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Welcome to the Turkey Talk Podcast, presented by Bass Pro Shops. Join us as we dive deep into the world of turkey hunting, where we sit down with industry experts to explore the art, science, and passion behind this beloved outdoor pursuit. Each episode is packed with insightful conversations, tips, and tricks to help you enhance your turkey hunting game. Whether you're a seasoned pro or just starting out, The Turkey Talk Podcast is your go-to podcast for all things turkey hunting.
Hey, this is Rob Keck, your host on Bass Pro Shops Turkey Talk. Thanks for joining us and I can tell you everything is happening right here, right here at the Winchester Museum at the home of the National Wild Turkey Federation. Today we're going to be talking about bow hunting wild turkeys. We're going to talk about equipment, poundage, broadheads, where to aim, how to set up, success for hunting out of a blind or using decoys, running and gunning, and a whole lot more. Well, let me tell you, we're in the last trimester of the spring season in many parts of the country. May and the first couple days of June, well, that's one of my favorite times, favorite times of spring. And in many parts, those dominant gobblers that were all hand up earlier in the spring, they're waking up lonely and they're wanting to come to the call. And those long spurred gobblers, well, let me tell you, they're a lot easier to call then than they were back in March and early April. Well, today we are talking about bow hunting and I don't need to tell you what a challenge it is. I know for many that have tried it, you know, especially if you're a runner and a gunner, hunting without decoys, it is probably the supreme challenge, I think, of bow hunting, anything. Your adrenaline's pumping, your nerves are fraying, you're trying to stay concealed and hide that movement to make the shot on a nervous bird that just doesn't ever stand still, at least not for very long. And then ultimately making a shot that is going to immobilize that turkey, immobilize and anchor him. And sometimes that just takes a feat of magic. Well, with me today is a guy that can make that magic happen. He does it regularly with ease. I've hunted with him, I've seen him in action and I'll tell you what, he's a devoted conservationist, accomplished bow hunter, taken big game from around the world. He's an avid, avid hat hunter that puts so much more back than he ever takes away. He's an outdoor television host, he's founder of the Grand National Bow Fishing Championship. He's a business owner that manufactures one of the finest line of bows that are out there. I know him as a cracked turkey hunter with a bow and there are few that are his equal. So please make welcome my good friend, John Paul Morris. JP, welcome to Bass Pro Shops Turkey Talk. Hey, thanks Rob. It's a pleasure to be on here with you today. Hey, I'm excited to talk a little turkey too. Well, I know you've been out. I know at the casting blast, your dad was texting me from the blind, you and RC, Richard Childress. Tell me a little bit about that. What was that like being in there with two icons and here you are trying to make it all happen for them. What was that like? Well, you know, my dad's an icon but he's also my dad so that one's pretty easy. But certainly with Richard, you know, it's always great being around him. Both of them are great conservationists and have done so much for not only just, you know, habitat and traditional conservation but just promoting the sports of hunting, angling and how hunters and anglers have such a positive benefit on all of society's, you know, interaction with the outdoors through their conservation efforts. Yeah. So anyway, to go out with those two, you know, I took them out. We went to the same place, the same little field last year, the three of us got to go hunt together. So this is kind of been a couple year running trip and it's kind of funny. It's kind of like the grumpy old man a little bit. It's funny seeing the two guys. Good friends. You hear them sit there exchanging stories by the tree. I'm trying to get them to be quiet because I could hear the turkeys. But it's just a hoop being around those two guys. And we had so much fun this year being together from the first gobbles before daylight. We had a bunch of jakes come in around the blind and Richard made a great shot. We had a single tom come in pretty silent, you know, which early in the year, like you were just talking about within, they can be a little tough after they get off the wind, but it sure was fun. Well, that three letter word has got to be part of what we do in the great outdoors. And for those don't have fun, they usually don't come back. And, you know, part of that fun is here in Turkey's gobble, see in turkeys. And we know that in some parts of the turkeys range, those numbers are down someplace like here in South Carolina, they're way down to the point, you know, some of the state agencies, they've backed up on their seasons, they've reduced bag limits. And, you know, it's it's something that all of us are concerned about. How have you find how have you found your turkey numbers there in Missouri and maybe anyplace else? I think maybe you were in Florida. What have you seen where you've been? Well, Rob, you know, as I talked to a lot of hunters from around the country. I think just like you said, there's pockets where turkeys are doing just great. I think we're the right habitat and people are working on managing some of the predators and leaving the right type of nesting habitat that the hens need to be successful. I think you see numbers doing well. I think you also have pockets around the country where, for a variety of reasons, the turkey numbers are struggling. And I think you see hunters are starting to raise their hands and say, What can we do to help, you know, the turkey population in our area? I know Florida seems to be pretty strong on their turkey numbers. But as you get into the eastern range of turkeys, it seems like there's a few more tough spots that we've got to look at and see how do we adjust seasons to give the gobblers a little more chance to breed before we open up for the year for hunting? How do we look at maybe reducing some bag limits? I know in Missouri, we just recently lowered down our fall season this for this coming fall. So the states are just taking a good look at how they can do their part. Sure. Well, Bass Pro Shops has really taken the lead in trying to find some answers to these declining numbers and have been very supportive with the research that's being done with the National Turkey Federation, Turkeys for Tomorrow. And the Outdoor Fund Board has made it a real priority in the last two years and a major commitment of dollars. I mean, huge dollars, something that we don't hardly ever see committed to research in one fell swoop. Tell us about that commitment of the Outdoor Fund to that research, JP. So the Outdoor Fund at Bass Pro and Cabela's is one of the coolest things that we do. And it's an avenue for our customers to make small donations, small roundups on their purchases at Bass Pro and Cabela's and all those dollars go to conservation. We see that over 98 dollars out of 98 cents out of every dollar goes to conservation or actual projects. It's not being spent, you know, administrative fees and stuff like that. This money is really going to make a difference. And we look at our customer base and we try to find initiatives that our customers are passionate about. No doubt we've been long term supporters of the National Turkey Federation, a lot of other great conservation groups that benefit turkeys. But we felt like our customers were raising questions about, hey, what's going on turkeys in my area? Why are we seeing these declines? And so we earmarked over the last two years, it's a million dollar pledge between the last two years, five hundred thousand dollars over the last over this year and last year. Say that again, say that again. I don't want anybody to miss that commitment. It's huge, JP. It is huge. It is huge. And I think we feel very comfortable and we're proud to put those dollars out there for research because it resonates with our customers. They care about the resource. We care about the resource. And it really helps these conservation groups get this really important research done and not just in one area. You know, in the past, I've seen I live in the Midwest. I see a ton of turkey studies in the southeast on, you know, pine timber plantations and other things. But sometimes I feel like I don't see as much research for my neck. And so I think what's really cool about this is these research dollars are going throughout the country. So not just in the Midwest, not just in the southeast. Really, they're taking a pull across the different habitat types, see what can we do? What's happening to the turkeys? And the one great