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The Honest Money Show is your guide to understanding what money really is, and where Bitcoin fits in. Hosted by Anja Dragovic, Australia's female-led, Bitcoin-only podcast, it cuts through the noise to explore how money shapes our lives, why the current system leaves so many people behind, and what a clearer, fairer future could look like.
Expect honest, accessible conversations with some of the most interesting thinkers in the space, the kind that take you from "I don't really get this" to genuinely curious. No hype, no pressure, just money, made clear.
Whether you're brand new to these questions or already deep in them, you're welcome here.
You know, there's 500 things wrong
with the world. I think I can do one thing
and I can do one thing really well.
Either these people are very naive or they're
uneducated. If we're getting triggered by
something, it means again, the mirror.
Hello, joining me today is Pete Evans.
Pete, welcome to Honest Money. Hey, thank
you so much for having me, Anja. Is that
how I pronounce your name? Yes, it's Anja.
Yes. Yeah, I'm so excited to finally speak
to you. I have been listening to a number
of the podcasts that you've been on
recently, particularly Karl Stefanovic
and the one you did with Efrat. And yeah,
I absolutely love how they came across. I
thought it was a bit of a like a full
circle moment. Would you describe it that
way as well? Yeah, Efrat is a wonderful
friend and a beautiful communicator and
receiving end and being interviewed as
well. And yeah, Karl was great to be
invited onto his platform actually, going
back on next week actually for round two,
which is pretty cool. It definitely upset
a few people that perhaps do not trust,
have trust issues and don't understand
that somebody can pivot and change their
perception. And I like building bridges.
That's what I like to do. And as someone
that was in mainstream media for a good
two decades, I always perceived my talents
or gifts or the position I was in is or
was to straddle both worlds, sort of the
mainstream media world and also have a
foot in the, some would say alternative or
natural health space. And I enjoyed that
adventure of having a foot in both camps.
And, and I guess Karl is stepping into
that or he's completely severed the
mainstream and going down a different
path. And obviously mainstream is, is
becoming less and less irrelevant. And to
the point there where we probably
shouldn't even call it mainstream anymore.
We should probably just call it what it
was or what it is, which is old school
media narratives packaged up for the
population. Whereas now information is
being shared in so many different ways
from so many different people that are
committed to sharing their perspectives on
the world. I think the more diverse the
information is, the merrier the world can
be. And I trust in this whole process.
Yeah. And I'm noticing this kind of same
playbook play out, you know, with
different people and across different
industries as well, where there's this
kind of almost like a division between the
institutions and then the public. Yeah.
Well, the public, the public definitely
has the power. Power is such an
interesting word, but never underestimate
the power of the public. That's for sure.
And what we've witnessed over the last
however many decades, we've got centuries
is that sometimes a minority can seem to
have the loudest mouthpiece or, or horn
that they're blowing, which can scare or
rattle the public. But I think that is
definitely changing. It has changed.
Whereas it doesn't have as much, it
doesn't hold as much weight anymore from
those legacy old school media platforms,
because people have worked things out that
they've said have either been untruths or
deception or lies or just bad information
that doesn't really benefit the general
public. Even in the Bitcoin space, you
know, trying to find a positive mainstream
or legacy news article about it is few and
far between. Whereas if you're just
getting your information from that source,
it would have you believe that Bitcoin is
a scam and that it's going to zero and
that it's broken and it's dead a million
times. Somehow it just keeps coming back
to life. They don't know how or why it's
the public. It's, it's the public that are
keeping it. Well, not only giving it life,
but telling each other about it and, and
educating them. And the rabbit hole, as
you know, goes deep in the financial
spectrum and more and more people are
probably getting to that point where
they're questioning so many things. And I
think COVID was a great catalyst for that,
for people to question. And once you start
questioning and become curious curious
about one thing that may have been a point
of deception, it can take you down other
areas in your life that you perhaps have
trusted blindly or in good faith, and then
start to query that and question that. And
there's so much great material to read and
watch to understand that the financial
systems that have been put in place are
not for the benefit of the general public.
And Bitcoin serves as a solution to that.
