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Two successful entrepreneurs talk about manufacturing, lean principles, and the freedom they are pursuing in life and business.
lean built 100
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[00:00:00]
Speaker 2: Well, ladies and gentlemen,
Speaker 3: welcome to episode 100. Woo. Of, can You Believe It? We made it to a a hundred. I was, as I was walking out the door this morning, I said to my wife as I was picking up my coffee, I said, I'm, I'm really proud of us for keeping this up. Yeah. It's been two more than two years.
'cause we have missed a few weeks here and there and holidays and other stuff.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: A hundred episodes is Yeah. A milestone. The same way that they say, you know, X percent of small businesses fail in the first year. And then of those that survive, this other percent fails in the first five years. And, well, a lot of podcasts, my first podcast cycle start .
Uh, made it like five episodes and then just atrophied into non-existence. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And, and my first podcast did the same. It was, uh, what was it called? I barely remember. But yeah, and I felt like, back then it was maybe 2000 8, 9, [00:01:00] 10, something like that. , I even read, uh, well, some of my friends, my dear friends, they gave me this book, podcasting for Dummies.
it's funny to go back 'cause I literally saw it in a stack of books the other day and I just flipped through. And so much technology has changed. Like they're talking about like how to upload it, how to, you know, what file formats are, are best. Like you And I don't even care about the file format, it just streams through the internet, but yeah, it's been, it's been neat like having a co-host if I thought, you know, I thought to myself, if I ever do a podcast again, I'm gonna have a co-host just for the accountability sake and the encouragement, 'cause there's times I'm like, this is the last time last thing I wanna do is podcast right now.
But, you know, maybe we've punted a few times and, or there's times where I'm just excited and, yeah, podcast
Speaker 3: co-host, that's the way to do it. Well, thank you very much Jay. I appreciate co-hosting with you. It's been a ton of fun. . We have a bunch of questions from people who sent messages into the Lean Built Podcast on Instagram.
We're gonna go through those we didn't get to, we're not gonna get to all of them. There were some questions that were similar enough for each other. We're just gonna answer one of 'em 'cause they kind of overlapped. . Uh, Jay has heard a couple of these, but not all of them, so we're just gonna take 'em [00:02:00] in order.
Yeah. First one question for Andrew. Are there any specific process improvements you found in your sewing department that would maybe be non-obvious from a machinist's perspective? He's a mechanical engineer, has worked with aluminum and steel machine parts, but is gonna be doing some soft good stuff.
Sewing in soft goods is the wild, wild west, the same way that like a two by four is not two inches by four inches. . Nominal measurements in stuff in sewing world are aspirational at best. And so one of the areas where we still have a lot of improvement to make is figuring out. What our incoming inspection processes need to be on any kind of roll or sheet soft goods and fabrics, because there's just a lot of variation there that sometimes, especially the more you try to build precise jigs and fixtures and process, the more dialed you try to make it, the more variations in material thickness.
. And material width can really screw up your process. Like, oh, this little auto [00:03:00] roller feeder works great, except that the next roll of webbing is an eighth of an inch too wide. Yeah. And now it just jams. It does nothing but jam.
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah. When it comes to, when it comes to machining, like you and I, we we're working with, thousands or tents.
The closest we come is our vacuum gasket cord. Like it has a nominal, but then it has a very, very frustratingly wide manufacturer tolerance. And then we will reject it. Either if it's outside of that outright reject it, you know, exchange or if it's just, outside of what we recommend or what, kind of our internal tolerances, we literally just throw it away and go, yep.
Oh, well, we don't want that lot again. We specify it. So, yeah, it is frustrating. And it does affect, like what you said your processes and we're, we're having to gauge our vacuum gasket in a way that's like very low low impact. Do you guys have gauges like that? Like what causes you to you know, scrap something?
So we do check,
Speaker 3: obviously we're checking for the quality of weave on fabrics to make sure that there aren't any, like looped threads or anything that the weave is bad or warpy or weird. . Um, but we check width, we check thickness. Okay. But [00:04:00] sewing, in order to have a process you can walk away from, you specifically ask like, you know, how much can you just program things and then walk away from them and in sewing.
Really not that much. Mm. Thread phrase, needles, break things, snag stuff, jams. I mean, sewing machines are incredibly precise pieces of equipment. They're really cool and they've been around for a long, long time. Oh yeah. And mechanical sewing machines are amazing. Yeah. But there are a lot of little gotcha things and so it's less able to be set up and walked away from like overnight lights out sewing.
. In our shop is never going to be a thing. Okay. Next question. It just doesn't work. All right. Next question*. , I have a hard time retaining capital. I always see it as cash that can be used for the next piece of equipment, software or staffing.*
*How do you establish what your retained capital should be? Percentage of profits, multiplier of monthly expenses. What? . Yeah, *
Speaker 2: *Jay, *[00:05:00] *great question. So for many years I was probably in this I don't know, this mindset or just practice where, you know, I'm just gonna like sip off just a little bit of profits, the out of retained earnings for what I need to live.*
*And I would make a, a regular withdrawal, kind of like as a salary, but then, um, incorporating the company that caused me to just be an actual employee of the company. So I set a salary there, but then, you know, you, you're gonna have net profits left over and if you have a good year that's great, but it's gonna be a big tax bill.*
*So I would say probably roughly speaking. Half of it, gets reinvested into the company. The other half you just pay the taxes on and you just retain that money and it's post-tax dollars, which isn't ideal. Um, but for me it was one of those things where I said, well, I'm just I don't want to spend money for the sake of spending money.*
*I want to be strategic. Maybe there's something, some technology, a robot, a machine some type of opportunity that I do not see, you know, it's not in the crystal ball, but I do know that at least *[00:06:00] *I'm gonna have to have some of that cash on hand. So yes, bite the bullet, pay the taxes on it, retained earnings.*
*I tend to put it, you know, in, um, I'll still pull it out personally and put it into a high yield savings. . Just, just so you're not you're basically like offsetting inflation, you know, I think it topped out at about 5% or so, something like that. Um, *
Speaker 3: *there's a couple, couple different buckets that I think about this money in terms of there's money I need to keep just cash, liquid cash on one hand as a business, uhhuh for emergencies.*
*Anything unexpected disruptions, machine breakdowns, that kind of thing. That's just cash reserves. I want to have some kind of cushion. Do you, do you put percentages to these? I don't put percentages to these. Okay. I have just a general kind of comfort level. Yeah. And it needs to be enough to buy me time to work the problem.*
*So, you know, I remember when COVID hit and a lot of restaurants were like, yeah, we've got like one week's worth of payroll in the bank, and then we're out. And it's like, right, I don't want that. I want to have enough time to pursue whatever *[00:07:00] *means, or at my disposal to solve whatever problem it is. If it's supply chain disruption, if it's a forced closure, whatever it is, you know, we get hit by a tornado.*
*Who knows? Then there's strategic investments in the business. These are the things that are already on our roadmap in the future. And I might speed them up, do them sooner if I have more capital available to me now to make that investment. But we've talked about this before, like end of year taxes.*
*It's never a good idea to buy things you don't need. *
Speaker 2: *Yeah. It doesn't matter if you're, why especially Yeah. Especially if it's like December and you're trying to scramble and figure out No, absolutely not. Yeah. *
Speaker 3: *So don't buy things you don't need. . Getting out from under the tax liability is not a good enough reason by itself to spend the money on something that's not gonna be useful to you.*
. And then there's just opportunities to do nice quality of life. Things like, you could always spend a little more money on like hiring a food truck to come to work and provide lunch for all your staff on a Wednesday, or there's a bunch of different things you could do that use a little bit of that money in a way that is not a thing that everyone's gonna be like, [00:08:00] well you did this one time and now you have to do this every week.