thing is that we have a lot of really passionate, really smart people out there that are focused on we all care about the resource. We all love the resource of the wild turkey. And so I think we can all rest assured that we've got a lot of smart people that are all looking out for the resource. So the future is bright. Well, it is. And, you know, one of the important things that that needs to take place, though, after the research is done, is actually put it to work. And that's one of the challenges that many of our state fish and wildlife agencies have because of limited budgets. And that's where these nonprofit groups, conservation groups like the NWTF can provide additional assistance. They can provide not only money, but manpower as well, because these management practices are going to be extremely important to try to supplement all the different things that the wild turkey is faced with. And I mentioned NWTF. And of course, I am right here in the Winchester Museum of the National Wild Turkey Federation. Before we go into bow hunting wild turkeys, there's word out that this great, great museum might be moving to Springfield, Missouri, possibly at the wonders of wildlife. Is that something that might happen? Yeah, I think it's something that we would we would love to see happen. And we're working on right now because it's such a great museum with so much history about the wild turkey from the Native Americans through the early days of hunting and market hunters and all that stuff, and then a great conservation story and a comeback of the wild turkey here in America. And so we're working on a great place to bring the museum to Springfield. You know, we really feel like Springfield is kind of becoming a hub for conservation between the Wonders of Wildlife Museum Aquarium, NRA Firearms Museum. We've got the fly fishing Hall of Fame, we've got Bass Fishing Hall of Fame, Pope and Young got a lot of really, really great experiences for the outdoorsman to come learn more about conservation and what I mean, what better story is there than the comeback of the wild. You bet. Well, I've oftentimes heard it said that this is the conservation crossroads there in Springfield or the conservation capital because of all the different conservation illustrations you have through the many groups. And of course, it was recognized the aquarium there Wonders of Wildlife National Museum and Aquarium, what five times, five times by USA Today, tell us just a little bit about what that means to you to be recognized in such a way. And I think it's been like five consecutive times as the leader. Well, you know, it's a reflection of our people. And the all the effort that our company over the years has put into conservation and with help from our customers, just to showcase of these great success stories, but also here are new challenges we're facing. And one of our biggest pillars in conservation, we have three main pillars, but one of the biggest ones, the most important to me is inspiring new audiences. How do we get the next generation of hunters, anglers, just campers, our next generation of wildlife managers, how do they get inspired about going outside and today's day and age with all the electronics and iPads and everything pulling on you as a kid in sports, we have this great experience for kids to go to Wonders of Wildlife and learn about animals and learn about the habitats they live in. And so what's great every time I go in there, the majority of our traffic I see is young families. Yeah, those are planting seeds with the next generation and just being able to tell the story of the wild turkey there, I think would would be a difference maker for generations to come. Well, there you go. Everybody that's watching, listening, make sure you put it on your travel schedule. I've got five grandchildren all between the ages of 10 and 14. I think it was like five years ago, had them all at the Wonders of Wildlife. That was our summer vacation. And I've asked him every year, where do you want to go to next? We want to go back to the Wonders of Wildlife. That's how much they enjoyed it. And if you're going to go, you better budget at least a day, but there's no way you can take in everything that happens there in just one day's time. So anyway, my hat's off to you, your dad, and I've had a little part in that as well in the past. And it's one of the great, great marvels, I think, of this country as we look to pass along the great conservation story. Well, so much about that. Let's talk about bow hunting for turkeys and the equipment. You know, there's a lot of guys out there saying, okay, I've killed them with a shotgun and I'm ready to move on now to a bow. And if you open up the Bass Pro Shop catalog, there's a lot of different bows in there. Why don't you get it started? I mean, what should that hunter be looking for when he goes to pick up a bow that he wants to use to hunt turkeys? Well, here's the great thing about turkeys when you're bow hunting is you don't have to have the fastest bow. You don't have to pull a ton of drawing. I think what's important to look for in a bow is something you're comfortable with, something that you shoot well, that fits you. You know, if your draw length is too long and then you go kneeling down or you go leaning up against a tree and try to do it, it's going to be really difficult to do without drawing a lot of attention. So a lot of times ahead of turkey season, I'll actually turn my bows down. I would prefer for my arrow not to pass through the turkey because that's energy that's being wasted at going into the ground on the other side. And so I think the main thing for people out there is get a bow you're comfortable with. Most of my shots on turkeys in the spring with a bow are inside 30 yards, the majority actually probably inside 20 yards. And so you don't have to be, you don't have to shoot a long way. The biggest challenge when it comes to bow hunting, in my opinion, is trying to figure out when's the proper time for me to draw my bow back without
and aiming in the right place. And I hear so many different things from people about, you know, where to aim, everybody has their own opinions on a bunch of different things. So I'll be going through a bunch of different things that I like to do personally. And some people might disagree with me, but I've spent a lot of time in the woods over the years bow hunting turkeys because I'm a very passionate bow hunter. And I've screwed up a bunch more than I feel, but I've been lucky to harvest quite a few of my bow. And so I'd be happy to kind of walk our listeners through kind of step by step process on, you know, how should we be thinking about bow hunting turkeys? How do we need to prepare differently? And then there's several different tactics, which you kind of touched on when you were introducing today's episode. And those different setups make a huge impact on what type of equipment we need to use to be the most successful. Well, you know, JP, I've talked to some very accomplished bow hunters that said, uh, this has been a real learning experience that, you know, they, they grew up hunting whitetails and they always said, shoot for the vitals and you can blood trail to find the deer. That's not true with the Turkey. If you shoot for the vitals, we're talking about shooting to immobilize. And the number of times I've heard guys say, man, I made a good shot. I thought it was a good shot. And the Turkey runs off, he flies off, ultimately dies, but he can't retrieve him. And so we want to eliminate that from happening. And so as you take us through this process that you go through, give us, you know, your insight, knowing that we want to be able to, when we shoot that Turkey, we want to be able to go out and pick it up after the shot, not have to go hunt for it. As I know there's, there are people watching and listening saying, man, I've, I've shot through a number of them and couldn't find them and made a good hit. Cause you just can't blood trail it unless you've cut somewhere in that head and neck. So take it away from there, JP. Yeah. Well, you know, it's, it's the most sick feeling you can have as a hunter is to not recover an animal that you could shot. And so if you bow hunt enough for turkeys, it'll happen to, but if you learn it, use it as a learning tool, you know, and you get better for the next time, then you can really be successful. A lot of this comes down to where are we aiming and what kind of brought head are we going to use? So I think the easiest way that I would recommend for somebody to get into bow hunting turkeys is to hunt with like a pop-up blind or out of a permanent kind of ground block. The negatives to that is you can't be as mobile. You can't see as well. Maybe you can't hear as well, but the benefits are if you leave most of the windows shut and you leave it pretty dark and a pop-up blind, you know, you can get away with a lot more movement.
