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On the road training schools in Trust-Based Observations trainings, we periodically see absolute teaching brilliance during our 20-minute observations. It dawned on us that we have an obligation to share this brilliance with all teachers so they can learn and grow from one another. Each episode is an interview with one of these teachers where we explore their strengths as they share their tips and tricks. Tips and tricks that definitely lead to improved teaching and learning.
10 Malik Bryant
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Craig Randall: [00:00:00] Hi, I'm Craig Randall. Welcome to another edition of 20 Minutes of Teaching Brilliance on the Road with Trust Based Observations. Today I have with me Malik Bryant and Malik Bryant works at Martin Luther School in Plymouth Meeting, Pennsylvania, which is really just beautiful. Philadelphia or Philadelphia suburb and it's a really unique and interesting school and I know we'll dive into that along the way.
Um, Malik, how are you?
Malik Bryant: Yeah, I'm doing good. How about yourself?
Craig Randall: I'm doing well, thanks. Um, Malik, how about we start by you telling people about yourself, your background, how you got into teaching, how you ended up at Martin Luther King and just what you do at Martin Luther. No, we're not Martin Luther King, it's Martin Luther.
Malik Bryant: Yeah, Martin Luther School. Yeah, anyway, go ahead. Well, starting out I went to college for business, um, it was the School Corps of California Pennsylvania. It was up in Pittsburgh area. I did that for business. Then after business, I realized the jobs I was picking for [00:01:00] myself was more in the helpful field.
So I was a recruiter. I did door to door when it came to selling, selling sidings for homes. I work with kids, delivering food to different neighborhoods and doing different activities within those neighborhoods to help just, you know, during the summer jobs for the kids. So it was more of a, it was tailored to me about, I learned, had that conversation with myself that.
My goal is to help others. And it was, I wasn't doing it for the money. I wasn't doing it for the fame or glory. I just know that my personality is I like to help other people. Yeah. So then what got me looking at Martin Luther is that , my older brother, he actually worked at Martin Luther as a teacher assistant.
And he was telling me, Yeah, he was telling me for years, like, Malik, you'll like the job, I promise you, you'll like the job, the kids is fun to work with, the staff is great, just, just try it. So I was holding back on it, because I didn't feel like, like, like I said, I like working with kids and everything, but it was just [00:02:00] that nervousness into, can I actually go to a school, can I actually help a kid, and then to the point, can I actually teach kids?
Yeah. So it was just a fear. It was more of just a fear of mine, but I was like, you know what? I got faith in my brother. So from there, I'm like, let me just try it. Then since then, it was like the best job I ever had teaching students. So I started off as a ta, which is a teacher assistant when I'm assisting the teacher.
Then I went from there. It was mixed with being a shared staff. Where I worked in the units was when the kids is inbound and at the school, because there's a residential part
Craig Randall: of the school as well,
Malik Bryant: residential part of the school. But then from a TA, I moved to a co-teaching position. 'cause I wanted to like, I felt like I was teaching already as a ta, so I felt like I might as well just.
See what, how far I can get teaching. So I went from TA to co teaching and then this year, currently, that's when I finally was, became my own teacher in my class for the eighth grade math class.
Craig Randall: And one of the cool [00:03:00] things about Martin Luther School is it's, uh, we'll dig into it a little bit more, but it's a school of social behavior, emotional behavior support school, and it's, so there's obviously a large number of TAs in the school.
One of the great things about the program there, I know that Ava, the head has brought about is to support TAs that want to get into teaching to become teachers as well. And that's kind of how you ended up on that path, right?
Malik Bryant: Yes, that's exactly how I ended up here.
Craig Randall: I just wanted to provide that to the audience so they knew what we were talking about.
So you're teaching 8th grade math now. Why don't you tell the audience, it's such a unique school, and as you know, it's one of my favorite places. I spend a lot of time there and, um, and I love all you guys. I feel like, I feel like I'm part of your family and you're part of my family. But it is a unique school.
Will you maybe tell, tell the listeners a little bit about the school?
Malik Bryant: Yeah, Martin Luther King is a behavioral school. It's a kids from all different backgrounds and they come in. So it's more as a school that [00:04:00] focus on behavior, but they also have a, they also have a tendency to focus on the education part of it.
