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NC State sports podcast hosted by Griffin Cunningham, Stone Boylan and Patrick Simon of WKNC.
Griffin Cunningham 0:10
Welcome back to light it red. This is our second to last episode. It's just that time of year or one at a time. So it is what it is. But we've got to wrap it up. So we had three guests scheduled for today. And they all canceled. So awesome.
garnered a lot of attention. So as DJ burns, and so why not, you know, cash in on that Dan Patrick's cashed in on it. Richard is just like Dan Patrick, which, yeah, same level, all the big players and sports have had a podcast about NC State, except us. It seems like the past two weeks, so we got some catching up to do.
Stone Boylan 1:23
Yeah, we're a little late to the party had some stuff going on. But we are here now. And yeah, I I just can't really believe it's almost surreal. It's almost surreal, because obviously we'd picked our It was surreal, even before that tournament. Yeah, like this whole.
It's just crazy that this insane run that is not even really comparable to any ACC school ever. And only really comparable to like two other schools all time in the history of college basketball is happening to us this year. Like, it's, it's, it's just insane. It's it's, it's insane.
Griffin Cunningham 2:05
Yeah. And are you talking about just being an 11 seed making it this far, or just laying the women from
Stone Boylan 2:10
going, we even like, the combination, obviously more focused on the men just because they weren't even supposed to be there, you know, but just the combination of like, five wins and five days, boom, and then you make it very last seed, go to the Final Four, like that stretch has just almost never been replicated. Like UConn is really the only thing. It was way back when but when they won the title, and when they were low seed in the Big East a long time ago, with Kemba Walker, they came to the tournament as like a three or four seed. Like we're we weren't going to be in at all. And so I think that's why it's almost unprecedented what has gone on with NC State and the basketball program this year. But then you also add on that the women held up and killed it. And now they're in the Final Four as well. So just the whole combination of that. Like, I think it's really cool that we're here and reporting on it for what might be one of the greatest seasons of college basketball at NC State. Yeah,
Griffin Cunningham 3:10
I think I think it's important to make sure that that one doesn't take attention away from the other though, because even though the women had a very good regular season run, they came in as a three seed and obviously women's college basketball is very, I guess someone would say top heavy. There are a few very dominant teams in the country. And that is what it is. The talent is not yes, yeah, there's
Stone Boylan 3:36
not a lot of parody distributed.
Griffin Cunningham 3:39
So they were not supposed to go to the Final Four. So I think at this point, the men are certainly not supposed to be as far as they've gotten, but neither have the women this is this is not I don't think what anyone expected. They're a nice seat. I
Stone Boylan 3:53
think everyone else around them as what a one is UConn one as well, is actually a three, three. Okay, well, UConn as a program, you look at them as a three for women's and be like, Okay, well, this is clearly like, we're not taking them. We're not under estimating them. Like they could easily be a top tier. But with NC State, it's like it's taken a while for them to really get to this point. They've had to build a ton. And they finally reached it.
Griffin Cunningham 4:15
Yeah. Well, I mean, I agree with that. But it's also interesting you say that because one of the first regular season games they had was against you. And maybe yeah. So obviously that doesn't, you know, one wind doesn't equate to You're better than this team holistically. But
Stone Boylan 4:30
yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah.
Griffin Cunningham 4:31
I think they're, they're tested and proven. And they had ups and downs. They lost some Virginia Tech twice during the season. But at this point, they have mattered. Yeah, it doesn't they manage the funnel for they knocked off Stanford they knocked off you don't beat one and two seed, right. They lose Stanford. They'd Cameron Brink on Stanford, she's gonna go number two in the WNBA draft. They knocked off Tennessee in the second round. They have Rikiya Jackson, who's supposed to be number three in the WNBA draft. So I mean, who who want NC State's posts to go whatever and the WNBA draft right now, they're just a good team, they have two guards that are really good. And then the rest of it mean the bigs are playing well. And so they're doing great as well. And I think that they have a tough road ahead just as tough as the men with. We've got Purdue for the men and South Carolina for the women. Those are two very daunting teams. Yeah, three teams that have been good for more than one, season two. So I think what we can do is, well, what I first wanted to do was talk about, what would you have said previously about these two teams, and just revisit kind of what we said about Kevin Keats, and DJ burns, and maybe take some accountability? Because I know that I've said that I didn't really have expectations from the men's team.
Stone Boylan 5:51
Well, I don't, you could say accountability, but so does every other human like it's, you know, I mean, maybe I guess you more so because you weren't really as big a fan as DJ burns, because he was like, a very popular and you're kind of like, I just don't think he's as popular but Kevin Keats, you know, it wasn't a secret he was going to be fired. It just wasn't. There's a possibility that if the which I always go back and think about this play, because it literally is weird to say, hey, this created everything. But to think like, hey, the Michael O'Connell, Guy misses four free throws in a row, the dude that shot the free throw at the end of the game. He was like, I think that was the first time all year he had missed two free throws in a row. He was like an 80 something percent free throw shooter, he was the best free throw shooter on Virginia. First time ever. We miss two in a row, I believe. Or in the fourth quarter, he missed two in a row or something. It was like the first time and then he just gets this I was like, on the run off the backboard three rolls, and it goes in like that he could have been fired if that shot didn't go in. Take it's a very, it's a real possibility. Yeah. So, you know, because that one was before Duke? Or was it after it was after after do gap? But even after Duke, it was like, Okay, it's still there. But, you know, maybe you could get to the title game at least, and hopefully do something there. And obviously, he's totally safe now. But even before that shot, you know, his job was in jeopardy for sure. Like, that wasn't really a question. I didn't hate him as much as other fans did. But it is kind of funny, because I do think we can do a good we do a good job, I would say at least of not being super biased and like being like, hey, we did say this. And we said this, like, you know, obviously with the social media world, some random guy commenting on an Instagram post, no one's gonna go back and look at it, you know, be like, hey, unless you're a major figure who tweets something, you know, but you go look at go ahead and look at any post about NC State. Before that they hated Keats, they wanted to get rid of him, like everyone knew they fans hated him a ton. And even if you just go to games, they would build them when they announced the coach, you know, like he was not a favor at all. So I think, credit to him that he is, you know, basically saved his job and more. So in terms of just the tournament run, he's done in the NCAA Tournament. But yeah, I mean, I, I definitely didn't expect this to happen. And I mean, we could go into some of the games in the NCAA Tournament, because the ACC tournament, we kind of covered last episode. But yeah, I mean, that it happens, you know, he credit to him, but I think it was justified for him to maybe be questioned about his job. Yeah.