.
But if you've got a little extra money to move around, you can do things with it that do make an impact, that do make an impression, that do improve the quality of life.
.
Yeah. And then just be, look, looking for little things around the shop that break down like today, finally after I bought these in 2021, my Sure bt one Bluetooth earphones that I use in the shop all the time.
The bullet.
Speaker 2: *Yeah. If there's something that I would emphasize as being, at least intentional, like I have a building payoff fund that I started just contributing to a set, set dollar amount. Not a percent is set dollar amount because I have a, the way it works in commercial real estate you get a loan on the building then it's, it's 25 year loan, but , it's amortized over 25 years.*
*Uh, balloon payment. Like they either expect you to pay it off in 10 years or you refi, most people refi. I don't want to do that. So I've been just consistently dropping that money, into a bucket. And that's not percentage base. It's just like we just have to do that. , Yeah. But intentionality, that's, that's the name of the game*.
'cause if you see a big pile of cash, uh, most humans are just gonna reach for it and grab [00:09:00] it.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Don't spend it on dumb stuff. Yep. You don't need a Lambo. . Uh, next question. *What are your life expectations for new machines? How do you plan around this and how often should you replace equipment? *
Speaker 2: *Jay?*
*So the financial answer is after you've fully depreciated them. But you know, that's not the practical answer. So you depreciate it, maybe it's over seven years, maybe a section 1 79. So it's not a big deal. For us, like we, we cycle out machines when they just become the odd man out. Like we still have a, a, a gosh, I think it's a 2015.*
*Yeah, it is a 2015 VF two that has the old control. It's not the next gen and it's just this odd machine, but it does a very specific thing and it's, it's, I don't know, unless there's a better opportunity to use that floor space, it just stays put. 'cause you're not gonna get much for a 10-year-old machine.*
*No. I mean, you, we will, I mean, ours are in pristine condition, but nowhere near what you paid for it. I definitely try and stay away from the mentality of, I think some people in the industry are kinda *[00:10:00] *like machine collectors. Like they don't buy fancy cars or, you know, have, you know, really cool trucks or vehicles.*
*But they have like the blingy type machines. I try and stay away from that. Like the our haws machines and our Doosan lathes are just like salty. They're like Camrys, you know? . And you just know you're gonna, you, you know what to expect with them. And then it's, and then on top of that, you stack like really skilled, great machinists and they're gonna make great parts.*
*I would say like your tooling has a much better thing to do with it than making when it comes to making great parts. 'cause you don't wanna see, you know, feed lines, things like that. So we kind of splurge on that type of stuff. But life goals, I don't know. I really don't, um, not life goals, but life expectancy.*
*Like, how long? It's just how long do machines last for? Yeah. Life. Yeah. I don't know. What I don't want is to be the shop where a newcomer comes in and goes, oh my gosh, they had so many old machines. They were junky, they were dirty. So you can, we, you know, our oldest machine, 2050, it's actually a 20. 14 Doosan lay, that *[00:11:00] *still looks pretty new.*
*I mean, people have some really gross looking machines. It's fine, it's shop life, you know, but for me, I just think it's the perception that has that mental effect on the people that walk in first and foremost, the employees. . I think that has more of an impact than any financial or, the use type of metric.*
Speaker 3: *Yeah. An an old machine if well maintained, clean, well lubricated, not rusty, not all beat up, like the buttons aren't all cracked off, like . If it looks like it's been cared for, that's a totally different thing even than a relatively recent machine that obviously appears to be neglected. Right. Yeah.*
Uh, for us, I still have the first Speedo that I bought in 2015, so it's just now hitting 10 years. . We still get a ton of good work done on that machine. I see. No reason to replace it. But there, in a lot of industries, like in uh, farming, like big combines and things, there's a whole multi-tier market for new and used equipment where certain kinds of farms buy new equipment, like .
Every 36 months. . [00:12:00] And they use it for 36 months and then they resell it at a known markdown to other businesses that are sort of below them in the food chain . That can then afford the 3-year-old low mileage, lightly used big ag machine. Yeah. And then it gradually works its way down. And it does seem like that there is a, a value to that in the market.
Certainly when you buy a brand new machine, the same when you, when you buy a new car and you drive it off the lot, you take a huge hit on the resale value. . Sure. The second it's installed in your shop, it's worth a lot less. . Yeah. But if you're an actual business. You should be able to get outsized gains.
Yeah. Out of having the latest technology in that machine.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think if you, well,
Speaker 2: . I think of two machines we've gotten rid of because they bugged us and we have the mindset of fix what bugs you, continual improvement. One was just a delayed, and then another was a, it was a super, uh, mini mill, super minim mill two that just, it just bugged us.
It was, it was odd and that mini mill had problems, but that were [00:13:00] intermittent. So that's a better reason than any financial thing. Or like a planned sale after 36 months for us. Yeah.
