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Welcome to Business School for the Rehab Chiropractor where we coach you on how to run the practice and business of your dreams. Your host is Justin Rabinowitz - a multiple Rehab Chiropractic practice business owner and investor. In addition to running his own locations, Justin works with Rehab Chiropractors across the US talking about everything from sales to marketing, and creating the business systems necessary to succeed.
Dr. Molly Powiada:
We had two different audiences that we were speaking to.
Dr. Max Powiada:
Very disorganized was the first thing that comes to mind.
Dr. Molly Powiada:
We just have to pick.
Dr. Max Powiada:
It's us trying to achieve a vision for not only ourselves, but for our brand and our practice in general.
Dr. Justin Rabinowitz:
This is Max and Molly Powiada. We had them on the podcast two years ago. When I last spoke to them, they were slowly but surely defining and refining their audience and growing into the practice that they wanted to build. Today, we'll talk about what it takes to grow as a practice and grow as a couple. We'll look into why defining your audience is important, how to lead a team, and why trying to be the hero could really be the thing holding your practice back.
So if you're new to the podcast, every episode we share the stories of chiros who are learning how to build their businesses, and along the way learning the lessons they won't teach you in chiro school. If you want the kind of help I give out on the podcast today, click the link in the show notes to book a call with our team. It's a simple, no pressure, no obligation, conversation to help you figure out the next right steps. And if anything you hear today is useful to your practice, please just like and follow wherever you get your podcasts or even leave a review. We would love to hear from you. I'm Dr. Justin Rabinowitz and this is Business School for the Rehab Chiropractor.
All right. So Molly, the last time we had you on, it was almost two years ago and you said it wasn't until you got clear on your message and who you wanted to serve that things started to click in place. So for people that didn't hear that conversation, what was your business like at that time?
Dr. Molly Powiada:
Yeah, it's kind of hard to remember back because it feels like it's been forever, but we had two different audiences that we were speaking to. So I came out of a practice where we were primarily treating postpartum, pregnancy, pediatrics, and I really, really loved it. It was really gratifying. They're an amazing population to treat. However, what he enjoyed treating was more so golfers, athletes, rotational style individuals. And so we'd have emails that went out about pregnancy and postpartum to this list of people who were golfers. And then we'd have golf and sports and performance style email or post go out to a list of women who had no idea about golf at all. And so it started to get really, really confusing for us. And it wasn't until you literally told us we just have to pick. We just had to pick which population we enjoy treating. And since we both like working with athletes and rotational athletes and golfers, that's the avenue that we decided to go head first into the last, what, three years? Two years?
Dr. Justin Rabinowitz:
So this is such a common problem. A lot of practitioners have their identity tied up in treating certain patient populations. Maybe you have an athletic background so it feels like it makes the most sense to treat athletes, but that could be holding you back. And if you want to talk to someone who can help you refine your audience, just head over to the link in the show notes. We'd love to help you.
Max, from your perspective, if you go back two years, what do you remember the business being like at that time?
Dr. Max Powiada:
Very disorganized was the first thing that comes to mind.
Dr. Justin Rabinowitz:
Tell me more.
Dr. Max Powiada:
We both had individual jobs and there was definitely a lack of cohesiveness between the two with regarding what we were trying to do. We were both really good at treating patients individually. There was no system. There was no method that we had. There was just Max and Molly individually kind of on slightly parallel pathways, but also slightly separate as well. So while we were doing quite decent objectively, I think from a business standpoint we basically just had two individual jobs and it was kind of just like a hobby.
Dr. Justin Rabinowitz:
So many couples that I work with are running two businesses in one because it's basically the genesis of how they met. Most of the time, these couples met in chiropractic school and it's happily ever after. They graduate together, they open up a practice, and, I'm going to generalize here, but the husband has a sports background that he wants to treat athletes and the wife who is also a chiro, she might want to treat pediatrics or moms or women's health. And so they just kind of say, "We'll open up under one roof and have two different practices under one roof," and it just slowly starts to happen. The problem with this is it is the exact wrong way of how to build a business off the ground because again you have two distinct populations and you have two directions that you're moving in, and it's like essentially playing tug of war with each other.
