Heat (Part 4)

Heat (1995) Part 4: The Epic Bank Heist Shootout Breakdown! 

Ready for the iconic Heat bank heist shootout? Join The Director’s Chair Network for Part 4 of our Heat (1995) deep dive with host Ryan and guest Katie from Retromade! We unpack Michael Mann’s legendary crime epic, focusing on the intense 34-minute segment featuring Robert De Niro, Al Pacino, and that unforgettable downtown LA shootout.
 

This episode dives into the heart of Heat—the bank heist and its chaotic aftermath. We analyze Michael Mann’s stylistic brilliance, the De Niro-Pacino dynamic, and the film’s flaws, like questionable writing and character depth. From the tense score to the unrealistic cop tactics, we cover it all with humor and critical insight. Plus, we debunk rumors about De Niro and Pacino’s on-set relationship!

Creators and Guests

Host

Katie Geilenkirchen

Host

Ryan Rebalkin

What is The Director's Chair Network?

Join Ryan and many featured guests and other hosts as they break down and review a variety of directors and their films!
So far, this podcast has featured films from Edward Zwick, John Hughes, Brian De Palma, and Michael Mann.
Soon, we will feature Edgar Wright, Sam Peckinpah, Paul Verhoeven, and David Fincher!

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heat heat
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[Music]
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[Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause]
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[Applause] good day and welcome to another episode
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of Heat this is part four we are on the director's charity network i am your host Ryan and I have with me today
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for Oh wait you Yeah you've done Michael Man i was like we've done Ed Swift together i was already ready for that
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but yeah we have returning Last in Moakans that's right returning guest co-host Katie katie and I covered Last
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in Moheakans she wasn't as thrilled by that movie as I had hoped that's okay
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she's going to maybe redeem herself with the heat coverage i didn't dislike it i just it it wasn't my favorite movie of
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all time you know no okay i didn't ask for it to be your favorite film of all time that was not the criteria but uh
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have you gone back and revisited or anything or No there's just so many things to watch trust me I understand i
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I haven't rewatched it since we watched it but I haven't seen Heat in a really long time until last night so yeah I'm
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I'm curious to hear your thoughts of course about that i love podcast with you Katie you're always a treat you have
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your own podcast of course called RetroAde podcast where you cover of course John Hughes films at this time
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because people who are listening to this on this network feed are like yeah Ryan I know we listen to Katie and your show
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is doing well there on the director's charity network but you have your own standalone feed why don't you tell our
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listeners what else they can listen to on that feed of yours yeah so my first
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season was not a specific director it was around 80s and '90s movies of the
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beautiful the wonderful Patrick sees and Kurt Russell who I dubbed the ultimate Everyman that's super fun i think that
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was great by the way yeah great coverage all the films I never heard of mhm yeah
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there's some there's some little gems in there some surprises in there and then of course all of our favorites so go
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back check out RetroAde and check out the first season and then next season will be something different all together
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have you pinned it i know we talked about it i won't say but have you have you refined it more or No I haven't i
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because it's going to be a while it's going to be a while until we get there got several John Hughes movies to Yeah
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John Hughes has quite the library and I'm going to be sad when you're kind of done your director's coverage because
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not that you're going to leave the network the network will always be open to you of course anytime you want to cover and you'll come guest with me I'm sure anyways in future episodes but it's
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kind of nice having Dealma and John Hughes and now Ed Zwick and now Michael Man there's four directors being covered
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on the network it's great it's growing and uh it is then I hearing your coverage from time to time you will
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bring up oh maybe I should cover this one or this one or this one it's kind of exciting to hear about these other directors oh yeah that guy did that one
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and he said so but season my next season just again will be Terrence Malik for
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sure oh I'm unfamiliar yeah boy he's an artsy fartsy director so it's kind of
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like he's if you know who he is you know who he is but if you don't you don't if that makes sense his big movie in recent
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years that made a splash at the box office was The Thin Red Line the World
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War II movie The Thin Red Line he also did Tree of Life with Brad Pitt and Shan Penn okay basically he is poetry on film
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oh interesting okay yeah the narrative is poetry everything's poetry and the
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film in its own images and narration and music so some people don't like that
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um I guess I sometimes do if it's well done I'll like it so this will be interesting it'll be an interesting
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journey for sure yeah and I haven't seen Elvis films just like all these other ones i've seen the ones that I've seen but I haven't done the whole library so
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Terrence Mal will be a nice one to complete okay all right so Michael Man this is Heat part four hopefully
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everyone has enjoyed the first three parts to the journey of heat we are on the fourth set of 34 minutes of film
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coverage that's what we'll be doing today folks as we've been doing for the other three episodes so far it's worked out and I'm glad Craig of course
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suggested this i'm glad he did because this is one I didn't want to rush each 34m minute segment seems to have a a
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memorable scene and or scenes moments character building and of course Katie
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you some would say maybe you lucked out but this scene has the quote unquote shootout but before we get to of course
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our segment what is your overall Well you talked about it on Last Moheakans uh but maybe people didn't listen to that
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episode so what's your brief overall knowledge or fandom of Michael Man films yeah he's a name I know but I couldn't
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have named any Michael Man movies in fact I'm really surprised after you kind
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of informing me that he's very stylistic heat while stylistic is very character
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and dialogueheavy there's just like a lot going on so it's it's kind of surprising to me
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there is a lot going on and behind the curtains here I don't mind sharing this with the listeners and my co-hosts
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because I've seen this film before not a lot four five times all the way
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through throughout the years with this viewing I've actually only been viewing the movie per episode so I
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haven't seen the last 34 minutes yet at the time of recording oh okay so for this viewing experience I've literally
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have been watching the movie as 34 minute blocks for each recording session and what's been interesting by doing it
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that way it's almost every week or every two weeks that's when I record it feels like I'm watching a miniseries
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that's a good way to put it in fact it probably should have been because it is
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like almost a 3-hour long movie but there's so much introduced like again I
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hadn't seen this movie in a while and I remember really loving it i mean obviously there's two big reasons why
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people initially went to see this movie of course and it's extremely well rated it's um I think it's pretty high rated
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probably 8.3 it's 8.3 um IMDb yeah that's pretty high i mean that's pretty
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high it's extremely high it's extremely high not that I was disappointed but I guess I kind of left feeling like I
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needed more there are a lot of characters to keep track of and that's how I sort of felt about The Godfather
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and we got three installments those were long movies but I think we needed like another installment of heat um
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really it's interesting craig brought up the book and I wonder if the book flushes out some of the stuff we're talking about cuz there's a lot a lot of
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people introduced and it's one of those movies you have to watch more than once I think to kind of re remember or
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realize pick up who everybody is and I felt that way about Godfather as well so
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I kind of liken it to that and and I feel like in some ways the movie I was like why did we even introduce this
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character like there were a couple people that I was like why did like Dennis Hayes for example that's a good
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question i mean it's a fair question i should say I I don't know if it's a good question i'm just joking it's a fair question because his character I think
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what it's showing is the system of rehabilitation and how
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quickly someone's hopeful trajectory of rehabilitation can take such a terrible I think it shows you the corrupt we
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talked about it Sully and I on episode three we talked about how the corruption
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of the parole officer with this uh diner that the pole officer was probably
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taking a cut you know yeah but I needed more i needed more of him like he Well I
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get I know I mean for character I get what you're saying what I'm trying to get at is because it's
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we don't know much about him we don't know why he went to jail we just know that he spent time with Dairo and Dairo's character in the slammer we know
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that he had a woman that was waiting for him on the outside so when you know he already had a relationship good to go
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and she was waiting for him she supported him during his imprisonment mhm
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it's just to show us the corruptness of that part of the system and I guess how
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much time do you spend on it i'm not disagreeing with you i Well that's why I think I wanted more i think there was
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more to his story that we could have seen when I do a podcast on a movie I watch it with a more critical eye than
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perhaps I used to of course you do yeah yeah and so they're at the diner and they're like "Oh you see that guy
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whoever knew him from his time in jail and that he's like a getaway driver."
