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Andrew Le Jeune talks with the sport's biggest names to discuss the one race that stands out in their memory. Jockeys, trainers, owners, broadcasters and officials all take a turn at recalling the stories behind their biggest racing moments on 'The Race'.
Idol Horse (00:01.826)
The Australian spring centred around one horse, arguably, and one horse only. And that was defending Cox Plate champion So You
Yennis followed by shootout, Captain Sonnador, Hube got you still a long way back around the turn, so you think by a length, Moore-Joyce is trying her heart out but she can't go with him then
Whilst there might have been some surprise about So You Think winning as a three-year-old at double figure price, there were no shocks when he came back the following year to defend his crown.
as a twos on favourites and a raw display of power and speed under Steven Arnold. So and claim his second Wait For Age crown. A whirlwind spring, which ultimately saw him head off to Europe, was quite a performance, including four group ones. All right, this is the race brought to you by Idle Horse. I'm very pleased to say that Steven Arnold joins us to reflect on that fantastic afternoon at Moonee Valley. Steven, what was that?
special day for you but very special horse as well as far as your career was concerned. Yeah that's right Andrew thanks for having us on. He's yeah what a special horse and it's actually great to see him continue on you know in the the stallion ranks and obviously went overseas and really plied his trade really well over there and really and made us proud you know to have a small part of his career over here but yeah it a great spring and I was lucky enough to get on him obviously his first start in his prepping at all.
Idol Horse (01:59.85)
didn't call me in the the the Cox Plate that was our goal for the year so the Cox Plate was the the race that we wanted to win that spring and he was obviously good enough to do that. We'll come back to the European side of things in general. It's a worldwide campaign at the end because he was a champion over there but a genuine champion here as well. How did it all come about though for you because he'd won the year before as a three-year-old Glenn Boss road obviously had a
very lightweight at weight-freight conditions, but you got on board for the start of his four-year-old preparation. How did that come about, the association with him and Bart? Yeah, exactly. Obviously, Glenn, being a lightweight jockey and a great jockey, was his jockey as a three-year-old. When he came back, he missed the autumn. He had a throat operation around the autumn time, so he had that whole season off. So he'd come back in the spring.
in the Memzy and I wasn't really locked in early. I think there was a few jockeys in the mix, but I was doing a little bit of work for, I'd done a fair bit of work for Bart in Melbourne over the previous few years and Reg Fleming, his Bart's foreman down here in Melbourne, used to use me quite a bit and we got on very well. So I was lucky enough to get the call up to come and write him a track work at Corfield. Then I saw I was in the mix to write him.
riding in the Memsie, which obviously that was a race that I thought was very important to win. Obviously you go out to win all races, but once I rode him in the Memsie, he started pretty good odds in the Memsie. think it was a bit of a, I'm going to wait and see if he was back after his throat operation and just see what sort of level he could get to. he was a good, strong winner of the Memsie. And after that, I thought, you know, I'm a good chance of staying on him. So that was the start of my ride on, so you think. What was Bart like to...
ride for generally, did he tie you down, did he lock you down to instructions or once you got that association, the rapport and you knew him, he sort of leave it up to you to a certain extent? Yeah, I found Bart very good. As I said, I'd ridden a fair bit for him before so you think and he was, you know, if he was happy enough to give you the ride, he was pretty confident that you could get the job done and you know, everyone does their homework and we sort of all know the form and what's going on around us. So Bart was really casual to ride for in that way. He'd come out and say,
Idol Horse (04:23.022)
we got the best horse, we should get the best run, you know, it should be pretty easy, you know, so that was his, I think he liked to do that to try and just install a little bit of confidence in the jockey, whether he thought that or he was panicking, you're stuff it up, I don't know, but at the time he used to just try and install that little bit of confidence in his jockey and think, you know, there's no problems, this should be fairly easy. So that was his approach to his instructions most of the time and I found that pretty good and pretty relaxing on such a horse.
You know, had a lot of pressure on him. You said the Cox plate was the ultimate aim that spring to come back and defend his crown, but you know, he was fourth up into the head two group, the Underwood and the Caulfield stakes. certainly fitness, he wasn't going be lacking for fitness on the big day. No, exactly right. He was, he was, he was primed for that race. As I said, that was his, that was his goal the whole way through the, through the preparation. And he, he actually obviously went on.
