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The goal of this podcast is to guide and empower you on your journey toward financial independence.
Glenn (00:05.199)
Today my guest is Jim Oliver with Creating Tailwind. Welcome Jim.
Jim Oliver (00:10.318)
Thank you, Glenn. Thanks for having me on, man.
Glenn (00:13.039)
I'm extremely excited to have you on the podcast. I've been following you for about two or three weeks now, but really getting into all of your content. And before we even get started, I would say your podcast is great. It's all about abundance and cashflow, which I love. And that's my favorite topics.
Jim Oliver (00:34.478)
Yeah, thank you. You know, me too, because it's funny, you know, my kids, one of my kids one time said, all you think about is money. And I said, money gives you choices, choices gives you freedom. What I really care about is freedom. I want people to be able to do what they want to do when they want to do it and have all the money that they could possibly need or want to do it with. And I know the more money you make, the more impact you're going to have on your community, because when you have an abundance, then you want to share it and either share it.
share it physically, whether it's with your church, synagogue, or favorite charity, or you're going to teach somebody else how to do it.
Glenn (01:12.399)
Awesome. So if you could, let's get started with how you got started and really like really like from going from zero to where you're at today.
Jim Oliver (01:25.902)
All right, well, if you read the first page of the first chapter of my book, it starts off like this, is if you bring that baby home, I'll kill it. And this was from my birth mother's husband who said that she had an affair. She said she was raped. So I was given up for adoption at birth. So I grew up in foster care and I had six siblings. So I was a middle child. So obviously there's something bad going on in their world at the time.
But I grew up in foster care until I was seven years old. I was adopted into a really, it's so weird, into a really poor and abusive adoptive home. And I learned a lot from being in that home, from being super poor and having scarcity. It's why I'm so adamant about teaching people about abundance is because I know what scarcity feels like. And when growing up there, I...
I was homeless for a little while. I lived in the back of the Moose Lodge in a field in California and stood in line for government cheese, you know, all of those things. I'm not telling you a sob story. I'm telling you this is where I started. My dad drove a trash truck, minimum wage at the time. I don't think they pay those guys minimum wage anymore. And my mom worked in a casket factory doing the hardware for the box.
that goes on the handles and stuff from a casket. And she made minimum wage. And so when I was 13 years old, she said, you gotta get a job. You gotta come to the casket factory and work eight hours a day, six o 'clock in the morning, swinging a hammer. And I gotta tell you, Glenn, the first day that I did it, when I got a break at nine o 'clock, I slept for 15 minutes. I got a 15 minute break, I slept for 14 minutes of it. I was just out.
Like, my gosh, I cannot do this all day long. But it taught me that sometimes you can do more than you think you can do. You just have to do it, right? And then, but the other thing that it taught me is all of the people that work there had a scarcity mindset. But then, every once in a while, for an hour a day, two hours a day, I would see Dwayne McIntyre, the guy that owned the Casket Factory, right? And I would think, well, wait a minute.
Jim Oliver (03:51.982)
He's only here an hour or two a day owns the company and he lives in Palace Verde's. Now where I grew up, Palace Verde's was like unattainable. Like how do people live in Palace Verde's overlooking the ocean or Manhattan Beach or whatever it was? Like this is just, this is, I don't know how this happens. And so I became fascinated with money, but I learned that, Hey, the business owner lives in Palace Verde's.
And just as God can throw you a curve ball, he adopted like four kids, right? Now I get adopted to these, into this family and I won't go into the abusive stuff, but just this poor family, they're adopted into Palace Verde is kind of my dream at the time, right? And so I'm thinking, okay, he's a business owner. He's adopted kids, which had a soft spot, obviously in my heart.
And then one day I'm in my neighborhood with a friend of mine and we're walking up to the store to get a Coke. It's a sunny hot day in the summer, like on a Saturday or Sunday. And I looked down and there's a guy pulling weeds and I go, wait a minute. There that's Dwayne McIntyre. I said, what are you doing here? And I'd like to say I had great manners and said, Mr. McIntyre, I didn't say that because I wasn't a good mannered kid. But he said, hey, Jim, I, I own this.
house. I was thinking and I said, why do you own this house? I mean, why don't you own houses in Palos Verdes where it's nice? I mean, why do you want to own houses in my neighborhood? And he said, I own houses all around Los Angeles. Okay. So Glenn, think about that 13 years old. I learned every single thing that I needed to know to become wealthy. It's all about businesses and real estate, right?
And it's those two things. And by the way, if you're a real estate investor, guess what, Glenn, you're in the real estate business. Right. But I was a little slow. So I'm going to give you a little, I'm going to give you the whole story. Okay. If that's okay. And interrupt me if you want to anywhere. And, and, but I was a little slow. I guess I didn't learn that at, at 13. I was a solid 1 .2, 1 .3 student in school, Glenn, but I just didn't catch this lesson, but everything I needed to know right then.
