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Stories of veteran service and sacrifice straight from the people driving today’s most important veterans causes and veterans organizations around the world. The show shines a spotlight on their inspiring projects making a real difference for veterans and their families, and along the way we'll hear the stories that drive them to do their best every day as they work to support veterans and their memory.
00:00:06:08 - 00:00:37:15
Speaker 1
Hey, it's Matthew Cudmore and welcome to Story Behind the Stone, a show where we talk service, sacrifice and story. This July marks a massive milestone in our collective history. It's a 110th anniversary of the battle of the Somme, a campaign synonymous with the sheer scale and tragedy of the First World War. But how do we keep those memories alive when the generation that lived them has gone for over a century, the Commonwealth War Graves Commission, the CWGC, has set the standard for remembrance, caring for the graves and memorials of over 1.7 million Commonwealth service members across more than 150 countries.
00:00:37:15 - 00:00:56:02
Speaker 1
If you've ever looked at a war grave and wondered who that person was, how they're found today, and why this story still matters 110 years later, this is an episode that you can't afford to miss. To help us dive into that history and the incredible ongoing commemoration work happening right now, we are honored to welcome Lynelle Howson, historian for the Commonwealth War Graves Commission.
00:00:56:03 - 00:00:57:13
Speaker 1
Lynelle, welcome to the show.
00:00:57:14 - 00:00:59:04
Speaker 2
Thank you very much for having me, Matthew.
00:00:59:04 - 00:01:11:14
Speaker 1
Lynelle, it's such a pleasure to have you on the show today. And before we go back in time to 1916, 110 years ago. Let's start with you. What first drew you to the field of history, and what's motivating you to dedicate your career to this work?
00:01:11:15 - 00:01:35:07
Speaker 2
Well, I grew up in a house that loved books and the past, so in a way, I inherited my interest. As far as I can remember. I've been interested in stories about people in conflict during times of conflict. I remember very clearly, really enjoying a book about Joan of Arc very shortly after I learned to read myself. And so I've never really left the history of conflict behind.
00:01:35:08 - 00:01:41:23
Speaker 2
No matter what I've been doing for work or for study, there has always been an aspect of warfare that has held my interest.
00:01:41:23 - 00:01:49:01
Speaker 1
As a historian with the CWGC. If there is a typical day, what does that look like for you and what could it possibly involve?
00:01:49:01 - 00:02:11:12
Speaker 2
It is a joy of the job that I have. That kind of isn't a typical day. Let me try. A typical day would probably involve fielding some questions I just didn't expect, either from my colleagues or from people outside the organization. If it's a really good day, it is a day where I can go to one of our sites and speak to people about a site and about the people we commemorate there.
00:02:11:13 - 00:02:29:11
Speaker 2
Usually a day will have something to do with our online stories portal, where people can tell us the stories of people we commemorate that's called Forevermore stories of the fallen, and there's usually some office banter. It has to be said. I mean, currently there's the World Cup football, and typical day has to include just a little bit of that.
00:02:29:13 - 00:02:36:10
Speaker 1
For listeners who might not know the commission, can you give us a brief overview of the scale of the work and why its mission continues today?
00:02:36:11 - 00:03:19:14
Speaker 2
The Commonwealth War Graves Commission began as the Imperial War Graves Commission, and it began with a charter that was issued by the King, making it a Royal chartered organization. That happened in May 1917 during the First World War, and the Commission was created to ensure that the servicemen and women who were losing their lives in the First World War, as it is now called, would be remembered by name forever, that their graves would be cared for, or their names would be reflected on memorials, that we would create and maintain a perpetual places of commemoration for those brave people from all over the Empire and outside it, that had made the ultimate sacrifice in service of
00:03:19:15 - 00:03:20:14
Speaker 2
their countries.
00:03:20:15 - 00:03:28:10
Speaker 1
So let's take ourselves back 110 years. What was going on in 1916, and how did the Somme become a focal point for the Western Front?
00:03:28:11 - 00:03:53:15
Speaker 2
First of all, we began in the summer of 1914 and the British Army, quite a small army at the time, went over the channel to France and Belgium, but also began operations all over the world against the forces of the German Empire, where they found them thinking about the Western Front, which is where the Somme is, the British Army, where in Belgium and in France from the autumn of 1914.