Speaker 3: *Yeah. But I could see, like, if there were new technologies coming out, like a 20-year-old CNC machine right now, a 20-year-old machine would've been.*
*Early enough that really, like the internet of things and everything being networked just wouldn't really be, those features wouldn't be in that machine. *
*. *
*Right. You could try to find a way to retrofit things, but I've never had any interest in retrofitting anything. . I don't wanna be retrofitting.*
*Yep. I like collecting interesting old things. . Small, interesting old things, but I have no interest in trying to make my living using equipment that has to be retrofitted to do the job I needed to do. Yeah. So that's our take on equipment, life expectancy and replacement. Next question. *The founder of Costco is quoted as saying, anybody who is successful and doesn't understand that they had some good fortune along the way is a fool.[00:14:00]
*What do you think the biggest piece or pieces of good fortune are that helped shaped your respective companies? I got an easy one for me. . Uh, obviously the defense gun holster, concealment industry. Is kind of inversely correlated to the relative stability of the social fabric in our country.*
*. When things get scarier or more uncertain, sales go up for us. . There's no question that 2020 with the various kinds of civil unrest and also the uncertainty of COVID and the risk of there being a more substantial societal breakdown. That definitely did supercharge our sales for a while.*
*We, we had a steady growth curve that was clearly above the trajectory we had been on in 20 17, 18, 19. . And we happened to be positioned well to ride that wave and get over the top of it and not get drowned by it. But there's no question that that had a major impact on our ability to scale into this *[00:15:00] *building.*
*. To get the new equipment we put into the space operational and to keep it busy enough. To then stabilize at that next level up of volume of production and and size of staff. . So that's mine. *
Speaker 2: How about you? Yeah. I just think back to the, when I got into manufacturing early two thousands, uh, 2001 to be specific you know, I was in a business park with other there's four other machine shops , they, everyone kind of had their hand in, in the defense industry, kinda like what you're talking about.
And the, the same back then was, our business is war and business is good, you know, which is kind of sad, but in a way, but . It just, I, if there's a, there's a huge government, uh, military contractor here in Simi Valley. They retired and closed up, but the work that they were doing for the private sector, they just pushed it out to all the other shops.
And for me, I was thinking about this the other day, this is the first time I've heard this question, but I actually was reflecting on it how, you know, one of those fortunes, like one of the blessings God gave me was to be born into a family that was in. Manufacturing number one. And number two was in a business park at 2, 2, 3, 5 First [00:16:00] Street with four other machine shops around me that I was just this, you know, young 20 something year old just going around saying, Hey, how do I cut this?
What do I do with that? One guy in particular, uh, Kevin Cashman he sold a business that was, it still exists today. It's called Black Diamond. He was a apps engineer at Haws and he had done all the heavy duty testing, crash testing at HAWS in the day, you know, and I was running, I bought like a volite three inch long inch and a half diameter three insert, like, head mill, 'cause I thought I bigger's better.
Why would anyone buy small tools? You know, and those solid carbides, what if they break, you know? , And I was feeding it in my mini melt, like something like 1500 r maybe a thousand RPM 'cause that seemed like smoking fast to me. . At like eight inches a minute. And I said, Kevin, can you tell me?
'cause it doesn't quite sound right. You know, and he's like, oh, lemme see this ho, hold on. He leaves, comes back like 10 minutes later, he comes with a sheer hog and he spins up to 6,000 rrp m the max RPM, and starts feeding it like 150 inches a minute. I'm like, [00:17:00] oh my gosh, what is he doing? Like, does my insurance cover this machine?
Crap. It, it was just, it was like this rooster tail of aluminum. It was amazing, right? So yeah, that was something like if I, if I were in the okay, I'm not throwing your area under the bus, but if I were in the the Midwest, I wouldn't have that kind of density of that knowledge. And even if I was next door to a machine shop who says that person would be very generous with their time, which these four machinists were.
Yeah. So, yeah.
Speaker 3: How about YouTube?
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: If you've been, if you've been a machine shop 25 years before YouTube.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So,
Speaker 3: so
Speaker 2: you
Speaker 3: does high density work holding,
Speaker 2: *get out there to the masses. Okay. So when I started, there was no YouTube, right. So I had to learn machining from those people around me. And then, you know, I had a pallet system, a pallet retention system.*
*The PRS that didn't move a lot because it, it was like the big advertisement was either you advertise in print, which was very expensive*, or you got a page in the Thomas Register. I was trying to do Gorilla marketing, so that's why I did a podcast. But as an early adopter, just more people didn't really [00:18:00] know how to listen to podcasts.
You know, I'm, I'm throwing everything at the wall hoping something stuck. And it was just a series of maybe relationships, oh, my, my original first customer bought two PRSs. . And that was a huge cash injection, you know, 'cause I was doing job shop work and now it's like, wow, I sold this product for two, two of 'em, they're $2,500.
Yeah, that was just, it was like, I, it was literal word of mouth, my word from my mouth. Uh, but no, YouTube's huge. And I do think in this next generation it is gonna be ai. I think that's *gonna be the thing that answers our questions. *
Speaker 3: *For me, it's Instagram. I don't do a whole lot with YouTube, but Instagram has been a phenomenal resource.*
*Yeah. The number of people that I've met, that I've talked to, learned from, asked questions of, that are in my Rolodex of people that I can call on if I have a problem or . Or, or an area where I just don't know where to start. That's an unbelievable resource. And I still remember being at my *[00:19:00] *first IMTS and showing one of the guys who worked for Modern Machine.*
*Shop magazine, I think I was showing him Instagram and it's like scrolling through. I was like, check this out, look at this. And oh, I love the stuff that this guy posted. Can you believe the service Finish on that and check out this shop full of Okumas and just all this stuff. Just scrolling and scrolling.*
Speaker 4: *Yeah. *
Speaker 3: *And he had no idea about any of it. He hadn't seen any of it. *
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: *And without that network, if I were trying to learn all this stuff on my own and figure it out through trial and error and didn't have access to, it's like playing Who wants to be a Millionaire? And my audience is an audience full of experts.*
*. And I can ask the audience, and they're all experts in this thing that I need to do. . That's amazing. And I don't take that for granted at all. If I had tried to start this company in the eighties or nineties. I wouldn't have, *
Speaker 2: *well, you and I, we met through Instagram. Yeah. I think we met in person in 2018 at the MM Hub event that I was at, yep. That you and I were at. And then, you know, in Instagram, I don't have as much time as I did. We got on in 2015 and it was very, like, it was healthy. Like, there's not a lot of criticism. Like you see *[00:20:00] *a post and you're like, I wouldn't do it that way. You just move on. You would never say, I wouldn't do it that way.*
*You're, you ate it, you know, like you get on YouTube. But, uh, no, it was a really healthy, healthy kind of a community. I really cherish those early days. *
Speaker 3: Next question was, what is something that you've bought or done in your company that goes against all your lean thinking, but that you wouldn't be without?
Wow. . I'll, I'll take this one first. Okay. Crazy answer. Okay. My Matsuura. So the Matsuura is not opposed to lean thinking necessarily. I was talking with Chris, my programmer today as we were working on this new setup for *these new parts. We're running this week on the Matsuura, but lean and Pull are great for fulfilling demand that already exists.*
*. And yet the world requires people to look out ahead of what's adjacent and see directions for *[00:21:00] *things that don't yet exist, for which there is no demand. The famous example is Henry Ford saying, if I'd asked people what they wanted, they would've told me faster. Horses lean wouldn't necessarily have gotten the leap from horse-drawn carriages to automobiles.*
*. Necessarily. The the method doesn't dictate that you will always make the correct leap to the next paradigm. *
.
