Reframe

with Erin Hauk                             

For decades, most people have viewed utilities through a simple lens: keep the lights on and the power flowing. But in this episode of Reframe, Erin Hauk, Sustainability Program Manager at Puget Sound Energy, challenges that perception, arguing that utilities are uniquely positioned to become some of the most influential drivers of energy efficiency, building decarbonization, and community-wide sustainability.


Erin's journey started far from the utility world. After theater school, she became a Starbucks barista and espresso machine repairer before landing a corporate facilities role during the pandemic. That hands-on experience turned out to be foundational. She explains that building facilities managers who already track preventive maintenance and equipment health are "more than halfway" to compliance with Washington State's Clean Buildings Performance Standard. 


She says the challenge is rarely operational readiness, but documentation and awareness. This insight shapes how PSE administers its Clean Buildings Accelerator Program, which walks larger Tier 1 and smaller Tier 2 building owners through compliance with one-on-one coaching, virtual scans, and cohort-based support.


One of Erin's most compelling observations is that the clean energy transition isn't fundamentally a technology challenge: it's a people challenge. She argues that utilities possess deep technical expertise—citing engineers, usage-pattern data, and established customer relationships that position them to guide the adoption of newer technologies, where consumer awareness often lags what's actually available. 


She contrasts this with the disjointed experience many building owners face: separate processes for benchmarking, operations and maintenance plans, capital planning, and financing, with no clear throughline. Utilities, she suggests, are well placed to help stitch that journey together because they already sit at the intersection of customer relationships and technical resources.


The episode's emotional anchor is Erin's story about a grieving orca mother from the Pacific Northwest, which she says permanently reoriented her toward environmental work. It’s a connection that resurfaces literally in her current role, as PSE balances hydropower generation with salmon and orca population health on the Baker River. She uses this, along with a callback to the 1990s six-pack-ring turtle PSA, to argue that data and compliance mandates alone won't shift behavior. Storytelling and emotional connection are what make sustainability feel urgent and personal.


Perhaps Erin's most hopeful message is that the tools needed to build a more sustainable future already exist. The challenge is creating the awareness, trust, and momentum to use them. When utilities embrace their role as educators, conveners, and community partners—not simply energy providers—they become powerful catalysts for change.


Erin closes by encouraging listeners weighing a career pivot to look specifically at utilities, describing her move into the industry as a chance to apply corporate strategic thinking toward something bigger than the bottom line, and calling out that "fixed mindsets," not a lack of resources, are the real obstacle to progress.


The Reframe podcast is hosted by Jeff Nichols and presented by Pilotlight. If you have questions or feedback for the Reframe team, please email us: reframe@pilotlight.ai


Creators and Guests

Host
Jeff Nichols
Jeff is the Host and Co-Producer of Reframe, founder / CEO of Pilotlight and a passionate advocate for building sustainability.
Producer
Eric Opel
Eric is Co-Producer of Reframe and Marketing Director @ Pilotlight
Guest
Erin Hauk
Program Manager, Puget Sound Energy
Producer
Robert Haskitt
Robert Haskitt is the Producer and Creator of The Reframe Podcast

What is Reframe?

Reframe is the podcast about building sustainability.

Commercial and public buildings are among the biggest producers of carbon emissions. It’s a problem of massive scale. But, for building owners, engineers and contractors, solving it may actually be more of an opportunity than a challenge. That’s what the “Reframe” podcast is all about. Join host Jeff Nichols on an exploration of the forces driving sustainability in our built environment. And meet the people who are leading the charge.

Reframe Podcast Ep20 - Erin Hauk
Transcript

Erin: [00:00:00] This isn't just about fines for your building, right? This is about affordability, it's about efficiency, and it's about having smoother operations. It's also about impact on the planet.

Jeff: Welcome back to Reframe. I'm Jeff Nichols. There are roughly twenty-eight thousand covered buildings in Washington and Oregon that need to comply with new building performance standards. But in Washington, as of July, there are less than three thousand applications that have been completed. That gap is the story.
And my guest today is Erin Hauk, a program manager of Puget Sound Energy, one of the largest utilities in Washington State. She leads the Clean Buildings [00:01:00] Accelerator, a free program helping building owners comply with Washington's new clean building standard. I wanna talk to Erin about why owners feel overwhelmed, why most are closer to compliance than they think, and the orca that changed the trajectory of her career Erin, welcome to Reframe.

Erin: Thank you so much. I'm delighted to be here.

Jeff: We met in Boise at the Energy Efficiency Exchange, and I just, I couldn't help but kind of be drawn in by your story and background. But why, why don't you tell us, how did, how did you get to here? What did you do before Puget Sound Energy? And, and tell us a little bit about what you do.

