Chris Marr [00:00:00]:
You've got to get dogged about things. You've got to lean into your own expertise. You've got to know that you've got value to bring to the world. Got to make those asks. You've got to be your own champion, right? You've got to champion yourself.
Nick Bennett [00:00:17]:
Hey, listener. Welcome to 1000 Routes. I'm your host, Nick Bennett. In each episode, we explore the uncommon paths of solopreneurs who have bet on themselves and the reality of what it takes to build a business that serves your life. And if you want to change your own route, you can check out Full Stack Solopreneur, our 90 day group coaching program that has helped dozens build clear, compelling offers that you can market and sell with confidence. You can join now at fullstacksolo. Com. That's full stack S o l o dot com.
Chris Marr [00:00:47]:
Enjoy the episode.
Nick Bennett [00:00:50]:
All right, man. So I always like to kick things off with where we first crossed paths because I always think it's. It's an interesting. It helps guide the journey for everyone. You and I first became familiar with each other, or at least I first became familiar with you. You were wrapping up things at content marketing Academy. This was in 2019. You had joined IMPACT at.
Nick Bennett [00:01:12]:
I don't know if you were the first they ask, you answer coach. We brought on but one of them. And then we worked together on a couple different clients. And at some point, early 2023, actually, like fast forward a bit. After working together for a bit, things really started to come together for the Authoritative Coach as a brand and as kind of a program. And you started doing the first newsletters. We worked together on the first, like, season of the podcast, like, in the marketing team. We were working on editing and producing that for you and I.
Nick Bennett [00:01:48]:
I got to see a very early copy of what quickly turned into the book become an Authoritative Coach. So I'm kind of curious, going from entrepreneur, going in house, and then going back to entrepreneur. Walk me through the moment where you decided it was time to move on from IMPACT and take this Authoritative Coach thing to its fullest potential.
Chris Marr [00:02:16]:
Yeah, there's probably a few milestones in there, like, in terms of, like, levels of clarity. I would say the Authoritative Coach started off as a sort of Instagram experiment. I would say, like, I started a new thing on Instagram. It didn't have a logo. It didn't really have anything. Didn't have, like a voice. But then it started to sort of catch its own brand. In fact, when we were designing the book cover, like, that was the moment actually where it started to become a brand because we had to have something, right? And actually the designer was like, you've actually already got a brand because you've done a year's worth of content.
Chris Marr [00:02:50]:
I actually look back and see your voicing. I can see your style. You know, we've captured all of that into there. So it's all happened very organically. Like if we went around the cop back a year and you asked me like, where are you going with this? I'd be like, I'm going to the end of the week with this. Like, I don't know what's after that. And so it was like every week there was something new and then that happened and then this then happened. Because of that happened, it all just started to fit together.
Chris Marr [00:03:14]:
Very organic. I got the beauty of it was like I was in my sandbox with the Authoritative Coach for probably 18 months. Well, a year, I would say a year. And over that year it just became a thing. It became a thing in its own right. And you know, an interesting story about this is like, because like you said, I went from business owner entrepreneur to employee to business owner entrepreneur, right? And I've been through that cycle. It's actually, there's a lot of wisdom come to me over the last 10 years because of this journey I've been through. And I had a conversation with Markus when I started IMPACT and he said to me, look, Chris, you and I both know when it's time for you to move on from IMPACT, we'll just know.
Chris Marr [00:03:55]:
You'll know or I will know. And either way, each of us will come to the table and say, it's time. And so from the very beginning, it was always this idea that I was here to do something. And once that something was done, then it would be time to move on. And so it's kind of like a project, right? We've got this three, four year long project to do something to its natural conclusion and then it's time to move on. And so I share that story just to say that that's exactly what happened. That's the exact conversation. And it was so strange.
Chris Marr [00:04:28]:
I wasn't intending on leaving, but I went away for a weekend, three days. My friend Scott said to me, chris, come over to Ireland, to my house in Cork, where massive country, 150 acre property, this huge like country house. I'll put you up, I'll feed you. You won't have to worry about anything to do with your daily routine. And I'm not, I'm not kidding, Nick. I was there for 30 minutes and I had decided that I'd had to leave IMPACT in order for all the ideas I had to really work. I needed to get that project off my plate so I could take this next. Like I had to drop one cup to pick the other cup up.
Chris Marr [00:05:04]:
And so that day was when it happened. And the next very next week I sat down with Marcus and he was just talking to me about the book and the brand and the friction between IMPACT and the Authoritative Coach and just all this stuff. And I was like, you know what would it be easier? Is it time? Is it time? And he was like, I think it's time. And I said, cool, so how do we handle this? And he says, you do this, I'll do that and that'll be that. And I went, okay. And then I just said, I'll be leaving on this date. And the next thing I know, like, I'm not kidding, like four or five working days later, that was me. So it was like all very organic, but also very much like a four and a half year already known decision that would be made.
Chris Marr [00:05:50]:
It was probably the best setup that you could have really for a job. And leaving a job is like just knowing that at one day that it is going to come to its natural end and not to hang on to that too long and just know that a you're finished with that thing and baby, you've got a new thing to go on to. And I think that was always on my mind, I think maybe even looking back like why the Authoritative Coach was so important to me was to build my next thing. I didn't know that really if I'm honest, but that's ultimately what it became. It could have been an experiment that didn't work, which is we've had many of those, but this one seemed to be meaningful and something to stick to. In fact, I remember speaking to Markus about it when I was just putting the book together and he's like, if you're going to put this out, I want to see you stick to it. Stick with it. Not the book launch, stick with the brand, stick with the thing, see it through, build something with it.
Chris Marr [00:06:42]:
And that sort of lives rent free in my mind as well. It's like I say, I don't know if I've answered your question, but really there was a lot of times even going back to four and a half years ago where it made sense for me to leave IMPACT. We talked about it at the beginning and even the level of maturity of that conversation before you start the job. It's actually really smart in a lot of ways. Like look, you're not going to be here forever. No one's in a job forever. So when does it make sense? What does complete look like? How would we know if we were done, what we came here to do? And is it going to be obvious to us? And we had that conversation. It was so, so good to have that and helpful.
