Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Real News For Real New Mexicans.
The Chile Wire with Abe Baldonado. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to The Chili Wire. This week, I am honored to introduce my guests, Sam and Raul Viehl. Sam, Raul, thank you so much for coming on The Chili Wire today.
Abe Baldonado:How are you guys doing?
Raul Vigil:Doing great.
Sam Vigil:Thank you. Wonderful.
Raul Vigil:Honored to be here. Thank you.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. Thank you for coming on the show, and I think we're gonna have a lot to talk about today. Raul, you're a former state police officer, retired now, and that's one of it's National First Responders Day, so I wanna thank you for your service
Raul Vigil:Thank you.
Abe Baldonado:Protecting our community. So thank you so much for that. Thank you. Yeah. My pleasure.
Abe Baldonado:Well, gentlemen, we're we're in the midst of a mayoral election right now. And one of the big things that isn't being talked about by our mayor is crime or any fixes or any solutions that he's done to address crime. And to me, it seems like crime has gotten worse over the years, not just in Albuquerque, but throughout our state. And I know a lot of our legislators try to say it's an Albuquerque issue. I think it's a statewide issue.
Abe Baldonado:Oftentimes, we see a lot of critics say, well, every state has crime. That's true. But in a state that's our size, the amount of crime that we see per capita is significant. And, you know, I I wanna I want people to hear your story because what has frustrated me over the years is that there's been a lot of emphasis on the criminals. You know?
Abe Baldonado:What what did they go through that led them to become criminals? And there's a lot of sympathy. And, you know, we hear people use the word empathy a lot, and they're trying to be empathetic towards a criminal. But what frustrates me is that we're not being sympathetic to the families, to the victims who have been, you know, impacted by crimes. And we don't hear enough of those voices, and I think it's gonna be really important for people to hear your story today and your experience because you've lived it.
Abe Baldonado:You've lived someone's worst nightmare, what we all think about with our families. You know, you all have gone through it, and I think it's important for people to realize that we need to really think about the families who have been impacted because of criminals, not the other way around. But just wanna open it up to you all to just share, you know, your story. I know, Raul, we've had the chance to talk offline, but I think it's gonna be important for New Mexicans to hear this perspective because I don't think there's enough of it going around where victims are you know? And there's some great organizations where victims and their families have now started building coalitions, but it's still not loud enough.
Abe Baldonado:And I think we need to make that louder that, hey. We're here, and we're demanding to see a difference in our communities. Absolutely.
Sam Vigil:Yeah. Yeah. You know, I can talk a little bit about my my wife's story, I guess, Jacqueline Behill, when she was actually murdered back in 2019. And and to me, it was an avoidable murder that could have been avoided if only century centurary city policies would not have been in place. I think my wife would be alive today.
Sam Vigil:You know? I think she'd be probably talking to me. I probably wouldn't be here.
Abe Baldonado:Be out enjoying a nice lunch, having coffee.
Sam Vigil:Yep. Yep. But the person that killed her had a long criminal history in Albuquerque going all the way back to to 2006.
Raul Vigil:And I I can read that to you if you want
Sam Vigil:me to. I don't know if you want me to go Yeah.
Abe Baldonado:You know, Sam, I think it's important because at the end of the day, repeat offenders has been a problem that has plagued our state. And a lot of folks have said, well, you know, a lot of these offenders, they're petty misdemeanors until they're not. And reading the rap sheet of this individual, I think it's important for people to listen. This was a clear indication that he had always been violent. Like, were charges against him that he has always been violent.
Abe Baldonado:And yet, again, he was always let out and never charged and was again back in our streets. And in addition to the the sanctuary policies, we talked a little bit about this offline, but, you know, while many immigrants intentions are good of coming here, there's a lot of folks that want just a better life. Unfortunately, there's criminal empires that want to exploit that and use it for their own benefit to wreak havoc on communities, and that's through drug trafficking, human trafficking. And Raul, I'm sure you have stories during your time as a state state police officer that we'd love to just kinda hear about that. But to me, I feel like a lot of those people hide behind the sanctuary policies because they know this is a safe haven for us to commit crimes, and they're not gonna go after us.
Sam Vigil:Yeah. And that I think that's exactly what what happened to to my wife. You know, I the the man who killed her, probably felt really safe, in Albuquerque where he could do just about anything that he wanted to do, you know.
Abe Baldonado:Well, and given his rapture, he was always just let off the
Sam Vigil:hook. Right. Yep. That's true. So just Let me just read a little bit about, you know, you know, his criminal history that goes back all the way to 2006.
Sam Vigil:K. We'll start with 04/16/2008. He was charged with battery on a household member, telephone harassment, battery on a household member. He was deported on 11/07/2008, but he was back in Albuquerque on 11/15/2008 charged with on the same day with aggravated stalking. On 11/26/2008, he was charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon.
Sam Vigil:01/06/2009 charged with receiving property over $2,500. 03/12/2009, indicted for aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, shooting at an occupied building, shooting into or from a vehicle. At that time, he was I guess, I I to the best of my knowledge, I think he was caught up in Colorado, was arrested there for eluding a police officer. He was in jail or in prison for or was sentenced for eight years, he served about four years of that charge, of the eight years that he was supposed to be behind bars. He was released on 09/05/2019 and he was deported to Mexico.
Sam Vigil:He was back in Albuquerque on by September. On that same day, he broke into a truck that was parked at the Hyatt Hotel, stole my nine mile metal Metamaler.
Raul Vigil:Millimeter.
Sam Vigil:Yeah. Sorry about that.
Abe Baldonado:It's okay.
Sam Vigil:It couldn't come up with anyway, and other property, DNA and fingerprints matched the the the killer, you know, they ran him through their database, guess the police. And they knew who it was, you know, and I would think that with the long history that he had, that they would have said, well, you know, this guy is not a good guy, you know, he probably doesn't belong out on the streets, should we do something like that? But anyway, on October 31, he had an altercation with another man at at an apartment complex. The man tried to get away from for whatever reason and drove his car out. The killer and another associate of his followed him shooting at the at the at the vehicle, putting bullet holes in the back of the trunk of the individual that were trying to get away.
Sam Vigil:He got away, but, you know, he was lucky that he didn't get killed. October 29, the the killer post photographs of the guns that he had stolen on Facebook, you know, for sale guns, you know, and and again, you would think that they they know who this guy is, they know what he's doing, you know. To me, any logical, any reasonable person that, would see this kind of behavior on his part would say, this man does not belong out on the streets, know, he's gonna, he's doing damage to to the community, he he doesn't belong there. Openly selling the guns on Facebook, November 19, just a few days after after that, he kills my wife. Drives up to I I will never forget this.