So, it's like, they're trying to bridge the gap between the behavior and education for kids to move on to go back to their districts. That's the main goal of the kids to come to our school. Basically, we try to rework them into becoming students, students that could go back to district. I don't know the exact word I can say for it, but it's more, we're just a stepping stone to when they could get back to their school district.
And then that's what we are, basically.
Craig Randall: And basically, most of the kids there weren't having success at their public schools, because you draw from basically all the schools in the greater Philadelphia area, and um, either they were removed or whatever from the public schools, and this is a place where we're still able to support them and provide them with Uh, with schooling and then work on growing them academically as well as choices [00:05:00] behaviorally so they can achieve success back in their previous schools.
Am I nailing that?
Malik Bryant: Yeah, the school is catered for the kids to basically have different systems. We got like kickboard system. We track their behavior with that. Yeah. And they get catered like. The more, the good you, the better you do, the more points you earn. It's a reward system that plays a part in it.
And the kids actually enjoys that reward system, which better them, and they have better relationship with their peers and staff.
(ad here) Yeah, it makes them think about their, their actions and behaviors in a way to hopefully change and grow their behaviors, right? So, Malik, you're only a first year teacher, but when I was in your classroom, um, I don't know, was it in February?
Craig Randall: Not too long ago, and, um, when I was in there, the, the thing that just absolutely blew me away was watching you, the way you differentiated, and in a school like that, you have to differentiate and adapt your practice to the needs of each individual student, because they are so, so unique, but [00:06:00] the level at which you did that for each and every student, the level at which you knew them.
Each student as a human being so you knew how to work with each individual human being in a different way and the way that each one of them needed to provide success and then the way that with your descriptive progress feedback. When you were checking on what they're understanding and not understanding, you only used questions.
You not once did you give them the answer, but you would, you just had this ability to know exactly the right type of question and level of question To get each student to get to the answer. And if that question didn't work, then you would maybe go down to a different kind of a question, and so you got an answer at some level, so you could build them back up.
And it just, it blew me away. I'd never seen it done better in my career. And, and you're a first year teacher and doing that. So, I don't even know where we want to start because I just said a whole bunch of things about it. Why don't we, um, where do you want to start with that? Do you want to start about knowing the students or about the use of coaching or about [00:07:00] differentiation?
Where do you want to start?
Malik Bryant: From my experience, I feel like it's knowing the student. Each student got their own behavior to them. Each student got their own way of expressing. I know some of my kids, they don't like to go to the board. So I'll be more one on one person at their desk and they'll feel more comfortable talking to me and then I will express the answer to the whole class and I will, and I will congratulate the student as well to build their confidence up.
Let's say I'm like, hey Jack, thank you for telling me the answer was A, B, C. Every class, did y'all understand where he get that from? And then we'll piggyback off of that, then go to the next kid and the next kid. But it's more, I don't know, I just feel like having a relationship with the kids. Making them laugh, making them feel comfortable to come to you to say that, Oh, I don't know this one or being confident enough to encourage them to get to the board to do it.
And then watching them see me mess up. Sometimes I mess up intentionally. Sometimes I mess up accidentally. But for them [00:08:00] to, hey, I, when a kid corrects me, hey, you know, that's not how that goes. Oh, so now you want to be the teacher today. Thank you for letting me know that. And then that gives them a laugh.
And then they feel like, oh, I did something. I'm not like, I don't know. I just make, try to be on a level, but at the same time, have those boundaries with them. That's basically, and I do that with each kid differently.
Craig Randall: So you're, I mean, one, you're just talking about the value of relationship, the value of understanding each student, what does and doesn't work for each student.
Is that somebody that's more quiet or more outgoing? Are they going to feel comfortable or not? Like knowing each student and getting to know them well enough to do that. Sounds like using humor is a, is a big part of that. And also, like you're sharing your mistakes, whether you're doing the mistakes on purpose or not.
Showing your own humanity. So if I can get up and make a mistake in front, then it makes it so if they go up to the front and make a mistake, it's more comfortable for them to do that as well.
Malik Bryant: Yes.
Craig Randall: Yeah. So how do you like, I mean, you've been in the school a while, so you probably knew a fair amount of the [00:09:00] kids in one role, but you've moved now into the teaching role.
Like, how do you get to know those kids? How do you know what does and doesn't work for each student in your class?
