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Tomorrow can be different from today.
Our lives often leave us feeling hopeless—like nothing will ever change. But perspective is everything. When you know where to look, hope can be found in the spaces and places you least expect.
Join Jason Gore (Lead Pastor of Hope Community Church) for a fresh perspective, practical steps, and weekly encouragement that hope really is possible… even in real life.
After I say no, you know, I've been out
of the industry for, for two years.
She gets really quiet and very,
you know, she's contemplating.
And then all of a sudden, you know, like a,
like a teacher does.
She got very serious, very stern, and planted her feet,
and she had something to say.
And what she said changed the rest of my life.
She looked at me and said, you're not defined
by the worst thing you've ever done.
Mm-Hmm. And you're not defined
by the greatest thing you'll ever do.
Welcome to the Hope and Real Life Podcast with Jason Gore.
Our team is passionate
and committed to bringing you more hope in the everyday
real areas of your life.
If this conversation and content is valuable for you,
please do us a favor, like, subscribe, and even share.
You never know how valuable it could be
to share a little bit of hope with someone else.
Let's get the conversation started.
Well, what is going on? Hope in Real Life family.
We have got an incredible episode for you today.
Uh, we talk about bringing hope
to the everyday moments of our lives.
This episode is for anybody out there
who feels like, man me.
Finding hope, uh, is a bit hopeless, is a bit
beyond my reach because of some decisions
that I've made in my life, or the things that I've done man,
are probably too far gone.
And if that's you, this is an episode for you.
I'm here with my good friend, Josh Broom.
Josh, welcome to the show.
Hey, man, it's always good to hang out with you. Yeah.
Um, so long term Term friend,
we'll get into that in a minute.
But Josh is a husband, father, speaker, author
of his most recent book,
seven Lies That Will Ruin Your Life.
Uh, but before we get into all that, uh, Josh,
why don't you just tell us a little
bit about yourself, about your family?
Yeah. So we live in Dallas, Texas, and, uh, my wife, hope
and I have been married for eight years,
and we've got four boys.
So, uh, 6-year-old, 4-year-old.
Uh, Judah just turned three this past weekend,
and Abel is seven months old and he is a monster.
And we're just, just waiting on that, that NLI deal for him
to be a offensive lineman.
You told me before the show, so just number one, your boy,
four boys, that in and of itself,
and so your wife Hope is with them right now,
but then strong names, man.
I mean, cannon, Lincoln, Judah, Abel, I mean strong names.
But Abel, your seven month old Yeah.
Is 24 pounds and already heavier than your 3-year-old.
Yeah, he's, he's actually, it's, they,
they wear the same diapers.
They wear the same size. That's, which is actually good.
Yeah. But, uh, yeah, he's a monster.
I mean, being the youngest of four boys, that'll be good
for him to be able to defend himself a little bit
Earlier. Yeah. And his name
is Abel, so, I mean, he's, you know,
he's gotta he's gotta watch his back. Yep.
Uh, and uh, how long have you been married?
Eight years. Eight
Years. And,
um, man,
and I, you know, I know hope, um, you got the better end of
that deal, but, you know, obviously, uh, great.
What, what, what's she up to right now?
Yeah, I mean, she's just, uh, honestly, like,
we're in the middle of things that we, uh,
like almost didn't have the guts to pray for.
Yeah. So like her, us having the opportunity to be in,
you know, a community where we do life with some people that
love Jesus, and she gets to stay at home with the kids
and, you know, it's like a stay at home mom.
You know, I, I tell people all the time, it's like,
you know, does your wife work?
I'm like, yeah, she has the most difficult
job Exactly right.
I've ever seen,
because like when we're both there, it's a lot.
Um, but yeah, I mean, she, she, uh, so
historically she was an elementary teacher for nine years,
so she actually loves writing curriculum
and she actually helps out, uh, writing curriculum for like,
other cohorts of, uh, of like moms
and dads that do homeschooling.
But she homeschools the dudes and she takes care of them,
and she, and she loves it.
And, you know, I I travel and preach almost every week,
and I, I love it when they get to come with me.
I'm super pumped. So I'm actually, uh, I'm in, uh,
Colorado Springs in a few weeks,
and Canyon's gonna come with me.
So it's the first time it's just like me and him. Yeah.
Um, going. So it's gonna be awesome. That's
Awesome. Hey, so listen,
you've got an amazing story, uh, of
what God's done in your life.