And a lot of times when I'm placing my decoys for bow hunting, they're usually between
three yards in front of the blind to maybe 15 yards in the blind. So I'm keeping the decoys really close to you. And you think about how well turkeys see movement. So when they get within that range and you move it all, they're going to pick it up. But in a ground blind, you can get away with a lot of movement. One thing that's crazy different for people that they need to learn between turkeys and deer is that if I go put out a pop-up blind for deer and I go put it out there, I could spend an hour brushing it in, put grass everywhere, it leaves sticks and make it look great. The first doe that steps out there is to look at, stomp and blow at me. And it's like, why did I spend all that time? But with turkeys, most places, I'm not going to say they don't get wise to blinds in a few places, but in my experience, a lot of places you can go put a pop-up blind out in the middle of an open field, against a timbered line. On the golf course. On the golf course with no brush on them and the turkeys don't seem to mind. It's like they pick up movement so well, but the blind doesn't bother. And so for hunters that are going to use a pop-up blind to put your decoys really close, once the birds get within, call it 10 yards of the decoys, a lot of times I notice their attention stops going from everywhere around them to this narrows in just on the decoys. And that is a huge advantage for a bow hunter because now their attention is only on these decoys and you've got a chance to draw without them seeing. When you go to hunt out of a ground blind, you get two different choices for broadheads. One is like a decapitation style broadhead and these would be a really big cutting diameter, you know, two to three inch cutting diameter, some really big blades and you only aim at the neck, you know, at the base of the head and neck. And so the bird needs to be inside, call it 15 yards to be really effective with that style of broadhead. You need to shoot a full length arrow, so full 32 inch long arrow to keep the broadhead out in front of the riser away from your hand, away from your sights and rest. And a lot of people will run fletchings, either full length feather veins on the back of their arrows or they'll actually put them on there with a lot of helical, which means the arrow will spin really fast, help some fly straight. And so when you're hunting with those style heads, you know, you're getting the turkey in close and the beauty of those is that it's either complete miss or the turkey drops right there. Yep. I haven't really seen any, you know, turkeys hit with one that went off and died off in the distance, you know, it's it's all or nothing. And so that's a good feeling as a bow owner. Plus, it's a heck of a challenge. Like you said, they're always moving. Yeah, one's head off. It's very ethical, but also it's a heck of a challenge. So that's one route to go, but it does require some special setup, like the longer arrows to buy some special broad heads. Now the other option is to shoot an expandable. And I know people have mixed feelings when it comes to expandables for deer, elk or other big game. But when it comes to turkeys, there's no doubt in my mind that an expandable broadhead, especially with a large cutting diameter, two inches or bigger, it really helps immobilize the turkey because all the energy from the arrow is stopping with the turkey. You do with a fixed blade broadhead that'll pass through a deer and you shoot a turkey with it's going in one side and out the other sticking in the ground. And so I like to shoot these large diameter cutting diameter mechanicals. And where do we aim? And there's a lot of mixed feelings out there. But where I can tell you most people that feel like they've made a good shot, and the turkey runs away and they never find it, it's because they shot the turkey too far forward in the breast. And I've actually harvested turkeys or clean turkeys at some other hunters harvested, where I actually saw that familiar triangle cut of a broadhead where another hunter had shot it through the breast and the turkey lit. And I mean, a little gross, but they're tough. I mean, it's not a vital that's gonna kill the turkey. And so if you're gonna hunt with a regular broadhead like a mechanical, if you have a side profile shot on the turkey, my favorite place to aim is to follow up the leg straight up into the body. And you want to go just at the top of where you envision their drumstick would be right where their leg meets their line. And that seems to be a very effective way of immobilizing turkeys because they can't use their legs to jump off the ground to start flying. And they have a much harder time running off the vitals on a turkey about the size of a grapefruit. And so if you hit those vitals, a turkey will run less than 40 yards and a lot of times less than 15 yards before they tip open. They succumb very quickly through a good shot through the vitals. My favorite angle, a favorite way to shoot turkeys is actually when they're facing away if they're out of strut. If you can hit a turkey in their back, there's so many muscles that come together and their back bones and their vitals are in a line. And over the years for me personally, I've been a bow hunter, I'm much more likely to miss up and down because of an unknown yardage or otherwise than I am left or right. So I feel like with turkey space in a way, it really lines everything up that you need to hit to immobilize that turkey and makes it easier on you to make a good ethical shot. Absolutely. I couldn't agree with you more. On the fixed blade,
like a gobbler gill at what, what length of a cutting edge do you like to have? I mean, I know that it becomes a challenge the longer you extend that head, but what, what do you, what, what have you found works best? So when I'm trying to take a turkeys head off, or I'm trying to immobilize them right there with a gobbler guillotine or a Magnus bull head, there's a lot of different varieties out there. There's actually some new companies over the past several seasons that have been coming up with, you know, new broad heads specifically for this, this tactic. And I think what I've noticed is that I'm trying to get the turkey in so close to me that maybe arrow flight isn't quite as important as it might be if you're shooting at 30 yards or a little further. And so what I look for is kind of the biggest cutting diameter I can get a lot of times actually when I hunt for elk or deer, I shoot 100 grain broadhead. But when I go shoot turkeys, especially with the decapitation style, I will actually up my broadhead to 125 grain just because it's a larger cutting diet. And an old trick that all the old gobbler guillotines used to come with little thin plastic drinking straws. And if you take those straws and put them over the blades, you'll get much better aeroflight. And when your arrow hits the turkey, it'll cut right through that drinking straw no problem. But because you don't have a sharp edge now the air is traveling just like an airplane wing around that straw, your air will fly so much better. And so I'll actually take those cut down, you know, where the straws are only this long and put them on each of the blades. And it's a gang chain. Wow, that that's a great tip. That's awesome. I haven't even thought about that. Do a lot of times too, when I go out to hunt if I'm in a hole with a guillotine, like my setup is, it's hard sometimes to carry out a bunch of those guillotine arrows, quiver too, because the diameter so big blades are really sharp. And so they are what I'll do a lot of times if I'm going to go specifically try that is I'll have my quiver full of regular arrows with mechanical broadheads. And I will take one or maybe two of those special arrows with me to the blind. And that way, the downside also to trying that tactic is that if a turkey comes in and busts you draw on at the last second or gets wary and it starts moving away, you know, the regular arrow you can change like I can shoot at the body now. With those style broadheads, you can't do that. So you really need a good clean shot at their head. So when you commit to that, like you really have to go all in. Yeah. It's also very messy when you go to carry that turkey out of the woods. What you do to keep the back for your