Sam Vigil:It was the morning of the early morning of the nineteenth. Brown probably we we we would get up real early because my wife liked to go to the gym every day before she went to work. And so we would get up at 04:30, fifteen, you know, fifteen to five, and she would always get ready, come downstairs, and tell me, well, you know, I'll be back in an hour grab a bowl of fruit and get in the car and try to move. That morning, I heard the little garage door open because I was sitting in the kitchen drinking coffee. And all of a sudden, I heard the honk on the car, and I thought, well at that moment, I thought, well, she probably forgot her ID card for the gym or or something else.
Sam Vigil:You know? So I thought, well, I better go out there and and see what she wants. When I opened the garage door, the door from the kitchen to the garage, I saw this Jeep blocking her car, know, not letting her completely pull out of the the garage. And I thought, well, even then, I thought, well, maybe maybe it's the paper guy. You know?
Sam Vigil:But it's kinda weird that he's blocking my wife. You know? And because I didn't hear the the the shot. I didn't hear the, you know so I I kept walking and I saw this guy running like crazy getting on the on the jeep, pulling back as far or as fast as they could and taking off. I didn't think they were gonna make the corner.
Sam Vigil:There was a sharp corner where I lived, and I thought, man, they're not gonna make it. But they did. You know? But as I got closer to the car, I the bullet hole on the on the on the window on the driver's side, she had shot her in the head and and got away. You know, he took off.
Sam Vigil:And if it hadn't been for in my opinion, it hadn't been for president Trump and his project legend, you know, that he initiated then, the FBI involved with the case. I a really good agent. You know? I I have a lot of respect for him. I won't mention his name because I don't have permission for him to do that.
Sam Vigil:But, I think he's the best of the best. You can't find anybody better than that. And I think he's got a really good reputation among all law enforcement people. You know?
Abe Baldonado:And I'm sure he's become a dear friend of y'alls as well.
Raul Vigil:Oh, absolutely. I know my dad stays in contact with him still. That's that's the type of person he is, but he he went above and beyond. Right? And
Sam Vigil:Oh, yeah. He is he's the best. I I I just you know, a few weeks or a few days after he got involved, they arrested the guy in in in in Antonio. And it wasn't for for the murder of my wife, but it was federal charges. I think it was probably entering the country legally again, you know.
Sam Vigil:But, yeah, after that, you know, things begin to roll, you know, and and
Abe Baldonado:But it took almost about two years, right, before he was formally charged from when he murdered Jackie to that point. And that that's a really long time. And, you know, I think about that, you know, it it seemed like it took maybe the president mobilizing his resources to really dig down deep. I mean, just curious, like, had the case kinda stalled locally on the investigation? And that's why it, like, took the president to mobilize his folks from the FBI to
Sam Vigil:Right.
Abe Baldonado:Track down the murder.
Sam Vigil:I I
Raul Vigil:think we could agree that it did kinda slow down. Right? There there were some things that kinda came up that prevented the case from going forward. And and I I don't know if you have more about that. But
Sam Vigil:Yeah. What what happened was some some other person actually, I guess, confessed, you know, that he guess that he was the one, you know. Mhmm. And when he wasn't, you know, the guy didn't have any thing to do with wasn't even close to where the murder happened, you know. But I think that kind of stalled the the whole case for a while.
Sam Vigil:But, again, thanks to president Trump for putting resources behind it, you know, and and and getting agent the FBI agent involved in it, you know, because, again, that that's when things really begin to happen. The guy did finally get convicted. He got a thirty year life sentence worth for thirty years in New Mexico, which in my opinion is not a life sentence. Yeah. The ones that have a life sentence is people like me or victims like me.
Sam Vigil:We you know, when when our loved ones are killed, you know, they're not gonna come back. Some of some of these criminals that will walk the streets again, you know, they'll get out and some of them mean not even the thirty years, you know. Yeah. But, yeah, it it it it's the the the justice system, I think, needs to be rehauled. I think that the life sentence should be a real life sentence.
Sam Vigil:You know? Just like we as as victims have to to live a life, you know Yeah.
Abe Baldonado:It's a life sentence for you all and the tragedy that you suffered. It's it's a life sentence that you have to carry with you, and that's a a very difficult way to to carry on your shoulder. And I couldn't even imagine. And and unfortunately, there are many families around New Mexico that have gone through this same experience. And, you know, I I don't know how many of them are are willing to talk about it as you two gentlemen are here, but I I really think it's important for more of those voices to start being proactive and saying, hey.
Abe Baldonado:We need some real accountability here. The system is broken, and let's call it for what it is. It is broken. We have public officials who do not want to address these problems. They wanna make believe that we live in a fairy tale and crime isn't that bad and, you know, the tragedies are just exaggerated.
Abe Baldonado:And I think that's an insult to the families who have to live with this every single day.
Raul Vigil:Yeah. I think you're right. But at that same on that same note, I think people are starting to realize how bad things are getting. I really, really believe this. It's it's slowly getting there.
Raul Vigil:And, you know, when it comes back to, like, people, you know, in government and the people that make these decisions and create these policies, you know, it's disappointing to say the least, but that's why I want to circle back and and talk about President Trump really quickly. And I and I really want to say, regardless of how people feel the truth is the truth, he really stepped it up for us. And we are very grateful for him.
Abe Baldonado:And on that note, you all got to sit down with the president. Am I correct? Yeah.
Raul Vigil:Yes.
Abe Baldonado:You guys actually got to sit down with the president. It wasn't his staff or any of his folks that you talked. You actually sat down with the president and had a conversation about this.
Raul Vigil:Yeah. And and I'll never forget when we when we met with him at the White House, one of the first things I told him is, sir, it's an honor to meet you. Thank you for having us here. And he told me, no, no, Raul. He goes, the honor is mine.
Raul Vigil:He goes, I'm the one that invited you here. And, it it really it really made me respect him more because he knew the gravity of the situation that that was at hand. I mean, and he also said, you know what? I'm gonna give you guys the resources you need. We're gonna make sure to find this guy.
Raul Vigil:And he stuck with his word. Yeah. You know? He he really meant what he said, and he followed through with it. And that's why regardless of what anybody says, you know, we we have, great respect for, president Trump.
Raul Vigil:We're very thankful for him. He's a man of his word. He came through for us right at it. And, you know, I I just wanna make that point. You know, it's it's important, especially, you know, like you made a great point.
Raul Vigil:You know, a lot of politicians and a lot of lawmakers are more concerned about the the criminals. Right? You know, poor this guy. What what caused them to do this, that? And and I think when it comes to victims of violent crime or survivors, you know, I think that we're forgotten.
Raul Vigil:And that's why I encourage my dad too to, you know, to continue, you know, talking about this. And and what we definitely want is to make sure it never happens again to anybody else.
Sam Vigil:Absolutely. I I think as much it's it's it's difficult sometimes to to talk about it, but I think it's necessary to to to bring it out, to tell people what it really happened, you know, and how dangerous, you know, in my opinion, sanctuary city policies are. Yeah. I don't think a lot of people realize that, you know, the police are not to arrest people according to the the the resolution that they passed back in 2018 or '19. Anyway, it was, you know, it it it it spells out very clearly, you know, that they're not cooperating with any other the federal law enforcement people.