And so let's get into this right off the top.
Can you just give us an overview just of
where you have been in your life, where you were,
and then what it was that brought you to where you are now?
Yeah. So I grew up in a small town in South Carolina,
and my mom was 15 when she got pregnant with me,
16 when she had me.
And I, I shared that it was a small town
because, um, my father also lived in that town
and he was the same age and they weren't in a relationship.
So when I was born, um, I, I don't know all the, you know,
the nuance of the story,
but, um, they essentially went their separate ways.
And I saw this man that was my father,
but he never played the role of father in my life.
And that was confusing when I was young.
And eventually it was frustrating.
And, you know, just trying to figure out
how do I overcome this?
And most people have this high achiever personality.
So, um, that can be a good thing if it causes you to,
you know, you know, work with excellence
or have great work ethic.
But if you're looking at life through a broken lens
and you have that personality, it can cause you to think,
well, if I do enough, maybe I will feel
as if I'm enough.
If I, if I, you know, if I get the applause, the, you know,
the, if I, if I get the accomplishments, if I, you know,
get enough pats on the back
and, you know, accolades around my name,
and I get enough good jobs
and you're awesome, then maybe that would mitigate
what I really wanted was to hear, son, I'm proud of you.
Yeah. And, you know, that's,
that's what I was searching for.
So that looked like me becoming a good
student, which was a good thing.
But I was trying to become a good student so
that I felt like I was good enough, tried
to become the best athlete.
And, you know, I was doing all these things
and I was successful at all these things,
but I was doing them for the wrong reason
because I was so, I was trying so desperately
to mitigate a gap that I had, a deficit
that I had in my life, in my heart.
And, you know, that, that carried me into,
so I started modeling and acting when I was like
13, 14 years old.
Um, went to Francis Marian University for a few years,
studied theater, and then I dropped out my second semester,
my sophomore year, moved to Hollywood.
And I thought like, okay,
if I put myself in closer proximity to the industry I wanted
to be in, then that would make sense.
Didn't, don't, I remember from your story,
like at one point you saying you, you had plans,
you were gonna be the next Brad Pitt.
Oh, yeah. That was the plan. Yeah. That was plan.
You know, it was like, it was, it was either become Kobe
Bryant or, or Brad Pitt.
Bad news. One of those is
definitely not gonna work out for you.
Yeah, yeah. For me, it's gonna be neither.
Ain't nobody gonna confuse me with Brad Pitt. So
Yeah, man.
Um, but yeah, I, I was, uh, I moved out there
and, you know, that it, it was interesting
because, uh, I was pursuing acting
and modeling was kind of a secondary thing.
And like that was kind of what was keeping me afloat.
I was getting a decent amount of modeling jobs,
but not a ton of opportunities to act.
And along the way, um, you know, I, I think it's important
to kinda stop and, and rewind.
So when I was 13 years old, I saw pornography
for the first time, and my cousin showed it
to me at his house.
And it's important
because, you know, you, you know this as a father, part
of being a father,
and part of being a parent is you are a protector
and a provider, and there's guidelines in guardrails
that we need to put in our children's lives.
Right. And I didn't have neither,
I didn't have a biblical worldview,
or I didn't understand, you know, even what,
what does a healthy dynamic of a relationship look like?
'cause I never in my life saw my mom with, uh, a person,
and it was healthy in any way.
I, I never saw that.
So when I saw pornography, you know, Romans 12,
two talks about you're either being conformed by the world
or you're being transformed by the renewing of your mind.
The world was giving me an education of this is
what intimacy is,
and maybe this person that was desiring to be loved.
I thought, well, maybe if I, you know, act out
what I see in those pages, maybe I'll feel an emotion
that I don't feel now.
And that led to me being very promiscuous into, you know,
my, my teens and in college.
And then now I'm living in, in Hollywood.
And you know, this is now, I'm 22 years old.
I'm in Hollywood. I've been out there for a while.
And then three girls come up to me
and I think they're gonna invite me to,
you know, work on a project.
'cause they asked me if I was interested in acting.
And they were like, very quickly, they were like, no,
we were, were head hunters.
Um, essentially,
and they are looking to get me into the porn industry.
They asked, do you want to do pornography?
And, um, because I, because of the way that I had lived and
because I had seen it, um, I knew it was a bad idea.
My mom instilled, you know, some good morals within me.
