Effekt

00.00.40: Introductions
00.02.08: Thank you to our new patrons: Uhtred43; Sol Franklin and Andy B
00.06.07: World of Gaming: Uk Games Expo report (Frank's vid of the tournament); Neil Kingham's Tower of the Lich Lord, a Symbaroum chose your fighting fantasy adventure; Kickstarters: The Dark Age of Theer from Starfleet Captain Liam Sharp(!); AniMort; Hollows from Rowan Rook and Deckard (crowdfunding on Backerkit); Dave Going to Tabletop Scotland
00.37.02: Old West News
00.49.28: Interview - Andrew E.C. Gaska on the Planet of the Apes RPG kickstarter
01.35.53: Next time and Goodbye

Effekt is brought to you by Fictionsuit and RPG Gods. Music is by Stars in a Black Sea, used with kind permission of Free League Publishing.
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Creators & Guests

DS
Host
Dave Semark
Dave is co-host and writer on the podcast, and part of the writing team at Free League - he created the Xenos for Alien RPG and as been editor and writer on a number of further Alien and Vaesen books, as well as writing the majority the upcoming Better Worlds book. He has also been the Year Zero Engine consultant on War Stories and wrote the War Stories campaign, Rendezvous with Destiny.
MT
Host
Matthew Tyler-Jones
Matthew is co host of the podcast, as well as writer, producer, senior editor, designer and all round top dog. He was also been involved a couple of project for Free League - writing credits include Alien RPG, Vaesen: Mythic Britain and Ireland, and Vaesen: Seasons of Mystery as well as a number of Free League Workshop products.

What is Effekt?

A fan podcast celebrating (mostly Swedish) RPGs including, but not limited to: Coriolis; Forbidden Lands; Symbaroum; Tales from the Loop; and, Alien.

Dave:

Hello on what is a beautiful summer's day here in Blighty, And welcome to episode 234 of Effect. You blew it up. Damn you. Goddamn you all to hell. I'm Charlton.

Matthew:

And I'm Matthew. Welcome, Charlton. It's not so sunny here at south of London, I have to say. You might be seeing lovely blue skies.

Dave:

It's glorious here. Yeah.

Matthew:

Well, it was glorious this morning when I got up and said, right, I'm gonna have my breakfast outside. And by the time I've made my breakfast and carried it outside, it had clouded over to a still gray sky. There we go.

Dave:

Life's a

Matthew:

good day, Shane. Anyway, we've got a packed episode to talk about. So let's get stuck on, stuck into it.

Dave:

Stuck on.

Matthew:

We've got, 33, count them, 3 new patrons to, to welcome. Excellent. We've got quite a bit of news from the world of gaming, including 3, count them, 3 new Kickstarters. See what I did there?

Dave:

You can count to 3. I'm very impressed.

Matthew:

Well done. We've got some more exciting news from, the old west. And Yay. We've got an an interview with our old friend of the show and your frequent collaborator, Andrew Gasker.

Dave:

Indeed. We have. What a packed show we've got.

Matthew:

Yeah. And, shall we crack on with the new patrons then?

Dave:

Let's. Go on then.

Matthew:

We've got 3 new patrons. Only one of which has got a real name where it's the whole name, but I know who it is, and that's Sol Franklin. So,

Dave:

Welcome, Sol.

Matthew:

Say hi to Sol.

Dave:

Yeah. Great.

Matthew:

Thank you for joining us. The other 2 have slight well, one has an abbreviated name, and the other one has a made up name. So made up name is Utred 43. Utred, thank you for your support.

Dave:

It might not be an entirely made up name. I mean, the 43 might be. But, Utred could easily be a surname or a first name. But, you know, it's I think I think you're just being a bit nameless by automatically assuming that it's a make entirely made up name.

Matthew:

Well, I just love Utrecht from, The Last Kingdom. So, I I I'm very happy to see Utrecht about our supporters. I'm not convinced this is the same bloke.

Dave:

Maybe. Perhaps. But no. Welcome, and thank you, uchaird 43, for for joining us. That's brilliant.

Matthew:

And then we have a second, Andy b, as on our patrons. But I don't know what his b stands for.

Dave:

I I I I think it might be Bridgewater. And if it is if it is, we had a great chat, at UK Games Expo. It was fabulous to to meet him. Yeah. And brilliant.

Dave:

Welcome. If it wasn't, if it's a different Andy b, welcome as well. So I I I it might be. It might be that lovely fellow. So, you'd think, you know, with with with the information and stuff we get with our Patreon that we might be able to know people's names.

Dave:

But I Yes. You're the tech you're the tech support guy here. So, you know

Matthew:

No. No. I only know the names that they give to a Twitch account. And Excuse me. Some people use their real names or some people use a name that looks real.

Matthew:

Other people use, you know, an Internet handle. And, I think Patron oh, Patreon, who knows their credit card details may know their actual real names, but they don't pass it onto us.

Dave:

Right. Fair enough.

Matthew:

Which is fine because, they I don't want, you know, other other patron

Dave:

No. No. We're not we're not we're not trying to farm our patrons, bank account details. We have bank details. I

Matthew:

think I think that's a level of security that I'm happy with. Well, by the way, could help

Dave:

could help with Tells the Old West, don't you mind? Maybe we should think about that.

Matthew:

Yeah. And, of course, actually, when you say, Andy b, is he, is he the chap who joined during UK Games Expo

Andrew E.C Gaska:

when

Dave:

we were when

Matthew:

we were there?

Andrew E.C Gaska:

And I

Dave:

think I think Sol did as well, because, I've chatted to Sol on and off for years at different conventions and never knew his name. And always had a really good chat. Really real real fun guy. Real pleasure to chat to him. But then he came over and talked we talked a bit about, tales of the old west.

Dave:

And, yeah. Delighted to see him, turn up on the Patreon. Absolutely fabulous. So, yeah, thank you to to all of you and to everybody who supports us. As always, we as we said before, we couldn't do this without your support.

Dave:

So, we are we are eternally grateful for, for all the support that we get. Entirely undeserved, I suspect, in most cases. But, but thank thank you anyway. We do appreciate it.

Matthew:

Well, I know you don't deserve

Dave:

it, Dave. No. Maybe not.

Matthew:

However, I deserve the support of our patrons because I put up with you all the time. So,

Dave:

Maybe that's it. They're just they're just paying you as as, you know, as

Matthew:

they're gonna Add the sympathy.

Dave:

Compensation for having to deal with me all the time. Yeah. That that that makes sense. I get that. So,

Matthew:

thank you for being so understanding. In fact, actually, that makes me think, on on our little running order, we are now moving into the world of gaming. But I wonder whether we should kick off the world of gaming with an unscheduled thing. What are your impressions of UK Games Expo last week? Because although, last episode was recorded live at UK UK Games Expo, We haven't actually had a chance to We have no way.

Matthew:

Patrons about it.

Dave:

It was great. Okay. It was greater than great. It was it was it was the best one I've been to so far. And, I think, you know, there's several reasons for that.

Dave:

You know, we were really busy in the whole the whole weekend, which is which is, you know, brilliant. Obviously, the stand went really well. Working for Freeleagu is always a pleasure. They are they are very supportive, you know, employers as it were in that sense. Mhmm.

Dave:

And we had a great time, and we sold lots of stuff, and it was fabulous talking about all these games that we love. So that was brilliant. Obviously, we were promoting tales of the old west as well, and it was it was brilliant how many people came up to talk to us about that. You know, before they wanted to talk about the free league stuff. So that was that was super that was that was really quite, what's the word I'm looking for?

Dave:

Kind of reassuring that actually we might be onto something with tales of Yeah. West. That it did seem to to to to to build a bit of buzz and a bit of momentum and a bit of interest and excitement. And that was that was fabulous. We also had my, I did my seminar with, my my my

Matthew:

pen With Steve Jackson.

Dave:

With Steve Jackson, which was brilliant. That was such good fun. You know, Steve was a really good, presentation partner because, you know, I I wasn't worried he was gonna take over. I mean, having met him on the Thursday, briefly, you know, I didn't get any, you know he's not a big ego like that. He's not like walks into the room and I'm Steve, and everyone must do what I, you know, everyone must pay homage to me.

Dave:

He's not like that at all. And he was brilliant. So he was very very kind of respectful of fact that this was my seminar, and he was like a co host guest. And we did a really good 2 hand thing and and, you know, we kind of both chipped in and it went it seemed to go really well. It was really well attended.

Dave:

It was standing and sitting on the floor room only. And everyone seemed everyone seemed to enjoy it. I don't know how many people we had there. It must have been 60 or 70 because the room was pretty packed. And it was brilliant, really enjoyed that.

Dave:

And then obviously we had our, our our live podcast, which obviously heard on the last episode. So I won't go I won't go into that, but that was always quite fun. It's a real pleasure.

Matthew:

Make their own impressions of whether that was a success or not.

Dave:

So I think I think on the whole, in in every sense, it was a great convention in that all the usual stuff I love to do at conventions happened. You know, I get to meet all my old friends and and chat to people, meet new friends and that's just fabulous fun. But also in terms of the sort of the commercial is the wrong word, but kind of the business, interest in going into it, it all went as well as I think we could have hoped. And, we had lots of interviews. We'll we'll get some, you know, actual plays with people like on tabletop coming in the next couple of months for Tales of the Old West.

Dave:

Thanks to it. So, yeah, it was a great it was a great con. Loved it. Had great fun. And, yeah, I look forward to next year.

Matthew:

Yeah. I think we were very lucky to get that interview with, on Tabletop.

Dave:

Yeah. But I mean, it was interesting though because when they came with when Gerry and and Justin came over to talk to us for the free league stuff, we,

Dave:

you know, we were gonna mention it to them. But before we did, Jerry said, oh, I hear there's something else that we might wanna talk about. So he'd obviously heard about Tells the Odd West from somewhere else.

Matthew:

It's all those leaflets are handed out, mate.

Dave:

Well, yeah. Absolutely. That was that was the point. But it was great that the word was spreading without us just pushing it. And it was that was that was really again being a first time kickstarter, the the biggest anxiety is not, you know, the biggest anxiety is is how the hell do we judge what kind of support we're gonna get and how many backers will back us when it comes to it.

Dave:

And the very fact that the message was spreading, like, organic organically.

