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The University of Victoria is home to a handful of hardworking graduate students doing trailblazing work in their field. In this series, CFUV correspondents sit down with UVic graduate students to learn more about the work they do in a conversational setting.
Hello, you're listening to the Beyond the Jargon podcast on CFUV, 101.9 FM. Before we begin, I'd like to acknowledge with respect to the lekwungen speaking peoples on whose traditional territory the university and CFUV stands, and the songhees Esquimalt and Wsanec peoples, whose historical relationships with the land continue to this day, I'm a guest on this land and I'm extremely grateful for the experiences and the life it has given me while I've been here. This is the 10th season the podcast and I'm super excited to be your host. My name is Sam Kaiser, I use he/him pronouns and I'm a masters students studying music technology. In the final semester of my studies, my research is mainly focused on the implications of the growing popularity of immersive audio formats on popular music, because this is the first episode of the season, I'll give any new listeners a little rundown on what we do here and beyond the jargon, welcome back to any previous listeners of the podcast as well super excited to be taking on this project this time around. Beyond the jargon exists to give a platform to graduate students at UVic. So they can discuss their research in an accessible and non formal way. I will be interviewing graduate students from various faculties at different points in their academic careers, asking them about their research topics, their experiences as grad students and what their future plans may be. I'm excited to jump right into it with the first guest this season. Luke Seybold. Luke is a first year Master's student in mechanical engineering and is part of the new interdisciplinary cohort at UVic. coastal climate solutions leaders or ccsl. Luke is also a friend of mine from middle school, and it was a pleasure catching up with him about his work. There. I'm Luke Seybold, mechanical engineering Master's candidate at the University of Victoria, and I'm super excited to be here. Thanks for being here. Since we're in a radio station, would you mind like talking about maybe like music that you enjoy right now? Just a sort of a fun start to this interview? Yeah, for sure. Right now I'm really into like, jazz rap. So some mf doom and like abstract orchestra. That's that's kind of what I'm into right now. It changes from time to time. But that's that's kind of what I'm listening to right now. I don't think I've really ever listened to jazz rap. I listened a little bit of mf doom. But beyond that, I might have to do a little bit more exploring into that as well. Yeah,
I'm doing that myself. And it's been pretty cool. Awesome.
So what brought you to UVic or Victoria and where are you coming from before this? I'm coming from the University of California Berkeley, where I did my undergrad in mechanical engineering. I have lived on the island before during COVID moved to Tofino and was working in a little surf shop there called Live to surf. And that was a really cool experience for the year, then went back to school in California, finished up my undergrad there. And I just loved the island so much. And my my girlfriend goes to goes to school at UVic, they had a great program for mechanical engineering in the ocean sciences as well. So my interest in wave energy conversion, I got in touch with a professor who was actually supervisor for one of my TA is at Berkeley. And so it all just kind of fell into place that I ended up here. And I'm really loving it. Sweet. That's awesome.
You sort of mentioned it briefly like the wave energy conversion stuff, or you're also part of the new cohort at UVic. You want to just sort of mentioned that briefly and just kind of talk about what brought that to your attention. Yeah, for sure.
So I'm part of the first cohort of the coastal climate solutions Leaders Program here at UVic, or ccsl. For short, I was introduced to it by my supervisor, Brad bekam, as something to apply for basically, it's this, this program that brings together people from all different disciplines at UVic, to discuss solutions to the climate issues that we're facing today. Because it is such an interdisciplinary issue. We need experts in fields of engineering, business, law, policy, all these things to be able to come together and make a coordinated effort to slow down and hopefully stop climate change.
So you kind of mentioned that a little bit like where the other students in your cohort are coming from. You mentioned business policy law, how large is your cohort?
I don't I don't know the specific number I'd say about 20. Okay. 20.
And there are spread let me get one or two from each faculty, or would you say there's more of one or the other? I'd say there's, I mean, there's quite a few in engineering, there's probably about three or so mechanical engineers, one or two civil engineers. Not sure if I don't think there's any electrical engineers. But so yeah, engineering makes up a good a good portion of it. Lots of people in environmental sciences as well. A handful from business So as I said, and yeah, so all over the board, for sure, seems to make sense to me, like all of these disciplines could focus on like coastal populations, coastal geography. I think that's kind of just an interesting observation there. Yeah. So that is definitely the focus of the group is coastal climate solutions leaders, we are on the west coast. So that's we're really focused on finding solutions to coastal communities like Victoria where we live, because it is such a wide ranging issue, it would be almost impossible and a very pleased based issue, it'd be almost impossible to to not only focus on all the different impacts of climate change, but also all the different impacts on every single different place in the world. So we're narrowed in in kind of what we know, here and on the west coast of Canada, you know, coastal community. And so that's why we are the coastal climate solutions, leaders.