*And so there are always going to be inflection points in your business where you look ahead and say, knowing what I know about lean, this is the direction I want to go. This is the major semi unjustifiable step that I need to take right now to be there to apply lean to the things I wanna do in the future.*
*So for me, the Matsuura, that was a big leap forward. That was not a response to a large critical mass of existing demand that was going to keep that machine busy from day one. *
.
*A lot of *[00:22:00] *companies go out and they get a contract, they get an order, they do something, and then they go buy the machine to make it.*
*This was the opposite of that. *
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, I'm racking my brain. I I would say it's probably in line with what you're talking about.
If we were on the Business and Machine podcast, we would call a preparatory purchase. probably some of my robots, I think. Well, I did make a mistake purchasing a UR 10 robot thinking it would be my first like, dependable employee. And it wasn't, it, took time away from me and I had to sell it at a loss and came back.
I think like the HAWS pallet robotic pallet loader. I think that's one of those things I'm like, I just like automation. I think it's the future. We know that the demand will catch up. And it's not, it's not demand based. It's process based. Like we don't, I want, like I was just telling someone I demand it.
No, I was telling someone the other day, like, we just, I feel like we have like a really, at this stage, like today as of recording, we have a really elite team of employees here. I mean, good culture, all that good stuff. And I do think that it's, like I want to use them for the right [00:23:00] purpose that aligns with who they are.
And I don't think, like, just grinding it out in front of a machine, I don't, I think that's a bad use of, of who they are. So I'd rather have 'em be Welcome to Pearson.
Speaker 3: We holding, here's your Kurt Vice handle, your 40 by 23 Xs Mill is over there. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, that's not who we wanna be,
Speaker 3: not what we want.
Speaker 2: No. So I'd, I'd probably say some of those cooler things. Uh, I definitely am a early probably an an early adopter of most things in life, and so I'm okay with that and, and the struggles that go along with it, and yeah, I'd probably be along those lines. Nothing, nothing specific though.
Speaker 3: *Early adoption is big upsides and big downsides. You make some really good calls and some really wrong calls and you, you pay for some of them and you earn a bunch of experience advantage. First mover. Next question. What gave you guys motivation to produce your own products? I have every resource to produce a product.*
But I get so busy making other people's parts, I just cannot put my head down and brainstorm a product.
Speaker 2: Mm. I'll go first 'cause I, I know this. so again, growing up in a [00:24:00] manufacturing family, just watching my parents have a precision sheet metal shop that was always PO based. They were just contract manufacturers.
*Um, my dad actually made a vibratory deburring machine. A tumbled deburring with media and everything like a Bur king. . That it was awesome. He, everyone he built, 'cause it's sheet metal enclosure, that's what he did. He sold. and he said they're expensive back then. And this was in the, you know, mid eighties that he was selling them.*
*But he said that it was just like every PO that rolled in just stole him away. It just took his time. And I just remember just kind of filing that away, like, and just the stress that I would see them go through just, not just in business, but in their marriage. They're, they're happily married now. Nothing.*
*They're super great. But it was just one of those things that I just didn't want for my life. And I always wanted to think, um, of a product that could be machined. Actually one, the very first product I started making was a suspension mountain bike suspension upgrade link that you could just drop onto a specialized FSR.*
*And I just thought, man, that is so crazy. I took this rpy some material and I cut it into a *[00:25:00] *shape, and now the value is like 10 times more than the material. That's awesome. And that was the fire for me. And also part of my story was I was also doing contract manufacturing just to make ends meet. And I had that all in moment where I, I it's, burned into my brain where I had these dear John letters to my five customers, and I'm just putting in this blue USPS box and letting it go.*
I'm going, dude, if I don't stop making parts for other people, I will never, at like at like $50 an hour, I will never be able to make the components that I want for my products at 500 an hour. That was my complete mindset. And so that's a big motivator. You just have to, cut ties , and go all
Speaker 3: in.
*There's a good question that relates to that later. We'll get to for me, this question of how do I get motivation to produce my own products? I have never struggled to have ideas. I have tons of ideas, I have hundreds of ideas, more than I actually execute. This is one of the places where 3D *[00:26:00] *printing is so helpful for me as a tool to allow myself to quickly and cheaply scratch the itch of wanting to create a specific thing or try an idea for a certain thing, whether it's a jig, a fixture, or a tool holding thing, whatever it is being able to really quickly and cheaply cat it up, print it out, test it out, and then go, yeah, that didn't work.*
*That was a bad idea. . Toss it. I'm out five bucks, couple of hours of unattended time on the 3D printer, and I move on with my life. . But for me, actually, the bigger challenge is learning how to say no to Okay. Opportunities. *
Speaker 4: . Yes.
Speaker 3: *And. And accurately both accurately judge which ones have big potential.*
*. Ozzi says, it's kind of a crass way of saying it, but he says, solve rich people's problems. They pay better. Yeah. . And the idea that if you're gonna have a hundred clients and those a hundred clients are all gonna be billionaires, 'cause you solve a problem that only billionaires have *
.
*You're gonna make a lot more money *[00:27:00] *doing that than having a hundred clients who can only pay you 10 bucks for the solution for whatever their problem is. Yeah. . But the ability to judge where the real opportunities are and then the self discipline to say no to myself, right? . A conversation I have oftentimes when employees come to me with a question like, Hey, why don't we make what could we make this thing?*
*Or what if we made a thing that did this or this? And I don't ever want to get into the habit of just saying, no, we're not doing that. But I almost always say, we could make that. Here's why it's not a priority. Here's why we're not doing that right now. Right. Like within, with the range of equipment we have, we could make almost anything we wanted.*
. *Like we could make anything within reason. Yeah. That would fit inside our machines. We could make, but I would rather be really, really good at one or two high value things, then be pretty okay at 30 things. *
Speaker 2: [00:28:00] Yeah, absolutely. No. So we've been, um, reviewing with the team six types of working genius. I feel like we did that in episode one or two, which is fantastic.