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That happens before they know that Tjo can't cuz they already have a getaway driver you're right they're the world is
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so small they just It's not very well written this is some of the criticisms that my final hosts who I've not yet
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named because they'll introduce themselves i would would not be surprised if he will bring up the
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writing or the dialogue or some of the tropes it was very convenient that they're at the diner where you know they
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get it was like they planned it like "Oh we're going to plan on using this but then they they don't yet know that Tjo
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can't do it you know until the phone call then after the phone call you're right." After the phone call then they're like "Oh isn't this convenient
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if we just walk over to the guy who happens to be you know he wasn't even on his lunch break he happened to be right there on the line cooking food during
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the same time." Yeah so that's not a very well-ritten scene there should have been a different way of doing they
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should have gone to the diner seen him before gone back to the diner and then had the like the first sorry they should
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had an earlier scene even maybe the scene at the beginning of the film where they slammed the guy Wayne Wang girl's head into the table that should have
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been the same diner and they could say isn't that weird buddy that we used to work with he's here too you know and
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then they go back to the diner get the phone call from trail saying hey look I'm being tailed I can't come meet you and then they go hey well hey since we
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saw you remember we saw you a couple weeks ago well you want a job yeah so it's just weird that the same day they
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get the phone call that they Yeah it's too convenient but well I do love that Danny Tjo plays a character named Tjo
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yeah it took me It threw me off for I think Treyo portrayed us i'm like wait
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are you talking about Danny Treyo like we can't I had forgotten a lot about this movie i forgotten a lot of the people who were in it particularly Danny
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Tjo i had forgotten that he was in this at all but yeah I'm with you and that probably tells you how long it's been
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since I seen the film because same when I saw the film for the first time that I know who Trey was i knew who Xander
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Berkeley is by his face and he was the guy that was sleeping with Pacino's wife like I know who that is i know his name
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is Xander Berkeley oh really i mentioned before I'm a huge fan of 24 so Dennis Hayes played the president in 24 and
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Xander Berkeley was in 24 so my fandom of 24 okay was after this movie and 24
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has already been off the air for 10 years i think it's been 25 years since I've seen this film i probably haven't seen it again since it's released
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watched it a couple times on DVD and then 25 years go by and I haven't seen it since because I'd forgotten about
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Hayesburg in it i forgot about Zer Berkeley in it i forgot about Trey Hope being in it who else was Hankeria being
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in it i just forgot about all these people that were in it all the women I had I kind of forgot who was who like
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who was paired up with who natalie Portman i forgot about that whole story line too there's just a lot of familiar
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faces tom Seismore i'd forgotten about him i knew I knew that's the thing i forgot what happened like at the end i
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totally forgot what happened we're going to get to some of those scenes oh I also forgot about John Voy being hit what do
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you think of John Voy's hair oh my god you know what it reminded me of so I'm not a fan of him as a per I think he's a
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crazy person in real life oh he might be i don't know yeah um but his hair in
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this kind of reminded me of his character in uh Ray Donovan i haven't seen that i know you haven't
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while I'm not a John Voit fan he's really good in Ray Donovan like well that's You might not be a fan of him as
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a person but is he a good actor in Donovan yeah that's what I'm saying he was he was really good in that but uh Oh
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he's tough it's tough when you kind of don't know about their personalities or their real life and just like man but I
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really enjoyed their art i guess that's what makes it art not the person they're an actor right now one person that I do
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love both in real life and as an actor is one Mr bobby D well we're getting to
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it is this our first time together we've done a few shows together where we've actually on air have really talked about
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Bobby Diero like No I think it's just that I Yeah he is my favorite actor
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would you have run off with him 100% even though he drops [ __ ] on her and
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that's like the second they don't really know each other they've like slept together twice and that's kind of it all
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I knew that's all I need to know um but she must be a great lady because she has a pretty like
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crimefree easygoing life it's like yeah I'll drop it for Bobby yeah she works at
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a bookstore i did look up like how old he I think I'm Yeah he looks so good in
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this he does this is peak i'm I totally agree with you casino era Cape Fear to
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Casino like these are peak actors who are men there's there seems
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to be a peak look to a certain age to a man and I think it's like 45 to 55 is
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that real man they have the manliness to them and which I will never reach i'm
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nearing 50 and I one day I'll Well lucky you maybe when you're 75 you'll like oh my gosh I'll never be a man one day no
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it's it's just that you're youthful looking you don't have that like like grizzled i not I know I'm not grizzled
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it's I I don't know what's wrong with me anyways yeah but you look at Bobby and Al was 55 in this film and you you look
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at them and they have that kind of they're still sprite enough to run you know there's a scene of Alpacino running
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with the shootout it's like yeah I can see Alpuccino running you know he's tiny but he can still run and he's not too
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old to run i run like I said I'm I'm nearing 50 and I run every day okay and so it's like oh he could run down the street and same with Bobby you know like
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he looks good he looks fit he looks he looks really fit like he you know well Kay Fear was only Well I guess that was
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89 was it 890 this is 95 um so he's six seven years removed from that but but
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still he Yeah his his shape is still good dairo's acting we mentioned it with Doug of course when we did the one scene
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with him just on the phone the way he looks at the apartment there's something about his stoic the way he's able to
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look and I didn't get it out with Sully on the last episode i try I try I can't
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I don't think I was able to relay it to him very well i'll do it with you that
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their dinner scene the way Robert Dairo looks at Alpuccino across the tail i
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just use their actor's names the character's name oh the way he does his
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head tilt and he does his mouth thing and he doesn't quite look at L the way
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Robert Dairo is able to do the mouth and eye acting that he does yeah he's so
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good if I try to do that I'll just look I might have like a Yeah well you have to be able to sell dangerous or you know
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like tough guy uh I wouldn't be able to either but I just think he's brilliant i
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just brilliant aside from the fact that I find him extremely attractive uh I I
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He's not the dangerous thing there's a little bit is that true Katie the bad boy there a little bit of bad boy in him
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a little bit of a dangerous streak in him definitely and you know he's Italian yeah you know I have a thing for that
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darkness i know he's acting i know same with Joe Peshy has that too and I know they're
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acting i know they're actors they're not criminals but I wonder if there's a part of the actor I won't say Robert i'm not
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trying to uh disparrage anybody here but I wonder what actors like Robert Dairo
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and Aluccino when they uh when they do those tough man scenes of
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like just when he comes in to talk to uh Ashley Jud's character in the hotel and slams the hangers you know is there a
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part of him that he's feeling it like you know what I mean by that like I do and I'm not that
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way like I look I've been angry in my life i get it but there's certain actors who are able to pull off that kind of energy where I'm like how deep are you
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digging are you just kind of naturally you can go there well in some people's personality like even like a man that
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isn't you know he might be an accountant or but that's maybe not a good good example but a salesman or whatever but
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like you know regular dudes can have like a coolness like a suavveness to
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them that eludes that bad boyess so maybe Robert the person just kind of has
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that in um Yeah I think so i think so no he was peak Robert here i agree and I I
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love him uh we're going to show some scenes of him of course coming up here what's your thoughts on L we know you
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love Robert Dairo of course but what's your thoughts on Alpuccino do you enjoy his films have you sought out his films
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or are you just like "Oh he happens to be in his films so I'm going to watch them." In my book probably in the top 10 of actors okay i do think Robert Dairo
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is a whatever i enjoy Robert's films better and it was just so cool to see
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these two who who are kind of considered you know they're about the same age they're both like Italian American they
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were both in The Godfather 2 they go up for similar roles and so it was a big
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deal these two guys that are kind of known as the best actors of our time
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yeah they were the acting version of Sorcerer Stallone like they were the actor's version of that yeah great
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analogy so I mean that was like a really big draw for this movie i do seek out Alpuccino's movies okay more so his
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older stuff i don't like his yelly pacino in later years as much it's just
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you don't like the she's got a big ass or what i actually kind of did but he just kind of overd does it i think it's
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like become a stick what's your theory what's your theory is it is it Michael Man telling him to do this or is Al saying Oh it's Al it's Al al he's that
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way in so many other movies it's Al i just love how the script says "Okay uh give me all you got." It says the script
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says "Give me all you got." And Al Rez goes "No no no no i'm going to slam the table."