And just like the boat, how many populations live on the coast and BC, we have like, basically all this side of the island, we have just like the mainland, as well. And there's many considerations I would expect about tsunamis and earthquakes. And just like zones, liquefaction zones, I think they're called, like, where a lot of communities live. Like, I think Richmond is a big one. Yeah, it's different sections of Victoria as well, I think in Esquimalt, as well, it's a huge topic for people living in this area. And I'm sure it's a huge worry for many people who've kind of settled coming from different provinces, different places, because we see a lot of that as well. Right? Yeah, just dialing back a bit. I'm curious about the application procedure for your program. Did you find it difficult? And were there any interesting prerequisites or associate activities that you didn't expect or found? Interesting?
Yeah, I actually really enjoyed the application process here. Ubik, it was quite unique compared to some of the other schools that I applied to, whereas many of the others were kind of maybe essay base. That was probably the majority of what the application process was, was writing essays and answering questions. Whereas here, you Vic, although there wasn't so much of that. And it was mainly just submitting like transcripts and resume where you were able to differentiate yourself as an actual human being and as a person was, by getting in contact with a potential supervisor and, and finding a potential research topic that interested you both in ensuring that you were compatible with them, and you'd be able to work with them. It was an application on a much more personal level where you actually felt like you were talking to someone, and understanding people or even just person that you'd be working with most closely here at UVic. And so I really appreciated that. And that also was definitely a contributing factor to why I came here, I believe it was after I had been accepted to the Masters of Applied Sciences program with Brad buck. I'm in mechanical engineering that he told me about applying to the ccsl program.
So that was, you see, like you mentioned that was after he'd already been accepted?
I believe, I believe so. It either that or it was kind of at the point where it was kind of a given that I was going to be sure coming because the official like, yes, you have been accepted. I don't
sure it was sort of in conjunction with your Yes. Or application to you, Vic. I'm applying for a master's in mechanical engineering. Yeah. But then this is sort of something you tack on.
Yeah, this was something additional where that that one was more kind of I don't want to say essay, I don't exactly remember what the application looks like. But just answering a couple written questions about your research that you're planning to do Ubik because it is a UVic specific program. So talking about how your research applies to climate solutions, coastal climate solutions. And so with my research, likely being in wave energy conversion, it's the perfect blend of this mechanical engineering component. And then also finding renewable energy sources on the coast that can be applied to these coastal communities, for sure, just kind
of going back as well to when when you were talking about speaking to your supervisor before the application or during the application. I remember that too, with my my supervisor as well. And I remember that being different to other applications at different schools. It was good to speak to somebody like speak to the person that you're going to be working with for two years. And also just kind of devise a plan and see if like your right for the program or your your research interests sort of align and it seems like it did with you, which is great. Yeah. And he was able to point you in the direction of this, this new program, this new cohort. Great. So just kind of talking about sort of this first year of your studies and comparing it to your undergraduate degree. How is the work so far and Your program differed from the work you've done in your undergraduate degree. Or maybe it hasn't been deferred. Yeah,
well, I'd say it's still, it's more similar to my undergrad program than it will be for the rest of the time that I'm here. Because I'm the first year is mainly dedicated to coursework. So it is pretty similar to an undergrad curriculum, where you take a couple courses, it is less courses, because there is still a component of it, where you are kind of looking for what you're going to be doing your research. And although you may have some idea, you're still narrowing it down to precisely what it's going to be. So that when you are done with the coursework requirements, you have a pretty good idea of of what you're going to be getting yourself into. And I say requirements, but it has been really cool to kind of pick courses that you feel like will benefit you in your research. It's it's a, it's honestly a little tough to narrow it down to the I mean, you could take as many courses as you want, or the requirement is five, not not super keen to do more than that.
Is that five for your first year or five?
