Maximum Lawyer

Watch the YouTube version of this episode HERE


Networking is not about collecting the most business cards, LinkedIn connections, or phone numbers. In this episode, Tyson Mutrux challenges law firm owners to stop measuring success by how many people they meet and start paying attention to the relationships they actually build. He shares how curiosity, better questions, genuine listening, and thoughtful introductions can make you far more memorable than another polished elevator pitch.


With MaxLawCon week here, Tyson breaks down a simple approach you can use at any conference, mastermind, bar event, or chance conversation. You will learn how to enter a room with intention without becoming transactional, find uncommon commonalities, follow up in a way that continues the relationship, and use the 3-3-3 Challenge to create three real conversations, remember three meaningful details, and make three useful introductions.


What You'll Learn
  • Why meeting people and building relationships are not the same thing
  • How to enter a conference with intention without treating people like transactions
  • Why follow-up questions make conversations stronger and more memorable
  • How warmth and competence can work together in professional networking
  • How to make useful introductions that create value for other people
  • How to use Tyson’s 3-3-3 Challenge at your next event

Timestamps 
  • 00:00  Why meeting people is not the same as building relationships
  • 03:18  Walk into the room with intention, not a transaction
  • 08:03  Stop proving you are smart and start showing interest
  • 12:18  Ask better questions and stay with the answer
  • 20:50  Find uncommon commonalities that people remember
  • 23:38  Become a connector and make useful introductions
  • 26:55  Follow up in a way that continues the relationship
  • 31:57  The 3-3-3 Networking Challenge

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Maximum Lawyer helps law firm owners build businesses, not jobs.


Resources:

Creators and Guests

Host
Tyson Mutrux
Tyson is the founder of Mutrux Firm Injury Lawyers and the co-founder of Maximum Lawyer.

What is Maximum Lawyer?

Maximum Lawyer is the podcast for law firm owners who want to scale with intention and build a business that works for their life.

Hosted by Tyson Mutrux, each weekly episode features candid conversations with law firm owners, business experts, and industry leaders sharing real strategies and lessons learned in the trenches.

If you're ready to grow your firm with less stress and more support, this is your next must listen. Subscribe today.

Tyson Mutrux (00:00)
You go to a conference, you shake 50 people's hands and you exchange their contact information. You add a bunch of people on LinkedIn and then you get home and somebody says, hey, how was the conference? And you're like, you know what? Great. I met a ton of people. But really, who did you actually connect with? Who did you learn something meaningful about? Who would you feel comfortable reaching out to next week that you just met at that conference?
Tyson Mutrux (00:30)
And who has a reason to remember you because meeting people and building relationships, they're not the same thing. Think about that meeting people and building relationships are not the same thing. So welcome back to another episode of maximum lawyer podcast. That's what we're going to talk about today. And.
Tyson Mutrux (00:53)
As this episode comes out, it's MaxLawCon week in Atlanta. And I want to talk about something you can put into practice before you even walk into the room at MaxLawCon. And you can really use this at every, any conference, cause it's not just for MaxLawCon. This applies to your next bar event, your next mastermind that you go to, or the next time you sit down beside somebody, you don't know could be at a soccer game, whatever. But I want to challenge the way that we measure.
Tyson Mutrux (01:23)
networking, which I think networking can kind of have a dirty common connotation to it sometimes or a negative connotation. but you can be incredibly busy at an event without starting a single relationship worth continuing, which is I think a big shame. sometimes you move from conversation to conversation and you tell everyone what you do. You collect everybody's information and you still leave without really knowing any of the people that you just met.
Tyson Mutrux (01:53)
And I would rather you have three conversations you want to continue the next, over the next several years, then have 30 introductions that you barely even remember where next time you actually see that person at the conference, you're like, my gosh, what was that person's name again? my God. And you're kind of jogging your memory. my gosh. What is their name? You're, you're trying to look at their name tag. I think that's Jim or maybe it's John. don't know. and there's really, there's nothing wrong with exchanging contact information. That's not what I'm saying here.