Um, you know, being a good southern boy.
And, you know, I, I knew that my mom would, you know, crack,
crack me in the head if I would.
That's right. Done something like that.
But at the end of the day,
I didn't have a good reason to say no.
And when you don't have a good reason to say no,
you're more inclined to say yes.
And I, I said yes to something I ought to have said no to.
And if I'm honest, I didn't count the cost.
I thought, well, if I do one, like
what will be the big deal?
And I did it. And then, you know, it, it, it got, you know,
somewhat popular and I got popular enough.
You know, if, and the thing about living in a small town,
it only takes one person to know one thing about your life,
for everyone to know everything about your life.
And all of a sudden, you know, that made its way to my mom.
And I'm having this humiliating conversation with my mom.
'cause she's asking me if I, and how far,
How far is that after you're,
because you said you're 22, how far
after that first film was it?
Pretty much right away. Okay. So it was, um, weeks. Okay.
Like, it was about two weeks after I did that. Um, so yeah.
So I, I had that conversation with her
and, you know, at that point in my life, you know,
really tracking,
because at the end of the day, like all
of our problems are identity problems.
And, you know, if, if, if you dig even deeper,
they're, they're worship problems.
Yeah. Like, who, yeah. Who you believe Jesus to be and, and,
and who you give your worship to.
Um, that kind of
determines the way in which you live your life.
And for me, my identity was, I was my mother's son.
That was the thing that I was most proud of.
That was the thing that I was most sure of.
And then when I hurt the only person that never hurt me,
that did something in me,
and the feelings of inadequacy that I already had,
it was almost like I proved to myself
that I was exactly who I thought I was.
Hmm. And when that happened, you know, I, I think it's,
it's often when people experience trauma, they,
they justify things that, you know, externally,
you know, from the outside looking in.
Like that wouldn't make any sense to someone else,
but it makes sense in your head.
I thought, well, I disqualified myself from being her son,
so I'm gonna do her a favor.
And even though my mom continued to pursue me, I
stopped answering the phone.
I stopped returning her text
because I thought, what good could I provide
her and her life?
How could, how could I be a son to her after what I've done?
And then I just stayed in that industry,
and I stayed in that industry for a little over six years.
And I thought, well, if I'm here,
I might as well make the best of it.
And then I start telling myself this lie, well,
if I make enough money, if I have enough success,
if I do enough, you know, X, y
and z, it would equate
to me feeling differently about myself.
And I thought, okay, well, you know,
I grew up not having money.
And I thought, well, if I eclipse a million dollars earned,
that would equate to me not feeling inadequate.
I feel like I was somebody
because something about
an additional comma in my bank account would
mitigate the deficit I had emotionally.
And, you know, it didn't work. And yeah.
Josh, can I just, I just wanna highlight for a minute all
of this in what the way you're saying it,
and it keeps going back to,
'cause you said, all of our problems are really identity
problems and all of this,
I just think it's worth recognizing for you.
So much of it went back to, and I didn't have a dad around
or somebody to say, I'm proud of you son.
And so there's this constant sense of inadequacy Yeah.
That you're looking to be filled somewhere.
And yeah, I think it's good just to recognize that
as individuals, you know.
Um, but I think it's also good just for us to recognize,
man, all of us have got young men
and young women around us that they might not have
that person in their life as well.
And man, anytime we get an opportunity to speak value
and worth into somebody just
because of who they simply are, man,
you have no idea the impact that
that could have on their life later.
Yeah. I mean, I, I would say that a a thousand percent
because I mean, you look at the data, it's like, you know,
a a lot of the conversations I have is around, you know,
building sexual integrity or rebuilding sexual integrity.
But fatherlessness is something I talk about a lot.
And if you look at all the world's, like major contributors
to, you know, what we would call problems,
fatherlessness is the best predictor of, you know, someone,
um, you know, being in a relationship where there's abuse,
you know, leading a, a life
that you end up getting arrested, you know, um, like all,
all these things like abortion crime, like, you name it,
it's like something that is, is, uh,
typical within a conversation
that's problematic in this world,
fatherlessness is generally a predictor
of brokenness in their life in some way.
Um, so yeah, like find, like, find someone
to, to pour into you.
And if you're that person that you know is, is hanging
around at the coffee shop
and you see someone, uh, with a notebook
and they're looking around, it's like, man, uh,
the the thing that you've been praying for to pour into,
they need that so badly
Hope in real life family.