Chris Marr [00:07:17]:
So I managed to maintain my relationship with Markus and we've become great friends. And oftentimes when you leave a job or a business or a business relationship, that relationship tends to go sour and that never happened here. And I'm really proud of that. So yeah, I think there was just lots of levels of clarity in it and the way we set it up and knowing when the job was done and when it was time to move on. And it's interesting because that was like seven or eight weeks ago. Haven't even thought about IMPACT since. I just like been so head strong and focused on what I've got to do that there isn't any time for really thinking about the past, you know, and it's just time to get cracked on and do this thing. So I don't know what's interesting about all of that, but that's really what I would say is like I got to a point where it was time to move on from that, that project.
Nick Bennett [00:08:09]:
Well, I think what I'm hearing is that it's okay not to have it all figured out at any point. Like you went into this arranging with IMPACT and Marcus and it was, we'll know when it's over. We don't have to figure it out, but we're going to figure it out. We're going to know when the project is done. And you got started on this initiative that became the Authoritative Coach not knowing if it was going to go anywhere or if it was going to be done. And it's kind of funny to me to look back and think like of all the programs that we have planned to death that did not work out and the ones that are just iterate, refine, repeat until it gets to a place where it becomes something, it starts to snowball, those become full blown businesses. And being able to go into these things and not have it all figured out and to turn it into something is really more of the lesson to me because I know of a lot of people who are not willing to take that, what feels like a chance or a gamble with their employment or with, with some sort of creative project. Like they'll set out and say, I'm going to build this thing.
Nick Bennett [00:09:25]:
I'm going to call it the Authoritative Coach. And it's going to eventually become a book. It's going to become a coaching service and all these different products and services and you're. And when you're trying to do that, it just probably doesn't happen. And I think the lack of the guardrails you gave yourself was what allowed you to find that voice over the course of 12, 18 months. I remember reading through, you were doing a weekly newsletter for months and I.
Chris Marr [00:09:50]:
Think we looked for like a year, like 40, 40 issues or something like that. Yeah, yeah.
Nick Bennett [00:09:56]:
You, me and John Becker looked at all the newsletters and we looked at each other like, this is a book. Like, Chris, you just wrote the book. And you were like, I wrote the book. It was just like this hilarious light bulb moment that we all had. And like, that was kind of the first version that I remember seeing. I don't remember what month it was. This is early 23. And we're like, this is going to do it.
Nick Bennett [00:10:18]:
And then when I, when I left IMPACT and soon after I left it, you published it, or at least you announced that it was going to be published.
Chris Marr [00:10:27]:
Yeah, August. August 23. Yeah.
Nick Bennett [00:10:30]:
And I was so fired up to see that you took it across the finish line because it's just cool to see how this type of work compiles in morphs. Not a lot of people are willing to figure it out. And I think that's kind of the beauty in this path here.
Chris Marr [00:10:47]:
I feel like I'm still on that. I don't know that I'll ever not be on that path. Like to me, figuring it out is the job. It's like your life is figuring it out. Do you know what I mean? That's it.
Nick Bennett [00:11:00]:
No one has it figured out.
Chris Marr [00:11:02]:
Yeah, it's not that no one has it figured out. It's like you won't have it figured out. Your day to day work is. You're figuring it out. It's like it doesn't end even in my business today. I was just talking to someone this other day. It's like I've got some big vision ideas about where I want this business to be in 12, 18 months, what years. But that does, honestly does not matter right now.
Chris Marr [00:11:20]:
It's like every week is different. Every week is a new set of priorities and objectives based on what was done the week before. And it's like pivot change, experiment, ask, you know, put offers. It's just like constant, like iteration you're right. It's like looking back at the book, it's like a perfect example of, like, the opposite of what Stephen Covey would say. Like, start with the end in mind. It's like, no, no. I've started and figured out what the end is going to be.
Chris Marr [00:11:49]:
And I feel like I'm still doing that. And I love that, Zola. I do. I just love it. I love the idea of, like, what's this really going to be? I have some ideas, but I could really be whatever I want it to be. And I love that, you know.
Nick Bennett [00:12:03]:
So how did you get plugged in with Marcus way back when? Because I think it. Marcus is. It seems like that made a massive impact on your trajectory and your ability to make this leap. So, like, how did you get plugged in with him? And how did that kind of.
Chris Marr [00:12:17]:
He's been like a big. Initially a sort of thought leader to me, technically became a client, and then he became a mentor and then a client in that I hired him to speak at my conferences and things like that. And then he became a friend, and then we became business partners. And so we've worked together for close to 10 years now. And we'll work together for another 20 would be my thought on it. It's like, it's just one of those relationships that remains to be. To grow and strengthen as time goes on, as our ideas grow together. He takes ideas from me, I take ideas from him, and we sort of just like we're two people cut from the same cloth and we challenge each other.
Chris Marr [00:12:55]:
So. But, yeah, I mean, initially started off, I think we're going back to 2012, 2013, literally writing into his show, asking questions about sales and marketing, and him addressing those questions on the show. That's like, literally how it started. And there's probably loads of stories like that over the last 10 years of people who've done pretty much similar thing. But, yeah, I mean, I wrote into a show. He answered my questions. We then had a thread, if you will, and then that became a podcast interview, which became a keynote presentation, which became a workshop, which became something that we built together. You know, it's just like, it just grew and grew from that point.
Chris Marr [00:13:36]:
And I just loved the idea that, like, back in 2012, 2013, like, what was happening in marketing was everybody was like, jump. Gary Vee was just just ramping up at this point. So Crush. It had just been released, and it was about then, somewhere about there, and there was a lot of noise and a lot of, like, just untested marketing guidance coming in and things like that. And I didn't get any of it. Like, I was just wasn't into it. And then when I spoke to a friend of mine, Andy Brown, who I'm still friends with today, he said, look, you should listen to this podcast by this guy, Marcus Sheridan. And as soon as I hooked onto it, I was like, this is the type of marketing person I want to be.
Chris Marr [00:14:18]:
I want to be the type of marketer that can be trusted to provide accurate content that really helps people to make buying decisions. I still feel it now. It's like, why would you not want to be that type of person in the market? And I thought that's what, A, the type of salesperson I can be is the type of person that helps people make the right decision for themselves. And so, B, I was, like, drawn to the fact that I could easily be teaching this to my clients. There's a clear, clear through line to just taking these ideas, because you know what Marcus is like. He really just. Everything's, like, simple. Like, there's no complexity in it.
