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Killer Quote: "Everybody wants to avoid a price war. In an industry like this where margins are razor thin, you can't afford to go down. So let's all focus on adding more value. You add more value, you find a way to add more value, customers will find a reason and willingness to pay a little bit more. And, you know, our side is let's raise the bar rather than lower the bar." - James Hogan, Partner at Simon-Kucher
Looking to lead, grow, and stay ahead in the trillion-dollar global chemical industry? The Chemical Show - the #1 business podcast for the chemical industry - is your go-to resource for leadership insights, business strategies, and real-world lessons from the executives shaping the future of chemicals. Grow your knowledge, your network, and your impact.
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Welcome to The Chemical Show, the
podcast where Chemical means business.
I'm your host, Victoria Meyer,
bringing you stories and insights
from leaders driving innovation and
growth across the chemical industry.
Each week we explore key trends,
real world challenges, and the
strategies that make an impact.
Let's get started.
Victoria Meyer: Welcome back to The
Chemical Show Where Leaders Talk Business.
Today I am speaking with James
Hogan, who is a partner at Simon
Kutcher and who is an expert on
pricing and customer behavior.
James, I wanna let you know, is
going to be one of our featured
panelists at the Chemical Summit,
which is held on September 30th
and October 1st in Houston, Texas.
If you don't have your ticket yet.
You better hurry up and go get one.
Visit the chemical summit.com
for that.
But James is gonna be part of a panel,
um, and bringing his wisdom and insight
from working with companies across the
chemical industry and industrial companies
around pricing and customer behaviors.
And that's what we're
talking about here today.
So James, welcome to the Chemical Show.
James Hogan: It is a pleasure to be here.
I'm looking forward to being
on the panel at the, uh, at the
beginning of, uh, the month as well.
Victoria Meyer: Absolutely.
So tell us a little bit about yourself.
What's your origin story and how did
you get interested in this space?
James Hogan: Absolutely, I
would call it circuitous.
Uh, in, in both, in, in a
couple of different ways.
So we moved back and
forth across the country.
I grew up in Rhode Island.
I got an undergraduate degree at
the University of Notre Dame, a PhD
in chemistry at the University of
Southern California, and then worked
as a chemist, uh, as a bench chemist
in, in southern California doing some
biotech, pharma and other related work.
After that, um, decided that I
wanted to be in the business side of
chemicals, uh, maybe not necessarily
at the bench my entire life.
Decided to go back and get
an MBA at the University of
North Carolina in Chapel Hill.
Did my, internship there while at
Bristol Myers Squibb, and then decided
to go into consulting to kind of
broaden out even a little bit further,
since I joined Simon Kutcher in 2016.
Have focused really in building out
our chemicals practice and supporting
our chemicals customers so circuitous
in both back and forth across the
country now located in Atlanta, Georgia.
But also, you know, circuitous in
that, uh, you know, a couple, couple
different routes in a trajectories of
my career and, and now helping build
the chemicals practice in the US.
Victoria Meyer: I think that's cool.
And I think what's interesting with this,
James, is there is a lot of business
leaders that have a technical background
that, you know, spent some period
of time as a chemist, as an engineer
doing something really technically
oriented, but also recognizing that
they wanted to do more in the business.
And I think this aspect of having
that science and engineering
background actually gives you really
good grounding in what's ultimately
a really technical industry.
James Hogan: It is.
And I think that one of the bonuses,
and I say this about my PhD program, is
it's, it's a degree in problem solving.
And that's the same thing
that we do in consulting.
We are hired in projects to
go and solve very difficult
problems for our, for our clients.
So having that technical
background, we have
people from all walks of life,
you know, within our firm and,
you know, across consultancies.
The desire to solve problems, the
ability to structure and break down
a problem and figure out what's
best for our clients and for their
customers is, is what we do every day.
Victoria Meyer: That's awesome.
I love it.
So tell us just a little
bit about Simon Kutcher.
James Hogan: Sure.
We are a, a global consultancy,
founded in bond Germany in 1985.