Malik Bryant: Just having a conversation with them, observing them, having them see the talk, because of my TAs that's with me, that's amazing. So, they were able, I can, as they talking to the students, as the other one talk to the students, I can hear their conversation go back and forth.
So, it's more of a, I'm observing how each kid reacts. If I say, who would like to go to the board? If I see the fastest hands go up, but do you know, you see the ones that give you the sigh, knowing that don't call on me, don't call on me. It's like a. I know I'm not going to call on you to go to the board, but that's when I know I got to get up and go talk to you one on one and see if we could figure this problem out together on your sheet.
And then once you feel confident enough on the paper, hey, can you, you did great. Can you just go write everything we just talked about on the board? And then that's when he'll go to the board, she'll go to the board, they'll write [00:10:00] everything down and they'd be like, wait, that was it? That's everything? I said, yeah, I told you it's not that, it's not hard.
It's just something we just didn't learn just yet. Just work on it, and then you'll do great.
Craig Randall: You're building confidence through experience. And, and, you're also, you have high expectations and accountability too. I remember that, I can't remember her name, but that young woman in your class, and she did not want to go to the board.
But you were building her up, to like, you can do it, you can do it. I know you can do it. And, and, but not forcing her, but pushing her at the same time. And finding that just right balance between getting her there, But not making her get defensive and pull back and like, how, how does that happen?
Malik Bryant: Um, it's just, like I said, the community of the classroom itself, they have trust in myself, my colleague, Ms.
Mel, and my colleague, Mr. Rich. So we'll say, if you make a mistake, just look at me, Ms. Mel, Mr. Rich, and we'll, we'll walk you through the steps. No, we're not up here to give you the wrong answer. We're not up [00:11:00] here to make fun of you. We're not up here. We're up here to make sure that we all get to the right answer.
And the only answer we should be writing on the board is the correct one. So if you fall, if you feel like you don't know what's going on, just secretly, you could come to us. You don't got to be in front of the class and I will never expose you to the class saying, hey, you don't know this. So you should be paying attention.
I always tell them, if you feel like you don't understand it, pull one of the TAs on myself to the side, tell me if I'm going too fast or if I'm moving too slow. And then you just remember these things from different kids. Yeah. Okay. I know, I know this kid. I know he's going to be, I'm ready for the next question.
I'm ready for the next one. But then I know the other kid behind and we'll be like, um, or try to put their head down because they don't know it. So I know that I'm going to focus my energy. I'm going to move the other kids forward. Hey, you move on to here. If you have any questions, please let me know. But then I'm going to, my core group is the ones that I'm finding the ones that put their head down.
The ones that's not trying to look at me, because I know those are the ones that [00:12:00] need my help the most, while still going back to the ones that are already finished and saying, Hey, now can you help this kid out while I go over here to this kid? So now I'm letting the students become the teachers as well,
Craig Randall: which is huge when you're doing that.
And I think one of the things that I heard you say, I think that is really important is that kid that puts the head down. Man, a lot of times I think as teachers we sometimes think that can be, that can be such a challenging kid or they're not in the right space and let's just leave them be, but then that kid's not learning and, and you're not doing that.
You're saying, no, no, no, no, no. How do I get to that kid? I set up my other kids first. They're okay. Then I'm going to find the right way to work with that kid to get them there too. You know, when we were, when we were in class that day and we were watching too, yeah. They were doing, uh, they were doing formulas.
It was like a chart of A, B kind of thing, like math formulas. Right. And they had to create their own formula if I'm not mistaken. And when I was watching and like, you knew [00:13:00] how, when you were working with each student, To even in front of the class the way that you would, because kids would be working on their own some, but then they would also be watching what the student that was up front was doing,
Malik Bryant: but
Craig Randall: you also knew with each student what was the right way to work with it, like whether you could be loud and fun with that kid in front of the class, or some students you would just be like, you'd be up at the front, but you'd be talking real soft like this with that student and asking them questions like that, because you knew that's what that student needed, because even just to get, like I'm thinking about that one young woman, Even just to have gotten her up front, so just getting her up there and making sure it was successful and figuring out what the best way to build success with her is when she's come up to the front, when she's not super confident in her abilities,
Malik Bryant: to
Craig Randall: get her to feel success so she'll come up again and that you knew, like, Like it was just so brilliant to me watching that and knowing that you knew that in that quiet just you it's just you and me we might be in front [00:14:00] of them but let's just pretend it's just you and me like that was so genius like how do you know them like how do you know to work with that kid like that it's more because
Malik Bryant: it's like some kids have a stage fright so when you go to the board you know it's going to be eyes glued to you For the ones that's gonna, it's the ones that's gonna judge you like, oh, she don't know.