Tyson Mutrux (02:23)
You should have a way to reach out to each other. That's completely fine. But don't confuse having someone's number or their Twitter handle with having a relationship with them. That's not at all what it is. A contact in your phone is not automatically a relationship in your life. So today I want to talk about how to approach the room, how to have better conversations and
Tyson Mutrux (02:49)
Maybe what to do afterwards. And then maybe at the end, I'm going to give you a simple challenge for your next event. but here's the idea I want you to hold onto throughout the entire episode. Your goal isn't to be the most impressive person in the room. Although I know it's, easy to want to try to be that it's to be the person people are glad they met. Okay. I'm going to, I'm going to reread that for you. Okay. Your goal isn't to be the most impressive person in the room.
Tyson Mutrux (03:18)
It's to be the person people are glad they met. So let's start there. Have an intention. Okay. Not just don't have a plan for a transaction before you walk into the room, decide what you're curious about. Not who you need to impress, not who looks like the best referral source. What are you genuinely interested in learning while you're in that?
Tyson Mutrux (03:45)
Vanessa van Edwards, I love Vanessa van Edwards. If I can get her on the show, I'm going to, because she's just amazing. But she recommends going into conversations with an intention rather than just wandering into them without direction. She's got something, the science of people. should really check it out. Vanessa van Edwards is just, when it comes to like relationships and people, she's A plus, amazing. But here's how I'd apply that at a conference for law firm owners.
Tyson Mutrux (04:14)
Think of one thing you're trying to figure out and one thing you could help somebody else understand. Okay, so really you have two things there. So one is you're receiving, one's you're giving. And maybe you're trying to improve intake or maybe you're considering hiring an operations leader. Maybe you want to take a vacation without spending half of it answering questions from your team. And I talk about that in my book, Founder Optional. So you might want to pick that up if you don't have it already.
Tyson Mutrux (04:41)
but I talked about how you can maybe do that. So you're not worrying about, the work whenever you should be working out, thinking about your vacation. Anyways, I digress. but those are some, maybe some useful starting points, improving intake or, hiring and operations later. Those are, those are, those are our starting points here, but there's a difference between having a purpose and turning every person you meet into a potential transaction. Cause that's how a lot of times it turns out.
Tyson Mutrux (05:09)
One of my least favorite parts about going to a conference is that interaction where the person wants to talk to me just to say hello and get my contact information. it's like, but like you have no real intention to want to know anything about me. You have no real intention to like, build a relationship. You're just there just to meet the next person. I think it's kind of, those people are pretty obvious. You might be one of those people listening. Hopefully you're not, but if you're not, you know the people that I'm talking about. But like,
Tyson Mutrux (05:39)
I'd love to learn how another handle this problem, insert problem. That's, that's an intention. I need to figure out whether this person is worth my time is something completely else. Okay. don't walk around sorting everyone into, that's a potential referral source. That's a vendor. that, that person might help me with this. No, that's not really useful. Talk to somebody outside your practice area. Sit beside an owner whose firm looks like nothing like yours.
Tyson Mutrux (06:08)
Leave room for a conversation that has no obvious business value. You can have professional goals without reducing people to their ability to help you achieve them. Okay. And that applies to helping people too. We hear help first all the time, right? Don't be a taker, be a giver kind of a thing. And I like that idea, but helping first shouldn't secretly mean helping so somebody owes you. Okay.
Tyson Mutrux (06:36)
the whole reciprocity principle, it's a very powerful principle, but don't go with that intention. Okay. send the resource because it might help them, right? When you're talking to them, Hey, I'll send you this, send that to them because it might help them, make the introduction that they might need because it makes sense, or maybe because it feels good. Sometimes doing that. remember back whenever I did big brothers, big sisters, and I told, I told the, the, director of it, she was, she interviews every person. She was asking.