Um, at that point it was
a pricing consultancy.
We have since grown, our second
office globally was 1995 in Boston.
Um, as we broke into the US now
we have over 40 offices in 30
countries around the world, we
are focused entirely on top line.
We say we are on the
sunny side of consulting.
We want to help co help companies
grow and unlock better growth.
And you know, one of the words you might
hear me talk about is sustainable growth
as well, something for the long term.
Our background historically
was in pricing.
We very quickly moved into sales,
marketing strategy, digital enablement.
Um, we are everything top line
and we want to help all that.
Uh, we help our customers with all that.
Victoria Meyer: I love that.
And in fact, his, um, especially in
the current market environment, people
probably run away when they see, uh,
consultants sometimes thinking it's
gonna be slash and burn, but staying
on the sunny side is a good thing.
James Hogan: Absolutely.
Victoria Meyer: Yeah.
So let's talk about the
current landscape, right?
So 2025, heading into 2026, yet
another year we're maybe we're not
super happy with where the chemical
industry is, but what do you and your
clients see as some of the biggest
challenges facing chemicals today?
James Hogan: Ever changing, uh,
the current problem today or the
current challenge today wasn't the
challenge yesterday and it might
not be the challenge tomorrow.
Um, so we are trying to stay
on our toes in everything that
we do and stay out in front.
I think that, you know, a couple of
things that jump to mind for me are.
The, the regional differences
in these industries?
Just understanding that the US and the
America is very different from Europe,
very different from Asia Pacific.
Things like even like distribution
channels, uh, completely different in
the way they operate in different areas.
So figuring all of this out over
the course of the past five years
has been an ever-changing dynamic.
Supply chain issues seem to have
gotten a bit better since 20 22, 20 23.
But capacity issues are still kind of
out outta whack here, and there's been
a bit of an uneven demand recovery over
the course of the past several years.
Sustainability is a big challenge.
Um, we, we see that in different
ways in different regions.
In Europe, for example,
there are, it, it is.
Much more regulated and people are
willing to pay a premium for sustainable
solutions in the US People are
interested in sustainable solutions.
Uh, pricing still matters.
Um, and especially when you're
talking about that scale.
So in, you know, and then in, you
know, other parts of the world,
sustainability is still catching up as
an opportunity and a, a value driver.
So one of the biggest differences
that we always think about, and, you
know, we, we go to conferences like
this and we talk about chemicals
in this macro environment, it.
Really, if you wanna boil it down
just a little bit, commodities
versus specialty chemicals.
There's a world of
difference between the two.
How we, how we think about the, you know,
the pricing and the customer service
of, you know, bulk acetone being shipped
versus, you know, new multi-component
composites for EV batteries.
Um, you have very different approaches
to kind of commercial service and pricing
and everything that goes along with that.
Victoria Meyer: Yeah.
that's, I think that's a great point.
In fact, I recently did a, a podcast a
couple weeks ago about, um, of reflections
on second quarter earnings and what
companies are saying and how this.
Plays out for the industry right
now, and as we head out to the end
of the year and into next year.
And, and I agree with you, there's
a stark difference between specialty
and commodities, and I think there's
this aspect of resiliency that,
specialties are able to harness
in ways that commodities are not.
And it's, you know, the very nature of
commodity versus specialty in many ways.
James Hogan: Yeah.
One of the things that we will, we,
we, regardless of industry, whether
it's the chemical, the industry, or
selling widgets from manufacturing
company, people worry about commodities.
We can't do anything with pricing.
I will sit here and say, I don't think
I've found a complete commodity yet.
There is always opportunity and there's
things like better lead times, better
technical support, um, you know,
slightly better quality or reliability,
your technical support in the field,
uh, if I didn't mention that already.
So there's a lot of opportunity
even on the commodity side.
But it really comes down
to going beyond price.
Thinking about how else can you
build value for your customers?
Um, and then, you know, naturally
they'll be willing to pay for that.
If you make somebody's life easier,
there's going, there's a, there's
something that they will pay for that.