Sam Vigil:And that's dangerous. You know? That's very dangerous.
Abe Baldonado:And there's pros and cons in everything. And but, you know, you really have to look at what are the consequences here Exactly. Of this policy. And, yes, could it be well intended? Absolutely.
Abe Baldonado:But what are the consequences? What is actually happening? And I think we're seeing it now. Just the other day, we saw the human trafficking event here in Albuquerque where they found an individual who was harboring individuals from Mexico and holding them at ransom. Yeah.
Abe Baldonado:You know? And these are poor families who probably wanted to come here and just get away from crime and poverty and try to make something for themselves here. But now they're being held ransom by their own people Exactly. Which is shocking to me.
Raul Vigil:Yeah. And and we wanna make make it clear that we're not against immigration. Right? We know that that's on when it's done right, when it's gone, when they go through the proper channels, and the and the immigrants come here to be a productive member of society, it's a great thing. We we know that.
Raul Vigil:We believe in that. Obviously, our situation is a lot different. And and my dad read out, you know, pretty much all the charges and
Abe Baldonado:This wasn't a law abiding citizen. No. This was a repeat violent offender who was roaming our streets.
Raul Vigil:So so it makes you ask yourself the question, well, why why would you why would the local authorities not want to cooperate with the feds in order to take someone like this off the streets? It it just blows our mind. Yeah.
Sam Vigil:Or or even a breath. If they don't wanna turn him over to ICE, arrest the guy, you know. Yeah.
Abe Baldonado:At least arrest him.
Sam Vigil:Yeah. Charge guy was racing hell. He was a dangerous Trying to kill somebody. You know?
Abe Baldonado:I mean, shooting at other cars, battery Yeah. Domestic violence. I mean
Raul Vigil:It's all over
Abe Baldonado:the those aren't minor crimes. I mean, those are severe charges. And, you know, I think anyone who just common sense I think we have to go back to common sense with common sense as Yeah. This is gonna progressively get worse. If he's already committing crimes like this, it's only a matter of time until it is even worse Yeah.
Abe Baldonado:In which it happened. And And and
Sam Vigil:I wanted to add to just my wife was an immigrant. She she was from Colombia. She came in the legal way. You know? Mhmm.
Sam Vigil:And she was also she said, I I left America after she got her citizenship. I want I want she wanted to be a school teacher. And she had enrolled in, CNN, I believe, at the time. I don't I don't know if it's still CNN or
Abe Baldonado:That's great.
Sam Vigil:Yeah. It's still CNN. And she she had two years in, and then she wanted to transfer over to UNM. That was her dream, you know, and that was the way she said that that's my dream, and that's what I wanna do, you know. And and she was working on it.
Raul Vigil:She was
Sam Vigil:working really hard. She would go to class at night after work, come back home, try to do lessons in between, you know, going to bed and and and then having to get up early in the morning and that kind of stuff. But, yeah, she was an immigrant that, wanted to live the the American dream, as you know.
Abe Baldonado:Well and I'm a former educator, so hearing that part of Jackie's story that she wanted to be an educator is truly amazing just because she wanted to give back. She wanted to work with kids and create the next generation of future leaders and just, you know, provide them with the skills necessary. And what a beautiful story that is is that that was her intentions of coming here.
Raul Vigil:Right. It's it's a it's a unbelievable if you think about it because you're you're you're talking about, on one side, someone coming to this country to terrorize it and versus someone that's coming here to be part of it, to contribute to it, you know, and their paths met on November 19 in a in a horrible way. And and it's it's, again, to the the reason we we bring that up a lot is because, you know, again, we don't we're not against immigration. It's we we we know we want immigration. It's good when it's done correctly.
Raul Vigil:You know? It's just when you have criminals and you have people terrorizing our community and there's no accountability for it, You know, that's that's that's a big problem.
Abe Baldonado:The first step is admitting it. Right? Admitting you have a problem. And with that, you do have a problem. When you have open borders and you have lax border security, you end up having criminals flood communities.
Abe Baldonado:And, I mean, you see it in Texas. You see it in Arizona. You see it here in New Mexico. I mean, we we had a podcast a few weeks ago with Rudy Mora
Raul Vigil:who's a former thinking about that.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. With with Rudy and Rudy telling us the stories of just even how cartels and a lot of these criminal organizations exploit police officers and, you know, attack their families. And then these police officers are now subject to being charged when they had a great career, but in order to protect their families, they, you know, locked arms with these criminal organizations and, you know, they got held accountable for it. And, you know, it's it's it's an unfortunate thing that is happening, and it's actually plaguing our communities. And I think it would be wrong of us to deny that it's even happening.
Abe Baldonado:And I and I get frustrated when I see leaders trying to deny it. And, you know, you and I chatted about where Albuquerque ranks statistically when it comes to crimes per capita. And I mean, we're up there with some of the most notorious cities across the world. I mean, South America. Yes.
Abe Baldonado:The Middle East. I mean, it's just it's shocking.
Raul Vigil:Yeah. And and that's what blew my mind is when I first saw that statistic, I thought, okay, that's in the nation. Right? Which is bad enough. But when they said, no, this is in the world.
Raul Vigil:You're in the top 20 most violent cities in the world. It it just it's unbelievable.
Sam Vigil:It's it's kind of a shock to me. I just happened to be scrolling on my computer, you know, and I thought, well, and it came up, you know, and I thought, no, it can't be, maybe The US, you know. Yeah. Now it was the world. And I thought, well, I wonder what happened to all the other, you know, countries where there's war going on, you know, and and things like that.
Sam Vigil:And it it just really it would make anybody think or it made me think, you know, and I think it would make it anybody think, well, what what what is really happening? You know? Well, how do you get to that point, you know, where where you're twentieth most violent? Yeah.
Abe Baldonado:Well and I think there's a a lot of issues. Right? We look at education. Education, we rank dead last. You know?
Abe Baldonado:Right. I think a lot of it when you see criminals, many of them are reading at a third grade proficiency level. You know? So a lot of it has to do with education is that we see without a very strong education system, you tend to have a stronger leaning towards people going down a bad road and ultimately becoming criminals.
Raul Vigil:Absolutely. I think, you know, the education, we're one of the poorest states Mhmm. In the nation.
Abe Baldonado:Which is crazy because we're not a poor state. Right? Like, we're not a poor state. I mean, we have abundant resources here. We we are flooding with money from our wonderful oil and natural gas production in Southeast And Northwest New Mexico.
Abe Baldonado:But government, to me, has failed. Like, our our elected leaders, our policymakers are failing. And, you know, I think we have to call it for what it is. Democrats have been in control for many decades, and we we've actually seen a decline. And we haven't seen you know, I always tell people, I'm like, it's hard to blame Republicans for the problems because Republicans have never been in full control of New Mexico.