He won the McKinnon the sad day after that and then he went on to run an unbelievable race in the Melbourne Cup. was actually quite a, he was not physically immature but he was quite late in the season to be born so he was actually quite a young horse when he went to his second Cox Plate in the Melbourne Cup. So when you think about it now, he won the Cox Plate on the sad day, McKinnon the following sad day, Tuesday Melbourne Cup.
It's a pretty big ask for a very young horse. He won his second Cox plate at his 10th run in a race. So to then go onto the Melbourne Cup was probably just a little bit of a stretch for him. And he overraced in the Melbourne Cup and he got very stirred up and he'd probably just come to the end of his preparation. But his run in the Melbourne Cup was one of his career best runs, I think, to finish where he did without being probably a genuine two-miler. So that was an incredible effort.
Yeah, we were very proud of him, to win the Cox Plate was definitely his aim for the campaign. Yeah, so he's a November Fault. it was technically, yeah. Yeah, technically speaking, it wasn't even four by the time that that came around. Exactly. Yes. So Cox Plate Day itself, you're a short price favorite. You go in, you walk in to the weighing room. You've got to pretty confident, haven't you? Yeah, I was. There was always.
Idol Horse (06:44.142)
I was older when I rode, I think I might have been 35 or something. So it wasn't just starting off. I'd had quite a bit of experience, but there's still, there's a fair bit of pressure on that sort of horse. He started a short price favorite. The good thing about, so you think was he was very easy, like there was a lot of good things about him, but one of his good attributes was you could park him up out of trouble. So I always knew he was a little bit, could get a bit fractious in the stall.
Once I got him out of the stalls, I knew that I could park him up out of trouble. You end up outside the leader more joyous. And it was pretty trouble free on him. You know, I see some of these great horses like, you know, Hugh Bowman on Winx, like he had to park out the back and traffic and run a race stuff would be a factor. But with, so you think that was taken out of it a little bit because you could roll forward and dominate the race. And he would love to dominate a race as he could put on, put on pressure and sustain the gallop for a long time.
in one way he made it easy, then you start to sort of, you're going down to the stalls and you got a bit stirred up going to the stalls and you think he only has to pull a shoe off or something for it to be a disaster, you know. So those little things more so probably come into it in the actual race. Once I was out of the stalls and rolling down past the post the first time, it was pretty straightforward. know, the actual ride on the day was, know, degree of difficulty wasn't that high to be honest. So.
So as I say, once I was out of the stalls and just got to ride the horse, it was pretty smooth sailing. was more joyous out in front of you. assume Nash thought his best chance of beating you was to, he wasn't going particularly quick, was maybe with a turn of foot. But I'm assuming you just parked on his high quarters. You were pretty happy all the way around. Yeah, exactly. Like we'd raced Hube Gotu. He was a very good horse at the time. But he actually had a better top speed than me.
So in the races I always used to be wary not to go too slow. yeah, went pretty gentle through the first half of the race. So he thinks, as I say, his big asset was he could sustain a gallop. He wasn't the fastest horse I've ever ridden, but he could sustain a gallop for like 800 meters. So I went up and had a look at Moorjoy. was pretty early in the race, but just to take that electrifying turn of foot out of her and Moorjoy, and Hubergotu, who I knew would be trailing in.
Idol Horse (09:06.35)
and actually had a, as I said, had a quicker, better turn of foot than me. But if I dragged it out of him and the others from the 1,800 metre mark, so you think was usually the strongest horse. And personally for you to win the Cox Plate, I'm sure that must have been a high up on your list for a long time. How did you celebrate afterwards? Yeah, celebrations were just, Bart sort of traditionally always went into the crown and we did that and had dinner with Bart.
So that was a great night just to be involved in that because you see it over the years, but you know, we're in the casino having dinner after his Melbourne Cup wins and his Cops plate wins. So to be a part of that is a little bit surreal and yeah, a great evening, a little bit more, I would say there was a little bit of relief involved because he's just built up, he was built up that whole spring, you know, for the...
for the Cox Plate and it was such a short price for it. You just wanted everything to go right and the horse to show his best and as I say, nothing to go wrong. So it was a little bit of relief involved rather than actual, you know, I've had more, I'd say adrenaline rush and pure sort of enjoyment out of other group ones. Whereas this one was tinned with a little bit of relief. Remarkable though, just a week later, as you said before, backs up and wins the McKinnon though.