Erin: I'd love to. So I had kind of a long and ambling path to where I'm at today. Um, I first went into a theater program, fresh out of high school, wanted to change the world, wanted to make a difference with storytelling, so I entered into an original works playwriting and directing program at [00:02:00] Cornish College of the Arts, and I ran out of money, which can happen sometimes if you're trying to go to school in the arts.
So I dropped out of college and went to work as a barista on Capitol Hill for Starbucks. And as I was making coffee in the morning, I was working on theater at night, uh, I was doing electrical work and lighting design, um, and this opportunity came up through Starbucks to head into corporate in the facilities contact center.
That turned into an opportunity to learn more about espresso machines because of my experience with theater electrical work. Uh, I knew how to read electrical diagrams, and that was not a common skill set apparently. I ended up becoming an espresso repair technician, and I just said yes to every opportunity I had, and I kept exploring what else was out there.
I ended up getting an opportunity to be a project manager on sustainability [00:03:00] work. So I rolled out initiatives to replace water filtration systems that wasted more water with more efficient ones. Uh, and I also got to launch the energy management systems for Starbucks. From 2012, 2013, to about 2015, we put 4,000 energy management systems into sites, and then we really started to understand about energy consumption, HVAC, the impact of HVAC, comfort, uh, built environment, all these things that led me into facilities management.
So for five years I was a facility manager for Starbucks for the Seattle metropolitan area. That happened during COVID and a lot of civil unrest, and facilities management can be pretty stressful. I was starting to have some health impacts. Uh, there was a lot of on-call work, um, and I hit a point of reflection and I started thinking about what had been really meaningful to me and I went back to that [00:04:00] sustainability project work.
So I took an opportunity through Starbucks College Achievement Program to enroll at Arizona State University and go for a Bachelor of Arts in Sustainability. When I finished my degree, uh, I was a senior project manager at the time, um, doing these, these mass rollouts for Starbucks, putting new equipment into stores.
And the buyout opportunity came in the summer of 2025, and I thought, "You know what? This is my opportunity to change my careers. This is an opportunity for me to leave what I know and do something new, figure out how to take the skills and the career and the experience that I've built, and find a really meaningful way to impact people, the planet, and, and the future."
Uh, and as I was looking around to see what was out there, this opportunity at Puget Sound Energy, uh, came across my inbox, uh, and I [00:05:00] applied for it, and that has been the most amazing opportunity to go learn more about utilities and immerse myself in an entirely new industry, but also to see where all of the background that I have is able to connect, support, empower, and unlock these other opportunities to try to help, uh, move the utility forward

Jeff: I think in this time, you know, especially in Seattle, right, as big tech sheds jobs, there are a lot of people at these crossroads, and I think sometimes, you know, when it's, it's not clear exactly where you're going, you know, it can feel overwhelming and, you know, how do I find that next paycheck and pay my mortgage and all that kind of stuff.
But I also think it can be an incredible opportunity to really, to really get focused on what really matters. That was certainly part of my story and why I wanted to get into this space. What could I do to contribute to the climate change fight? You know, I always thought, like, there's no [00:06:00] place for me.
I'm not gonna invent the next solar panel. I'm not a scientist. I'm not gonna, you know, solve fusion kinda thing. And the reality is there's so many roles. I mean, it-- there's so many functional roles from finance to marketing to sales. Actually, marketing, sales, storytelling and sales, I think especially in the clean tech or climate space, there's so much demand for that.

Erin: Oh, I agree. I agree, absolutely. And I think one of the things that, that comes with folks who've spent-- who, who've come up through the chain in a corporate environment is this understanding of ROI and kind of a, a-- there's a drive that you have if you've been able to make it in a more fast-paced environment, and there's a, an ability to pitch and tell and take people through why this thing is important that builds you support, um, and helps kind of give you more agency to keep driving the work forward.
So that's something that I bring with me. Um, [00:07:00] but the other thing that, that I think... I don't know if you remember the story in 2017 or 2018 of the whale, the orca, uh, the member of the southern resident, um, believe she's the J pod, so who lost her infant and then, and then pushed her infant through the water.
That ended up really creating this connection for me with the impact that we as humans are having on the natural world and the environment around us, and that led me to start to really question, like, something has to change We have to be more thoughtful about what and how we are using these resources.
These are exhaustible, and we are having an impact on the beings that we share the planet with. We're having an impact on the planet that we can't untangle. So one of the things that was really compelling for me is the story of how PSE is working [00:08:00] with, uh, helping the salmon population in Baker River so we can have both hydro and flourishing salmon populations.
Like, how do we have both? How do we challenge ourselves to acknowledge a thing and then take steps to address it?

Jeff: Totally. I think in this space there's so many false choices. You can either have this or that, and I, I challenge some of the core premise of that. But so what is your role at PSE? What do you do?