Chris Marr [00:14:57]:
The complexity is the fact that you have to do the work. But, you know, I just caught my vision, and I felt like this just. This is who I want to be. I want to be known like this, to be that type of marketer and not the person that's sort of pulling the rule over people's eyes and clickbaiting people to death and all of that stuff. I just wanted to take a different path, and I wanted to walk that path. I ultimately ended up walking that path with Marcus. So I think that's where it all started. It just met me at the right time and really sparked something in me that's just like.
Chris Marr [00:15:27]:
That's. That's literally just as who I want to be. I want to be that type of person. And Marcus wasn't all hyperbole, and, you know, he wasn't like that. He wasn't a Gary Vee. He was very much felt like he'd cut his teeth. He's got the proof, and he was teaching something that was actually meaningful and worthwhile. That's what it felt like to me.
Nick Bennett [00:15:46]:
Yeah. I remember the first time I heard Marcus's talk and the whole they ask you answer thing. I read the book, and it was. Everything in marketing was so, like, up here, it was just very abstract. And when he came to the table with here's is a very practical thing, I think you're not the only marketer in the world or person in the world who heard that message and was like, finally. So I think there's definitely something to be said for that. And it was like that was an inspiring thing, especially way back then when there was. It was basically marketing advice was coming from HubSpot and Gary Vee.
Nick Bennett [00:16:21]:
Like there was not nearly as much marketing advice back then. So it was like very. It was still very abstract.
Chris Marr [00:16:27]:
Yeah, I think we ended up having this core group of people. It was like Ann Handley, Marcus Sheridan, Jay Bayer, Joe Polizzi. There's just a group, right? This core group. And yeah, I think you're right. It was exactly the same. It's like, yeah, finally, finally someone's showing like you do these things, you know, it's more about business growth than just marketing. Right. It's like these things are designed the way that they work is to help you get more sales and actually grow your business.
Chris Marr [00:16:54]:
You're not just throwing content out into the wild just because it's fun and exciting and entertaining. It's like, no, no. This content is designed to help your buyers make buying decisions. And that's what I loved about it.
Nick Bennett [00:17:05]:
So let's fast forward a bit. What was your motivation to turn this into a business versus trying to go out and get a coaching job somewhere else or kind of set up shop under another type of company or become a. There's plenty of coaching houses out there that people can kind of hang their tag at, so to speak.
Chris Marr [00:17:26]:
Probably a few different things here. One is the uniqueness of it, I think, which is that the type of coaching I do is very specific to what's actually happening in the client relationship. So how you set up that client relationship and build the right coaching or consulting client relationship with them. I think there's a lot of nuance in there that a lot of people don't really understand or appreciate how to engage a client and have them actually lean into a program instead of push back on it and take your guidance and advice and be take your leadership. How do you set that authority? Like your authority. How do you get that respect and build that trust really quickly out gate, like what's happening in your client sessions in terms of how you're handling difficult conversations and what communication skills you're using and going deep into that, you know, those would be the top three. I would say that like make my coaching somewhat unique because a lot of business coaches are doing strategy, sales and marketing arguably is like the most common one, like how to get 10 more clients, how to make your six figures, all of that stuff. I will probably will be working on my clients with that.
Chris Marr [00:18:30]:
But not. It won't. It's not the lead. It's not the unique place that I. The niche that I'm in. So, number one is feeling like I've got something unique to bring to the marketplace, which is actually, there's just no better feeling than knowing that you're cutting out a place that is different and it can plug in. Even if somebody's got a business coach already, it's like, they're probably not doing this. There's a really good chance that they have not gone as deep or as far into it as I have.
Chris Marr [00:18:58]:
And so I think that's one thing. It's just knowing that I've. I've got my thing finally, the thing that I can call my own, which is just so settling and peaceful to know that. So that's the one thing. The other thing I think is clearly recognizing that financially, there's a better lifestyle for me in building a business than providing a similar service as an employee. There's no two ways to cut it, Nick. You look at your salary, you divide it by the number of days you work, you get a number, and then you realize that actually, I could earn my monthly salary by doing a single workshop. And at some point, I'm not all about the money.
Chris Marr [00:19:44]:
But at some point, you realize that that matters and that your talent isn't and your expertise is perhaps not being financially rewarded in the way that you need it to be now. And so that's a shift, I would argue, as well. And then the big question is, when I look at your calendar, are you all in on this thing? Because if you're not, you either you put, why? Why aren't you? Because you're not confident about it, because you're scared. Yada, yada, yada. And it's like, okay, I hear you. I've got something. Got the book dabbled a little bit. Are you going to take it seriously? When? Now? Okay.
Chris Marr [00:20:27]:
And that depth, like, going right into the depths of that. I think a lot about David Baker when I talk about this sort of stuff, it's like just a big snowball. It's just getting bigger and bigger as it rolls down the hill. And, like, getting the private clients really properly testing my frameworks, like, hard testing everything, getting lots of feedback from the marketplace, getting lots of market acceptance as well, can build the confidence, too. And just going at it, Nick, like, that would be, I'd say, just getting right into it, right, right into the thick of it. Like, I know there's more books there's more books and it's sort of back to what we've already said, but the books are at the end of this other chunk of work that I need to do, you know, so if there's going to be more books and more insights and more expertise to share, that got to get to work. And so a big part of my plan was 8% of my time head down coaching, 20% of my time business development, selling. And it's like I have to get busy now coaching the right types of clients that are going to implement my frameworks, get results, I can share those stories and then I can start to build and build and build.
Chris Marr [00:21:34]:
And so I'd say like, those are the things that come to mind in terms of like taking it seriously and deciding to do the thing.
Nick Bennett [00:21:41]:
So how did you end up acquiring your first clients?
Chris Marr [00:21:45]:
This is a funny, it's an interesting question to me because right now I don't even have a website and oftentimes that would be the first thing that someone would tell you to do. You need a website. It's like, I don't need a website now and I probably don't need one for another three months maybe, because when you run a solo business like this, or you're running a consulting or a coaching business, especially at start, the number one thing is you've got to get cash in the business. So I've made this mistake before. My last business was community membership and live events. Live events cost a lot of money. And so you're spending a lot of money, you never really feel like you've got any cash. So this business is different, it's private client driven so that I can speculate with the other time on other things like courses and programs.