Glenn (05:52.847)
Yep.
Glenn (06:01.711)
Yeah, go for it, go for it.
Jim Oliver (06:15.246)
So I go to school, I hated school, but I loved to learn. And then I go to college and I'm like, they're not teaching me what I want to know. I want to know what those people in Palos Verdes know. I want to know what those people in Beverly Hills and not the ones that got lucky, but the ones that built it, right? And so I go to school, I get out of school and I go into the financial services business because I'm thinking they know about money. I mean, Wall Street knows about money.
being a financial planner, those guys are the experts knowing about money. And I did that for 15 years and I got $700 million under management and I was charging a 1 % fee. So it wasn't bad deal. Now I had staff, I had a lot of expenses, but Glenn, I didn't do it the way that normal people do it. Normal people that come into that business, they get the right suit, they get the right tie, the right watch, they get the right shoes.
and they go out to the doctors, attorneys, the professionals. I was like, I am not having success doing that. So one day I'm driving, and this is in Denver, Colorado, I'm driving down Santa Fe Boulevard and I go, wait a minute, there's all of these industrial places like a casket factory, welding shop, plastics formation. And I thought, wait, if Dwayne McIntyre was running this little company and living in Palos Verdes,
Those people have money. So I started cold calling them, but I couldn't do it in a suit and tie. So I'd take my, I would bring jeans. I would take my tie off, take my coat off. Cause at my office I had to wear that. And I would just walk in and you know what? They would talk to me cause nobody was prospecting them. Nobody was trying to help them and show them what to do with their money. So I did that for 15 years.
I learned so much about running a business. I would just say, tell me your story. Hey, how's business going right now? Hey, we're having this problem, that problem, this problem. Hey, we're having this opportunity. Hey, we just hit this big score, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I learned and I learned and I learned and I learned. But 15 years in, I'm looking at this report and it says that my clients in this one platform that we had, earned 9 .38 % over this last period of time. And I thought, that's pretty good.
Jim Oliver (08:41.07)
But wait a minute, I got money in that. My money didn't grow by 9 .38%, not Kager compound annual growth rate. Not even close. So I did the math, Glenn, and you know what the actual rate of return was? 4%, just a little bit over. Okay, surprise audience, what your report says, your mutual funds, your 401k, the return you're getting, it's a lie.
How's that possible? How's that possible? Sorry. How's that possible? Well, it's the average rate of return. It's before expenses, fees, taxes, everything. So I said, well, wait a minute. But when I'm sitting down with the client and I'm saying, okay, you want to put away this much per month or you have this much in your account.
And at age 65, you're going to need this to live off that for the rest of your life. Like we were taught to retire, which is not the right concept. And I thought none of those numbers are going to work based on what I just discovered. So I said, okay, wait a minute. I'm doing something wrong. So I analyzed my whole book of business, the people that were really wealthy, $700 million.
Glenn (09:48.623)
Ahem.
Jim Oliver (10:03.918)
The ones that didn't get lucky, you know, they were the janitor at Google or something. There was no Google back then, but like there was cable companies and you could have made the same type of money back then in Denver. If you happen to be the janitor at a cable company when it just started and it blew up. Took all of that out. Anybody that was given the money inherited it took all of that out. Had to build themselves. Guess what, Glenn? It came down to two things. Real estate and businesses. That was it.
No other exceptions. And I said, wait, I'm teaching people the wrong thing. So I said, okay, I can't tell them to do something unless I'm doing it. So I'm going to go get into real estate. I'm going to go start buying businesses. And I learned one thing. The banks control that. Right? I mean, I mean, if I don't, if I got to use the bank, they told me no.
They're going to tell everybody no until you have a little bit of a reputation. And then they want 30 % down in the beginning. And someday maybe I'll get 20 % loan to value. But I mean, I was like, wait a minute, this doesn't work. That's when I realized that banking was the most important key to this. If I could get the money, I knew what to do with it. Right? And I could buy these businesses and I could add value to them and I could buy this real estate.
And I could look for real estate deals and I could look at real estate that nobody else, not the A apartment that everybody wants to buy these reeds and everything else. I could look at the stuff that was actually where people could make money and we could be of service to the community as well. And then I met Nelson Nash. Nelson Nash wrote a book called Becoming Your Own Banker, Unlocking the Infinite Banking Concept. 92 pages.
conceptual will change your life. You read it. And I said, okay, Nelson, you're doing this 10 hour course. I'm going to come see you. So I went down to Texas and I saw him and after five hours I was like, this is just a way to sell more life insurance. I mean, I don't want to do that. And then I thought this guy's a shyster or he's like brilliant. And I just haven't gotten that yet. So after 10 hours, Glen,
Glenn (12:20.783)
Hehehehehe
Jim Oliver (12:26.926)
two hours of asking questions. He said, Jim, I gotta go, but why don't you come back? I'm doing this seminar again in a few weeks. I said, okay, I'll be here. It wasn't at the same place, but I'll be there. And so I went back and about halfway through the light bulb went off. He's controlling the banking function. And if I can control the banking function and think long -term, I'm bulletproof.