Matthew:

Without us being involved.

Dave:

Yeah. It was it was really quite was really quite, yeah. That was quite a boost actually. Yeah. Very exciting.

Matthew:

Yeah.

Dave:

How about

Matthew:

you? So I work I did slightly fewer hours on the stand as I had done in the past. Mainly because, you know, I know how poor you are now, Dave, and I need you I know you need the hours more than me.

Dave:

I am quite poor.

Matthew:

I thought the whole I wanted to be fair to the whole team and give everybody else as many hours as they could. Mhmm. But and I thought I'd have more time to go around the other stands and chat. And I did, but not as much more time to go around the other stands as I thought I would have, or rather it's huge. It's an a massive massive thing.

Matthew:

So, I came away and I realized, I didn't see, the lovely modular realms stall at all.

Dave:

I did bump into you know what? I can't remember her name.

Matthew:

Now you see, I was coming for the fact that I couldn't remember her name by saying the lovely modular world was stalled.

Dave:

No. No.

Dave:

I bumped into it after I'd so the the other thing was obviously absolutely amazing. Great. And modjail realms should have won best

Matthew:

accessory, but instead a book won best accessory.

Dave:

Well, yeah.

Matthew:

I'm gonna get over that.

Dave:

But yes. So yeah. She was at the, at the at the award ceremony on the Sunday. And we bumped into each other there and had a really nice chat for a few minutes. And she's just such a the loveliest person and I'm

Matthew:

very annoyed Lovely. Very annoyed

Dave:

of myself for not being able to remember her name, which is really bad. But she was saying she's had a really good convention. It gone well. She'd really enjoyed it. And, yeah, as always, like she did on the whole weekend of Comic Con, she just had this huge beaming smile on her face.

Dave:

Absolutely most lovely positive person ever. Yeah. So that was Oh,

Matthew:

actually, you know what? I did bump into her. I still can't remember her name, but I did bump into her. When Dave and I arrived and parked not Dave and I, you're Dave. When Tom and I arrived in my car and parked somewhere other than you on the 1st day, they parked directly behind us.

Matthew:

So Oh, okay. As we all got out of our cars, we said hi. But then I didn't see her for the

Matthew:

rest of the weekend. So there's that. The other big thing I did, was, the Dragonbane tournament

Dave:

Indeed.

Matthew:

Which was brilliant. Mhmm. Absolutely brilliant.

Dave:

Yeah. I've heard a lot of good stuff about it. Yeah.

Matthew:

It worked really well. All the teams are in exactly the first half of the second hour. And, the the best thing is you could see that the leading team, which was for most of the 2 hours was the, Liverpool War Games Association. You could see them in in the last score that I put up on the boards. They were actually, one step one point below another team.

Matthew:

And obviously, they weren't having that.

Dave:

Nice.

Matthew:

They'd they'd pretty much finished the adventure, but then they decided to scour the rest of rest of the tower for more treasure to to get their score up. So it was a nail biting finish. And then, I I I don't think even the team that was beating them at that point came came second. I think, another team beat them. But it was it was lovely.

Matthew:

Cool. A friend of the show, Frank, Raldanash on YouTube has, done a couple of little videos including my, prize giving announcement, which is unintentionally hilarious because the big screen started to turn itself off halfway through while I was pausing dramatically. So, it looked a little bit, Fawlty Towers, but, when

Dave:

Fair enough.

Matthew:

Running around knowing not no having no idea where the remote control might be. Well, Millie actually found the remote control and fixed it. Anyway, so yeah. But generally, Yeah. I think I agree with you.

Matthew:

Best ever so far.

Dave:

Yeah. Yeah. I think the the last

Matthew:

thing will be the best ever.

Dave:

Yeah. It's always gonna be the best ever. Every year will get better. Then with the the last thing I'll just say on that is, a huge thank you to Millie and, all the other organizers for making it such a good show. That was brilliant.

Dave:

But also a great thank you to the rest of our team. So I think it it was Lily's and well, it wasn't Lily's first time because she covered for me at Dragonbeat, didn't she? But it was George's first time, and Dean's done it a couple of times now. But as a team, they were all superb and, obviously Tom as well, of course. And, yeah, it was great.

Dave:

A brilliant team. Brilliant performance. Everyone just did a great job, and made it all really good fun. So just a quick a quick shout out to the team for doing such an amazing job.

Matthew:

George was running,

Dave:

a new Zone walls.

Matthew:

Zone walls, constantly. And, I remember when when you and I were first doing demos for Free League

Dave:

It's hard work.

Matthew:

On our very first UK Games Expo. And, we we we didn't want to do it constantly. You know, for the start, we alternated. We also did different adventures every time so he didn't go mad. And George just carried on and did the same adventure again and again and again and again.

Matthew:

And, everybody loved it.

Dave:

Yeah. And often They got

Matthew:

some lovely feedback as well from people.

Dave:

And then well, and it was it was it was, remarkable the number of times that people came straight from the demo to the table to buy the game, which just shows how good the demo was. So George did a great, great job. That was that was very impressive.

Matthew:

Brilliant.

Dave:

Cool.

Matthew:

Yeah. We almost sold out. I I only regret not getting quite as many expansion sets in stock as core sets.

Dave:

Hadn't kinda realized that people were gonna buy the 2 together and might not

Matthew:

buy this. The And I think possibly not having the expansion set means that we didn't necessarily sell out of all the core sets. I think we would have done if we had an expansion set for each.

Dave:

But Yeah.

Matthew:

Lessons learned.

Dave:

Indeed. Lessons learned. We still had a record breaking trip, which was great. Yeah. So really great that it's a great success for 3 d, great success for us.

Matthew:

Yeah. And I think it's worth saying as well to our listeners. So, you know, this is mostly a role playing podcast, and thus, you and I were less interested in running, Zone Wars because we thought it was just a skirmish game. Yeah. But it's actually quite board game y in the way it runs.

Matthew:

It's not just a skirmish game. There's quite a lot of cleverness and different victory conditions. So,

Dave:

there's a

Matthew:

there If there are other like minded people to us who who don't think they're into a skirmish game, listening, then check it out because it was great fun and beautifully made as usual.

Dave:

Yeah. Cool.

Matthew:

Okay. Rest the rest of the world of gaming. We met Neil there, of course, who might have helped us on our stand if he'd been more available at the time when we needed him, but but he wasn't. Now Neil has just produced a lovely, lovely, lovely thing on the Free League workshop.

Dave:

Yes. It's a Cymbal it's not a, what was it's not a, what's the word? Make not make your own tail, but it basically, it's a solo game

Matthew:

Choose your own adventure. Choose your own adventure. Trademarked term by Scholastic Publishing, which I'm definitely not allowed to use.

Dave:

So it's not one of those. But, yeah, it's a cymbal room solo game.

Matthew:

Neither is it a fighting fantasy. No.

Dave:

Called Tower of the Lich Lord. So, yeah, I haven't bought it yet because I was trying to see whether there was a print on demand version because I'd much prefer a print version. But I'm not sure.

Matthew:

I've already answered that for a mate of yours that replied to your thing. And no, we don't yet have on the 3 League workshop the possibility of print on demand. Yeah. So I'll have

Dave:

I'll have to just buy it as a PDF then because I would definitely buy it. Yeah.

Matthew:

I was hoping to get it as

Dave:

print on demand.

Matthew:

I'll tell you what. So as you may well know, we have an affiliate link for people that click on our links to Free League for the things we've done Free League, and that earns us a little bit of money. So I will spend that money on Neil's book. Okay. Cool.

Matthew:

Excellent. And send send it to you. Yeah. But I

Dave:

think I think one of the greatest, sort of testimonials, which is which you'll see if you look at the, at the at the at the drive through, the the post for it, is, a comment from Matthias Jonsson Harker, which is, you know, I've been fantasizing about a solo game book for Cymbrem ever since we started designing the the game. And here it is. Dark, deep, and deadly with elegant mechanics, great replayability, and a story and setting that feels very, very Simba. So cool. Very good.

Dave:

Very good endorsement there.

Matthew:

Endorsement there.

Dave:

From the man who knows all about simba room. Yeah. So, yeah, I I know Neil has been working on this for a couple of years now. It's been a bit of a labor of love. It looks lovely.

Dave:

We did get a chance to have a quick look at it. I'm I'm very sorry I didn't manage to give Neil the feedback. He'd asked for it.

Matthew:

Alright. Neil Neil and I had a separate conversation. I don't know why he came to me for this web. And that was about pricing.

Dave:

Yeah. Right.

Matthew:

And, I think both he and I then when I thought about it, considered it a very hard thing to price. I will say when you look at it in the store, you may think it's expensive. I think it's probably $20, £16, something like that.

Dave:

Well, it says here $16.

Matthew:

$16. Yeah.

Dave:

So that's gonna be about 12 quid. Yeah. 12 or 13.

Matthew:

And, we were really stuck because, you know, it's about 300 pages long.

Dave:

It's it's 250. 350. 350. Yeah. That's what it is.

Dave:

So it's you're not you're not getting a pamphlet for your money here. You're getting a, you know, you're getting a a fully fledged book.

Matthew:

Yeah. And there's illustrations as well, but it is more like a fighting fantasy or choose your own adventure book. So, you know, lots of text, loads of numbered paragraphs. And it was a very difficult thing to price because there are really very few comparators. And I remember when, Neil announced it on the Discord, 1 or 2 of our patrons are a little bit shocked at the price.

Matthew:

Okay. But then bought it anyway and thought realized what great value it is. Value it

Dave:

was. Yeah.

Matthew:

If you look at it and you get a little bit of price shot seeing it for 16 quid, it's worth every penny.

Dave:

It's not 16 quid. It's $16. So

Matthew:

$16. So bear

Dave:

that in mind. I mean, $16 for a 350 page book is, you know, not outrageous in this day and age.

Dave:

You know? Yeah. That's like 12 quid for a for a thick book. And I'm not

Dave:

sure how many words that'll equate to, but it's gonna be something like a 150,000 or more. So it's a lot of words.

Matthew:

Yeah. I mean, if we do ever persuade the free or persuade drive through that 3 lead workshops should be allowed to have print on demand things, That's gonna be quite a pricey print book as well, I imagine. Yeah. Yeah. But we shall, we shall see.