legs from getting all covered up. Yeah, you definitely, but that's a good thing, right? That means the turkey didn't go anywhere. So I've oftentimes heard one of the best feelings that you can have your clothes on as a way to that dead gobbler's head cut in the back between your thighs. And, you know, the second best is when you can feel the blood going right through to your skin. So you know you made a good headshot, but do you shoot with a stabilizer when you're turkey hunting? You know, I do. And one reason that I do is we have a partner, we sponsor some for a TV show stuff, Heartland Bowhunters. Really good guys out of Kansas City. And they actually build a really cool little tripod for your bow. And it goes between your stabilizer and your riser. And there's two carbon legs. I think they're carbon arrows that are cut down. And it's adjustable. So if you loosen your stabilizer, you can use those to set your bow down while you're in a blind or while you're running and gunning. Man, I will leave my stabilizer on there. It's not very heavy. It's not a very big one, but it's helped put that on there. And that's another little piece of the turkey hunting game that if you don't want to move and you might have to sit there for 30 or 40 minutes while he stretches way into you, sometimes a small little thing like not having to hold your bow can make all the difference. Absolutely. That was in my list of notes to ask you what kind of additional piece of equipment really helped make it. I think that one's absolutely critical, especially if you're running and gunning, because as we all know, that turkey doesn't always come in there just on a string. It may take a while till he gets into the shooting position. Yeah. Well, when you talk about running and gunning, obviously that game's a whole lot different than sitting in that ground blind. What advice can you give? Because obviously he is,
you know, you're not, you're not camouflaged like you were in that blind. And to make that draw on the turkey, you obviously have to do it when that turkey's head's behind a tree or has his back to you or something like that. Talk to us about that. Okay. So there's two kinds of styles. When I say running and gunning, it might mean, hey, it's mid morning, we're trying to strike up last minute gobbles, we're walking through the woods and just sit down and set up. But I also kind of call that hey, in the morning, I might just be going to a spot to set up. And I might know, hey, as I'm a bow hunter, a lot of times I'm wanting to use decoys unless it's mid morning and we're in the woods. Sure. So a lot of times I'll build just a little bit of a makeshift blind, I might lean a couple of big limbs up against the tree I'm going to lean against something to break up my outline a little bit, put the decoys out there, you know, that 12, 15, 20 yards from me, and set up in a spot where I know I can be comfortable and not have to move. Because if you're going to be sitting there a couple hours, my knees go to sleep, my legs, the next thing you know, like I'm trying to stand up and fall over. So a lot of times I'll set those up, we sell a great little chair. And I know a lot of times your turkey hunters wear turkey best and I have one that has back support. That's great. But we have a really super low profile chair and it keeps your butt maybe three or four inches off the ground or keep you dry. And it makes it easier to draw your bow than sitting flat on the ground. Absolutely. And so a lot of times in that little setup, I'm setting my chair up to get ready. And that way I can be totally motionless and be comfortable so that I can make that shot when I get the opportunity. As a bow hunter, I'm right handed. I can always shoot better to my left than I can way to my right. Sure. Same thing if you're a right handed shotgun shooter, right? You set up on three straight on where they're coming. Absolutely. And you're going to have a hard time spinning around without a lot of movement. So I typically set up on the right edge of the tree facing dead with my decoys off my left shoulder. That gives me the full range of motion to be able to draw and make whatever shot I need to.
So often I see somebody just going to set up just like they would turkey in with a shotgun straight back against the tree facing dead on. And it's hard to draw your bow if you don't have leverage. Well, I can tell you anybody that does that with a shotgun is not putting themselves in the right advantage. I mean, I always say put your left shoulder if you're right handed shooter, right at the decoy where you expect you're going to kill the turkey. And same thing with the bow. Same thing with a bow for sure. So those two little points of having the chair and having that rest, I think are two really critical things. And that chair also helps you remain motionless. Because if you sit on the ground, I don't care if you're on a pad, if you're on 10 inches of pad, you're going to be moving around a lot. And a lot of times that turkey isn't goblin when he's coming in and he's going to pick up that movement and you're going to be screwed. I mean, you just are not going to be able to do it. So.
And then as we start thinking about, all right, we try that set up in the morning, right? All right, we're set up in a little blind at the decoys out when do you draw? There's two ways that I've done it. So if I'm on the edge of the field, and there's no trees in front of him going between, you know, a tree in his face is not going to happen very like and I've become a very big proponent of using male decoys in my setups when I'm bow. So it could be a Jake decoy, it could be a full strut Tom decoy, depending on what you think the bird numbers are like, what you see your cameras or just how you feel like what stage of the breeding season. But you brought up a key point about them facing away from you. And so what I found a lot of times is that a gobbler will come in and face your decoy. And so if I'm using a full strut decoy, I will almost always 100% of the time face that decoy toward me face on. Because what happens is that turkey comes in, he'll come around the side of the decoy and he'll want to come face that decoy straight on. As soon as he turns his back to you, especially if he's in full strut, you've got a great opportunity to draw your bow. You bet. And like I said, they're focused when you get within a 10 foot circle, the decoys 100% of that turkey's attention is on that decoy because he thinks he's about to go into combat. And so he's so focused on that, that's your one opportunity to be able to get away with drawn back. One thing I see a lot of people do is that they get really nervous, right? I mean, we got I get excited as anybody when I got a turkey. But you get a big gobbler and it comes in your decoys and people get in a rush. They want to draw their bow too early. They rush the shot because I think the turkey's gonna see him. And so my advice would be chill out. If you're in there with the bow, sit back and enjoy the show. And you have to take the opportunity to get them every turkey's different. But when they come in, you know, if you weren't sitting there and you didn't move, that turkey's probably going to mess with those decoys for a couple of minutes or longer, or longer. And so I feel like that having that peace of mind to say, you know what, I don't have to be in a rush, I'm going to wait for the perfect time to draw. And once I get drawn, you're not moving until you let the arrow go once you're drawn. Yeah. And so if you can get drawn undetected, you can take your time to aim, you know, and make sure you get the perfect shot. Yep. And feel good about it. Well, then you brought up rotting and gunning, right? So now let's say we strike out at that spot. How are we going to go be successful bow? You know, it gets harder and harder. You don't have any kind of blind, you may not have a chair. My favorite setup, probably the one that I've had more success with than any other when bow hunting turkeys. Ideally, you have two hunters, you have somebody that can help call behind you. And then you can set up in front. And my favorite thing to do is set up on a road or a long opening. And what I like to do is pick out a really good piece of cuff, maybe a cedar tree, it could be a hay bale, it could be some really thick grass, something that I can hide behind. And