I can buy as much stuff as I want to. And so he became a mentor to me. I had numerous conversations with him on the phone, in person, in Birmingham, in Iowa, all over the place. And probably the best man I have ever met. And I said, you know what? I'm going to teach people what he taught me, which is looking at infinite banking in a different way.
But more importantly, he taught me about freedom. He taught me about money gives you choices, choices gives you freedom. And so, and to think abundantly.
Glenn (13:38.223)
So that's a lot. So, no, it's great. And I, the one thing that gets me where I'm listening to you is...
Jim Oliver (13:39.246)
That's a lot, I know, sorry.
Glenn (13:51.855)
I guess.
With the infinite banking concept, we have, there's lots of information out on it. And what I could tell you that I've had, I've met with six or seven other insurance agents that were selling it or, and it never really made sense. Cause like they, it's like they paint this grandiose picture of what it is. And then they show you the actual,
Layout of it and then like the first time I ever had somebody show me one the policy broke even on like year 10 or 12 it was like This isn't gonna work for me, you know, and then I quickly start understanding, you know, I a lot of YouTube you can watch and But even then it kind of didn't sit well with me because I'm like who can I find that's actually successful and I
Jim Oliver (14:39.278)
Mm -hmm.
Glenn (14:56.047)
And I actually, I had a guy that does mobile homes and I, I just started talking to him and I didn't even know that he was going to be going into whole life or infinite banking, but he had like a thousand units and he was, I guess he's like, he'll probably be episode like 22 or 23 of what, of the podcasts that I've done, but he actually told me exactly his experience with it. And then it made.
that's when it started clicking. Then I actually came across your content and I, you, you talk about investing in RV parks and, mobile home parks. And, that's kind of the area that I'm in. And what I could tell you is that,
Jim Oliver (15:35.758)
Yeah.
Glenn (15:41.391)
It takes a little bit of the my main thing with the infinite banking is that you can't look at it as an investment, although it will long term. It turns out to be a very stable asset. But for me, I look at it as this is a legacy, but also within the by year five or six.
Jim Oliver (15:51.278)
Mm.
Glenn (16:09.167)
All the money I've put into it premium wise is a hundred percent there as cash value. And the way that I operate my finances is that all that money is usable. And the thing that I think, Nick, I talked to one of your guys is that the first year you're about 70 to 80 % cash value. And then on year two, it was about
90 to 95 % cash value. And that was the thing that stuck with me because I was like, okay, it's not, I understand that there is some premium that needs to be paid for building the product, doing all that underwriting and somebody has to get paid. So I look at it as in that exact scenario, which is my scenario, it could be different from, it's going to be different for every single person that gets underwritten.
Is that I'm paying about, we'll say, it's, about $20 ,000, 20 to $30 ,000 for whole life policy for that last forever compared to term policy that, everybody will tell you that that's, you know, buy term and invest the rest. But I, but I'm thinking, that 20 or $30 ,000 that I have put towards this.
policy turns into a legacy of 1 .5 million towards my family. And I look at it as a bridge from today's date till the end result. So it's guaranteed that I'm able to get this 1 .5 to my family, but also I'm able to start utilizing it almost within the first year of the product. And then...
From there, the asset tends to grow at a healthy rate, like a 5 % is what it kind of worked out for me. So I guess if you could add to any of that.
Jim Oliver (18:16.494)
Yeah, so I think your observations are exactly right. So if you think of infinite banking like a ledger, OK, so here's a line on a piece of paper straight down and then a horizontal line. And on one side of the horizontal line is the policy, and it's really your money pool. And because you put money in there,
The insurance company has to give you their money, interest only, while your money grows tax free, guaranteed every single day. And you can do whatever you want to with that money. You don't have to tell them what you're gonna do with it. You just say, send it to me. And you can get up to 100 % of your cash value, right? Excuse me. So, you're gonna take other people's money. Now you have use and control of somebody else's money. You're gonna take that and you're gonna put it in...
mobile home parks, RV parks, whatever you want. Right? The richest man in Babylon and in that book, he says, invest in what you know. And if you don't know, then you find who, not how don't, in my opinion, go find somebody who knows how to do it, partner with them in some way and let and learn. Right? And then maybe someday you want to do it on your own. Maybe not. Maybe you're like, Hey, this is good. I want to do all the work. So,
the return really comes from that investment. And my cost of money is interest only. And right now it's around 5%. Right? So it's a great deal. And my money, the loan rate, the interest only loan rate. But what I can show you, and I'd be happy to have my team give you a link to a video.
Glenn (19:54.319)
What's around 5 %?