00:03:53:15 - 00:04:25:22
Speaker 2
By the summer of 1916, they've almost been there for two years. They've expanded the Army a great deal, and as of the end of 1915, a big joint offensive had been agreed between the British and the French to occur in France, where there are lines met in the area of the river Somme in northern France. And that's where we find ourselves in June, July of 1916, 110 years ago right now, an incredibly large offensive was planned.
00:04:25:23 - 00:04:48:12
Speaker 2
The French portion of the offensive was going to be bigger than the British portion. But unfortunately, of course, there's an enemy to contend with at the time, the forces of Germany, and they have their own ideas. And the Germans began an offensive near the French town of Verdun. Again, one of the most evocative place names in the history of the First World War, particularly for France.
00:04:48:12 - 00:05:08:02
Speaker 2
And that drew the attention and a lot of the French forces away from the Somme into the fighting at Verdun. So we find ourselves in June 1916, with the forces of Britain and her Commonwealth having to take over more of the planned joint offensive because the French are also fighting at Verdun.
00:05:08:03 - 00:05:13:18
Speaker 1
Take us to July 1st. This is the first day of the battle, one of the darkest days in British military history.
00:05:13:19 - 00:05:53:19
Speaker 2
The 1st of July is when the infantry assault began on the Somme for a week, before incredibly large amounts of artillery had been expending themselves over the chalk hills and the river valleys on the battlefield of the Somme. It was hoped that this incredibly thorough artillery preparation would have done serious damage to the German fortifications, and that on the 1st of July the British Army, many divisions of which had not seen an offensive like this before, would be helped by the damage that the artillery pieces had wrought in the week before the 1st of July.
00:05:53:20 - 00:06:27:15
Speaker 2
Unfortunately, that did not come true on all parts of the battlefield. This is such a big battle that it can be, as a historian, quite difficult to simplify it down and still be telling the truth. It's important to understand that on the 1st of July. This was many miles of front and many thousands of men going into combat, and the story is different from one part of the battlefield to the other, even on the first day, let alone the fact that the onslaught continued for another 140 days.
00:06:27:16 - 00:06:57:02
Speaker 2
And over that whole span of time, a great many things were done differently, more successful, less successful. So it's really difficult to say well, on the 1st of July. This is what it was like, and this is how it went poorly, because it also went well in some places. But taking a step back and thinking about how people remember the battle of the Somme, it's very much focused on the first day and on the incredible levels of casualties suffered by British forces on that day.
00:06:57:03 - 00:07:07:18
Speaker 1
Tell us a little bit about the German experience. They've suffered five days of artillery barrage. How did they survive and how are they doing on that 1st of July?
00:07:07:19 - 00:07:37:00
Speaker 2
This is a really important part of the story. So thank you very much for prompting me to to speak about that. The Germans have held this territory for almost two years, let's say, and they have had every opportunity to fortify, and they have used those opportunities. The the landscape of the Somme is chalk hills, which are actually really great for digging down into and building dugouts, places to store yourself and all of your things.
00:07:37:00 - 00:08:00:16
Speaker 2
And great vantage points had already been fortified by the German forces. Which isn't to say that it's absolutely fine to be bombarded for a week, because it absolutely was not. The heavy artillery assault was absolutely terrible to the people who were living through it. A great deal of damage was done. It was really hard to get food and water up to the people in the front positions.
00:08:00:16 - 00:08:37:15
Speaker 2
I'm sure they were all very, very happy to have the big artillery onslaught ended. However, many of them were perfectly fine. They had survived their gun positions, had survived, their stockpiles of ammunition, had survived. And unfortunately for many, many thousands of the British men ready to go into battle at about 7:30 in the morning on the 1st of July, they were going to be faced with plenty of German machine guns, German artillery positions and German soldiers with perfectly functioning weapons and plenty to shoot at them.
00:08:37:15 - 00:08:59:07
Speaker 2
If you read some of the tales of people who survive and then wrote about the war later, the sound of being trapped under that artillery barrage was really terrible. But it didn't do what it was hoped that it would do in part of the line, and that there were plenty of German defenders in these really prime positions, still ready to defend those positions as they had been asked to do.