*And for me, I'm an inventor, discerner, so I have no problem creating ideas. I actually enjoy, if I went on vacation, a dream vacation would be on the beach with a laptop, designing things. Go back to the hotel room, print them out, play with them. And then, but at the same time, I've developed a very, like, almost like a hypercritical spirit of discernment on my own designs because I know that designs, like I've said, they're sweet.*
*Nothings, they whisper little, kill your darlings. You're, you're so smart. Look at what you create. It's a million dollar idea. And I just go, no, no, no, no, no, it's not, let's be realistic. It's the first iteration, you know, and that's why I've said before, I design everything three times from the ground up.*
It gets better and better. 'cause I'm using, I'm building off my own experience. So yeah. I would say that you are an inventor to Cerner also. I don't know if that's how you I'm actually a
Speaker 3: tenacious inventor. Ooh. I like that. Tenacity and invention are my two. Yeah. I like that. Good. [00:29:00] I've also had the advantage of never having a job shop that was so busy with other people's work that I had to step away from money to create new things.
Yeah. Right. I. Getting into this slowly, like I, the first few years I was machining things, I was also working as a school teacher. I wasn't making a lot of money at either thing, either machining or school teaching, but I was not having to turn away profitable work on the machines to tinker around with ideas that might not come to anything.
Yeah. I
Speaker 2: asked my dad one time, dad, why didn't you go all in with the, the tumblers? And he said, Jay, because the money was just too easy and it was too good. I just couldn't part with it, you know? And . Yeah. I get it. It's, it's comes down to that
Speaker 3: next question closely related, how do you decide which products and opportunities are worth pursuing and which ones are better left for another time?
Speaker 2: Ooh. Okay.* So let's take our Vice Palette, which is a working title. It's gonna be renamed, but the Vice Palette 2019, that's when we started cooking it up. And it just got better and *[00:30:00] *better where it's, it's gonna go live here pretty soon. I knew it was something that was needed for me. I'm always asking the question.*
*What problem does this solve? And the vice palate is not just another widget vice, you know? It is, it's, it solves a problem you'll see when it goes live. But yeah, it is one of those things where you just, if you're gonna go into business to make spinners, now there's some very successful guys that got started, you know, in, in the mid two 2018, making spinners, you know, widgets.*
*And that was fine. but, to build a business that stands the test of time, you do have to solve a problem that I think is, is a must do. And then really get good at just managing the marketing, the production, all the processes behind that. but yeah, solving problems, I'd say that's number one for *
Speaker 3: *me.*
*I think about three, three basic things. The first one is, do we have anybody in the company who's really passionate and already an expert about this thing? Because without deep expertise ourselves, we're never gonna make the best a world-class version of a thing if we're amateurs who are *[00:31:00] *just dabbling in that thing.*
*So I'm like, there are a lot of things that we could make that I go, I'm not interested in making that and I'm not gonna be motivated to do the work to become an expert on that. . Right. The second thing is, does it actually align with the equipment we already have or would we have to expand? Would we have to take a side quest on the equipment side to add new capabilities that are only relevant to this one thing?*
*If we can do the whole thing with tools and equipment and processes we already have, I'm way more interested. That's a green light to consider, but if it's like, oh, we'd have to buy this and then we have to buy a powder coating oven, then we have to do this, and then we have to do, I was like, ah, I don't know about that.*
*. Those kinds of investments, especially if they're not generally useful, if they're not something we already do and they're new processes and new we have to learn that's a pretty big yellow light verging on a red light. And then the last thing is, is this a fat or do I see this being a product or a space that has long-term, viable, sustainable growth in it?*
*. Because you can make, *[00:32:00] *get rich quick money, like you mentioned on Sge thinners in 2017. *
*. *
*But for most of the companies that dabbled in that, it was a brief wave that they rode one time. *
Speaker 5: *. And *
Speaker 3: *they made money on it, you know, make hay while the sun shines, and then had to move on to other things quickly.*
*Yeah. And couldn't build a really long-term sustainable 'cause I'm more interested in I'm interested in things that we can make for 20 years. We're not gonna make the exact same version of the thing 20 years from now, but not things that are gonna be obsolete, non-existent. Just gone. Yeah. Right.*
. Next question. What's a good strategy to implement Lean principles in my business with the least amount of pushback from seasoned employees? Where to start?
Speaker 2: . I made a whole video about this in that video. It's called, I think Lean where to Start. I think that's the title I. I did tell a story about when I went to a customer that they kind of recruited me to come in and say, Hey, we're, kind of revamping our [00:33:00] shop.
*Uh, we want to implement your products. Let's chat. it was an outside, it was a hired gun. It was a guy that's brought into, unify this company. And as we were talking, he gave me the tip that you start with the complainers in the company. So it has nothing to do with seasoned veterans.*
*It has nothing to do with like, any of that. It was the people that complained because at least they're mentally engaged and at least they see what's wrong. We would call these wonders in this . Six types of working genius and they were vocal about it. So, I've had people over the years that have been vocal about what they like and don't like.*
*I've had people that are very meek and just like put their head down and work hard and are dream employees. But really like saying, Hey, you know, you complain a lot about a lot of stuff here. I'm gonna harness that 'cause that's kind of like a, a weird superpower. You and I are gonna embark on this thing together.*
*I actually got very fortunate, so John was my first employee. John Clifton been with me for over 10 years. And, he is, I say this respectfully, he is a complainer. He is a wonder. He sees what *[00:34:00] *is wrong, what is broken. That's what you want at the beginning. You want someone that sees things and wonders how could, why are we doing it this way?*
*How could it be better? And for him, you know, we weren't talking in this capacity, uh, but it was, it was one of those things where he could see what was going wrong. And when I sat him down and we watched the, shop tour video of Fast Cap with Paul Aker version 1.0, 'cause he sent a few since then he turned, and it was a, I'm pretty sure it was a 13 minute video.*
*And he turned in the swivel chair. We were in this, you know, our meeting room. And he said, we gotta do that. That's gonna fix so many of our problems. And that was the birth of Lean for us. So a lot of times you think, oh, I'm, you know, I'm gonna try and do this thing, announce this process, or, new way of thinking and, and hope that people get on board.*
*It's like, no, no, no. You have to actually start with the problem and say, Hey, we are struggling here. I am here to give you tools to help your job go better. Because there's, remember we've talked about profit centric and people-centric lean, you and I both practice people-centric lean. So for me, I go, let's say, *[00:35:00] *um, Hey Alex, I see that you're, you keep doing this thing.*
*You've voiced to me that you it's problematic. Let me print something out a little tool it'll holder, you know, and that, that'll work. Or another guy that used to work for us, Kyle, very much like a wonder and a very vocal annoyingly vocal com complainer to me. And I just said, look, dude, fix it.*
*You're complaining about it. Fix what bugs you learn the 3D printer learn fusion and this, this guy printed most. Designed and printed most of the 3D printed tools around the shop in the two and a half years that he was here that we still use to this day. And because he is like, I'm gonna fix what bugs me.*
*And now he wouldn't use that terminology, but that was the mechanism for which we implemented that stuff. *
Speaker 3: *So my tip to avoid pushback would be you have to lead with sincerity from the top. *
*You have to be authentic and you have to model what you want them to do. You can't ask them to do a thing you're not willing to do yourself.*
*That's right. And I think it really starts by talking *[00:36:00] *candidly about defects. And if you're leading with humility and you're starting with your defects mistakes, you've made bad parts, you've made problems, you've caused, and then you apply lean solutions to those and fix those processes in front of everyone that changes it from it, it doesn't sound believable if you say, I wanna make your work* *easier.*
*What they hear is, I want, I wanna make, I want you to make my company more profitable. . But if you say, I wanna make your work easier, I wanna make it less frustrating. Here's an example of a thing that I screwed up yesterday. Here's what went wrong. Here's why. Here's the missing piece that doesn't exist in this process yet, and here's how I'm going to apply a solution and fix it.*
*So the process is better. Yeah. Starting today. Yep. You will get pushback. There are some people who like to complain about anything no matter what it is. Right. Uh, it can be a free hot lunch and they will complain about it. *
Speaker 4: *Yeah. *
Speaker 3: *And you have to *[00:37:00] *know yourself there. Lean, uh, my, my friend David Quick, who coaches my Vistage chairs, my Vistage group likes the analogy of like, you want your business to be magnetic, a magnet, you want it to attract certain people and you want it to repel other people.*
*. *
*And if you move in the direction of implementing lean. And you sustain it over time and you lead with humility and sincerity from the top. It will repel. It may repel some people you already have. They may end up leaving your company because they don't wanna be working in that. *
Speaker 2: Yeah. And that's okay.