Jim Oliver (20:06.958)
where I'm actually going through it, I always just use 100 ,000 because it makes the math easy. And you can see the percentages. But I show going, putting $100 ,000 into your infinite banking policy, and then taking the cash value, putting it into real estate. And I show this for four years. So somebody puts in 400 grand, they put that money, the cash value, like you said, it's not 100 % in the beginning, it's a little bit less than that for year two and three. And then around year four, it's 100%, right?
They do that for just as only for four years, but then they leverage the seller's money, seller finance, okay? They could use the bank if they wanted to. I use it 80 % loan to value because the seller, I'm gonna get better than 80 % loan to value. With the bank, if I have to use the bank, but it's a good deal, I'm not gonna get probably 80 % loan to value. So I just put something in the middle and then they go out and they buy real estate at 20 % loan to value, okay?
In four years, they put 400 grand in there. They have $2 .4 million of real estate. Okay, but there's something more, is the cash flow. So when I invest in real estate actively, I'm probably trying to get a 20, 25 % cash on cash return minimum. I have clients out there that are really, really good at this and Glenn, you do too. And they say, no, no, no, that's gotta be closer to 40%.
And I love the way they think, right? Because they're right. The way they do stuff, they're closer to that number. But then if somebody's going to do it passively, like, hey, I don't want anything to do with it. I don't want to think about it. I don't want to... It might be 10 or 12%. Whatever the number is, it always works. But if I use 25%, okay, because somewhere in between the 10 and the 40, okay, I'm just... This is just an example. But if I use the 25%, I've generated $120 ,000 of passive revenue annually.
So now think about that again. I put in 400 grand, 2 .4 million in real estate and $400 ,000 or $120 ,000 of passive revenue. Let's say I'm half that.
Jim Oliver (22:17.71)
Put in 400 grand. I have 2 .4 million in real estate and $60 ,000 of passive revenue. Four years. What do you think that looks like in 10 years, Glenn? Because one thing, and I want the audience to understand that, Glenn's talking about the first few years of the policy, right? At year 10, every dollar that I put in, I have about $1 .50 to use. Now, when it's that ratio, Glenn,
You write me a check for a dollar, I turn around and write you one for $150. You want that first check to be big or small?
Glenn (22:57.743)
as big as possible.
Jim Oliver (22:59.022)
as big as possible. So like if I would let you write a check, for instance, for $4 million, you would be totally cool with that because you know, I'm going to turn around and write you one for six. But it's getting there. That's why we got to think long term. So the investment and when I look at the the you it's it's an the insurance contract using it with infinite banking, not just letting it sit there like the quiet company and some of these other companies talk about money.
Glenn (23:25.231)
Yes.
Jim Oliver (23:28.974)
Motion is a law of God, Glenn. If air doesn't flow in and out of our bodies, we die. If blood doesn't flow through our bodies, we die. If water doesn't flow, it becomes stagnant. And if our money doesn't move, it dies. Which is everybody wants you to park your money in their bank, in their mutual fund, in their 401k, and all of these things. And the government wants to tie it up and put all these rules on it. Free people don't do that.
Abundant people don't do that if they know a better way. So you your money, every business in the world is based on turns, right? Whatever a turn is worth. I am. And so by the way, I proving this concept, I've bought almost 40 businesses. I've sold some I'm in the high twenties, almost 30 businesses that I still own.
using the infinite banking concept. And I will tell you that I bought these businesses and there were opportunities in each one of these businesses to finance something, to lease equipment, to lease, and not on interest only, but on amortization. When you bring amortization in, it brings in volume of interest, right? Now, a lot of people don't think about that, but their mortgage is your perfect example.
Glenn (24:51.631)
Yep. Yep.
Jim Oliver (24:56.302)
And I'm just going to use a stupid number, $300 ,000 mortgage. Cause I don't want to, I don't want to alienate anybody. Okay. If I had a $300 ,000 mortgage, my payment is about $1 ,610 a month at 5 % interest. I know you can't get a 5 % loan right now, but three years ago, everybody told me that number is too high. All right. Just use it. This is just an example. $1 ,610. So if I take 16, 10 times 360 months, it's $580 ,000 that I pay in.
Glenn (25:14.095)
Heheheheh
Jim Oliver (25:26.894)
Okay, so that means for 30 years, every dollar that I pay to the mortgage company, around 50 % goes to my benefit and around 50 % goes to their benefit. Where's my 5 %? The volume of interest is all that matters. The rate is a distractor. It's a lie. Because Glenn, if you earn a dollar and you have to give me half of that dollar, do you care what your interest rate is?
Glenn (25:58.159)
no, no.
Jim Oliver (25:59.822)
No. It's just like, why do I have to give Jim half my dollar?
Glenn (26:02.991)
Don't want to give you half my dollar.