Tyson Mutrux (07:05)
Well, what, are the reasons you want to do this? And one of the, was just one of the honest answers was I kind of part of this, I want to be able to make it, it makes me feel good to help. And she's like, yeah, that's completely fine. And so if that's one of the intentions, fine, if it helps you, if he makes you feel good helping someone great, do it. That's nothing wrong with that, but don't attach an invisible invoice to it. Okay. Don't don't intend to collect on that at some other point, right? Do it because it feels good or do it because they need the help. Okay.
Tyson Mutrux (07:34)
You can be intentional without being transactional. Know what you're curious about, but don't decide in advance what everybody is worth. Okay. That's not, that's not helpful at all. Now, once you're in that conversation, there's another temptation to watch for, and that's the urge to prove yourself. Okay. Stop proving you're smart because you've shown you're interested. Okay. That's a big, big problem. It is also, there's a lot of sites around this that it actually doesn't help.
Tyson Mutrux (08:03)
It actually, it actually makes you look bad. So don't try to prove yourself. You want to really ask a lot of questions, but you might be proving you're smart before you're given people, giving people a reason to start talking to you. Okay. Just remember that. So they may already think that you're smart. Okay. And I'm not, I'm not part of this too, is like, there's this view that lawyers are inherently unlikeable and I hate that because I actually don't think that's true.
Tyson Mutrux (08:31)
But I think sometimes that we can fall into that trap that we kind of think that's with like prove ourselves. And especially when we're in a room of a bunch of other attorneys where we're like trying to, my gosh, I settled this big case or my systems are amazing over here. And it's really easy to turn a conversation to some sort of like resume recital, which is so boring. No one wants to hear that. You're talking about how long you've practiced.
Tyson Mutrux (08:57)
how many people work at your firm, the results you have, your revenues, your credentials, your awards, all that, right? There's nothing wrong with being proud of those things. That's not at all what I'm saying. There's nothing wrong with discussing them when they're relevant. But pay attention to what you're doing with the conversation. They mentioned their firm and you explain how much bigger is this. Okay. They share a challenge and you tell them you saw that years ago.
Tyson Mutrux (09:25)
They share a win and then you share a bigger one. You're just one upping them at every, at every opportunity. And at some point you're not really getting to know each other. You're just taking turns trying to establish your position, which is just blah, you know, blah, no one likes those conversations. No one leaves that conversation with a good taste in their mouth. And, back to Vanessa Van Edwards, she talks about how warmth and competence.
Tyson Mutrux (09:53)
She talks about those in her book, Hughes, and those are also like central dimensions. She talks about in research on how people form impressions of each other. Okay. Warmth, okay. Warmth and competence. And so here's how I think about that in a conversation. Warmth says, I'm interested in you. I mean, well, competence says, I know what I'm doing. Okay. You don't need to choose between those two as you're having the conversation.
Tyson Mutrux (10:21)
you can be capable and approachable at the exact same time. So let me give you an example. So imagine somebody tells you they're really struggling with intake. And one response would be, we figured that out a long time ago. Our intake system is incredible. Another response could be, we worked on that too. The handoff was the difficult part for us. Where is it breaking down for you? So the second response.
Tyson Mutrux (10:49)
It's, still communicates experience to them. Right? So it shows that you're competent. You're not hiding what you know, but you're making your experience relevant to the person in front of you. Okay. And you're leaving room for them to talk. Okay. Before you offer advice, understand the problem before you tell your story, finish listening to theirs. Cause just because they gave you that little simp, it doesn't mean you know everything about their situation and.
Tyson Mutrux (11:18)
Here's another thing too. this bothers me to no end. Please put your phone away, put your phone away. Don't make somebody compete with your notifications as they're popping up. And even if you're not looking at your notifications, if there's notifications popping up on their phone, they might see those too. It's so distracting. So don't spend their answer looking over their shoulder. Okay. Don't, for someone more important. Okay. So as you're talking to each other, so you put your phone away, but also like, don't be like looking over their shoulder and be like,
Tyson Mutrux (11:48)
who else is out here? I just, why even be engaged in that conversation? So don't make people compete with the room for your attention. Okay. Which brings us to the questions you ask. Okay. Because you don't need an amazing opening line. You need to care about the answer. Okay. Ask better questions and then stay with the answer. Okay. You've probably heard people say, stop asking. What do you do? Okay. I'm hopefully you've heard that by that.