Raul Vigil:So To be fair, yes.
Abe Baldonado:That's podcast and say Republicans are under blame because when I look at the data and I actually look at who's actually been running New Mexico since statehood, Democrats have primarily been in control, and Republicans have only had maybe three times where they've had, you know, the house of representatives, the senate, and the governorship. And so it's really hard to place blame and say, well, it's Republicans. They're they're they're not doing it, but that's not in fact the case. Unfortunately, we have to look at it. You know?
Abe Baldonado:And and now we see it even nationally with progressive movements in, like, New York and, you know, just some of the stuff I'm hearing on, like, criminals, like, just ultimately, like, they're not really a criminal. Something happened, and we need to treat them better. And we need to and I'm like, wait. What? No.
Abe Baldonado:Like, there's right and wrong. Exactly. Yeah. Like, at the end of the day, I mean, if if when you're born and raised, you are taught that there's right and wrong. There's good and evil.
Abe Baldonado:And, you know, if you choose one or the other, I mean, it's it's a choice you're making.
Sam Vigil:Yeah. And then just going back on New Mexico being yeah. I think I heard the figure like $64,000,000,000 something like that. Yeah.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. We're not a pure state. And and now, you know, we're hearing with the with the SNAP benefits coming up that a quarter of our citizens are on SNAP benefits. I mean, that should be shocking to people and not that people don't need it. I, you know, I welfare programs are great for folks who fall on hard times.
Abe Baldonado:We know that individuals will fall on hard times. But when it becomes a lifestyle or it becomes generational, it's not sustainable. When I think that, you know, almost 40 per like, you know, I think what? Almost 40% of our states on Medicaid, another welfare program. I mean, to me, that's not sustainable.
Abe Baldonado:And it's not that I'm saying kick these people off, but what I'm saying is it's not healthy. It's not healthy for our economic development. It's not sustainable for our future as a state.
Sam Vigil:Exactly. You know? And and we should be looking at having better economic development programs, you know, that companies to come in to do that so that we can get some of those people some meaningful jobs to pay well, you know, to to get off some of that giveaway type of programs that
Abe Baldonado:we off the streets. Right? Like, going back to, you know, our big conversation today, a life of crime.
Sam Vigil:Oh, yeah.
Abe Baldonado:You know, you think about taking people out of poverty. I mean, that's one way you combat crime. You you combat it through with taking people out of poverty.
Raul Vigil:Exactly. Exactly. 100%. And then getting back to, you know, we were talking about the the Democrats and Republicans and, you know, I think one of the interesting things that we talk about, especially me and my dad is, you know, born and raised here, and and it's almost ingrained that we should be Democrats. Yeah.
Raul Vigil:And sometimes for the longest time, I I know that that was what we weren't. But I'm telling you that after everything that's happened and the way things are going, you know, we started realizing it just the party doesn't align with our values that we're we're we're very conservative, you know, and I think most people are, but
Abe Baldonado:I think it's just Physicianics, specifically.
Raul Vigil:We're we're we're we're
Abe Baldonado:through our traditional values and through our religious beliefs as Catholics and Christians. I mean, you know, we're we're strong in our faith here in New Mexico, and it's a beautiful thing. And I I think you're you hit the nail on the head. I I remember growing up, a lot of the elders, you know, when I was little, I remember they idolized JFK. And I tell people today, that isn't today's Democratic party is not that of JFK.
Raul Vigil:It's not even close.
Sam Vigil:Yeah. A little story, you know, when after Jackie, I I I was a Democrat all my life, and I would almost straight Democrat, you know, every time I go to the cast my ballot, you know, that was and when Jackie was murdered, I thought, well, you know, I've gotta try to get ahold of my rep, my state rep, my, you know, my state senator. And I I wanna talk to the mayor, you know, to Yeah. See if I can be of some help with
Abe Baldonado:the Yeah. What can we do to fix this problem
Sam Vigil:that we're facing? Nobody would call me back. Wow. They wouldn't talk to me.
Abe Baldonado:That's so unfortunate. And people wonder why, you know, I've I've heard this from I have students who believe that voting didn't make a difference, and I was like, no. It does. Like, you have to remember your elected officials work for you. Like, they you don't work for them.
Abe Baldonado:They work for you. You elect them, and you could easily remove them from office if you just start paying attention. And are they doing their job? You know? And I wish I could say I'm surprised, Sam, that, like, they didn't call you back, but I'm also not surprised.
Abe Baldonado:They
Sam Vigil:I called the mayor. I talked to a couple of people there. They said, well, you know, we'll get back with you, you know, and I called maybe a couple or two or three times, you know, trying to kinda and I finally gave up. You know? I called Heinrich and nothing.
Sam Vigil:Wow. Never got nothing from him. You know? I talked to or rather left messages for a lot of the other state reps from my area and actually from out of the area too. The only one that called me back was Ortizipino.
Abe Baldonado:Oh, yeah. So Ortizipino.
Sam Vigil:He I left a message for him, and he called me back, which I I was really surprised, you know, because he's not even in my district. But I was calling anybody that because I wanted to be part of the solution better than the problem. You know? He called me back and we had a a conversation. I probably didn't agree with me, but I I have to respect him for
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. He listened.
Sam Vigil:Yeah. He listened. You know, I have some respect for him because of that, you know. But the rest of them, nothing.
Raul Vigil:Not
Abe Baldonado:that. And again, I think that's, like, important for people listening and watching this podcast is you have to pay attention to what folks are doing. And if they're not doing anything, you need to hold them accountable. The people we elect, like, if you're like, I think they're doing a good job, like, no. You need to find out, are they doing a good job or not?
Abe Baldonado:Have they done anything meaningful? Are they actually tackling the issues, or are they playing party politics and, you know, joining the status quo? And we need to vote them out if they're not doing their job, what we elect them to do.
Raul Vigil:We do. And I and I my concern is, like I was mentioning earlier, I think it's, you know, it's ingrained, especially in us Hispanics, that we have to be just vote Democrat all the time, you know, regardless. And and sometimes I feel like, you know, a lot of these politicians know this.
Abe Baldonado:And Yeah.
Raul Vigil:They're I mean, they're hey, hey, yeah, I'm good. What are they gonna do? They're gonna vote for me regardless. Right? Our states, you know, we we always talk about New Mexico.
Raul Vigil:It's it you know, being someone that was born and raised here, it's it's really sad and embarrassing to to see our state at the bottom of everything that's supposed to be good and the top of everything that's supposed to be bad. I know that's been said over and over and over again. But I I'm I'm starting to wonder is, are we just getting used to it? Is our community just getting is this the norm? I I don't you know, that's what's frustrating to me.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. Well and I think it's frustrating because we know New Mexico is a beautiful state. We are, like, rich in our culture and our traditions, and we are a melting pot of, you know, Spanish settlement and native American settlement. I mean, it's just, you know, mixing those cultures together along with becoming part of The United States Of America. You know, we probably have one of the best culture mixed cultures in New Mexico of just traditions that have meshed with everything that's happened in The United States history and New Mexico's history is just a blend of everything.