Victoria Meyer: Yeah, I mean, so I
think that's a great segue and we talked
about, you know, pricing is a lot of
times a key lever for profitability.
You'd like to stay on the top line.
James Hogan: Mm-hmm.
Victoria Meyer: But it's not the only one.
So can you walk us through what
some of those other levers are
and maybe how they've, um, are cha
are changing, I guess, currently
versus where they were in the past?
James Hogan: Yes.
So I will say that the way
that we look at things, we are
a, we, our legacy is pricing.
We do think it's the most valuable
lever, and one of the things that we go
through is if we think about pricing.
Victoria Meyer: I.
James Hogan: Variable
cost, fixed cost or volume.
If you were to have a 5% optimization
in each of those areas, the one
that's gonna give you the biggest
bang for the buck is pricing.
'cause it falls straight
to the bottom line.
And you know, not getting too
technical of things like elasticities
and stuff like that, um, there's
a biggest opportunity in pricing.
That being said, price is
how do you store value?
How do you count value?
So when you think about what.
How can you work with your customers?
How could you get more price?
It's about creating more value for them.
And one of the things we do with
all of our client, almost all
of our clients, is we do both an
internal and an external validation
of what we'll call value drivers.
And so it's what do they care about
when they're making a purchase?
And the price is obviously one thing.
It is almost never the number one
thing when he gets down to it.
The quality of the product, the
reliability of the product, technical
support, lead times during COVID
went to number one for most people.
Didn't matter what the price
was, just gimme the lead time, or
sorry, quickly following COVID.
and then the one that is
really often overlooked is the
relationship with the sales team.
Um, it's, you know, having that
relationship and that trust is the
most important thing you can have
when you're in a business that.
It is often selling, you know, large
deal contracts and you know, you've gotta
make sure that somebody's there for you.
So all of these things really go together.
And you know, one of the interesting
things is if you look internally
and then you talk to your, like
our client's customers, there's
not always complete alignment.
And it's really enlightening sometimes
when a sales person is gonna say,
price is the only thing that matters.
And the customer says, actually,
that's fourth or fifth on my list.
I need to know that you can get
me the material when you have
it, and you're gonna be there to
support me when it gets there.
Victoria Meyer: I agree.
And, and I think it's, uh, it, it
sometimes seems like, feels like an easy
lever to pull, but as you say, especially
in the current environment, Business
is always competitive, so being able
to harness other levers is critical.
And I just think back to my, my
time in, in corporate, whether it
be at Shell or Clat, and there.
were times we said, Of course, you know,
everybody's delivering on spec and of
course our quality is all the same.
And then you, you dive in a little
bit deeper and you find out, no,
that's not necessarily the case.
Or, you know, the spec is big enough
to drive a truck through we stay
James Hogan: Yes.
Victoria Meyer: tight in a certain area,
which certain customers prefer not.
So I think, more depth and not just
accepting the fast answer and the
assumptions becomes pretty critical.
James Hogan: It is funny when
you talk about specs there.
We've done some work recently with some
process chemical companies, and to your
point exactly the the spec is one thing.
Delivering the bare minimum is
one thing, providing extra value.
Again, going above and beyond,
um, people are willing to.
Companies are willing
to pay more for that.
And you know what this really
comes down to is everybody
wants to avoid a price war.
In an industry like this where margins are
razor thin, you can't afford to go down.
So let's all focus on adding more value.
You add more value, you find
a way to add more value.
Customers will find a, a reason and
willingness to pay a little bit more.
And you know, our side is, let's raise
the bar rather than lower the bar.
Victoria Meyer: Yeah, so,
so sometimes value can feel
like a profit killer, right?
So, um, you know, I think about
this and the easy thing to say is.
Well, sure I could do more for
my customer, but that's costly.
do you combat that point of view?
James Hogan: Yeah, absolutely.
And we actually, we run a similar
exercise where we understand
or we want to understand.
What do the customers care about?
And then how do you perform relative to
your peers in each of those categories?