Griffin Cunningham 8:42
So I want to talk about Kevin Keats, and I want to talk about DJ burns. I think that, first of all, I want to say that I was in Dallas for the sweet 16 and the Elite Eight. So I have some insight on on some of these moments that we're talking about. I did talk to Kevin Keats about that, that situation with him, you know, being booed and feeling like, you know, he was on the hot seat. I talked to Michael, about the shot. And I talked to DJ a little bit. But I mean, I'll talk about my stance on DJ burns from earlier in the season, compared to now. So we'll start with with Keats. What I asked him was I asked him, kind of how he persevered through that situation. I personally, never booed him. I didn't get on the bandwagon to that extent. However, I do think that in sports, it's easy to kind of petition for change, and then the first the first kind of domino or the first, the first thing to fall is Yeah, is the coach. Right, Domino? Is that the right word? Yeah. Especially in college sports. Yes, yes. It's the job security is not super great, especially when you factor in In the amount of time he's been here, I did ask him about that. And he said that the first four years for him weren't really fair, because they were undergoing an FBI investigation. Obviously, I was not here. You are not here. I didn't look into that. I think it's about the Dennis Smith Jr. thing. Yeah, I
Stone Boylan 10:18
assume he is definitely saying it plays into recruiting. We obviously we have no clue if he like maybe had awesome people lined up. And they were like, Nah, I can't do it because of the FBI thing. Maybe we can take his word at it. You know, I'm not sure 100% If that was there, because there's also FBI stuff around a lot of other programs that have gone on, and they've still gotten a lot of people to come there. So that's neither here nor there. But yeah, no, I like what you said. I
Griffin Cunningham 10:44
mean, the point is that the recruiting was hard. And so I think he said that, I mean, the COVID year was kind of kind of a bummer. And then, obviously, last year, they made the tournament, and then this year, they made the tournament, and I think he made the tournament one other year. Yeah, maybe it's first or second year. So I think it's been seven years and never won a tournament game. This is his first, right. The year that he won a game right. And that is that is a big thing to making it as one thing but you know, he got to produce at some level, which I do think it
Stone Boylan 11:17
also goes to show like it does take a while for this stuff to really mature. And a lot of sports. I mean, NBA NFL with like players, and obviously, in college and building programs like it doesn't just happen like the snap of the finger. You know, like they're when Roy Williams first got the Carolina job. He lost to bad teams, Calipari, which is job maybe in question now. But he's still a very good coach. We know, when he first got Kentucky he lost to like some scrub programs. And sometimes they still do this year, they lost the UNC Wilmington. So sometimes losses. Or maybe seasons happen where it just didn't go right. And it looks like a failure. And you're like this needs to change. But I think the biggest credit to him is just like this, we had a million transfers, like our whole team is transfers. And it seemingly did take a while for them to really gel. And I think you can I don't want to fast forward in our conversation, but just talking about him specifically, like, you know, I think with all the transfers that we had, it was going to take a minute for a lot of them to chill. It was just, it came at the perfect time. And it probably happened later than a lot of people expected.
Griffin Cunningham 12:33
Yeah. And that's definitely a narrative that they're driving home. Everyone on the team is basically saying something along those lines, because that's really the only way that you can explain it, I think, yeah, I think even for them, it's like, well, you know, this just this is the way it's going. Now the talents always been there. But it's starting to really come together. So it's very cool to watch it unfold. And then as far as what I said about DJ burns earlier in the year with him. I think now I can't um, I don't even know if I can quote myself. But the attitude that I kind of maintain about that was, I wasn't super comfortable with him being the best player on the team, which was kind of what I felt like we were being set up for with us not knowing really any other player in the starting lineup or on the bench for that matter, except for like Casey Marcel. And, you know, Casey was, I would say, the third or fourth option last year with terravion Smith and Darko Joyner. And then obviously, burns comes along later in the season. Not he didn't, he was on the team the whole year, but then really blossom until later in the year. But it felt like the attention on Burns was just like, too much. I think it was too personality driven. And people were going to have these expectations of him to be this great basketball player. And like we all knew that he couldn't really I mean, his defensive skills are lacking. I watched him fall out of the crate and game in the other tournament. And I just was like, really not on the hype train for DJ burns. And I think what's different now? You know, I don't think I was necessarily wrong in the sense that burns as the number one option is going to be the best for the team. I think the team has really taken turns at who was going to be the best player that night. Especially with DJ horn, DJ horn was the leading scorer all year. So I think you could make the argument that horn is probably the best offensive player in the team when burns gets going. He's pretty unstoppable, though as well. So I think it's important to give burns his flowers here. And, you know, I just I feel like I was wrong in the way that I didn't think that he would be able to produce at the level that he has produced in the NCAA Tournament.
Stone Boylan 14:53
Yeah, I think that's that's a perfect soliloquy of your previous thoughts to now. Like I don't think any of That was unrealistic. And it made sense. It was just obviously, coming at a bad time now, just because of the magnitude that it was, like the games that he was performing in. But you know, what the second or third game last game of the regular season, like, he had a game where he had zero points, because he had, like, four fouls in almost the first half, you know, and I think, whether something clicked, or maybe it was a bunch of good matchups, but, you know, a lot of it was like, Hey, don't get these dumb fouls, like, don't get these dumb, reaching fouls to where we have to take you out of the game, you know, or maybe other teams where it's like, you gotta get back here on defense, you know, like, we can't just do this, he was always talented. And I think, you know, for sure, I would say at least horn is a more reliable, or maybe not horn is a better volume score. Within the threes, yes, which he has been hitting. So obviously, if you're doing that, then it helps out a lot of other people, but Burns is more reliable in the fact that he's got his moves and they just work you know, like, they just straight up work, and it's just been on display for everyone and it's such a fun, just style of basketball. And obviously his personality is so fun and he's a really great guy that it does height, you know, heightened his his general just player in general in his talent, but, you know, I think that's a fine explanation for your basically everything that makes sense. But I mean, yeah, then with I mean, he like you said, I mean, what last game he I think he was a leading scorer, but he wasn't airy. What was he? McCain had like 30 Okay. Yeah. Or no, I'm talking about from just state like, oh, yeah, he was, yeah, hit 29th. So he's, the biggest thing is that he's come up in like the moments when it matters, you know, like he has at least been consistent and it's been other guys around being like, Oh, this is gonna be a Dr. Night. This is a Middlebrooks night. This is an O'Connell night. Marcel's relatively consistent, you know, he might have I think he had one game in the ACC tournament where he had 20 Plus but hasn't really been anything, you know, to that extent.