Tyson Mutrux (12:18)
I know I've heard that lot. all over. It's all over when it comes to any sort of social media platform. All these tips about having conversations and what you should and shouldn't ask when comes to small talk. least maybe that's just my feed. But what do you do is a common one you should not be asking. And I understand the point, but we don't need to make people nervous about introducing themselves either. What do you do is completely fine.
Tyson Mutrux (12:48)
What kind of law do you practice is completely fine. Okay. but, but, so if you have to start with that, that's fine. The problem is stopping at the job title. Okay. or hearing the answer and immediately using it as your opportunity to talk about yourself, try given giving the person a little more room. So something like, Hey, Hey, so what brought you here to the conference or what brought you here to this mastermind?
Tyson Mutrux (13:15)
that can lead to a conversation about something that they're trying to learn, a problem they're walking through or trying to work through or somebody they wanted to see. Okay. What are you excited about right now? I like that question a lot. I really do like that question about like what, or what are you working on right now that really excites you? I like that one. That's a alternate version of that. And that leaves room for work, but it also gives room for life outside of work. So, or
Tyson Mutrux (13:44)
What are you trying to figure out at your firm? What are you trying to figure out at your firm? That's a hard one to say, but that gives permission to talk about something that's maybe unfinished. They don't have to deliver a polished success story. that's sometimes one of those things that we have this desire, I want to, at least I do, I know I do. I like to put up these walls around me and everything's got to look perfect. that's tough, right? That's one of the things that's not life, that's not realistic and not everything's perfect.
Tyson Mutrux (14:13)
So you do give them an opportunity. What are you trying to figure out at your firm or what's what's not working at your firm right now that you need some help with those types of questions. So but but pick one. You don't need to run through all three of these like it's an intake questionnaire. You don't. When once you've done that do the part that matters most. OK. Stay with the answer. Stay in there. There's this 2017 study led by a person named.
Tyson Mutrux (14:40)
Karen Huang that found the people who asked more questions, particularly follow-up questions were better liked by their conversation partners. Remember earlier how I talked about how, you know, the more like you try to recite your resume and prove yourself, the less people like, tend to like you. So this is how you people like you. Okay. You ask questions, you ask more questions. And what they did is the researchers, connected that with the responsiveness.
Tyson Mutrux (15:07)
So whether the other person felt listened to and understood, it's really what it comes down to. And like these were get acquainted conversations and speed dating interactions, which I think is really kind of interesting. And it wasn't really necessarily a study of lawyer referrals and things like that, but yeah, or lawyer introductions. But I do think it's interesting because it's like these, these very quick interactions and the more people ask them questions, the more the people like them. I joined those kind of interesting. So.
Tyson Mutrux (15:36)
I'm not asking you to, three questions. It's going to produce you a new case. It's not going to get you all the answers, but like my takeaway is simpler. It's your next question should show that you heard the last answer. Okay. It's that simple. Just show that your last, that your next question that you heard the last answer, you stay in there, you stay in there with that answer and you ask a question that was relevant to whatever they told you. So, so imagine this another owner, say.
Tyson Mutrux (16:05)
We finally hired an operations manager. you could say, nice. How many employees do you have? Okay. Nothing. There's nothing terrible about that, but essentially what you've done is you've moved past the interesting part in my opinion, in my opinion. try this a little, a little bit, a little bit different. Okay. What finally convinced you it was time. Right. So you're, you stayed in there with you. So you're, how many employees do you have? It's related. Cause I know what you're, I know where you're going with that. Okay.