Max, let me stay with you. That was two years ago. When you look at the business today, what feels different now compared to then? What's changed?
Dr. Max Powiada:
So the thing that's changed the most is, I'd say, our identity and it's always changing. However, it's not just us treating patients anymore. It's us trying to achieve a vision for not only ourselves, but for our brand and our practice in general. And so at the time we didn't have any employees or any help. It was just the two of us and we were doing everything. It's been a large journey of trial and error of learning things that we were never aware of before or never had done before with regards to hiring, with regards to leading, managing people and getting cleared expectations. And so the fact that we have people with us on our team now ... Our team is, instead of the two of us, there's six, which is really neat. And the growth that we've achieved over the last two years while we're still treating patients, myself more than Molly, we can get into that if you like, the system of how we're building this on to not depend 100% on us, but people come to see fortitude, not us individually.
Dr. Justin Rabinowitz:
So just give the audience an idea of, besides the two of you, who else is on the team today?
Dr. Molly Powiada:
We have two marketing assistants. They are virtual. So they're mostly doing editing, copyright, any CRM management, and then building out ads for us as well. And we just hired our first associate, Dr. Travis. He's been with us for about six weeks now. And then we also have a preceptor with us as well, so he joined us in January.
Dr. Justin Rabinowitz:
So many people on the surface would say, "Wow, things must be great now," and there are many things objectively that are significantly better, but much of the business is still hard. So Molly, let me start with you. What would you say right now is still really hard in the business?
Dr. Molly Powiada:
It feels like a lot because I feel like, you've said this many times, but every level has a new devil and it's very true. The most difficult thing for us right now is how we consistently speak about the vision of where we're going, how we consistently speak about our core values, our beliefs, and our standards, how we uphold those, and how we have tough conversations to uphold those because they're tough conversations to have. And then how do you figure out how to lead all six of these people, myself included? We all perceive information differently and we all respond to feedback differently and we all prefer different styles of feedback. So growing into a leader that can individualize, I guess, our verbiage to each individual, but also keep our vision moving forward has been really difficult for me.
Dr. Justin Rabinowitz:
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Max and Molly have a unique take on positioning their practice and it's one I haven't heard expressed before.
So from your perspective to help the audience when you think about that word vision and how do we communicate it or whatever that means to you, just talk through that for me.
Dr. Max Powiada:
Yeah, it's totally cliche. Last time we chatted a couple years ago, that was the biggest thing I was having trouble identifying or to envision and it's been always changing. However, for us, the vision is to become the first place that people think of when they have an issue with their body playing golf. The identity we've had over the last four years, or I guess almost five years now since we started, was we're the last place people find. And so moving forward, we're going to be the first place.
Dr. Justin Rabinowitz:
That's really good. I've never heard anyone articulate it that way. So the fact that you guys are thinking that way is fantastic. Like you've talked about here, the biggest takeaway a couple years ago was getting clarity and the big breakthrough was essentially picking an audience. So Max, for you, what would you say today feels like the biggest bottleneck in the business to achieve that vision that you now have set out?
Dr. Max Powiada:
So it's me, right now, is the biggest bottleneck. And the reason why is because since Molly, we've had to pivot. We've basically had to pivot a number of different times over the last five years. And the pivot we made last summer when Molly was physically no longer able to treat patients because of her knee situation, it became back to me 100% so I was the brand. So I was doing 100% of the treating and that has led me to become the bottleneck of us to move to the next stage. And so when we can solve that in detaching myself from being the hero in this situation, that people come to see me personally, the confidence that we have with the other docs in the office to have anyone who calls us see them will be the thing that moves us forward.