Yeah, as I say, when we look at it technically, he was still only a three-year-old physically. And he went to the MacKinnon, one of his most dominant wings. I parked him in a little bit just behind the speed. He ended up sort of 1.1 in the run. Because I was just trying to see if we could ride him a fraction quieter to run that two mile on the Tuesday. And he was awesome in the MacKinnon. He canned it up. He didn't turn a hair in that.
That gave me a little bit of confidence to go to the Melbourne Cup, but as I say, it was just a bridge too far on that day, but still run an incredible race. Did you know at this point, you have to remind me of the timeline of the eventual deal with Coolmore, was it already being talked about at this stage? Had it been done or was it still sort of all in the background? No, nothing at all. Had no sort of inkling of it until it actually happened. certainly wasn't on the cards.
Idol Horse (11:30.934)
when he was racing for Bart and when I was riding him, I had sort of no idea about the deal, whether it was being shaped at that stage, I'm not sure, but certainly had no feeling that that might be the case. Had it not happened, I've torn a little bit with how it went because it was great to see him campaign overseas and win those races in Europe, and I'll talk about that in a second, but had he not gone, you know, who knows?
what would have happened if he stayed in Australia? But I'm sure Bart would have been looking at a third Cox plate at least and maybe even a fourth Pinker Pinker won the year after an Ocean Park the year after that. although his legacy, his legend grew worldwide, it could have been even bigger had he stayed in Australia. Yeah, exactly, Andrew. So sort of from personal point of view and a selfish point of view, would have been lovely for him to for one more.
As you mentioned, nothing against Pinker Pika, great mayor, but he would have won the next Cox plate, would have been three in a row, I'm sure, if he had held together, which he did, because physically he was good, he raced for another, whatever he raced for, two seasons or whatever he raced for. So physically he was fine. So he would have went on to, I'm sure, win three Cox plates after that. Yeah, as you say, Ocean Park, who knows then, you never know sort of that far down the track, but I'm sure he would have won three. So from a selfish point of view, I would have loved him to stay and continue that journey on him.
But as you say, I was really happy when he went overseas and showed the world that he was a top class horse and he won another five group ones over there, which is not easy to do. He ran in an arc and he was running, think Aidan ran him everywhere. He running in the dirt in America. And he certainly didn't disgrace himself in any of his runs and as I say, tacked on another five group ones to his CV, which I was very not.
I of it, was just happy that the horse went and showed everyone that he was a really top class horse. Yeah, that summer autumn, he won the Eclipse, he won the Irish Champion Stakes, he went to the ARC, he finished fourth, back to the UK for the Champion Stakes, then to the Breeders Cup on the dirt in the Classic, he wasn't beaten far in that, he went to the Dubai World Cup the following year, finished fourth on that on the dirt, and then I'm pleased to see that he finished off for the win at Royal Ascot as well.
Idol Horse (13:48.462)
Tell us the story, I'm sure you've told it a hundred times before, about when he did go to Ballydoyle and you called Aidan up looking for the ride? Well, I actually didn't. was, yeah, was, there was show on Sky Channel at the time and think Andrew Bensley and a few of the boys were running the show and I did it as a bit of a joke. said,
I said, I rang Aidan, I did the actual phone call on the thing and said, I rang Aidan and I went through like said, Stephen Arnold here from Australia. Used to ride So You Think, like he had no idea who I was. So I went about it that way. So I never actually, never actually really rang for the ride, but you know, they've got their, they're locked in jockeys, which is, which is very understandable. But I was actually over there because I went and rode, I rode.
star witness in one of the sprint, or both the sprint races, the King's stand and the Jubilee. So I was actually there to see him run the first year he run. And he run unbelievably. He got beaten the last couple of bounds. I remember Ryan Moore come up to me after the race and said, I stuffed that up. I said, what do you He went very early, didn't he? Yeah. Well, he had a pacemaker, really, so you think, didn't really want a pacemaker, so you could dominate the race yourself. So he had a pacemaker. So they rolled along in a really true clip.