I will actually put my decoys behind me on the road. So my goal is to be off to the side where I can see the turkey enough coming through the brush that I can get drawn. And his attention is looking past me down the road at my decoys. Yep. And ideally, you have somebody calling back there. And that's been a really, really successful tactic because you have enough of a heads up to see some movement coming through the tree to get drawn. He can't see enough of you to see you drawn back, right? It could be another turkey could be in, you know, but it gives you that chance to see him come in and get drawn back and pull right into an opening where you get a good clear shot. Yeah. I also in that case, and this is true with shotgun hunting as well, running a gun and I'm going to wear a 3d leafy jacket, at least, uh, I think anything to help break up that hard line, that hard edge, uh, is, is really helpful. How about you? How do you, how do you dress for, for that situation? So a lot of times when I'm out chasing turkeys, I'm usually just wearing lightweight camo pants and a camo t-shirt tucked in for ticks. And then I'm wearing, you know, maybe a quarter's that maybe just a t-shirt in my turkey best. I keep a square piece of just leafy material. And I actually really like to cover up my legs. So a lot of times when I'm bow hunting, you all sit, whether it's Indian style, if I don't have air, got a term, sit in my legs in front of me, I'll drape that over up above my belt line. And I feel like then if you only have this little area, right, it's going to help you get past it. Good point. Um, and so really the main thing though, is just not getting caught moving. If you don't move, you can get away with a lot. Oh, absolutely. As soon as you move, you're done. And, uh, you know, another thing that's really important anytime you're turkey hunting, but even more so with a bow is if you sit back from a hundred yards and watch somebody set up in a turkey spot with a decoy, the first thing you're going to see are their hands and their face. And so even more important, bow hunting, then with shotgun hunting, make sure you're wearing a face mask, maybe you put on some face paint. You know, we duck hunt, we'll burn a cork like an old wine cork or something. Put that on her face and knocks down the glare. But when you're done, it wipes right off. So you don't have this cake on. Right. Um, but that's a big difference maker for turks. I always cut my, uh, trigger fingers and thumbs out of my gloves too, just so I keep that feeling and I can know where things are. Yeah. No, no doubt. When you look at the size of that hand, I mean, it's every bit as big as your face. And, uh, I see so many hunters that for whatever reason, they just, they don't take the time to do it, to cover it up. Uh, when you're running and gunning, you take a decoy. You said you like to take male decoys like a Jake. You're probably not carrying a big 3d strutter. So what, what do you carry them when you're mobile? I mean, covering some ground. So it depends on a lot. If I think we're going to be hunting in the woods or in a field, I found in the woods over the years of my experience, at most I'll use a hen decoy a lot of times, if I'm going to be set up in the hardwoods or something, because the gobblers already coming from a distance and he's hunting, looking for that hen. And I've seen them, you know, as soon as you get birds that get a little weird around a Jake decoy or a gobbler decoy more so in the woods, sometimes in a field. When you get on the edge of a field or you're more of a Savannah type habitat where it's open, I feel like the gover decoy with the tail fan or Jake decoy gives you a lot of visibility. Yeah. And it might pull that bird in from a longer distance. And it also brings them in much faster. I feel like when you have a male decoy, a lot of gobblers still running in there. They're fighting it, they're attacking it, which can be great. So you're not overly tired and shaken by the time you get there. But also it makes it sometimes harder to get a good shot, you know, and they're not always in strut when they're coming into a decoy like that. A lot of times I find if I use like solo in decoy, if I'm patient, let the gobbler getting close, a lot of times they'll have a really slow approach. Absolutely. Strutting. Yep. And they'll give you that really good opportunity where they face away from you in full strut to be able to get drawn back to be able to get a good shot. Now you're absolutely right. I mean, when they lock onto a hen decoy, sometimes it can take forever for them to get in. I mean, they're just pirouetting around, they're strutting, they're slowly coming in. They're not running like they're coming in after a Jake decoy.
Well, if you go into Bass Pro Shops or you look through the catalog, Spring catalog, and you look at the decoys, I mean, there's pages full. You've got aisles that shelves that are full.
Do you have a favorite? You know, there's so many great looking decoys. You know, we still sell a bunch of those old foam $5 folder. Do you really? Oh, wow. Amazing. We'll still kill turkeys with those things. Yeah. But if you look at today's decoys next to those, it's unbelievable how good they all are. They're a work of art. For me, I'm not an expert, but when I use hen decoys, a lot of times I like feeding poses in my hens. Me too. I like really submissive looking hens. They're not excited. Their head's not up like they're alert, like something's going on. Unless maybe I'm putting one down in like a breeding position with a jade coat, then I don't mind being up just so turkeys can see it. So I think about that. One of the decoys I use honestly use a ton. You asked me about what kind of decoy I would use if it was a male decoy for running, gunning. And I got a Mojo scoot and shoot decoy a couple of years ago. And it's just the front half of a strutting decoy. It's pretty lightweight. It has a really great carry handle. And what I really like about it is it has a great stake for sticking to the ground. So if I need to use that decoy to get across a little opening from a few hundred yards away without them seeing me, or if I want to just get out there really quick and stick it in the ground, it's really rigid metal. So it's not going to fall over. And what I've actually done is I made a couple of modifications. So I put a real tail fan on it like everybody does that, you know, as a turkey hunter that has a tail fan or two sitting around. But the other thing I did is I took a set of wings off a turkey that I killed a couple years. And I dried those wings out, I cut in the pocket, shooting just like a little bit of tail fan and and boraxed it. And I actually zip tied two real wings on my Mojo decoy. So now I've got this really big decoy that will allow me to kind of get behind it and draw my bow or hide two hunters behind it if we need to. It looks very realistic. And so those just little mods that hunters do to their their equipment that the turkey might not notice, but if it makes you feel better about it, then then it's worthwhile. Yep. I think your dad sent me a picture, the one that you guys used when your dad and RC and you were hunting at the cast of blast. I said, he was telling me about the turkey was sort of keeping me apprised of what was happening. I said, send me a picture, one of the turkeys, send me a picture of your decoy. And it's pretty cool. And I think it's always neat when you can modify it and you put your own touch, your own creation to it. You know, I'll take a lot of times I'll take just a tail fan and I'll take like a 300 Winchester short mag and I epoxy it or Bondo it upside down. Now it's an empty cartridge to the base of that tail. Then I'll take an arrow, take like a carbon graphite with a field tip on, I'll cut about a third of it off and slide it up into that empty shell hole. And when you put that in the ground, the slightest breeze will just make that thing move, you know, like a Mojo would. And, you know, it is absolutely deadly. And it's another thing you talked about walking across an opening and trying to maybe hide your move using that tail, you know, that that's another variation you can can do. And I take that many times with me when I'm, you know, when I've got other decoys as well. When you're back at that ground blind setup, how many decoys do you use there?