Or it's gonna be the ones that are like, oh, encourage her. Like, you got this. But, so it's more of a, I'm gonna face you, I'm gonna, I'm gonna sit, I'm gonna sit by your side and we're gonna face the board. None of this behind us means anything to us. Yeah. Yeah. We're gonna, it's just me, you, and this problem on the board, and we're gonna try to figure out.
If we gotta go the lowest we can go to get to that answer, let's go there, but I want you to know that I'm here for you and that we're both here and I'm locked in on this problem together. It's like making sure it's a single in the mouth for each problem.
~I think it went,~
~it froze up a little bit.~
Craig Randall: ~Well, that wasn't good. Hold on one sec. Okay. ~
Malik Bryant: ~Yeah, no problem. ~
Craig Randall: ~All right, we'll just edit this part out.~
~All right, so hopefully we'll get there now. Um, can you hear me? ~
Malik Bryant: ~Yeah, I can hear you. ~
Craig Randall: ~All right, so basically, we're just going to, uh, we're going to edit this out. I think. So, um, so the part that you were talking about was like, we're back to the board or back. We're at the board back to the class. You just want to go from there.~
Malik Bryant: ~Yeah, so basically, I was saying that our, our back is to the classroom, but we're both side by side facing the~ And I wanted to make it like an isolation, like it's just me, the student, and the problem [00:15:00] that we need to solve. And that's why I spoke in a lower voice, that's why, so it make it seem like it's a, like, make it sound like, yo, I'm just here talking to you, I'm not talking to nobody else, because if I'm speaking loud, that means I'm talking to the class, but I'm speaking quietly, this is a one on one conversation that we're both going to solve for the board so we can give to the class.
Craig Randall: And so just somehow some way like you just know that like then she'll forget that I'm in front of the class and then she's up in front of the board, but she almost forget she's in front of the board. So she's taking that risk almost without even really realizing she's taking the risk because really, as soon as you got her up to the front, you won.
Right? And you got her to come up and solve the problem. So when you're, when you're with the kids and no matter what level of, of a, of a formula that they created, everyone worked and you found a way to help make sure it worked for everyone. So afterwards, when he shared it out, whether it was somebody that was a more basic formula or a more advanced formula, it was still a formula, right?
A, [00:16:00] B, A, B, A, B, A, B. And so they had success no matter what. When you're working with those kids up there. I mean, Malik, I, I watched, you know, I see more teachers than anybody on planet Earth over the course of the year through a lens of observation and I think we sometimes have a tendency to do more giving the kids the answer and more explaining and instructing , and I'm not saying there aren't times when that's necessary, but maybe sometimes where we could use more questions to get the kids to get the answers on their own.
And there's more power when they do that. And that day. Okay. Every single kid you worked with, it was nothing but questions. You not once did you give an answer and like one how have you figured out in your first year of teaching to do that and then two how do you know when you ask a question and they don't get the question to not give in and give the answer and then to go [00:17:00] find another more basic like how do you explain that to me
Malik Bryant: um it's more i i'm i like i like to read people like body language facial expressions So if I'm saying words, if I'm saying words that you're just not familiar with, I'ma try to, I'ma go down and then that's when you're going to work with a different word.
Then if that word's not, like we was talking with the girl, she, I'm, oh, do you know your, do you know your 10 times tables? I'm starting off with, I'm starting off with the, I'm hitting you with easy 10 times tables. You tell me no. Okay, let's go. Do you know your two times tables? Um, not really. Nobody really taught me too much on that.
Okay. What about your one times table? Do you know what one, you know what, when it comes to one time takes one times, whatever numbers is what, then you give me the answer instead of me saying one times one is one. So what you write one times two is, I want you to tell me what one times one is. And if you're correct, that's a great job.
So now I'm getting you, then I'm a boost you back up. So what you think one says now you hit me one times one. You [00:18:00] told me it was one. So, all right, let's go. What's one times 10. I'm going to go back to that same number that we started with. And then you buy, Oh, if one times one is one, one times two is two.