Tyson Mutrux (16:35)
Operations manager, so you're you've gotten big enough. So you must have enough employees. That's kind of where you're going. That's where you're going It's not necessarily where they were going if you go where they were going you want to stay with okay Well, what convinced you to it was time to hire an operations manager. Okay, and they might say well, you know I was tired of every decision really coming through me and Now you really have somewhere to go with the conversation What have you actually been able to let go of which is I think that's a great thing. So you just hired the operations manager
Tyson Mutrux (17:04)
What's something, what's some instant results that you've already gotten from this? think that's an interesting way to take the conversation. And that's a conversation about leadership or it's about control or it's about trust or what that person wants their life to look like, right? That's something completely different than where you were taking it when it comes to number of employees, which that's a conversation kind of going towards a dead end.
Tyson Mutrux (17:31)
You got there by following something that they offered rather than moving to the next question on your list. And so this is, this can be described as looking for conversation sparks and, threading a conversation by, picking up details. Someone mentions and explores and exploring them further. And I do this when it comes to like depositions. love, I love taking depositions. love cross-examining people because I love, I call them.
Tyson Mutrux (18:00)
you know, put, they put lures in the water, right? So every time they drop something that's not necessarily what I asked them. So they're giving you additional information. It's just another lure in the water that I get to go attack, right? It's, I love it. I absolutely love it. Same thing. It's just threading. It's all, it's all it is threading or conversation sparks. It's the same thing when it comes to conversation, you get to explore all these different things. I, and I think if you take the conversation that way, I think you'll enjoy it a lot more too. It gives you sort of a challenge.
Tyson Mutrux (18:28)
And so, and then what do you do is you're essentially watching for the topic that they want to elaborate on, which I think is, I think it's a lot of fun. You're kind of discovering what they're looking for. And so maybe you're talking about their firm and they mentioned that the new hire means that they finally get to coach their daughter's team. That's awesome. That's incredible. Or you could even ask about, coaching, right? Cause you could keep asking about the hire or you could, you could start asking them about coaching. So now you can go into the personal stuff. It doesn't have to stay in the professional side.
Tyson Mutrux (18:58)
but the person just gave you another lure, another door that you can, you can walk through into their life and you don't have to ignore it because it's, just, you know, it's, it isn't on the conference agenda. Right. and don't be in such a hurry to contribute your own story that you miss theirs. Okay. If they're into this conversation too, then they're probably going to be exploring yours as well. Right. I'm not saying this should be a one-sided conversation. That's not what I'm saying at all, but.
Tyson Mutrux (19:25)
If you are interested in their story and they're interested in your story, this will naturally sort of go back and forth and the conversation will evolve. and so just not like there's a difference between listening and waiting your turn. Okay. If you're listening, then you are engaging your sort of a tennis match back and forth and back and forth. And you're actually engaged with each other. Okay. you're not just waiting your turn. And this doesn't mean that you should just sit there asking questions forever. Okay. Without sharing anything about yourself.
Tyson Mutrux (19:53)
it's not, it's not a deposition, even though I use that as an example, it's not a deposition. you don't need to control the witness. let the conversation go back and forth and let it be a mutual conversation. like share something relevant when it's relevant. Okay. So if something comes up and is relevant, share it, give them something to ask you about too. Okay. Put your lures in the water as well. and, and the goal isn't always to talk the least, although I do try to go into a challenge with some of these conversations where.
Tyson Mutrux (20:22)
I'll try to talk the least. I just find these things fun. think, I think it's interesting to try to have these little challenges, but the goal is to stop making every exchange about you. Okay. When you do that, you start finding connections that are more interesting than the fact that you both have law degrees. Which the vast majority of people at Max LawCon will have law degrees. Shocker, right? Big shocker. But what you want to really do is you want to find the connection.
Tyson Mutrux (20:50)
Like we're both lawyers can get a conversation started. That can happen. I was at a soccer, my son's soccer game and one of the players, grandpa's was at the game and he's a lawyer. He's a retired lawyer and his daughter introduced us and we started chatting and that led to like a 50 minute conversation. That does happen. Okay. That does happen. But it doesn't have to be the most interesting thing that you have in common. Cause we were talking about a lot of things. Really interesting.