Chris Marr [00:22:27]:
And so I want you to imagine like the private client business ramps up, builds cash in the business. But at some point there's going to be another line that comes up and it's going to be like the robust business, the courses, the programs, the online stuff. And at some point they're going to cross over and the private client business can come down and the robust part of the business can come up. But you could see how a lot of people like me could be distracted with the secondary part of the business first and not the private client parts of the business. And so my job right now is to build cash in the business through private client work and have the ability to speculate with things that are a bit more risky and experiment with those things that they would be the future of the business and will allow Me to hire people and grow. And so the initial part, to tell you all that getting clients was the number one thing, I wrote down a list of 80 people and I contacted every single one of them, individually, personalized, and told them, I've left my job, I'm available for work. It looks like this, and this is the work that I can do with you. Book a call with me so we can talk about it.
Chris Marr [00:23:32]:
And then I got call bookings and then I was on there at the end of the call stick, I would say things like, so, what do you think we can do together? Do you see us working together? And people would say, yeah, that'd be great. And then I would send them a proposal. They clicked the link, they bought the program. It's not sexy. It's not sexy. It's not inbound marketing either. It's literally selling. They've got to sell this thing.
Chris Marr [00:23:55]:
I've got to sell me now. And one of the things I picked up from Noah Kagan's new book, Million Dollar Weekend, it's like, I got to get to the end of this year and say, I made 500 asks this year, 1,000 asks. I was just asking all the time, can you do this? Can you do that? Can you share this? Can you refer me to this? Can you make an introduction for this? Like, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask. Get good at it. And so I just came straight the gate and we had targets were like, I need to get at least two clients paying this amount of money before I leave. IMPACT box ticked. Need to get to this number by this time in order to pay yourself a salary. Cool.
Chris Marr [00:24:30]:
You need to get to this number by this time to make sure you've got three, six months worth of salary in a bank account. Great. You need to get like. So it's just milestones, milestones. Contacting people individually, making sure that the whole world, my world, the world, knew that I had changed and I'm doing something different. And that message was clear enough for people to be like, ah, right, Chris is doing something different now. What is it? How do I keep in touch with them? And even today, like two or three messages. Can I get a call? Can I get a call? Can I get a call? Let's catch up.
Chris Marr [00:25:03]:
You know, there's lots of opportunity out there in the world and I did it. I'm doing it basically through my own network initially, whilst getting the cash in the business allows me to speculate with offers and courses and ads and traffic and email, like, all that stuff speculative, because I can't go to my wife or a stakeholder in my business and say, here's the business plan. I'm going to build these programs and these programs are all going to sell. And they're like, yeah, okay, Chris, sure. Sure they are. But I could go to them and say, I've got these 20 names. They've all paid money with me in the past. They all trust me.
Chris Marr [00:25:41]:
They all like me. Is it possible that five of them could become a client and Kara and other stakeholders could go. I could see that that works. Cool. And so to me, that's like just being a bit smarter about how I build a business. And number one, get cash in the business. It's got to be. It's going to be that way for six months at least.
Chris Marr [00:26:05]:
Because there's so many other things to distract you. Like, I've not been on Instagram for like five, five, six weeks. I've not posted really any, like, what you call content on LinkedIn. It's not going to grow my business right now. It just isn't. This is about selling the thing, getting the clients and getting the cash in the business.
Nick Bennett [00:26:23]:
Number one, Priory, I cannot stress this enough and is that I tell every person, you need to ask for what you want. So many people are afraid to ask. And so I love that the. Your first order of business was find the 80 people and go and ask.
Chris Marr [00:26:43]:
I asked lots of different asks. Could be, you said that you wanted to work with me in the past. Could we be working together, together in the future? Like, if it's somebody that obviously we aren't going to work together. Like, I can see it. I'd be like, who do you know? As they ask. Right. Could you make an introduction? I've got this offer. Here it is.
Chris Marr [00:26:59]:
Who do you know? Like, it's just. Just gotta keep asking. People don't ask. Nobody's asking enough. I can't remember the last time someone asked me to help them get a client. Apart from a client.
Nick Bennett [00:27:09]:
There's a level of pride that people feel that they're on their back foot when they ask. They feel as if you lose a lot of status by asking.
Chris Marr [00:27:18]:
Yeah.
Nick Bennett [00:27:18]:
And it's just simply untrue. I wish I had a better way to say it, but it is just simply untrue. Too many people go into business and tell no one. And it's the difference between you being able to acquire clients to get cash in the business as fast as humanly possible and struggling and burning through your Runway. Yep.
Chris Marr [00:27:40]:
Number one, tell people you've changed. Tell People you got a new certification. Tell people you've got a new program. Let the world know 100%. You know, the best way to flip this round, Nick, is if I'm worried about asking someone for help. It's like, if I came to you and asked you if you could help me, how would you feel about that? You'd want to help me? Of course you would. You wouldn't think I'm an idiot. You wouldn't think that, like, I can't do this on my own.
Chris Marr [00:28:02]:
You'd be like, yeah, I'll help you. Of course I will. How can I. Like, I want to help. I'm so, like, I'm glad you asked, because I wasn't sure how to help you. Like, help me help you. And that's the way I think. I try to do this, like, positive intent with it, which is, like, these 80 people on my list probably want to help me.
Chris Marr [00:28:19]:
How can I make that easy for them and reciprocate always at the end. Right. And what can I do for you? How can I support you? What goes around comes around, and you need help. Now they should feel like they want to come and ask you for help later, you know? And it's funny is what's so interesting to me, Nick, is like, when I started working at IMPACT, a lot of those 80 people went away. They didn't go anywhere. I didn't really go anywhere, but we didn't have the thing in Colin, which was entrepreneurship. And as soon as I came back, all of a sudden was like, we never left each other. And it's like, so glad you're back.
Chris Marr [00:28:54]:
Somebody even mentioned this on LinkedIn. And it's like, he's back. And it's like, I didn't go anywhere. I didn't go anywhere, but I'm back. Like, whatever that means. Do you know what I mean? And it's like, that's perception. People are telling themselves their stories. Is why you've got to really be like, I'm not done telling people.