Dave:

But it looks it looks great. Now I know it's not put on demand. I will go and buy it anyway and then play it. Really looking forward to it. It should be really cool.

Matthew:

Cool. Cool. Cool. So that's that's our first item. Then we've got 3 kick starters

Dave:

Our trios which we will,

Matthew:

obviously, we'll put links to these in the show notes. These go to, these links go to Kia. So we don't have an affiliate link with Kickstarter. So, feel free to follow those without making us any money. We've got, the first one I think is really interesting.

Matthew:

So Band of Badgers were really excited about this at UK Games Expo. And, and you'll you'll have seen we've probably reposted their social media on it cause they were just so excited. Yeah. And I didn't twig why they were excited about this. It's a a fantasy adventure, slightly dark prog metal, I would argue, world, lots of swirly bubbly writing about it.

Matthew:

It's called the Dark Age of Fear. But then I realized who the author was.

Dave:

Todd Stashwick. Yeah. Do you know who Todd Stashwick actually is? I I I don't, actually.

Matthew:

Have you seen Picard 3? Series 3, I mean.

Dave:

No.

Matthew:

Right.

Dave:

So you see that?

Matthew:

In the Picard series 3, so it's In the Picard series 3. He's the right one. He's a bloody fucking star, mate.

Dave:

Is he? Okay.

Matthew:

Yeah. Well, I So Well, I if

Dave:

if if Picard season 1 had been any good, I'd have watched season 2 and season 3. So, you know, it's it's own fault.

Matthew:

Well, let me tell you that season 3 was better than 1 or 2. It's still not great, but it's there are and there are some episodes that are weak and some that are very strong, but very strong story element of it is Picard and Riker have to kind of commandeer Riker's old ship, the USS Titan. And Riker's old ship has got a cantankerous fucking captain on it who takes zero shit from Picard and Riker. Right. And he's played by, Todd Stashwick.

Dave:

Oh, okay.

Matthew:

And he is bloody brilliant. He's he's a really good character. His character is about the best thing in,

Dave:

in the show.

Matthew:

Picard 3. I would almost say, Dave, knowing how much you dislike Picard 1 and 2, it's worth watching series 3 for Todd Stashwick.

Dave:

Okay. Yeah. I'm I'm tempted to watch 3 because I know it's a bit of a nostalgia fest. And I I quite I quite enjoy a bit of nostalgia. So I'll probably enjoy it more than the first two seasons just for that reason alone.

Matthew:

Yeah. I think, then, episode 2 is a bit crap, I seem to remember. And for me, there was too much bloody fan service in the end and the nostalgia bit at the end. Yeah. But if you enjoy that sort of thing well, even I I gotta say, there are some things I like to see even though I was pissed off with seeing them.

Matthew:

So if you're up for nostalgia, then it's worth watching series 3. But the thing that makes it really worth watching series 3

Matthew:

Is the story arc for Stashwick's character.

Dave:

Okay.

Matthew:

Brilliant. Cool. Absolutely brilliant.

Dave:

So why why is he now creating, role playing, fantasy system agnostic source books?

Matthew:

Oh, I guess because like you and I, Dave is a bit of a nerd.

Dave:

Get him lucky.

Matthew:

To also acts. Yeah. Yeah. I I haven't actually listened to the band of Badger's interview with him. But if you want to find those answers out, I suggest you do that.

Dave:

Yeah. Indeed.

Matthew:

Or we both do that when we can find some time. Mhmm. Anyway, so shout out to Todd Stashwick for being brilliant. He is our age. He's a year younger than me.

Matthew:

Born 16th October 19 68, just to to tell you. So he's very much our generation, and that's why he writes, games and shit.

Dave:

Yeah. Cool. Cool. Well, well, dark dark dark age of theory is coming to Kickstarter in in 2 days as a Mhmm.

Dave:

from the day of recording. So that is going to be the 25th, I think. 25th of June it will launch. So, Yeah. If you're interested in that, go and have a look.

Dave:

And, Yeah. And also have a look at go on to the band of Badgers YouTube and have a have a watch of their interview with him and, and, you know, that'll that'll probably tell you everything you need to know before you back it. Yeah.

Matthew:

The next thing actually isn't new, Kickstarter. It came out, I think, while we were at UK Games Expo. So it's almost finished. It's finishing later on this week, I think on 27th. But that is Hollows from Rowan, Rook and Deckard.

Matthew:

Now, this is unlike a lot of their output which is often very tends more towards story than tactics. This is them saying, hey, we can do tactics too. And it's a tactics heavy combat orientated game system and setting. Did you get a chance to talk with Maz, or anybody from Roadmap and Deckard at UK Games Expo?

Dave:

Not a good chance. I did have a brief chat, with them on on the last day. But other than and other than just saying how's Hollows going? And then, like, oh, it's been really hard work, but it's it's coming along really well. I didn't really get a chance to get into it in any greater detail than that because it was they they had their new little stall, their new little stand set up, which was, a bit more open plan, but still quite small and compact and bijou.

Dave:

And it was all every time I went past it, it was always really busy. So it was, yeah, disappointed to not get a chance to have a chat, a bit more of a chat with the the Roman record decard folks. But, Yeah. They're obviously very excited and very pleased with what they were doing with Hollows. But I say other other than I haven't had a chance to to look into it or or even sort of give it a playtest or a go.

Dave:

So, I mean, it's interesting. I mean, they're they're they're they're they're presenting it as kind of this is how you should do boss fights. This is how, you know, your tactical fights. This is this is the next generation of of tactical combat. I don't know anything about it to know what they're basing that on, but I don't know if you do.

Matthew:

No. Some of our patrons though did a, one of our patrons was play testing it and did a did a session for a bunch of other patrons I wasn't able to join in on. Mhmm. So we should ask them, actually. Sure.

Matthew:

But I do remember there's a your character sheet is a bit like a sort of dashboard for, for a fighter plane.

Matthew:

best way of describing it. There's dials and shit on there. And, Yeah. Yeah. That's all I'm saying at the moment because I know that little about it.

Matthew:

But they enjoyed it. I seem to remember. They enjoyed it very much.

Dave:

Cool. I mean, you know, they Maz and, and Grant and the team do make good stuff. So, you know, there is a there is a strong pedigree here.

Matthew:

So

Dave:

I I suspect it's gonna be pretty good.

Matthew:

Yes. So back that, and it's the last few days for your chance of backing it. There will be a link, of course, in the show notes. And then, moving on to the 3rd and final, KS for today. I wasn't gonna do any more Mork Borg Kickstarters for a while, but this one charmed me.

Matthew:

This is Annie Mort. Mort not mork. Using the Morteborg rules, you are characters in a black and white early, early 20th century cartoon. Think think Steamboat Willie.

Dave:

Steamboat Willie. Yeah.

Matthew:

Mortimer Mouse and and and stuff like that. And, yeah. You as as as cartoon characters, you can't possibly die, but you can take a lot of damage. And that it just charmed me. So I'll put a link into the show notes as well.

Dave:

Yeah. Again, it's I mean, it was it was interesting having, Steve Jackson, you know, come along to the seminar. Got me, like, reminiscing over the games that we used to play from back in the day. And one of them Toon? Was was tune.

Dave:

Yeah. Exactly. And I really we didn't play it a lot, but I remember we played it a bit and I really enjoyed it. And this obviously has a a tune, but with teeth perhaps.

Matthew:

Yeah.

Dave:

Kind of kind of feel to it.

Matthew:

That's what tempted me to it too. I might even back it and have another game to see if it can recreate or even do that tune charm better. Because tune, being a little bit old school simply because, you know, it was the eighties, and all games are old school in the eighties. Early eighties, I'd point out as well. It's a little bit of a clunky rule set, for the madcap action of of cartoons.

Matthew:

And I actually wonder whether Mork Borg might be a better fit for that sort of stuff. So

Dave:

Possibly. Yeah.

Matthew:

So yeah. Yeah. Cool.

Dave:

Well, there's again, at time of recording, there are 8 days left to go, which is is going to be next weekend. So beginning of July or 30th June maybe might be the last day. But they've they've got their they've got their goal comfortably. They've they've smashed through that. But, yeah.

Dave:

You've got a week if you're interested in in backing Animort.

Matthew:

Excellent. Excellent. I have to say, Dave, I just wanna pause at this moment here to say, you are a lot less surprised than, you've been accused of being in the past.

Dave:

I'm working on it.

Matthew:

You're quite well informed about all these Kickstarters. Even when I just write a word animort in in the script, you've you've gone and looked it up and everything.

Dave:

Yeah. Well, yeah. Well, clearly, I've I've been going through therapy since the dark days of of being surprised and. You know, the therapy is working, so I'm less surprised, and I go for far less frequently than I used to. But yes.

Dave:

So, yeah, I did I just I I did just look up Animort just just just before we started talking about it. So, yeah. I'm trying to learn from you to to bluff it. Make it look like I know what the fuck I'm talking about when actually I've got no clue really.

Matthew:

Excellent. That that sorted me out through my entire career that has. Finally, here's the thing that actually I do know very little about. You're going to Tabletop Scotland without me, Dave.

Dave:

Well, I am. But you were invited, but you said, god no. Yeah. Yeah. But.

Dave:

Yeah. So we were talking to to Dave, who is the organizer of tabletop Scotland at UK Games Expo, talking about free leagues attendance. And we'd we'd kind of proposed to go this year, but then the free league board for for various reasons decided, not this year. But Dave is very keen, obviously, to try and encourage free league. So we were thinking about it, and this is going to be, tabletop Scotland is gonna be running from the 6th to 8th September, which is gonna be slap bang in the middle of our tales of the old west Kickstarter.

Matthew:

If everything goes according to plan?

Dave:

If everything goes according to plan. There's no good reason why it shouldn't, I think. So I think we're I think we're reasonably comfortable that that period is is is where it should go. Although, like you say, we've gotta nail the final dates down and make the final agreement. But, so in that sense, it's a great opportunity to go with a call to action.

Dave:

I kind of said to Dave, well, you know, I'd be quite tempted to come up and I can have a look around and kinda wreck it for free league. Pardon me. And as and as a result of that, then he's managed to find me a little space for a stall, and we confirmed earlier this week that I'm gonna go. And I'll go and run a few, tales of the old west demos on the little stall if it's not too small. And and just, yeah, and just be there and spread the word and, try and get more people to, you know, to to to to learn of the game and back it, whilst we'll as I said, we'll be probably in the middle of the Kickstarter.