It depends on the situation, what I've been seeing for turkeys in the area, how many turkeys I think they're around. If I've got plenty of room, you know, if I'm carrying the blind and a chair and my bow and decoys, I might pair it around and do a single hand and a gobbler jake decoy depending on the time of your work. If I've already got the blind out there and the chair out there, you know, put it out the week before whatever, it's easy to get to a lot of times I'll take like three decoys, I'll run two hands and one gobbler jake decoy. Something you touched on there that's interesting about how you rig up your fans is this little trick I've done for a long time. And you know, anybody that's a bow hunter has a ton of old arrows laying around that's missing a fletching or, you know, you splintered a little bit of the front of a carbon arrow, you can cut it off, or you can use old crossbow bolts. And so what I've done is now all of my decoy stakes that I use my bag or old crossbow and what I really love about that is on a calm day, I'll stick it fletching into the dirt and I'll put my decoy on top of it so that it can spin in the wind. But when you get one of those really windy days, it's going to be, I don't want my decoy blowing around in circles and everything. And so I'll flip that crossbow bolt upside down, where now the fletchings are sticking up. And when you put your hand decoy on it or your gobbler decoy, it will hold it in place, not sitting there spinning. Man, there's your there's your tip of the week on Turkey Talk here at Bass Pro Shop. That's a great, great idea, for sure. Go back to a point you made about the fletching you use and the length of the arrow, about a longer arrow. Somebody may have just tuned in and they're asking that question. Very important. Just give us about arrow length and fletching again. So yeah, so just the whole setup with my bow, if I'm going to hunt turkeys with a mechanical broadhead, honestly, it's the identical setup that I use to bow hunt for deer. My arrows are very much in the middle of the range on arrow weight. I'm shooting small blazer veins with not much offset. 100 grain broadhead trying to get as big a cutting diameter as I can really focused on my shooting at 1020 30 yards rarely going to be taking shots of turkeys past 30 yards, at least in the types of setups that I like to go for. And you know, you can shoot your regular arrows that you shoot day in and day out. Now, if you want to try to take a turkey's head off by using a gobber guillotine or a Magnus bullhead or a different arrow like that. I do like to use a full length. So if my draw links 29 and a half inches, I use a full 32 inch long arrow and that'll put the broadhead you know, a couple of inches out in front of the riser. It's away from your fingers. It's away from your bow sight. And that's been very helpful. And then on those broadheads, because you put another big wing up in front, it's going to steer your arrow. And so to have the most success and get the best arrow fly, you want to add more drag to the back of the arrow. So if you could put more offset on your veins, or if you can shoot full length feathers, or if there's actually some companies now that are making arrows specifically for these types of broadheads that have feathers with a ton of helical and helical is when the the fletching has a bunch of curve to it, right? Make your arrow spin just that much faster. And you'll get better arrow flight. Well, when I open up my spring catalog,
I see pages full of ground blinds. And you know, ground blinds have really changed the game when I started turkey hunting. I mean, I never knew there was a ground blind. I don't even know if they were in existence back, you know, in the 60s and 70s. Certainly guys weren't turkey hunting out of them. Well, they've come a long, long way. And you've got some of the finest right there at Bass Pro Shops. What is your choice? What what would you recommend? You guys got his bow, he's got, you know, he's got all the equipment, his arrows and what have you. What blind do you like best? All right, so if we're talking about a traditional pop up blind, and we're talking about bow hunting turkeys, I really love our entire lineup of blackout hunting blinds that we sell. Our team works on these to design them. They've been out a long time, they they're really great hunting blinds. It's pretty much all I use. But there's a couple new options that are actually really great too, because historically, if you're gonna leave a pop up blind up for very long, especially in the spring, get a lot of storms, you get a lot of windy days, next thing you know, it's in the neighbors field out there floating around. And so we sell a couple of blinds now that are like a hybrid between a pop up blind and a full on hard sighted, you know, deer hunting. And I've found these to be really great. One is our blackout blade and bullet. It's a it's a really nice size blind, you can fit two or three people in there. It's got a metal frame on the inside. So it's a little more rigid. And it's something that you could put up and leave up the whole year, where you can put up and leave a month and you don't have to worry about it, you know, blowing off or in and out of where you can crud breaking rods. And so we also have a hay bale blind version of that. And, you know, it's great multi purpose, you can use it for deer, they don't seem to mind the hay bale blinds much. And obviously, for turkeys, you could put it anywhere you want. Both of the turkeys range they're used to seeing that stuff.
How about chairs? There's a lot of different options there. And when you shoot out of that blind, are you shooting sitting in the chair? You standing up? You? How are you? Yeah, most, most of the time, I just use a really simple tri fold camp chair. I mean, they're not the most expensive chairs. If you know you're going to be sitting there all day long, you know, maybe get a more comfortable chair. But for me, you know, just a small fold out camp chair is great for a ground blind. You just want to be kind of middle of the road on height.
Turkeys don't mind blind. So you know, if you want to use one of our really big ones, we have like a blackout, I think it's a 300. It's huge. I mean, you could fit your whole family in there and go hang out. And, and it's really comfortable that way. Gives you tons of room, the turkeys don't mind it. Another cool little blind that actually a guy that works for us, JT came up with, who's a great turkey hunter, it uses the same rods as a pop up blind. But it's actually just a short it's about two foot tall. And so if you're going to be sitting up against a tree, but you want to be able to reach for calls around your lap, or we're gonna be able to make moves down below, it folds up pretty small. So you can kind of run and gun but still have some support of a blind. And then we touched on some chairs earlier that we sell that are really low profile
hunting chairs. And those are super great, not so much for ground blinds like pop up blinds, but if you're going to be in a brush blind, or just be sitting against a tree, those are really great options for staying comfortable and hit.
Do you shoot through the blind or you shoot through the window? You know, with some of these, you know, 360, I mean, visibility, man, you know, you feel like you're in the wide open yet, you know, you stand outside. And of course, you can't see you shooting through that blind or you shooting through the window. The key to remaining hidden in a ground blind is to not let too much light come into the ground. The darker it is inside the blind, the more movement you can get away with. You've only got one window open, you can be moving your hands and moving around and drawing back. And they're not going to see you start to let more and more light in, you get more opportunities for turkeys to catch move. And so I would say that I like to open up the windows toward my decoys big enough for me to be able to get a good shot. I'm not a big fan of shooting through mesh. I think if I keep it dark in the blind, the mesh is only going to help a little bit. They're not going to see me anywhere. Right. You brought up an interesting point on the new blind technology that's out there that allows you to see out of the blind everywhere and the animals not to see it. And it makes for a really great turkey hunting experience. Because one of the things that we all don't like about hunting in a ground ball is that you can't see as well as when you're sitting up against a tree. And so by using these new style blinds, you can really see them coming from the side. You can see them coming behind you, but you still need to be a little more cautious with your movements because as good as they are, if it's bright out and there's some sun, I think they can still pick up subtle movements. Yeah, pick up it like that shadowy movement that's that's behind there. You know, there's a lot of guys out there my age, the baby boomer age, it says, man, I've had rotator cuff surgery and I can't pull bow back, but they don't want to use a shotgun. So they're going to go after a crossbow. Give us your thoughts there on what they might consider. Because I know that you've got a wide line of crossbows at Bass Pro Shops as well.
