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Hosted by Steve Phipps of Wayfind Marketing, The Growth-Minded Marketing Podcast simplifies marketing for B2B CEOs ready to grow with confidence. Each episode offers real-world strategies, step-by-step coaching, and inspiring CEO interviews—all designed to help you align your marketing with your business goals, stop wasting time and money, and scale without the stress. If you’re a growth-minded leader tired of vague advice and underperforming tactics, this is your next step.
AnnieLaurie: Hey, friends.
Welcome back to the Growth
Minded Marketing Podcast.
I'm Annie Laurie Walters.
Steve: And I'm Steve Phipps, and
I'm really glad you're here today.
AnnieLaurie: Steve, I wanna
open a little differently today.
We spend a lot of time on this podcast
talking about marketing strategy,
leadership, and business growth,
and we obviously love all of that.
It's our wheelhouse.
at Wayfind Marketing, our mission
goes deeper than strategy.
I'm gonna put you on
the spot for a second.
Can you share with our listeners
Wayfind Marketing's mission statement?
Steve: So, well, AnnieLaurie, our,
vision and mission is we exist to
be bearers of God's light, life,
and goodness to everyone that we
encounter, and our mission is to guide
our clients towards growth so that
they can do more good in the world.
really that last part about doing more
good I mean, that's the part that, that
really gets us energized when we know that
we're helping people who wanna have impact
on their communities, our community,
and, you know, communities beyond.
AnnieLaurie: When you're no longer
running the business, you've
stepped away or passed the baton,
do you want y- your legacy to be?
the pitch deck version, not the mission
statement framed on the lobby wall,
the real legacy, work that outlasts you
and makes an impact on your community,
your industry, or even the world.
Today's guest poses questions like,
was this business a vehicle for
something greater than yourself?
And if you're truly honest, who is
your business ultimately serving?
Steve: And those aren't small
questions, and they're not ones that
most CEOs get to wrestle with in
the middle of running a business.
You're managing growth, leading
your team, solving problems, and
often the bigger questions about
purpose and legacy get pushed aside
and put into a drawer somewhere.
Because how You think about the
purpose of your business, why you
believe it exists, and what you want
to accomplish and whom it ultimately
serves, that shows up in everything.
It becomes a part of the culture.
It affects your brand, your messaging,
and it also influences your ability
to attract great people and keep them
because people want to be part of
something meaningful, something bigger.
You know, purpose isn't
separate from your marketing.
It, it really drives a lot of marketing.
AnnieLaurie: And for business owners
who are also followers of Christ,
there's an even sharper version of these
questions, and it becomes not just what
is the purpose of this business or why
am I doing this in the first place?
itâ¦
The question becomes, does the
way I actually run the business
reflect what I say I believe?
And that's a question today's guest,
Lynn Hardison, has spent years bringing
into focus for business owners.
Most leaders find it's a question they've
been waiting for someone to ask them.
Steve: Len leads the Memphis office
of the National Christian Foundation.
He has spent years walking alongside
of families and business owners
who came in thinking that they
had their giving all figured out,
or at least mostly figured out.
And, and many of them left with an
entirely different vision for what
their giving and what their business
and ultimately their legacy could
be and what it could accomplish.
Len calls this a work of ministry
of discipleship around stewardship.
And I'll say that this conversation is
one of those ones that reminds you why
you built something in the first place.
AnnieLaurie: National Christian
Foundation may be new to many of you
listening today, and that's actually
part of why this conversation matters
so much is consistently ranked among
the top ten largest nonprofits in
the United States and is the largest
Christian ministry in the country.
When Lynn sits down with a family
or a business owner, there's an
extraordinary depth of expertise
and care behind every conversation.
Steve: In my conversation
with Len, we also get into
the practical side of things.
We talk about donor-advised funds,
which may be a new idea for many of you,
asset-based giving and strategies that
many business owners have never heard of.
If you have real estate, a closely
held company or other appreciated
assets, you definitely want to pay
attention if generosity and giving is
something that is important to you.
I know for me personally, I walked
away from this conversation genuinely
moved, and I think you will too.
So let's get into it.
All right.
Hey, friends.
Welcome to the latest episode of
the Growth Minded Marketing Podcast.
Now, one of the my, the things that I get
to do that's really one of the things that
I enjoy the most is getting to talk to and
have conversations with business leaders,
community leaders, folks who have stepped
in to lead an organization and have a
vision to grow, and I especially love when
that dovetails with a greater mission and
really aligning purpose and especially
when it has a focus of eternal impact.