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Why does he do that why did he do that it's Alino's over-the-top nature like
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yeah I don't know he recently wrote a book like a memoir and I I read it it was very good yeah so I do very much
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like al but it's just funny where Michael man as
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a director I wonder if he said okay great L i I love the energy i I love that you slammed the table and uh yelled
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give me all I got give me all you I got and then go back talk normal can we just try it once without the L let's see how
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that work boy I would have been really I'm curious to learn more about Michael
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Mann now because I would have felt in over my head directing this he didn't direct them he didn't direct that's what
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I mean i think Michael the Morcine of his films his thing is
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and this is where I can see again I'm not going to speak for the host the final host but I don't think Michael man
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is concerned about character and yeah this is his biggest character film but I don't know if he
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handled it great i don't think he's a great dialogue writer i don't think he's a great um maybe even
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but I think he's a great camera performer and there's shots and
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angles that are just so cool to look at i think he makes cool films i think films that are cool to look at they're
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aesthetically pleasing there's some shots that are just oh that's cool i like that shot i like that you know the guy in the front the guy in the back or
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those type of shots there's a few in our 30 minutes of film whereas Ed Zwick which you covered I think Ed is very
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concerned about the relationship part of things he's very concerned about the emotion of the character every character
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is important everyone has a purpose on screen where I think Michael uses the characters to say "Hey you want to see a
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cool shootout scene or do you want to see an over-the-top grieving mother with Aluccino?" Just I think he just shows
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you things that look cool yeah yeah and he tells a cool story with cool characters and everyone's just cool and
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it's just a cool story i don't know if it's very cohesive this this movie watching through that
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critical eye Katie I'm not going to say I didn't I haven't enjoyed this film as much that cuz I got to be careful here
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because I do enjoy the film but my ranking system of the Michael Man films when I'm done this season will be very
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interesting where this lands the coolness factor of the so and I don't want to give more ammunition to my final
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host because like I want him to come in with guns blazing but I I can say
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without hearing his comments that it's not as a cohesive film as I thought and there's a lot of shallness to the
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characters like you were talking about but every scene and segment so much fun
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to watch so I don't know I think you have to make your piece with I I love the albino over the top it's fun to
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watch I love how cool Daeniro is in every scene how he looks cool talks cool the way he is but I don't understand the
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way they travel the relationships the high scene which we can start playing very shortly here it didn't quite make
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sense like where are they what are they shooting at it was actually like what's going on it was I was actually unclear
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of what was happening i very much echo your sentiments i remembered this movie
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being awesome like so amazing and it's not
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okay i have a theory before I mean it's very good i again before people hang up their phone yeah yeah yeah sorry let me
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just No no no it's okay you're a lot boy katie comes in and craps over the last No no I like it a lot i very much like
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Heat i'm just bugging it what I'm getting at is I think what Heat has done cuz I haven't seen in 25 years what he
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did for films is it set up the Christopher Nolan that we have mhm i think Christopher Nolan borrowed heavily
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from Michael Man's aesthetics and realism and things like that and other films like this so what we're seeing is
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we're seeing the first iPhone or the first computer and so we're like I thought this was amazing when it came
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out i thought these graphics were Well they were when you experienced heat for the first
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time there was nothing like this it's been improved upon and that's the
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problem so when we go back to the old Commodore 64 when I was a kid to play on Yeah i I didn't think anything would
22:58
beat Pitfall or Frogger right like that's all I ever needed was Frogger why
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would you need anything more than Frogger or Pitfall oh then the Super Nintendo comes out oh and then PC games
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okay so what we're remembering is the joy of experiencing something for the first time and this film brought out
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aesthetics and coolness and the high energy and realism of shootouts and uh
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so I think what happened is other films have improved upon the formula and then we go back to heat we're like hey that
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wasn't as right I'll use Christopher Nolan I think he stole sort of Michael
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man's mantle a little bit and ran and ran with it rightfully so he's incredible writer and film filmmaker so
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I also think there's something to the Alpuccino and Robert Jiro in the same movie of course was a a huge deal and um
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I don't know if you're going to talk about the rumors you know at the time about Oh go ahead i don't think we've
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mentioned the word rumors yet well you know there was rumors that these two didn't like each other
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and really where I mean I believe you where did you get that from well again I didn't research it before the show i
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just remember hearing about you know cuz they weren't ever on screen together in
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Godfather 2 that's right and it was like oh and they're in the same movie you know they're they're playing against
24:19
each other but because of the way that it was shot they were never actually face to face
24:27
when Robert was talking we see the back of Alpacino's head and vice versa it was always shot that way except for maybe
24:35
maybe the very final scene the rumor was that it was a standin that they didn't like each other and didn't want to be in
24:41
scenes together that was the rumor maybe it was just like one of those things like the kid from Wonder Years is
24:46
Marilyn Manson like one of those rumors i don't think it's the case i think that that has been debunked but that was a
24:52
rumor i just covered that scene with part three and I don't recall them not
24:59
but I see what you're saying like you know at the classic Sopranos end sequence you see the whole family seat at the table like it's obvious they're
25:05
all there i'm trying to remember now do we see that with I purposefully paid attention to anytime they were in the
25:11
same scene they they showed one person it was like whoever was talking they'd
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go back and forth and then you'd see the other person the back of the other person's head the very final scene maybe
25:22
they probably but that kind of fueled these rumors that they didn't like each other i'm not trying to spread that
25:28
rumor i'm just recalling that that was a thing i think if I'd heard about that again it's been 25 years i just can't oh
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gee I going to remember everyone's fud as time yeah this movie was 30 years ago
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that's wild to me so and you know sometimes those kind of rumors were uh
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you know like to help make waves or like to oh let's go see this movie then when
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you watched the scene recently did you know the rumor before you watched the scene just recently i recall the rumor from 30 years ago i
25:59
was just curious because you just watched it if you were watching for the filming sequence if you caught that that it was and and because I recalled that
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like I knew about that being a thing with heat and Al and Robert Dairo therefore I purposefully watched for it
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and it is true except now I can't recall the very final scene but you don't ever
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see both their faces based on the evidence it is clear that Robert Dairo and Albuccino liked each other during
26:24
the film of heat their 50-year friendship marked by shared experiences mutual support and public demonstrations of affection suggests a positive working
26:31
relationship the debunked theory of discord combined with their light-hearted interactions to public forums reinforces this conclusion their