00:08:59:07 - 00:09:06:16
Speaker 1
From the British side. I fed them, described as the pals battalions. What were those and why was that such a significant concept?
00:09:06:17 - 00:09:32:22
Speaker 2
If we think through how you might encourage a large number of people to volunteer for service in the Army, something they had not considered doing before, the idea of coming along with your friends, with your pals, with people you're already connected to in your community, is a pretty powerful enticement. You could always have gone and joined the army with your friends, but there would have been no guarantee that you would have ended up in precisely the same unit and serving together.
00:09:32:22 - 00:09:57:08
Speaker 2
So the idea that we now call the pals battalions was all wrapped up in how to encourage large numbers of men to enlist voluntarily, because the British Army was a small volunteer but professional force before the war and knew they had to get much, much bigger. And in fairness, tens of thousands of men did come and sign up for service in August and September of 1914.
00:09:57:08 - 00:10:28:08
Speaker 2
But the pals battalions did allow people to come in from their football clubs, from their places of work, and all serve in the same battalion together. A battalion is no bigger than 10,000, usually more around the 800 mark. Later in the war, they're much smaller. Just for a second, thinking about the American Civil War in the 1860s, it was very common then for groups of men from a particular town or village to all be serving in the same company or in the same regiment.
00:10:28:08 - 00:11:00:16
Speaker 2
And unfortunately, the story there is the story that was echoed with the experience of some of the pals battalions on the Somme, especially on the 1st of July, which is that while it might entice people to all come and join up together, the effect that it has if something goes wrong for the battalion in question on the people back home who are likewise all connected to this particular group of 7 or 800 young men, that's the point that gives you pause.
00:11:00:17 - 00:11:22:02
Speaker 2
So while it sounds like a positive and good idea for encouraging people to bring their community into the army, the very sad fact is that if that community then goes into fire, and very few of them come back out at the end of the day, all of that terrible news is going back to small individual communities back at home.
00:11:22:02 - 00:11:42:02
Speaker 2
And it's really understandable why communities that were affected in that way still really think about the first day of July and the incredible losses that their factories and their football clubs and their streets suffered on that day, accidentally created through this idea of encouraging people to join up with their pals.
00:11:42:03 - 00:11:47:03
Speaker 1
When you think about the Somme, is there a face or a story that comes to mind that's resonated with you?
00:11:47:04 - 00:12:13:20
Speaker 2
Well, since you were just asking me about the pals battalions, the northern sector of the battlefields is a place that is really connected with the memories of some particular pals battalions, young men who joined up together from northern industrial cities and then saw their first action together on the 1st of July and unfortunately can still be visited together, unfortunately, because they all died.
00:12:13:20 - 00:12:59:13
Speaker 2
But fortunately we can go visit them together in the beautiful cemeteries that are created right along the line of their assault on the morning of 1st July. If you go into our cemetery, that's called Serre Road number one, many of the young men buried in there came from the 31st Division of the British Army, which was a new Army formation made up largely of pals, pals from the north of England, pit men from Leeds, Barnsley, clerical workers from businesses in Sheffield and other young men from Bradford, from Durham, from Accrington, and one of them in particular, Private Horace Iles, is buried in the cemetery and he was a member of the Leeds Pals, and I
00:12:59:19 - 00:13:21:12
Speaker 2
love to think about him because he received a letter from his sister in July, which she had clearly written at the end of June, without having had any news from Horace. And this is what his sister wrote. “We did hear that they were fetching everyone back from France who was under 19. For goodness sake, Horace, tell them how old you are.
00:13:21:17 - 00:13:39:03
Speaker 2
I am sure they will send you back if they know you are only 16. You have seen quite enough. Now just chuck it up and try to get back. You won't fare no worse for it. If you don't do it now, you will come back in bits, and we want the whole of you.” And that's from his loving sister Florrie.
00:13:39:08 - 00:14:01:18
Speaker 2
Unfortunately, before that letter reached him, he had already been killed with many of his Leeds pals. And when I can, I like to go and stand at his headstone there in Serre Road number one. And I like to think about his brothers and sisters and how their lives were changed by the fact that he went and he did his best and he died.