And today my guest is Len Hardison.
Now, Len, some of you, if you are in
the Memphis community you may know Len.
He is with the National Christian
Foundation, and I'm gonna let him tell
more about what he does, but hang around.
This is gonna be a great episode.
Len, welcome to the Growth
Minded Marketing podcast.
So glad you're here.
Love for you just to introduce yourself,
tell a little bit about what you do.
Len: Yeah, thanks, Steve.
I'm, grateful for the opportunity
to come on your podcast and,
have a conversation about this.
So we primarily work with families
to help them be more strategic and
intentional in their charitable giving.
There's some great opportunities in the
tax code, and there are some, some giving
vehicles that are often unknown, or at
the very least underutilized that we
bring to the table in terms of helping
each family come up with what we call a
giving strategy, so that they can make
the most of what's been entrusted to them
and, funnel in a very tax efficient way
their charitable giving to the causes
that they're the most passionate about.
Steve: Fantastic.
Now, Len, I know you and I just
connected a few weeks ago, and we've
had several conversations since.
And really what you guys do is, it's
pretty amazing just to, to hear and
knowing folks that you work with.
But how did you even get started
doing what you're doing working
with National Christian Foundation
which is not just local.
You, you have the local office but
really this is a larger organization.
So tell us a little bit about how
you got started and what your journey
was like to helping families make a
bigger impact with their resources.
Len: Yeah, I was we were
living in Orlando, Florida.
I was working for a ministry down
there in the development world, and
we started receiving donations in from
donor-advised funds, and they came from
a number of different organizations.
They were working with different
families, but one of them or some of
them were from the Orlando office of
National Christian Foundation, and the
president of that office was a friend
of mine, went to church together.
And so when we started to receive these
these donations in from the families
they were working with, I asked him
to get together just so I could,
I could learn more about that, and
that's really where I got introduced
to the world of donor-advised funds.
At NCF, we call it a giving fund 'cause
we're actually trying to encourage these
families to, to send the money out,
not just warehouse it in their fund.
Steve: Mm-hmm.
So for our listeners who are
unfamiliar with that, would you
define what a donor-advised fund is?
Len: Certainly.
Yeah, I think the simplest way to
describe it is it is a charitable checking
account for an individual or a family.
You can have them for a ministry.
You can have them for a business as well.
But the foundation that your donor-advised
fund is in is going to be a public
charity, so anything that you put
into your fund there, that is your
charitable gift, and so that's what
you would write off on your tax return.
And so donor-advised funds can
receive cash, publicly traded
stock, privately held stock, income
producing real estate I mean, all, all
kinds of what we call asset giving.
And so it's this, it's
this great giving vehicle.
The simplest way to talk about it is it is
your family's charitable checking account.
Steve: And so this vehicle,
this, as you said this charitable
checking account, so your gift
into that counts as your deduction.
Correct.
And then from there, it can beâ¦
I guess it's working with, so
donor-advised, so I'm assuming
part of the role that you and your
team play is working with them
to then designate where it goes.
H- how does that work?
Len: Yeah.
So they have advisory rights
in a couple of different ways.
So while, while there are funds
in their donor-advised fund, those
funds can actually be invested
so they can grow while they're
working on their giving plan.
And then when they're ready to recommend
grants, so which is what that's the
terminology for when they send money out
of their fund, it's called recommending
a grant, You know, we work with them
on identifying the causes that they're
most passionate about and make sure that
their charitable giving dollars are, are
going, you know, going to those causes,
those organizations, whether it's their
church, whether it's a charity or a
ministry or some tax exempt, organization.
And it can be in Memphis, it can
be in the United States, it can be
a US-based international ministry.
They have a lot of options.
I think in 2025 the NCF family of
donors recommended grants to about
35,000 different organizations in
the US, and gave away about threeâ¦
a little bit over $3 billion last year.
Steve: Okay.
So you have this fund and
it's interesting becauseâ¦
And I definitely want to
go back to your story.
But even from our conversation, I
remember you saying that you've worked
with folks who have actually putâ¦
you'd mentioned it's, it can be a
vehicle for putting assets into, not
just cash but that you've a- you've
worked with folks who have actually
put their businesses into a, a DAF.
Is, is thatâ¦
Do I remember that correctly?
Is, is that how that can work as well?
Len: That is correct.