26:38
professional collaboration post heat further indicate a sustained amicable relationship likely enhancing their performances in heat through trust and
26:45
understanding key events of Dairo Pacio's Friendship and Heat collaboration 20th anniversary screening
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they attended together i don't believe it to be true but I remember though I've not seen this to you but to our
26:55
listeners is to our listeners too i recall it being a rumor but that it has since been debunked christopher Nolan
27:02
did a Q&A with Michael Man i forgot about that i may have to watch that as a bonus episode but the fact that those
27:08
scenes were shot the way they were fuels rumor the man confirmed that they shared their shots according to that Q&A in
27:15
2016 yeah yeah the conspiracy theorists out there probably were like "Oh see how
27:21
he shot this?" They'd be like "The camera's on Al." And we just see a person's head i'm sure it was actually
27:28
those two i I have a theory and again this is to the listener not to you that
27:33
they're so good at acting that when they're on set it probably came across like they they didn't like
27:40
each other because of the tension of the scene and I would be surprised if there's some
27:46
like key grip who's like "Oh man they could you tell they were like cuz these are like like classy actors or they
27:52
probably came on sett." But somehow the rumor got started and it
27:58
could have even been before this movie and then they were like "Oh yeah I don't know." Yeah i'm glad we investigated
28:04
that and cleared it up it's been debunked by Michael Man himself unless he's lying but uh in 2019 at the Irish
28:12
Man premiere Pacino and Dairo hugged and Aluccino said "I love you to Dairo when
28:18
I was in 2018." So there you go yeah they're friends they're friends of course they are i would be brokenhearted
28:23
if they if they Oh I would be too all right all right well let's get into it let's watch some of these scenes here so
28:29
of course starts off right away your 34 minutes of film starts right away with
28:34
the actual heist now I want to play a little bit of the music i love the soundtrack and that's again Michael Man
28:41
it might not be the same composer that he uses in each film since his time and thief but that motive whatever it is
28:47
that he likes he continues using throughout his film so whoever's composing his films like that's great
28:52
whatever you did before I want you to make it sound like this now last was an exception but I forgot to mention when
28:57
we did the recording together there was times during that film where like oh I hear it it was done in the classic way
29:04
of course like the more like the lush score but there were still moments of that Michael Mannism soundscapes last
29:11
week yeah very subtle of course cuz it's a very notably a not generic but um but
29:18
uh not standard but what you would expect from a epic type film soundtrack
29:24
soundtrack beautiful soundtrack in my opinion one of the most beautiful soundtracks ever however we're back to
29:29
it again with heat and just listen to the score here as Robert Dero's character enters the bank and everyone's
29:35
getting ready in position just this builds the tension so well
29:42
[Music]
29:51
now it just shows you the power of music he's just walking slowly into the bank yeah with the way it goes
29:58
Now if you're to take away that music or change the score it doesn't have the same tension it just gets you right away oh we're doing this that we're in the
30:05
bank it hypes up the anxiety level absolutely
30:10
so he's in the bank and of course looking is very you know he's very calm very stoic it shows the bank guards it
30:17
shows Val Kilmer's character walking i love how they're all wearing their earpieces this is hilarious i thought it was interesting now that they walk in
30:26
unmasked but then they put masks on to play Devil's Advocate speaking of
30:31
Alpuccino film they're not alarming anyone right now they're getting position that's all now they're in
30:37
position now they mask up cuz they don't want to mask up before they're in position to cause the chaos except for
30:43
Val doesn't until later i don't know i just thought it was interesting well cameras back then I wonder this is 95 so
30:49
CCTV wasn't I mean they were around especially probably in banks but Well but they didn't they disarm that the
30:55
system oh they did didn't they yeah they don't they don't show it did they show it i can't remember i don't think they
31:00
did but this is just for like people recognizing them like in real life so
31:06
the difference we're getting here now with this crew of course with this bank robbery now they're actually robbing a bank this is a big break big score I
31:13
should say and we saw in the opening film when they take down the armored truck that they left three dead poor
31:20
dead armored truck security guards here there's not one death no one gets killed the reason those three guys died is
31:27
because of um Wangro wangro Wangro killed them that's what that's exactly my point
31:32
that's what it means they're pulling off a bigger heist with less people but that the people they can trust and they don't
31:37
want to kill anyone they're using fear absolutely to get what they want they're punching people around but they want
31:43
everyone to go home to their families at the end of the day they don't want to murder anybody yeah and they even say as much i can't remember dao has like a
31:49
couple really good lines about that what he's up on the desk talking about yeah
31:54
yeah there is no way in hell this is like a big bank that car just has in its
32:00
vault those big blocks of cash mhm there's no world in which a single key
32:05
opens the vault right stay down we want to hurt no one we're here for the bank's
32:11
money not your money your money is insured by the federal government you're not going to lose a dime think of your families don't risk your life don't try
32:17
and be a hero right now I want you to sit on the floor and put your hands on your head anybody feel sick anybody got
32:24
heart trouble go ahead and lean against the wall so there you go make yourself comfortable while we rob like don't take
32:30
this personally just Yeah no he's absolutely right like this it's not your money i worked at a bank in college and
32:37
I actually did get robbed what at gunpoint yeah you did mhm so that's why
32:43
I was like the this vault vault situation it was an escaped convict too
32:48
you've never told me this this has never come up well it doesn't come up it doesn't well it was pretty traumatic
32:53
because a week later the same type of bank and he like he was pointing a gun
32:59
at us and made us go in the back vault room and count to 100 us he did leave but um but yeah that gun right in my
33:05
face take my money a week later a different
33:11
branch of the same brand of bank got robbed a week later and five people were
33:16
killed so it was from the same guy no different it was just like a happen
33:23
stance so yeah it was kind of traumatic but um yeah the and this was just like a
33:28
small community bank it wasn't like a big bank like this and so watching this I'm like one key is not opening the
33:35
vault like this this is happening way too easily also they don't know what the cash Oh actually what's his face
33:42
probably did tell him what the cash situation would be but it's very convenient it wasn't 12 million or
33:47
something yeah but like in what format like it was already bricked up perfectly
33:53
for them to quickly put in yeah they were in and out very quick they just put everything in a duffel bag and off they
33:59
went yeah yeah now we're back to the cop station and Albuccino and the gang they
34:05
receive a tip let's just watch it because they get a tip of the hit so here we go hey
34:13
you guys working the case on the Neil McCaulay the CIU Benny called in about a bank they're looking at or something
34:20
princ 11:30
34:26
okay so Hugh Benny remind me who that was again is that Henny Rollins character who said that hugh Benny is
34:34
the character the confidential form was Henry Rollins character is it okay i missed this the first time watching this
34:40
yesterday in preparation for today's episode so Hugh Benny played by Henry Rollins you know who that is now in the
34:45
charact so that's bodyguard he's calling in this score how did Wayne know about
34:51
the day and time did they talk about this yes so so there were a few things around this that
34:58
I was a little confused about i did assume that the informant was
35:05
orang related be because of Wangrove
35:11
they had already been talking about this heist when Wangro was still a part of the crew remind me when then well I
35:18
don't know not like the time stamp but like just like when this I could be making that up in my mind because there
35:25
was a point in time where Val Kilmer is like drunk at Dairo's house or at some
35:32
point they're talking about the neck the bank and um and Val's like I thought we were doing something else first and he's
35:38
like yeah that too but now there's this bank i guess I sort of assumed that they
35:43
have been planning this yeah it felt like he picked up Wangro at the
35:50
side of the road almost for that remember jumps in Tom Seismore's truck and Tom Seism like can you just shut up
35:56
I don't really know who you are you're not part of the gang so how does Wangro know oh that's right I forgot about that
36:02
so how does Wangro know like they're going to hit this bank 11:30 today and the editing here is not very good they
36:08
should have shown this scene right that we're watching right now before Dairo walked into the bank why they didn't do
36:14
that I don't know because they get the bank very quickly Cuz the way it's edited it indicates like well it's 11:30
36:20
but what time is it right now cuz the bank robbery is almost done by the time the CI so this is a bad edit
36:27
oh go ahead well we know that Wayne Gro knows cuz he goes to Vanzant that's why
36:33
they called it in he's like "Oh I can offer you something." So we assume that as a viewer but I guess I was sort of
36:41
confused that the characters in the movie Dairo ass doesn't assume that it was Wangro he
36:49
assumes that it was Treyjo i never said that either like he said the only person that knew about this was
36:55
Tjo and he's guess who wasn't there i mean which is logical but also I
37:01
immediately thought it was Wayne and not Tjo it's coming to me it's coming to me just wait just wait people are yelling
37:06
at us because the heat nerds are yelling at us yeah there's heat nerds then Jiro's character
37:13
we're jumping ahead here goes to Tjo and says "Why'd you do it?" He goes "Well
37:18
they had my woman they're going to kill my woman." Yep so it was Rollins character that beat it out of him so
37:25
that wasn't Wangirl wango didn't know when it was going to go down but he knew something was going to
37:31
happen like yeah it's like "Hey what's the next big score?" And like Trail's like "I don't know i don't know." But
37:36