Dr. Justin Rabinowitz:
Let's dive in there a little bit because you mentioned something that we hear a ton and I don't think anyone ever explores it more than the first layer of it. First of all, most people won't even say that they're the bottleneck, but even if they do get to that point, is it ... And I want your real thoughts here. When you say you're the bottleneck, is there an objective layer of that where it's like, "Right now, I am the best one to treat these patients," or is it subjective in that, "I just want potentially to feel useful and I don't know what I would do if I stepped out," or are there other things that are attached to it? What do you think the root of you being the bottleneck actually is?
Dr. Max Powiada:
Probably my ego.
Dr. Justin Rabinowitz:
What do you mean by that?
Dr. Max Powiada:
Well, it feels good for people to call and ask for me specifically or to want to see me and to pump my tires because the game we've played up until now we've kind of won. And what I mean by that is when I first started out, it was like, "How do I get the practice so that Molly can join us?" and it was like, "Check." Then I was like, "How do we get our schedule full?" and then, "Check." So it's like, "Okay, now what?" We're kind of just stuck or we have been stuck until we've actually taken action. I believe that's been the bottleneck because that's all we've ever known. And it's not until we've had breakthroughs from your guidance and from her keeping me accountable that unless something changes, unless our actions change, life's not going to look any different.
Dr. Justin Rabinowitz:
So that's the practice. It's going well and they're learning to grow. But one of the other reasons I wanted to talk to Max and Molly is that being a couple in a practice has its own challenges. I've seen so many couples go into practice together and it becomes really, really difficult. I wanted to dig into just how they're able to separate the practice from their personal lives.
I want to switch gears a little bit. I want to play some clips for you.
Dr. Max Powiada:
We'll start putting parameters on 7:00 AM and 8:00 PM. Before 7:00 is CrossFit training, life, whatever. And same thing with that for 8:00 AM. She'll mention something. I'm like, "I don't want to hear it. We'll talk. Is it emergent, first of all? No?"
Dr. Justin Rabinowitz:
Yeah.
Dr. Max Powiada:
"We'll talk tomorrow."
Dr. Justin Rabinowitz:
So that boundary, and be honest because this is hard, I don't do this by the way, have you been able to keep that boundary in place?
Dr. Max Powiada:
No. There's no balance. There's no balance on the time aspect of it, but there is a balance when it comes to, "Is this emergent or can this wait until tomorrow?"
Dr. Justin Rabinowitz:
Talk to me about that. I like that. Keep going.
Dr. Max Powiada:
So the latter is what is true because we'll be doing something at dinner where we're trying to be present with each other or we'll make it a conscious time of, "Hey, this is time for us to be present with each other, not time to be thinking about the practice or how we can improve upon it," and so we'll catch each other on that. But the time is kind of irrelevant now. We can't detach and we've owned that now for the last few years of the practice, although it's not us, but it is something that we need to be able to manage and water and nurture, and it doesn't matter the time of the day.
Dr. Justin Rabinowitz:
Can you give me an example of, "We are having conversations like, 'Not now. This isn't an emergency'"? Can you remember a specific example where that's happened?
Dr. Max Powiada:
Yeah. I mean, it's still in bed or getting ready for bed. It's like, "Hey, what are we doing?"
Dr. Justin Rabinowitz:
Yeah.
Dr. Max Powiada:
"Is this emergent?" and we've not yet come across a time that the answer's been yes.
Dr. Molly Powiada:
People talk about this word "balance" and I don't know that it actually exists.
Dr. Justin Rabinowitz:
Right.
Dr. Molly Powiada:
I genuinely wake up and enjoy thinking about work. So it's not only our job, but it's something that we're passionate about. And so I think it's kind of fun that we get to consistently speak about something that we are doing together and a world in which we're changing something together and we're having an impact on other people together. That, I think, is very, very cool. And so I don't like to shut it off and it does shoot me in the foot sometimes because I'm the one at 9:00 PM who randomly has a thought that I want to speak out. But I don't know. I don't even know if there's a perfect answer. It probably depends on each individual, each couple, each business in my opinion.