Yeah, no doubt. Well, you know, crossbow hunting is becoming more and more popular across the country. States have taken a much different approach to crossbow hunting over the past 10 years than they have historically, maybe even the past 15. And I think it's great, you know, it's more opportunity for more people to get in the woods and enjoy it the way they want. Absolutely. And also for people that don't have all the time in the world to practice or somebody that has a health ailment or can't draw back the enough poundage to be successful, they can take a crossbow out there, have a great time, and, you know, have success in the field, which is what we want for everybody at the end of the day. We sell a ton of different crossbows from, you know, your entry level $300, $400 crossbow all the way up to, you know, several thousand dollars for a crossbow with all the latest bells and whistles. There's been a lot of technology change over the past few years in crossbows as well. And the limbs are getting narrower and narrower and narrower. And so they're getting smaller. So it's actually easier to carry them around through the woods. It's not much different than carrying a shotgun. And there's some great options out there now for tripods. There's a company called BOG that we sell a lot of great gear from in our stores. And they have a tripod with a clamp on top. And I've used this, it's really great for youth hunters. So my little niece's nephews, and I've taken them in their first turkey hunts, I'll put a little 410 in there. And it's great because they can move the gun and aim it. But the tripod is always there if they let go of the gun, it's not going anywhere. The tripod is holding place. And so that's another cool thing now with crossbows is you could put them in there and have them ready. You don't have to hold it and be tired the whole time. You know, it's a lot of the same setup supply, crossbow hunting as you would bow. You don't have to be quite as concerned about movement. But certainly you want to get the turkeys in close, use a big expandable broad head if possible. And, and you'll have success with a crossbow too. You know, there are some states that open before the regular gun season. They open to bow hunting. And it's a real opportunity that, you know, I don't think nearly as many people take advantage of is what they could. I mean, you're the first guys in the turkey woods actually after them. How many states do you know of and what states are they where that takes place, JP? You know, a couple that come to my mind right off the top of my head and, and, or Nebraska, Kansas, and I know we chatted about this briefly and you probably came up with a couple other turkeys seasons for archery that open early. What were those? Well, Kansas, Nebraska, there's one that comes after the gun season close, California. Okay. And, you know, there's, I've done a search on that. There's a number of them that actually have an extension of, of a bow season after the fall gun season. And so that's another one. In fact, some of those are going to January, which, you know, I love hunting, hunting those gangs of gobblers, those bachelor groups of gobblers in January, wherever you can, you know, if you've ever seen a gobbler come to a Jake decoy or strutting gobbler decoy, and you know how he'll run, he'll attack it. Well, it happens that way in January as well. In fact,
instead of just one or two coming into that gobbler decoy, you may have 10, 20, or I've had them. Well, I remember Dave Appleton, one of the guys that filmed for, for Bass Pro Shops television. We were in Kansas, the end of January when Kansas still had their fall season into January. And there were over a hundred long beards that came in at one time. And he said, Rob, I've hunted with everybody on the pro team. He said, I've never seen anything like that ever. And it, it was just, just a lot of fun. So I would advise anybody out there that, you know, wants to extend their bow season or really have a jump on things, get online, look at each one of those States, and you're going to find some sleeping opportunities there that very few people are taking advantage of. And especially if you're brought up, go ahead. If you love hunting turkeys, you know, late in the season into May, and I do too, but also at the very beginning of the season, it's also really, really great time when they're looking for the first few minutes. And so it's like Kansas, I've been lucky to go over there and bow hunt for quite a few years in a row now. They have a special turkey season opens the first week of April, usually. And it's so fun to go over there that time of year, the goblins are still pretty grouped up. You have a lot of times, you know, maybe not 10 or 12 of them together, they've started breaking up, but you see groups of three and four and five early in the season like that together. And like you said, you can get a whole heck of a lot of fun out of it. Yep. And it's just an added opportunity to get in the woods, especially if you're going to go hunt public land, or, you know, areas around Corps of Engineers lakes, places that are open to everybody to go, you get a jump on all the competition that you're going with above. Sure. You know, another opportunity is that in some States, uh, when the deer bow season is open, it's also open for Turkey. Can you give us any tips when shooting at a Turkey from a deer stand?
Well, in Missouri for a long time, we've had a fall shotgun season where you could harvest two turkeys and a fall archery season where you could harvest two turkeys. And that archery season ran with the deer season. Um, so I've harvested quite a few turkeys in the fall over the years where I was deer hunting and had turkeys come by me. Turkeys are always looking up. So if you're in a tree stand, it's very hard to get drawn back. You better hope it's a windy day and you got lots of limbs around you and maybe they're not paying attention, but it seems like the more eyes you get and you know, the calmer it is out there, it can be really difficult in a tree stand to get drawn back. Um, that's a challenge. And then, you know, where do you aim? It's a lot of the same conversation as when we're on the ground, but now you might be taking 20, 30, 40 yard shots instead of 10, 12, 15 yard shots. So it adds a level of difficulty, but I really like to get them facing straight away from me if they're out of strut to shoot at them. I think by far that's the most consistent best way to shoot a deer. Sure. Well, you told us a little bit about camo when you're running and gunning a lot of options in that spring catalog as well. Tell us a little bit about, uh, you know, I see that TC up there on your cap or TT true timber camouflage. Tell us a little bit about that because I think turkey hunting drives camouflage. I mean, that's where it started with Jim crumbly way back with tree bark. And, uh, I mean, you guys have it going there at fast pro. Well, thanks for, you know, we got a lot of great people over true timber. I mean, they're super passionate about hiding hunters. People having success out in the field and you know, it's been really cool to see the evolution of camo over the years. I mean, it's, it's really changed. It's gotten a lot better. I mean, it's HD camo. It looks really sharp. Most of the time we're talking about deer hunters. I think sometimes we're selling hunters more than we are the deer on the camp for sure. But what it comes to turkeys, because they see in full color and their eyesight may be one of their best, you know, senses. You've got to think about what am I wearing? And it's not only about hiding from the animal or the turkey in this case, but it's also about being comfortable through a bunch of different conditions. And I've been lucky to hunt turkeys, you know, in a lot of different states, a lot of different areas. And I've been on hunts where I was freezing my, you know, it was about freezing out and I've been on turkey hunts where it was 90 degrees and you're wetting and it's miserable and there's ticks. And so, you know, something I really pay a lot of attention to increasingly more and more all the time is ticks. And a lot of people I help with are more and more focused on tick-borne illnesses, viruses are on the rise. It's more and more common all the time. And so all this plays in when I'm picking out what camouflage, what clothing I'm going to wear. The last couple years I've been wearing our Cabela's Instinct camouflage, as well as some of our Cabela's and Redhead hunting gear.