And I always believe solutions are created
from human beings that see a problem in
the current system or systems, and they go
and make a change and let it flow. Yeah. I
love that. There was one thing that you
mentioned during the interview that you
had with Carl about how you felt about
being seen. I found that very, very
interesting, because one thing that I
always think about is the shaming that
happens. Every time I put my hand up, this
little thing pops up. Yeah, the shaming
that happens. Like, for example, with me,
you know, since I started talking about
Bitcoin about two years ago, I am noticing
slowly shifting. But two years ago, there
was a lot of shaming from people in
finance and economics. And now that is
slowly starting to shift where I'm getting
people from those same fields saying, I
love that you're spreading this message. I
love that you're kind of challenging the
narrative. And yeah, like, do you think
about shame a lot? It never enters my
world, to be honest with you. No. And I'm
laughing because it's, yeah, it doesn't
seem to be something that I really think
about at all. But I can understand, I
mean, when you decide to put yourself out
there as a public figure, on whatever
scale that is, a small one or a large one,
you will be presented, you will represent
a mirror to so many people. And they will
respond in a way in which they see the
reflection of themselves from what you are
representing to them. Okay. And for a lot
of people, it could be shame. It could be
fear. It could be insecurities. It could
be doubt. It could be jealousy. It could
be their own hesitation or resistance to
doing what you were doing, you know,
putting yourself out there. Because how
dare someone do that if I don't have the
courage to do that myself, you know, which
is why when you look at social media, and
I'm generalizing here a little bit, but
what you can see a lot of the time is the
people that complain the loudest are
usually hidden behind a cartoon character
or an avatar, and they're not willing to
show their face as to who they are. And
therein lies probably one of the reasons
why you get a lot of attack or people get
a lot of attack is because they are
fearful of expressing themselves, their
authentic self. So they hide behind an
anonymous, I guess, character or mask.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but I'd love to know, is
there a moment in your journey where you
stopped caring? Like, what other people
thought of you? Like, did you transcend
it? I believe I have, yeah. Was there a
point? It was an intention. So my
intention was to get to a state of
neutrality where I wouldn't be triggered
by what anybody thought or said about me.
So everything in life, I believe, when we
set an intention to go down a path of
remembering or rediscovering or
confronting these insecurities that we can
have, whether it is being seen or being
heard or public speaking or being judged
by others. If we have the choice in which
we confront that or we can dance with it
or we can contemplate it or we can decide
not to go down that path. Like, that's not
my path. You know, I don't want to be seen
and heard. I don't want to be judged. And
it's sweet, you know. So be it. No one's
forcing anybody to be a public figure. But
for those that that is their path, then
the intention or the invitation is to how
can you achieve your desired outcomes or
goals or ideas about that you want to
express yourself and stay grounded
regardless of what happens. Regardless if
one person watches your show or a million
people watch your show. You know, like, as
I said to Carl, sometimes the greatest
freedom is not attaching an expectation to
an outcome. And that can be a difficult
one to grasp, especially in the business
building or entrepreneurial space because
you want to succeed, you know. And I
always bring things back to what does
success mean to you? You know, what is
success? Is it financial wealth and
freedom? Is that success? Is it being able
to express yourself freely in a way where
judgment doesn't affect you? Is that
success? Is success not getting caught up
in the day-to-day trivialities of the
external world that really has no impact
on you? Is that success? And is success
actually just tending to your own self and
family and land if you have some land or
your house and just keeping things in
order, you know. Everybody's definition of
success is very different. Some is
building muscle, being healthy. Others
being a great parent or achieving
something, going to do a degree at a
university or painting, learning to paint
or learning to a new language or whatever
it may be. And the human experience is one
of experience of trying new things or
going on different paths to see how you
feel on that experience. You know, do I like that?
As human beings, we
all have preferences. We all have our
likes and our dislikes of what brings us
joy. And a great piece of advice I was
given years ago was if you do not know
what brings you joy, then be curious about
everything. Try that. If that doesn't
resonate with you, try something else. If
that doesn't resonate, try something else.
And if we can go back into our childhood
and think about what brought us joy as
children, was it playing? Was it dancing?
Was it singing? Was it going into the
ocean? Was it actually achieving
something, learning a new skill? You know,
once we can tap into those things that
bring us joy, then the rest of our life
can be this wonderful adventure of
discovery and curiosity. I love that. But
I want to also take a step back and just
ask you what came first. Was it your
health journey or the Bitcoin journey that
came first that made you start questioning
things more deeper? Definitely the health
aspect of it. When my wonderful wife
passed me the book Primal Body, Primal
Mind, and I read that, it both clicked for
us and we put that into practice. You
know, what's the odd saying? I forget the
saying, but it's about knowledge and
wisdom. And something is, you know,
knowledge is knowing something, but wisdom
is actually putting that into practice.