In the first year? Yeah, I think because I took two the first semester taking two this semester, and I have one left, if I'm going to be taking one. And it's kind of limited to whatever courses are offered in the summer, maybe I'll take that extra course next year. And then focus more on more research stuff this summer. It's pretty flexible. The other thing is there's two courses that are associated with the ccsl program, okay, and those actually do count towards my course requirements. So this is an addition to the five, no, this includes is included in the five. So in some ways, that's great, because I don't have to do, I don't have to do any extra work. But at the same time, suddenly you go from being able to pick from five courses that are definitely like specifically dedicated to my research to three, of course, there are applications of those two ccsl courses to my research in figuring out how my research might tie in to sustainability. But at the same time, it's it's not directly focused on the research. So we'll see maybe, maybe I will end up taking more than five courses in order to just kind of gain enough of base knowledge of what I feel like I need to do for my research. But we'll see.
Sweet, so just so I sort of understand this right. So you have to take five courses for your mechanical engineering degree. Yeah. And then there's two courses for the ccsl that you have to take for this coat. Yeah. So that that's included in the can be
included in the five so yeah, okay, so three Mechanical Engineering specific courses, and then two of the ccsl courses.
Yeah, sweet. I mean, that's pretty great that it's so flexible, and you're able to take it across different semesters kind of saved for me to I've five or six courses that I can kind of, they're always offered to. So it's kind of Yeah, that's good flexibility. It's interesting to think about that, because I feel like I don't know, I've never really spoken to many people who've done masters studies and engineering, because I feel like engineering is also one field where unless you're going into something quite specific, like you are, you're able to find a job in some ways, like right out of school, whereas there are lots of degree programs in the arts and the humanities, where it's, I would say it's a little bit more difficult. And also, maybe generally, this might be a generalization, but I noticed that there are more people in the arts humanities who go into the master's programs than those in engineering in the sciences, unless they're going for PhD programs or want to go into like teaching or research, like further research. So it's interesting to see that how similar some of these programs are on the like the structure level as well. So for those ccsl courses, everybody in your cohort has to take them and you all take them at the same time. Yeah,
yeah, we do. And yeah, they're offered in the in the fall. And in the spring, the fall one is the climate solutions, foundations course, which is kind of going through the IPCC report from the UN, which kind of documents the progress of climate change. And we go through that we have guest speakers and we just get a foundational knowledge of climate solutions this semester is the BC Okay, I got a I got a BC for something. It's BC coastal climate challenge, I think is what it is. And I mean, obviously, we're the first cohort so there's only been one, we're going to be helping to design potential communities to as they're renovating, destroying and rebuilding the Ian Stewart complex, which is just across McKenzie From us here,
that's like the sports complex. Yeah, it's
right now it's the sports complex, they're gonna be taking that down. And kind of creating a residential area for people deciding what kind of amenities we want to see there, what kind of sustainable features we can implement there. And I know we're going to be making two different designs. One that's, that's more within the constraints that we have. And that's part of the challenge is learning what these constraints are, because there's no like specific guideline that they're giving to us. And we kind of have to piece it together from all these different jurisdictions and municipalities. But yeah, we have that constraint design. And then we have one where if we were given a little more flexibility, this is what we do, because sometimes there is a bit of flexibility within these constraints. So looking at, okay, well, if we could push this limit by a little bit, what would be the outcome there. So it's gonna be cool to see how those two designs differ. And I believe there's four or five teams or four within us, that makes money like maps. And each of us will be making two of those designs. So a total of like, 20 or 110. designs, and yeah, then not too sure how much they might end up implementing from that for sure. But it'll be cool to have some student input from graduate students across disciplines from UVic into a community that's going to be so close to home with
these groups, like, were they randomly assigned? Or are they assigned by discipline? Yeah, they
were somewhat randomly assigned, were tried. I mean, it sounds like there was a lot of time that went into figuring out how to get people from across disciplines. In each group, then also, because it is master students and PhD students in this program. If I didn't mention, yeah, I'm also having a blend of Masters and PhD students in in each of these. So of course, it's not going to be perfect, where you have one mechanical engineer, one environmental scientist, one person, with, with a business degree in every single team, but for the most part, it has been pretty spread out across the board. And it's super great to, to work with all these all these fields.
Yeah, that's super interesting. It's a really great sounds like a really very practical project for all of you to kind of like, uh, see what you all bring to the table in terms of strategy planning, and actually implementing some of these ideas that you're talking about in your classes? Yeah, I didn't know about the PhD student. That's cool, too. So are they all first year PhD students as well? Or start on entering it in?