Erin: I'm a program manager managing the Clean Buildings Accelerator Program. So Washington is out ahead of the curve as a state with legislation mandating that buildings meet these energy use intensity targets because we want to address climate change, and buildings are, as you know, a massive source of impact for this

Jeff: So tell me about the program

Erin: Clean Buildings Accelerator is an award-winning program that Puget Sound Energy launched to help customers achieve compliance with Washington State's Clean Buildings Performance [00:09:00] Standard.

Jeff: Maybe explain what the Washington State Clean Building Standard is.

Erin: The Clean Buildings Performance Standard looks at existing buildings over a certain square footage. There's sort of a tiered requirement that we're coming up on. Um, and building owners must ensure that their buildings meet the energy use intensity target, as well as having a suite of materials around how they're gonna maintain that.
So PSE, uh, developed a program in partnership with an implementer, Stillwater, where we take customers through a cohort. We demystify what you're actually on the hook for when it comes to compliance. We talk through how to achieve that, and we're able to provide, in this free program, support for customers to essentially do it themselves.
Their qualified energy managers can go ahead and get the support. Uh, we have one-on-one energy coaching calls. Uh, we talk them through a virtual scan, and then we help those customers build a plan so that they can [00:10:00] submit for compliance without having to contract a third party. They can do it themselves with that support of someone who understands the law and can sort of untangle it for them.
Um, and then support. So we, we have the tier one cohorts. We just launched our 24th cohort. We've had over 300 buildings that have come through this program. Uh, we rolled out tier two support in February, which is a little bit different. With tier two, you don't have the EUIT. So what we do is have a little bit more of an a la carte program where customers can join and get support.
We have webinars, we have office hours, and we talk them through what the materials are that they're gonna have to prepare, and then how to consider that for their own building. Um, I would, I would just give a really quick plug for tier two. There are a lot of early adopter incentives on the table, um, which are easy for tier two customers to achieve because it's [00:11:00] essentially compiling your materials and then commerce is really great in working with customers or with building owners to achieve compliance.
Any tier two customer who doesn't have it on their radar that they should be starting to put their documentation together should definitely be considering it, uh, to get, to get some of that early adopter incentive cash.

Jeff: Let's talk about the, the state of kinda clean building performance standard compliance, 'cause I think that's interesting, kinda in the rough time, you know, where we stand.
But, but I also, I'm really fascinated to kinda go behind the curtain a little bit. I think utilities, you know, so many people they... It kinda feels like this big monolith, right? But, but to give us a flavor of the types of conversations or how you're, you're thinking about this. I think for those that maybe aren't super familiar, right, you know, buildings, next to transportation, we're the largest greenhouse gas contributors.

Erin: Yeah.

Jeff: Uh, which is the primary driver of climate change. [00:12:00] You know, you got residential buildings, commercial buildings. We have both how we build new buildings, um, and then we have existing buildings. And I think the thing that most, the average person doesn't really think about is that 80% of the buildings that are gonna exist in 2050 have already been built.
And so new buildings are relatively easy to tackle, right? I mean, we have to have kinda the political will, but change building codes and, you know, people build it to a more efficient kinda standard. It's the existing buildings that's tough, and that's where building performance standards are really trying to drive, especially the, the split incentive.
'Cause most commercial buildings, the people that occupy them and run them and pay the utility bill are not the folks that own the asset or the, you know, the HVAC equipment and that sort of thing. And so to me, as I've kinda realized, like it's really good governance. This has an impact on all of us. Yep.
How do we create some common sense legislation? And this first wave is really about assessing where are we? Where [00:13:00] is the building stock? How efficient or inefficient is it? And especially in Washington State, what I'm so proud of being a, you know, a citizen or resident here, is that you have to have some sort of stick or consequence if people do nothing.

Erin: Yes.

Jeff: And so we've got, you know, I think some pretty measured, but still, you know, it's, it's meaningful kind of financial penalties if people do absolutely nothing This isn't about, you know, uh, finding people. That's at least my perception, right? No. It really is about how do we, how do we assess where we are?
We need some data. We need people to kind of, you know, be a part of the solution versus just continuing to do what they're doing. So anyways, I... Oftentimes we think of government and it's like, "Ah, Big Brother," and this, and it's like, no, no, actually it's the opposite. We have a lot of resources to help you.

Erin: Absolutely. Commerce has put so much out there to try to help building owners, and I think my, my experience so far is that the focus is, is less punitive and really [00:14:00] more on engaging around compliance and understanding what do you need to get to compliance. Mm-hmm. Where are you at? It's that benchmarking piece.
So I think, I think what's really fascinating, too, as we've been engaging with some tier two customers in the program, is that there's just not a lot of awareness. Um, and there's so much, there's so much concern about where do I even start? It's overwhelming to understand what you need to do. But as we've been talking through the O&M plans, there is such a direct tie into facilities work and facilities management.
If you are a facilities manager who has your PM dialed in and, and you have a good sense for how you're maintaining your, your... the equipment in your building, you're more than halfway there. It's really just a matter of documentation. And one of the things that I think has also been really fascinating is that I have some expertise with [00:15:00] facilities management systems and in leveraging facilities management systems.
I think there are so many folks who, who are closer than they think they are to compliance. Mm. It's just being able to understand how you document it. How do you put it... How do you package it? How do you package and, uh, summarize what you're already planning to do? That's, that's kind of the big- Yeah
unlock for me.