Griffin Cunningham 17:10
I think he had one of the games in Dallas he had. I think it was the first game him and DJ horn had a lot of points. What team did they play Marquette? Yeah, they did well, against Mark burns actually. Had I think only four points against Mark. But
Stone Boylan 17:28
he was passing away. That's the thing. They doubled him. It was a terrible idea.
Griffin Cunningham 17:31
It was very double him. Yeah, it was terrible. Because then Duke doesn't double him though. And he scores 29. Well, they
Stone Boylan 17:36
don't double them. But they were leading, you know, and they had chances they did, but Mark had no chance. Right? Double them. Yeah, but, you know, I think they doubling him I don't think is bad, but doubling him. The entire game is bad. Yeah, you gotta sweat. You got to, he can pass. You gotta change that up. Like, yeah, it's got to be in spurts. Like, if he's backing someone up, then you rush in, try and fluster him. But don't you don't stay there. You gotta be like, it's got to be someone who can also get back. They gotta be lengthy to like, get in there and maybe get a swipe in or deflect. And then if he passes out, you're not just stuck, you know, having two people on burns and he doesn't have the ball. Yeah. So that was that was our kits. That was part of our kits issue, which we can go through the individual games. But did you have one more players or something that you wanted to talk about?
Griffin Cunningham 18:22
No, I just wanted to say that I think Middlebrooks and Modi are being there. And then Keats just kind of like really learning how to cater to DJ burns strengths, over the course of two seasons has really added to the success with those two guys who can play good defense and rebound. which burns just doesn't accelerate as much. I think that really helps the team and it's shown especially I think Dr. Is really blossoming there was a guy that I talked to that said, you know, of all the players on the floor right now. I think Dr. could really be the one that play in the NBA. And probably, I think it's true, I he'd probably be like a second rounder undrafted, but he definitely has like the body type. And the rebounding skills, too.
Stone Boylan 19:04
He's also only a junior, I was in Yeah, so he is hopefully going to be here next year. And he might not be the offensive focal point. But in terms of like, just looking at guys, which also credit to Keats, I think it did take a while, like we said probably could have happened earlier, but I think you find we had already known beforehand, like everyone has their role. And that's kind of what it is. And we like it took them just a while I think to figure out, okay, this is where the each player should be in this system. And this is how many minutes they should get. Because, you know, the starting rotation didn't start with O'Connell
Griffin Cunningham 19:42
and Dr. Starting, you know, remember when we went to the exhibition, yeah, we went to the exhibit, O'Connor was off the bench. No, O'Connell started to restart the game and he wasn't even he was bad. He was not good. You know, he turned it over a lot. And then in the first game of the season, they brought Jaden Taylor Yeah, to start
Stone Boylan 19:56
and then, you know, there was a portion where Taylor and the Dennis Parker both getting a lot of minutes. They had thrown in, like, Brennan pass for sometimes he played a good amount. Sometimes he didn't. I think LG Thomas had some times where he was in as well. They actually isn't with the team anymore. Yeah, he really loves Yeah, obviously, they had to fill that role, but it changed a lot and DJ horn. Like, at the beginning of the year, he wasn't this like, Okay, this is our number one score. Like that wasn't the case. So I think, again, it came together the perfect time. But I do think part of it was, it took a while, but the coach finally been like, Okay, this is the good rotation, this is what we do. And if we could speak on our run a little bit, I don't want to downplay them or anything. But obviously, when you have some sort of insane run like this, that's hard to really categorize or predict. Luck is involved, which is just true, I think, which it's okay to embrace it. Because it's like, who cares that happened, you know, like, we're doing this, who cares if it's lucky, which is a totally fair way to look at it. I'm just saying, if we're looking at it, objectively, like, we do have to say, you know, obviously, the shot with a Virginia game is the biggest one, you know,
Griffin Cunningham 21:13
Hey, can I interrupt you for a sec? What Yeah. What do you think Michael said about that shot? Because I asked him, I was like, I think this is the way I phrased that. I said, Does it ever feel overwhelming to think back to that moment and realize that it created this kind of butterfly effect? Well, what do you say said that
Stone Boylan 21:31
the only time I actually was able to speak to him, like, briefly when they came back on the bus, from the ACC title game at like, 3am in the morning, or whatever, but, and I like Mitch, I like yelled it out or whatever. Like, how about that shot, and all the players were like, hyping him up. So my interpretation, or at least, just baseline would be like, he doesn't seem to be a guy to be like, oh, yeah, like that was me. Like, I'm like this he, I assume you'd be extremely humble about it. And just from briefly talking with him, that's kind of the guy he seems. Is that kind of what his response was. Yeah, he didn't he barely even took credit for it. Yeah, that's kind of what he feels like.