No, I think there's a couple who are already pretty well into their into their PhD, or I don't remember exact number of years that everyone's been doing it. But yeah, that is another interesting thing like so because it's not just incoming master's students, or incoming PhD students. Some of my fellow engineers who have already done all their coursework, are now taking these extra courses, too. So yeah, I've heard mixed reviews about about that, like having to take more courses now. But for the most part, it's doesn't seem to be too much of an issue. Totally.
I would assume, like everybody kind of who would tack this on are really interested in applying sort of, or at least going into that kind of career. Commitment. Yeah. And so it's good that there's like a lot of interest, and that they're able to at least, like easily get in and kind of get involved with this program. And also speaking about just the range of people you have entering this program, or being a part of it in some way, like, with PhD students, and with master's students to like, people come from everywhere, after various points of time, right, like various durations, there are people going straight from their undergrad into master's degree, like I'm sure there's a few in your program. And there's people who've probably worked for a few years and then started the master's degree. And if you're a PhD students, and this probably, I don't know, people who've been working for 10 years, and then did a master's degree did a PhD. Like, yeah, it's cool that you're able to bring so many people from different disciplines and with different experience levels into the same space to implement these solutions. And practically as well, which is really cool. Just kind of talking about your cohort a little bit. How is the work of your peers influenced your own research and the work of others in your field? So how do you feel about your research? Or how does your initial idea for what you'd like to go into changed as a result of working with people from different disciplines?
Yeah, that that is interesting. I, well, it's there's a lot of similarities between me and another guy who's, who's doing this ccsl program. His name is also Luke. He has the same supervisor. We're both doing Research in wave energy conversion. Yeah, and we're both in the ccsl program. So it's been good to kind of be able to lean on him and see the different avenues that can take within very similar research, I forget exactly what his research in wave energy conversion pertains to, I will be looking at optimizing a very specific kind of wave energy converter point absorber, that has these that kind of drives these cylinders and seeing how the different lengths of these cylinders can be used to optimize how much energy they generate, based on how big the waves are. Because if if you can imagine, if the cylinders are too short, and you have these big waves, you're they're going to bottom out, and you're not going to be able to generate as much energy. Similarly, if you have these huge cylinders, and these tiny waves, you get the most energy when they're super compressed. And if they're not getting compressed enough by these tiny waves, you're not generating that much energy either. So motor efficiency, yeah, yeah, kind of optimizing all these different variables. And one cool thing that I might try and implement into that is figuring out how we can train machine learning algorithms to get all these data points of wave conditions and cylinder lengths, and combine them all to make predictions about what those optimal lengths are. When and where for
sure. So just so I'm understanding this right to these cylinders that are like sort of floating you choose a point however many meters away from shore at a certain, I guess like high tide, low tide? Also depends. Your so your, your research is trying to determine the optimal point for these cylinders to go when and where and also the size of the cylinders per point. Yeah,
well, it's, it's kind of fixed where these picture them is buoys. Yeah, move up and down. And when they move up and down, they drive these cylinders, these buoys are always in one place. So we're getting wave data for that singular place. We're not thinking about moving them around too much. But we are thinking about, Okay, do we want a fixed cylinder length? That's going to work all years? Is that going to be what's best? Or are we going to be changing this the cylinder lengths how far they can move in order to optimize how much energy that they're they're producing?
So that would require like going out to the boys changing up the cylinder, like this mechanism at certain points of the year?
Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm actually even still a little unclear about how that happens. Like, perhaps can have it just so that the piston is fixed to only go a certain length where you can still have this super long cylinder, but the piston only moves like a certain amount, okay, and then be able to change that setting, or I don't think we have to actually swap out completely different cylinders.
Okay. So it's kind of like tension, I guess, like you're changing the tension of the piston. Probably more like the pressure, the pressure, okay. Yeah, for sure. Because of the wave hits this boy cylinder. Yeah. And the piston hits, or the piston activates, depending on how much how strong the way it is.
It's it's a free moving piston. So the wave actually moves it. Yeah. And, and yeah, so I guess in in the summer months, when there's less storms less way the waves are smaller, it would only be able to move a certain amount, because you get that most energy out of those, those high pressures. But then when you get bigger waves in the winter, with all these big storms, could set it so that the piston can move on much longer length. General, all that energy.