He sort of, he went home quite early on him and as I say, he said to me after, what did you think of that? And I said, well, I've got no real opinion of it. But he said, he said, I stuffed it up. He said, we'd been working him and we thought he was invincible. And I rode him like that. And he set it up for a horse. I think it was like a two mile sort of a horse who was strong at the end of it and picked him off late first up. So that was interesting from someone like Ryan Moore to say they'd been working him and just thought he was invincible and could do what he wanted.
Yeah, he got beat in that, he certainly didn't disgrace himself and after that went on to some pretty good things. Yeah, I always hear about Eclipse when he beat Workforce, who was a Derby winner and an ARC winner as well. So yeah, his legend grew internationally, say for an Australian point of view and for yours as well. I suppose it was a shame they didn't see him. But he's definitely, as you said, now he's at Stud, he's passed on all those qualities now to his progeny. Yeah, he's been really good at Stud, which is great to see.
Idol Horse (16:10.422)
I was not concerned, it's got not really anything to do with me, but he had that wind problem, so you're a little bit concerned that they can carry that through, but his progeny had been really, really good and he can produce a nice sprinter obviously, and middle to distance horses, so he's sort of covering all bases. He was a magnificent looking horse, you know, think if anyone sees the vision of him, they'll see, you know, he's a spectacular looking horse, one of the nicest looking horses I've ever ridden, so.
Yeah, he's passed that on to a few of them too. I still obviously see a bit of the progeny and he passes that on to a lot of them. You mentioned Royal Ascot before. It'd been an amazing 18 months because Scenic Blast was the year before, wasn't it? So you think about winning the King's stand. Yeah, exactly. I was lucky enough to I won a couple of good races on Scenic Blast. He won the Lightning and the Newmarket. Dan said, we'll go on.
have a go at Royal Ascot, which I was very excited about. It's really to go over and experience that. I felt very fortunate to be lucky enough to get a nice horse. Obviously our sprinters are pretty strong over there, so we knew we'd be a chance and he was a really good top class sprinter. So to go over there and win at the Royal meeting was real highlight of my career and life. It was a life experience, you know, go over and...
rub shoulders with the guys over there was unbelievable. yeah, was, I hold that pretty close to myself. Did you feel a certain amount of pressure in the sense that it was almost, there was a great deal of expectation around that era as well with, know, Swazia being takeover target, Miss Andretti. It wasn't, obviously a lot more to it than just turning up and winning, but the Australian sprinters in that era were definitely seen as, you know, the ones to beat.
Yeah, exactly. we had, as you said, there's some really fantastic sprinters going over and producing some great results through that period of time. So in one way it was a little bit of pressure, but in another way I knew that if he come in and produced his top run or his best run that he would be the one to beat in the race. it sort of gave me a little bit of confidence as well.
Idol Horse (18:26.51)
Kieran McEvoy was the one that suggested just even to come on and have a chat. And when we were talking, one of the races, and I like to ask you guys about a race that maybe you'd like a do over in. For him, was the Victoria Derby. I think he's had a couple of hard luck, he knocked over a couple of times. That's his bogey race. Can't get that one done. I think he said the AJC Derby as well. But is there one that stands out for you that you'd like to have another go at? Yeah, well, those days are over, so I won't get another go at it.
Obviously, to win a Cox plate was a great thrill, but I think everyone, when they start off, and I was born in a racing family and grew up watching The King and the Man and those sort of tapes sort of endlessly. So the Melbourne Cups, the race that everyone would love to win and I was a heavyweight, so I was a little bit restricted. I rode nine...
horses in a race that won the Melbourne Cup, but never on Melbourne Cup day obviously. Right. Yeah, so nine horses that won the Melbourne Cup in a race. I've sat on a few Melbourne Cups, but no, obviously not on that day. And some through weight and some through just circumstance. But I was contracted to Lloyd Williams and...
He had a fission going, obviously going for the Melbourne Cup and I come across and I was, I'd ridden a fission, he had three or four lead up runs. His last lead up run was in the Cox Plate to go onto the Melbourne Cup and I was locked in to ride him. And on the same day I won on a horse called Gallic, who was a really good old horse. He'd won the Adelaide Cup, he won a Sydney Cup and on that day he won the Moonee Valley Cup. And I said to Lloyd on that.
on that night or the next day, I think I'm going to swap and ride Gallic. And Lloyd was sort of, he didn't really know about it. He was a little bit half heart, a little bit half half about it. Cause I was a little bit disappointed in Efficient's run on the day in the Cox plate, which when you look back on it, it was actually a pretty good run, but visually sometimes the feel of the race, like they sprinted away from me and I thought I was good late, but when you watch it now, he was probably a horse crying out for the two miles. He just got left a bit flat footed and was good late.