Abe Baldonado:And I'll tell you, you don't find it in other any other states. And we have it here, I think the frustrating thing is that we see that New Mexico is a beautiful place, but it has really grown in a lot of its problems. And it's frustrating because It's I saw a new study that showed the percentage of people actually born in New Mexico, how many of them are living in New Mexico, and it's around 50%. And I saw some people saying, oh, I thought this number would be higher. And I'm like, I didn't because we are the biggest exporter of our people because we've not created opportunities.
Abe Baldonado:We've not created prosperity here. I mean Exactly. If you're not working for state or federal job or maybe for one of the universities across our state, I mean, job selection is pretty tight. I mean, there's not a whole lot of private sector growth out there. And the people that are in those roles aren't leaving them because they're great roles.
Abe Baldonado:And so why would they leave it? So you're not seeing openings for people to move around and and, you know, get some career growth. So a lot of folks, you know, are stuck working for state government and federal government and some of the other public institutions, but, you know, we just we don't have that opportunity. So a lot of our people, I feel and and I had every opportunity to leave, and I'm glad I didn't because I want to stay here and make New Mexico better and help it out. And I'm hoping the ChiliWire helps with that.
Abe Baldonado:Just having conversations with folks like you on what can we do? What can what can we do to talk about this, but get more people talking about it? How do we get more because, you know, we know us three alone can do it in here. Like, this is great, but what we need to do is we need to add another ten, fifteen people saying, hey. Did you hear Sam or Will and Abe's conversation?
Abe Baldonado:Like, we need to start talking about this. You all need to listen to this.
Sam Vigil:Especially young people like you guys. You know? Old people like me were all you know? I
Abe Baldonado:we paid Sam a lot of money to call us Young. So, Sam, thank you very much. That $20 bill worked. So thanks for calling us Young. But, no, I I think you're exactly right.
Abe Baldonado:Younger people need to get involved. They you know? And again, I don't care if you're Democrat, Republican. Get involved. Have a conversation.
Abe Baldonado:And, you know, let's let's disagree. That's fine. But let's have a good conversation about it, and let's tackle solutions. And, unfortunately, that's I don't hear the conversation around solutions today. You know?
Abe Baldonado:And someone we had a comment on our ChiliWire one of our ChiliWire posts about, you know, we're attacking Tim Keller, they're like, well, people aren't getting get together and talking about solutions. And I'm like, okay. Well, yeah. Let's talk about solutions. But if he's the mayor, why is he not delivering the solutions?
Abe Baldonado:So we need to criticize him. We need to, you know, go on the record and say, hey, the mayor is just everyone's seen the commercials, I'm sure, across New Mexico, but I've made parks better. Like That's like, that that's not the fix. Like, that's not the solution to to crime, to education, to poverty, to homelessness. I don't think upgrading parks makes a difference.
Abe Baldonado:Like, cool. Does it look great? Yeah. But what did it do for the individual living down the street who is barely making ends meet?
Sam Vigil:Yeah. His problems are huge, you know, homelessness, crime, and I don't think he's made a dent on any of those, you know, and I don't think he can and I don't think it's gonna get any better if he's reelected again, you know, which is possible. He's a pretty well, he's a professional politician to begin with, you know, and that's all he's done all of his life. I don't think he's ever held a job outside of being a politically elected or or appointed type of job.
Abe Baldonado:Well, I even think about it now. The fact that he's even up for a third term, I'm like, I think we need some term limits. I mean, we need term limits all the way to Congress. I mean, I'm a I'm a pro term limits guy. I'm like, look, after after twenty years, hey.
Abe Baldonado:Let someone new. Know, you're coming in and
Raul Vigil:That is so spot on.
Abe Baldonado:But I think you're right. You know, another term of Keller, I I don't think it makes Albuquerque any better.
Raul Vigil:It's concerning to say the to be honest. I mean, but the way things are looking, I haven't looked at the polls. I don't know if you have that information, but something inside me tells me that he's gonna probably win again.
Abe Baldonado:We there have been polls and, Mark Roncetti and a few others have reported on these. Like, people do not like Keller. Like, he has a very high percentage that of people that are have a negative view of him. The problem is is that there's so many other candidates that people don't really know. And so they don't know who to vote for outside of that.
Abe Baldonado:They know they don't like Keller, but they don't know that any of the other candidates. So they're like, well, I don't know who to vote for. And, you know, with ranked choice voting elections, you know, they usually favor Democrats or incumbents like mayor Keller. And so I think a lot of the thought is that because of the split of the votes, the way it's gonna go is Keller may potentially win again despite the high percentage of folks not being in favor of him winning again. It's just, you know, then you go into a runoff and then you lose people right there.
Abe Baldonado:People don't go out to vote during a runoff. They'll vote the first time on election day, but to get them out and vote again is difficult. And so when you have a lower amount of people showing up, I mean, yeah, you run the risk of him getting there. But I I was shot I I wanna say it was close to 70%, maybe even in the sixties of individuals polled that didn't have a favorable view of him.
Raul Vigil:Right.
Abe Baldonado:Which which is shocking which is shocking to me is that, like, a majority of residents in Albuquerque are not in favor of Keller, but he gets elected again. Like, that would I would have to question everything. I'd be like, well, why? Like and, again, I think it goes back to, like, are we just tolerant now? Or are we just kinda, you know, hey.
Abe Baldonado:It is what it is.
Raul Vigil:And I think people just I I hope not either, but that's going back to what I said. I it makes me worried that we've just gotten used to the way things are, and it's just, oh, you know? Yeah. It's like, you know, it is what it is, and people throw their hands up in the air and give up. And that's exactly what I don't want to happen.
Raul Vigil:You know? Again, all of us are from here. We were born here, raised here, and we want our families to be prosperous here. That's the main goal. I don't want, you know, anybody else to be victims of crime or anything like that for sure.
Sam Vigil:Yeah. I heard I I I don't I can't verify it, but that Albuquerque was losing population. So I I don't know if that's true or not.
Abe Baldonado:I think New Mexico in general has either been stagnant or has declined in population. I mean, it's just economics. I mean, we don't have a whole lot here, so I think a lot of folks move to other states. And but I think that's I think during COVID, we saw a little bit of a tick of folks that were moving from the big cities coming to New Mexico because for a million dollars, you know, you drop a million dollars in California, you're in a two bedroom condo. But out here, you get a whole nice piece of land.
Abe Baldonado:And Yeah. So I think we saw some of that. But I think for the most part, New Mexico, Albuquerque has been pretty stagnant. And I I don't know how much growth Albuquerque has just because Albuquerque is kind of landlocked. Yeah.