Are there specific locations that your research? I'm sure there are like, where are they? Are they on the island?
They're there. They're nearby. I do not know actually, exactly where it is. Right now. I'm still kind of just learning about all this myself.
To like, choose sites to kind of focus on more specifically as well. Yeah, for sure. But these are local, like, at least in BC kind of thing. Yeah. That's awesome. That sounds really interesting. I think I sort of, I understand it, I guess. And I can see how it's very important to like, have a lot of planning to go into it with this machine learning stuff. And this like, just like trying to figure out what the optimal size, pressure, whatever and like whether or not you do need to switch things out. And then also like, if you do need to switch things out, I'm sure there's a lot of considerations when it comes to like budget. Yeah. And like actually getting people out there to do it. Maybe safety issues too. Like if they're really far out. I'm not sure. Yeah, super interesting. Super interesting stuff. What do you think is a common misconception about your field? That can be in engineering or it can be about sustainability, environmental science, even you want to speak on that like, also, if you can't think of anything? That's a They do. But I just thought it's sort of interesting question. Yeah, it's
funny, we, we talked about this in some of our first ccsl sessions, because we were all coming from all these different fields and kind of wanting to get to know each other and, and what we were doing within our different fields. And I don't know, the first thing that always comes to mind for me, is that all mechanical engineers or, or, or car people, we like, you're the mechanical engineer, what's this sound and having it under the hood of my car, I probably couldn't tell you. Sure. I, we, we work with motors. And we we do all these things. But it's so wide ranging in, in what you can focus on, you can even more focus on smaller, more electronically oriented things, where you're kind of doing a bit of a hybrid between electrical and mechanical engineering, that's kind of called mechatronics, doing a bit of robotic stuff. And then even like, aerospace engineering is kind of an offshoot of mechanical engineering. So I'd say the biggest misconception is that we we got a greasy towel slung over our shoulders, and we're working with motors all the time. And that's kind of the extent of it. But as you can see it, it spans out into sustainability too sure. And having to be able to work and communicate with all these other people in other fields in order to bring the engineering to life totally
just like thinking like every idea, like let's say, like, there's like a new idea for some sort of sustainable power source or whatever, like someone can think of it, but you need a mechanical engineer to actually like, plan it out. And like, see if it'll work or not, like how, what are the systems? What are the mechanisms that we need, in order for this to work and like, in your case, to like, make something optimal, like make something very efficient and reduce costs, reduce labor, everything you need kind of thing? Yeah, I super fair, I guess, I've kind of maybe you also made that assumption to the mechanical engineers or mechanics who could fix my car? Yeah. Just thinking about like sustainability more broadly. Do you think that an interdisciplinary approach is important in approaching these issues? Like, do you think that these sorts of cohorts like you have should be the norm across different universities?
Yeah, in terms of sustainability, 100%. Climate change is not an issue that we can solve with just a bunch of engineers, or with just even a bunch of climate scientists, because there's things that climate change effects that go beyond the scope of their knowledge, even. So, it really takes having these groups of people that can come together and each bring their own unique expertise into finding solutions that will work across the board, there may be the ideal engineering solution to some problem, but it doesn't consider for example, maybe let's say that we have an offshore wind turbine. Great, that's awesome. We're generating all this electricity for coastal community. But did we consider where it's being built the kind of biodiversity there that might be affected? What about the people are there you're going to be super accepting of having maybe these these giant wind farms obstructing their view of the skyline? It's a very interdisciplinary issue that that requires expertise across all these fields. And so yeah, 100% If we are to start having more of these programs across universities, not just at UVic, it's important that there is a balance of all these different experts who can each bring their unique take on the problem to solve it the best it can be.
Yeah, you made a great point there just about like, the implications that a big project might have, you can propose a big wind farm somewhere. And it can sound like a great idea on paper, it will be beneficial in many ways that matter. But then it's right next to like a small community or something like that. Like, there's a lot of policy you have to consider. There's a lot of politics as well, and like land and geography, all these things, making the scope even wider. Do you think there's room for for example, like arts or humanities, health science, kinesiology students, like integrating even more fields into sustainability studies? And how do you think that would look in an ideal world? I also know like, you've been interested in these things in the past, like in the arts and things like that? Yeah. Maybe you can speak from that as well like your own experience in bringing these ideas all together.