Dave:

It's it's a bit of a logistical nightmare is too strong a word possibly, but it's a long way to go. But it's, it'll be fine, and we'll make all the relevant arrangements.

Matthew:

And so this I think it'll be an interesting thing to see what you learn about that because I think that's one of the things that puts off freely from going. Obviously, it's a long way from Sweden, but it's a long way for them to pay us to take a bunch of games and sell them.

Dave:

And we

Matthew:

don't have the retail network in when when we're when we're running their stand at the London conventions, we're actually effectively a branch of GamesQuest doing that because we use GamesQuest's,

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Systems.

Dave:

Stock and

Matthew:

account and stuff like that. Yeah. And GamesQuests don't do Tabletop Scotland, so we'd have to think about a way of being able to sell stuff up there. And that's one of the things I I think that puts, 3 d goth. But yeah.

Matthew:

Yeah. This resume may show us a way forward.

Dave:

I mean yeah. I mean, it'll really be about how busy, how lively does the place feel. Do I get a lot of people talking to me about free league stuff? You know, that kind of thing. The yeah.

Dave:

The the logistics, like, will inevitably make going to Tabletop Scotland more expensive for free league than otherwise, considering the size of the convention. And it's bit it's getting bigger. So they're now this I think this is the 1st year they're gonna be holding it in, a convention center in Edinburgh. I can't remember the name of it. It's the Royal something center right near the airport.

Dave:

So it's actually pretty well placed. And it's obviously getting bigger, and there's space for it to expand there. So it's on the right trajectory. As a convention, it's getting more and more support. But, yeah, the logistics make it make it a bit of a ball ache, but, I'll give it a go.

Dave:

See how it is. It's a great opportunity to promote tales of the old west at a moment when it'll need promoting. So, yeah. Be interesting. But if you're going to tabletop Scotland, look out for me.

Dave:

I'll be on the effect publishing stand. Obviously, we're not going as as as free league. So, yeah, there will be an effect publishing stand. Come along and have a chat. Play some tales of the old west.

Dave:

Spread the word, and have some fun. Yeah. So it should be good.

Matthew:

Cool. And that's a lovely segue, Dave, into our next item, which is Old West News.

Dave:

Old West News.

Matthew:

Now, funny enough, I'm I have right in front of me a banner design which I am putting together for your trip Yes. To, to Tabletop Scotland. And it has a lovely new piece of art work on it

Dave:

It does.

Matthew:

That nobody, except some of our patrons, have, have seen. Oh, and obviously, you and I have seen it and the artist.

Dave:

Indeed. And it looks lovely. It's it's really nicely done. Done in the Struzan style, if you're aware of what that is. Think of all the old Star Wars style posters where you've got a a collection of images kind of up the middle of the image of the picture with a Yeah.

Dave:

Like a vista behind. And it's it's very evocative. It's very powerful. It's it's it's really well done. You know, Thomas, our artist has done a great bit of work on this.

Dave:

Yeah. It looks lovely.

Matthew:

And it will be the cover for the hardback version of Tales of the Old West.

Dave:

It will be. It is.

Matthew:

It is. Well, it isn't yet because there isn't a hardback version, but it will be when we apply it. Yes. And it is. You're right.

Matthew:

It's, so it's a it's, you know, it's all those portraits are varying different sizes and a little bit of action scene at the bottom. And obviously, it will have when it's on the cover, it'll have the logo on and stuff like that. But it's it's great.

Dave:

It does look really lovely. Yeah.

Matthew:

And round the back, the act the action scene at the bottom sort of goes on around the back. The portraits don't. Yeah. But they leave a lovely big sky for us to write, you know, blurb on on Yeah. On the back of the book.

Matthew:

And I love the we we agonized a bit over coloring. Thomas, the artist, gave us 2 different coloring options. And we've gone for the slightly more naturalistic one, which I think will make it stand out compared to lots of other more, shall we say, cartoony books?

Dave:

Yeah. I think very much so. I I think it's it's important for us for the artwork to reflect the kind of tenor and the the philosophy of the game. And all the other stuff you see, I'm not sure I've seen anything kind of wild west gamey that goes for a more serious tone in its artwork. It's always something like you say, it's very bright, very colourful.

Dave:

You you know, often very, very well drawn by talented artists. But very very much that kind of dime novel action excitement moment, which looks great, but it doesn't fit the the the

Matthew:

What we're what we're doing.

Dave:

The sense of of tales of the old west. No. Exactly. And this does. And like you say, I think this will make it stand out a bit more as I mean, I don't wanna say it's a more serious work, but I think we are we are playing into some of the more serious maybe serious is the wrong word.

Dave:

But some of the themes that don't necessarily get played into with a lot of wild west games when it is about walking into the saloon with your spurs jangling and shooting the bad guy, and not much else. And that's fun. Who doesn't love a good gunfight at dawn? You know, we all do.

Matthew:

No. I mean, funny enough, actually, obviously, we're putting Tales of the Old West, play tests on the, on the actual play feed at the moment. And the episode I edited last, which came out, 2 days ago on the time of recording, is the moment where I, as a player, realize that my nascent romantic relationship, may have a different father to to the one that we thought she was born of, shall we say.

Matthew:

And, you know, this is this whole adventure actually is so much not walking into the saloon with your with your spurs jangling. Yeah. It's a very different feel to that, and very enjoyable apart from your brother trying to eat Pringles quietly, which is still an editing headache.

Dave:

Which we've talked about. And like you say, we will need to be more disciplined when we're recording sales of the old west actual play games.

Matthew:

Yeah. We did we did try

Dave:

to be disciplined, but, obviously, we're not very disciplined kind of people.

Matthew:

Yeah. The reason that discipline broke down in the last couple of adventures.

Dave:

Yeah.

Matthew:

But, but, yeah, apart from that, it it's it's fine. Anyway. Yeah. Sorry. That's it.

Matthew:

So, yeah, that's a very different feel is what I'm trying to

Matthew:

And Just

Dave:

tell just trying to tell a very some very different stories. Stories that are are definitely very western and are are, you know, embedded in that kind of western culture and history. But like you say, it's not just about settling up your posse and chasing a bad guy across the hills. It's, it's a bit deeper than that. There's more to it than that.

Dave:

You can do that as well, of course, but there's more to it than that.

Matthew:

I thought I might share this artwork on our social media. And we've also, of course, had some lovely reviews of the quick start that came out a few weeks ago. 4 weeks ago, I think precisely at the point of us talking. Yeah. So, I thought I might put some words reviews in the space where the blurb would go on the back of this.

Matthew:

And That

Dave:

sounds like a great idea.

Matthew:

Artwork to share on the socials. Yeah. So, so you will see this art. If you're listening, you will see this art very shortly. Yeah.

Matthew:

And we also had some interior art done as well. We we've got another, chapter colour chapter spread. Yep. This this for our introductory chapter, welcome to the Old West. And that is looking lovely as well.

Dave:

Indeed. Yeah.

Matthew:

So that's all going well.

Dave:

So we're we're getting there. We're getting there.

Matthew:

I'm I'm sure I added some extra items to this old world news, and for some reason, they haven't stuck. Can you remember

Dave:

what they were, Dave? Yeah. So the other thing is, obviously, we're now trying to kind of pick up on the momentum we gained at UK Games Expo and and and keep Tellers of the Old West in people's minds. We're planning a number of podcast interviews and, YouTube interviews and and actual plays. And I've been writing new, what I've called actual play short tales, specifically for these actual play sessions that we're gonna run over the next couple of months.

Dave:

And I finished the first one called biting the dust in Albuquerque. That's all ready to go. I created characters all based on the life path system, which is great fun.

Matthew:

Mhmm.

Dave:

And they all work together really well. So that's that's cool. And, yes. I'm gonna do some more of those as well. So so if you wanted to watch some of these APs, don't worry.

Dave:

You're not gonna be watching an AP of the same story each time. My whole idea behind this is so that we get different stories out there. So if you wanna watch more than 1 AP, you can, because it'll be a story you won't have seen before. So that's kind of what I've been doing. I finished the first one, And, yeah, somebody asked the other day whether, you know, oh, well, you're gonna put these in the book or or publish these.

Dave:

So there's no immediate plan to do that, But if they, you know, if they do well and people like them, that might be something we could look at down the line as a PDF or something.

Matthew:

Mhmm. Maybe it could be a stretch goal for our massively successful Kickstarter company.

Dave:

It could possibly be a stretch goal. Yeah. I've I've sort of noted it as an option. Obviously, depending on how we produce it, it might mean more artwork and things, but let's see how we go.

Matthew:

Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Cool. So that's there.

Matthew:

I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure there was another item.

Dave:

only other thing the only other thing but, I mean, it's it's it's probably not, you know, we don't need to mention it, but might as well now. So a week tomorrow, you and I are going to, I can't remember the name of it now. It's a but it's a it's a recreation wild west town that we've arranged to go and have for for the afternoon, down in Hampshire, and we're gonna go and record some more promotional videos. But in the setting of this, wild west town, which sounds like it's gonna be a lot of fun. Looking forward to that.

Dave:

And hopefully, we can do a better job with

Matthew:

Remembering our script.

Dave:

Our delivery of the videos than we did last time.

Matthew:

We did last time.

Dave:

We might change the approach slightly and allow us a bit more free form, you know, a free form approach to those videos. And,

Matthew:

but yes. So sort of banter that you get here on this show.

Dave:

That that kind of

Matthew:

Which isn't necessarily better.

Dave:

Comedy gold. Like, I understand. Yeah. But that's yeah. So that's hopefully, we'll get all those in the cam, like, in 8 days time.

Dave:

And then we've got a schedule for when we might wanna put those out so people can learn. Each one will be about, you know, a specific aspect of the game. Just, you know, 4 or 5, 6 minutes long at the most. Just so people can get a little bit more of a hint of what's going on and what's in the game and hopefully wet everyone's appetites.

Matthew:

Yeah. Yes. So watch out for those, and watch out for our newsletter. And if you haven't signed up for our newsletter, come to the, our website at www.effectpublishing, all one word with a k in effect .com. And sign up for our newsletter there.