Jim Oliver (26:05.134)
and by the way, it's worse than that really, in reality, it's worse. And wait till this turns and the rates go down. Here's what normally happened for 20 years almost, is you would get a mortgage and you would get either an adjustable rate mortgage, hey, it's locked in for five years. Are you going to live there five years, seven years, whatever they put you in, right? But they didn't wait that long because the bank knows something. In the first
Five years, over 80 % goes to their benefit and less than 20 % goes to your benefit. So the bank comes up to you and they go, hey, Glenn, I'm so glad you came in today. Hey, I was looking at your loan and we got this special loan, don't tell anybody, but I can lower your rate by three quarters of a point. And you go, well, what does that do in my payment? It goes from 16, 10 down to 1500 bucks. Well, why wouldn't I do that?
Well, I don't see any reason why you wouldn't. It's no cost, anything to you. Don't worry about that. But we are going to start that amortization over again, but they don't even tell you that because you know, they know you don't even know what the hell that means. So they keep you in that 85 % going to them and 15 % or so going to you. And they will tack on the closing cost, right? They don't say, I'm sorry. You know what? I misspoke there, Glenn. They don't say no cost. They say no out of pocket.
Glenn (27:19.791)
And they'll tack on the closing cost. The closing cost is where they get you.
Glenn (27:31.375)
Exactly. It's free. It's free until you pay for it.
Jim Oliver (27:32.526)
Yeah, won't cost you anything out of pocket. It's free. Out of pocket. Yeah. You can buy a lot of cars. You can buy lots of expensive cars, no money out of pocket.
Glenn (27:45.711)
Yeah. So let's talk about, I, I, what I like to, would like to talk about is kind of the hurdles that I have mentally, when we're going over these policies. So just for people, I have, I feel like I have a lots of knowledge on infinite banking because I've been somewhat obsessed with it and I've been researching it. But, one thing that is really cool about the infinite banking con com.
Jim Oliver (27:54.414)
Yeah.
Glenn (28:15.087)
concept is the cash value. You don't actually touch the cash value. You're borrowing against the cash value. The cash value has certain guarantees. And I would, I think the number, it was around four or 5 % that it grows consistently. So you could be borrowing from this cash value or borrowing against the cash value. You're not borrowing from it. You're borrowing against it.
Jim Oliver (28:42.222)
Mm -hmm.
Glenn (28:42.831)
And this cash value still grows at 5%. And you're paying the premium. So it's also growing the cash value that way. And when you borrow against it, you're saying that the insurance company that is letting you, that's that you're borrowing from pretty much is what's the interest rate like that today? Like about like for certain policies.
Jim Oliver (29:07.982)
Yeah, like I just we just did a long that was like 5 .1 % or 5 .2 % or something like that. So around 5 %
Glenn (29:17.711)
So when you hear people talk about it, this is, I guess, where you could kind of have the idea that you're technically.
getting an interest -free loan. Would you agree with that or just because it's growing at 5 % and you're borrowing at 5 %?
Jim Oliver (29:35.182)
So here's what's really interesting about that, right? So I wish I could draw this out because if you could see like, and again, I have this all in video, we'd be happy to put it in the show notes, is you have this money pool that you're building up and it's tax sheltered. Once it's in there, it's never taxed again, not even at death, right? The death benefit goes to your family tax free. So you talk about leaving a legacy Glenn and...
Glenn (29:40.015)
Yeah.
Jim Oliver (30:00.91)
Again, in my belief system, the Bible says, a good man leaves an inheritance, right? Now that could be a lot of things. If you don't have money, then make it wisdom. But you have that money and it's protected. And it's designed like a bank designs a bully, bank -owned life insurance. Corporations design it, COLE, corporate -owned life insurance. Now why does a bank and a corporation buy life insurance? Because they know what we're talking about, right?
Ultra Rich have always done this. Rockefeller, he talks about it in I don't know how many books, right? So you have this money, it's growing guaranteed, tax free, okay? And then because you have that, like you said, you get to borrow the insurance company's money. You get to go put that in use. Now, if that was it, it'd still be a good deal because then you'd be borrowing at 0 % interest, right?
But what are you going to do with it? You're going to go work with Glenn and go buy some RV parks. What are those going to return? Way better than any insurance contract ever thought about. Right? So now I don't have to choose. Right now, if you've got money sitting in your checking account or you want to buy this RV park, you got to choose. It's an ore asset. I get this or I get that. Because I can collateralize 100 % of my cash value, I get both.
So it's an and asset. I get that tax sheltered money, that tax shelter return, the tax invisible nature. I get the legacy rate of return. I get the RV park and I get to deduct the interest that I'm paying the insurance company because it's not my money. So my 5 % is deductible. My 5 % I'm earning or whatever it is inside the insurance contract, I'm not paying tax on.
So how many things in your life is the money that you're paying you get to deduct and the money you're earning you don't have to report on your taxes? Not very many, if any. But here's even something better, right? Is I'm gonna create velocity because if I go invest in an RV park and you send me a check, I don't really want that check right now. So what am I gonna do?