Griffin Cunningham 22:06
I think he said, like, it's just another shot kind of deal. Like, I've made shots like that before. Not like of that magnitude he specified. But like, he said, other guys on the team made shots to get us to that point. So
Stone Boylan 22:19
which you could say like, oh, yeah, like, it's just BS talk, but I don't know. That just kind of feels. It feels like he actually means that, you know, like it I think, when I mentioned it, the players were like, genuinely like, yeah, like, thank you for bringing that up. Like he it almost like they are also like, dude, like you're, you're killed it like you did this. Like he deserves his flowers. He's probably one of my favorite players on the team. His arc, in terms of like, liking him has been insane. Like, I didn't really know who he was to start with Stanford, had two good transfers. Harrison Ingram to Carolina and then we got O'Connell, both from Stanford. And I thought, No, it's not Louisville. No, he was a Stanford. Really? Yeah, I
Griffin Cunningham 23:03
didn't know that. So
Stone Boylan 23:04
I didn't even clear that in succeed, obviously. But he luckily blossomed at the end. But he's probably one of my favorite players on the team. To be honest, I think he's just been consistently hitting his threes. Like, there's one of the better passwords on the team. I like how they inserted him at point guard. I think he's been really well. And obviously the shot, you know, helps move it up. But going back to like, just looking at our run holistically, like obviously, the ACC tournament. I think the biggest accomplishment we had is being in Carolina, for sure. I think that fully healthy, best Carolina team there and I think that was awesome. You know, probably the best one we had, but in the tournament, obviously, you know, I did not in I don't think a lot of people did at least ones that follow the tournament a lot. Say hey, for sure. There's gonna be a final 14 Just because obviously, an 11 C like that's a low C to make it but the path for NC State for this tournament, really, we got probably the best hand we could. To be honest, I like Kentucky losing in the first round was gigantic. Because when I looked at when I saw a Selection Sunday, I'm like, okay, we can generally be Texas Tech. I have no problem with that. But Kentucky it's like shoot like they want to get out there. They're very fast pace. Like they want to shoot it. Like we're solid three point shooting team. We're not amazing. And DJ burns having to go with this high pace, like it would worry me, you know, and that was definitely a concern. And I was like we could win but it's not. Are we going to get into a shootout and like, score like 90 points. Like I just didn't see that. But we didn't have to play it. We didn't have to play them and we still almost lost like people forget. We went to overtime with Oakland like and Jack oakie we did a relatively decent job stopping him but not I mean, he still had like, what five six threes? Oh
Griffin Cunningham 24:57
yeah, he's still you can't stop The way he's you know,
Stone Boylan 25:00
he's still he's still killed. And we literally went to overtime and work. We dominated overtime obviously after but regular, regular, you know, just non overtime play, we got close to losing. So that was worrisome. But then you know, Marquette, I don't know about you, I didn't have market going to the Elite Eight in any of my brackets. I do too. Normally, I had them losing them the second round and one of them and losing in the sweet 16 to another. And, you know, obviously, we could say, hey, we didn't like Marquette at all, but there are still a two seed. And if you look at that game, I saw a stat that said Marquette. Just have teams this year, that shot at least 30 threes in a game. So they shot at least 30 threes in a game, which seems like a lot. But there's been 1330 times where a team has shot 30 or more threes in a game. And in this game versus NC State, they had the second worst shooting percentage from three out of those 1300 plus games, which is insane. Yeah. And if you watch the game, you would know because they had some. Now we defended some of them well, but they missed some wide open three pointers to where I'm like, dang. Okay, like, Lucky that's not going in. So it felt like we controlled the game the whole time. But they totally could have got back in, like for sure. And I think they just had a pretty off shooting night and combined with Shaka smart's just not phenomenal coaching. Like, I don't think he did a good job of just the way he coached that game.
Griffin Cunningham 26:42
We didn't talk about it. You're not a big Shaka smart guy. No,
Stone Boylan 26:45
I'm not really on there. I think it is one good run. But since then he hasn't done anything. That's kind of why he got fired from, you know, Texas when he was there. I just don't think he's a good adjustments. Coach. And it proved like he doubled team burns almost the whole game. It's like, we can't do that. You need to do it in spurts. Like you can double to him occasionally. But at the start of the game. He has no points right now, obviously, he's a threat. But I think you should start throwing out double teams when the guy becomes a threat. And he obviously didn't score a lot of points. But he opened up that with him being double team that opened up the floor for everyone else. And he's an awesome passer. So if you're going to keep two guys on the whole time, someone is going to be open, if you can pass, you're gonna do in spurts. And I think that was very bad. But you know, then we get to play Duke. We know we don't even have to play Houston, which I definitely, even after. If we won these three games, I don't think we would have beat Houston, because they are such a just insane defensive team. And I just don't know if we would have been able to handle it. But we didn't have to plan unfortunately. Because with Houston playing Duke, their best player Houston's best player got injured. Jamal shed. The maybe it was I think it was the first half. Yeah. And they still only lost by three. Yeah.
Griffin Cunningham 28:00
And let me just say I was at that game. And the energy in Texas shirt died. Oh, my goodness, terrible. They were so upset that everyone was rooting for Houston. Yes, everyone, but like, a lot of the people that were rooting for Houston. As
Stone Boylan 28:16
someone who was like, obviously winning state to go far, I would have rather play Duke for sure yearly, because I didn't think we would be Houston. But it is just it sucks to see that happen to a player like that. But Duke ends up winning and we get to play Duke, which I was not. I was a tiny bit nervous. But I also was kinda like, I think both teams have an edge. Like NC State obviously has been like, we're the underdog the whole time. But Duke could also be like, hey, this team beat us. Like, we can't take them for granted, you know. But I think it's, I think Duke this year, if we're all hitting Well, it's just a great matchup, like, burns just owns Philip hausky he just can't really do anything. Like, he's a much better finisher, Phillip housekeys really tall. But if he's not just nailing threes, he's relatively useless, you know, because I think DJ burns can easily score on him. And he had a very bad game, you know, he had a bad game and I think other guys did a pretty good job defending and boom now we're now we're in the final four. So it does take some some luck not facing certain teams, certain other you know, players or teams not necessarily playing well but not necessarily due to us playing amazing defense. But luck has to happen if you're an 11 seed making it and I think they you know, even if we wish we can slightly preview it. I'll let you you know, say anything if you have to, we can preview both games that we have. But I think even with the luck that we've had, it's still going to be one of the greatest just runs by any team ever in the tournament.
Griffin Cunningham 29:51
I agree. And I was I mean making it to like the sweet 16 by itself is like a big
Stone Boylan 29:58
deal even that was like okay, wow, this As I would take this started
Griffin Cunningham 30:01
school, you know, start printing the shirts, you know, the shirts are in this.
Stone Boylan 30:04
They did Yeah, we went there, they literally hit sweet 16 shirts, no one is buying him.