Matthew:

And you will be the first to hear this news not having to wait until we say some of the same things again on the show.

Dave:

Yeah. And all but also we've also we also have a Facebook page now. So come and find us on the, Tales of the Old West RPG fan group. So, come along and, yeah. Come and join us.

Dave:

There's a we've got a we've got about 60 something people on there at the moment, which is really good. But, yeah, the more the merrier. So come along and join us on Facebook.

Matthew:

And that's a great place to actually discuss it. Ask questions

Dave:

Absolutely. Make

Matthew:

suggestions, all that sort of stuff, which our patrons, of course, have been able to do for some time. But this this lets everybody join in. Yeah. And, we are there and answering those questions or sharing some bits of research or stuff that we've just looked at.

Dave:

Yeah. Indeed.

Matthew:

I love the story. The story of, Isaw Dart.

Dave:

Yes.

Matthew:

Who's a black cowboy.

Dave:

Yeah.

Matthew:

I I love his story because it sounds just like a player character.

Dave:

Yeah. Yeah.

Matthew:

You know, the ups and downs of a player character. He's brilliant. He's brilliant. And that sort of on on the edge of being a respectable citizen and also a criminal. Really good.

Matthew:

Really good. Funny. I love his story when I read it. So yeah. Oh, the other thing just briefly to say, I have had the proof back for a print on demand version of the quick start rules.

Matthew:

Okay. And it's showing me we need to have a few I need to get back into the file and do a few typos.

Dave:

Right. Okay. Yeah.

Matthew:

But, when I've done that, there will be a print on demand version available too. That will be not free, of course.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Yeah.

Matthew:

Or it will not be free, I think, is the way

Dave:

to say

Matthew:

those words.

Dave:

I think we understood what it meant.

Matthew:

But it does look lovely. And actually, weirdly, there's a thing, you know, I think people don't value PDFs, because I think I don't value PDFs because they're just bits. And I'm likely to undervalue our own work when we put it on PDF even if we were charging for this. But having this in my hands as a perfect bound little book, you know, and frankly, a bigger book than a lot of the RPGs that we started playing with in the early eighties days.

Dave:

Yeah. Yeah.

Matthew:

Makes me realize, we should be charging more for it. But, but there we go. Anyway, shall we move on to our main item for the day? Because as I said, we've got most of an hour already in this interview, and here we are 50 minutes later getting into it.

Dave:

I know.

Matthew:

Yeah. Today, we've got an old friend of the show in the hamam. We've got Andrew Gasker, Dave's collaborator on all things alien. And, well, it's been a couple of years since we, last spoke with you, Andrew. How have you been?

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Busy. Busy. The the success of Alien has led to me working on a ton of other projects, and, I've been I'm I'm been very happy to work as much in the RPG community as I have. Yeah. Alien basically led to me working on the Terminator game, and now there's a t two supplement that, that was successful at Kickstarter for last year, and

Matthew:

that's Yeah.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Yeah. That's coming, that I think it's still shipping to the United States in the next month. It they just fulfilled, England and Europe, I believe. Maybe slightly off on that date, but yeah. So that's coming soon.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

The, I worked on the t two one as well as the t one. The, I did 2 choose your own adventure graphic novels.

Matthew:

Oh, hey. Yeah.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Yeah. It's the first time choose your own adventure was in graphic novel format. It's always novels. So

Matthew:

So this is the official choose your own adventure line from Scholastic, which is a big hit. Yeah. Mostly in the States. We got a few copies over here in in the UK, but, obviously, we had fighting fantasy. We was our big choose your own adventure style thing here.

Matthew:

But, yeah, I'm I'm aware of choose your own adventure. This is the first time it's been done in graphic novel format.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Yeah. Yeah. It it it's strange when you think about it. There's no one ever thought to do that in comic format before. So,

Matthew:

Like, Jen, here in the UK, 2000 AD did did some did a supplement called dice man, which was a choose your own adventure style thing in comic format, but relatively small and unknown.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Oh, no. I mean I mean, actual choose your own adventure. Yeah.

Matthew:

Yeah. The proper license one. Yeah.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Yeah. Cool. No. I'm sure people have done I'm sure you can't speak in the ether that no one's ever done anything like that before, but the actual brand had never done it before is what I'm saying.

Matthew:

Yeah. I see what you mean. Yeah. Absolutely. And funny enough, I was playing, you know, that alien rip off board game.

Matthew:

What's it called? Nemesis.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

That's a good name.

Matthew:

They've got an expand yeah. It's a great game. Dave loves it. Oh, I should say to our listeners, just in case we haven't introduced this properly beforehand, Dave isn't in on this interview. He really wanted to be here talking to Andrew, but he's feeling a bit poorly today.

Matthew:

So, so Dave sends his love, Andrew. And I know and, of course, the thing he would say, which I've totally forgotten is, welcome to the show.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Thank you. It's an honor to be here.

Matthew:

So, he he there he is, whispering in my shoulder. I over my shoulder. I can hear him now. So, what was I gonna ask? Yeah.

Matthew:

So Dave loves nemesis, and I played the nemesis game recently, which had kind of, comic cut scenes with a bit of a choose your own adventure thing. So

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Oh, interesting. You

Matthew:

know, points of the game, we we all have to make a decision as a crew, and then that advance the story in one way or the other, which I thought was an interesting merging of board game and choose your own adventure. Very simplistic, but, but great fun, actually. I loved it. I loved it. I played a, you know, the the boss of the company.

Matthew:

And,

Andrew E.C Gaska:

I'm very much I'm very much into interactive fiction. I I I really like the idea of allowing, readers or players to feel like they're contributing to their franchise or that they're making the choices. And, that's what actually led to something that happened with Alien in the past couple of years. I wanted to coordinate between all the licensors, so that we were building off of each other's work and building a coherent alien universe.

Matthew:

Yeah.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

So for I consulted on Aliens, Fireteam Elite, the video game.

Matthew:

Mhmm.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

And, basically, the the history I built with them because they had some strange ideas of what they wanted to do. They were really awesome, but does not fit where it was yet unless we had some changes going on in the environment in our time period, which is 20 years prior to this. And the we work together with it, and it it worked out really well. Like, there's actually a point in the game where someone says, 20 years ago, a general tried to take care to to to take control on the with on the frontier with this thing called the Frontier or blah blah blah blah. And that's probably the same thing was in the quantum worry book that we worked on.

Matthew:

Oh, that lovely. It's lovely having that that mind your mind there across all those things, making those connections, isn't it?

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Yeah. And and I I will tell you, I worked in video games prior to this in a, advertising type. I've been working on Photoshop stuff and things that went out for for, public consumption. And in all that time, never once did I have my name in the credits of a video game. I can spoke a little bit for a fire team elite and my name they I'm I'm in there.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

So I was like, alright. Thank you.

Matthew:

That's a great feeling. That's a great view. That must feel as good as it did when when David and I first got our names in the alien call book for Yeah. For that. Definitely, that was

Dave:

a real That

Andrew E.C Gaska:

was great for me. That was that was great to have my name and to see my name in the core book as well. You know? But that also led to also Titan. And

Matthew:

Yeah. I was gonna ask about that. So Titan released a number of novels. How many was it where you wrote an adventure in the back of the novel?

Andrew E.C Gaska:

It was 3 of them. I I approached Titan about the idea, and then when Titan was onboard, I brought it to Freelee and asked them what they thought. They thought it

Matthew:

was a good

Dave:

idea too.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

So, yeah. So, basically, I would get the earlier drafts of those books and actually, okay, where can I fit an adventure in? Right? And the first one was the aftermath of what happens in the novel. Okay?

Matthew:

Yeah.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

That was colony war. Yeah. And,

Matthew:

Not the greatest of the novels, I have to say.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

No. Well no. And then I'll

Matthew:

try to buy.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

They, yeah. The adventure was called Fallout. It's in the back of the novel.

Matthew:

Yeah.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

It's available if you buy the physical novel and if you buy the novel digitally. It's available both those ways. But, the second one, there's a point in the book where where there's a point in the book where the shit hits the fan on this planet, and the marines have come in, and they're in orbit, and they're sending drop ships down to take care of these this crisis. And they they send them towards the signal they're getting in the novel that they didn't in the novel, you didn't follow what happens there. But while they're on the bridge of the ship, a bunch of other signals start coming in, and they say, we need to send drop ships to all those locations.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

And you're one of the that gets sent to one of the other locations. So, you know, it's it's so people reading that book are like, hey. That's the adventure I played. I I assisted with the alien universe, you know. It it's Yeah.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

So yeah. And then there was a there was a third one, also, where you're on a you're on a you're on a, the the same type of ship that the Sulaco is, and, you wake up to find out that you guys were carrying aliens, and now they're all over the place. So one of the things I was happy about being able to do there was because I also do the cryptography for those games.

Matthew:

Oh, good. Yeah.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Yeah. I basically, I did I did I mean, the finished maps are not done by me in in the in the alien books.

Matthew:

Yeah. I

Andrew E.C Gaska:

but, really, I did detailed maps that then they take and enhance. You know? So Yeah. So the, but on the on the in the novels, there there was less of a budget, so I just did the maps myself. And we finally get to do the map of the interior of what the Sahuaku type ships look like.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

So I I I I wish we had done

Matthew:

first time that's been done. That's never been done in any of the, like, Alien Blueprints books or any of the big The

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Alien Blueprints book is is amazing book, but only does the exterior of the ship and then the interior of the locations you see in the movie. There's no actual cutaway There's nothing

Matthew:

sticking altogether.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Yeah. Yeah. There's no, there are people have done maps for the Sulaco before, but none of them have been official. You know? So, so it was nice to be able to do that, and I'm I'm hoping that somehow that winds up getting, you know, published in a freely book nice with the with all the effects done to it, the green thing and the, you know, you know, all the all the awesome things that the, that they do to the books.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Don't do the maps to make them look like they're in universe. Because mine's just a black and white because it was getting printed in a novel anyway. You know?