Jim Oliver (32:19.822)
I'll put it back in the insurance contract. And then you call me and you say, Hey, I got another opportunity. I said, boom, where do I send the money? Now I got investment, a investment, B investment, C investment, D rents and repeat as many times as you want. Now I'm acting like a bank. Banking is the most profitable business in the world. Now, Glen, when you pay your mortgages and I pay my mortgages,
What does the bank do with that money? They pull it together, but what do they do with it? Loan it out again. Right? Some people say to me, they invest it. I go, no, no, no, they don't invest it. The loan is the asset. They're buying assets just like we are. And it's the loan for a bank. This is why we got to change our mindset. We've been trained. We've been taught all the wrong things about money. We've been taught to be like a slave, like a consumer.
Glenn (32:54.831)
Lend it out. Yeah.
Glenn (32:59.055)
No, they land it.
Jim Oliver (33:19.694)
And we got to be like an owner. We got to think like owners. We got to think abundantly and we got to think about turns and moving money. If I buy more RV parks, will I make more money? Absolutely. That's right. That's right. I mean, and so all I got to do is how to turn that money faster and faster and faster. How to fund my banking system to where I get to go deploy that money. Right. And then I got to find somebody that I can partner with that knows what the heck they're doing. If I don't.
Glenn (33:31.695)
We hope so.
Jim Oliver (33:51.694)
I'm not saying it's simple, but it doesn't mean it's easy, right? Einstein said simplicity is elusive. Now why? Because of the noise. Because of the noise. They want you to take your money and put it in a large financial institution. Okay.
And so think of any, I'm not going to pick on the banks, Wall Street, insurance companies, they're all large financial institutions. What do they all want, Glenn?
Glenn (34:25.551)
Your money.
Jim Oliver (34:26.67)
And how much of it do they want?
Glenn (34:28.207)
as much as they can get.
Jim Oliver (34:29.998)
And how long do they wanna keep it? And how much do they wanna give back to you?
Glenn (34:31.663)
Forever.
as little as possible.
Jim Oliver (34:37.102)
Boom, boom, boom, a student right there. You answered every question exactly right. So we got to break away from that.
Glenn (34:39.055)
Yeah, I already, I'm drinking the Kool -Aid.
Glenn (34:48.623)
So let me, okay, so I just like to disclose, I am not selling insurance. I used to have an insurance license and I only sold one policy. It was a long -term care policy, but I have no way of making any money off of this. So just to be clear, for me, it was always hard because I always think to myself, if I'm listening to this person, the reason why they're selling it to me is because they're making money. That's the hardest hurdle for an insurance agent.
Jim Oliver (35:14.574)
Right.
Glenn (35:18.031)
to sell this because you're like, yeah, you're making money on me. So, but let me just tell you my, this things that sold me personally, and it sounds like a insurance agent way to say it, but it totally makes sense now to me is there's guarantees. So the guarantee, I start this policy and I, and what it creates at first, it's like, we'll just, I'll just tell you.
what I'm doing is I'm putting $5 ,000. I have a five, my goal is $5 ,000 cashflow a month is going to go into a whole life policy to start this whole life policy is $60 ,000 a year. And what, and we already talked about the fees that I had to pay to get it, to get it going. So we have a, we'll say there's $30 ,000 worth of fees on the front end that, I will recoup.
in the first five years, but what it does is it says, I have $1 .5 million of legacy and I'm building out this bank that is going to churn at 5%. It's 5 % as the cash value, but every year that I renew the, you know, I put more premium in that premium upticks what Jim was talking about. Like say if that policy goes in year seven, I think.
It drops off from 60 ,000, I think to 24 ,000. This is just my policy. It could be different for all types of people. But even if I put 24 ,000 in, I think the premium goes, I ended up getting like 13 ,000 over the 24 ,000, like what Jim was saying. So, but in year 10,
Jim Oliver (37:02.926)
Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that crazy?
Glenn (37:09.167)
Say if I never opened up another whole life policy in year 10, my whole life policy, my life insurance policy is now 2 million and I have $700 ,000 worth of cash value in there. And then we'll say, and by the year when I'm 70, which I'm 38 today, I'm 70, the whole life policy.
Jim Oliver (37:25.262)
Guaranteed.
Glenn (37:37.327)
is going to be about 4 million. And this is off of the, I think it might be the guarantees or non -guarantees, but this policy has been paid its non -guaranteed dividend for over a hundred years. So it's pretty, you would say that this has gone through a lot to continuously pay it. Long story short, that whole life policy would be $4 million and the cash value at 70.
Jim Oliver (37:51.374)
Mm -hmm.