So you want to stay, we call it the
consistency corridor, where the value
you're providing matches the importance.
Of your customers and you know, if you
find yourself providing more value or
a lot of value and investing in areas
where your customers don't care about,
let's pull some out of that potentially
and and reallocate to something where
you find out your customers care a ton.
And maybe you're not doing well.
Absolutely.
Or you're not doing as well as your peers
and reallocate some investment there.
So whether that's actual financial
investment, whether that is resources
internally, whether it's marketing, pr,
something like that to, to just make sure
that the value you're providing to the
clients matches what they care about.
That's, that's number one.
Because people want to come down to am I
getting value for the price I'm paying?
Victoria Meyer: All right, James.
So you and I both know that, each of
us, you know, if, if we are sitting
inside of a, a chemical company, we
have certain things that we think, of
course the customer hugely values this,
and then we find out that they don't.
And this whole idea of backing away.
Uh, and I'm sure you guys get into
these conversations of, how do you
get people to change inside of a
company, let's say, to change their
behaviors or the, the own values that
they apply to a certain attribute,
a certain service level, et cetera.
does that play out?
James Hogan: There's change
management is not easy anywhere.
Um, and that works inside of our
clients works when you're trying to
talk to other customers and you know,
oftentimes it is really outlining.
Quantifying where you can, again, we come
back to a bunch of technical people in
the chemicals world where you can assign
numbers to something that's gonna help.
So when you can say, when you can show
somebody, if you do this, you will
realize these types of process gains
or this type of financial impact, or
your NPS score is gonna go up a little
bit with your customers if you do this.
All these things that you can
try to ascribe a number to.
It is really beneficial in this industry.
'cause that's how people,
Victoria Meyer: Yeah.
James Hogan: Overall,
really think about things.
Victoria Meyer: So are there any
surprises in terms, I mean, it sounds
like you guys have done a lot of
conversations, a lot of surveys, a lot.
Are there any surprises that come up
occasionally or regularly in terms
of what customers do or don't value?
James Hogan: I think going.
Going back to the fact that price
is normally third, fourth, or fifth,
again, the salespeople are almost
always gonna say it's number one.
It really comes down to
the quality of the product,
Victoria Meyer: Yeah.
James Hogan: technical support
you're gonna give and provide,
um, is a big one nowadays.
And then, you know, things like lead
time have generally been consistent.
It spiked right after COVID.
It's come down a little bit in since then.
And then, you know, again, back to the.
Uh, the relationship with the
sales is, is, is really critical.
And the last couple things I'll throw
in there is if you are selling across a
broad product portfolio, understanding
whether your customers care that
you have everything or that you have
five different versions of one thing.
So do you want to go broad?
Do you want to go deep?
You know, where, what is your value
proposition for your customer?
And can you clearly define that
when you're going through that
Sales process is really critical.
Victoria Meyer: Yeah, that's a good point.
So.
How has it changed over time?
So, you know, I think, when I think
about pricing strategies and pricing
models, at one point in time, and maybe
still in some parts of the industry,
things were heavily formula-based.
Or, you know, sometimes
they're value-based or you're
negotiating every order.
Are There any big shifts that
you've seen in terms of just the
pricing strategies and approaches?
James Hogan: There has been a
major shift over the course of, I
dunno, the past 10, 20, 30 years.
The goal, the unicorn is
value-based pricing for everything.
What is the value that a customer
ascribes to this product?
What is kinda the maximum
they're willing to pay?
Um, that makes sense and that
doesn't apply everywhere.
Um, I go back to kind of selling a.
Bulk acetone and it's going to be a, you
know, a, a x amount, dollars per ton,
um, or, you know, whatever it may be.
And it's very cost plus.
And you add on freight, you add on
a couple other things, and, and you
get that it's formulaic over time.
We switched a little bit
to toward index pricing.
It was a little bit more transparent,
as an index went up or down.
Everybody understood
that it moved that way.
That got complex over time,
multi-component formulas, um,
you know, things become opaque.