So one times one, one times 10 is 10. Then they act, they're asking, they ask you, they answer it, but asking in a question way. So then it's like, are you asking me or are you telling me? And then, then that's when it's like. This is why I know I'm going to be, if you're either going to step up and be confident with your answer, or you're going to try to go backwards.
Because if you go backwards, that's when I'm going to hit you with more different questions. But if you say, no, it is 10. Okay, now we, we, we get the ball rolling and we're going to continue. It's more of, I don't know, I feel like it's more of a, because I have two kids now and one on the way, so they're babies.
So I would like a teacher, if I'm a teacher in a role, I want a teacher to be like me. Yep. So that's how I would [00:19:00] try to teach other people's children. Yeah. I want you to enjoy what, because I know math is a hard subject for a lot of people, it was a hard subject for myself, but I knew for a fact that if it was a way I can make it fun, I knew I could get through to them.
So I'm making more jokes in class. I'm not the, I'm not funniest in the world, but I make them laugh, which is great for myself and it's great for them. I want them to feel comfortable with me. And then I would like that for my children as well, if I know they're struggling on a subject, it could be science, history, it could be whatever.
I know that if you make it a little bit fun for the kid, Or the student, then that will slowly get the ball rolling for them. Want to be wanting to come more to the class or learn a little bit more about it.
Craig Randall: So I'm hearing again, coming back to like, first, I have to have relationships. I have to, I have to make the cast class engaging, whether that's through humor, whether that's through individual connection with kid.
But I have to, I have to have relationships with kids and have to understand kids. And then I'm also hearing you say that [00:20:00] like. In the moment, like, I'm using my own emotional intelligence to read each individual student and like, what are their, what are their eyes telling me? What is their body language telling me?
Are they telling me, oh, fear, I don't get this. And then, or no, I've got it. And so then use that then to tailor my next question. Like if I see that deer in headlights, whoops, I need to go back to a lower question. Still deer in headlights, whoops, I need to go back to a lower question. And then I'm also hearing then, when you have success, At whatever level you have to go to.
And look, let's be honest about Martin Luther school. We're getting kids that have been, I think it's fair to say some of these kids have been failed by their public school systems and because we're having kids in your class that really ought to be, have more success. I mean, we've got a rate, we have a huge range of levels of ability in your class, right?
And some of those kids at the lower levels, like it's a, it's a. Frankly, it ought to be criminal that some of them have been allowed to not progress further and not worked with on an individual level. So you're [00:21:00] working with kids on a dramatic, I don't want to get too much into the politics of today, or I'll start getting all mad, but.
But we've got a huge variance in the level of your kids. And so when you're saying one times one or one times 10, you're not even, I mean, you're not really exaggerating at the very low end of your spectrum versus the kids that are on grade level, basically in class two. And so you've got to work with that.
But what I'm also hearing you say, Malik, is that when I'm seeing that kid, You're building their confidence at the same time because you're, you're doing that. Well, are you asking me? Are you telling me? Because you ask me, then I'm just going to keep asking you basic questions. Like, you're almost saying, I'm just going to torture you if you're going to ask.
But until you say it with some confidence, then we can move forward. I'll say it with confidence, just so Malik will leave me alone. But you're not really leaving me alone. You'll get into the next step then. And, and so. I love that as you're asking the questions, you're instilling confidence in them or forcing them to make themselves be confident or [00:22:00] even fake it till they make it type confidence as well.
Malik Bryant: Yeah, that's exactly right. Even when this is when it comes into writing on the board, my slogan is if you're writing small, you're not writing with confidence. I need to see you write big so that some of them will go drastically and try to write on the whole entire board. This is the answer you wanted, right?
But which makes them laugh, makes myself laugh, makes the class laugh. But, at the end of the day, once I see that you're comfortable writing big, I know that you're, you're confident on your answer, but if I see you writing like real small, you're not sure what's going on. So I'm saying, Oh, we can't see that.
Can you see that y'all? No, we can't see that. And then they're like, what? They erase it and then write a little bit bigger. And I'm like, so you writing small with the correct answer. And then we'll just go on from there,
Craig Randall: which is again, it's relationship. It's confidence building. It's having high expectations.