Jeff: Totally. Well, I, I think i- if we zoom out and kind of, you know, first look at the state of compliance, and I know this is kind of more of a commerce, and we're just talking Washington State versus, you know, City of Seattle. Roughly 28,000 tier one, t- tier two buildings, and we have less than 2,000 applications.
And so when you kinda step back, at least kinda roughly where we stand now, we're not pacing, at least, to a majority, right? And so I'm kinda curious, like, what is your thought on [00:16:00] why is that, and, like, what are the kinda conversations or how, how are people thinking about that, you know, from a regulator standpoint?

Erin: So, I think awareness is a big element, but I also think prioritization is a bit of a challenge. And that's one of the things about, um, my experience on the facilities side is that it's incredibly reactive, right? You are dealing with all of these problems that are creating a very, very real barrier for the people who are using your spaces.
You have plumbing leaks, you have, um, HVACs down, summer's coming up, things aren't heating. These reactive issues, I think end up taking the forefront of, of space in how people are supporting and managing spaces, right? S- proactive things or, or getting out ahead of it seems to be historically less of a focus for the facilities industry.
And I think that that has [00:17:00] been changing and there's even more opportunity to get proactive with that. Um, just on a side note, I think there's so much space in facilities to lean into energy and energy efficiency. I think every facilities manager in the Washington State area who has not taken the Smart Buildings Qualified Energy Manager course should absolutely do that.
You should be doing that. You should be understanding how you can increase your skills when it comes to energy management, because it's gonna save you money and it's going to save runtime, and it's gonna reduce your R&M spend on your equipment. At the same time, um, kinda going back to your question about why and what are we doing My perspective has really been to try to unlock what can we do to help building owners who come in kind of on the late [00:18:00] end and need to be able to catch up, how can we give paths to getting their benchmarking in and connected to ENERGY STAR Portfolio Manager?
How can we make it really easy to say yes to joining a cohort? We've added an extra cohort in a time when we usually wouldn't, so we can try to help folks, uh, still get on board and make it through the first four months of the sprint before we hit that kinda six-month after deadline spot, um, that'll come around December.
Uh, but we've been trying to figure out how can we strategize to support folks who come in and need help after the fact, and what are the ways to make it easy to say yes and engage. And then also, how do we make sure that we are being clear about the requirements for this path? Um, one of the things that I think is interesting as we've been watching, [00:19:00] uh, as we've been watching some of the incentives and, uh, compliance come in from Commerce, I'm noticing that a lot of folks are outsourcing this, right?
And leveraging consultants, which makes sense. You wanna do something easy, and you wanna get that help, and you wanna just not worry about it, have a solution, uh, meet your compliance, and, and not have to be concerned. But I think I would encourage folks to leverage a program like CBA even if you're resource-constrained, because it's, it's not that much of a lift to what you've already been doing, and we can help.

Jeff: Change is hard. You know? Yes. I, I think fundamentally, you know, I think about a lot of my background was, uh, software implementations, and the hardest part of those projects was the, you know, not the technology, right? It was the, the people change associated with it. And I think the commercial real estate, this is a seismic shift.
And so I, I think, you know, it's not surprising, right? That [00:20:00] maybe, uh, there isn't broad awareness, but, um, I think one thing people don't realize, there's a performance period, right? Yes. So it's, it's not just hitting a deadline, it's like you gotta work 12 months back from that, and that's one misperception I think, um, people aren't real clear about either, but-

Erin: In fact, for those tier one customers, for the over 220,000 square foot buildings who didn't have their plan in place by June 2025, technically you're already out of the gate behind the eight ball, right?
Because you're not- Yeah ... gonna have the 12 months, uh, of operationalizing your program when you submit for compliance.

Jeff: Right.

Erin: Right. At the same time, Commerce is willing to work with applicants, and has been just encouraging building owners to connect and reach out and get on the list. So I think trying to make sure that we don't have this sense of, "Oh, I've already missed it, I'll just, I'll just pay the fine."
It's like, [00:21:00] no, no, no, no, no. Let's come to the table, reach out to Commerce, work with your utility, get your benchmarking, do what you can, because at the end of the day- This isn't just about fines for your building, right? This is about having a way to operate a more efficient building going forward. This is about affordability, it's about efficiency, and it's about having smoother operations.
It's also about impact on the planet, and I think that's something that people don't have front of mind, right?