Um, and if you don't have a good
relationship, again, back to that,
it's an easy way to, you know,
maybe not trust the other side.
Um, if things become complex,
you know, as we move now toward
value-based pricing, understanding
differentiation of your customer
set, you know, is somebody willing to
pay more or less because they're in.
The Northeast versus the southwest.
Different end markets, um, you know, OEMs
and cars for, you know, electric vehicles.
You know, have a different value that they
can pass through to their customer for
certain inputs and, um, products versus
somebody else who may be buying the same
inputs to, you know, to lithium batteries.
There's a lot of different things that
have moved, but definitely moving toward
value-based is important for pricing.
It also creates a shift in sales.
The, the old days of there's an
index and or it's cost plus you
can be an order taker and you know,
somebody calls you and says, I need.
300 tons of this, and you can
say the price is, you know, x.
Nowadays, especially in the chemi,
especially chemicals world, when you're
trying to, you know, innovate regularly
and add more value for your customers,
you've gotta be able to sell that value.
You need somebody that
knows the product well.
You need somebody that can go and defend
that value and explain why the ROI
for that purchase is higher for them.
So it's creating a, a
larger commercial shift.
It's not just pricing, it's hitting a
bunch of different functional areas.
Victoria Meyer: Yeah, I mean, it sounds
like it's gotten more sophisticated.
Would you, how does the role of
distributors play into this, right?
Because that also adds a different
dynamic versus when you've got a
producer, consumer formulator relationship
versus, um, bringing a distributor.
And now of course, some of the, some
distributors are, uh, sole sourced, right?
So they're dedicated to a particular
company and product line and,
and how they structure it, and
others are making decisions.
Somehow that's always been a little
bit of a mystery, to be honest,
um, across other various producers.
How does that play into this?
James Hogan: Yeah, I, you,
you kind of hit it, right?
There's a couple of
different things at play.
One, the exclusivity factor
can help or hinder distributor,
um, in going to market.
But you, the real key in kind of their
position in the value stream is the
ability to reach a bigger audience than
a manufacturer could themselves and.
A different manufacturer.
You know, the, the, the scale that
they have or the sophistication they
have, you know, they may wanna work
with different types of distributors.
Some are, you know, buy my
product, add a margin, and sell
it wherever you want Others.
We really like to focus on is there
an opportunity for co-op marketing?
Let, let's kind of blend the
value stream a little bit.
Have the manufacturer working
hand in hand with the distributor
to explain the value prop.
You know, especially if you're a
distributor of specialty chemicals,
Distributors don't always have
technical knowledge to nearly to
the degree that the manufacturer
or the the innovator actually does.
So do you need a, a, you know, technical
support and, you know, support up and
down that value chain, um, in order to
deliver that product to the customer?
So identifying what you want a
distributor to, to do, is the key here.
I think the third, the third
part that we've seen recently is.
You're actually the manufacturer
selling to the end customer, and you
are only giving the distributor a
margin just to facilitate the logistics.
So again, a whole bunch of different
ways you can work with distributors, but
they're an absolutely critical aspect
of this industry because you've gotta
get product from plant to customer
and uh, nobody knows it better.
Victoria Meyer: Yeah.
Great.
Um, what about digital?
Like, you know, we are living in a
digital world, I gotta be honest.
Um, I was sleepless, sleepless
this morning at 3:00 AM on Amazon
making a couple of purchases.
Um, not so easy to do in
the chemical industry.
And yet we know that
digital has a role to play.
What role are you seeing digital playing?
When we think about pricing and value?
James Hogan: Yeah, that the
term digital is so ubiquitous
and all encompassing nowadays.
It's very difficult to
narrow down what do we mean?
And I think that it's especially
tricky in the chemicals industry where.
You know, it tends to lag in technology
and innovation in that regard.
I think we are catching up in a number
of ways and there are some ways that
are clear we can't fall behind further.
Um, or else you're
always playing catch up.
And the easy example is, is ai.
How is that going to help
this industry in the future?
I think there's, there's a couple.