Yeah.
So we can receiveâ¦
We, we won't take any asset so
there's a due diligence, process, and
we want to make sure it's a really
good gift for the donor as well,
and that there's gonna be charitable
gifting dollars available to them.
But income producing assets like a
closely held business income producing
real estate, whether it's residential,
commercial income producing farmland,
it can be multi-family or a portfolio
of, of investment houses those are,
those are great assets to, to do
some due diligence and see is that
a better gift for your family, the
income from those assets, is that a
better gift than, than writing checks?
'Cause often there are tax advantages to
donating those assets instead of cash.
So we have, we have one of
our little sayings is "Friends
don't let friends give cash."
And so if a family has assets we would
at least want to look at that balance
sheet and see what's on there and see
if there's a better candidate that they
might wanna, you know, do some evaluation
on in terms of maximizing their giving.
Steve: One of the things that really
stands out to me about a donor-advised
fund is how strategic it is.
Because as you said, you guys
are gonna do the due diligence.
You're gonna work with folks to help
them figure out perhaps putting some
real estate into the donor-advised
fund might be a better use of their
resources than if they were to
cut a check for an equal amount.
Len: That's correct.
Steve: So all right, so going back to
Orlando, you meet the president and,
and you start having this conversation.
So what, what, what happened from there?
Len: I got introduced to
the world of asset giving.
You know, so you, you get inside of
that and, and you realize that some
of the families that are supporting
this organization are funding their
donor-advised funds with family businesses
and income-producing real estate.
And so the NCF Orlando office came
alongside our ministry basically
to educate us you know, as the, the
development team in terms of you
may want to ask the donors that are
supporting you, if they're giving cash,
and , it's a significant gift on an
annual basis, don't assume that their
advisor is talking to them about publicly
traded stock, which is a better- Mm
typically a better gift than cash.
And then he shared with me, you
know, that hey, there are families
out there who use their real
estate portfolio for their giving.
They're using the rental income off of
that, or they've put po- a portion of
their business into their donor-advised
fund, and the tax efficiency that
that brings to the charitable
giving can be very significant.
They can actually give away more without
touching their, their personal finances.
Steve: That's pretty amazing.
So you're in Orlando, you start getting
into this world of asset giving.
So, so what was it that
led you to Memphis?
Len: I grew up here, and so,
oddly enough, the organization in
Orlando that I was working for's
largest donor base was in Memphis.
And so I found myself coming home on a
regular basis, and sometimes we would
come, in, in the summer in particular,
we would stay for weeks at a time.
And so I still had family here,
and we would stay with them.
And, and there was a local
community foundation here,
Their board was actually supporting
this Orlando organization, and so
in about 2015, we started to have a
conversation about, would you ever
be interested in moving back to work,
you know, to work for the foundation?
And so by the time we got to 2018,
it started to seem like that was
a, a direction that was mutually
of interest to everyone, and so we
started to have that conversation.
And in the midst of all of that National
Christian Foundation reached out and said,
"We'd love to have an office in Memphis.
Would y'all have an interest in
basically partnering with us to become
the, the Memphis office of NCF?"
And NCF has 30-plus offices.
Their headquarters are in Alpharetta,
so North Atlanta, but they have 30-plus
offices around the country, you know,
serving, mm, 30,000, 40,000 families
in their charitable giving and, and
bringing some unique solutions to to those
Steve: families.
You move back to Memphis and you open
up this, this office, this branch, if
you will, of NCF, and, and effectively,
you're, you're running your own business.
Len: Correct.
Yep.
So we're, we're a u- bit of a unicorn
in the non-profit space in that we
don't need to go out and fundraise in
the community to you know, to provide
services, and so it's, it's through
the, the assets under management.
And so, but yes, we're, we're very
much, We're almost in the financial
world in terms of we look really
similar to an investment firm.
We just happen to be on the
charitable giving side of that.
Steve: So, so you get to Memphis.
Obviously, you have a lot of relationships
here and a lot of people that you already
knew, but what was that like the first
couple of years as you were getting your
feet under you and trying to establish
the office and, and, and start to bring
in families to, to join in through NCF?
Len: Yeah.
I th- I think in particular, one of
the early questions that I would get
in meetings with people about the
foundation is, "Why have, why have I
never heard of a donor-advised fund?"
And so it was and it still is just
a, a really unique giving tool
that is available to families.