Chris Marr [00:29:14]:
I've put one really big announcement out that I have changed what I'm doing. Does everybody know? No. Does everybody clear. Even if they saw it? No. So it's like, you've got to keep putting the messages out there and help people see that something's changed.
Nick Bennett [00:29:29]:
Yeah. I wholeheartedly believe in this. In this process. I will say that there's kind of two divides here that I've noticed in my time doing this work. Like my working with other solopreneurs, which is they've built A huge audience and they lack the network. And it's different. Right. You have the ability to go one to one to people.
Nick Bennett [00:29:51]:
You know, network is different than audience in that way. They build a huge audience and they find it very difficult to monetize that audience. And by saying monetize, it's just get those people to become paying customers or paying clients. And that is why I believe you talked about these different revenue streams, active client services versus the passive type of services. And the passive type of revenue, they jump over there because it's easier to try and earn that way, but albeit slower. Now, then there's the other side. When I first went solo, I've very quickly realized my audience strength was rather low and my network strength was also very low. I didn't know very many entrepreneurs.
Nick Bennett [00:30:34]:
My network was largely built based on the vast majority of the work that I did while at IMPACT and.
Chris Marr [00:30:40]:
Right.
Nick Bennett [00:30:40]:
So while those connections were meaningful, it was with other employees and of other companies and not other entrepreneurs and business owners. And so it was a very humbling experience for me to really take stock in these things and figure out, all right, well, where are these clients going to come from? When I realized I needed to ask, I was like, I gotta find people to ask first. And that was just a really humbling experience. And I think jumping into this work, this type of work is easy to wrap your head around, but in practice, like, well, you said posting on LinkedIn is not going to get me more clients. It was the only lever I really had to open up my goal.
Chris Marr [00:31:18]:
Use what you can, right? Yeah, of course.
Nick Bennett [00:31:20]:
It was the primary mechanism I had to start conversations. Right. I consider this as business development. It's like, I need to do some things, make some noise, get people interested in the thing and start some conversations. And it worked for me. But if I had to go back and do it all over again, I would have spent more time trying to understand really the big difference that is, this is just becoming into focus to me now in this conversation between having a strong network and strong audience.
Chris Marr [00:31:49]:
Yep. I couldn't say it better myself. I have learned this the hard way myself as well. I just knew going into this business that a content strategy is not the first step for me. But I think you're hitting on something really important, whether you've got a job or not. Like, your career is built on your network. Like, if you're a job for 10 years and you have done nothing to somewhat create a network outside of that role, then one day when that job goes away, you're going to be left at ground zero with nothing, and you have to work your way up to it. You're going to have to.
Chris Marr [00:32:24]:
You're going to make a choice, so. Or you get another job, whatever. But there's truth in this that regardless, I tried. And because I've been in jobs and built my own businesses, I have this idea that it really doesn't matter about your status. Employee, employer, employee, entrepreneur, whatever it is, it doesn't matter. What is consistent through your whole career will be the expertise that you build and the people you hang around with and who you bring with you. And so I remember, I've always felt like this ever since reading Derek Coburn's Network's Not Working. That book really inspired me to think really differently about your network.
Chris Marr [00:32:58]:
Because if you've got 12 or 15 people that just are that know you well and you know them, and you're all like, whatever business you're doing or whatever job you're in, you're always recommending, you're always introducing each other to other people. You don't have to have a big number. And then I went to Chris Brogan, taught me this, actually a Montreux, which is really a spreadsheet with names, names, numbers, names, numbers and information. Kids names, wife's names, birthdays, you know, all of that stuff. And just like, tried my best to, like, go into that spreadsheet and say, wow, the last time I caught up with Pete was like, nine months ago. I really need to reach out to him and grab a call. And like, being quite deliberate about how you're maintaining a relationship with key individuals that you love spending time with. And you wonder now where that list of 80 names came from.
Chris Marr [00:33:51]:
And it was that spreadsheet. So it's like, you know, there is something truthful about that, Nick, that regardless of where you are in your career, building up that list is. It's not a list. Not a list in mailchimp or HubSpot or whatever. We're talking about a sheet of paper where you've typed the name in and you have some type of relationship with that person that goes beyond just selling them stuff.
Nick Bennett [00:34:19]:
Yeah. Like your contacts list. It's like, who. Who could you call?
Chris Marr [00:34:23]:
It's your, like. Yeah.
Nick Bennett [00:34:26]:
So how many iterations have you gone through of your current service model before you got to something that feels like it's working?
Chris Marr [00:34:36]:
Not many, I would say. I think I'm still trying to figure that out. Back to what we're talking about earlier.
Nick Bennett [00:34:42]:
Service model, I don't think it'll ever be figured out. I just think you've always been a coach at heart. And typically it takes a lot of people to figure out, do I want to be a consultant, do I want to be a coach? Do I want to create kind of my own different type of thing, whatever it is. But then there's the actual mechanism of you showing up every day to do this work with your clients. I've been through a thousand different iterations of what I call my workbook. It's like, how do I interface with clients and how do I do the thing that I do? And it's never done. But it took me quite a bit of time to get to something that I felt is working very well versus I have something and it exists, but now it needs to really deliver. I don't think it will ever be done.
Nick Bennett [00:35:31]:
It's not like I will ever lock it in and say, no more iterations on that thing.
Chris Marr [00:35:35]:
I think you're always learning how to improve it, right?
Nick Bennett [00:35:38]:
Most certainly. I ask because there's this feeling and it's like, this is really the essence of this entire conversation, which is you don't have to have it all figured out. And when. I know when you launched your service, I'm sure that whatever you did day one is very different from what you're doing today and just really normalizing that and making it okay. I've gone through that and I'm curious, just what was that process like for you?
Chris Marr [00:36:04]:
And so I maybe buck a trend here a little bit because the service that I launched is still the service I deliver and it's pretty much the same. But I think what you're saying, though, but because I'd done my iteration, what we haven't told people here is that I actually went part time in my job. 4.20.3 Again, this is like your 1000 roost. Like, everything's painted differently. It's like any job I've ever had, I've never really accepted the way that it was. Like, I remember when I was a young manager, when I was like in my 20s, the job I got was created by me. I was like, here. I wrote the job description for it.