Abe Baldonado:You know, I you have the Pueblos on each side of Albuquerque, so you really can't expand. And then to the West, have, you know, you have the Zia Pueblo. You also have Acoma and Laguna, and I know they own a big piece of land out there that belongs to them. And so, yeah, I don't know how much growth Albuquerque has, and that that's another problem. Right?
Raul Vigil:You you also you made a great point earlier, like, far as economic prosperity here, what what really drives the economy? I think it's if you're gonna It's only if you're gonna find a work in in government or, at the labs, for example, or in oil. And and maybe now because Netflix or some film industry is coming in. Yeah. But aside from that, what else can we do?
Raul Vigil:Right? So Yeah.
Abe Baldonado:I I mean, I think I had a good conversation with some folks around artificial intelligence. I think data centers will be pretty big and their reliance on natural gas is big. Think New Mexico could be a hub for that. I don't know. Given New Mexico's political landscape, if they'd allow that, I mean, environmental groups will come out and say, no way.
Abe Baldonado:You're gonna use all our fresh water and you're gonna do this and that, and it's terrible for the environment. So I think, you know, Democrats unfortunately won't allow for that to happen. But, you know, I look at Albuquerque was the Simi Valley once upon a time. Think about it. We had Bill Gates here.
Abe Baldonado:We had Jeff Bezos through Amazon. I mean, imagine if those two organizations had been
Sam Vigil:That's a great point.
Abe Baldonado:Kept here in New Mexico. But because we're not business friendly as far as the political policy goes, Not political, but the policy business friendly through policy where education is poor here. I I always tell people, I'm like, look. We have to fix our education system. We need to turn it around like, you know, Mississippi.
Abe Baldonado:We used to say thank God for Mississippi. Now we can't even say that anymore.
Raul Vigil:I don't think we can.
Abe Baldonado:And Mississippi stuck with a lot of the reforms that we were doing in the previous administration. And so when people ask, how did Mississippi turn around? I'm like, well, they did everything we were doing
Sam Vigil:Yeah.
Abe Baldonado:But we stopped doing. But they stayed course, and they actually added a few other programs to turn their education around. Mississippi is still a very impoverished state, but their education is turning around. I think with that, you might see the state eventually turn around too as far as poverty goes. That's just gonna take a few decades to see how that transpires.
Abe Baldonado:But I think we have to fix education because if I'm a big business, why would I bring my business to New Mexico if I have to go recruit in Texas or Arizona? Why don't I just set up in Texas or Arizona that's gonna have friendlier policies and better incentives for me to build my data center or my business there, and I can recruit locally. I don't have to go recruit out of state.
Raul Vigil:And and to piggyback off of what you're saying coming from a law enforcement perspective, You know, I I heard someone once say that you can't have prosperity without security. Yeah. And it's just so true.
Abe Baldonado:People want safe neighborhoods. They they
Raul Vigil:want. Yeah. So if you're a business owner, right, and you're looking to relocate, well, not only do you want a environment that's maybe tax friendly or business friendly or whatever, but you also want your employees to be safe. Right? You want your bill, your infrastructure, your capital, your everything that you have in your investment to be safe.
Raul Vigil:And you don't want it to be burned to the ground for lack of a better way of putting it. But how how would you know, I I kind of think about it as a business owner. Would I wanna go in there, you know, into a city that's having a lot of crime issues, you know, and then you make a great point about education. Where where is your talent gonna come from? Right?
Raul Vigil:So those those are two valid points that should be addressed, you know, especially when you're thinking about strategy. How are we gonna how are we gonna get our community where it should be? Because I know that we have some very talented people here And unfortunately, they do leave. Yeah. You know, I I think one of the things that it reminds me of is trying to find a doctor now, for example.
Raul Vigil:Yeah. I mean
Abe Baldonado:But you could find a trial lawyer. You could find a trial lawyer like any any quarter you turn, you're gonna find a sign of a trial lawyer. Like, you need to sue a doctor. They're there. And that that is right.
Abe Baldonado:Like and given and what frustrates me about that is that because we do have a significant population that is living below the poverty line, they can't advocate for themselves. They just can't easily get up and say, I'm going to MD Anderson in Houston or I'm going to the Mayo Clinic in Phoenix. Unless you have the resources available to you where you can do that and, you know, you could take off from work or you have a good health insurance so that you can go to Mayo or MD Anderson to advocate for yourself, I mean, you're stuck here in New Mexico. And if you can't find a doctor or a specialist, I mean, it's crazy to me. We we had a individual who works closely with us who hurt her knee, and she couldn't see a primary care physician for almost eight, nine months or something like that.
Abe Baldonado:Almost a year out. Like, it it was it's wild. Like and and and more doctors are leaving the state because our terrible medical malpractice but, again, I think these are just a number of issues that that go into it. And one of these days, I think people are gonna wake up and be like, wait. I can't get care for my illness or I can't see a specialist.
Abe Baldonado:I mean, cardiologists are hard to find now too. I mean, it's
Sam Vigil:You know, that I'm just thinking of that guy that the settlement was 400 and some million dollars from pure in Albuquerque. And and I'm thinking, well, maybe that's why a lot of the lawyers don't want to have sort of a cap on on on No. How much yeah.
Abe Baldonado:You take 40% or 30% of that those millions. I mean
Raul Vigil:Make a lot
Sam Vigil:of money.
Abe Baldonado:A good business. Right? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. But I always tell people, I'm like, you can't put a price on an emotional toll or you know, at the end of day, I think there needs to be protections.
Abe Baldonado:And any good doctor that I've ever talked to, they agree. We you do need a a very balanced medical malpractice landscape where bad actors will be held accountable, but you don't do it on the backs of the folks doing good work or who are in it for the right reasons or, you know, are not making these bad choices. And so there yes. There needs to be a consequence, but you don't do it to penalize the rest who are doing things in good faith. And that to me is the biggest problem.
Abe Baldonado:And I always tell people, I'm like, if you're injured, what's the difference between a million dollars and a $100,000,000? Either way, if you'd really suffered emotional damage or whatever it may be, there's no price you can put on that. It's it's and it's similar to to your your all's experiences that no dollar figure could ever replace what you guys ever went through. Right? Like, even if there was a settlement or anything for money, like, it it just it doesn't fix what happened.
Abe Baldonado:And that that's the same thing I think about from the medical malpractice is that if you are injured, you know, yes, cool. Your lawyer got you 400,000,000, but are you still suffering at at the end of the day? And so and not to say that that doctor was in the wrong and maybe deserved it, but, you know, when you're bankrupting hospital hospitals that, you know, that's the only lifeline for people living in rural New Mexico, It's a dangerous slope, and you have to be very cautious because eventually, you're gonna wake up one day and there's not gonna be a hospital or a resource available to you. And I think about, you know, people like my parents who live in rural New Mexico and access to health care is very difficult. And Oh, absolutely.
Abe Baldonado:You know, it's it's life and death. If you have to travel an hour or two hours away to see a doctor, that could be your life right there.