You know what? That's great. That's great. That's what you, you want, that's fantastic. Yeah. So, so we had a guy at Piccola Tiny Homes that we had all these processes, whether it's like a framing or a finishing or a painting. And so we had lots of tools and, and some of the tools crossed over some, some of them, like in a 12 week tiny home build.
You would only use it for about 8, 7, 8 days, you know, a little over five business days. And then it would just go [00:38:00] in, in the depths of like some cabinet. So I brought this idea of, a, a baker's rack, you know, Baker's rack . With all these pans and trays. Okay. This is gonna be a process tray. When we go to do baseboard, you pull out, here's the nailer, here's, you know, all the trim stuff, the guides.
this one guy, um, it was funny 'cause we were using it for about two or three days and he wasn't there when we announced that. I had, purchased these baker's racked and, we were having kind of this like, um, I can't remember the lean term, but it was kind of a review on the shop floor, on the GBA to talk about it.
And this guy who was a complainer I would say that he's a complainer, but not the wonder, like the good type of complainer. He says, man, I've been using these baker's racks for the past two days and this is the stupidest freaking idea I've ever had this dumbest tool I've ever had to use. Whoever thought of this was smoking crack, and everyone's like sweating bullets.
'cause everyone else knew that it was my idea. Now I'm really glad that he threw that out. Like he's a jerk. He doesn't work there anymore, but that he threw that [00:39:00] out. If it would've been anyone to my left or right, like probably, nine outta 10 guys would be totally crushed for me. I'm like, Hey, he gets to criticize this.
He needs to criticize it with correction and with professionalism. And so I ended up, uh, going up to him later and I said, Hey man, I just gotta let you know, like, I hear you about that. What I want to do is I wanna improve on this. 'cause I do think this is the way to go. Talk to me about your struggles.
Well, when they get weighted down, they're like almost impossible to pull out and you have to pull out each one Teflon tape, see what's on it. Yeah. But this guy, he wasn't that that advanced about that, you know, so, so he's like, you gotta pull each one out. I said, okay, well first of all, why don't we just buy another one, another rack so that there's like a good decent amount of space in between each one.
And I'm gonna 3D print a bunch of like tray labels that you'll just see, or color code 'em. Oh, okay. We'll try that. Yeah. And I did say, you know, we'll do some Teflon tape on the bottom and we'll make a little locking thing so it doesn't slide out when you're rolling it across the shop floor.
I said. Now the other thing is [00:40:00] you cannot speak like that. You got lucky that it was me. Most people would if you knew that it was me, you'd get fired on the spot. That's disrespectful. I'm not like that. Okay. I take a path of humility, but you can't disrespect your coworkers like that or criticize their ideas.
And that guy ended up like, self exiting, like within six to eight weeks. It just wasn't the place that he was meant to work at. And he was, he came from construction and is rough and tumble type guy. And there wasn't an alignment there. And I said, yeah, you can go back to traditional framing. That's, it's not the place for you.
No problem. Next question.
Speaker 3: What is your favorite or most game changing lean idea improvement or concept that you've picked up from your co-host? . What have I ripped off from Andrew? Basically? Yeah. What,
Speaker 2: what ideas, what things have been prompted by our discussions that you've used? Uh. I mean, the first thing, the practical ones I'm thinking of is the 3D printed hex things with on the do end [00:41:00] cabinet on the Doon.
So good. So also some of the little things like the trinkety things like, uh, there's a key for a compressor and, uh, I think I had seen like some, some type of thing where like you need the special key where you look around find needs to be, where it's, where it's located, that's where it should be located.
So put it where it's needed. Little things like that. The one that I'm drooling over that I still have not implemented, 'cause I don't have the courage to ask you give me the code is your printing fulfillment center with the cameras and all that stuff. I mean, that's so cool. We'll, we'll talk, we'll talk.
Okay.
Speaker 3: There's some, there's some cool stuff happening there.
Speaker 2: Yeah. 'cause I think, I think that's worthy of like, you could sell that, I would be first to buy it. We are, we
Speaker 3: are intending to sell it. We'll
Speaker 2: talk. Great. Yeah. It's
Speaker 3: amazing. Uh, for me, Using pokey oak trays. And I remember the, one of the first things that really made an impression on me was seeing your Pearson boards when I think, I forget if it was Saunders or Grims Mo had a video touring your shop. I think it was Grims. Yeah. Both
Speaker 2: did. And we reviewed it. Okay. In both. Yeah.
Speaker 3: *But there have been a number of times when you've said things *[00:42:00] *like, well, we don't need that anymore.*
*And so we got rid of it. *
*And just that willingness to say, we don't need that anymore. Like we are in the middle of a big reorganization. I sent you a video just before we started recording Yeah. Of major layout change stuff we were working on today. And I have been filling up trash can after trash can, after trash can after work.*
*Love it every day for the past couple days. Okay. Because we're unloading things off pallet racks that I haven't had to look at in a year and a half. Right. Like, okay, I put this in a bin and I put that bin on this pallet rack because I thought I might need this thing. And I haven't thought about it once, since 2023.*
It needs to go away forever. Yep. And that, that willingness to recognize when a thing is no longer needed . And more quickly move it out. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Like, I would have a hard time getting rid of a UR 10 robot and selling it at a loss. That would've been a big hurdle for me.