Idol Horse (20:49.558)
Obviously on the day before the Melbourne Cup, Gallic was scratched. He got injured, sustained an injury, track work. So he was scratched from the Melbourne Cup. And I picked up a ride on a horse called Railings. He was a great old horse. He'd won a Caulfield Cup. But it was a few years before and he was big odds by this stage and probably didn't have much chance. I think someone had a fall that day. It might've been Greg Child. So I picked up Railings. So I was in the front, was in the front few of the race. He was an odd pacer.
As I said, I was 100 to one or 200 to one. So I started to fade out a little bit from the 400, 600 metre mark. And then I just seen the grey horse start to descend on them down the outside. that was, although I work with a team and it was great, it was a great day, won the Melbourne Cup. You've got, you know, I had to feel a bit disappointed that I wasn't on him on that day. So the Melbourne Cup's the one that I wouldn't say got away, but I would.
I was in the position a few times to be around it, never to grab it. Everyone says, I've got no regrets in what I did, but I'd say that's one regret. But it's interesting because he won the derby the year before. Was there talk of him running in the cup that year? There was. I think he was actually going to run. But obviously he had a light weight and I think maybe Craig knew it was going to ride him.
think he either sustained an injury or pulled up not perfectly after that. So he was scratched. I don't know if he might have accepted. I can't remember, but he was definitely the sorts of thing going to run it. And he was a fantastic stayer. Like you wouldn't probably like to see him over in the staying races overseas because he had great lung capacity and really a great stayer. And you didn't see the best of him until he got to that, you know, the Derby trip. He candid in the Derby and the Melbourne Cup. Also, I just...
I would sort of temper it a little bit by saying he used to go really good for Michael Rod. Michael Rod's a beautiful rider and I think he used to go better for Michael Rod than he went for me. So whether on the day he would have won, I can't say that for sure because as I say, I reckon he used to go probably better for Michael than anyone. So you can't be completely sure he would have won with me on him. Well, it's a great story anyway. You reckon?
Idol Horse (23:12.366)
Well, great story for us, for you so much to really live out. I can imagine, as even going past, you'd know straight away. Yes. And you catch the big screen, sort of first of all, you sort of see the big screen on the left-hand side of you, obviously, and you see the bunch, and I could just see the blue colours with the white cap and the grey just starting to really extend down the middle. yeah, was mixed emotions, you might say. Those are sliding doors moments though, isn't it?
make a choice and it changed Michael's life I'm sure. Exactly right yeah and as I say he used to go great for Michael and he's fantastic writer and a great person so certainly wouldn't take anything away from Michael. Well thanks for sharing all of those memories as well you certainly got me as far as that. I remember the story because the Aidan O'Brien story so I think the payoff line was so you're telling me there's a chance or something like that was the line from Dumb and Dumber wasn't it?
Exactly, said, exactly right. said, I was on the phone, said, like he obviously says, about a million to one. I said, yeah, you're telling me there's a chance. then I think I said to my wife, hey, I'm a chance of going and riding, so you think over in Europe. So it was, yeah, was a bit of a, it was a bit of a setup. But yeah, anyways, what a great horse. Absolutely.
We'll let you go, Stephen, but not without maybe suggesting a future guest for us as well to get on. Yeah, I don't know if you've had Michelle Payne on, I thought you'd able to get her on and have a chat with her. She's obviously got, when we talk about big races, she's got one of the best stories you could possibly have, I'd say. So I reckon she'd be a great one to have a chat to. Yeah. A few people might know it already if they've watched the film, but we'll... Some chance, yeah.
We'll try all the same. Well, again, many thanks, Stephen. Thanks for sharing that. Really enjoyed the chat. Absolutely. Pleasure, Andrew. Thank you for joining us as well. Don't forget to like, share and subscribe to make sure you never miss an episode. Leave us your suggestions for future guests too. That's it for now, though. We'll see you next time on The Race.