00:14:01:18 - 00:14:18:05
Speaker 2
And I liked to visit on their behalf in a way, because there's none of them left to visit him now. But I can go and I can look at the letter from his sister Florrie, and I could think about him and his family for a few minutes. So thinking of the pal's story, it's usually Horace Iles that comes back to me.
00:14:18:05 - 00:14:24:02
Speaker 1
You've done research into the inscriptions on the headstones. What's driven that research and what have you found?
00:14:24:02 - 00:14:47:09
Speaker 2
One of the incredibly wonderful things about the estate, the historic estate that the Commonwealth War Graves Commission looks after is that it was decided that there was going to be space on our markers for an inscription or an epitaph, if you like, that would be written in by the next of kin of the person commemorated. Not all of our markers have them.
00:14:47:09 - 00:15:10:21
Speaker 2
Only some families had the opportunity or chose to take the opportunity to write them, but they are one of the most wonderful aspects of visiting any of our sites is to be able to stand by someone's grave and maybe get a little bit of insight into who they were, or into who their families were, and into what they meant to people who have left behind.
00:15:10:22 - 00:15:37:09
Speaker 2
I never get tired of reading personal inscriptions, and I had to think about this knowing that if I talked to you, Matthew, you would probably ask me about them. A few years ago, I was working specifically on the topic of mothers and their relationship with and communication with the War Graves Commission, and I found the most incredible inscription on a grave of an Australian on the Somme, in a cemetery called Pozieres British Cemetery.
00:15:37:09 - 00:16:05:03
Speaker 2
Any Australians listening will immediately know the meaning of the word posy for the Australian experience on the Somme, and he was killed on the first day. I think of the Australian involvement in that part of the battle and this is what his mother asked for his headstone to say. “No shot can strike me in the heart, for I left that with you, mother.”
00:16:05:03 - 00:16:36:19
Speaker 2
I wonder if he wrote that to his mother in life in a letter from the battlefield. I wonder if she imagined him having written or said that. But it is very hard to be unaffected by many, many of the messages that you see at the feet of our headstones coming from parents, coming from wives, sometimes even mentioning children coming from friends, many of whom were writing something that they thought they would never stand in front and read for themselves.
00:16:36:19 - 00:16:43:03
Speaker 2
So those messages are really to you, the visitor, more than they ever were to the family themselves.
00:16:43:04 - 00:16:54:05
Speaker 1
I want to turn the lens, if I could, to the architectural landscape at the Somme. The CWGC, famous for the Thiepval Memorial. Tell us a little bit about that and what it's designed to do.
00:16:54:06 - 00:17:29:16
Speaker 2
Our cemeteries and memorials are permanent reminders of the fighting that took place on the Somme. Some are vast, some are dramatic, some are small and intimate, the largest of them all, and the most dramatic is our Thiepval Memorial, to the missing of the Somme. To just explain what that means, about half of the people that the War Graves Commission needed to commemorate by name at the end of the First World War were people who had no known grave, which includes members of the Navy who were, of course, buried or lost at sea.
00:17:29:17 - 00:17:55:11
Speaker 2
So about half of 1 million British and Commonwealth dead needed to be commemorated by name on a memorial, and the cheerful memorial, with 72,000 names, is our largest point of commemoration for those who died on the Somme and that need to be remembered by name. It's just under the ridge line at an incredibly important part of the old battlefields.
00:17:55:11 - 00:18:21:03
Speaker 2
What was the village of Thiepval and is between two very strong points in the original German front line of the 1st of July. The trees that surround it are now much bigger than the architect really probably would have envisioned when he designed it a hundred years ago, but it is incredible, and it really stands sentinel over the whole of the Somme battlefield, and it is an incredible place to visit.
00:18:21:03 - 00:18:42:20
Speaker 2
If you were only going to go to the Somme to see one thing, it would have to be the Thiepval Memorial before you went to any of the other cemeteries. Although there is a cemetery with the Thiepval Memorial, there's a cemetery just down the slope called the Anglo-French Cemetery. And this cemetery is designed to remind people of the allied nature of the fighting on the Somme.
00:18:42:20 - 00:18:55:03
Speaker 2
It has 300 French graves and 300 British and Commonwealth graves. So exactly the same number. And it's there to attest to the fighting side by side in the battle of the Somme.