Chris Marr [00:36:37]:
I was like, this is the job that is needed. This is the job I want, and this is how much you're going to pay me. And it's like I did all of that. And so reflecting back on IMPACT as well, there was times where I was just like, I'm going to go do this thing. Oh, no, no, I don't want to work Fridays and Mondays anymore here, have 40% of my salary back. I don't want you to have any command over my time for those two extra days. I'm going to use that now and I'm going to do this other thing. I'm going to write my book, I'm going to do this, I'm going to carry that.
Chris Marr [00:37:01]:
And so that's important because those two extra days, I figured a lot of stuff out over a year. Just imagine what you could do with two extra days, right? It's like there's a lot. And so I was able to figure all that out and launch a service that is actually what I really want to do. And it's dead simple, right? I meet my clients once a month for 90 minutes and in the meantime, they async with me on a platform that I've got specifically for Async coaching called Clarity Flow, an amazing platform, by the way. They send me their sessions, their client sessions that I get to listen to and watch, which gives me a sense of where they are on their journey to becoming an Authoritative Coach. And then on those 90 minute sessions, I do my coaching, bring their calls up on the screen, we look at different segments, we do role plays. Like, I'm in the weeds with my clients on this stuff. And so that to me is like, that is how I work with almost all my clients is in their coaching sessions and then of course teaching them all the different principles and all the different frameworks that I have.
Chris Marr [00:38:05]:
So all my clients have a central place to live on the Internet. So every week I share a new framework with them. So they're all getting my new stuff. And then when I get to actually working with them, we can talk about how they're implementing those things. And then I also have scorecards that they go through to assess their progress around different skill sets as well. I think since starting my business, I've had a very clear idea of what the service needs to look like. And I started off with the small thing, which was get a client, get them to send me their sessions, get them to take a scorecard, get them to see what I can see. And then very quickly they're like, I've never had that feedback before.
Chris Marr [00:38:40]:
No one's ever told me that before. Well, I'd never even thought about recording my sessions and watching them back. Right. It's like very like clients are sort of blown away about like how I can see through all and give them really specific feedback to improve the impact that they make with their clients, which is truly what they want they want to have a greater impact and oftentimes they can't because of, you know, lots of different things. So I would say, Nick, the truth for me is that I started my business with a pretty clear idea of what the service provision was going to be. And what I've been doing is just adding the blocks and as time goes on, to make that service provision more robust. But arguably I had a year to 18 months to figure that out and a lot of that was because I was coaching coaches whilst I was at IMPACT and I got to actually try a bunch of stuff and there was stuff I wasn't able to do at IMPACT that I felt like I should and want to, and I think I've been able to transfer that over into my own business now as well. So, yeah, I think I'm trying to be truthful here.
Chris Marr [00:39:37]:
There's reasons why it was clear to me on the 1st of April this year is because I had done a lot of, like, literally thousands of hours of coaching over the last four or five years, you know.
Nick Bennett [00:39:48]:
Yeah. I mean, it's. It's just the first of april this year is almost inconsequential. It's like it's the birthday of your company, but it's very inconsequential in the grand scheme of things, like.
Chris Marr [00:39:58]:
Absolutely. Right.
Nick Bennett [00:39:59]:
In a lot of journeys, it's. I mean, in my mind included. June 26, 11am, I no longer work at IMPACT. By 2pm that day, I decided, after looking at like three job postings for. With over 2000 applicants each, I said, I now own a business. I'm going to make this work.
Chris Marr [00:40:20]:
That was the same for me. Exactly the same. The day I left IMPACT, like 12 hours later, I had a registered company, private company in the uk. It was just as. Just so immediate. It's like, that's done now onto the next thing. Can't sit. It could take some time, but don't take too much time wallowing on what could have been, you know.
Chris Marr [00:40:40]:
Yeah.
Nick Bennett [00:40:40]:
I think the glide path is what makes it feel so fast. Like the 1st of April was not that long ago, but the fact that you set the conditions for yourself, you created the space in your own life to work a lot of these things out, whereas the majority of people are very binary in that situation. It's like, I no longer work here and I do this in day one, on April 1st, I start figuring it out and you set yourself up to end up on the 1st of April with a mostly baked cake.
Chris Marr [00:41:16]:
The cake was baked and I built a six figure coaching business in April. So like it happened really quickly because.
Nick Bennett [00:41:25]:
Of the, because of the work over.
Chris Marr [00:41:28]:
The last year and I took a holiday in April. I just, honestly it just sounds so incredibly simple. But I just knew that the mission was cash in the business. Like that was the mission. Like in order to get a good start here, there needs to be cash in the business in order to get cash in the business and to get private clients in order to get private clients, yada yada yada. We talked about it and that had to be the like blinkers on focus for the month. And I'm starting to speculate now a little bit this last week or so. Speculate with different things, but only because, and I think even one of my mentors would probably push back on me on this.
Chris Marr [00:42:03]:
But only because I have been able to build cash in the business quickly which allows me that speculation time. So you know, you've got to get dogged about things. You've got to lean into your own expertise. You've got to know that you've got value to bring to the world. Got to make those asks, you've got to be your own champion, right? You've got to champion yourself.
Nick Bennett [00:42:24]:
You got to believe in what you're doing. I think there's some people who are half their backs against the wall. It doesn't feel like they got to choose in the same way that you got to choose. And not that I necessarily did, but I made the choice and I was very convicted in that choice.
Chris Marr [00:42:43]:
Yeah, well this is the thing with life where you learn. I mean, I'm a practicing stoic. Have been for the best part of a decade. And a big part of that was about realizing you don't get to choose what happens. You just get to choose how you respond. And you're probably like, well, okay Chris, it's like, yeah, a white middle aged man over here. It's like, but it's true, like you do just, you realize that you've got to bet on yourself whether it's a job or not. But once you get into mid career though, it's just like I'm in my early 40s now.