Griffin Cunningham 30:08
He wanted a real one. But you make those shirts because that's an accomplishment. And that's something that you get a banner for, and you're hanging in the rafters of PNC arena. But what was really cool about them beating Duke, and making the until the eighth or sorry, the Final Four was not only that they beat Duke. And not only that, they'd be Jared McCain, but hate him so much. I figured you might. Yeah, they got a trophy for that. You know, they got they are South Regional champions of the NCAA Tournament in 2024. And no one can take that away from Yeah, I'm just like, No one can take away their ACC title in 2024. And so regardless of whether they win or lose to Purdue or their winning or losing their Yukon or Alabama, whatever happens, I just don't think you can really take anything away from this season and this run and everyone's gonna remember it forever. And everyone's gonna buy an agronomic yearbook. And everyone's gonna pick up a technician tomorrow. And we're riding high. So yeah,
Stone Boylan 31:08
I totally agree. This doesn't matter what happens after this. It's still phenomenal. I wish I'd been able to touch both trophies, by the way, which is really cool. The first one, the ACC one, I went to go see him at night. Because I, I hadn't I wasn't able to go to any of the games, you know, other people have priority over me in terms of like getting passes to go and then won't want for this for now. No, I'm not calling you out because you deserve to go for sure you were agronomic longer. Thank you, and technician already went to the first round. Right. So
Griffin Cunningham 31:40
Well, I mean, let's just preface here, these these guys are paying out of pocket. So our student media, that's what I was gonna say is there's no money to be going to this stuff. So we got photographers and writers paying out of pocket to go stay in hotels booked flights, and go cover these teams. And so yeah,
Stone Boylan 31:57
that that that sounds gonna you know, because the first ones was then paying for it. But NC State did not have any plans in the budget for their men's and women's tend to be in the Final Four. So anyone going to cover the game? Obviously, they get a pass to the game. So it's free, I think, oh, yeah, no, there's no no charge for the seat. But flight, anything else food living all on them, which we get there on your own, we calculated I think it's probably a little bit over $2,000. And if I were to do that, which I considered and I asked a lot of people, I would have to pay out of pocket myself. And I just I can't do that. I don't think it's I just don't think it's worth it. I'm sorry, if I'm being a Debbie Downer, and like, No, it's not worth it. And if you're going like That's awesome. You probably have way more money than me. But you do. But is that there are adults I know that are going to be going because it's like, Dude, it's like the first time in 40 years, you might be 50 or 60. And you would want to do it. I'm like, Well, I don't have money to go and do it. But I just as a financial person, I just, it's not has it's not for me personally,
Griffin Cunningham 33:00
well, I'll tell you this, though. At least we're going to school here when it happens. Yeah, they can't take that away from us ever. So cool. And there will be a celebration on campus with whatever happens. Whenever they come home there. They will be greeted, I'm sure. So even if we're not in Phoenix, we're not in Cleveland, for the women. We will be here in Raleigh. And I think that's almost as cool.
Stone Boylan 33:26
Yeah. So being able to say like, forever, like, yeah, we covered that, even for us specifically, obviously, all students can say they went there, but for us specifically, like both of us have been, and interviewed both men's and women's players and coaches on this team for and then like in the men's locker room. But we've talked to and interviewed players and coaches for both men and women through the whole season before all of this stuff, especially with men before they blew up, you know. And I think that's also really cool. To be like, Yeah, I we covered this team. You know, like we had talked to these coaches, we'd asked Keaton and these coaches and players and stuff, we'd ask them questions and and then for them to be like yeah, now they like reached this point, I think was is super cool in we're gonna forever be able to say like, we were here and very engaged when they when they want and maybe I mean, we don't want to speak too far into the future. But hopefully, and maybe this is a kickstart. I mean, the women's, I think have built something good. I'm not really worried about about then they'll this will only give them more recruits, but for the men specifically, like maybe this could be like, Hey, we're starting to get higher recruits because obviously we're not winning these games because if recruits, you know, we went heavy on the transfer portal, which I think maybe this is a sign. It is a sign and I already have this opinion that transfers I think transfers in 2020 Four and beyond are going to be more than recruits. Because I think with NFL and college basketball, obviously you have recruits that you want to bring in and build up. But a lot of guys in their first year, if they're not get enough playing time, they'll just bounce. They'll build it. I've seen it with so many schools. And I think if you can just get these guys who are experienced, have played, I mean, go ahead and just check the starting lineups for March Madness teams before you watch the game. I do it a lot. The teams that have like graduate or senior under them a good amount of times, they're the ones that are winning because of the most experienced, they don't crumble under moments like Kentucky, I we a lot of people had thought their talent is going to prevail. It was very good, but it was part of the reason they lost because they got freshmen, a ton of freshmen and I think that's part of the reason that they're not winning as they should. And you got Yukon, you cannot sign in all these five star prospects. Yukon has almost they had previously to walk ons that are starting for their team. They built it through yes, they might get a high recruit, but they get transfers. Or they have other guys that they slowly try and build up. And they don't just try and go for the best players and then they might leave immediately. And NC State has four graduates on their roster, one junior, and I don't even know if there's like, there's not a freshman that's getting major minutes. Well, Dennis Parker, he's probably the only one but he's his minutes have declined. He's
Griffin Cunningham 36:32
playing right now. No.
Stone Boylan 36:37
Yeah, exactly. He, there's minutes of decline throughout the season, he hasn't gotten any sort of play, they've focused more on the experienced players. But I think maybe for state, this could be like, Hey, we can get at least more big name transfers, but also maybe just some more recruits that want to stay. That's the biggest thing. You got to have them to want to stay. And hopefully we can can get that. And maybe players look at how much fun just these guys are having. And be like, Yeah, I want to be here. Like this is where I want to be. Because next year, it's gonna look very different. Again, for the second again, right? Yeah, which that doesn't mean it's bad, because this year worked out. But again, you always have to look at it as like, Hey, this is kind of what we're looking at. Because for the five guys in our starting lineup will be gone next year, you know, and we're going to have to find obviously another score and everything like that. So maybe this gives us more attention and being like, hey, they've won with transfers, I want to come here. So that's at least looking at them in the future. But now we can we ended off just by going over these matchups that we have to end off the season. Sure. If you want to start and you can give your opinions we can start with the women's first. Yeah,
Griffin Cunningham 37:54
um, I just wanted to I just I wanted to say that I agree with you. I think I think success with the men's basketball team is going to lead to something greater I think you the goal is to leave it in better condition than you got there. When it when when it was when you got there. And I think that's kind of the case with with what's happening with this team right now. And then also just success across multiple sports.