I want to take a moment and let you know about a resource
that we have for you, for your own personal development,
spiritual enrichment, and really a way for you
to find a bit more hope in real life.
We have a tool for you called the Hope in Real Life app.
It offers things like parenting tips, financial resources,
marriage insights, uh, if you're looking for it,
there's even Bible reading plans in there.
And there's a community
where you can even share prayer requests
and know that someone is praying for you for whatever it is
that you have going on in your life.
It's available right now in the Apple App
Store or in Google Play.
You can search hope in real life in both stores,
or you can use the download link that is in the show notes.
Remember, tomorrow can be better than today
and hope is possible even in real life.
So you said you, you're involved in the adult film ministry.
Um, yeah. You stand here today, not, yeah. Not involved.
So at some point there was a change,
and you might want to add some more to that story.
And so if you want to go back to it, feel free. Yeah.
But at some point I'd love to hear like, when did,
when did something snap?
Like when did you know you needed God?
And, and what was that turnaround like for you?
Yeah. So I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll tell this quickly
'cause I know I can be long-winded.
Um, but, so in
2012, I won an award that essentially was like, you're,
you're the most, you know, successful in the industry.
Like, you know, it was the male male
performer of the year or whatever.
Um, and I thought if I won that award, like
that would solidify like, okay, um, the studios
and the people who are in the industry voted
that I was, you know, the best.
And I thought if I was chosen, um, that would
solidify something in me.
And when I won that award,
and it didn't make me feel like I thought it would,
the anxiety that I had was amplified.
The depression that I already had was deepened.
And I made a very clear plan to take my life.
And the day that I was gonna take my life,
I even needed permission from someone to do that.
So I walked into a bank, um, I had a check.
Generally I would avoid an interaction with a person
because I didn't wanna hand the check that had a memo
that was clear that I was being compensated, um,
for doing something I wasn't proud of.
But on this day, that's exactly what I wanted.
And I walked in, slid the check across the counter,
and I looked her in the eyes,
and I waited for her to say something antagonistic,
to shake her head to do something,
to give me permission to harm myself.
And instead she said nothing.
And then as I was about to walk away,
the transaction was over.
She looked at me and said, Joshua, are you okay, Joshua?
How can I help you? And she saw that I was, you know, I was,
I was, I was clammy, I was sweaty, I was afraid.
And very much like Act 16 moment, you know, the, the,
the jailer, you know, the,
after the earthquake, the, the jailer grabs a sword,
and he knew he had one job to, to keep people in themselves.
And when the earthquake happened, the,
the jail cells opened up.
And corporal, you know,
punishment was the norm in that Roman culture.
And he grabbed the sword and he was gonna take his life.
And Paul simply said, don't harm yourself. I'm right here.
Yeah. And in, in the same way she saying my name,
it snapped me out of that.
And it was because in that industry, you don't go
by your real name, you go by a pseudonym.
And I pushed out everyone in my life.
So I hadn't heard my real name in over a year.
And when she said that, I ran to my mom, I, I went running
and crying, and I called my mom.
And after she chewed me out, uh, she, she said everything.
I didn't think she would. She said, I love you,
you always be my son.
Please come home. You're,
you're worth so much more than this.
And I did.
Um, but what I brought with me was the, the mo the,
the mental and emotional trauma that came with that.
So I, I was like, okay.
I got a job working in the health
and fitness space, started working at One CrossFit gym.
Um, ended up getting a job, uh, full-time at another one.
Before that, I was working at a grocery
store and a CrossFit gym.
Uh, and then I was working at this CrossFit gym,
and he got a great mentor.
Um, I think a mutual friend of ours, Jason Davidson, he, uh,
leads the Thor program at Fort Bragg.
Used to be a strength conditioning coach
for the Carolina Hurricanes, but just like the guy.
So it just like, kind of same thing.
Get the best mentor, get the right credentials.
And I thought if I put enough good dirt at my bad dirt,
even though I can't change, maybe I can minimize
or alter the way in which I'm perceived.
I can manage the way that someone perceives me.
And maybe if I have enough accolades on my name,
even though the reality of who I am, maybe
that will outweigh the things I've done.
And that's the way I was living my life.
And then in Walk, this girl
that was the prettiest girl I've ever seen,
and she could walk on her hands and do all the things,
and I asked her on a date,
and she said no a few times. And eventually,
I just wanna point out if you can walk on your hands Yeah.