Tyson Mutrux (21:17)
conversations came from that conversation. You want to look for those uncommon commonalities. That's something that Van Edwards talks about. And that's those shared interests or experiences that are more distinctive than the obvious things that you share. So think about that difference. We both have kids. Okay, great. That's something a lot of people will have in common at MaxLawCon.
Tyson Mutrux (21:44)
We both coach youth soccer and are trying not to run our firms from the sideline, right? Now there's something that's something you can talk about, right? That's a little bit more interesting. We both own law firms, right? Great. Okay. That's very similar. We're both lawyers. We both hired someone to run operations and we're struggling not to step in and override that person. That's a conversation. That's more interesting. And for me, that connection might be aviation.
Tyson Mutrux (22:14)
It might be jujitsu. It might be coaching soccer or talking about how to build a law firm that doesn't require the owner to make every decision. Those are all parts of my life. There's small, small parts of my life. I don't have to invent some interesting personality for a conference. don't. And neither do you. That's what's great about this. You have your own life. You have your own interest. share a piece of yourself when it fits, but the other person do the same thing, but don't turn this into a hunt for someone.
Tyson Mutrux (22:43)
who is exactly like you, because that person doesn't exist. Shocker, sorry, they don't exist. You don't need matching hobbies to connect. You don't need matching practice areas to connect. You can be genuinely curious in something that you've never done before. And someone can tell you about their interests and you can say, I don't know anything about that. How did you get into that? That's perfectly good conversation. That's fine. There's nothing wrong with that.
Tyson Mutrux (23:11)
You don't have to be alike. You don't have to, you know, have the same labels. You can get past the labels. Okay. And once you start learning the details about them, you can do something useful with those details. You can help find, you can help people find each other as well. You can help each other out when it comes to their problems. You can help solve problems for each other. Maybe you can refer each other cases. You can get all to all those things once you know some of the details, but make
Tyson Mutrux (23:38)
Here's another part of this too, is make introductions that actually help. You don't have to be the expert on everything to be valuable in a room. And that applies especially to masterminds. A lot of times people, they're afraid to go to a mastermind just because they feel like they're not an expert. And that's just, you don't have to be an expert on anything really to be valuable in a room. Sometimes you just need to notice who should be having a conversation.
Tyson Mutrux (24:07)
You can be connector. Connectors are really powerful. The most powerful people in the world are connectors. And, so maybe one law firm owner tells you about a problem with intake later. Another owner explains how they rebuilt that exact process. Wow. We'll talk about an opportunity, right? and you can connect those people and, don't just put them beside each other and say, you two should meet. Okay. I actually talked to them and tell them why, Hey, Sarah, this is John, John, he just.
Tyson Mutrux (24:36)
rebuilt that handoff between intake and the legal team. And, John, Sarah's working through that exact same transition right now. You had both mentioned that handoff, not generating more leads and how that was the difficult part. Right. So now, now they have names, they have context and they have something to discuss. So you didn't solve the problem. You helped start a conversation that can be extremely useful.
Tyson Mutrux (25:03)
and do this and do this and do it respectfully, right? Check that people are open to the connection. Don't, don't just volunteer somebody for free consulting. I've seen that. That's not the greatest thing. don't share private information that you don't think they want you to know, or them to know. Don't promise expertise that you haven't verified. Okay. That, can get you in trouble. Okay. as someone that I've recommended people on the show before, and maybe I shouldn't have, so I've gotten better over the years about.
Tyson Mutrux (25:33)
about doing that. so same goes for you, right? You don't want to recommend someone that you have not verified that they have that expertise. But like an introduction can start with, hey, I met another owner working on the same issue. you be open to meeting with that person? So really something simple. And it doesn't only apply to business problems. So I know we go to these conferences and we think it's all about business and it mostly is, but.