Stone Boylan 38:20
Yeah, for sure. We didn't get to all of them but we'll get into it next episode. But we've done right swimming gymnastics, wrestling, like baseball successful, we're killing it right.
Griffin Cunningham 38:30
I'm sure there's some there's some like connection between football and basketball people consume those sports. Yeah, kind of together. So I don't know just younger athletes and then you got California athletes that are gonna be ACC Tech's athletes. That'll be in the ACC, you know, so it'll be different for sure. And I think in a good way. But yeah, you want to talk about women NC State versus South Carolina and NC State vs. Purdue. Yeah. Don't know. I know that. South Carolina has basically a lot of talent. I know that they have Cardoso. That's the only one I know by name. But what I've heard is that basically their starting lineup and their bench is like to starting lineup Yeah, they Final Four caliber starting lineup.
Stone Boylan 39:17
They're kind of like UConn they don't have the men we don't we can you use like obviously the women's players for example. Like they don't have the Caitlin Clark or page at least in my opinion, the page Becker's or anything like that. But they have, they may not have like a top three or five player but they have like the sixth seventh eighth ninth 10th 11th 12 chess player, you know, so that's, yeah, that's kind of what we're dealing with. And they haven't lost again. They learned haven't lost the game. They have one of the best upcoming coaches. And anything's possible, obviously. And they got close, I believe in their elite eight matchup or the previous one as well. Like there was some say almost, as you can see on stage gotten really close. Yeah. And we've beaten obviously phenomenal teams, as you said and Stanford and Texas was a one seed there were, you would kind of said they were kind of the unknown ones. He didn't really know what to expect and we got past them. But I don't want to. People are going to hate me after this episode just from my opinions on the Final Four matchups, but I, I think it's gonna be very hard. Surprised to beat a team that is literally on pace to go undefeated and be one of the best teams in women's like, as good as like, you know, the previous UConn teams, where they won like four in a row. I mean, this is this kind of what we're going up against.
Griffin Cunningham 40:49
Yeah. Well, let me ask you. You're talking about like the top 10 players left in the in the women's tournament? Do you? Where do you think our players rank in the top? 10? Well,
Stone Boylan 40:59
that's the thing we're not you know, I mean, you could make a list and I think I don't think we'd have top five.
Griffin Cunningham 41:07
You don't think Uzziah James is she's probably if she is us fifth,
Stone Boylan 41:11
but there might be a gap between four and five. You know, because I think the gap with one in two is insane.
Griffin Cunningham 41:18
I'm curious Caitlin Clark, either she's lizard is one.
Stone Boylan 41:21
I think so. Yeah. In pages two? I think so. My opinion. Yeah. Yeah, I think maybe it slipped maybe maybe I'm buying into like the National hype of her. I just I don't know, I watch her and I I feel like she there might be times where she gets the ball too much and is like missing four layups in a row. And it's like, Are you kidding me? Like, what are you doing? But then she'll make fucking you know, 29 shot three and it's like, okay, well, that's insane. Like yeah, 20 You said 29 or 29 foot? Yeah. 29 It's like wow,
Griffin Cunningham 41:54
yes, yes. Caitlin Clark, is that bitch basically if that's what you want to say Paige is like more pages more well rounded. Yeah, she can play defense better. She can kind of do the things that in between things a little bit. That's
Stone Boylan 42:09
gonna be an awesome amazing game between Oh yeah. 100%
Griffin Cunningham 42:15
that game and then yeah, I think that game will probably get higher ratings in South Carolina. Yes.
Stone Boylan 42:19
I mean, maybe in the middle of the game. We come back. I don't know. I just, I I do unfortunately. Think we may be running into a buzzsaw potentially. Yeah.
Griffin Cunningham 42:30
Yeah, well, at least if anything we have the final four. Yeah, right. Both Okay, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens I think that I think if if at all clicks anything can happen
Stone Boylan 42:45
ya know? 100% I don't think I I'm not putting us out completely.
Griffin Cunningham 42:49
But it's gonna have to be pretty damn good performance from everybody on the team perfection they South Carolina has a deeper roster, but I don't think Dawn Staley will run like maybe seven seven rotate seven person rotation maybe eight but I know we run a shorter rotation like we're gonna have to have Zai and Shanaya both station I every time it what is it? And I Oh, Sanaya. Sorry.
Stone Boylan 43:12
I mispronounced that
Griffin Cunningham 43:14
it's funny because that's what the moderator for the NCAA said as well
Stone Boylan 43:18
maybe that's why because I've heard it from somewhere. I don't know I should have known it wasn't that but normally at least the games I've watched it's like one goes off the other ones not as much there's rarely times where they're both going off and then this game they're both going to have to be going for 25 Plus sort of like
Griffin Cunningham 43:36
yeah, they're gonna need river ball. I mean,
Stone Boylan 43:38
yeah, rivers gonna need to dominate get every rebound like yeah, get 10 offensive rebounds if that's even possible.
Griffin Cunningham 43:44
Like I think the underrated part about NC State Women's excuse me women's basketball is is just wherever Baldwin sighs I think people like to gravitate towards the scores, but I think rivers really stepped up and done kind of the dirty work if you want to call it that. So I mean, she's going to have her hands full down low. Absolutely. But I don't think there's anyone really more well suited for the job than her so yeah, I think if she can do that as I James can knock down those threes. Those Caitlin Clark threes. She's a lefty. So it looks a little different. But she's still doing it. Sanaya is hitting the pull ups and which
Stone Boylan 44:23
I don't want to go in too much of a side tangent here but she's probably my I think she's she's definitely my favorite player. And I river every shot I don't know every time is is probably more consistent, relatively speaking, but rivers is probably my favorite. I just think the herd lengthen the way she can handle the ball and create her own shot and shoot and drive. Like I think she's pretty, relatively polished. And maybe she doesn't. I don't know. I don't know if I assume some of these people would get some sort of shot in the WNBA but I I like her game pride the The
Griffin Cunningham 45:00
most I agree. I like the way she plays defense and then her offense has really blossomed to this year. She's a senior this year. She started out at South Carolina her freshman year. Yeah. So that's cool. So there's a story there. And I like talking to her too. So I would say that she's probably one of my favorite players on the team as well. She's always smiling. Yeah, really nice person. So
Stone Boylan 45:19
we're rooting for him. Definitely, hopefully, with a win, but it's gonna take a lot. Yeah. But
Griffin Cunningham 45:25
that's what happens when you get to this point in the tournament. Exactly. There's really no way around it. There's not going to be a fluke team in the Final Four. Yeah.