Something like that. It could be reversed.
I don't know. I was thinking a different
one. Do you want to know what I was
thinking? Is knowledge is knowing tomato
is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in
fruit salad. There you go. Yeah. I like
that. Yeah. Same analogy or same wisdom
there. And so when we went down the rabbit
hole of understanding dietary health
principles, that opened up so many
different rabbit holes to go down and to
understand that pretty much the whole
dietetics system and some of the medical
industries is a little bit or a lot
corrupt or misguided or bad science or
corrupted science. And so, like I was
see what happens. Yeah. So going back to
what I was saying, once we become curious
about something, you know, it can take us
down this beautiful adventure of wanting
to find, as some would say, the truth. Or
understanding these aspects of our life
that can impact us. And obviously, health
is a huge one. The old saying, you know,
what's more important, wealth or health?
And most people will say health. But they
usually try to achieve the wealth stage
first, you know, and understandably so. So
once the understanding of how the health
systems have been created and why they
were created and agricultural systems and
the chemical industry and all of this sort
of stuff, and then choosing to opt out of
that or choosing a different path than the
mainstream narrative. When I discovered
Bitcoin, it was through a dear friend of
ours called Alex Fetsky. And he's a very
persuasive fellow and a very colorful
character in the Bitcoin space. I don't
know if you've interviewed Alex or not,
but he's a chair. No, I haven't, but I
would like to invite him on. He helped me
set up an event on Satora. No, Satora.
Satora. Yeah.
So Alex introduced me to Bitcoin and that
was sort of another beautiful, so far,
seven-year journey into understanding
Bitcoin and then obviously understanding
Federal Reserve, the central banks,
understanding inflation, understanding
sound money, hard money. And the list goes
on for the Bitcoiners, proof of work,
software, list goes on and on and on. And
I found it a wonderful adventure to see
that there's a solution out there for the
financial stresses that are placed upon
the general public. And I think Bitcoin
serves as a problem. Bitcoin serves as a
volatile adventure for those that are
brave enough. Sort of like going back to,
can you get to a state of neutrality with
public speaking or being seen and being
heard so it doesn't trigger you? Bitcoin
offers has offered me another test or
tests along my journey. Can I say in a
state of neutrality and trust into this, I
guess, protocol or this technology, which
is called Bitcoin, and whether the ups and
downs and still stay non
-triggered by all the fear and doubt
that's put out there and all the
volatility that Bitcoin encompasses. And
all the differing opinions out there by
the experts. And because I'd seen the
experts in the health and nutrition field
for 10, 15 years, not only debating each
other, but also ridiculing each other and
presenting evidence that pretty much every
single dietary philosophy can be true
through a certain lens and through a study
that is presented. I see the same thing
happening in the Bitcoin space, too. So
it's another invitation to, are you
committed? Do you have trust? Can you
verify, as the old Bitcoin saying goes,
into your own Bitcoin allocation and ride
the roller coaster with conviction? And I am
more bullish now then I've ever been
yeah, and I think it's early, early, early days
in the Bitcoin space
Yeah, so how do handle the volatility like
I'm just curious
Well, it seems to be a part of parcel someone says
programmed into it. Halving cycles and the
I guess, the adoption rate of it
around the world. And obviously, there
could be manipulation with the paper
Bitcoin and the list goes on and on. The.
Yeah, it's with the research that I've
done into it. I am. I am. As I said, very,
very, very confident that Bitcoin will do
what it's meant to do, which is produce a
block every 10 minutes without fail. And
half the supply every four years and more
and more people adopting into the system,
whether it be through their own personal
mining, whether it be through nodes,
whether it be swapping out some fiat
dollars or precious metal worth into the
Bitcoin protocol and become part of the
network. I mean, I don't like to use the
word inevitable, but I have that much
conviction in this space. And I've met
some of the most beautiful people in this
space, too. I was fortunate enough to be
invited to Bitcoin Prague last year to
speak on a panel and Bitcoin Vegas this
year and last year as well to speak on
different panels and just sit in the
audience and be a sponge. Be the student
to the people that are building in and on
the Bitcoin layers or the Bitcoin
framework or the Bitcoin protocol. And
what is evident to me is there's some
very, very intelligent people that are 100
percent in, all in on Bitcoin. And they
are building some beautiful products on
top of it, which can be a problem for some
Bitcoiners, some of the OG Bitcoiners. And
but that's cool, too, you know, that that
10 years ago and we released ready made
meals into the market. And I was attacked
by the purists saying you shouldn't be
doing ready made meals. People should just
be cooking at home. Like, well, some
people aren't into that. You know, let's
let's build the bridge between getting to
make good food. It might not be the
optimal with the buying and sourcing and
doing it themselves. But it's a solution
for a certain demographic of people.