00:18:55:04 - 00:19:22:12
Speaker 1
You were mentioning Serre Road. Serre Road number one. Serre Road number two. There's thousands of graves in those cemeteries that are marked with the phrase “Known unto God”. And I think this is such a fascinating aspect of the work that the Commission continues to do, which is participating in modern forensic recovery work. What is the Commission's role in helping to identify and bury these soldiers, who may have been identified all these decades later?
00:19:22:12 - 00:19:56:12
Speaker 2
It's such a fascinating part of our work that has continued from the beginning of the organization right through into today, and will continue in the future. We work in partnership with our member governments to identify remains when remainder found, and also to deal with, not identifications, but we call them rededication, which is the identifying using documentary evidence of an existing grave that says “Known unto God” and can be accepted to be the grave of an identifiable individual.
00:19:56:13 - 00:20:29:22
Speaker 2
Just a few weeks ago in our cemetery, Adanac Military Cemetery, that's Canada backwards, named because it's a really important part of the battlefield for the forces of Canada on the Somme. A Canadian man was identified and has a new headstone just put up a few weeks ago. Because of this process of interrogating the records, doing research both within the Commission and outside the Commission and in the relevant department in the Canadian government to accept the fact that this was actually the grave of someone.
00:20:29:22 - 00:21:01:00
Speaker 2
And his name is William Webster Wilson. I was able to see a photograph of him because someone found it in the Book of Remembrance for his employer, which was a bank in Canada that had put together a book of remembrance for all of those they had lost in the First World War. But the thing about him that really struck me is that every generation of his family has used the name William Webster in a generation of children to remember the person that they have lost and truly lost because he was on a memorial to the missing.
00:21:01:00 - 00:21:34:14
Speaker 2
Nobody knew what had happened to him, except for the day that he had died and that he was missing in action. It's really wonderful to be able to sometimes turn headstones that say, “Known unto God” into named people that we now know are in those graves. In terms of recoveries of remains. The Commission is involved in France when human remains are found in what are considered to be the old battlefields, we're asked to help extract those remains when it's obvious that they are remains the date from the war, they stay in our care.
00:21:34:16 - 00:21:57:05
Speaker 2
We try to figure out whether we can tell to which member government they might belong. Canadian uniform, Australian uniform, British insignia, things like that. And then we involve the relevant authorities in terms of deciding what's possible to identify. Can we go out to relatives? Is there enough evidence to help make those sorts of decisions where it's possible to identify them?
00:21:57:06 - 00:22:25:19
Speaker 2
Of course, they'll be buried with a headstone that has their name, but many, many, many people who are found now more than 100 years after the beginning of the First World War. It's impossible to identify them. And so they go into a grave, usually in a very near cemetery, to where they have been found, with the idea that hopefully that is bringing them back together with other people that they would have been together with in life, they'll receive a headstone with those immortal words: “Known unto God”.
00:22:25:20 - 00:23:02:11
Speaker 2
Those were written by Rudyard Kipling, Rudyard Kipling, the great famous author and poet and the original wordsmith for the War Graves Commission. Not only was he a man gifted with words, who helped the Commission a lot, both publicly and behind the scenes, with how the commission's work was explained with what people read about it, but also with words you still see in our cemeteries today dedications on memorials, the words on the Stone of remembrance that you find in our larger sites that really encapsulate the spirit of the work of the Commission, which is their name, liveth for evermore.
00:23:02:11 - 00:23:28:01
Speaker 2
But he also lost a child in the First World War, and I mean lost, as in he went into action and he never came back. He is one of the missing, or at least he was one of the missing for the rest of Rudyard Kipling's life. So when Rudyard Kipling saw the designs for potential headstones to go over the graves of people that had been unidentified, he did not like the use of the word unidentified or unknown.
00:23:28:01 - 00:23:44:15
Speaker 2
And he said “they aren't unknown, they're known unto God”. And so that's why our headstones, for people who we've not been able to identify, have those words. It's a direct link to Rudyard Kipling, who was himself a bereaved father when he did his work for the War Graves Commission.
00:23:44:15 - 00:23:54:14
Speaker 1
This July marks the 110th anniversary of the Somme. Can you give us a preview of what folks can look forward to and how they can join in, whether it's in person or virtually.