Tyson Mutrux (25:59)
Maybe someone is attending for the first time and doesn't really know anyone. Introduce them to a few different people and invite them into the conversation. Take them out to dinner. Give them a place to start. And for those of you who already know a lot of people at MaxLawCon, this is something I especially want you to think about. Enjoy seeing your friends. Absolutely. I can't wait to see lots and lots of my friends, but don't spend, please don't spend the entire event.
Tyson Mutrux (26:27)
inside the same circle, help somebody else stop feeling like the new person if you can. Help welcome people into the tent. It's a big tent. You don't need to turn that into a performance or make sure somebody notices you being helpful. Just make room for it if you don't mind. And then when the conference is over, the event is over, follow through, okay? Because a good introduction or a good conversation, it's the beginning, right?
Tyson Mutrux (26:55)
It's not the whole relationship. You want to build a relationship out of this. So make the follow-up a continuation, not a reset. So, Hey, great meeting you. Let's stay in touch. That's very polite, but it doesn't give the person much to work with. What are they supposed to say? Right. great meeting you too. now you've both agreed that was great. Where does the conversation actually go from there? So try making the follow-up very specific. So.
Tyson Mutrux (27:25)
Reference something that you actually discussed. Deliver what you promised. Give them an easy opening to respond without making them do all the work. Okay, so something like, hey, Sarah, I enjoyed our conversation about the gap between intake and the legal team. Here's the checklist I mentioned. The section on ownership is the part we were discussing. Or, hey, John, you mentioned walking, wanting to talk with someone who recently hired an operations leader.
Tyson Mutrux (27:52)
I checked with Sarah and she's open to connecting. Would that still be useful? Or maybe the conversation wasn't about work. Hey, good talking with you about coaching. Hope the tournament this weekend goes well. Those messages have a reason to exist. Okay. They connect to something that happened between you. Okay. And here's a useful test for you. Could you send that exact message to anyone at the event? When the answer is yes, make it more specific. Okay. So.
Tyson Mutrux (28:21)
Could you send that exact message to anyone at the event? If the answer is yes, make it more specific. My suggestion is to, send that first message within a day or two. Okay. And while that conversation is still fresh and you don't have to elaborate on it. Okay. And before you leave the event, make a brief note about what you discussed and anything you promised to do. So I liked it in my notes. keep notes on a lot of people.
Tyson Mutrux (28:47)
And so I like to keep notes on them. can put in your CRM, you can put it in your Apple notes, you can put it in the contact on your phone, whatever it may be, but keep it simple, be nice. Remember, you're remembering a conversation, not building a dossier. Although I've got a lot of information, a lot of you, just as a reminder. So then do what you said you'd do. So send the article if you said you're going to make that introduction. If you said you were going to share the resource, remembering a detail shows attention that you paid attention. So
Tyson Mutrux (29:16)
Keeping a promise shows that you're reliable, shows reliability. So neither replaces being good at your work, but both give the relationship somewhere to go. And the next conversation doesn't have to be a request. You can actually ask about the hire that was starting, the project that they were launching. You can ask about the thing that they were looking forward to. You don't need a drip campaign disguised as a friendship. All you need is a genuine reason to reconnect.
Tyson Mutrux (29:45)
This makes me think about something from my own life. I took some time away from jiu-jitsu and when I wasn't going, Fabio, our professor, and the people there, actually check in with me. I actually got a text message from them yesterday. And when they saw me, they encouraged me to keep coming back, right? What stood out to me was that they noticed, right? They remembered me. They made it clear that I was welcome there, that I was welcome back. And that's the part I want us to bring into our relationship.
Tyson Mutrux (30:14)
Okay. Not making people feel obligated, not trying to create guilt, but just paying enough attention that they know they matter beyond the moment that they're standing in front of you. And sometimes the thing that gets in the way of following up isn't a lack of attention. It's that you're second guessing the conversation. And so maybe you're replaying one awkward sentence or maybe you think you talk too much. Maybe you're assuming the other person was just being polite.