Raul Vigil:Yeah.
Sam Vigil:I remember we we we lived in Torrance County, a small village by the name of Torreon. Right on
Abe Baldonado:Oh, yeah. Torreon. Yeah.
Sam Vigil:Foothills Of The Manzanos. And we had a doctor in Mountaineer, doctor Saul. Maybe I shouldn't say this, but he he was the best doctor in the world. You know? You could go in there and he would treat just about anybody.
Sam Vigil:I don't think he ever kept any notes, you know, medical notes. Because I remember when we moved to Albuquerque and I I I wanted to get another doctor, you know, the
Abe Baldonado:They wanted your records. Don't have one. I've seen a doctor.
Sam Vigil:But if they would treat you in, they they he's the best doctor in my opinion. You know? He was really good. Super nice clinic. There's some I think what Presbyterian now, I think, has a clinic.
Sam Vigil:I don't even know if they have a doc nurse practitioner, I think, at Mountain Air or something like that. But it it it's scarce. You know? It's not the the type of medical facilities that you would like to have for people in the rural areas. You know?
Sam Vigil:It it it there's a great need for for hospitals and and clinics out there.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. But we need some common sense solutions.
Sam Vigil:We we
Abe Baldonado:need common sense policies where justice is available to you, but then there's also, hey. We're not gonna allow trial lawyers to wreak havoc, or we're not gonna allow repeat offenders to to roam our streets. There you know, there needs to be a mix of accountability, but also some solutions to just balance the scales. Right? Because I feel like on everything from crime to education to economy, the scales are just tilted like this now.
Raul Vigil:Right.
Abe Baldonado:And we need to kind of bring that back down.
Raul Vigil:Yeah. You you made a great point. I think I'm paraphrasing what you said, but to complain about things, you know, and say, okay, this is what happened. This is why, you know, either Albuquerque, the state of New Mexico, there's all here's all these problems. We we that's why we do what we do and and that's why my dad wants to keep Jackie's memory alive.
Raul Vigil:Absolutely. You know? To it's it's an honor of her, but we we don't want and I know my dad and especially Kevin, you know, don't want this to happen to anybody else. Yeah. You know?
Raul Vigil:It was it was a tragedy and and a life sentence comes with it. Right? Yeah. That's what that's what how my dad put it one time and and several several other people. But we we don't wanna just complain about it.
Raul Vigil:We wanna do something about it. And, you know, it's unfortunate that nobody returned calls except for the one person. It is unfortunate that our concerns were dismissed. But
Abe Baldonado:Do you feel like other families who have been victims of crime, that's why maybe they're not as vocal or maybe don't get engaged because they've just kind of lost faith in the policy making realm and just they just feel like, you know, we'll cope with it, but we really don't see an opportunity for change here. Yeah.
Sam Vigil:It it it gets to the point. I think we're, I wanna say forget it. I don't wanna any say anymore anything or do anything because it's very frustrating, you know, because you always believed that these people being open to at least talk to you. Yeah. They don't have to agree with me or with, you know,
Abe Baldonado:but But let's have a conversation. Let's try to figure out some solutions. Yeah. Like, hey, why wasn't this individual, this rap sheet behind bars before November 19? Be given all those crimes that happened.
Abe Baldonado:Why why was he not behind bars?
Sam Vigil:And that was my intent when I called the the mayor. You know? I thought, well, I wanna help. You know? I wanna be part of the solution to to the crime because crime was going up really bad.
Sam Vigil:I think Jackie was the eighty second or eighty fourth murder in Albuquerque that year. I I forget.
Abe Baldonado:That the year that it broke the record?
Raul Vigil:I believe so.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. I I know it's 2019 or 2020 around there. Like, it was
Sam Vigil:I think it was probably the following year.
Abe Baldonado:The following year.
Sam Vigil:Has already had already gone up substantially, you know, by by 2019. But that was my intent. I I I couldn't believe that, you know, you to me, you know, if you're an elected official, your job is to to represent the the whole community.
Abe Baldonado:Regardless, Republican or Democrat, you represent the constituents.
Raul Vigil:That's such a good point.
Sam Vigil:Yeah. Not not just a select group of people that that that's not good
Raul Vigil:It it policy. It made me wonder. I'm gonna I'm gonna put this out there. I it really made me wonder because of the circumstances. And at that time, sanctuary cities were a hot topic.
Raul Vigil:I don't if you remember. Yeah. It is. A hot topic.
Abe Baldonado:Like, I think 2018 to, like, 2020 was the big big boom of sanctuary cities.
Raul Vigil:Right. And and there was you know? So this is when president Trump too was also like, hey, what's going on with these sanctuary cities? You know, with I'm starting to notice that these sanctuary cities have higher rates of crime, and there were statistical data that was tagged along with that. And because of what happened, it makes me wonder.
Raul Vigil:Now, I can't prove this, of course, but it makes me wonder if it was intentionally ignored, you know, like people just didn't want to touch it. People didn't want to maybe people in office didn't want to maybe get involved because it was it was boiling over, you know. And because we're what I would consider a progressive state, you know, and most people or the the politics surrounding immigrant friendly or sanctuary cities is there, you know, and it's it's very popular like with with with the current mayor here, the governor and everything like that. You know, they didn't want anything negative reflecting on that particular their support of sanctuary cities, which is unfortunate because I think you said it best, regardless of your politics, you know, regardless if you're Democrat, Republican, and you're in office, you should be listening to everybody and you should be taking everybody's perspective into account, especially when something like this happens, when a tragedy this big has happened. You know, it took us going all the way to Washington DC to get something done.
Raul Vigil:Yeah. It was, again, thanks to president Trump. We I don't I don't know if anything would have happened if if he didn't get involved, to be honest with you.
Sam Vigil:My personal thinking was that if he hadn't gotten involved, this guy would have probably been gone to Mexico and never to be found again.
Abe Baldonado:Well, and that story right there, what what sticks with me is because you read the news and you see what people say about the president. They say he lacks compassion. He lacks empathy. He doesn't care about people. And what you've told me today is complete opposite.
Raul Vigil:Oh, is
Sam Vigil:that the He
Abe Baldonado:he was probably so compassionate with you all and the fact that he knew the case. He knew who you were. Yeah. But he wanted to help. Like, to me, that's compassion.
Abe Baldonado:The moment someone says, you suffered a great tragedy. What can we do to help? Like, let me put my resources on it. Like, that to me is compassion. Like, that to me.
Abe Baldonado:And so I I I struggle now because I I have like, I see social media and I get so frustrated because people are like, he's the worst. He's terrible. He doesn't care about people. But then I have you two who actually sat down at a table with him telling me, no. He cared.
Abe Baldonado:Like, he cared.
Raul Vigil:He did. And he does.
Abe Baldonado:And that to me, I think more people need to hear that story about our president who Yeah.