00:23:54:14 - 00:24:20:22
Speaker 2
Anything that the Commission is involved with or has heard about and is helping to spread. The word on can be found on our website. If you come to, there will be a dedicated section that's going to point your attention towards things. Somme 110. There will be a large commemorative ceremony on the 1st of July at Thiepval Memorial, and more information about that is available on our website.
00:24:20:23 - 00:24:47:01
Speaker 2
I know that the commune in the area, the French commune, are doing a lot of small and large events and happenings to mark the 110th anniversary, and then if you're going to be there, I would definitely suggest having a look at what the French are offering. It's not just our events that are going on. We provide the stage in our cemeteries and at our memorials, which many, many organizations, groups and private individuals use and really recommend.
00:24:47:01 - 00:25:22:13
Speaker 2
If people can't visit now, it's great that it's a special round number year, but any time is a good time to visit the battlefields if you're interested in them. Our cemeteries and memorials are always open. They always look as well as it's possible for them to look under the circumstances. If you go in February, it will look different to going in July, and we just really want to encourage people to have a look around wherever they are in the world, and see if there is a Commonwealth War Graves Commission cemetery or memorial that they could drop in and visit, see some of the men and women that we commemorate.
00:25:22:14 - 00:25:44:19
Speaker 2
Have a look online at Forevermore our stories portal to discover the stories of some of those we commemorate. Please consider adding a story. If there is anyone we commemorate that you know about or could find out about, we would love to have more information about any of them. 1.7 million men and women that we commemorate.
00:25:45:00 - 00:25:51:19
Speaker 1
Lynelle, as we look to the future. How is the next generation learning about these events, and what kind of resources are available for teachers and students?
00:25:51:19 - 00:26:17:03
Speaker 2
Different parts of the world come to the Somme and the history of the First World War in many different directions. No matter how you get to the commemoration of the men and women who served in the world Wars, the commission is available both digitally and physically to help be a part of someone's learning journey. We have a specifically tailored resources for educational use that can be found on our website.
00:26:17:03 - 00:26:44:22
Speaker 2
We'd like to call out specifically is our resource called One Day in a World War? Because that takes you beyond the 1st of July. It takes you to a date later in the campaign, and also allows you to look at what was happening across the whole world on that particular day, reminding us that while the Somme is incredibly important, it's only one chapter of a huge world war that took people from everywhere to many other places, many of whom we now commemorate.
00:26:44:23 - 00:27:22:02
Speaker 2
The other one I wanted to mention is specifically Somme related. We have something new out that talks about the service of J.R.R. Tolkien, which some of you will have heard of thanks to his work on novels like Lord of the Rings. And I'm sure any of you who have read or watched the Peter Jackson Lord of the Rings and know anything about the First World War on the Western Front can probably start to draw parallels quickly between how they imagine service on the Western Front might affect the imagination of such a creative and gifted writer, so it's really fascinating to have a look at the Somme through the lens of Tolkien and his friends.
00:27:22:02 - 00:27:30:13
Speaker 2
So his very close friends from school, of course, also caught up in the conflagration and also served and of course, some of whom died.
00:27:30:14 - 00:27:38:06
Speaker 1
For our listeners who were moved by this work and want to take action, how can they support the Commission and also the Commonwealth War Graves Foundation?
00:27:38:07 - 00:28:02:16
Speaker 2
The Commonwealth War Graves Commission is funded for our physical cemetery and memorial work by six member governments. And so those are the big six member governments. If you think about the British Empire during the first and the Second World War. So that would be Australia, Canada, India, New Zealand, South Africa and the United Kingdom. They made a promise to fund our work from the beginning, and they still do.
00:28:02:18 - 00:28:27:10
Speaker 2
The extra, the wonderful, the special, increasing education work, the stories portal on the website, our guide program where young people come and guide people around Thiepval on the Somme for a few months in the summer. This sort of work is funded through donations to our Commonwealth War Graves Foundation. This is a way that you can support our work directly.