It's accountable. I'm going to build success with you as you're going to do it. So, when you're when you're asking [00:23:00] those questions, Malik, like, what even though made you. Like, cause I just don't see it that much. Like you're only asking questions. You're never giving in and giving the answer. How, how are you like, how did you learn to do that as a first year teacher?
What made you decide that?
Malik Bryant: I can't take all the credit. I, I got my other step, like my co teacher, she was great. She told, she told, she was teaching me the way I had, when I was a TA, I had teachers like Mr. Shafi, Mr. Aaron, that was also the ones that was giving me. Giving me, just giving me game for teaching which made, which I just kept all in and I realized asking questions and not telling them answers because even I tell the kids I said do not tell them the answer because that's not going to help.
Me telling you the answers will never help you but me just keep asking you simple questions and then advance the questions. You'll, you'll be able to have a better conversation with each other and with staff and also you'll just be able to learn it better and there's because there's nothing [00:24:00] wrong with asking questions at all.
I don't know why I wasn't asking questions since I was little. (ad here) ~Mm ~
Craig Randall: ~hmm. Mm hmm. ~ I think, I think sometimes, Malik, I think people will think if they don't get it, well then I need to give them the answer. And, and, there has to be a certain calm you develop to go, nope, nope. And it is reading that body language,
Malik Bryant: then
Craig Randall: to know, like, Like, how do you know if that doesn't work to find that, for lack of a better word, that lower level question?
Malik Bryant: I can take it from my personal experience. If I say we're having a conversation and you tell me, you just hit me with a word that I just never heard of. I'm like, Can you explain that? Because I'm not scared. I'm not scared of criticism. I'm not scared of judgment. It's like, I come as I am and if I don't understand a word, if I don't understand the conversation, I'm going to ask you questions.
I'm not going to sit there quietly and then I walk away from it and then let's say days later, we [00:25:00] come back to it. And now you think I'm aware of everything we just spoke about and I'm just I'm 1 of the kids with deer and headlights. So it's more of just. I know I struggle with things, so I know kids struggle with things, so if you just continue to ask some questions, breaking each word down, breaking each formula down, that they will sooner or later, they will understand at their level, and then that's when we can build upon their level and try to get them back to where they need to be.
Craig Randall: So almost like you're using your own experience then to go, okay, so if, if at any point in time I've struggled, because every teacher has struggled, not as a, maybe as a teacher, but even just as a human being to understand things along the way. So, if I put myself in the shoes of like, a time when I've struggled with something, how do I break it down and then break it down and then break it down more and then break it down more until you get that little bit of the light as opposed to the deer and headlights, the light bulb.
And so you're going down as far as you need to go until you see that first light bulb, even if it's one times one, [00:26:00] that's a light bulb. And now I can get to the next light bulb and the next light bulb and the next light bulb, but you persist. And you don't give up because it by giving the answer that discovers not happening.
And each time there's that light bulb, that's a confidence builder, right? That gets like that young woman, like, maybe she's a little more confident. Maybe, maybe she'll be at the point where now you two can do the problem and talk about it in front of everybody in front of the class. Right? And it's, it's that persistence in that.
I think actually, literally, as we're talking about this right now, I just have this like. Warm feeling in my heart just thinking about that and thinking about your persistence in making the kids. grow and get better. It's, it's, it's, it was so fun to see that day and, and that, that you're a young teacher doing this in your first year just blows me away.
Malik, sometimes people, uh, will, some of our listeners afterwards will want to, uh, want to reach out and maybe learn from, from some of our guests experiences. And so, uh, Do you mind sharing out like maybe your [00:27:00] work email in case anybody wants to reach out and learn about relationships or pushing kids hard or, uh, differentiating or using coaching descriptive progress feedback?
Malik Bryant: Yeah, no problem. So you can reach me at m the letter M Bryant, B-R-Y-A-N-T, at martin luther school.org.
Craig Randall: M Bryant, B-R-Y-A-N-T, at martin luther school.org. Malik, it was fabulous, chatting today. It's fabulous as it was watching you. I know, I think I'll be out at the school. I think we're talking about maybe late September.
So I'll see. Uh, I'll see you then again. But, uh, thanks a million and have a great day.
Malik Bryant: Same to you. Thank you so much.
Craig Randall: Take care.
Malik Bryant: You too.