Jeff: Mm.

Erin: We just use things, and we'll worry about them when they're not there anymore, and we can't take that approach to leveraging resources anymore.

Jeff: Yeah, there's a smarter way. But I'm, I'm curious because tier one, you know, much smaller number percentage of the 28,000.
Tier two is, [00:22:00] like, 18,000 of that 28,000. Yeah. And, you know, so we're already kinda resource constrained. We don't maybe have folks who have the background or expertise who have done this, or they just don't have bandwidth in tier one. Well, now we're going to tier two who have even less resources and that sort of thing.
What are the conversations like as we think about, you know, maybe what worked for tier one, it's gotta look a little different for tier two if we're gonna be, you know, be helpful.

Erin: Absolutely. So the tier two buildings are less resourced. Less resourced, and some of the folks we've started to see coming through the program are volunteers, or not, not full-time allocated towards facilities management.
So these are people who are highly incented in not paying the fine, right? These are houses of worship, uh, they're programs and buildings that don't have a lot of resources to fall back on. But what's also been fascinating is these are folks [00:23:00] who have already made improvements or capital improvements or are looking at building envelope and trying to see what they can do because there's also a desire to have that affordability in support of their building.
I think that's one of the things that's also been fascinating for me as somebody who's new to utility is I genuinely did not know about grants and incentives that are available for energy efficiency work. And that seems ridiculous, like I, I should have known about that, but I didn't know, and so now I've been trying to make sure and get the word out, um, in helping some of these building owners understand.
We had someone who came through the program who had already done some capital improvements and their work was eligible for a retroactive grant. So- Oh,

Jeff: cool.

Erin: Yeah. So we were able to real time help and say, "Look, you've got your paperwork done and you've already made this investment. Let us connect you with somebody who can help you get a little bit of money back to help with that."[00:24:00]

Jeff: So I'm just kinda curious, like w- how do people talk about this? Like, is it... You know, for the utility, I, I keep thinking, well, there, there is savings, right? So if we make our buildings more efficient- Yes ... that means we have to do less on the power generation side. But like how is the building performance standard, how does the utilities, how do you guys look at that?

Erin: So from a Clean Buildings Accelerator perspective, this is an opportunity to engage with customers and support customers in doing something that's mutually beneficial. Customers get to compliance, and we're achieving energy efficiency, which is necessary from a utility perspective, not just because of CETA, right, Clean Energy Transformation Act, but also from a generation perspective.
So for us, we want to be helping customers meet compliance and reduce their consumption, mutually beneficial. But it's also a, a great way for us to connect customers to those other grants and incentives that are out there that [00:25:00] might help solve problems that they're uncovering as they're looking at their O&M, as they're starting to do virtual scans, uh, for those tier one buildings with their energy coach.
CBA is essentially strategic energy management light. It's like an intro to some of the things you'd need to consider, um-

Jeff: Right ...

Erin: through the lens of compliance. But that's where this is a chance to continue partnering with customers and helping them meet those goals, achieve more efficiency, achieve more affordability, uh, and limit their use.
It also lets us build that relationship, so then as we have more incentives and more things coming out, we can share them with alumni or folks who've gone through the program, um, and help continue on that energy efficiency pathway.

Jeff: You know, utility is one of the few industries where, you know, you deliver power to the meter, and then you're kinda in the dark [00:26:00] about, well, what's behind that?
How is it being used? And I think that's one of the big opportunities is starting to peel that back. And as part of compliance, you know, I think most people know this, but you know, you have to inventory all the equipment that's in a building. And one of the opportunities I see as part of this is You know, the, there are these natural inflection points.
So when a piece of equipment, you know, hits its end of useful life, right? If we have the detail on that, well now we could be more targeted in incentives to say, "Hey, we know you're likely gonna upgrade your, you know, boiler," or whatever it is, um, you know, "Here's a- an additional incentive. If you're gonna do that, don't just pick the, the cheapest one.
Let's pick the most efficient one, and we're gonna incentivize you to do that 'cause of the win-win."

Erin: I'm, I'm super fascinated with organizations like Nia because then- Yeah ... you have, you have this really interesting intersection of a customer with a need state, right, with equipment that's at its end of useful life.[00:27:00]
Uh, there's no more ROI in fixing it. You're just throwing money away, and you know you have this opportunity. You have a utility that is incented to, to use less, right, to manage that resourcing, and then you have technology that is advancing or coming out where we are kind of at the forefront, and there might not be enough of an adopter curve for people to know en masse that this new technology is out there and why to use it.
Mm. So there are some great opportunities in that to be able to say, "Let's try this. Let's try this heat pump water heater and see what it does. Uh, you've got an incentive on it, and we know it's going to help you," or even customers who are looking at electrification. So I think what's interesting from a utilities perspective for me is that you have this ability to start thinking about things differently, and that has been what has been so fascinating for me moving into [00:28:00] sort of a new realm.
There is so much expertise. Puget Sound Energy, there is so much expertise on the energy efficiency side. There are engineers who are incredibly experienced, uh, and have really great background, and there's a lot of new technology that's coming out. I think there's this opportunity to try to really keep looking at new work differently.
There are ways for us to think about new ways of working and to make it not a referendum on the old ways of working, right? It's new information. It is an opportunity to try new things, um, with the freedom to change or adjust or come up with a different way at the end of it