Dr. Justin Rabinowitz:
So is it possible for couples to separate their personal lives from their practice or is it just better to admit that it's not possible and embrace it? I think we should just admit that it isn't possible and we should embrace it because at the end of the day, humans are humans. It's impossible for me as a person to separate who I am as a business owner from who I am as a dad. And in fact, it's been a feature of that. Many of the lessons that I've learned leading people and managing people and managing my emotions very often happen when I have a three-year-old crying and screaming. It isn't exactly the same, but I want to embrace that. I want to be able to use that in my life.
And so people out there who are couples, they just say, "Oh. Well, we'll leave work at work." And it's like, you can, but we're always evolving and changing and it should be a positive, not a negative. Now, if it leaks over and it becomes the only topic of conversation and we never have the actual relationship, yeah, I think that's something else. But I think to deny the idea that the business has changed us, hopefully in a positive way and that should actually help in our relationship, is it's not realistic and I don't even think it would be a good thing.
Molly, staying with you, if you could give one piece of advice to other couples who want to start a practice together, who might be in school now or might be associates and are thinking about taking the deep dive, what would it be?
Dr. Molly Powiada:
The one piece of advice I would give is that if you truly want to be in business with your significant other is to be crystal clear on who's doing what. Being half in ...
Dr. Justin Rabinowitz:
Give me some more tactics there.
Dr. Molly Powiada:
Sure.
Dr. Justin Rabinowitz:
Give me some more specifics because I think most people listening to this, if they're not in our world, but in the general growth of a business world, they don't really know what that means.
Dr. Molly Powiada:
So we started out with just the four pillars of business: marketing, sales, finance, and ops.
Dr. Justin Rabinowitz:
Finance. Yeah, ops.
Dr. Molly Powiada:
And we each picked categories that we were good at. So I'm the director of marketing, he's the director of sales, he's the director of finance, and I'm the director of operations. And so we chose very clearly what that actually meant. I am in charge of the marketing. It doesn't mean that he doesn't do any marketing. It just means that I am accountable for ensuring that our practice is executing on our marketing plan.
Dr. Justin Rabinowitz:
Right.
Dr. Molly Powiada:
And same with him. It doesn't mean that I don't do sales and don't answer the phones or anything like that. It just means that he's responsible for, "Here's where we need to be, here's where we're at, here's the gap, and here's how we're going to fill that gap."
Dr. Justin Rabinowitz:
Max, I want to come to you with that question. What I want to frame it though is most of the time, it's two people that met in chiro school who are both doctors. And so how would you give someone advice when they say, "Yeah, but we both do the same thing because we have the same training"? Is it just tough luck like, "This is a business and you got to do what's required," or how do you even think about that?
Dr. Max Powiada:
For us, you had to step back and figure out what you wanted individually and then what you wanted as couple. And it's partially annoying how long that's taken us to figure out, but it's better late than never. And so the fact that we're on the same page with what we're trying to achieve individually, but also as a couple, has allowed us for us to align our goals so that we're pointing in the right direction together. We're pointing in the same direction together. We talked about having a converging goal versus a diverging goal.
Dr. Justin Rabinowitz:
Was there a time when it was very divergent?
Dr. Max Powiada:
Yeah. I mean, probably for the first few years, right? It's like I was trying to achieve something and we didn't communicate to each other with, "Hey, where are we actually going with this? What do you want personally? What do I want personally? And how do we see if there's a way where we can mold that together?" Because if there's not, then that's probably not the right move to do because at some point the car's going to crash, metaphorically speaking.
Dr. Justin Rabinowitz:
If you're listening to this and you're looking to elevate your practice, just go to the link in the show notes and talk to our team. We have a massive community of people just like you who have taken their practice to the next level so send us a message if you're interested in doing that. We have a live event coming up in early May. It's actually May 15th through 17th so there's still time. It's called Rehab Chiro Mastermind Live and we still have tickets available. We'll be talking about why most rehab chiros get stuck and that it's their inability to clearly communicate in their clinic. The links and the details for all of that are in the show notes. I'm Dr. Justin Rabinowitz and this has been Business School for the Rehab Chiropractor.