Right. And that's what I see in the
Bitcoin space as well, whether it be
Sailor or Bitcoin Treasury companies or
Bitcoin lending companies. They're
offering solutions and great entrepreneurs
will look at a market and find the niche
or what is missing in that market. Doesn't
mean everyone has to go along and be a
customer to that. You know, the great
businesses will succeed and create a
legacy and perhaps create copycats and
people will see that and do their own
version of that with their own skills and
expertise. So that's what I find really
exciting about the Bitcoin space is that
it isn't just one thing. It represents a
lot of things and there seems to be a lot
of ingenuity and for people to on ramp
into the Bitcoin space that perhaps do not
want to ride the volatility or the roller
coaster like the hardcore Bitcoiners or
the maximalists enjoy the ride. Yeah, I
see that a lot. Yeah, it kind of goes back
to that theme that I was talking about
earlier, the shaming. You see it
everywhere. You see it everywhere. Shaming
people for not doing things exactly the
way that they would like things to be
done. Yeah, it happens in Bitcoin as well,
for sure. Like with self-custody, there's
only one way to self-custody of Bitcoin.
But I wanted to mention, I heard you say
you've been at Prague and Bitcoin Vegas. I
know you're going to be speaking in New
Zealand next year, as am I, at the
Sovereignty Summit. Are you doing a
keynote? Do you already know what you're
talking about there? I have no idea, to be
honest. They've asked me if I could speak
over there and it's in Queenstown and I
was, you know, honoured to be invited. And
my beautiful wife, wonderful wife, Nicola,
or Nick, she's a Kiwi, Kiwi girl. And so
great opportunity to go back to her
homeland and visit her family. And
Queenstown is a beautiful place. And to
speak at a Sovereignty Summit. I generally
don't try to prepare too much when I speak
on anything. I just turn up and see what
flows. But we'll see. I'm not exactly sure
what they want me to do. But if it is a
keynote, I will probably just speak from
the hip anyway. But I'm not. I used to do
things with slides and stuff. But that
really isn't my jam.
I love it. But I have this thesis and I'm
keen to know what you think. I have this
real belief that Bitcoin aligns with
everyone's values. Do you believe that
too? That if people took the time to
understand that they would find something
in it that they really like? It depends on
which lens you're looking through. It
depends on your belief systems pretty
much. Some people think it's magic
internet money. And other people,
especially in the truth and freedom
community, whatever that means, think it's
NSA created or CIA or Jeffrey Epstein
linked. And so people will look at things,
whatever it may be, through their own bias
and their own belief system lens. I often
invite people that are interested in
Bitcoin to start with Safedine Amos' book,
The Bitcoin Standard. And if you don't
want to read it, you can get it on an
audio book. And I listened to it when I
was having a sauna every day and it took
me 10 saunas or 20 saunas to get through
it just listening to the audio book. You
know, I'm going to make the best of my
time in the sauna by educating myself and
being a student. And it's a wonderful
book. And also his subsequent book or
follow-up book, The Fiat Standard, where
he really takes a deep dive into the food
and health side of the system that's been
created through the Fiat Standard. And if
that doesn't open people's eyes to
understand what the last 100 years have
all been about and why we're in the state
that we're in collectively, you know, we
all have the option to opt out and become
healthy if we choose to. But it seems like
most of the population haven't opted out
because either they're confused or they
haven't done the education or they're
following the wrong information or that's
just their life journey. And they're happy
with that.