And so I, I spent the first couple
of years and I still use this phrase,
I think it's, you know, probably the
worst kept secret in f- in charitable
giving is I, I continue to be introduced
to families that they've never
even heard of a donor-advised fund.
So really early on our efforts
were, and they, they still
are, educational in nature.
There is, there is an opportunity for
individuals and families whether they
are whether they're wealthy or they may
not be wealthy, but they have a desire
to be intentional in their giving.
And a donor-advised fund is, I
think it's the, the best vehicle
to help to help someone or a family
be intentional in their giving.
And so the, the vast majority
of those early years were
really just around education.
"Why has nobody told me about this?
What is this?
This sounds too good to be true."
They're like those types of,
those types of conversations.
Steve: Well, and I think it's
worth noting here that, that a, a
donor-advised fund is not unique to NCF.
Some of the big investment houses
also run donor-advised funds.
So, so it's not like NCF is
just holding this unique thing.
It's, this is something that,
that exists even outside.
So as, as you're having these
conversations with, with families,
what have you learned in terms of
who this is the right fit for and
who it's not the right fit for?
Len: Yeah.
So I think, There are a couple of
categories in terms of what makes
us unique in the marketplace and,
and why some families are attracted
to us and, and and why we're not a
fit for, you know, for everybody.
So donor-advised funds are about 100
years old, so a lot of people don't
realize that, and this kind of goes back
to the worst-kept secret in philanthropy.
They really started to come into
focus in the late '60s, early '70s,
and then the first asset gift, so up
until 1982, all donor-advised funds,
and these, these existed primarily at
community foundations around the country.
That's, that's where you
saw donor-advised funds.
But in 1982, there was a gift that was
taken in a, a C corp, a privately held
C corp gift by some estate planning
attorneys in Atlanta, and that was the
genesis of National Christian Foundation.
They got what's called a private letter
ruling that gave them the ability to
take in privately held C corp stock.
That was the only place in the
country you could do that, and those
three men, Terry Parker, Ron Blue,
and Larry Burkett started, started
National Christian Foundation.
After that, you started to see,
so NCF was the first national
outfit that was doing that.
Before that, it was all
community foundations.
But then you saw the large wirehouses,
whether it's Fidelity or Schwab
or Vanguard, got, you know, have
gotten into the space, so have the
different investment firms as well.
So not all of them have, you know, their
own DAF platform, so, but quite a few do.
So distinctions for NCF, I think,
kind of falls in three categories.
One I, one I touched on is
we're, we're really intentional
at encouraging generosity.
So I think a lot of people, you put money
in your donor-advised fund, or you've put
some assets in your donor-advised fund, I,
I don't say this flippantly, but big deal.
Like is there any impact in that?
You know.
And so I feel like through our giving
strategy there's a lot of intentionality
in coming alongside families and helping
them craft a strategy on their charitable
giving To make sure that the dollars
are going to the causes they're most
passionate about, and then using that
donor advised fund as a stewardship
tool inside their family to pass along
values to their loved ones, the next
generation, and the next generation.
Second piece that that I would
say makes us unique is because we
started as an organization taking in
asset gifts, that is our specialty.
Mm.
And so we've done it
longer than anyone else.
I, I would say we are we're exceptionally
gifted in the ability to look at gift
opportunities and advise a family if it
is a good gift or not, whether it's a
business or real estate or we take in
oil and gas rights, we take in medical
device patents intellectual property.
Wow.
There are these great opportunities,
so we have just a, a, a very deep
bench of in-house legal expertise
to advise families on that.
And then I think third and, and the
most unique part of NCF is the, the
community of like-minded people that
there's, there's a lot of cross-country,
like across the country families
piggybacking on some of the, some of
the charitable giving solutions pooling
their money for greater impact into,
you know, these different organizations.
And so even though we're, we're big, we do
have that local presence, and when we are
working with a family that's passionate
about something in particular, it's not
uncommon for us to connect them with a
like-minded family in another city who may
be a little further ahead on that journey.
So, I think those are, those are
three distinctives that really kind
of separate us in the marketplace.
Steve: So talk a little bit aboutâ¦
'Cause, because obviously it's
in the name, National Christian
Foundation, so, so talk a little
bit about the, the faith aspect.
And, and, and actually before
you do, just something that, that
I learned last week if, ifâ¦
Correct me if I'm off here, but I think
NCF nationally is the eighth largest- Mm
charitable organization in the US.
So, so we're not talking about,
we're not talking about a,
this small type organization.