Jeff: I think one of the things that's interesting, Erin, is, you know, there are a lot of incentives.
There, there's money to help building owners to make their buildings more efficient. I think one [00:29:00] of the challenges I see is that if you put yourself in a building or an asset owner's perspective, it, it feels very disjointed. It's like, "Okay, I've gotta, I gotta be compliant," and there's like multiple steps, right?
There's getting your EUIT or your O&M, your EMP. But then, you know, once you have that done, if you're over target, then there's like this separate process of capital planning and like how do we make it more efficient, and then there's the how do we pay for it? And, you know, at the end of the day, I think people just wanna like, "Okay, I wanna do what I have to do or what I'm obligated to do."
Everything seems still so disjointed or disconnected versus if we thought about a customer experience or customer journey from like beginning to end and how does that flow, I think that's one of the challenges we have right now is that it's, it's disjointed. It... Th- You know, there is no natural flow.
It's, you know, this separate stakeholder, this separate process, right?

Erin: I hear what you're saying, and I'm kinda thinking through that. In my previous life at Starbucks, we had [00:30:00] such clear planning cycles around- Mm. ... strategic capital management and programming and understanding that ROI. That was really something that was just baked into our annual operating plan and, and into our strategy.
So it is a little tricky for me to shift gears and adjust to a building owner perspective or an operator perspective where you're not thinking about that R&M line, understanding your equipment health and planning for that. I don't know what the solution is to create that sort of seamless process. It was interesting at EFX, there does seem to be some really cool development sort of in the world of people thinking about solving these problems for small bills- businesses, and what are ways that technology or software platforms can help, can enable different [00:31:00] strategic ways of thinking, uh, can solve for funding.
But to your point, I don't think it's seamless yet. Yeah. Yeah. I think the more states that start to look at legislation, I think the more that we create a universal expectation of efficiency in buildings, the more people will start to implement this, and you'll see that change curve start to move.

Jeff: Yeah.
Yeah. No, I, I agree. I, I think it's gonna take collaboration across a lot of different stakeholder groups and kind of parties, and it's, it's new. And so with that, you know, a lot of this stuff we're... And w- as you said, Washington State, we're doing this for the first time, and what I think is really cool, you know, you mentioned that the Clean Building Accelerator is an award-winning program.
It's been interesting to see that a, a lot of other utilities have really picked up the model that PSE and Stillwater have started and, and that's kinda become, you know, a standard now for, like, this is, this is one of the ways or [00:32:00] motions that we can really support folks to, uh, to go through this process, so.

Erin: I did not know about the program before I learned about the role. Um, and I think building more advocacy and awareness of that is something that I'm really excited about now that I am in role. Making sure that people know it's out there, um, making sure that people know that there's help, and there's a way to help demystify what you have to do if you are a small building owner, if you are someone who is covered.
I've talked a couple times about tier two, which is an element of the program that I'm, I'm particularly attached to because it rolled out during my time here. Um, but also because the, the human interaction with people who are concerned, who then are able to get support and find themselves becoming confident and move forward with achieving the standard.
It's also, for me, part of that intersection of, of [00:33:00] storytelling and excitement around building a need for sustainability and making sustainability urgent for people because you come to compliance and walk away with a way to really operationalize and implement using less as a practice. I think that's one of the things that we have an opportunity for in the US right now is, is really shifting our focus to pragmatism.
Uh, and I know that, that it's hard to start thinking about resourcing as finite, but it's critical that we start thinking about resourcing as finite and that we are looking at ways to To change and adjust and evolve. We can't just accept that the way a thing is is how it will always be. And that's kind of the, the mindset too.
We can't just [00:34:00] accept, um, we have to be able to see how to solve this problem. My favorite, one of my favorite leaders during my time at Starbucks was an SVP who was a mechanical engineer, and he would always talk about how there's a solution for every problem. We just haven't found it yet. So you gotta get creative, and you gotta think differently, and you have to, like, winnow in on what specifically is the problem and why it's a problem, and then you can start to unlock how to solve that problem.

Jeff: Mm. Mm-hmm.