Stone Boylan 45:32
I mean, if I had to, if I had a gun to my head, I would say okay, I'll take South Carolina, that if I if we're making full up fun pics, but like you said, anything can happen. It's very possible.
Griffin Cunningham 45:45
Yeah. Well, let's shift over to the other bracket with the men's tournament.
Stone Boylan 45:49
Yeah, we can finish off with the men's you can go first. Well and started off.
Griffin Cunningham 45:53
I think we have Purdue producing number one seed. I don't know if anyone remembers when we made our bracket. But we had Purdue winning it all. A lot of people did as well. They lost in the first round. Last year, we talked about how Virginia did the same and then came back and won the national title. Purdue is close to doing the same thing. They have NC State the number 11 seed from the south region. So I mean, it depends on how they play us. If they play down and they think well this is we're going into the championship. We're going to play UConn if they look ahead like that, which you know, I don't think Yukon Yukon scope is going to allow them to look past Alabama like that. But I would say that Yukon and Purdue are both heavy favorites to go play in the national title game. I think Kevin Keats is going to have a game plan for Zach Ed though. He's seven foot four. He has he you know what he's really good at.
Stone Boylan 46:54
Yeah, I mean, I can tell ya,
Griffin Cunningham 46:57
he's good at being tall. So that's, I mean, that's great. But there are ways to play around that. There have been tall guys in the NBA there have been tough guys in college basketball. He's, he's good. He's the best player in the country, according to whoever votes on that. But I say you kind of you don't don't fall out trying to guard Zack Ed. Plan your best put Dr. Middlebrooks on him, not burns, and try to take everyone else away like Casey, DJ and Michael, guard the perimeter. And, you know, hopefully, burns can come in and get some offense going. And you can go toe to toe with one of the best teams in the country. Yeah, here's,
Stone Boylan 47:41
here's the thing. So I think for the first round, we might have a better chance with the men's winning a Final Four game than the win. Just because I think the women are facing the best team. Like for sure. And the men are facing maybe two best and you know, so that's that but still looking at the game. There are literal fans. Some analysts not a ton, but actual fans that would consider themselves like Hey, I understand the game who are picking NC State to win and like generally think they can win because they're like, well, they've done all this before. Like, why can't they win? I will say this team is leagues not leagues is far and away better than our best when UNC they just are UNC was the worst one seed. I think anyone that picked him to win was a very bad pick. I don't think I didn't even pick them to get to the Final Four. I had in the Elite Eight for one of them. You know, so that's our best one and I talked about the luck factor. But I do think you have to look at it and be like, Okay, we beat Texas Tech. middling SEC team like they're solid but they weren't amazing or bursting out or anything like that. Overtime against Oakland beat Marquette had the one of the worst shooting games of the entire year, and then be Dooku we already be because it's a great matchup for us. You know, now we face Purdue which there is a game plan for sure. To win like it's there. It just has to be completely executed perfectly. And the game plan has to be perfect. Which obviously yeah, Kevin kids who have something but he has never faced anyone you know? Like this, isn't it? They wouldn't face Zack ed or anyone to the extent of similar that is similar to Zack Ed, you know, and I think with what the game plan is gonna have to be is like you said we they can't get stupid fouls. You're gonna have to foul Zach Ed, because from what we at least have known with Purdue Zack, he's going to he's gonna get his you know, he's gonna get his points. He's gonna use rebounds. You can't stop it, but you can try and make it difficult at least, and may can take harder shots. And I think there is a time to have a good foul and you can get good fouls, and I think that's what we need to have. We can have just our bigs at least can't have dumb Fouse like Middlebrooks, Diarra and burns are gonna have to play a ton. They are like 610 611, six, nine, like, they're gonna have to play a ton. And not one of them can have like, one or two off fouls, because then it's going to throw off everything. So they're all going to need to be, you know, if they're getting fouls, which you're going to need to do, having good ones on Ed, which the thing is, he's a, he's a 70%, free throw shooter. So he's not bad or anything, but he's going to get his stuff, it's just, it's going to have to be stopping other people from getting shots, but also getting yours. So a lot of it is going to come down to the guards because I love DJ burns, unfortunately, though, he's gonna have to get these shots, right, like they're gonna have to arc super high over Ed. And I think Burns is going to have to take a bit more shots, not necessarily in the paint, but near it. Because Ed does not like being aggressive. The reason I wish people hate Zack Ed, but I, in my opinion, at least, if they just sat and watched a game for once in their life, they would understand why he is good and gets fouled and doesn't fall out. He gets fouled, obviously, because he gets just, it's you don't know what to do with him. So he gets harassed all the time, but he doesn't fall because he's not aggressive. He's not very aggressive on defense, a lot of times, you can just watch someone might be going at him sometimes he gets out of the way literally, or that he's so he realizes he's so large, he doesn't need to fully go in and potentially commit a foul to block a shot. He could just do it smartly, like slightly separated from the person. So with him in the pain Burns is going to have to he's not gonna be able to back you up, fade away shot like it's gonna be really hard, he's gonna hardly even see the basket. So that's why I think Burns will try and get his points but with him passing, like, if we're going to win every single role player is going to need to play good. Every single one. Michael O'Connell needs to can't miss like three he normally gets like his three three is going to need to hit at least two of them. Marcel gonna need to hit he cannot be taking dumb threes. Gonna need to hit his mid range shots, which he does relatively well. Diarra. He says me off sometimes because he just takes threes so much. And he's like a 20% 3/3 shooter, or three point shooter, and he's open a lot and he takes some, he's going to need to hit like two or three, he's going to hit like three, he has to He absolutely has, because he's going to be open. If he hits shots, we totally have a chance from three. And I think Taylor is also gonna have to come in off the bench and be the sparkplug that he was two games ago or a game ago and potentially get like nine or something like that. But the biggest thing is also going to be defending. And that's gonna be with the guards. Because the difference and why we had been confident about Purdue is they're the second best three point shooting team in terms of percentage in the whole country. That's why there's so much better, because you could try and stop Ed. But oh, he passes it out to Braden Smith, a name, you're going to know, Fletcher lawyer a name you're going to know, like they have a lot of people who can make threes. And they just do it at a more consistent rate than we do. And we're going to have to try and stop that. You know, so the game plan is there. But every single role player is going to do need to step up. And we're just going to have to potentially hope that Ed might miss some free throws, or they might miss some threes. Which is that possible? Yeah, we've been the luckiest team in the country the past few weeks. But if again, if I had to have a gun to my head and pick I'm sorry, I it'd be hard for me to pick NC State going against a matchup that they haven't faced and a team that you know, yes, has choked before. But this Purdue team is different than than last year, they just are and I feel like we're on an inevitable Purdue Yukon road to the championship game. Because those two have been especially analytically clearly the two best teams and Houston has been in there but Houston had an injury and that's why they're that's basically why they're not here. I think if they didn't have that injury, they would be here. So and also, if you just even want to look at historical stuff, we are the team that have the most losses ever in the Final Four like to be in the final four we have 14 losses. Anyone else like near our loss record in double digits all have lost in the final for like the first game. None of them made the title game and they face probably easier teams. So is there it's possible for sure you set to do everything we went over, but it's gonna take some luck. We've had luck but if I'm just having to pick right now, I think it's hard for me to just rely on luck, you know Sure,
Griffin Cunningham 55:00
yeah, no, I think you make some great points. I'll revisit what I said earlier at this point in the tournament, you're gonna get the toughest teams. So it is going to be the hardest win of the season. If
Stone Boylan 55:13
they win though, they totally earned it process than do I think they would be you? Let's let's do a hypothetical. Because they would face UConn. I think they will.