Glenn (38:07.023)
would be $2 million and it's paying, we'll just say that it will be paying about 5 % off of that. And that's tax free. And back to Jim's point about being tax free, I was talking to a friend that's his first question is what's the taxable event? Because he has enough income that everything costs 40 % of tax. And if we look at, if we're,
planning for abundance and I'd like to think my net worth is going to be high in the future. That 5 % is actually more like an eight to 9 % dividend on this cash value that I can also take all that money and invest it into real estate or businesses and all the things that I'm talking about. And it only costs on the front end.
you know, 20 to $30 ,000 and you recoup it in the first five years. So that, that is the thing that sold me as like, I'm like, okay, so I'm paying $30 ,000 for a guaranteed thing that's going to happen at the end and building a legacy. And then here's the other hurdle that I get, have to get over is what's my kids going to do with $4 million? And it's like, it doesn't technically have to go to your kids.
Jim Oliver (39:09.134)
Easy.
Jim Oliver (39:32.558)
That's right.
Glenn (39:33.103)
It can go. I always think to myself, I would love to have my name on a building, you know, like there's and to think that that's too grandiose. It's like, well, how what are we thinking here? Are we are we trying to live a mediocre? Like I'm saving to be, you know, very wealthy one day and. I like think to myself, it would be nice to have.
you know, build a museum or build a, some type of charity, something that constantly puts off, you know, you know, orphans, the things that you're talking about. It's like, you want the legacy to live on. And those are the types of things that happen. It doesn't have to go to, to my kids. And I don't know if it would help my kids to get there, but at the same time, it's, it's a, it's something that will live way longer than I will, in my opinion, but at the same time, we have a.
a policy that will be in year 10, a $700 ,000 cash value and really definitely financially independent by that point, you know, if you have that much cash value. And that is kind of my thoughts.
Jim Oliver (40:44.142)
and a pool of money. Yeah, you have a pool of money. You can do whatever you want to with it. But when you you touched on a lot of cool things there is one is I'm in that position. You know, I'm I'm 20. I'll be 59. I'm 21 years older than you. I'll be 59 in a week. So but so I think about this with my kids. I want my kids to get an inheritance.
but not enough to really change their lives. And here's why, is I feel sorry for people that are born into that. Because the struggles and the adversity that has molded me and I've seen a million, not a million, but thousands of clients that have molded them, I would hate to rob somebody of that, right? Number one, but number two, what you just said.
Glenn (41:13.967)
Yeah.
Glenn (41:29.455)
Yeah.
Glenn (41:34.959)
Yeah, you have to have struggle.
Jim Oliver (41:39.342)
You know, hey, they're they're they're a wing or building at St. Jude's or or the Children's Hospital in Iowa City that you'll they see when the Iowa Hawkeyes play football. I would love for there to be an Oliver wing or building or whatever. And and that teaches your kids, your great grandkids, everybody about that. But think about JD Rockefeller. OK, so.
There's a couple of things because what you were creating and what you just described as your vision was really cool. Now, JD Rockefeller, when he was a kid, and most people don't know this, but he grew up dirt poor. I'm not talking about John Rockefeller. I'm not talking about anybody past that. But the first generation, super poor. And he said in his vision, in his mind, in his dream,
was to be the richest man in the world. He planted that seed in his head. I grew up a poor kid, I never had the confidence to do that. I never said I'll be the richest man in the world. I just wanted to be comfortable and secure and I wanted to be able to like have a house to where somebody was gonna come kick me out. And so I dreamt low, I put the bar low. The bars kept on going up, but in the beginning the bar was low. But he said I'll be the richest man in the world and he was. But he also did two things.
He said there's a book called 38 letters to my son or something like that. But if you just look up 38 letters, J .D. Rockefeller, you'll get the exact title. But there's two things that really, one, his son lost a million dollars in Wall Street at the time. Now, this is in the early 1900s. That's a ton of money, right? To what it would be today. And he says, son, it's OK. You can still come to the family.
and borrow some money to earn that back and more and turn this around. He says, I am the bank. Right in this letter, there's this is not, there's no narrative in this book. It's just letters from a dad to his son. Right. And he's telling him I'm the bank. He's, and he tells him I wasn't the bank in the beginning, but then I became the bank. Right. And, and, and by the way, he bought,
Jim Oliver (44:05.645)
tons of whole life insurance to do the same thing. But the vision and then everybody thinks Rockefeller money, money, money, money, but it's the charities. Even as much money as they have, their charitable foundation is massive. Guess who gets this decide that who was ever in charge of the foundation, whoever is in charge of the money. And so in your, it could be Rockefeller.
or you could be something less than that. Just like Glenn said, you get to decide, you get to control who are you gonna bless with that money. Anybody you want, you're in control.
Glenn (44:51.119)
Definitely. I would say that we have touched on pretty much, I mean, it's definitely, I love watching all the content, but what I would say with Jim's, he has an app that I'm on that regularly that has a lot of content to learn about infinite banking. And I would highly recommend.
He it's a lot of it is Jim teaching it, which is great. I love the stories from, like the analogies to compare things to, and it helps, helps me understand it better. And, what I would say is, that would be a good place to start. And, and Jim's podcast is great as well. where, where can people find you besides that? I guess that's, we'll put all the information in our show notes.