I won't say easy, but maybe easy
to identify opportunities like, uh,
demand forecasting, optimize pricing.
Those are a couple areas where AI will
certainly be able to help a little bit.
Victoria Meyer: Yeah.
James Hogan: the, the other
areas where I see digital
really helping is dashboarding.
You've seen, if you've gone into a
plant, you've seen KPI dashboards
or monitors with all of the supply
chain throughput, throughputs and how
everything's being, you know, created.
That's becoming a lot more useful on the
front end and the commercial side as well.
Um, understanding, using data-driven
insights to understand why is a customer.
Why haven't they bought in three
months when they, you know, were
buying over a long period of time.
Why are they only buying a small
portion of the portfolio when
you know they could buy it?
So trying to, you know, these types
of data-driven insights is gonna
be, are, is gonna be very helpful.
And then just the, the using smarter KPIs
to run your business and make decisions
and not just having a bunch of charts and
graphs for the sake of having, because
you have a, you have the ability to do so.
And
Victoria Meyer: Yeah.
James Hogan: the last, the last
thing I'll mention here is, around
blockchain technology, which has kind
of gone, had peaks and valleys over
the past several years on, uh, the
usefulness and the use cases of it.
But I think, you know, something
the pharma industry has done for.
Years and years now is track, uh, is
track and trace and sustainability and
understanding that now using blockchain
technology to kind of have that public
ledger should hopefully open up some
opportunities, not just in pharma but in
other chemicals to make sure the product
I'm ordering is the product I'm getting.
There's no black markets.
Um, we can understand all of this and,
and, and track and trace accordingly.
So a lot of different unique ways.
I think we're still a bit in
the infancy on many of these,
um, but a big opportunity for
the industry moving forward.
Victoria Meyer: Yeah, and I think
that your comment about blockchain
is interesting 'cause you're right,
a few years ago that was the talk,
everybody was talking about blockchain.
By the way, I still do
not understand blockchain.
I'm hoping somebody somewhere can
explain it to me in a way that I
understand 'cause it's not there yet.
But It certainly seems like it's moved
to the background rather than to the
forefront of what folks are doing.
James Hogan: It is been a wild couple, uh,
wild couple years in the industry and in.
Geopolitics and everything where
you've, we've, we've always gotta
prioritize, uh, what we're thinking
about today and, and tomorrow.
And I do think you are
exactly correct in that.
It has not been, I'll say, marketed
or explained well for everybody,
there's a network effect to this.
And I think eventually we will
get there, but it's not easy yet.
And, um, that's, that's a key.
Uh, not just for chemicals
for blockchain overall.
Um, I think it's gonna be helpful.
Um, I think we've still got
some, some time before it takes,
uh, takes hold mainstream.
Victoria Meyer: Yeah.
All right, James, you mentioned
the T word being tariffs and.
They are what they are.
And I know you, you know,
so we're not gonna get into
the, what it is and why it is
James Hogan: Yep.
Victoria Meyer: it is, but more
importantly, how do tariffs
play into this whole aspect of
pricing and value, particularly
in a market where if You look.
Um, generally speaking at the chemical
industry, how about this will take
commodities seem to be quite long
and overbuilt, specialty is mixed.
the conversations and
considerations you and your
clients are having around tariffs?
James Hogan: You are right.
It is very complicated.
The issue with tariffs right
now is the uncertainty.
And if we knew that tariffs were
going to stay, then it would be,
we'd have one approach to it.
When we don't know if they're gonna stay
or they may be pulled back, it makes it
a little more complex and understanding.
How do you manage that as a firm?
How do you as.
As a manufacturer, how do you
manage that as a customer?
There is a bit of a timing
game here, and there's a couple
different ways you can do it.
One is putting a surcharge onto your
invoice and saying, this is a tariff
surcharge, so it's transparent.
If tariffs move, you take it off.
Another, and sometimes for simplicity,
the customer would prefer just put
it in the price of the product.
Um, if they, if they come off, then we
can lower and move the price around.