Is, is, is that correct?
Len: Yeah, so you're correct.
It varies from year to year.
I think we've been as, as high as
the fourth largest public charity.
We're, we're very consistently inside
the top 10 in terms of overall size.
And then as in terms of ministries,
we are the largest Christian
ministry in the, in the country.
Steve: So, so to that point,
talk a little bit about what,
what, what impact, what, whatâ¦
why Christian, you know,
National Christian Foundation?
What's the significance of
that in context of what you do?
Len: Yeah.
I think we're we're looking for
like-minded people in terms of generosity
you know, vision, and and like-mindedness
in terms of charitable giving goals.
So, you know, biblically based not
prescriptive but biblically based
in terms of of the organizations
that we will write grants to.
And I think just a, a little bit more of
a focus in terms of charitable giving.
And obviously we tend to
attract a lot of people that
are like-minded in that as well.
Steve: Sure.
So, so clearly, I mean, that's
part of the the philosophy, if you
will, of NCF that guides is, is
following biblical principles, not
only in terms, you know, of, ofâ¦
I mean, part of the call of scripture
is being good stewards of what's
been entrusted to us, and so this
is providing a unique vehicle
to help families do just that.
Len: Correct.
Steve: So as, as you have been in the
Memphis market for a number of years
now, what are some of the challenges that
you've had other than educating people
on what a DAF is, what are some of the
challenges that you have faced in, in
just growing the organization, growing
the awareness and your presence here,
working with families, and as you've s-
sought to bring more people on board?
Len: I think one of the areas
that's, that's been a challenge
is because we are a ministry there
seems to be this component of going
after, you know, people's hearts.
So this is a often describe
our work as a ministry of
discipleship around stewardship.
And culturally there is just
an awful lot of messaging about
accumulation and how much is enough.
And so, it doesâ¦
I, I think I mentioned
this when we were together.
It does not take much for someone to
talk themselves out of being generous.
And it's not always a scarcity mindset
but it may be a lack of trust or a lack
of contentment you know, kind of mindset.
And so, it can be a great opportunity
to speak into that in a, again,
in a non-prescriptive way.
I mean, every family that we meet with,
when we get introduced to them, they're
in a different place You know, so not
everybody starts at the same place on, on
what we call this journey of generosity.
And so, we are typically asking what,
what I call thought-provoking questions
in these meetings with them really to
answer a couple of different things.
How much is enough?
How much do you pass along to
your loved ones, children, in
a way that doesn't harm them?
And then third, what do
you do with the rest?
And a lot of people think, oh, you're
really focused on that third question
because it's around charitable giving,
and I would say they are so interconnected
that they, they all are drivers in
that, you know, in that conversation.
You really can't answer any of those
without looking at all three well.
And so I think having those types of
conversations you know, with a, with a
prospective family or a family meeting
with someone we're already working
with because they're they're, they're
constantly reevaluating is our giving
having the, the impact that we want with
the causes we're supporting, but are weâ¦
is- are we able to pass our values
along to our loved ones in a way
that is significant, meaningful,
well-communicated, and are you doing
that while you're alive as opposed
to just being read to your loved
ones from your will or estate plan?
Steve: Yeah.
Well, and, and the event that, that
you guys hosted here locally last
week and the gentleman who was sharing
about involving their kids and giving
them a, a certain amount of money
each year to be able to give out to
organizations of their choosing and
why they did that and, and soâ¦
And then in fact there
was three generations.
It was the grandparents, the
parents, and the kids, and, and
how that has just morphed and
grown and expanded as the, theâ¦
their kids, their boys, have
now moved into adulthood.
So, man, there's so many different
ways that this can impact people.
So in your years of leading different
organizations and, and growing NCF
here locally, the challenges you
faced, what, what piece of advice,
if you could pass one piece of advice
along to other organizational leaders,
whether it's nonprofit executive
leaders or executive directors or
CEOs, what, what would you pass along?
Len: I think a couple of
thoughts come to mind.
One is what have you been entrusted with
that you could use as a generosity engine?
Mm.
So, you know, I know a lot of business
owners that say, "God owns my business."
I don't know a whole lot of business
owners that have actually invited God
into the business as a shareholder.
Mm.
You know, from thatâ¦
So I, I would say just entertaining that
conversation in a, in a thought-provoking-
way is just can be really compelling.
And some of the, some of the responses
from that, you know, hey you say,
you say God owns your, your business.