Erin: But when you do it, you have to have diversity of viewpoint. Uh, you have to have a lot of different ways of thinking. You have to be able to look at it from all different facets to actually get to that solution. I think it's a really exciting time in the utility industry right now because there seems to be an understanding of how we need more ways of looking at problems.
Um, and there is an interest [00:35:00] and an appetite to hear different points of view. So I'm really excited to be able to help diversify viewpoint and get a lot of different people looking at different ways to solve a specific problem.

Jeff: So, Erin, like, what do you see next? Like, as you kinda look out and kinda get out your crystal ball, like, what do you, what do you see coming?
What are you thinking about?

Erin: In the short term, I'm thinking about scale. Like, how do we scale this program for tier two? Because you've been mentioning the number of buildings, and we're gonna have an influx, and it's going to exceed kind of the high-touch support that we've been able to do helping folks individually.
So I'm really curious, how do we quickly and efficiently scale up? That's kind of the near term. But the longer term, I think we really have to think differently about sustainability. One of the things that is really fascinating, by 2050, [00:36:00] uh, something like 67% of the world's population is gonna be in urban settings, and it's harder to feel passionate or urgent about making a change if you don't have a connection to the thing that you're changing.
So as we're dealing with an increasingly urbanized population who may not have personal connection to nature, how do we make it urgent and necessary and relevant to keep changing behavior patterns? How do we make people care? Um, I think about the, uh, everybody remembers that PSA from the late '90s with the turtle with the six-pack holder stuck on its shell, and- I still cut six-pack holders when we are opening containers.
I don't, I don't think bubbly water comes with six-pack holders anymore. Like, I haven't seen one in a really long time. But if I did see one, I would cut it because I have that storytelling connection to the turtle, and I can't-- I would feel compelled to protect things. [00:37:00] So I'm really curious what... I think we have to solve what is the way to make sustainability personal, urgent, and relevant to people.
Hmm. Um, I don't think that individual behavior is the only thing that will change, but I do think that individual behavior and sort of, um, a groundswell demanding an increase of sustainability work is one of the things we have to have to be able to find the solutions and the outcomes that we need.

Jeff: It really is a question of values.
Absolutely. You know, do we value the environment? Do we value leaving the planet better for future generations? And if you do, then actually a lot of things, you know, logical things kinda flow from that. If we can't get people to care, if we can't tell stories, if we can't connect, then I, I think it's gonna be a, a real uphill battle.

Erin, I think you have, given your background, a really unique perspective because you've managed facilities, but [00:38:00] now you're a part of a utility. How has your view changed that, you know, maybe you saw as a facility manager the utility in one way when you sat in that seat, and now you're in this other seat.
How do you view it, or what do you think the misconception is?

Erin: That is a good question. So the parallel for me, at Starbucks we had kinda two separate entities. There's the, the operations side, right, where you're serving customers, and then there's the corporate side, which is where I spent most of my time, even though I did start in the ops side.
At the utilities, there's kind of a similar set with operations, the day-to-day folks, resilience, like getting power into spaces. Those are the folks who are responding when there's an emergency, and that is a group that has these really specific requirements, um, and a ton of expertise. And then there's the sort of strategy side, planning side, the, the corporate [00:39:00] side.
Um, and I would say that there's so much more to it than you think. There's complexity and regulation and strategy and cycles that I'm still getting up to speed on learning. I certainly didn't have visibility to that at the end of use. And I think about now understanding a little more about what it takes when we were running into problems in the past in my previous role with power service to a site, right?
And we need to increase our power service. Understanding a little more on the back end about what goes into that now has really changed and shifted the way I would think going forward about strategizing energy use, especially in small spaces.

Jeff: I think it's really fascinating. It, it, it's, it's one of these industries or things like people [00:40:00] don't think about it.
They think about it when it's not there, right? When the power's out, like, then they think about it a lot. So it makes a lot of sense. But the, the, the, the strategy behind that, I think more and more, especially as we look at, you know, the role of AI and data centers and demands on the grid and, you know, resilience and the impact, you know, just, you know, extreme weather events, right, driven by climate change, uh, I think, uh, my sense is that it's gonna become more of a topic, you know, or, or enter people's consciousness more than it's, say, it does today, which I think is a good thing.

Erin: I would strongly encourage people, uh, who are looking around at what else to do or just wanna find a change, look at your utilities. There's so much cool stuff going on, and it's really a great opportunity to use some of those strategic problem-solving skills that we had built to essentially increase profit or, you know, [00:41:00] reduce bottom line.
I love being able to apply those skills towards something bigger, like energy efficiency.

Jeff: What compelled you to make a shift?