But there's a lot of integrated
systems here where, and I, I
say systems intentionally in
IT and infrastructure that.
When you have, you know, EDI talking to,
you know, other ERPs from customer to
uh, manufacturer, it's, it's complicated.
Victoria Meyer: Yeah.
James Hogan: so trying to find a
way to get those, you know, get
that to work together is important.
I understand the intent of.
Tariffs and we want to optimize
for, some of the, the economics and
different reasons around the world.
It's a long-term game, like you mentioned
when you're trying, when you're talking
about building production plants to
satisfy, you know, capacity and demand,
and now we have tariffs on top of it.
These are not things that can get
decided or built in, you know?
A year.
These are five, 10 year CapEx builds.
And we've started talking to some of
our customers about scenario planning.
And I think that's a key that is, that
has become more important is you might
not execute all of these things, but you
need to have plans in place if something
happens that you know is gonna last.
So scenario planning has been a big
piece of some of our work with our
clients recently and just, if this,
then that, you know, if something
happens, let's be prepared to react.
Victoria Meyer: Yeah, so critical.
So critical.
I love scenario planning.
I don't think we, um, utilize it as
effectively and as often as we should.
Um, some of my history, uh.
It shows that, you know, sometimes
scenarios are identified and then they
become forgotten, and then when they
show up, it's like, remember there was a
James Hogan: Yep.
Victoria Meyer: and this is it.
Oh, but
James Hogan: Deep down
people love to play devil's.
Uh,
Victoria Meyer: Like.
James Hogan: deep down people love to
play devil's advocate in these meetings.
If you're doing war gaming or you
know, any sort of game theory and,
uh, you know, you get a lot of, you
know, smart people in this industry
in a room and say what could happen
if, um, it, it can be a fun exercise.
The busy work and the important work is
how do we quantify that and how do we
make the right decisions based on data,
while making assumptions that, you know,
could have very different outcomes.
But, this is the world we live
in now and we've gotta make sure
that we, you know, we are prepared
to adapt, uh, or get left behind.
Victoria Meyer: Yeah, absolutely.
Awesome.
This has been great.
So James, final question for you.
You know, if you were giving advice to
a young James Hogan or to another, you
know, young professional in the chemical
industry that's really looking to build
their career, um, whether It be in
pricing and consulting or just even to
get to a senior level in the chemical
industry, what advice would you give them?
James Hogan: It is, it's always
to do what you're interested in.
I did that.
It took me a couple of
different directions and I
kept finding more interest.
I joined consulting because it, I
thought it was a great job to figure
out what I wanted to be when I grew up.
So I'm still figuring out what
I wanna be when I grow up.
I work, you know, eight to
Victoria Meyer: so you know.
James Hogan: indeed, uh,
eight to 12 weeks at a time.
It's always something different.
It's always something exciting.
I work around the world.
I work with great people,
and I have fun doing it.
So.
There are other people that say,
I want to go into this company.
I want to exact change in this company.
I want to be here for, you know,
the long term for 10, 15, 20 years.
This chemical, the chemicals industry has
lifers in some of these large companies.
And, and it's great.
And that history is what is, what drives,
um, you know, is what drives success here.
And I think at the end of
the day, you know, when.
People ask me, you know, what
makes a successful consultant?
I think it's the same thing that makes
a successful anything is communication.
Be honest with yourself.
Talk to your bosses, your colleagues,
you know, have an open and transparent
conversation about what interests
you, what you can do to support
the, the company, the customer.
Um, and you'll find out that you,
you end up having fun doing it.
And, it's a reason we get to have
these types of conversations today.
Victoria Meyer: Yeah.
Awesome.
James.
Thank you.
This has been a really great conversation.
I really appreciate you joining me here
on The Chemical Show and at the Chemical
Summit in just a couple of weeks.
James Hogan: I am looking forward to
joining you and, uh, look forward to,
uh, seeing some of our viewers there.
Victoria Meyer: Absolutely, and thank
you everyone for joining us today.
Keep listening, keep following,
keep sharing, and we will
talk with you again soon.