And do all the things, like, for some people
that's a higher priority than others.
Like for me, I've never thought if my wife could walk on her
hands, but for you it was like the top of the list. So
Yeah. Yeah.
She, she was, you know, she was a lifetime gymnast.
Yeah. She was a, uh, she had like Iowa Hawkeye, everything.
She cheered at Iowa. And, um, we,
we ended up going on a run.
And on that run, I felt, uh, a feeling
that I had experienced in a long
time, and it was conviction.
And I was like, Hey, um, I, I, I feel a need
to tell you who I am,
because if you, if you knew you wouldn't be here,
and I, I was like, Hey, you know, I pretty much blacked out.
It's like, here's a five minute monologue
of every bad thing I've ever done.
And, you know, she very quickly was like, Hey, uh,
are are you still doing this stuff?
I was like, no, I've been outta the industry
for two years at this point.
And, uh, this is actually on Easter,
nine years ago when this conversation's taking place.
And, um, she,
after I say no, you know, I've been out
of the industry for, for two years.
She gets really quiet and very,
you know, she's contemplating.
And then all of a sudden, you know, like a,
like a teacher does, she got very serious, very stern,
and planted her feet.
And she had something to say.
And what she said changed the rest of my life.
She looked at me and said, you're not defined
by the worst thing you've ever done.
Mm-Hmm. And you're not defined
by the greatest thing you'll ever do
Hope in real life family.
I wanna pause for a moment
and let you know about an opportunity
that I believe can help you find a bit more
hope in everyday life.
Listen, I know a lot of our viewers probably aren't a part
of a church, or maybe you gave up on the church a long time
ago and, and believe me, uh, possibly for good reason.
I understand. Uh,
but I don't want you to miss out on the hope
that you can actually experience by journeying along side
of a group of people that really are seeking
God's best for their lives.
If you are the least bit curious, uh, we try to make this
as simple for you as we possibly can, wherever it is
that you digest digital content podcast, you can go
to the podcast store, you can check it out on YouTube
and just search Hope Community Church.
You'll be able to find our messages
there and check those out.
Or if you actually want to tune in during a service time,
uh, you can go to get Hope TV at four 15
or 6:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
or you can tune in at nine 30
or 11:15 AM Eastern Standard Time.
Again, that's at Get Hope tv.
We hope that you'll take a chance with us
and experience what it is God has for you in your life.
You're gonna find practical messages
that will help you find hope in
the everyday moments of your life. Hope you'll check it
Out. I knew
about God,
but I certainly didn't have a relationship with, with him.
And, you know, very, like Colossians four, six, you know,
her, her speech was, uh, seasoned with sought and gracious.
And she knew how she also responded to me.
And, uh, the way that she responded with both truth
and grace, it, it captivated me and,
and created some curiosity in me.
And then we, you know, we, we text and hung out that week.
And then, um, there was a church that she was attending,
but, um, there were several people at the gym that went
to this church that had a Saturday night service.
Hmm. And, um, called Hope, hope Community Church. And
I know that church.
Yeah. And, uh, I, I went there
and I, I, like, I have no business being here,
but wherever this pretty girl goes, I, I'm gonna follow.
And, um, I, I walk in there and I, I heard the gospel
and it leveled me.
And I, I'll, you know,
it's like I've probably preached the sermon
that was preached to me.
Um, you know, I I, I added some things and, and and whatnot.
But, um, it was second Samuel chapter nine
and talking about my peth
and just when, uh, David offers him, you know, the, his,
his grandfather's land and the seat of this table
and invite miss to his kingdom.
But second Samuel, chapter nine, verse eight, when he says,
essentially, don't you know who I am refers
to himself as a dead dog?
I was like, yeah, that's me.
And then the next thing I heard was Hebrews 12 two talking
about it was joy set before him that he endured the cross.
And something about that just crushed me.
'cause I realized that the God of the universe
with love in his heart went to the cross, not
because I deserved it, because he loved me.
Hmm. And when I realized that there was a father in heaven
that loved me so much that he sent his son to the cross
who willingly suffered
and died for me,
it opened my heart in a way that only the Holy Spirit could.
Yeah. And I surrendered my life to Jesus.
And, um, you know, that stood up with, uh, snot
and tears in my eyes.
And, uh, and, and a few days went by
and then, uh, I show up at Hope
and I'm like, Hey, can I talk to somebody?