fine beats out we're going to kill your woman goes fine they're going to hit the bank then Hugh Benny then calls the cops
37:41
saying "I've got information of their next big score." Yeah you're right because it turns out it was Trey Ho but
37:47
somehow we are led to believe and we knew that Wangro was involved in some way yeah but Wangro didn't know that that's what I mean he I answered my own
37:53
question he didn't know about this time and place it was Treyjo that knew that's That's what Dero was saying the only
37:59
person that knew was Tjo and then Tjo did know and he was the one that betrayed but even Dairo's character was
38:05
like they had his woman they're being like I get it like what are you going to do save the crew over your woman like I
38:11
get it like Yeah the other thing you're going to laugh at me two things about this scene one West Study yeah yeah last
38:19
Migans he's returning for you i immediately noted him the other thing is
38:24
that I knew Ted Lavine was in this i watched the movie all the way through the credits last night and know where he
38:31
was in the whole movie uhhuh i confused two characters
38:36
he's listed as Bosow so he's one of these cops he gets killed in the uh Yeah yeah he's the first death actually yeah
38:42
the entire time I was watching the movie I thought Ted Lavine was
38:49
cuz he has the same look as Buffalo Bill i even said in our first episode the
38:54
name Kevin Graange or whatever his name you may have and I just I don't know how dare you not listen to every iota I give
39:00
the episode but I hadn't watched the movie again yet i only watched the movie last night if you're not listening to it
39:06
Katie no one's listening you're my You're you're to quote Star Wars a film that you never watch you're my only hope
39:11
Katie no I do listen but I literally for a second was like did they screw up the
39:18
Oh yeah they screwed up could have It could have been I I know but I was like "Oh my god." Because it's like literally
39:24
the same character as Buffalo Bill i totally thought Ted Lavine was um Wangro
39:32
so a little bit of a bad edit i did and I didn't realize it to watch this now actually no i did think of that no
39:37
that's not true when I watched this yesterday this segment I thought to myself boy they better hurry cuz they're
39:43
telling the cops "You better get there it's 11:30." Well like when's this call coming in noon they've already been
39:49
doing this for 10 minutes at least inside the bank 7 to 8 minutes at least by the time Daryl walks in they walk out
39:54
with the money 5 minutes so already they're too they're already too late well he even says that oh [ __ ] they're
40:00
coming out already or something like that right but yeah that's what I mean so when did But they must be very close
40:05
like downtown traffic and everything so when did they get the CI like 11:20
40:11
11:15 that's why it should have happened cuz they haven't been there for 15 minutes so this is what I'm getting at
40:16
the timing is wrong mhm cuz they're literally walking out the door after 5 minutes so you're telling me the cops
40:22
went from their office to this location in a matter of 5 minutes yes that's what
40:28
we're led to believe that's what we're That's impossible unless the cop station is literally a block away around the
40:33
corner yeah this is what I mean michael Man sets up cool shots but he's not
40:39
concerned about continuity or how did we get here or why are the characters doing this i don't know if he's Yeah and this
40:47
shootout it's fun like shootouts are fun in movies but there is no concern for
40:52
bystanders none like at all other than them yelling "Get down get down get down." And Aluccino constantly shoving
40:58
people out of the way get down get down like they're just out in the open with women children everybody shooting
41:05
shooting shooting shooting automatic weapons with automatic weapons not like a pistol well wasn't there an actual
41:12
bank robber shootout after this film came out same idea
41:17
well that's what happened at the my bank branch too like no but I meant with the cops and the good and bad guys like
41:24
maybe maybe there's a lot of people around here i agree there's a lot of people around and their safety is not
41:29
really like I would be like let's let the money go in fact Tom Seismore's
41:35
character and I thought "Oh that's smart." He picks up a child thinking the cops are not going to shoot me i'm
41:41
holding a child and Alpuccino does and I'm like there is no way because even if
41:47
you trusted your marksmanship to shoot his head he's holding a child would that happen ever no no no no there's no way
41:56
with that kind of weapon too to do that kind of precision shot maybe a sniper on a roof maybe but Tom's moving around the
42:03
kid's moving around you talk him off the ledge because the person holding the baby or the child doesn't shoot the
42:09
child right away because they're like "Well that's my only if I shoot the kid then I'm dead anyways." the bad guys
42:15
quote unquote had the cops been 30 seconds later driving had they hit a
42:20
red light or I don't know someone forgot their I don't know they would have again
42:26
it's a movie trope i understand that but they're just about to get away and the cops are spotted see character get down
42:34
move it move it get I love how they're yelling get down get down before they're even like there's that music
42:42
so the guy that we just saw that's blondhaired and balding but it's short hair that's Ted Lavine wild okay that's
42:48
Buffalo Bill what I love is the cops they got out way early which is interesting i don't know why they didn't
42:54
just box the car in good point because all but Chris which by the way it's
42:59
really hard there are two characters in this movie that I think they should have renamed because they don't go with the
43:05
actor there is no world that Val Kilmer is named Chris oh it doesn't go it
43:12
doesn't go everybody's in the car except him also Neil can I point out Neil neil
43:19
can you name him something else neil does not go this is what I mean about this is that the cops dump their cars a
43:28
block away cuz they're walking quickly towards them and exiting what was their game plan good question i'm not law
43:35
enforcement i wish Doug was here for this because they're just walking the street right now they're armed yes but
43:40
they're walking the street to do what you're under arrest freeze
43:46
wouldn't it been better just to follow the car yes get a helicopter on top of it but that wouldn't have allowed for
43:52
this epic shootout in downtown LA i understand but this is what I mean so
43:58
yes it's a cool shootout but I'm talking now objectively and critically of the
44:04
story writing because as much as Michael Man wanted to keep things real this doesn't make sense
44:10
i don't think this is real cop procedures and and they're already the cops are already yelling "Get down get
44:15
down move it." It's like are you alerting because who's yelling "Get
44:21
down." They're not coming very stealth but they're at the same time they're kind of moving quickly but they're
44:26
pushing civilians out of the way in the process are you coming in hot or cold
44:31
why are you alerting the public to your presence carrying weapons they're going to start Whoa hey whoa mhm and so it's
44:37
their fault that they're should have they should have let them get in the car and start driving away get them out of
44:43
the city limits tail them for a little bit put a helicopter on top of the car and just trail them get swat out they're
44:50
in one vehicle get a helicopter on top of that vehicle and trail it that's it that makes for a less exciting movie I
44:57
think though i guess is that what it is i think so i think so i'm such I'm such a wet blanket
45:04
see he sees cops look how did he see like that's some eagle eye [ __ ] right
45:11
yeah he sees a cop holding a gun beside a U-Haul and right away starts fing just aesthetically listen to that music that
45:16
we heard it's gone that's one thing we mentioned that when this scene kicks in the music stops because the music
45:23
doesn't tell us who we're rooting for because we're not sure do we root for the bad guys we root for El i'm conflicted because I kind of like both
45:28
sides of the law here and the bad guys you're kind of rooting for both so let's just watch a little bit and for our
45:34
audio listeners yeah you're just going to hear the what everyone loves is the gunfire sound
45:55
there's Al's gun i don't know what Al's gun is but it seems like it's like a higher level of gun like it seems to be
46:02
Yeah i'm not a police person but do they just carry around these are automatic
46:08
weapons i didn't think they do yes but that's what I mean they come ready they
46:14
come Oh it's not their pulling up happen stance on it no I don't think like a cop doesn't approach your car with a speedy
46:20
ticket with a assault rifle yeah these are all like high-end assault rifles course they have their vests on and
46:26
stuff yeah so there's the death face of Ted Lavine there i love it look at this face i can't believe I'm still like mad
46:34
at myself that I was confused as to who was who so we got to hear more of the gunfire course go go go go
46:48
al's you know says goodbye to Ted Lavine i'm confused about Al's running he just
46:55
keeps running down the street i don't know how far is he going compared to where the vehicle's going he always seems to be right behind where the car
47:01
might be they do try to box them in at this point I think don't they isn't there like a patrol car but where's El
47:07
running to i don't know it is kind of funny cuz I'm watching
47:13
subjectively like Al's running to the car so the car gets shot down to the cop's credit they get the car done they
47:18
kill President Hayes birth from 24 he gets killed but let's listen to again
47:23
this gunfire and car crash cuz it's kind of cool and then we'll talk
47:45
how are they still close enough to the car yeah you're right so Al does the head shot so Al does one shot kills Dan
47:52
Hayes the driver cuz it shows the side window blow out after his one shot which kills Dan he's a marksman we're led to
47:58
believe he's a marksman this is a good day for Al he kills the bad guy driver and Tom Seismore that's true for L and
48:04
now the driver's dead it crashes how is he running in C the car is going 80 mph
48:10
like I love how L's still able to Here's the thing speaking of the diner
48:15
scene we never see L and the car in the same frame the car always seems to be around everyone but we never see the car
48:21
in the same frame with people you're right that's for a reason i was always
48:26
rooting for these guys the bank robbers to get away and And I knew I mean you know this is how movies go i was like
48:32
"Sweet." All four of them did finally get in the car but then I was like "Oh [ __ ] they blew the tire out and then
48:38
they killed the driver so now what now what they have to get out again." So they are boxed in the cops here were
48:45
already there boxing it in mhm they didn't have to start the firefight early they should have stayed in their
48:50