00:28:27:10 - 00:28:50:10
Speaker 2
You can join the foundation. You can make a donation if you live in a place where it's possible to volunteer for us, check the website. Then you can volunteer to support us both physically but also online. For instance, I have a lovely group of research volunteers who don't have to be in any particular part of the world, and they're able to help us with some of the work that we do in the background for interpretation and for storytelling.
00:28:50:10 - 00:29:08:08
Speaker 2
So visit us, please. We make these beautiful places so that you can come and you can visit the men and women we commemorate, and you can spend some time thinking and remembering and considering the cost of global warfare. But also you can visit online and yes, you can support us through our foundation.
00:29:08:08 - 00:29:13:00
Speaker 1
When someone's considering a visit to the Somme, what are some of those sites that they should be checking out?
00:29:13:01 - 00:29:20:17
Speaker 2
Oh, this is actually such a hard question. It's a bit like asking people about favorite children or asking people who like books, favorite books.
00:29:20:17 - 00:29:22:05
Speaker 3
But I will do my best.
00:29:22:06 - 00:29:42:00
Speaker 2
Obviously you have got to go to the Thiepval Memorial. The heart of the commemoration of the battle of the Somme. But beyond that, I would suggest you go to some of the bigger ones and also some of the smaller ones. So I would consider going to Serre Road number two, which is our largest cemetery on the former battlefields of the Somme.
00:29:42:00 - 00:30:08:03
Speaker 2
Many of the people buried there have the headstones that say Known unto God. But there's a really interesting small part of original burials in the heart of the cemetery that was made much larger after the war. And I really like that combination of original wartime burials then developed into a beautiful, architecturally significant site after the war. So, Serre Road number two, if you're interested in the end of the battle.
00:30:08:03 - 00:30:35:16
Speaker 2
So the fighting through October and November go down into the valley of the Ancre river, which is much more important actually for the British and Commonwealth troops than the Somme. The song was more in the French sector. So down by the Ancre river there's a beautiful cemetery called Ancre British Cemetery, where there are many, many graves of men from the Royal Naval Division who died right near the end of the great offensive on the Somme in November 1916.
00:30:35:16 - 00:31:07:11
Speaker 2
And then, oh wow, there's so many to choose from. I would head south down to the horseshoe of woods famous for the fighting in July, August and September. So late July, August and September and go to somewhere like Dantzig Alley British Cemetery has an incredible viewpoint, a successfully taken objective on the 1st of July, which then gives you the view down into that horseshoe of woods where the fighting would stay for the next many weeks, and then Caterpillar Valley.
00:31:07:13 - 00:31:28:03
Speaker 2
Oh yes, Caterpillar Valley Cemetery has one of the memorials to the missing for the New Zealand troops, reminding people that this is not a British battle by itself. The representatives, their forces there from all the rest of our member governments and Caterpillar Valley again, is a place to think about that part of the battle in July, August and September.
00:31:28:03 - 00:31:48:05
Speaker 2
And then I think you have to pick a small one. On the way to Caterpillar Valley, there's one called Quarry Cemetery, Montauban, which is small and hidden and just reminds you that of the men at the time that we're using every form of cover that the battlefield might offer. And in that little cemetery, you'll be able to see people that were doing artillery observation.
00:31:48:05 - 00:32:10:06
Speaker 2
And some of those sides of the war are down there in Quarry. But honestly, get there. Give yourself a day, two days, three days. Consider a bicycle, maybe more than a car to really like immerse yourself in the landscape. Pick some little ones, pick some medium sized ones. And of course, the queen, looking over all of them is Lutyens.
00:32:10:06 - 00:32:12:14
Speaker 2
Incredible Thiepval Memorial.
00:32:12:18 - 00:32:24:14
Speaker 1
Lynelle Howson, historian for the Commonwealth War Graves Commission, thank you so much for coming on the show and for everything that you and your team do to keep these memories alive for generations to come. Thanks again for coming on the show.
00:32:24:15 - 00:32:32:11
Speaker 2
Thank you very much for having me, Matthew.
00:32:32:13 - 00:32:45:13
Speaker 1
Thanks so much for tuning in. Story. Behind the Stone is available on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, and on the Rise Across America Radio Network on iHeartRadio. Audacity and tune in to search for wreath.
00:32:45:15 - 00:32:46:16
Speaker 1
Thank you for tuning in.