Erin: I needed to be doing something that would make the world a better place. Uh, I needed to be doing something that would preserve the planet for not just my kids, but my children's children and everybody else's children's children.
Um, we have been Hurdling forward without taking any kind of a feedback loop approach, right? And with your background in technology, you know how important it is to be agile and stop and check and measure, adjust, and, and see the impact of what you're doing. I think one of the things that was so fascinating for me learning about sustainability is that we [00:42:00] have not taken the opportunity to understand the impact of technology on the natural world.
So that's where the salmon situation and the southern resident killer whales really did become a rabbit hole I went down when I was in school. I wrote a number of papers on them. Um, I, I found myself, uh, joining the local Orca Conservancy. Um, we ended up sending out Valentine's cards for my kids that were, uh, Orca Conservancy, I'm gonna do a plug for them.
They do Valentine's cards that you can buy and get the PDFs, and then they have, uh, all the names of different pods in the whales, and they're very, very charming. But that kind of made me feel the extra need to figure out, like, what, what are the resources that we're using that are having a significant impact on the animals, the plants, the elements in nature that we share the world with, and how can [00:43:00] we adjust that?
Um, I think also I like to spend a lot of time out in nature. My family likes to spend a lot of time out in nature. Um, I got myself an orca tattoo, uh, in December, and that has been part of one of the things every once in a while when I see my arm on a camera in a meeting, I remember, "Oh yeah, that's why I'm here."
I'm here because we have to have sustainable hydro. Um, and sustainable hydro means, people talk about clean hydro, and I appreciate that it is clean in that it's not using, it's carbon neutral, right? But how sustainable is a resource if it is creating extinction? That's not sustainable. There's nothing sustainable about that when you look at your impact on the world.
So how do we think about it differently, and how do we remove the complacency and [00:44:00] lean into needing a different way? You can solve every problem. You just have to prioritize it.

Jeff: So what is your nemesis?

Erin: Ugh, fixed mindset. It just, I, I, uh, like I feel that in my entire body. Um, complacency, that fixed mindset piece of this is just how it is.
Uh, I understand why people find themselves in that place, but there's so much possibility and there's so much we can do as individuals when we start to embrace why not, uh, when we start to, this is where the theater background comes in, but yes and goes a long, long way. There is no reason why we can't be the ones to change things.

Jeff: Mm. Well said. Erin, [00:45:00] I find your story fascinating. From theater to barista to facility management to realizing like I want, I wanna align my vocation with my values to going back to school and now, um, you know, leading the Clean Buildings Accelerator at PSC. Um, I'm so thankful that we have you in the fight, you know, leading the charge.
Um- Oh,

Erin: I am so grateful to be here, and I have to tell you, uh, I have said many times this year that I feel like I need to pinch myself. It is, it feels like a dream that I get to be working in energy efficiency. I have so much gratitude that I get to have values-based work. Um, this is like, this is living the dream.
This is what do you wanna do when you get to grow up kinda stuff, and I'm so excited because I think there's a [00:46:00] lot more that we can figure out moving forward with clean buildings compliance, um,

Jeff: What a fun conversation with Erin. I just, I love her energy and her overall approach to her work. Here are three of the things I took away from our conversation. The first takeaway is there's a seat for you in this fight. Erin didn't invent a new solar panel, but every chapter of her winding path shows up in her climate work today.
This fight needs storytellers, operators, and even salespeople, not just scientists. The second takeaway is if you're a building owner, you're closer than you think on compliance. If your preventative maintenance is dialed in, you're more than halfway there. The rest is simply documentation. [00:47:00] And wherever you are, help exists.
Building performance standards are rolling out across the country, and in most markets, there's a utility program, a city resource, or incentive money waiting to be claimed. And here in Washington, PSE's Clean Building Accelerator is free, and Commerce wants to work with you. The barrier isn't capability, it's just getting started.
Which leads me to the final takeaway. The real nemesis is the status quo. The biggest obstacle isn't deadlines or budgets. It's the fixed mindset about our buildings, our energy bills, our industry that says, "This is just how it is." Change is hard, and we are seeing this with BPS compliance. Here's my reframe.
Most owners see the clean building standard as a fine to avoid. Some think they've already missed their window. [00:48:00] But the deadline isn't a hard wall. It's a door that's still open with free coaching from your utility and a regulator that would rather help you than fine you. Compliance isn't the cost of owning a building. It's the on-ramp to a better one.
Thanks for listening to Reframe. Until next time.

Announcer: You've been listening to Reframe, the show about building sustainability. Presented by Pilotlight. Opinions shared by Reframe guests aren't necessarily the views of their companies. If you'd like to learn more about the podcast, the show's host, guest, or topics, check out this episode's show notes or visit pilotlight.ai/podcast.
Got a question for the Reframe team? Drop us a note at reframe@pilotlight.ai. The Reframe podcast features original music by Dyaphonic. The show is produced by Robert Haskitt with Eric [00:49:00] Opel and the show's host, Jeff Nichols. Before you go, this would be a great place to hit pause in your podcast app and then hit that little plus sign up in the corner to follow the show. That way, you'll never miss an episode.
Thanks for joining us.