Sam Vigil:Cared. I I remember, you know, we we set up a stage, you know, a podium, two podiums, actually. One was for him and then he would call he called me up to go up there and talk for just a few minutes, three, four, five minutes, whatever it was. You know? And I remember I'll never forget this.
Sam Vigil:Well, as I was coming down after I talked, him telling me, you know, Sam, he says, we're gonna take care of this. And to me that and he did. That that's the the the thing. You know?
Abe Baldonado:That he followed
Sam Vigil:through. Followed through. A few days later, there was an FBI agent at my house, and it began to roll. You know?
Abe Baldonado:And I think most people, like, when they hear a politician say that, they don't believe they're gonna follow through. Like and I always like, I don't look at president Trump as a politician because he's not. Like,
Raul Vigil:Yeah. Exactly.
Abe Baldonado:He had he had no reason to run for president. You know? He was a multibillionaire. Like, he there was no other than, you know, seeing America do better Exactly. Yeah.
Abe Baldonado:You know, was He just cared. Right?
Raul Vigil:He actually cared.
Abe Baldonado:And And to risk it all. I mean, when you're a business focused individual and you have businesses, you know, it's a big risk to take on politics because you could ruin your business. Yeah. But also, you know, you move away from the business side and you go into the political side. So you kinda put that on the back burner.
Abe Baldonado:I mean, that's pretty selfless. And the fact that I think one thing that always sticks with me and I always tell people, I'm like, this guy's not getting paid. Like, he has turned down his $400,000 a year salary and donates it each year to to charities and, you know, to other causes. I mean, like, talk about selfless. Like, I wish more people talked about that.
Abe Baldonado:Like, you know, I I don't understand why people are just so strung out on just hating him that I'm like, there's some great things here. Like, who who what other president has been like, I don't want the salary. I wanna do I'm here for a reason. I wanna help America become great and, you know, and regardless of the controversial topics, like, this is what I believe needs to be done. We need stronger borders.
Abe Baldonado:We need, you know, stronger looks at immigration. We need to clean up our cities. We need to go after criminals. We need to just, you know, invest more in our our country. We need to, you know, fix problems here at home, like and, you know, the fact that he's created peace in The Middle East.
Abe Baldonado:Like, that's Yeah. That's like, wow. Like, you you know, it's not something that you see all the time. And so I I think it's just it's great. I'm excited for people just to hear that just your story and just and I gotta ask because, you know, we're coming up here towards the end.
Abe Baldonado:But, again, I feel like a lot of victims' families just don't wanna come out and speak. So, like, as as those individuals who are here being outspoken, like, what would you say to them? Like, why should they get involved? Because I think here at the Chili Wire, we want I want people to call me and say, saw your podcast with Sam and Raul. Our family was impacted.
Abe Baldonado:We wanna tell our story. Like, we wanna start telling people what's happening and how, you know, the system has failed us. And, you know, and I think a lot of times it takes people who have that bond to understand what they're going through to say, hey. You need to be outspoken. You need to get involved.
Sam Vigil:The only way that there's going to be that if hopefully, eventually, there'll be some changes by getting involved, you know, talking about what happened, speaking out the truth in terms of policies that that are bad for the for the community, people that don't respond to calls that that, you know, only talk to certain people.
Raul Vigil:Yeah.
Sam Vigil:People need to know that, you know, because they're supposed to represent everybody else. So, you know, and if you don't talk about it, well, you know, they just go on their merry way and and never change.
Raul Vigil:Yeah. Yeah. I think it's it's hard, I think, for my dad. And I know Kevin and and everybody else that love and cared for Jackie. But I think we've we're at a point where we feel it's our responsibility to to to keep it to keep our memory alive.
Raul Vigil:Right, dad? Absolutely. And And to make sure that we do our best to bring awareness to these types of situations. And and hopefully, we are able to influence some kind of change that will, you know, make our city and our state safer, maybe even nationally, you know, when it comes to border security. I think that's that's a huge deal, you know, and we can't emphasize it enough.
Raul Vigil:I think, again, just circling back real quick. We, you know, Jackie was an immigrant herself. We're not saying we don't want immigrants. We Yeah. We just want Well criminals to stay out of our country, you know, and we want our we want our our communities to be safe, you know.
Raul Vigil:We want it done the right way. And, you know, our, you know, our our family story is is something that needs to be shared and and I think it needs to be heard and and and people need to be aware of it because it's it's easy to get caught up in the politics and thinking that, you know, you're morally virtuous because you support it. But you gotta look at the whole picture of immigration. You have to look at the whole picture and see, okay, we have to be selective as to what or who rather is coming into our country. You know?
Raul Vigil:It's important that we screen out these criminals. We need to be aware of that.
Abe Baldonado:And what I see is that when I just having this conversation with you all is that you just don't want to see another family have to go through it.
Raul Vigil:Oh, no.
Abe Baldonado:You know? It's just It's
Sam Vigil:something that's so hurtful. So, you know, it's hard to even describe, you know, what what how it feels, how, you know, how what you have to go through. And and to think it's there's no end to it until you die. You know? That that's probably the the last.
Sam Vigil:But you you just have to live with it for the rest of your life. You know? A lot of people say you need to get onward, and you do. You know? You move on, and you you try to do the best you can.
Sam Vigil:But that hurt never goes away. Yeah. It's always there. And and I'm I'm sure that, you know, a lot of the the victims out there that hopefully, some of them probably feel about same way that I do. You know?
Sam Vigil:It's just not something that that that'll ever go away. Yeah. And and there there's a need for more conversations with victims, you know, in terms of when it comes to the judicial system, you know,
Raul Vigil:because Absolutely.
Sam Vigil:We should be hurt, you know. We people need to know that it's not an easy thing to take when when your loved one is taken from you for no reason at all. Yeah. And they need to listen.
Abe Baldonado:I hope. Yeah. One person can't
Sam Vigil:do it alone.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. Well, Sam, Raul, it's been an absolute pleasure and honor to have you on the Chili Wire. I look forward to having you both back on in the future and just appreciate you taking the time to advocate, but also to keep Jackie's story and life around and, you know, just honoring her legacy and using it to just see New Mexico become so much better and that you haven't lost belief that New Mexico can't be changed for the better. And I think that's important is that there's still people out there like myself and like you that believe New Mexico can be amazing.
Raul Vigil:Yeah. We're not giving up.
Sam Vigil:We're not
Abe Baldonado:gonna give up. Yeah. We're not gonna give up.
Raul Vigil:Yeah.
Abe Baldonado:Well, gentlemen, before we wrap up, I gotta ask because I always ask this of my guests. Red or green? Red or green chili? Red or green chili?
Raul Vigil:Say Christmas. Christmas?
Abe Baldonado:Green. Green. Awesome. Alright. We got
Raul Vigil:My fleet is safe.
Abe Baldonado:I'm usually green, but every now and then I go with the red. Well, Sam, Raul, thank you guys so much. And that's it for this week's ChiliWire y'all. We'll see you next time.