Griffin Cunningham 55:23
You counting out? Mustache? Yeah, yeah. In Alabama.
Stone Boylan 55:27
They have a chance to but I think they I think they have less of a chance than we do. Okay, I just don't Purdue. You very quick here, Alabama's best thing is offense. That's why they've gotten here. The best thing is offense. Illinois, who UConn B has like the first or second rated offense in the country and they went on a 30 to nothing run UConn did in that game. So they didn't just score 30 points in the matter of like a few minutes. They stopped the number one slash number two's back and forth rated offense in the country to zero points for that same time out in the could totally win if they hit their shots. Anyone can. And they are pretty good at doing that. But I don't I don't think they stand a chance to be honest. I just don't think they do. So. Unfortunately. I am counting out. Mr. Mustache man and what's his name?
Griffin Cunningham 56:25
Grant.
Stone Boylan 56:27
Some great Olson grant Nelson. Yeah. Sears is probably their best player. He's a point guard. But yeah, I think you can move on and if we face them, we're probably a better matchup for them then, like at least we're harder matchup for UConn then then Alabama's but I think UConn is just on here to get another ring. I think the only team that could stand in their way is Purdue. That's it, basically, and they could totally win. But I'm, I'm looking at a UConn Purdue fine on I would personally take UConn to win that matchup. But that's why I don't think people should be betting State to win at all. I know. It's very good odds. If you want to bet on something maybe bet on the spread for that game. I think we're like, we might be double digit underdogs, maybe eight and a half nine point underdog.
Griffin Cunningham 57:16
I don't think it's you think it's less than double that you
Stone Boylan 57:18
want to maybe seven, someone was somewhere around there. 897, you want to do that? Sure. Or you want to go crazy and go moneyline go for it do not bet on us to win at all. Because it's just from what we've had to face. I think it's amazing, we're here, it would be something that it's already like, we've already basically since the start of the ACC tournament. If you were to say, hey, this 10 seeded NC State team is gonna go to the Final Four. That's already analytically I think, according to the stats, it was a point 00079 chance. So near impossible. Doing these two teams would basically be impossible. And it'd be the greatest thing in the entire world. So totally could happen. I just wouldn't I wouldn't bet. Sure.
Griffin Cunningham 58:04
I wouldn't advise betting either. So what a story it would be, hmm. If if NC State
Stone Boylan 58:10
oh my gosh, to beat Purdue anymore. Think about it. So I don't want to get to this point. Okay. Well,
Griffin Cunningham 58:14
I'll end it off by just saying that. The last time NC State played Purdue, first of all, we haven't made the final four since 83. Purdue hasn't made the final four since 1980. Yeah, they're also fighting for a lot. They, they want it probably just as bad. And it probably is harder for them. Because losing they've been good. Yeah, good teams come through, and just not win at all. But they didn't just lose to 16. They lost to 1615. And I think like 13 or 14? Yes. Like three years in a row. They disappointed. Yeah. So they they're just as hungry. I mean, if you watch any Zack Ed clips of him talking after they won that game against. Sorry, who did Purdue play? Tennessee, Tennessee. Yeah, he was talking. He was running his mouth basically.
Stone Boylan 59:01
Which Tennessee was close, because they have probably the best or second best player in the country and Dalton Connect. You'll see him in the NBA. I think it's gonna be really good. For
Griffin Cunningham 59:11
so yeah, I mean, I'll just say the last time as you say, you know, in the last time NC State and Purdue matched up. It
Stone Boylan 59:17
was recently relatively Yeah, two three years ago.
Griffin Cunningham 59:20
2120 21. Yeah. Pretty was ranked number one at the time. And we lost in overtime. Yeah, I was dairy on Super on lead team against a J Nivea team, and pretty one, but Kevin Keats was the head coach at that time. So he's seen Purdue before. He has not seen the Zack he is totally different. You know, it's something so, you know, it's hard to beat a team twice, right? I don't know. I don't know. But it is funny that that we have matched up with them in recent years because you know, they seem very distant from us as a program so we will be back and we We'll talk about the results of the NCAA tournament with optimism, hopefully garlis of what happens. And then we'll talk about some spring sports and then we will part ways and then trying to figure out what the next step is, I guess. Yeah, with with our senior year, so. All right. Well, thanks for listening to the letter read. Music In this podcast was Jonas Hooper's king of sports and vibe and sneaky, licensed under creative commons from the Free Music Archive
Transcribed by https://otter.ai