Matthew:

Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

So, yeah. So a bunch of interactive fiction like that. I did 2 other alien box sets and the building better world. Steve and I worked on that together for a for a long time, and luckily that won 2 UKGE Awards. So we were both very happy about that.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Yeah. So a lot of alien stuff, and then I went down to Carbon Gray, at this company called Magnetic Press Play. I've known the publisher, Mike Kennedy, for a very long time. He published actually my first book, which was conspiracy with the pile of the apes, and back when he was with. Mhmm.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

So we collaborated on this to see if we can start so Magnetic Press has been around for 10 years, and they did, they bring graphic novels from Europe over to United States, translate them for the first time. Really beautiful editions, really attention paid to making sure that these these books honor the stories that are in them. And Yeah. We said, alright. Let's see if we can bring this attention to RPGs.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

And so, there was a a license, from a comic book called Carbon Gray and Mike who the creator. And so we talked with them about basically making this into a role playing thing. And we did a core book and this awesome box set that had minis and maps, and I worked out a system for, because it's set it's set now it's like a, oh my gosh. What's the word? It's not

Matthew:

it's not Dieselpunk, are we looking for?

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Oh, fuck. That's it. Thank you. I thought it's not something else. It's Dieselpunk.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Thank you. Yeah. It's a Dieselpunk universe set in in a fictional world over 1. So trench warfare and and all that type of stuff. So with the we we had a trench map, which is mostly just a mud field.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

It had a single trench in it. And I basically worked out a way to do terrain pieces we could put down, cardboard terrain pieces that if you interlock them in different ways, you can make different trenches that could go across the whole map. And we did counters in addition to the minis. And it was just we did all this stuff and we put it on Kickstarter, and and it was it was successful. It it, for a for a unknown relatively unknown property, definitely unknown in the RPG world and unknown an unknown RPG company because Magnetic was doing their first one.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Yeah. A $140, which we thought was was pretty good.

Matthew:

And That's not bad, isn't it?

Andrew E.C Gaska:

So we thought we thought, okay. We we can do this with with bigger licenses. We can, you know, move on to something, and that

Matthew:

Which brings us so I wanna I wanna ask about Magnetic Press's Kickstarter success. But maybe before we get there, we should talk about the current magnetic press game and the big project you're working on, which is the planet and the and the reason why we invited you here anyway, the planet of the apes role playing game. Now, this is the first official planet of the apes RPG, and I note it's the original 5 films from, back in the seventies, I'm guessing. I don't I can't remember. They've they've been with me my whole life, and I've been around since the early sixties.

Matthew:

So, so I guess seventies. And and the that so and the novels related to that and the TV show and Rodney McMullen and all that sort of stuff. So of the so that's none of the new stuff. Right? That that Yeah.

Matthew:

The the current Planet of the Apes franchise separate.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

They despite some confusion, they are considered they they're separate because Yeah. Gotcha. Things that happen in the new movies contradict a bunch of stuff from the from the sequels, the original stuff. But it was like the sequels the funny thing is is that except for the second one, the sequels were actually prequels to Yes. Yeah.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Of the original stuff. You know? So

Matthew:

yeah. Exactly. So So,

Andrew E.C Gaska:

different iterations. Yes.

Matthew:

If people if people have got Andy Serkis in mind, put Andy Serkis out of your mind now. Think Wodney McDowell and, doctor Zayas and all of that sort of stuff. And what I've got to ask you though is, how did this material inspire you when you're starting to think about, let's put an RPG together out of this?

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Well, I mean, it started it started when I was a a kid, and, my mother wanted me to watch Planet of the Apes when it when it showed up on TV. And I sat there with her, and and I watched it. And I I was like, monkeys on horses with guns. This is the best thing ever. Yeah.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

I think

Matthew:

we were probably about the same age then because I that's what I remember.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Yeah. And, basically, I noticed even as a kid, and I was, like, 5, that he was talking about stuff that I had, like, like, I there was, you know, you go to school and the kid that's different is being picked on and stuff like that. And you could tell that they're talking about kind of issues, especially since before that, and I was already watching Star Trek with my dad all the time, because my dad loved the classic Star Trek, and that was on repeats all the time in seventies. So, you know, it's it's I I started to pick up that sci fi had all these important messages and stuff. You know?

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Mhmm. While while it it wasn't until I was older that I I zeroed in on what it was that was affecting me about, you know, Kyle Lee specifically. And it's like it's the same thing that it was with Star Trek. They were talking about issues of and and and humanity's hubris and and the stupid things that we do, and they're they're making this a mirror of of our of what we of our of our mistakes, I guess, is the best way to look at it. And that's really important to me in storytelling.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

You know, even Terminator is really about us relying too much on on on AI and then what's happened, you know, which is very relevant to what's going on right now. You would you would think they could put out a really awesome Terminator movie with what's going on in today's society. You know? But it's it led to the 4:30 okay. So in in in America, we had the 4:30 movie.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Okay? And this was after she come home from school at 3 o'clock, and at 4:30 on on I think it was ABC, but it's a channel set for us. The they would have, for the next week, we we're gonna run all these movies that are related to each other. Okay? And planning a franchise would run on each week, and they would do it a couple times a year, I believe.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

And, they would have the first movie, the second movie, and the 3rd and the 4th. So until I hit college, I thought I did not know there was a 5th movie. So,

Matthew:

Okay. Now remind me, actually, what is the 5th movie?

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Battle. It's it's the weakest I think it's the weakest of them all.

Matthew:

That that may be why I'm I'm I'm forgetting. So I I'm in a bit of a state like you are, but,

Andrew E.C Gaska:

like yeah. Okay. They cut the budget in half each time, and at that point, the budget was 1,500,000. And with all that makeup and everything, it's yeah. So

Matthew:

And then every movie they go, well, we got these masks we had before. We can't cost that much again.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Well, yeah, and you can see that they're deteriorating by that point, you know, because they've been reduced because the the first one was in 68. So Yeah. From 68 to 73 was the was the. So I watched these movies. And between the first and second one, I immediately noticed, woah.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

What what's going on here? Because Cornelius and Zira were engaged in the last one, and now suddenly they're married. And there's like, doctor told them that they were gonna stand trial for heresy at the end of the first one, and then the middle in the beginning of the second one, they're they're he's their best bud. And I I was like, what's going on here? Something happened in between.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

And in my head, I filled in the blanks of a movie that must have come out that I never saw.

Matthew:

Okay? Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

And I was, like, years later, I realized, oh, all that stuff? That's not in any of these movies. I made that up in my head. And that actually is what wound up being translated into a plot in my 2 Planet of the Novels. So,

Matthew:

right That that's an interesting aside. How so so we we all we all make up stories. I mean, that, you know, that that that's what fanfic is. You know? And often, the stories solve the problems between twos with scriptwriters that we as fans feel they don't care enough about the franchise to to explain that thing.

Matthew:

It's up to us fans. We all do that in our heads. How did you get the opportunity to actually turn that into proper published novels?

Andrew E.C Gaska:

So I was working for Rockstar Games. I worked on Grand Theft Auto and Red Dead Redemption and all those games. I worked for them for 17 years. And it was about 2,005, I think. Maybe maybe maybe 2,003.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

I'm not sure. Somewhere in there. And I went to a comic shop, and there was a new Planet of the Apes comic. Yeah. And I was like, oh, I did.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

I was like, oh, who made this? Marvel? DC? And it was somebody called Mister Comics. And I said, who the heck is Mister Comics?

Andrew E.C Gaska:

And if I could

Matthew:

do this,

Andrew E.C Gaska:

I thought, why can't I? You know? I was making good money working in video games. So I hired an entertainment lawyer because I had okay. So with the video game work, originally, it was just me.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

But with success of GTA 3, they wound up giving me all their accounts over at Rockstar. So I had to basically train people to do the work with me. I opened my own studio. So I was like, why my studio is Blanton Ventures. I was like, why can't Blanton Ventures do this?

Andrew E.C Gaska:

You know? So we met with Fox, a then Fox, not a 20th Century Studios. So we met with the studio, and they were they said, well, they they have that license right now, but we'll let you know if, you know, if that changes. And mister Comics had put out really good issues, but they were supposed to collect them to go to trade paperbacks so they could go to bookstores, and they they didn't for whatever reason. And so, the students was like, we're gonna we're gonna take the license away from them.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Are you interested? And I was like, yeah. I'd love to get the economics. That's great. So the person I contacted there said, well, the licensing head is gonna be at Licensing Expo New York.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Meet us there with your lawyer and we'll talk and blah blah blah. So I go and I start pitching the idea, and the licensing head, who I hadn't met yet, was like, woah. Woah. We don't wanna do comics. We just did comics, and it didn't work out the way we wanted to.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

And so I was like, okay. I went to school for comics. I was ready to do comics. I have the opportunity to do something here, and I don't wanna lose it. So I said, well, when I mean say comics, I kinda mean more like like prose tics with painting, sort of like, alien tribes book you guys put out in the nineties.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

And the licensing woman said, aliens, tribes is the favorite project I've ever worked on. You have your license. Okay. Now this would never work in today's world. Okay?

Andrew E.C Gaska:

In today's world, you need to show that your your company you have to need to show 5 years of your financials to get a license. You have to show that you've already been successful and all of a sudden stuff before they they take the risk on using you for something. And it it it's it's it's this would never happen now. But this was way back when, 20 years ago now. And so we got the rights to do, a series of novels.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

The first one was gonna be conspiracy of the plan of the apes, And it tells the story of the astronaut, Landon, who gets separated from Taylor when they're hunted, and we follow Taylor for the rest of the movie until spoiler alert for a movie from 1968, we find out that Landon got lobotomized somewhere. So it tells the story that leads to the lobotomy. So it's definitely a feel good, feel good book. You know, it makes you makes you happy to be alive. No.