vehicles and followed the car to the boxing in cuz these cop cars are already here so either they're here because the
48:57
firefight started or they're here to prevent getaway either way they could have been informed and been there to
49:03
help box all this in in a safe area but they started firing before they got here there was no reason for the firefight to
49:09
take place they should have stayed in their vehicles not alerted them they make them think they're getting away they drive away slowly because they
49:14
don't want to track attention it's the whole point they're going to drive slowly and away cops follow them in unmarked vehicle and they trap them
49:20
later it's not that hard you're right except I feel like what happened here was I don't think those cars were in
49:27
place the whole time but they're there now this firefight's only taking place for a minute and a half and they're
49:33
already set up so did they set up that quickly or were they already there either way in the movie world that we're
49:39
in they could have been there that quickly without the firefight and again L's running to what i'm not sure and
49:45
there's so many casualties seemingly like this is just in the middle of a lot of cop casualties i I don't know
49:51
if there's any civilian ones we might not see it but there would have there i mean they're just like firing away like
49:57
certainly people died well again the cop count i think there's about 9 to 10 cops that were killed it's
50:04
And I hate watching that i know it's just a movie but there's that part of me that there's 10 to 11 men looks like old
50:10
men who aren't going home to their wives and kids that day for $12 million like none of this money is worth it this is
50:16
just a bank robbery it's not even that much money i guess maybe in '95 it was but like but even let them let them go
50:22
with it let them go and just get them later yeah like this would be to catch like a
50:29
serial murderer or something but yeah you're right they've robbed a bank big whoop i mean not big whoop but you can
50:34
catch now it's an issue but this is the problem now everyone's firing so they have to fire back mhm
50:39
so Tom Seismore character is not able to get away he is a big dude in this he's
50:44
putting a little bit of weight is that what you mean he looks really wide i think it's alcohol
50:51
honestly so now this scene is interesting so Chris played by Velimler
50:56
he's hit now what's interesting here Katie is what does Robert Dairo's character do that's wrong in his own
51:03
mantra be ready to leave a situation in 30 seconds yeah he should have left him behind it just goes to show you you know
51:09
you know the thickest thieves right either way he quoted that thing twice in the film you know he come around the
51:15
corner you doesn't follow his old he goes back to the woman and he goes back for Val but
51:20
ultimately he does follow it maybe because he doesn't think he's like dead
51:26
he who he who wants to try and save him it doesn't matter he's
51:33
I mean you hold him down you just grabbed his bag but well but they're too
51:38
heavy it's too heavy like that's a heavy ass bag but I was just going to say he's carrying the body and the bag though
51:44
selfishly Val Kilmer had the other bag of money al still running now i just
51:49
love how Al is able to run he just keeps running it's hilarious barely pants you got to give him credit his cardio's
51:55
pretty good eh there is a scene later on when he's running with something and it looks like he's on the struggle bus but
52:01
they just find a car with keys in it and by the way him running with a rifle like that that's that's so not tactical
52:09
having it up like this I could be wrong like close to your chest well it's pointed down one for safety too but this
52:15
having it wobbly cuz it's you're having your arm I don't know if that's better like you want to have it in a carry like because if you can just go like this you
52:22
want to have a two-hand carry because if it's a two-hand carry because he's got to bring it down and put it in his hand and then shoot to run like this and then
52:30
like that you're right you're probably absolutely right i took it as there's civilians around and if it's pointed you
52:37
point the weapon down you point the weapon down the weapon's pointed down it's going to hit the ground okay it's
52:43
having it up in the air it's even more there could be people in buildings and the True that's true
52:49
so yeah it's just aesthetic it's part of the movie aesthetic to run with it that way some of the cops are running sort of
52:55
properly with the weapons down like West West characters running that's a L him running with it that way tom Seismore
53:01
character is kind of doing the two-hand carry so here's Tom who's going to pick up the kid i think smart is but picks up
53:09
a kid this aesthetic just looks cool running with a weapon like that i don't know why but I wonder what kind of
53:15
weapon that is it looks like just a higher caliber of a I am person i don't know no I'm not
53:21
either but this drove me nuts this scene Ryan well he's already got him his sights he's got him in his sights one
53:27
inch over and you're killing that kid yeah he's got a clear shot of the head there
53:33
sure but if you miss though I mean you have to be pretty confident in your
53:39
abilities i can argue some really are like I'm not a good shot i would not trust me but some people really are i
53:46
actually saw a real life hostage situation where I think it was a South American country i don't know which one
53:53
so they but the guy was holding a knife or something to a woman's throat against a building and they took him out now
54:02
that does make sense if there was immediate danger for this child but I guess I took it as it's he's not trying
54:10
to kill her oh the immediate and he's a target you can almost argue that's the like I I know what you're
54:16
saying like you're right but again it's a movie trope to the bad guy but he did use her
54:22
as a shield she's going to be in danger because how far is he going to take her into the car yeah you're right just kind
54:29
of Yeah i guess I'd be curious if they teach you that in like the police academy though i feel like they would
54:36
probably teach you not to shoot i don't know what the the negotiation for first talk first yeah yeah now the other thing
54:42
that was interesting about that sequence I'd forgotten that it happens with still a quarter of the film left and it wasn't
54:49
that long it wasn't that long of a sequence my brain was like 10 12 minutes long what was it probably
54:56
there was so much of this movie I didn't remember cuz the last sequence lasts a while there was a lot that I didn't
55:02
remember and to your point again there's a lot of little stories threaded together jeremy Pivan here as the the
55:10
doctor to the veterinary classic don't take it don't take it is it a veterinarian they took I don't know i I
55:16
was like is it a dentist or he I don't some kind of I think it's an animal
55:21
doctor but why does he ask for his shirt because his is bloody they they swap
55:27
right yeah they do they take us Well I don't know if they swap he just takes the shirt so Jerry Jeremy Pivven in the
55:33
one scene role of just playing the uh he just always seems like he's sleazy i don't know what he has this Yeah well
55:40
yeah yeah so anyway so they're fixing patching up Chris's uh play by Val
55:45
patching up his wounds there's not much else to this scene other than we get Jeremy Pivven just another bit role just
55:51
I don't know if these actors like hey yeah I'll go in that movie just give me some screen time on from Tone Lo to Jeremy Piv to Xander Berkeley you just
55:58
Hank Aazeria a little bit larger role for him but you got a lot of these actors like I'll be in this cool movie
56:03
yeah heck yeah oh one other thing about the Wayne and the Vanzant
56:11
I don't think Vanzant is just a banker yeah what do you think well I feel like
56:16
they mentioned cuz just regular bankers don't have like a bodyguard okay right like he doesn't have the Henry Rollins i
56:23
think they mention something about moneyaundering so he's a shady cat and
56:28
he orders a hit on someone just a regular like a banker wouldn't do that oh I don't know if banker is the right
56:34
word i think we you said that i think he's just um you're right he black market money laundering who knows okay
56:42
now let's just listen a little bit to the scene here of Daeniro's character going to Tjo played by Tjo
56:50
just a reminder of how this all went down why'd you do it what happened
56:57
they made me Who where's Anna she's dead
57:06
so's Michael Bri the guy who stood in for you who did it who did it they had had a man
57:14
who had a Wangro
57:19
so Rangro was here with Henry Rollins then they were both laying the Smackdown on him probably yeah probably cuz we
57:26
know Wayne Grow is a bad dude and if anyone's going to kill the woman Wayne Grow is going to kill the woman yeah yeah he already did he already did yeah
57:33
mhm um this is super weird but I'm curious if there are any other listeners
57:38
so I have my one friend group and I we still laugh at this we were at a brewery one time just talking about actors and
57:45
somehow it came up all four of us were like "Yeah there is something about Danny Tjo what like that we're all sort
57:52
of like you and the bad boys would you stop it?" And we all recognize that it's like
57:58
super weird like really weird but there's something about Danny Trey
58:06
that's why I have no luck with the girls i mean I'm married of course but if it wasn't for my marriage you have to be
58:12
like super i'm boring i'm so vanilla no that's like
58:17
one of those really weird like who who's an ugly person that you're somehow weirdly attracted to and it's Danny Tjo
58:23
who would be for me i got to think about that i got to think about who would I for the female side of that who's ugly
58:28
that I'm attracted you know like Yeah I'm just trying to think somebody not
58:34
known to like known yeah I know i know i know there's got to be somebody i'd have to cut back on that because I'm sure
58:39
there's somebody yeah who isn't conventionally hot as they say i could see someone saying Sandra Burnhard or
58:46
somebody like that like she's kind of sexy but she's Yeah I don't like No not at all i know who you're saying but yeah
58:54
good good example but no I'd have to get back to you on that all right wangro
59:01
on his own for some
59:07
okay so Wangro is there by himself okay so Wangro went here beat the [ __ ] but boy is he that tough that he beat up
59:13
Treyjo and killed the woman like he did this alone working for Vanzant but how would he know that he worked for
59:18
Van see this is where it gets a little confusing like hey I'm killing Anna and beating you at the Pope but I'm doing this for Vanzant tjo yeah it came up i
59:28
guess the other he worked for
59:36
yeah but again so Dairo's like Vanzant yeah so Vanzant
59:42
sent his dogs out to do this get the information we're going to Trey Hill where they're hitting the bank to mess up their bank robbery oh cool but again