.
*It still would be a big hurdle for me.*
*Like, we've *[00:43:00] *never sold a c and c machine. That day will come. There's certainly, the machines that we had two years ago are probably not gonna be the perfect fit for the work we're doing 10 years from now. Our needs are gonna change. And so there are a lot of, a lot of excuses, a lot of reasons to talk yourself into hanging onto things like, oh, well that spindle's already paid off.*
*It's like, yeah, but. Do you need it? Yeah. Should it be here right now? *
Speaker 2: *Right. Yeah. The, the worst type of value is intrinsic or emotional value. Those are the hardest things to get rid of. Yeah. The worst kinds of costs are sunk costs. Mm. *
Speaker 3: *All right. Next question. Really quick. *
Speaker 2: *I wanna add one more thing to that.*
*So, morning meetings, like you and I have not actually, we could easily do this. We could attend each other's morning meetings 'cause we stream ours. Yeah. Um, but that simple thing of like, who's out and what does it mean, that is a, that is the final slide in every morning meeting. And it was one of those things, 'cause like you'd come in the next day and be like, where's Juan?*[00:44:00]
*Oh, he's taking the day off. Well, well now we're screwed. You know, who's gonna run the grinder? That type of thing. Yeah. That's so simple, but super powerful. I love that. *
Speaker 3: Next question. How did you personally know you were ready to be a business owner? Not just someone working in manufacturing for someone else, but actually stepping out to run your own operation?
Was there a specific moment or mindset shift when you knew it was time to bet on yourself? I sat down one day and I wrote the world's most beautiful business plan. Ha. And the second I finished that document, I knew I was ready. The doors opened. Yes,
Speaker 2: we've all done a hundred percent,
Speaker 3: 0%, 0%. It's that business plan.
So good. I hate business plans. I, there was no point at which I knew I was ready to be a business owner. . There wasn't a moment. There was a decision to start to make small bets on myself and set aside chunks of time on a regular [00:45:00] basis. And my first business failed. My first business was a guitar making company.
It failed. I borrowed some money on a private loan from an individual here in Indiana. It was less than $20,000, but to me, fresh outta college, like, 18, $19,000 was huge money. I had no idea how I was gonna repay it. The business failed. .
Speaker 5: And
Speaker 3: the business failed. I bought a bunch of tools.
I set up a little wood shop. I started making guitars and I had no plan for how to sell them. And then shockingly, I didn't sell very many of them because I had no plan for how to find customers and sell guitars.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And it, I don't think that I was ready then. I don't think I was ready when I started Henry Holsters because I didn't cold Turkey, leave everything that I was doing, quit my day job, and then go start a shop with no idea what I was gonna do with it.
.
I built my current business over, I mean, I started making holsters in 2009. I didn't go full-time into holster making until the summer of [00:46:00] 2016. . And so I gave myself a lot. This is what Gary V and other people call a side hustle. If it's a thing you're actually highly motivated to do, you have a deep interest in it.
You have some level of. Sustain curiosity and you develop expertise in it, you can side hustle at that really hard. 20, 25, 30 hours a week, you can fit it in. If you have a normal day job, you can work around it. If you're working 90 hours, you know, six, you know you're working 40 plus 50 overtime and you never see anybody, you probably don't have room for a side hustle, but you might not need one at that point.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: But if you have room for a side hustle, you can side hustle and then figure out what you don't know. . Yeah.
Speaker 2: *Yeah. For me, I too sat down and made a business plan. I actually did and never read it again. Because what they don't tell you about the, you know, the business plans is like, so much changes.*
*You change, market changes, your idea changes. It's it's a good exercise. My dad said, Hey, just do it. You know, I want you to think through stuff and it's good to think through *[00:47:00] *stuff. probably a, a really great piece of advice I got was at West Tech in I a long time, the first time I showed the pallet retention system and this guy said, Hey man, it's great. You know, he's very encouraging. He said I think you need to build your business with the exit in mind, which I had no idea what that meant for many, many years. I kind of get it now, like you want to, it speaks to, processes* *and documentation, stuff like that. But we don't get into business to do paperwork.*
*We've said that so many times. So as, as completely of no interest to me up until, you know, last probably four or five years where it's like, no, we gotta get this down because this is actually going to help us. It's not just some fancy document, like a will that's gonna live in a safe forever until I die.*
Yeah.
Speaker 3: Trying to craft a detailed business plan though, is like a 10-year-old kid trying to describe in great detail the beautiful woman he's going to marry someday. It's like, whatever. Yeah. Whatever you think is gonna be in your future, it's probably not gonna be
Speaker 2: that. Right. Right. So now on the flip side, I did know that I wanted to be a business owner.
I think it was just the influence from my parents. And I [00:48:00] remember very much in eighth grade they had us write a paper of like, what your ideal career. And I said, I wanna be a business owner. I don't really don't know what it's gonna be. I, I, I have no idea, but I think it's gonna be one of these things.
And, and I think I wrote about like what kind of cars I wanted, which is ridiculous. But, I think one of the things that has been clarifying to me, and I recommend maybe reading the book or maybe just *like, searching on YouTube an overview of it, but it would be the E-Myth revisited because I do think too many people go into business because they're really good at doing that one thing or they really enjoy doing that one thing.*
And that is a combination of two things. Just to recap, E-Myth Revisited it's the entrepreneurial myth. Which is people go into business because they're entrepreneurs. No, you're, it puts it in three categories. You're either a technician, a manager, or an entrepreneur. For me, very much fit like a classic entrepreneur.
That's not better or worse. It actually makes me a really bad technician. 'cause it, it bogs me down. Like, I have not programmed a part in Fusion since 2000. So it's been five years, uh, [00:49:00] sorry, 2020 since COVID. And it, because it, I, like, I enjoy it. I can do it. I could hold my own but it's not something that captivates me over time.
Manager, I do not fit that. Like managing people like it. This would be like in the six types of working genius, the galvanizer really manage that the enablers. It's just not my things. The intro entrepreneur, you're, you're really living at the 30,000 foot level. You're looking for opportunities.
You're not necessarily tenacious about many things because you just want to explore them. And, and when I sit down to design something. Within, you know, hour 40 of that design thing, it looks radically different than hour four. So for me, I, I knew I wanted to be a business owner very early on, but now looking back, the perspective is that I, probably would've failed.
Where had I been a really, really great machinist? I just would've stayed kind of small and, and listless and visionless and probably hiring people would've really bummed me out, yeah. [00:50:00] Now I have a, a team that's great, but they are, they fill in those gaps. those gaps that I don't have as technician and as a manager.