And I walk into to Gary Vet's office,
and I'm like, I think I told him I
wanted to build a boat or something.
I told him something crazy. It's like, I was like,
I feel like God wants to need me to build a boat.
And, um, it's funny
'cause I, I've actually had several dreams about that.
But, um, I shared with him, you know, what had happened.
And he introduced me to Andrew Yates
and Andrew Yates sat down with the Bible
and he was like, Hey, um, you know, I,
I don't really have time, uh, to, to do this.
He, he, he shares this with me on the back end.
But like, um, instead of just saying, Hey, here's a Bible,
read the book of John, get plugged into a small group,
he sat down and he taught me how to read the Bible.
And he taught me how to study the Bible.
And he gave me time that he didn't have.
And he discipled me. And it, it changed my life.
And in the same way that Jesus saved my life, the,
the Bible transformed my life.
I love the, you know, ex you know, compare it to the,
the Israelites, uh, coming out of Egypt while you know,
Moses, you know, God used Moses to lead them out of Egypt.
Yep. The law got Egypt out of them.
And in the same way as I started to compare
and contrast what God said was best for me, and, and I,
and I, I knew what I thought and how I felt
and what I believed before.
And they just collided in his love and his grace.
It eroded things from my life.
And, um, eventually ended up going to, to Liberty
and got a degree in Christian ministries
and ended up on a few, uh, church staffs
and did some cool stuff.
And, um, and then the, the video that we, uh, that,
that we filmed, so, uh, that Tyler filmed in like,
I don't know, like 2014, 2000.
Yeah. Somewhere. I mean, you're coming up on a
round. Is that a decade?
Yeah, a decade ago.
'cause because we, 'cause we made the video
so long that we couldn't use it.
Yeah. Um, and then he didn't really know what to do with it.
And then he, he, he, uh, released it during COVID. Yeah.
And that video came out.
And what came outta that was Tucker Carlson called me.
I flew out to Portland, Maine and spent a few days with him,
and he interviewed me live on Fox.
And he asked me, how do you go from being a porn
star to teaching the Bible?
And I was like, oh, let me tell you.
And the answer was the gospel. Yeah.
And I walked him through the gospel, uh, live on Fox
to 4.2 million people.
And my life has been different ever since.
But it's like, I love that God allowed me to be in the dark,
to heal, to learn, to grow, to be formed, so
that I would have an answer for the hope that I have.
Yeah. And you know, that's, you know, I,
I love sharing my story
because man, it, it doesn't matter how, you know,
how far gone you feel like you are, what you've done,
what's happened to you.
It's so easy to disqualify yourself from your dreams
and your hopes and your desires.
But, you know, we, we serve a God of Ephesians three 20.
He stands ready to do exceedingly,
abundantly more than you can ever hope or imagine.
And I'll share with you this,
and I'll stop talking for a second.
Um, I, I wrote down on a piece of paper the day
that I was gonna take my life reasons I want to die.
I will never be a father.
I wanted to become the thing I never had.
I want, I'll never become a husband.
And I, I knew the difference.
Maybe I could find someone to get pregnant
or maybe I could find someone to, to, you know,
do a wedding ceremony with,
but I knew what I never saw my mom have.
And I wanted to become that to someone.
I wanted to love someone that way.
And the last thing I wrote was, I'll never contribute
to the world that leads to positive change.
And you know, God is more gracious
and he wants more
for you than you would have the guts to dream of.
Yeah. And that's not the prosperity gospel.
That's who he is. That
Is who he is, man. And
I love how you, again, this whole thing of identity and,
and trying to please and trying to be good enough,
and then you came face to face with
what I wish we could somehow find a way to put in front
of the entire world is that regardless of what you've done,
regardless of what you've been, there is a God
that loves you just because he created you.
Yeah. And, uh, and not only that,
but he's willing to go to great links
and go all in, uh, to make a way for you
to be back in a relationship with him,
hope and real life family.
We are gonna press pause on this conversation
and we will pick it right back up in the next episode.
Listen, if there is somebody in your life
that you know needs to hear this conversation, as always,
please take a moment and share it with him.
You never know the difference
that you will make when you're looking to bring hope
into a place where someone desperately needs it.
We'll see you when we continue the
conversation on the next episode.
Thanks for tuning into this episode
of The Hope in Real Life podcast.
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Until next time, let's keep sharing hope.