59:48
it's odd writing because there's a scene where Wangirl's here by himself and he's able to kill Anna and beat the crap out
59:55
of Treyjo on his own you could argue that Henry Rollins was with him he just didn't know who he was
1:00:02
but it was Henry Rollins that called the cops as I'm a CI for who who was he a
1:00:09
confidential informant for we never find out like which cop because the guy goes "Hey buddy are you working
1:00:15
that Diro case whoever whatever their names are." Yeah I am well my CI or
1:00:21
somebody's CI just called and said they're robbing a bank today at 11:30 well we better get there that's how that
1:00:26
went down it was another cop who was like "Oh yeah i think some cops are working on that case Mr i sort of just
1:00:33
thought it was like an anonymous tip." No they actually named the I love the confidential form it is named
1:00:41
Hugh something yeah Hugh Benny is his name i just love how the CI is named in the film isn't that the whole point of a
1:00:48
CI is we don't have the name even the other cops don't know the name yeah oh good point
1:00:54
now you got the informant part bang on confidential part you got to work on good point good point that's the C in
1:01:01
CIA that's a C yeah we're halfway there we are halfway there but again it's a
1:01:07
movie trope because they're not telling the cops they're telling the audience the Van yes you're right you're right
1:01:13
okay vanzand yeah
1:01:18
Vanzand okay so he confirms it was Vanzand and then of course he's been to a pulp and he's like "Don't leave me here." And Dino's character gives him a
1:01:26
mercy kill we saw that coming a mile away now this shot here do you watch the show Bosch
1:01:32
oh interesting i've seen it that's the same house yeah is it okay 99% sure the same house that's the same house cuz LA
1:01:40
right isn't Bos Bosch in LA as well yep yep yeah so if you're a Bosch washer and heat watcher they're in a house it's
1:01:46
this good call yeah bosch moved in just after the events of Heat that's fair yeah
1:01:52
i just laugh at the sight of John Boyd in this with his hair yeah okay so they
1:01:57
get to where Henry Rollins is located they find out where he is because that's the
1:02:03
confidential form so they know hey that's what I mean they know who again not confidential but the informants are like "Hey let's find out how he knew
1:02:09
this." [Music]
1:02:15
Watch the gunshot sequence here of West Study's character of how they blow down
1:02:21
the door it's an interesting effect because I don't think he's shooting a real gun but he's pointing the gun where the squibs will take out the door so
1:02:27
it's an interesting effect cuz when the squibs go off that's when like it's I'm going to watch this now to see how it's
1:02:34
timed and then as they kick down the door you'll see L step on the door and you can totally tell it's made out of like nothing like the door itself is
1:02:40
made out of paper almost the way they the way the door moves is so light you think this was smart though
1:02:47
there okay so what they did there was they so they had squibs go off to blow up the
1:02:54
door but they added a post effect flash a flash like white for the explosion cuz
1:03:00
West Sudti actually doesn't even pull the trigger he just points where the squibs are going to go off so it's a
1:03:05
good practical little effect [Music]
1:03:15
watch the door just step on it see how it's kind of like
1:03:20
That's a light door the two of them could have easily just punched the door now like just a good kick but I feel
1:03:25
like I don't usually see that when doors are kicked in i thought that was really smart and I'm like "Well yeah you blow
1:03:31
off the hinges first." Yeah that was good i liked it don't get me wrong and I liked how they did it but just the way
1:03:36
they set the door like it's a pretty light door they could probably bat ram that down pretty quickly and you don't
1:03:41
know who's in the house so use again using a firearm he could have a completely innocent person over
1:03:46
delivering pizza they know they lose head on outside the door so good point good point
1:03:53
it's not against law to deliver pizza to a criminal unbeknownst to you so the guy says "Here here's your change sir." Boom
1:03:59
his head goes fly he's littering behind the door giving him the pizza to uh Rollins cuz he doesn't know he's getting
1:04:04
you know [Music] we have a reenactment here of West
1:04:10
Study's character fighting the guy on the top of the cliff inside the hotel room
1:04:16
[Music] i love how Aluccino's character this little Italian guy beats up Rollins
1:04:23
throws him through glass [Music]
1:04:33
oh this is that's another trope glass windows easily break you just push someone through them imagine if the
1:04:39
windows were that weak where you lived okay mhm all right so then uh Jiro's character
1:04:46
goes to Vanzant's house so now you know Oh yeah good little sequence here he's
1:04:51
watching hockey which I love good for Vanzan he's a mana for my own heart he watches everybody has a super awesome
1:04:58
apartment or house with windows yeah lots of windows lots of everybody in
1:05:03
this movie well it's LA i guess that might be the style of the 80s and 90s big windows there's no privacy like at
1:05:11
the beach makes sense diro's house that was awesome like if you're right on the beach and this guy clearly is rich but
1:05:17
yeah he's rich watching the Hawin little screen now behind the net brings it
1:05:24
he just grabs a patio chair again throws it through a very weak window weak window yeah we
1:05:31
referee no way no way sugar glass total sugar
1:05:37
glass yeah so of course he jumps up why wouldn't you your window just smashed in
1:05:43
wro where is he where is he how the h How would I know
1:05:50
i love this yeah that's great that's just a great little sequence there didn't even give him any more time okay
1:05:56
you don't know or you don't you're not telling me how would I know okay so Hankazer's character
1:06:03
you know to cover his own butt gets Val Kilmer's girlfriend and kid at the safe house where she's going to betray or you
1:06:11
know position yeah I did kind of find it funny that Hank Aazeria is like super
1:06:16
pissed at her now and keeps throwing shade what what yeah he keeps throwing and I do like the cops telling him like
1:06:22
"Dude can you just He's kind of been through a lot here." And I do appreciate
1:06:27
Bubba Gump's Is that who that is yeah it's Bubba Gump his partner Bubba oh wow
1:06:33
yeah from Forest Gump two years previous yeah i feel bad for because every time I hear him talk I think
1:06:42
as they're scrubbing the floor with toothbrushes anyways I do like he's trying very hard to say "Look for your
1:06:47
kid you know think of the kid." He sells it well yeah and she's Yeah well I would
1:06:55
have bought it winds up in gladiatormies like Chino and Tracy
1:07:00
[ __ ] for life you know what happens cuz you've been
1:07:06
there dominic didn't get a chance yet to choose his life but Chris did if you
1:07:12
give up Chris you get off clean you can do it for your kid so you can
1:07:19
raise it her hair looks really shitty here yeah what's with her hair is this
1:07:25
movie i heard you guys talking about it um well I don't like Ashley Jud as a
1:07:30
blonde it doesn't look right okay she's a brunette and I think she looks much
1:07:35
better with brown hair there's something off about her hair oh yeah it's not a good cut right now i don't know what's
1:07:41
going on here this is another bad scene she looked better with the curls when she was getting slapped well she got all
1:07:47
doled up to to go to motel with her her Hank Zera boy there's not much else to
1:07:52
the scene doesn't um Robert go see right here yeah he comes home she sees the news
1:08:01
and I do like what he says here about what happened to the people that got hurt and let's just see the sequence of
1:08:07
him coming home from the bank robbery and meeting you know his before cell
1:08:12
phones and texting like "Hey were you just involved in a bank shootout?" So he comes home to talk about it speaking of bad hair she has weird hair in this too
1:08:19
what's with all the girls in their hair when you have like a lot of hair and it's curly and it's long like that like it can get big it's sort of like the
1:08:26
Julia Roberts better i hesitated whether I'd even bring this up no amy Brenamman
1:08:32
as Edie also I don't like the name Edie for her either the character names in this for whatever reason don't seem to
1:08:39
go but Amy Brenamman there's nothing wrong with her i think she does a good job but there's something about her that
1:08:46
irritates me a little bit like I kind of wish someone else was in this i Yeah yeah you wish it was you yeah I kind of
1:08:53
do i guess maybe that's you're projecting your own jealousy which is fine i get it the weird southern accent
1:08:59
why does she have a southern accent i'm not sure maybe is that where she's from geographically is that her normal no like that's not how she talks in other
1:09:05
things it was for this movie and why was the show called Judge Amy was it called Judge and Amy before she was signed on
1:09:11
to play the role of Amy or did they change it to because she starred in it is that weird probably yeah it's like
1:09:17
Tony Danza is always called Tony tony mhm yeah i guess she's kind of a phenomenon
1:09:23
she's a good actress i guess she's fine she's fine she's just fine i don't know but yeah something I do like how she you
1:09:29
know we're going to hear about the robbery and robbers like "Okay pack your stuff we're going." I just love how she runs away and he like tackles her in the
1:09:35
field what's Yeah rightly so freaks well yeah i'm I'm living with a mafia guy or
1:09:40
whatever he just comes home explains nothing just says "Pack a bag we're leaving." Yeah he's a good He's He's
1:09:47
being as old men should be to their woman it's perfect and she's like "Who
1:09:53
are you what is happening here?" Do you regret having coffee with me now that's what I don't do i don't sell metal would
1:09:59
have been okay you fly out after now it's Jan we got to go together those
1:10:05
those other people were with you my friend Mike
1:10:10
[Music] you know to risk you not to be there but
1:10:16
you got wet so that's how he deals with his friends Michael's death it rains you get wet
1:10:22
all right he knew the risk he didn't have to be there i know he's doesn't really feel that way he's talking that
1:10:28
way but obviously he's not happy that Michael's dead cuz he obviously he saved Val he even tried to talk Michael out of
1:10:35
it earlier you don't need this you don't need to do this yeah
1:10:40
get back let's go that Michael Man music again that theme
1:10:47
is it's the same music as thief and and uh the keep it's this is like but it's a
1:10:54
different composer yeah oh you could have used this little for the keep but it's a different
1:11:00
composer yeah he likes the soundsscape and it's going to be interesting because I admit Katie going to future films I
1:11:07
don't know if he keeps this up in the 2000s i don't know
1:11:15