Yeah. Well, I will say that one of the biggest drivers of change is getting people invested in making that change. It's it's going to take everyone in order to really see change, we can make these global switches in, in our demand for energy without getting everyone on board. And one of the best ways to do that is to bring awareness to it through the arts, for example, three into films and into visual art and into theater where people are really taking these messages to heart unless people are truly believed that it is a cause worth fighting for, then we're not going to be able to make the change that we need to prefer.
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Also, I don't know if you know about this, but there's a super interesting program with music as well. So there's Ocean Networks, Canada, which does kind of run out of music as well. They do sort of like a music artist in residence, who does, they're supposed to do work kind of associated with oceans sustainability, climate change. I know last year, it was a PhD student by the name of Colin, who did steel drum work based on whale song. So just really, really interesting stuff. And like, brought it brought ocean I was candidates my attention, first of all, yeah, but also just like, yeah, you're totally right. Like, people kind of do some of the arts a lot. Sometimes just like in terms of saying that things, the work that they do doesn't matter all the time or but you're I think you're totally right in saying that there's, it's like the best way to get people invested into things and get people to care, because artists know how to pull the heartstrings. So that's kind of Yeah, and they use it to inspire change, as you said, What do you think will be next for you after this kind of chapter of your life?
Yeah, I don't know, I didn't even really see myself for a long time, especially at the start of my undergrad, it was kind of like, it was it was pretty tough. And I was in, in engineering. And I was thinking, yeah, because I'm gonna get this done. And that will be all for academia for me, but things just kind of moved in the direction where I ended up here, and I'm loving it. And that's, that's kind of the way that I've, I've gone I've, I've kind of tried to seize opportunities that, that come to me and see where they take me. So I, I won't say it kind of makes it sound like oh, yeah, whatever happens, happens. But at the same time, I feel like it's more that I will really try and take hold of an opportunity that comes my way, and see where it takes me. And if it's something that I want to be doing, then I'll continue doing it. And if I don't want to do it anymore, then I won't do it anymore. So for example, like I don't really have any plans to continue towards doing a PhD. But you never know, I really never know what's gonna happen with this ccsl program, we do some kind of interdisciplinary internship at some point that might combine your research with some aspect of sustainability. I mean, my two are kind of already intrinsically tied together. But who knows, maybe that'll mean working with some company that brings me into industry. So I'm just really excited to see where all these opportunities take me. And whether that's industry or whether that's continuing in academia, I'm just excited for what the future brings.
Awesome. You have anything else to add to this interview? Anything else you want people to know about? The program or your work or of yourself?
Yeah, well, they I believe, I'm not sure where they are on I think applications have already been submitted for this year's this next this incoming cohort, so the second cohort, but maybe look into it, if you're interested in that there, there might be still accepting applications because honestly has been, not only has it been a great program for learning more about sustainability, but I've made some great friends through the program too. And it's really allowed me to kind of broaden my horizons of the people and hanging out with it's now no longer just, I'm in these classes with all these engineers. So it's given me an opportunity to still be in classes with other engineers, but also people from other fields. And it's been a really cool experience. And I 100% glad that that I did it. Yeah, it's
pretty fantastic that all of you are kind of in this program together. Because I think a lot you can ask many grad students, it's kind of say like, do you know anybody else like in different programs like and they'll say, probably not like, it's harder to make friends I think, than it is an undergrad maybe in some ways, because you're not in residence. Like you don't have bigger classes. It's it's harder to get involved with clubs and things I feel like so it's pretty fantastic. Like you kind of like have a built in very like tight knit group. It sounds like across disciplines that can bring you to these different opportunities that might come up for sure. Thanks so much, Luke. I really appreciate you being here. And best of luck with the rest of your studies. Awesome. Yeah. Thanks
for having me, Sam.
Thanks again to Luke Seybold. This is a really great episode to start off the 10 season of beyond the jargon and I'm super glad we were able to start off by discussing really important global issues that have very strong local implications here in Victoria and the West
I personally am really inspired when I hear about the work that graduate students do to tackle these big issues, especially at a local level practical work encouraged and organized by cohorts like ccsl. Thanks for tuning in. This has been beyond the jargon on CFUV 101.9 FM and I hope you'll tune into our next episode. My name is Sam Kaiser, and I hope you have a great rest of your day, your evening or whatever time this ends up being broadcast at. Thank you so much.