Matthew:

Well, until until you're lobotomized.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Yes. And it has it it it has, 40 paintings from top artists in the industry, and then Jim did the cover. He's he he he decided Diana Jones for for Lucas back in the day. He decided everything for, Bram Stoker. It's, Dracula.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Yeah. So so we had Dave Dorman and, Joe Jusko and all these other names are in that book. So, basically, once we decided we're gonna make this a novel, I thought, alright. I'm taking a step back because I don't know how to write novels. And I've never been trained in it, and I know to do comics.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

So I will I will plot the story with my 2 friends who wanna be writers, who have always wanna be novelists, and they will write the novel. K. But I guess, maybe they they either they cracked under the pressure or it was just too much to deal with for what that's going on in their life. I don't know. But they basically pulled out when I was had already put all this money into, you know, getting the license and doing the art.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

So I was like, okay. I guess I gotta train myself to write a novel. And luckily, the resulting book came out pretty good. The second one wound up not happening because we couldn't get a publisher to back us, and I just didn't have the money to put it out to do it all on my own again. Mhmm.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

But then a few years after that, I had a phone call in 2015 because the book came out in 2011. I got a phone call in 2015 from the new, director licensing over, chief franchise director over at, 20 Century Studios, and he said, hey. I've read your novel, and we're working on a Bible. I think you may know some of the stuff better than we do. Do you

Dave:

want to?

Andrew E.C Gaska:

And I was shocked that he actually read the book because, you know, a lot of times it's a rubber stamp thing.

Matthew:

Yeah.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

And especially back then. Now they're now they I'll tell you right now. Now they read through everything with fine tune. But who says no to being a consultant for a a a major studio on a property you love? You know?

Andrew E.C Gaska:

So Yeah. Yes. So I worked on the timeline for them there. It's like an 80 page document that breaks down the timeline to 5 lines of lanes of time. One of the things they say in the 3rd and 5th movie is that time is a highway with an infinite number of lanes.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

If you change your lane, you change your destiny. So that's how I was able to make discrepancies between the movies make sense. Mhmm. The cover in my own novels. The Yeah.

Matthew:

Yeah.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

In the process, Titan gets the license to do new apes novels, and then I went doing a short story for Titan, in in their anthology there and the death of the pilot of the apes novel. So I've been planning the apes on my mind for a very long time here.

Matthew:

Okay. So, coming back to the to the game then

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Yep.

Matthew:

Obviously, your your your passion for planet of the apes, that and that particular flavor of the franchise is deep, and you've got you've got it all there. You've, you've done this with RPGs, with Alien, and with Terminator. But what do you think makes it exceptionally suitable for role playing that that version of the sorry. I'm wording it really badly. What do you think makes that particular version of the Planet of the Apes franchise suitable for role playing and the world a brilliant place where you can set a tabletop role playing game.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

No. I I I I get what you're saying. The the it's it's it's, the world is huge. I mean, it's between between the social political commentary on what's going on with the apes, there's also this weird mutant culture, you know, that that's underground in in the in, the remains of New York. And they have they have they have illusionary abilities, and the forbidden zone is such a great unknown.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

What else is out there? You know? And there's so much to explore, and and we worked it into the game. You can play any of the 3 ape types. Okay?

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Mhmm. But unlike in the movies, you're not locked into only the career path that those types have in the movies. Because they specifically say in the first movie that the, the there was a quota system in place that pretty much had chimpanzees do this, orangutans do that, and girls do that. And they say that that they they they say in that first movie that it the quota system was just abolished. Okay?

Andrew E.C Gaska:

So that means now, for us, the PCs represent the 1st apes who can choose what career they want. You could be a girl soldier if you want, but if you're a chimpanzee and you wanna be a soldier, you can do that too. You know, it's it's it's opening up the world to, a new onset. And, of course, you know, if you're the 1st chimpanzee who's going into the army, you know you're gonna get crap from all the gorilla discussion. You know what I mean?

Andrew E.C Gaska:

So it's it's it's I was like, story potential, you know, character development. It's all here. It's all built in. And that's just if you're playing the apes. Mhmm.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Playing playing a tribal human is another thing you can do. And with tribal humans, they have the I mean, first of all, they don't have a home. They're nomadic. Okay?

Dave:

Yeah.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

2nd of all, they survive by raiding the apes. So you know, or or or or hunting or or any of these other things that are all action oriented things you have to do in order to survive. You know? And so that that's what we're putting opportunities right there for for for people who like like rolling the dice and and and having combat. You know?

Andrew E.C Gaska:

But the biggest challenge they have is that they cannot speak. So if you have a campaign where all the players are tribal humans You can't. You can't speak at the table because they understand each other's facial features and

Matthew:

Yeah.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

You know, gestures and whatnot. But if you are the only player with a tribal human sitting at the table, you are not allowed to speak. You have to convey what you want character to do through pantomime.

Matthew:

I have to say, I played a mute character in, in Simba Room. In in some and we did it for a podcast. And I'm a talkative fellow, and I tell you, I was having a word of a time, but my fellow my fellow players were frustrated with all the hard stares I would give them. But,

Andrew E.C Gaska:

it was

Matthew:

a great laugh. I loved it. I'd I'd definitely be a mute human in if I were playing ballet of the apes right now. That is the character I would choose.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

See that.

Matthew:

Unless everybody if everybody was doing it, then I'd be a gorilla soldier. But but, if I was gonna be the only new human, I'd definitely do that again. At Brilliant. No.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

In in well, what what team was it?

Matthew:

Sorry? In the simba room, that was.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

The simba room. Okay. Yeah. So can could your cat were there capable people of writing or no?

Matthew:

I'm not sure. He was. No. I'd

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Okay.

Matthew:

I would, Yeah. I I made it really hard for them.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

And you'd be perfect.

Matthew:

There were a lot of hard stares.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

You you'd be perfect as a travel human. Absolutely. Because they can't ride either. You know? Yeah.

Matthew:

Hopefully. Yeah.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

So now what you can do is you can learn gestural language. Like like but you have to have someone teach it to you if you're a travel human. So either that's a travel human that knows it already, or you have to have an ape who's befriended you, who's teaching it to you.

Matthew:

Yeah.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

And, eventually, like Nova, who speaks at the end of beneath the planet, so she's brought up Taylor's name, There's a a a system to track until you are able to start to speak words. Ah. K? Yeah. So the longer you play that tribal human, the more you move towards being able to speak.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

And then you are a total threat to the ape society because they don't like that. So Yeah. So, yeah, so they have this progressive track, which is I think is really exciting to play, and, clearly, you do too because you liked it. You liked what you did on the other game.

Matthew:

That.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Then there's the astronauts, which is what you'd expect to play. Okay? And their their issue is they they they they have no resources. Like, if you're an ape, you go out and venturing. It's like, you know, I'm tired.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

I'm gonna go back and stay at the end. You know? I'm gonna go go to the tavern and get a drink. You know? It's like Dungeons and Dragons with with apes almost.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

You know? But if you're an astronaut, you don't have a support system. The the tribal humans look at you like you're nuts. Like, why are you talking? You know, you should you shouldn't do that.

Matthew:

You just oh, weird. Yeah.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

The the the apes want want you dead. You know? So you've gotta rely on on making make either you're on your own completely or you have to rely on trying to bond with a tribe

Matthew:

Yeah. With

Andrew E.C Gaska:

tribal humans, or you have to befriend friendly apes like Cornelius and 0 were in the films. You know? And you have to

Matthew:

So in a way, it's a it's a bit like, you know, a postapocalyptic, zombie movie if you're all playing, astronauts. You're scavengers. You're Yeah. May maybe finding some old tech that you could use, but

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Right.

Matthew:

You you gotta you gotta basically scrabble around in the dirt for everything you you you need except for what you, landed on Earth in the future. Sorry. Spoilers for anybody. Yeah. What what you didn't what you don't bring in your spaceship, you you don't get.

Matthew:

Right. Yeah.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

So you have so you have some high-tech stuff with you when you start. But once that runs out, good luck. I mean, you know, you can have you can have a a pistol with you, but if you don't find the right ammo for that pistol, then you've got whatever is in that clip and that's it. You know? Yeah.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

And, one of the one of the you brought it you exactly brought up something when you said tech. One of the things for the astronauts to do is to try to find remnants of civilization, that may be advanced a little bit further that maybe can like, this was introduced to the TV series originally. Maybe you can read the computer disc that we that we have to find out how we got here and how to get back and things like that. So it's a totally different type of quest right there. So, you know, it it Yeah.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

The type of character you choose to pick, you have all these different options. And and with with with all the expanded material over the years, even aside from my novels, all the comics that have come out, there there's this this is a living, breathing world with all these possibilities. And on top of that, we have the answer source book, which is a source book of all the all 5 films. Okay? So you can play in any of those time periods if you want.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

You don't have to just play in the far future anymore. Okay? I say anymore, meaning that's because that's what the core book was. Right? So you can play during the conquest era when when before when when the shoes on the other foot, the apes are the ones who can't speak.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

You know? Mhmm. They have to learn to speak. You can even play in the era that Taylor's ship was launched in. So you could play

Matthew:

Oh, right.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

You could play astronauts that are in training for a space mission. We've included adventures for that in the book and and test planes for them to try out and stuff. So, I mean, we the way I set it up, you could technically tell your players, hey. I've got this this astronaut game, which deals with the space program in the from America in the sixties seventies. Anybody wanna play?

Andrew E.C Gaska:

And you play with them for a while and then send them on their mission, and then, boom, you put them on the pile of the apes. You know? It it it's it's there's a lot to do is my point.

Matthew:

Yeah. I can see. And that so that source book yeah. I'm I'm looking at it on Kickstarter now. That's 3 more than 300 pages of alternate settings and and, timelines that you could you could get involved in.

Matthew:

Brilliant.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Yep. Yep.

Matthew:

Well, okay. You convinced me. I mean, you actually could so, actually, one other question on that one briefly. Yep. Is it possible to play a party that is 1 ape from ape society, 1 mute human, 1 astronaut, and and and can they have an adventure together?

Matthew:

Or We

Andrew E.C Gaska:

or what adventure

Matthew:

they'll be having?

Andrew E.C Gaska:

First of all, it's really difficult to make that to to find a reasonable way reason why that would start. Okay?

Matthew:

Yeah.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

And second, we did that. The adventure that's in the Forbidden Zone box set starts

Matthew:

Right.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

In a way where you are all forced together and have to decide if you're gonna work together or against each other. And that that adventure, by the end, that adventure leads into a campaign outline that's in the rest of the book. Brilliant. That's the forbidden

Matthew:

You've answered that question.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Yep.

Matthew:

Right. Okay. So, now this is using the what I wanna call I'm gonna call for a moment the West End Games d 6 system. Yes. Now I know that you've already revised the original d six system for, carbon gray.

Matthew:

So this is now, if you like, a a magnetic press variant of the d six system. Why do you think it works for this very different setting?