If God really came in and looked
at your books would he, would
he invest in your business?
Mm.
And so I think that's, that's something
that I think every business owner,
you know, really ought to, you know,
ought to consider is what is, what
has been entrusted to me and that
I, that I might wanna look at in
terms of using for, for generosity.
I think the second second piece
of it is we want good employees.
You know, man, it just seems like
every company out there hiring
talent, retaining talent is just a
real challenge in, in a variety of
industries for a variety of reasons.
And so I would say having a component as
the driving force behind your business
where the purpose of the business isn't
to enrich the owner's life at the expense
of the employees and the customers,
becomes a much more compelling business.
And so whatever that, that purpose
is I, I think that's a question that
every business owner really ought to
wrestle with is, you know, if you're
just trying to buy a fourth house you
know, that's the end goal of your, your
business or it's, it's about lifestyle
and other people are working to enrich
it and it's, it's coming, you know,
through the, through the customer base.
Whether it's verbal or not, it's
a, it's a message that you're
sending out into the community.
Mm.
And so just, you know, h- how do I use
this business well and and how does
that, you know, help the community?
Has it created a better work environment
inviting people into a better story?
Yeah.
Hey, we'reâ¦
Yes, we're about being profitable.
This is what we do.
This is our service or our product,
and we want to do it with excellence.
But we're, we are here to make
Memphis more like the kingdom
in terms of fulfilling the,
you know, the great commission.
Can you use your business
in any way to, to do that?
So I think those are, those
are two things that stand out.
Steve: Yeah.
Man, that's, that's, even as a business
owner and, and listening to you
talk t- that's, that's challenging.
That's, that's, and, and it goes
back to what you were saying
earlier is, is there's a, a
discipleship component to this.
There's, there's a heart level
posture and, and it's not just
about maximizing the investments.
That's certainly part of it, but it's
from that posture of what, what's really
motivating me, what's motivating my heart.
When there's so many other
things that we could talk about.
So for those that are, are curious,
they wanna learn more how can, how
can folks get in touch with you?
Len: Yeah, so we have our office
here in, in Memphis in the Poplar
and Shady Grove area, so we're on the
World Wide Web, ncfgiving.com/memphis,
and find m- all my contact
information is on there.
I'm also on LinkedIn.
If someone wants to hit me up there,
I, I actually connect with a lot
of business owners on on LinkedIn,
and so that's, that's probably
the easiest places to find me.
Steve: And we can put both of
those links in the show notes.
And I would also say that because some
of our listeners are gonna be outside of
Memphis, that you mentioned that NCF has
30-plus locations, and so even if you just
go to the website, go to NCF's website,
There's a good chance you're gonna
find somebody who's nearby or who
could still be a point of contact.
Well, Lynn, thank you so much for
joining me on the podcast today.
And, and for our listeners,
definitely reach out to Lynn.
He's got some fantastic stories of folks
that have done just what he's described,
people putting their companies, and,
and I know of one example that it's
not just a company of just 10 people.
I mean, this is a company of hundreds of
employees and folks that are doing exactly
what you've talked about, where they'reâ¦
it's not just lip service, but
they're putting their company into
the fund and, and as you said,
inviting God in as, as a shareholder.
So Lynn, thanks again for joining us,
and look forward to more conversation.
Len: Thank you, Steve.
AnnieLaurie: Let's dig into a few of the
key moments in your conversation with Lynn
because there are some real gems in there.
I want to start with the line I know
is going to live rent-free in a lot
of our listeners' heads, and that is,
"Friends don't let friends give cash."
What was your reaction
when Lynn said that?
Steve: Well, I, I think it, it helps
reframe something that I think most
of us default to without thinking.
When we think about giving, we
often think about giving money
a check, cash, whatever it is.
But what Len was saying is that really,
if you have any sort of appreciated
assets, you could be leaving impact
on the table by only giving cash.
You can often give more strategically
by donating the asset itself.
The tax efficiency alone seems like
it could be pretty significant.
AnnieLaurie: And you know what
struck me is that he's not
saying it to be provocative.
He says it because most people genuinely
don't know a better option exists.
He's been having that same
educational conversation for
years because this information
just isn't always widely known.
Honestly, that could be a marketing
problem as much as anything else.
Steve: Yeah, really is.
It's, it's the best giving
vehicle that most people have
never heard of or encountered.
AnnieLaurie: Exactly.