Speaker 3: Gotcha. Next two questions kind of go together and then we've gotta wrap 'cause I need to be outta here in about seven minutes. So, question one and two, back to back. You've both mentioned how you balance your families and your businesses, and I'd love to hear more on that. Specifically, how has owning your own business impacted how you raise your children?
And then the second question is, there's a lot of talk about kids interested in manufacturing, but when I talk to parents and other high of other high schoolers, most still believe that four year college university is the only viable path and most haven't heard about opportunities in manufacturing. How can we shift this mindset and encourage kids?
.
*And my answer to those two is link, which is why I put 'em together, is owning my own business means my kids can come to work with me and work here and learn and see things and get exposed to manufacturing. I was not exposed to manufacturing as a kid. I wish I had been. It would've been really, it would've interested me a great deal.*
*I know it would've, *[00:51:00] *but my kids have the opportunity to see both the work that our company does and the work that I do. Thinking about and working on and carrying that business when I'm not in the shop thinking about and taking care of our employees, planning ahead and doing the work that is owner's work.*
*Yeah. That's not employees work. . And I want them to recognize that that's both really challenging and very fulfilling work. We've said to our kids that one of the most gratifying parts of owning the company is being able to take care of the people who work for us well to be honest and thoughtful and kind to them, and to do whatever we can.*
*We're not a family, it's a business, but we want to treat them with the utmost respect and integrity. *
Speaker 2: Yeah,
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 2: for *question number one, um, basically is asking balance of family, business, all that stuff. So for me I was actually sitting down with, the senior pastor at my church a few years ago.*
*I said, dude, how do you do it all? Like, how, how do you run this organization? How do you lead *[00:52:00] *staff? How do you prepare for a sermon on Sunday morning? How do you be a good dad, a good husband? Like, what's your secret formula? What's your balance? And he said, no, no, no. It's like you're gonna be taken in different directions.*
*You just need to establish the times. And when you do those things, you need to commit yourself to being like 100% present. So one thing that I, I would say, I, it just, it was just like an inspiration that I started doing. When we first got married, I started not bringing my laptop home. I would just leave it at work.*
'cause I would bring a laptop. I've tried that.
Speaker 3: Yeah. It, it really works great sometimes.
Speaker 2: *Sure. Yeah. And there's times, yeah. And in and outta seasons, like, I don't wanna be dogmatic about that, you know, or legalistic, but there's sometimes there's like, hug the kids, hug the wife, eat dinner. I'm like, I gotta knock this out.*
*I got either inspiration or obligation. those are two things that drive me to work at home. But for me, it's really just saying, um, well working within like constraints, like self-imposed constraints saying I am not gonna do this at this time in this place. Therefore I have to, I have to do it either in this place or number of places *[00:53:00] *by this due date this deadline that, that really motivates me so that I can have the freedom.*
Like that's why we named this podcast what we did. You know, we are building our own freedom. Saying like this, I'm going to build a ama, an amazing marriage for as long as God keeps us alive, and I'm gonna be a dad up until like, they kind of don't need me anymore. And who knows, I still need my dad at times, But you know, it is one of those things where you make those definite decisions to be 100% present, active, engaged, and then everything else just needs to be, a pigeonholed. It just needs to, compartmentalized and just stuck there and that, that's it. My employees, I pay them for working 40 hours a week.
One guy, he went home and he came in the next morning. I was up all night worrying about it. I said, dude, you can't do that. I sleep like a baby. If I don't worry about it, you are not allowed to worry about it. I'm salaried. You are not. Don't do that again. You know? Yeah. Now at 8:01 AM you, you and I can start worrying about it.
So, yeah, that, that's
Speaker 3: *my mindset. *[00:54:00] *The question of getting other kids and their families interested in manufacturing. I really like, we have, one of our lean phrases is always be tour ready. Stole that from Paul Aker, I think. But if you have access to a manufacturing space where you own your own company, you have a shop, reach out proactively to schools in your area, talk to teachers, talk to parents and be an open door.*
*Say, Hey, this is what we do. We would love to have students from your school, your organization, come anytime and tour. We'll happily make time for you. Please come and see what we do. And not because we're just trying to recruit potential future interns and employees, but because if we can spark that fire of interest and creativity in a handful of young people, each time a group of students comes through, if hundreds of shops across the country or thousands of shops across the country are doing that consistently, we could have a whole new generation of young men and women who are fascinated.*
*By manufacturing and understand that everything has to get made by someone *[00:55:00] *and then they wanna do it to a world class level here in the United States. Yeah. Yeah. *
Speaker 2: I, so for many years, so I, I do feel like this is a mindset that's kind of going away if you pay it enough attention to it. Like, in our times it was like, yeah, a statistically a college, uh, educated person makes more money.
But that was just, you're looking at just a statistics. There's obviously anomalies floating around, but for me you're starting to see a lot of big companies, tech companies in particular, you know, if you SpaceX, Google meta they're not necessarily interested in hiring a person with a master's in computer science.
It's like, oh, I hacked this organization, or I put together this app. Like, that's far more valuable for me. It always starts with character. Like if they're a good character, they're gonna be successful wherever they go. That's just my opinion. But getting people, you know, interested in manufacturing.
Yeah, it is exposure. I would echo exactly what you said. I'm at a I'm at a disadvantage because I've had lots of [00:56:00] younger guys come and work for me and it's their first job in manufacturing. . And my more senior guys that have worked in a handful of jobs shops, like they're, they were working in like the slums and now they're working in the mansions.
'cause we have, we keep the rope tight around here and there's Yep. It's, they appreciate the delta between what they had before and what they have now. Exactly. Exactly. But if you take a kid that's, you know, taking AP courses, any steps into one of those greasy shops where you can make good money, they're gonna be like, no, why would I work here?
This is crazy. I'm just gonna go get a job in healthcare. And so there's, there's a disconnect there. But I do think the, I think there's enough talk in, social media in particular that like you don't necessarily have to have a college degree to be quote unquote successful.
So I know lots of people that are highly educated, like make lots of money and they're miserable. I would say they're not successful. That's a different way of thinking about it. But I go home on time. I have a wonderful, stable family and I feel like I'm a success regardless of the revenue that this company makes.
Speaker 3: Well, I need to wrap 'cause [00:57:00] I gotta run off to a school board meeting, but I have really enjoyed our first a hundred episodes, Jay. And thank you to everyone who has listened, who's left us comments, who's sent in questions, who's left us a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. We appreciate all of you.
Thank you for taking the time to listen to our journey, our podcast, and we hope you'll stick with us for the next a hundred episodes. Thanks for listening everybody. Have a great night everybody. Bye Night.