Most of the Cabela's and Redhead stuff is in True Timber Strata. It's a great pattern. It's really versatile. It's straight in the fall, it's straight in the spring. It blends in great, not only up close, but also from a distance. And then VSX is the new pattern on Instinct. And it's been equally as good. It has a little bit more green in it, which I actually really love for the spring turkey season. And a lot of times I like to layer. I've been lucky to hunt out west where you're being very active. I like to put on some miles when I'm out there if they're not talking. And so I like to wear a pretty lightweight pair of pants. We have several different options, depending on kind of what you're looking for. We'll have them in the store so you can go touch and feel them and see what works best for you. But I like to wear lightweight pants. I like to tuck those into my boots. So I'm either wearing rubber boots if I'm at home, if we've been getting a lot of rain or maybe crossing creeks. If you're going to be on the miles, rubber boots are always the most comfortable. So we have some really great snake boot options that I really encourage people to go check out because it's like the versatility of a rubber boot. You can go walk through the creek and stay dry. But if you've got to go hike a few miles, you still have that foot and ankle support that you need to stay comfortable. And tucking your pants into your boots will save you a ton of ticks. Absolutely. I also try to tuck my shirt into my pants at all times. So I will wear a t-shirt either under my camo if it's cold out or if I think I'm going to be only wearing a t-shirt, I'll tuck my long underwear or my long sleeve t-shirt into my pants. And I treat all of my clothing before season with permethrin. And you can't put that on your skin. So you're going to want to spray your clothes, go put them on the back porch, go put them on the bed of your truck, spray them down really good, let them dry. And I've sat right next to somebody and I can't tell you how many blinds are up next to a tree. And they go, Oh, man, here's a tick. Oh, man, here's another tick. We get back, you need to check for ticks. How many did he find? He found two or three bit them. I get back to camp. I haven't seen a tick all morning. I don't pull any off of me. It makes a difference. And if you're going to spend a lot of time in the woods, I highly recommend for your safety, taking those precautions because it's amazing how few ticks that I have on me throughout the course of a year. Yeah. Up in Virginia, I think there's a half dozen game wardens I know that have been bitten by that Lone Star tick. And they can't eat red meat. And
those guys crawling around on the ground trying to do their job at nights. And I mean, they're in the ticks and you don't want to get Lyme disease, all those that you're talking about.
You know, you've been inspired, I know by a number of people, most certainly your dad, but when it comes to bow hunting, I remember some early days down in Florida, we rode around down there and got the name of Jimmy Ryan and some others that, that I know had an impact. There was another guy that I had the pleasure of fishing with, hunting with, had him at the NWTF convention. It was Fred Bear. And I remember your dad putting together some of the things for the Archery Hall of Fame, their Bass Pro Shops. Tell me where your inspirations have come from, JP and bow hunting. Well, you know, I've grown up around the outdoors since I was a little kid. I mean, I've been going out in the hunting blind. I've been out on the fishing boat since I was in diapers. It's just part of my life that I've grown up spending in the outdoors. And I think I got my first bow when I was like six or seven years old, first, you know, legitimate bow. And I just fell in love with it. I can't tell you how many arrows I lost. I mean, I would just fling arrows, I was like most anywhere and everywhere, but I loved it. It was just something so fun about shooting the bow. And Jerry Martin, great guy, he's worked for Bass Pro Shops for a long, long time. He's retired now. But Jerry was a big mentor of mine in the outdoors. And I remember he got help give me set up with my very first bow and a bunch of arrows. And so that really fueled me just getting into it. And then I met Jimmy Ryan. And Jimmy Ryan was on a pro hunting team for a long time. He was a coal miner from West Virginia. And Jimmy's just got the biggest heart and he is a killer. Yeah. And he's great about instilling you with confidence. You know, you cannot be shooting well. And he'll walk over behind you and not change a dang thing, but tell you how good you're shooting. The next thing you know, you're shooting really good because he gave you the confidence to sit there and you know, and let it go. And so getting to travel over the years with Jimmy and go hunt different places, you know, really got me hooked on bow hunting. A lot of my turkey hunting, I grew up in Missouri, a lot of it like on a family farm and go out there and hunt either with friends or even by myself. And a lot of trial and error, you know, I love to bow on. So the more time I can spend in the woods, the better. It's not always about killing a turkey for me. It's about going out and having fun. I love taking other people. And it's been pretty cool too, to see you know, turkey hunting is one of those things that I truly I don't have to be the one that pulls the trigger. I'm just as jacked up to sit right behind you and watch you do it. Yep. So I've been able to take some friends, some other people with a bow that have never bow hunting for turkeys, they may have killed dozens of turkeys with a shotgun and to see how excited they're getting jacked up about it. That's really, really cool. JP, I know you're a new dad. It's got to be exciting. And I know you're thinking about maybe the first time you take him to the woods. Tell us what it feels like. Tell us what is going through your mind because I know you're going to introduce him to the outdoors hunting and fishing, just like you growing up, like your dad grew up. Tell us about that. Tell us about the obligation that you feel in passing on this great hunting tradition. Well, it's super cool being a new dad. You know, my dad always told me other other people had told me, you know, you'll never never understand it until you're lucky enough to be a dad yourself. And it's a really cool feeling. And he's been the best little dude so far. So it's, it's been a great experience. And yeah, I'm already looking forward, you know, right now, he's just a month old today. So he's not doing a whole heck of a lot. But I like hanging out with a little guy. But yeah, I'm already thinking about the future, you know, how do we get out there to looking for the times we do get out there together and go hunt go fish. You know, I got a lot of nieces and nephews. And it's fun seeing them now they're all getting to the age where they're starting to go enjoy the outdoors, they're fishing, they're hunting turkeys, they're having fun. And so yeah, I'm super excited one of these days, hopefully, God willing, we'll be able to have some of those same memories together. You know, no matter what kind of hunting it is, what kind of outdoor pursuit it is, it's always great to get a turkey or to get a big buck or to catch the big fish. But the end of the day, if you do it by yourself, and you're not out there with your friends and family, you're not having fun with your buddies, like, you know, it doesn't mean as much. And so I think the more more you do it, the more important those memories become. And, you know, I love taking other people turkey hunting or getting them introduced to the outdoors, because I take it for granted, I've done it my whole life. So many people don't have the opportunity to get out there. And if the tough thing to go do if you don't have any experience, it can be very intimidating. And so to be a mentor to somebody to get them excited about hunting, to get them wanting to go outdoors, and open their eyes to this whole new world that's out there, they didn't even know anything about is so special. And I guarantee you the little bit of time you take off from your own hunting, or your own fishing, or your own self time to take somebody else out, you will get repaid way more in return and enjoyment and seeing them get hooked on these same past times that we love. JP, well said, I was going to ask you for a final thought, but you just wrapped it up right there. Anything else you'd like to add before we close out? Now Rob, we just thank you for all the great work that you've done over the years for conservation of the wild turkeys that we love. And we thank you for, you know, helping host this podcast that's going to hopefully inspire and educate the next generation of turkey hunters, or just give the current one a few helpful tips to maybe be a little more successful. And I just appreciate your time and effort to the resource. And it's been a great time getting to chat with you for a little bit and look forward to doing it again sometime soon. Well, JP, thanks for your time. Thanks for the passion that you shared to so many people that you touch and you interact with. I look forward to the next time we can go out on a spring morning, watch the sunrise here, a whippoorwill on a bar down, a turkey goblin in response. And as I've oftentimes said, it's the gobble, not the gobbler that makes spring turkey hunting so special. JP, thanks for answering the call that called a conservation, that rich call to preserve our rich hunting, fishing and trapping heritage folks. We'll see you next week for another great show right here in Bass Pro Shops, Turkey Talk. Make sure you hit the subscribe button and watch our other episodes to stay up to date on all things turkey hunting.