Chris Marr [00:43:09]:
You have to deliberately make an effort to build your expertise. It doesn't matter if I was like building a business or not. I'd be going somewhere else to do something. I'm not going to sit on the couch and put on weight. It's like something's going to happen. But it would be stupid idiotic of me to spend five years working for a company and not document my lessons learned and expertise and insights over that period of time so I can build on that for my next part of my career. And I think about this a lot. And, you know, somebody could be doing the same job as me in the same environment for the same length of time and go down a completely different path, and by the end of the five years, have not really grown at all, whereas I have been able to grow massively and create all this stuff.
Chris Marr [00:43:57]:
It's like, it's very deliberate. The whole thing is deliberate. It's like, I want my career to grow. You can't rely on somebody else to do that for you. It's got to be you. And so I think that fuels a lot of the stuff that I do and I don't do it with. This seems to be like a natural thing for me to do. It's like I can't think any differently.
Chris Marr [00:44:15]:
I've got to draw the lesson from everything. That's where the book came from. It's like drawing it out. Every coaching session, every lesson drawn, drawing it out, document it. Journals. I've got all these journals behind me here. Like, I had dozens of them from my time at IMPACT. Everything was documented and it was all purposeful because I knew that was going to be the foundation for whatever happens next, whatever that might be.
Nick Bennett [00:44:39]:
Just hearing this story of even just you writing into Marcus's show and building that relationship, documenting what you've done over the years, it's very obvious how passionate and motivated you are just as a person. But why is this work and specifically this coaching? Because you can take that passion and motivation and channel it any way you want. Why is this work meaningful to you?
Chris Marr [00:45:09]:
You know, my dad took me to a personal development conference when I was, I don't know, 12, 13, 14, something like that. It was me and my little brother at the time. And I think my dad was like, he was the type of person who was like, if I do these things, my sons will see me do these things. And therefore he wasn't. Didn't force it on us. He was just like, turned up like that. I honestly, from a really young age, I think personal development was just a massive part of my life. And the books and the lessons and the tapes and the CDs and all that stuff.
Chris Marr [00:45:44]:
Even when I was, like, selling stuff in my late 20s, I was drawn to it for the professional development aspect of it. It's like, if I could sell this thing, I'm going to learn a lot about sales. Like, I wasn't even bothered about making a lot of money from it. I was just like, if I can do this, I'm going to learn. And so I was always drawn to learning as a place of value for myself. I can go there and learn. I can go to IMPACT for four years and learn. Like, what kind of just like a sponge.
Chris Marr [00:46:10]:
And so I think when it comes to the work that I do, I almost want to encourage and motivate and inspire other people to want to do more with their own professional lives in the business sense anyway. I hope that there's some something there for them personally as well. But the more I work on that, I realize that the work I do does actually impact their whole lives. You know, I've had people message me and say, look, I had this conversation with my husband last night. I would not been able to have that before if it wasn't for you helping me with these skills. And it like, builds people's confidence and competence and they become fearless, you know, in a good way. And so another thing that really used to cause frustration for me when I was younger was I didn't never really felt helpful to people. Not in the way like a plumber or a carpenter is helpful.
Chris Marr [00:46:56]:
Like, they create things. It's like, look, yeah, I could come in and fix your whatever. I was like, I would love to be, like, helpful, like, generally, like, oh, yeah, Chris can help you with that. And as again, as I've grown, that's become more clear. It's like, yeah, let's ask Chris if he can help. Chris can help. And that feels good to have something that people value in terms of being able to help them with something. And so I feel like that's part of it too.
Chris Marr [00:47:20]:
But ultimately, you know, when I think about my clients, it's like they're often stuck with something. There's a mental fog around what they're doing. And I can help them get unstuck and they can, like, bring their potential and their best work. Like, I want to see them do their best work through the work that we do. And so there's something quite empowering about it, I think, like, I want to empower people, but I want to be able to do it in a kind way, a way that really cares about the person. So I think all those things drive me to want to work with people and to want to somehow, like, that's the way that I'm going to make a difference is through these individuals just being able to, like, get over the things that are keeping them small and the things that are telling them that they're not worth it or not valuable or the things that are keeping them playing, like a safe game. And I think the coaching that I do helps people, like, really see through that and to do something that they maybe never even considered that would be possible for them. So I think there's a lot of potential for the people in the work that I do.
Nick Bennett [00:48:22]:
You said you. You wanted to be helpful. You didn't feel like that back then. I'm drawing this through line between that motivation and that feeling to the way that you describe what takes place in your client engagements. Right. And their motivations. Like, they want to be helpful and they want to. They want people to trust in them and come.
Nick Bennett [00:48:46]:
Come to them and those things, they.
Chris Marr [00:48:49]:
Want to have more impact on the world as well. Yeah, it's exactly true. It's exactly right. It's full circle, really. Yeah.
Nick Bennett [00:48:54]:
Why didn't you feel helpful?
Chris Marr [00:48:56]:
Yeah, I think there's. Whether people would say it's right or wrong or not, or like the people close to me would say that that's not true, potentially. I think for a lot of my life, I felt invisible for the wrong reasons. Like, I don't mind feeling invisible now. I don't mind being the person behind the curtain. Like, I'm not looking for a pat on the back. I delay gratification until I die. Like, I've worked that muscle into something, something truly positive, like something that keeps me on track.
Chris Marr [00:49:21]:
But I think for a lot of my life, I felt like I was in the way, which kept me quiet and unseen and unrecognized. And I had a bit of quite a busy childhood, like lots of brothers running around. And I think even at school, I felt somewhat unseen and invisible and sort of meaningless, like there was not much meaning. And then I think I carried that into my early adulthood and never really felt confident that I had something truly meaningful to do. And arguably that all changed when, you know, we Talked about the 2012, 2013 time when I started my own business and started to figure out what that might look like. But I would say that every day that goes by, I'm chipping bits of that off, I would say. But I still talk about it with my therapist even these days. It's like there's a sense of that somewhat stayed with me from childhood.
Chris Marr [00:50:18]:
But, you know, even saying out loud, I can point to times where I never felt like that and did feel recognized as well. But there's something. I don't know what it is, but I think helpful, not feeling helpful, feeling invisible not feeling seen and trying to reparent myself on that. Not that I'm saying it's my parents, but trying to make sure that when I think about my kids and think about Luna and Spencer, especially the wee ones, making sure they feel seen and heard and appreciated and loved, I think is where I probably channel that the most.