Okay, so the moment I could not stop
thinking about after the interview is
this: that God is a shareholder concept.
That was totally new to me.
It never even occurred
to me to think like that,
you know, as a believer, it was
really profound to hear him say that.
said that a lot of business owners
claim God owns part of their
business, specifically Christian
business owners would claim that
God owns part of their business,
but very few have actually invited
God into the books as a shareholder.
Now, that was definitely something
new for me to wrestle with.
How did that hit home for you?
Steve: mean, it's, it's
a, it's a gut check.
It's, it'sâ¦
You can hold a, a belief loosely as, as
a nice sentiment and, and, and believe
it, but not actually do anything with it.
But the way that Len frames it is
more of as an operational reality.
If, if God were looking at
the books, what would He say?
Would He invest?
And, and that question moves things
from the theoretical to the concrete.
AnnieLaurie: Yes, it does.
And it even just makes me think
of, you know, doing everything
with excellence, you know, working
towards personal excellence in
everything you do, what God invests.
Like, He's not justâ¦
He's not conveying only that
we're looking at the numbers.
We're looking at all of it.
We're looking at the, the, the core values
and the spirit and, and how you actually
walk out what you say you believe.
And at Wayfind, we really feel that.
mission isn't a tagline.
It's a lens that we use
to try to make decisions.
We it to ourselves at
our weekly team meeting.
We remind each other of it regularly,
to be bearers of God's light,
life, and goodness to everyone
we encounter, and it shows up.
I can say, you know, for years of
working with you for this company it
shows up in everything we do, how we
treat our teams, you know, which clients
we say yes to, how we do work for
organizations like Spreading Sunshine.
That belief connects to the behavior,
and I see that playing out for
us here at Wayfind, for sure.
Steve: Yeah.
And, and, you know, Len does a good
job of connecting that directly
to something very practical.
And, you know, he mentions the talent and
retention challenges that, you know, most
companies are facing in some capacity.
And, and that when the purpose behind a
business is larger than just making the
owner wealthier or so they can increase
their, their net worth, people feel that.
They feel it when there's something more
tangible, something more meaningful.
You know, Simon Sinek talks
about it in Start with Why.
When there's a clear and a compelling
why, employees feel it, customers feel
it, and it's a different kind of story
that you're inviting people into.
AnnieLaurie: Them?
And what does faithful
stewardship of the rest look like?
made those land so well?
Steve: I think it's because most
of us, if we think about generosity
at all in a structured way, we jump
straight to that third question,
what to do with the excess?
And Len's essentially saying you can't
reach a meaningful answer without
genuinely sitting with the first two.
AnnieLaurie: Yes.
And they require a level of intentionality
that it's easy to overlook, you
know, that level of intentionality.
And it's really what NCF is offering, not
just this financial vehicle, but it's,
it's kind of like a thinking partner in
a way, just someone to help you process
and work through all of it together.
All right, if today's conversation stirred
something in you, here's your next step.
Reach out to Lynn directly.
You can find him at ncfgiving.com/memphis,
and he's active on LinkedIn
as well, Lynn Hardison.
You can find him there.
We will link this information
in our show notes.
Steve: And if you're outside Memphis,
NCF has over 30 offices nationwide, so
there's a strong chance that someone
is going to be reasonably close.
And a great starting
point is ncfgiving.com.
AnnieLaurie: Now, if today's episode got
you thinking about the health of your
own business, we wanna make sure you
have a practical next step to take on
the marketing side too, because purpose
and strategy have to work together
Steve: Our free marketing assessment you
can find that at wayfindmarketing.com.
It's 25 yes/no questions, and it's for
businesses, for business owners who really
wanna get an understanding of what's
working and what's not for your marketing.
It gives you an honest look at, at
what's going well and what could be
working better, what needs attention.
It shows you where to focus.
It's free, and it gives you a very clear
picture more so than what most business
owners have, have had, so you get a sense
of where your marketing actually stands.
AnnieLaurie: So head on
over to wayfindmarketing.com
and take the assessment.
It's the kind of clarity that makes every
conversation after it more productive.
Steve: And if this episode added
value, if you found it helpful,
interesting, something worth sharing,
number one, we'd ask you to subscribe.
Wherever you listen to podcasts,
leave us a review and share this
episode with someone you think
would enjoy it and benefit from it.
AnnieLaurie: Until next time,
thanks for joining us on the
Growth Minded Marketing Podcast.