Jim Oliver (45:44.758)
Yeah. We're on Instagram. We're on YouTube. You know, again, I'm an old guy, Glenn. So I don't know really how all that works. But but I definitely make sure that the team has all of the handles and sites and everything. But I think you nailed it is the community is designed to be a community like Glenn could have a question.
And maybe before I answered somebody else in the community says, hey, Glenn, I was in that same position. Here's what I did. Right. And this is what you know, and then and then now it's a conversation. But the courses on there, like I mentioned Nelson's book in the beginning and again, 92 pages if you really want to understand the psychology and stuff of the of infinite banking. But when I read it the first time, somebody gave it to me and they said, hey, this doesn't work.
And I said, okay, cool. But it sat on my desk, so I thumbed through it one day and I go, again, my conclusion was this is just a way to sell life insurance. Right? And I don't want to do that. But after 20 hours with Nelson, then hundreds of hours with Nelson after that, I know that book like the back of my hand.
I go page by page of that book and explain it all to you in two hours and 45 minutes. That might seem like a lot, but I promise you, if you've got that book and you watch that course, it will change the way you think about money and it'll change your wealth trajectory because you'll see, I'll blow up some myths that you might believe right now, but I'll also give you the truth that you need.
to go build true wealth.
Glenn (47:38.767)
Awesome. And also I'll piggyback on that is I, like I said at the beginning of the show is I have spoke with six to seven other insurance agents and I could tell you that working with Jim and his, and Nick, have been, I could tell you that I could, it's, it's, it's a lot different than, than the other agents that I've spoke with. And I could tell you that they have, everybody there's,
What I'll tell you is that if you call, I don't know if they will, but if you call MetLife, they'll tell you they can do infinite banking for you. So it's one of those things that there's a lot of people that will say they can do it. But I could tell you that these, Nick and Jim have been super helpful, super responsive, and it's helped me through understanding the process. And I'm super excited to get started and yeah.
Jim Oliver (48:17.486)
Yeah.
Jim Oliver (48:36.942)
Well, we're super excited to help you, Glenn, because, you know, ultimately, just like you said about the vision is buying these companies doing this stuff. Like, and I live in Florida, I see all these retired people down here, right? And there's nothing wrong with that for them. But I never want to retire. I want my my resignation to be in my obituary.
Right? I mean, I don't want to retire. I love doing this because again, I remember driving around in crummy cars and living in crummy houses and it made me feel lesser than everyone around me. And I'm passionate about helping everyone fulfill their vision and their dreams of wealth. And so when you share it, if you notice my voice got a little quicker, a little louder because I'm like, all right, now I know Glenn's vision.
And we're going to help you get there, Glenn. And anybody else in the audience, if you want some help getting up the mountain, we're here. We've been up the mountain. We know how to get up and down it without freezing to death. And so it's the same way, just like Glenn and RV parks and mobile home parks. I could go out there and try to do it and hope I don't make a fatal mistake and slip on the ice as I'm coming down from Mount Everest and I'm frozen to death. Or I can say, Glenn.
How do you make sure you don't freeze to death on the way down? no problem. I've been worried about that too, but here's what I found, here's what I learned, right? So I love that, Glen. I thank you again for sharing that.
Glenn (50:06.927)
Also, because it is a little bit, it seems a little bit complex. at first I would also add that, these, Jim and, Nick, I know there might be some other guys that you work with, but they, they're there to help you along the way. Cause I've had other people that I could kind of sense the second that you buy something from them. They.
will disappear and I've had that sales experience many times and that was the comfort that I felt whenever I was working with Nick and Jim and, and I would say that they are, you know, that you could tell that they're, they're, they have the classes, they have a regular mastermind groups and stuff that, that actually support and the community that will also help you answer your questions as you have them along the way, which.
At first, I feel like now I have a walking around sense, but I could tell you that at first it was kind of like, you know, some, some lingering questions that come across and to have somebody available is super helpful. And it's a big commitment. You know, it's, it's kind of like restructure how you run your finances. So.
Jim Oliver (51:20.59)
Yeah. It's learning something new, right? But you know what Nelson used to say, Glenn, is he would say this is caught, not taught. So he would say, like, you have to learn about it, and then it'll just click. And it did for me, and it obviously has for you. But once you get it, you're like, wait a minute. I get to use, I get to have my money protected in a tax shelter, guaranteed growth, and I get to do everything else that I want to do with it.
Glenn (51:28.911)
Yeah.
Jim Oliver (51:50.094)
Wow. Now, now all I got to do is figure out what I'm going to do with it.
Glenn (51:52.047)
Exactly.
Glenn (51:56.911)
Awesome. Well, thanks for coming on the show, Jim.
Jim Oliver (51:59.438)
Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you for having me, man.