chase after Edie tackles her in the field and I love that she's crawling on some backyard slope or something trying
1:11:22
to run away from Robert he tackles her but this is the very Michael man shot here look you got the vegetation in the
1:11:28
forefront and the characters behind it's it's purposefully done it's an interesting shot for again the shot is
1:11:36
better than the scene the scene the dialogue is weird like the behavior of the humans here is weird but the shot
1:11:43
but the shot of this beautiful Well cuz at first I thought she
1:11:49
the scene will play out but I was like "Oh she gets on board pretty quick." And then I was like "Oh no she doesn't." But they go back and forth so much but then
1:11:56
they must have such a connection these two because they're both all in yeah she
1:12:02
says "Why did you do this to me?" I do want to hear your thoughts we're going to close on Edie and Robert's character at the end here but first we see
1:12:08
Alpaccino come home to his wife banging Xander Berkeley and poor Xander Burke is like "I had no idea she was married
1:12:14
dude." And Al keeps telling him to sit down and shut up and he does a very good job of playing like the cuckold type
1:12:20
boyfriend um I like the TV bit he takes the TV with him but I just want to hear
1:12:26
your thoughts on the my I called this actress the Timu version of Deimore is
1:12:32
that a unfair statement or is that bad or I do think she's really beautiful but again she's got real [ __ ] hair it's the
1:12:38
hair i know it's the hair everybody all the women in this have weird hair it's crazy how much hair and I hate to I'm
1:12:45
sorry woman there's a reason why men get a little bit bent out of shape when a woman said "I'm going to cut all my hair cuz you turn into her and we get really
1:12:52
panicky about that we get real Well you know what it it this it's a thing i know sometimes it's like in fashion and out
1:12:58
of fashion but it's not a sexy look." That short bangs yeah what's up with that it's just not a good look on really
1:13:05
any It's not a sexy look you might be cute but it's not a sexy look yeah so here we end with this scene again
1:13:11
michael man look at the pose here so this is very deliberate so we're at the third segment of the Edy Dairo character
1:13:20
she asked like "When can I leave you when are you going to let me go?" And he's like "Well you can kind of leave whenever." But she's kind of asking like
1:13:25
"Fine I'm going to leave with you i'm going to go to Cuba with you or whatever." Cabo wobble wherever we're going but at what point can I go if I
1:13:32
really and he says "Well just go now maybe Yeah but maybe you'll like it it won't be." And he's right it won't be
1:13:38
like this right now it sucks because we're on the run but when we're done running we just get to live with our
1:13:43
millions of dollars on the beach like it won't we just got to run first now look at this very Michael Manis shot you got
1:13:49
this big tree the light the dark nightscape and the way Amy has her back to Rob and Robert's sideways with to her
1:13:56
back it's it looks just like the movie poster of characters and you wouldn't
1:14:01
talk this way i know she has her back to Robert's character but you know I my back's to you but it's a very purposeful
1:14:07
shot of Michael Man i want you to stand this way look how much screen is on the
1:14:13
left unused there's nothing there mhm it's just empty space and their characters are all the way to the right
1:14:19
of our viewing it's very interesting like they're not in the middle we're not looking at them with the camera coming
1:14:25
around forward we've got this almost like we're looking at this argument from
1:14:31
a distance the angle and the widescreen usage of this film is done very well this is a cool shot for me i like this
1:14:37
shot it's a very Yeah but it's Dairo's speech here of his character I should
1:14:42
say to saying "All right here I go here's the bad guy speech of why you should stay with me." And she's like
1:14:47
"That's the one that's the speech." I It's like that part of the romantic film when they make up the romantic comedy
1:14:53
you know the man says the right things for the woman to come back this winds are over let's hear it i don't even know
1:14:59
what I'm doing anymore i know life is short whatever time you get is luck you want
1:15:06
to walk you walk right now or on your own
1:15:12
on your own you choose to come with me and all I know is
1:15:18
all I know is there's no point in me going anywhere anymore just going to be alone
1:15:29
that was pretty good that was pretty good also the waves and the sounds of the beach and whatever in the background
1:15:35
peaceful that's huge for him though he's been a loner this whole time but he's breaking his own again yeah but he will
1:15:42
break it this definitely would get me but you know what i think it is i don't buy this i don't buy them as a couple
1:15:50
yeah you're just jealous but go on do you though no that goes back to the very beginning
1:15:56
of our episode and we'll close like we'll close with this because the next scene is this sequence of uh Ashley Jud
1:16:02
going to betray what we think he's going to show herself at the window but we'll start the next episode with that with our host to answer your question here it
1:16:10
goes to your point of this movie has all of the templates for a really great 10
1:16:16
episode season there's so much character development here like we could see more of the home life of Chris and Ashley Jud
1:16:21
or Valcom and Ashley Jud the dating life of Robert and Edie Pacino with his wife and the stepdaughter all this stuff is
1:16:27
some great family drama with action beats and chaos so it could have almost
1:16:33
been a multi-season arc or at the very a very strong because we have three hours
1:16:38
here and they do okay but give me another seven with these characters exactly i agree you always have every
1:16:43
episode focusing on one relationship another relationship and then it all
1:16:50
comes to head in the 10th episode of this miniseries of the heist or whatever so what's happened here is we're seeing
1:16:55
all the shell of these characters or surface I should say of these characters we don't get
1:17:01
very deep because we don't have time that's not time doesn't mean it's not a good story so not to step on my future
1:17:06
host what he might be criticizing about this film i might be beating him to it is we needed more narrative either we
1:17:13
eliminate some characters or give us more narrative of characters and to get more narrative of characters we need a
1:17:19
longer format which is a miniseries and ironically Heap based on his original pilot LA Takedown was a pilot for a TV
1:17:26
show so I think Oh was it yes so he was trying to combine a TV show season into
1:17:33
a three-hour movie that totally makes sense that tracks you're absolutely
1:17:39
right you do hit it on the head because I didn't like Helen Hunt with Patrick Sees i didn't like I forget her name the
1:17:46
wife in Breakdown with Kurt Russell yeah yeah and I don't like Amy Brenamman with Robert Dairo i did like Diane Venora as
1:17:54
Justine i bought her and Aluccino together but for some reason I feel like
1:17:59
Edy was miscast maybe it's just me do any listeners feel like there needed to be more
1:18:05
passion with them or something like there wasn't Yeah I think the best relationship flesh out was the marriage
1:18:12
mhm el's third marriage and I feel bad for him a little bit because I think he
1:18:17
just chooses poorly i think he's a good man cuz he was concerned about the daughter which is more than anyone else was you know like he actually cared
1:18:23
about this kid and it shows that he has a heart but the job is important to him and he was kind of like "Can we just be
1:18:32
you know have fun in the hay and I'll take care of your daughter but when I am at work I'm at work but I'll get home and I like I'm coming home." He says he
1:18:38
actually said "I never cheated on you." That's what he's saying to her i'm loyal to you i'm loyal to my job and you my
1:18:45
job takes me away from you but don't mistake me being a really good police officer that I don't care about you and
1:18:51
the girl when I come home i felt for both of them because if I were her I would want more too this is
1:18:58
his third wife that he was probably pretty upfront with her like "This is the deal." Yeah um but you know she
1:19:04
could change him she wanted him to be human when he came
1:19:10
home and she didn't get much like she got a drinker or you know and like somebody that was a you know I mean yeah
1:19:17
I think they had they had fun in the sack yeah one of the worst makeup scenes I've ever seen in a movie but other than
1:19:23
that yeah something weird yeah yeah yeah it's not that great
1:19:29
yeah great actor but watching Aluccino make out with somebody who looks like again to me more knockoff it's kind of
1:19:35
hard it's like I rather seen Dairo and Amy go at it but
1:19:40
we didn't really which is weird but no we just got the a kiss and just kind of the aftermath the afterquitis mhm okay i
1:19:48
I know we talked a lot in a good way and I still feel rushed because there's just so much to talk about but we're going to stop it here folks that is episode four
1:19:56
of Five of Heat our next episode we are going to end it with a downer because our host is just going to crap all over
1:20:02
the movie and I'll do my best to defend the film if his arguments are fair because we've been fair i'm not a fanboy
1:20:07
of the film so I'm always able to listen to of course objective criticisms i think we've done a good job on this one
1:20:12
maybe I'm taking the wind out of his sales a little bit i did too but I would like It is re I guess I It's a good film
1:20:18
it is really It is really good it's a fun film it's not a perfect film but it's a fun film yeah yeah there's so
1:20:25
many people in this repeat viewings i think you almost start to fill in some
1:20:31
of the gaps yourself a little bit you're like "Oh that's what they're talking." Cuz Yeah and I'm really interested now
1:20:37
in reading the book that Craig talked about because I think we get to flesh out the characters more with the post
1:20:43
and pre-events and I think that would help fill in so be very interesting to read the book then go back and watch the film again knowing their characters more
1:20:50
in depth would be an interesting because you're in your mind you're filling in those plot hole gaps on the screen well
1:20:55
this is absolute blast katie you're always a pleasure to do this with and again people can find Katie at the
1:21:01
Retromade podcast available wherever you listen to podcast on YouTube if you want
1:21:06
to see Katie with her co-host like we're doing here on YouTube or in audio like you're listening to me on audio
1:21:12
RetroMate Podcast I'll tag your show you want me to
1:21:21
Heat [Applause] [Music]
1:21:31
[Music] up here
1:21:43
[Applause] [Music] heat
1:21:53
[Applause] up
1:22:00
[Music] here
1:22:09
heat
1:22:20
heat
1:22:32
[Music]
1:22:42
heat up here
1:22:53
heat
1:23:07
heat [Applause]