I love that. And what about your favorite
handful of noodles? Okay.

I think it's called 1926. I can never
remember the exact number but it's 1926.

Is that what it's called? They got a
couple locations but I love them. And

Ahmet really really loves GM. Are you
talking about mandal, handball noodles?

Yes, it's like 1926. Something like that
right? There's a year attached. It's like

1926.

The fact that I know that we're talking
about it and she's about to get it.

There's one in Chinatown and one in
nearby. I love them and Ahmet, one of his

favorite foods is the the cumin lamb. Oh
really? Yeah, that's like one of his

all-time favorites. He's one of the heroes
of featuring us all. I know, I know. We

love this place. We go there every time
there's an out of towner, we go there

anytime Ahmet has like we don't know what
we're gonna eat, we go there.

It's so funny Jason has so many admirers
and he doesn't really realize. He's

another one that just grew and grew well.
And I've known him for almost 15, 20 years

or so. We met in line for a party. We were
both Forbes 30 to 30 embarrassing fact.

That is not a bad thing. That's a long
time ago.

He's a very impressive person. Very big
admirers. And he wishes one of his places

you go to is always like consistent.

Exactly. That's what I commend him for as
well. If you look at all his reviews

everywhere, every place, it's always the
top rate, each location, top ratings for

that specific location, no matter which
location. I love the consistency. And then

what is your favorite chocolate chip
cookie?

That's a tough one. I'm gonna go with
Culture Espresso. Oh, okay. Love Culture

Espresso. But listen, I had Levain
yesterday. I mean, I love chocolate chip

cookie. Yeah, but we went to Culture
Espresso actually for one of the episodes

of Savor. We talked to Tony. He's
wonderful. And you should meet actually.

You two have your mind before us.

Yeah, I want to be soon. Let's do those
disciplines. Yeah, okay, perfect. Yeah,

Johnny, similar journey as you and kind of
like at that final step of now being able

to save her because of over 20 years in
the bakery business. Yes. So I feel like

you're there. You're getting there. You're
like a few years away from being able to

know for the franchise. I love that you're
getting all these new institutions in.

But I mean, it's been such an honor
spending time with you. It was such an

inspiration. And I'm so delighted to be
able to celebrate your cinnamon rolls and

just honor the incredible work you've put
in and dedication and craft. And I

appreciate that. It's really incredible.
And thank you for highlighting New York

City. Thank you very much.

And also, Jason. He's amazing. He has so
many incredible things coming. Obviously

he's really done great on the franchise
aspects. But he's also now about to

release and you'll see, you know, this
will be probably a good blueprint for you

as well. Like a line of

You know, chili crisp and a line of all
these various things. Like obviously he

has his cookbook and he has a line of
drinks coming up. I know it's actually

anti-year philosophy of like focus on one
product. It's not. It's not. I mean, it's

the brand. We've been asked multiple times
to model the preserves like the blueberry

and the strawberry. It's not something I'm
opposed to.

That's a really good idea. Hopefully, what
day? Yeah, exactly. But we're super young.

But I love your idea of focusing on the
cinnamon roll for now and then as things

are so systematized, releasing the
preserves and everything. And in the grand

scheme of things, we're only less than a
two-year-old company. Incredible. So it's

still a baby. So you still got a baby and
then you really, really take care of it.

Yeah, when you put it that way,
absolutely. It's incredible that you've

achieved all this just under two years.

I run multiple companies actually and I
would say each one of them did get to a

place of full systematization until like
you're six to eight. Yeah, so it takes

time. Yeah, it does take time. Yeah, and
it takes time when it's done right. Yeah,

when it's done right. Exactly. Well, I'm
here if ever you need any sort of

Yeah, I'd love to. I'd love to sit down
and talk more. Excited to feature and

excited to honor you. Thank you so much.
Thank you.