Nick Bennett [00:50:47]:
I have the same aspirations and motivations for my own kids. I see a line, the line between this and building Content Marketing Academy that was built on events. I think there's definitely something is becoming a little bit more clear. The events that you put on and you becoming a speaker and all of those things and that how it motivated and shaped the type of business that the businesses that you've built and that you're currently building.
Chris Marr [00:51:18]:
Yeah, it's crazy because I made this big announcement recently. A lot of people sort of came out of the woodwork, you know, like people haven't heard for, for years and like CMA, like 2017, best conference ever. This is six, seven years ago, best conference I've ever been to change the like trajectory of my career. I'm like, what is going on? It's like this is seven years ago, this brand I built and it still sticks with people. It's like there was something special about it. And I think you're right to say that of course the people bring a lot of that energy. But ultimately there was a vision in there of wanting to bring something valuable to people and unfortunately I did it at the expense of myself in the end. But I'm not going to do that this time.
Chris Marr [00:51:59]:
So there's lessons learned there as well. I think live events are absolutely in my future. But when the business is sort of cash very much cash positive and has the ability to do it well and profitably, hopefully.
Nick Bennett [00:52:14]:
So that brings me to the last segment here. What do you want to build that you haven't built yet? And you just talked about events maybe in the future and you had talked a little bit about. There's other books lingering. Where's your head at as you've tried to figure. I know. I also know you just launched a 10 week kind of boot camp thing. So you've got a lot of things in the works. You've got a lot of things in your head.
Nick Bennett [00:52:39]:
What do you truly want to build?
Chris Marr [00:52:41]:
Honestly, Nick, if we speak together again in a year's time, I'm telling you a story about how I absolutely cracked the online coaching business model. That's it. 12 to 18 months from now, I should be telling that story and I'M talking about everything that everybody hates about Internet marketers that I've managed to figure out what it looks like. Webinars, email marketing, ads, leads, driving people into programs that make a difference. And I figured it out by taking what works, but somehow making it work for me. So I think that's the big thing for me is the focus is, like, this vision of finally cracking the online business model. I've played around with a lot of tools and a lot of things over the years, but this time, I'm going to do it. That's what I want to build.
Chris Marr [00:53:32]:
And I think after that, once the business is running, you know, it's running, it's kind of running on its own fuel. I think after that, I'll have some bigger aspirations. But I'd say, like, the closest big thing is this online business model. I'm so excited about it because I think I can do it and I'll be really proud of myself if I do it.
Nick Bennett [00:53:53]:
I'm rooting for you, man. I know you're going to do it.
Chris Marr [00:53:55]:
I hope so. Even if, like, it doesn't work, I'm going to be in a position where I could say it didn't work, but I did everything that I possibly could to make it work.
Nick Bennett [00:54:02]:
It'll fail on my terms.
Chris Marr [00:54:04]:
Exactly. So I know, like you'd said, and we see this all the time, that there's people out there that are half as smart doing twice as well. And it's like your intelligence gets in your own way sometimes. It's like, just look at what people are doing out there. Like, ignore these Internet marketers at your peril. It's like, these guys are doing something. It works. Why would it not work for you? You don't have to do it in the same way, but you could take the model.
Chris Marr [00:54:29]:
So it's like, I'm not reading the books anymore. I'm going back to the books to steal the things. It's like I've got a reference, reference library now. And so, yeah, man, that's my big mission over the next 12 to 18 months.
Nick Bennett [00:54:42]:
I love that, man. I'm rooting for you. I'm excited to catch up on this show in a year.
Chris Marr [00:54:48]:
Absolutely. Cannot do it without people rooting for you. So I really appreciate that.
Nick Bennett [00:54:53]:
Well, all you got to do is ask, man. It's good to see you, man. Thanks for sharing your story and just opening up and talking about the real part of this process that I don't think enough people hear, and I know more people will feel seen because you shared your story.
Chris Marr [00:55:11]:
I hope so. I hope it helps someone. Thanks for having me, man. I really love that.
Nick Bennett [00:55:15]:
Awesome, man. Well, I'm sure we'll catch up soon. Hey, Nick. Again, and thanks for listening. If you've enjoyed this episode, you can sign up for the 1000 Routes newsletter where I process the insights and stories you hear on this show into frameworks and lessons to help you build a new and different future for your own business. You can sign up @ 1000routes.com or check the link in the show notes. What would be your last meal on earth?
Chris Marr [00:55:52]:
The last meal on earth? Yeah, I'm a simple man. I would say like a really nice prepared barbecued steak with some really nice crispy potatoes and some like sweet corn done on the barbecue as well. Like something like that. That's like my favorite meal. And it's still, every time I eat it, it still feels like a treat.
Nick Bennett [00:56:18]:
What cut of steak?
Chris Marr [00:56:20]:
Probably a fillet steak for me. It's pretty simple but like, honestly, it's the best meal.
Nick Bennett [00:56:26]:
A little salt, a little pepper on it.
Chris Marr [00:56:27]:
Yeah, I'm not like a big, I'm not like a big sauce man, you know.
Nick Bennett [00:56:31]:
To what temperature do you cook your steak?
Chris Marr [00:56:33]:
Right. So we in, in the uk, it's like you get the medium rare, rare, medium well done and like a medium rare. So like a little bit, like if you squeezed it a little bit, blood would still come out of the steak. That's where I'm at.
Nick Bennett [00:56:46]:
I'm also a medium rare. Once you get that beyond medium, I'll accept medium. Anything beyond beyond medium, though. Eat chicken.
Chris Marr [00:56:54]:
Yeah, I'm a bit upset if I leave my bar, if I leave the steak on the barbecue for like 15 seconds on, like, I'm always a little bit upset because you've got to work your way through it, you know?
Nick Bennett [00:57:05]:
Yes. It'll work out your job for sure. Thank you. I appreciate that. You and I have a similar, similar last meal. I like that one.
Chris Marr [00:57:12]:
Yeah. But protein, a bit of vegetable, potatoes, some carbs, that's it.
Nick Bennett [00:57:15]:
And you feel good, you feel good after you eat it.
Chris Marr [00:57:18]:
And you're not too heavy, you're not.
Nick Bennett [00:57:19]:
Too weighed down after that one.