Tyson Mutrux (30:43)
and there's research on this. love talking about research and there's, and it's something called the, liking gap. And it's, it's where they found that people often underestimated how much their conversation partners like them and enjoyed their company. So they observed that across several different types of settings, right. including people getting acquainted in a lab, right. and a workshop and among, different college dorm mates. Right. and so that, think it's.
Tyson Mutrux (31:12)
really interesting how they really underestimate how much they're there. There are other people on the other side of the conversation like them, which is wild to me. and it doesn't mean that every conversation went perfectly. It doesn't mean that everyone wants to become your best friend. but it, but don't treat your own harshest interpretation as an established fact. So just go ahead and send that thoughtful message that you were going to send, give the person room to respond.
Tyson Mutrux (31:39)
and respect it when the interest isn't mutual. If it's not, okay, whatever. And don't expect some sort of immediate return on the interaction. So the first conversation introduces you, the second one, it gives you a chance to know each other a little bit better. And then you build from there. And then you let the relationship develop.
Tyson Mutrux (31:57)
Okay, so let's make this a little bit more practical. At MaxLawCon or the next event you attend, I want you to try the 333 Challenge. Have three real conversations, learn three memorable things about people, and make three useful introductions. That's it. So first, the three real conversations. Stay long enough to get beyond the introduction.
Tyson Mutrux (32:26)
ask your follow-up questions, share something genuine and find a topic that you both want to explore. You don't need to turn each other in this into an hour long conversation. Just give it enough attention to become something more than just an exchange of job titles. And then second, learn three memorable things about these people. One meaningful detail about each of those three people is enough. That's it. So something that they care about.
Tyson Mutrux (32:55)
something that they're building, something they're trying to figure out, not something you can use against them later, not something you need to force them to disclose, something they choose to share that helps you know them just a little bit better. And then three, make three useful introductions. So connect people for a clear reason, okay? And explain that reason to them. Give them a place to start. So don't force a bad introduction just to hit the number.
Tyson Mutrux (33:24)
Okay, don't do that. This challenge, a three, three, three challenge is supposed to help you pay attention. It's not some new way to collect contacts. It's not what this is. If you have two great conversations instead of three, you haven't failed. Okay. You, if you make three introductions, nobody wanted, you haven't, you haven't succeeded. Okay. And if you're showing up alone and three conversations, feel intimidating, start with just one. Okay.
Tyson Mutrux (33:53)
You don't need to become the loudest person in the room to do this. Okay. just do these three things, three, three, three, very easy, three introductions with the people. I those three meaningful conversations, learn three facts, right? Make three introductions, really simple. And then afterward, make sure you follow up. Okay. Remember send that resource. If you promise, promise something, make that introduction you all you offered, and then continue that conversation. So here's what I hope you take away from this.
Tyson Mutrux (34:22)
Be curious, okay? Be curious instead of performative. You don't need to spend the entire event proving that you belong there. Be useful without keeping score. So help because the help makes sense, not because you're building a list of people who owe you. And follow through. Don't let a conversation you enjoy disappear because neither person took the next small step. When you talk, when you walk into your next event,
Tyson Mutrux (34:50)
You don't need a perfect elevator pitch. Hopefully this is MaxLawCon that you're walking into. You don't need to meet everybody. You don't need to turn every conversation into a business opportunity. Pay attention to the person that is directly in front of you. Ask the next question. And when you say you'll do something afterwards, do it. And when you need to introduce someone, introduce those people to each other for the right reasons. So.
Tyson Mutrux (35:17)
Three real conversations, three memorable things, three useful introductions. Remember, your goal isn't to be the most impressive person in the room, it's to be the person people are glad they met.
Tyson Mutrux (35:30)
Enjoy MaxLawCon. can't wait to see those of you that are coming out. Enjoy your next event and make sure you check out MaximumLawyer.com. Becca's List. And make sure you check out our next events. Go to maxlawevents.com. Thanks everybody.