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Basically, be because the the versatility of the original West End Games d 6 system. You know, it's it it it it provides a really simple to learn core system and is modular enough where we can add rules specific to each genre to it. Like, you know, it's it's the changes we made with the d six m v, that's what we're calling the variant version, is all stuff that just says, hey. We love everything about the classic, but this thing feels a little bit like it was in the nineties, because it was, and needs a little bit of an update for modern audiences. Little less counting, a little less having to figure out things and slowing down combat.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

That's the type of things we have to do to do. Plus, one of the things that, anyone who played the Star Wars game will notice is that it's like some of the attributes have, like, 32 skills listed under it, and the next one only has 6. So we we Yeah. All that will be down to 6 skills for each tribute to to to keep that 6 the world of 6 going And to keep it so that it would be much simpler than trying to figure out, do I know how to basket weave? You know, it's it's well, that would be covered by this skill instead.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

You know? So we were able to plug in a bunch of new world specific, like like, what I was talking about with the keeping track of, you know, learning learning your gestural language and then being able to speak. And and also we added fear and madness rules because, not you know, Taylor's famous line, it's a madhouse. It's a madhouse. He's clearly losing it at the end of the movie when he realizes his Statue of Liberty, that he's been on earth the whole time.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

That could have a huge effect on somebody who had, you know, no idea. So Yeah. Even even in the second movie, James Franciscus said in interviews that he was playing Brent, the main character in the second movie, as if he was a man on Hinge who was losing his mind over the situation. And then when I first saw it, I just saw Action Hero. You know?

Andrew E.C Gaska:

But if you watch the nuances of his performance, you can see the the the the facial tick or the the the crazy in one eye type thing that's going on with him. Yeah. So, you know, so it just made perfect sense for this. So yeah. So it's it's it's a great modular system, and we we have a lot planned even beyond Planet of the Apes that are coming out using this as a base, but each one of the games has its own set of these are the rules that make this this property.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

You know?

Matthew:

That make Right. But is it, you talked about things like the madness system. You talked about learning learning to speak if you're a mute human. What's your favorite addition, that's new and unique, that's a new and that's a new and unique rule that you've added to the West End magnetic variant or planet of the apes?

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Basic see. Okay. That's interesting. So if if we're so that I can answer this question in 2 different ways. Okay.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Okay. 1st, I will talk to you about my favorite role that we've just added in Planet of the Apes, which is gonna be moving forward. Okay? And then I'll give you a specific from Planet of the Apes. Okay?

Andrew E.C Gaska:

We created these environmental packages, which basically if you're in a desert, make sure your core book is turned open to this page. Here's everything you need to know about the desert. It's just gonna help you about everything with this. Don't worry about flipping around the bookcase you've got some stuff. Okay?

Andrew E.C Gaska:

It it it's it there's environments that you could just easily throw your your players into. And you you if anything, you have to flip if if this environment has radiation, you have to flip the radiation environment. But that's about it. You know what I'm saying? Because it Mhmm.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

You're in a desert with radiation. So that's 2 environments. That's can't do anything about that. Can't have it all on the same page. But it's it's, it it it it makes ease of play for the GM instead of having, well, I'm in a desert, so I need the heat, and I need, I need what happens if there's a sandstorm?

Matthew:

So

Andrew E.C Gaska:

You know? So I gotta flip, flip, flip, flip, flip. No. No. Boom.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

This is what a desert is. This is what this is. And, you know, we're we're expanding that, but the, the box set already has additional, environments added to it. And, as the line goes, we won't be adding more. And and it helps to vary play because, you know, everybody thinks, oh, plane needs, forbidden zone.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Does it doesn't? That's it. Well, there's a lot of environments that could be in that area. You know? So it it it, yeah, I'm really happy with these environment rules that we've come up with.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

But, for planning specifically, I I would have to say, I I'm really fond of the whole the track the tribal human track that we spoke for already.

Matthew:

Pretty yeah. They're they're the best. I can tell you. They're the characters I choose. So,

Andrew E.C Gaska:

And because everybody everybody I talked to at first were they're like, well, how are you gonna play that? There's there's no way to be done. Alright. Hold my beer. You know?

Andrew E.C Gaska:

So yeah. We

Matthew:

might have to do an actual play of this just so I can

Andrew E.C Gaska:

I would love I would love you guys to do an actual play? That would be amazing for us.

Matthew:

Well, we'll have a bit of a thing. We're we're we're we're we're pushing those of the old west quite heavily. So, schedule the if I can if we can, I'll try and persuade them to do a natural play. And in fact, I noticed I'm running out of time. So briefly, in fact, I think you you've really filled out, even the questions I had planned to ask about Planet of the Apes, and what excites you and all of that sort of stuff.

Matthew:

So I'm gonna just cut to the end here, and I'm gonna ask you, you're having a very successful Kickstarter. I can see at the time of recording this interview, we are looking at over a 1000 backers. Over 1100 backers. We're looking at what is that? That's like more than 10 times your original goal, which in sterling let me let me have a look in dollars in a way you'd understand it.

Matthew:

So, yeah, you you you want you were looking for $15,000. You've got almost 200,000 now, a 192,000. Yep. So this is good, and you still got most of the month to go. So, obviously, this is a hit.

Matthew:

People want it. But what do you think? We're we're about to do a Kickstarter for Tales of the Old West. What do you think are the 3 most important things from your experience doing this and carbon gray that, you'd you'd have me and Dave consider as we're going into a Kickstarter for Tel Aviv on West. And I'm writing this down.

Matthew:

Backer kit advertising. Sorry. Advertising.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Backer kit advertising.

Matthew:

Backer kit advertising. Right.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

They know how to reach the audience that you're looking for. That that's in carbon gray, we were halfway through the campaign, and it stalled terribly. In fact, it wasn't even halfway. It was, like, after the 1st week. I think we were up to $50,000 on that.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

And Mhmm. That we activated that that back to get, advertising, and that's Skyrocketed us too. I've been told that no one's ever seen a Kickstarter work that way before. Okay? It went like this, and then it was like this, and then steady climb.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

It's like

Matthew:

No. Normally, it's a big peak

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Yep.

Matthew:

Then flat, and then a little peak again at the end, pretty much.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

And and and we we we define what everybody was gonna say because we activated those ads when we did. We would have done better, I think, if we hadn't from the beginning. We would have been more like the the high the high and then and then a little bit. But, but I I really recommend that to Cadence. They're great.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Something we definitely, you know, need more of on our end, which I recommend for you to do too, is is those, live play sessions. Yeah. And and the the interviews and and getting the people on the boards talking about it. That's that's something we're focusing on now.

Matthew:

Getting word out there. Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Yeah. Because because we reached a ton of people through the ads, but now we need to reach people through community ads.

Matthew:

Wordabout. Exactly. Yeah. No. I I think you're right on that one.

Matthew:

I hopefully, we're we're already building a plan for that. But I'm taking on board that useful hint about packet kit advertising.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Yep.

Matthew:

So I will look into that before we launch. Well, Andrew, it's been brilliant. I'm sorry I've run out of time. I I've probably got a bunch more questions I should ask you. We'll maybe we'll get a time when Dave's back and we can do this again or, yeah, we can talk about natural play or something like that if we can.

Matthew:

Whether whether we're gonna fit that in before the end of your campaign, I don't know, but maybe he's got 26 days to go. I'll have a word with Dave. It's brilliant having you in the hammam again. Thanks so much for coming to join us, and, and goodbye.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

Thank you.

Dave:

So, yeah, real real really sorry that I wasn't able to make it at the last minute. Real pity to to miss the conversation. Yeah. I mean, I I I had a little part in planet of the apes. I I enjoyed the work that I did on it.

Dave:

It does look great. So, you know, it was great to get Drew on board, on the show and get him talking about it. It's always he always has plenty to say, doesn't he? So it's, it's always a pleasure having him on the show.

Matthew:

Yeah. Yeah. He definitely fills 40 minutes. That's definitely no. No.

Matthew:

I'm only joking too. It can the fact that you can play a mute character. And we talked about, my old ogre from, Simba Room. Yes. Kind of wants me I'm very excited to play a mute human, in in this game at some point in the future.

Matthew:

But, yeah. Anyway, you we will put a note in the show notes because there's a kick starter on that. We should have put this in world of gaming as well.

Dave:

We should have done it.

Matthew:

Yeah. Yeah. That's foolish.

Dave:

But, yeah, I mean, the Kickstarter is doing supremely well. I mean, they've smashed through their target. But, yeah, I think there's at least 10 days left on the kickstarter, maybe 2 weeks even. So, get along get along there and back it if you if you wanted

Andrew E.C Gaska:

to go ape.

Matthew:

I see what you did there.

Dave:

Uh-huh.

Matthew:

So, next time, we will probably be be doing another interview. But I can't tell you which of the two options, that Dave and I have discussed it is yet because I've not had a confirmation back from either of them. Yeah. Listen, I haven't actually asked either of them yet.

Dave:

Don't you. Don't no. No. You're supposed

Matthew:

to Don't tell Dave.

Dave:

We're supposed to have these things planned out months in advance, mate. I mean, you shouldn't say this. No. No. We don't we don't do it hand to mouth week to week.

Dave:

Or what the fuck are we gonna do next week? Oh, yeah. Let's do it immediately. We don't do that at all. No.

Dave:

No.

Matthew:

Hey. Or Hey. No. No. Or carefully

Andrew E.C Gaska:

pause it.

Dave:

On Sunday. What what bloody essay are you gonna write? Oh, I don't know. Oh, I'll come up with something. Yeah.

Dave:

We are much better organized than that. Obviously, you know that.

Matthew:

Obviously, we are. We have a I we we have a schedule months in advance. It's really hard to get on our show. If you've got a game to promote, it's really hard to get on our show. But, if you're around no.

Matthew:

No.

Dave:

Give us a call to see you next week.

Andrew E.C Gaska:

If you're

Matthew:

around the next couple. No. We will, come back in 2 weeks time with more scintillating content. Until then, it's goodbye from me.

Dave:

And it's goodbye from him, and may the icons bless your adventures. You have been listening to the effect podcast. Presented by fiction suit and the RPG gods. Music stars on a black sea used with permission of freely publishing.