But with the Bitcoin Standard, I think is a, or I
know to really digest that, it will
definitely create more questions and
curiosity over the history of how money
was created in the first place or store of
value or how we trade things. And it goes
through the beautiful history of that. And
I think that can't ever be underestimated,
especially because everybody lives in a
world where we trade things for the fiat
currency. And so, yeah, I think the
Bitcoin Standard is a really good one. And
there's so many different podcasts and
information out there now. I'm in the
Breedlove series with Michael Saylor. Even
just watching the keynotes and some of the
in-person chats from, say, Bitcoin Vegas
or Bitcoin Prague can be really
enlightening. And everyone who's speaking
is framing it through their own belief
system and their own worldview or their
lens in which they see the world too. So,
you know, I always take it as a grain of
salt, with a grain of salt, as to what
resonates for me. I mean, one of the best
experiences I had was sitting in Bitcoin
Vegas this year and watching Natalie
Brunel interview Michael Saylor. Just the
two of them. I was in a VIP area. It's
probably only 50 to 100 people in the
room. And he finished the interview with
some just profound words. It wasn't about
really about Bitcoin. It was about, you
know, that, and he said it before, he
goes, you know, there's 500 things wrong
with the world. He goes, it would be naive
of me or dismissive of me if I thought I
could fix them all. He goes, I think I can
do one thing and I can do one thing really
well, which is bring Bitcoin to the masses
and the people that will probably benefit
the most from it. The unbanked, the people
that are living in countries that have
hyperinflation and terrible corruption.
Capital control. Yeah. And when you listen
to that side of who Michael Saylor is, you
know, I mean, I have a deep respect for
this man. Not so much in all the Bitcoin
that he's got, which is great, but more
about the underlying, I believe that his
underlying mission is to help humanity.
Right. Right. And not that humanity needs
saving because everything's perfect. It
always has been. It always will be. But
definitely there is always going to be
change. And I see him as probably one of
the most influential people. If he
continues on this path that he will go
down as a very, very important person of
this century. And I don't even think he
started yet, to be honest with you. And
yeah, I resonate with people's energy and
I think his energy is, is, is pretty
altruistic and honest. And yeah, yeah.
It's pretty cool. He's been receiving a
pretty hard time lately. And I don't know
if you saw that recent mainstream
interview that he did with our lady. She
just had the worst body language. She was
pointing at me. She's like, but you're a
company. He's like, are you going to
listen to any of my answers? Did you see
that? I did see it. And I mean, I've been
in those situations with journalists
before, reporters, and you have to
understand what you are facing when you
agree to do something like that. And I've
watched Sailor do hundreds of interviews.
Every interview he does, I watch. And I've
got to take my hat off to him because when
he goes on Fox Business or CNBC Business
or Bloomberg or whatever it may be, either
these people are very naive or they're,
uneducated, but anyone that sat there and
actually understands what strategy is and
what he's setting up. It's not rocket
science to understand what it is. Yet the
people that interview him that are meant
to understand economics and business don't
seem to understand it. It's, I was
interviewed during COVID by Liz Hayes on
60 Minutes. They were doing a conspiracy
segment for 60 Minutes. And I'll use this
as an example because Liz came in to
interview me and I said, well, you
understand about Professor Neil Ferguson
from the Oxford College of London or
whatever it may be. The person that has
created the modelling for COVID-19 and the
measures that we need to put into place
around the world from his modelling. I
said, you're aware of this person, aren't
you? Because everything revolves around
his modelling of COVID. She goes, no, I
don't know who he is. I haven't heard the
name before. I'm like, how can you be a
journalist doing an interview on COVID
when you don't understand that the person
that people are looking to, governments
are looking to for the modelling of what
this is? You don't, how can you not know?
Right. Same thing with the people that
interview Saylor. How can you not know
what he is doing and educate yourself on
it? And either there's a naivety or a
reluctance or a sheer game that they're
playing to plant seeds of doubt into the
general public that are watching those
shows to think that he's crazy or he's
whatever. And that was such an interesting
thing when Liz Hayes said she didn't know
who that person was that was sort of in
charge of the COVID mandates and the
modelling of that every country was
following. And it can feel disheartening
when people don't understand what you're
doing or what the topic is about because
they haven't researched it. I had a, I did
an interview years ago on fluoride as
well, fluoride and water systems. They
asked me the question, why are you against
fluoride? And I told them, I said, but
have you, have you done the research on
this, this, this and this? And they're
like, no. I'm like, well, why are you
asking the question if you, as a reporter
or an investigative journalist, haven't
done it yourself? So, yeah, there's, and
that's why I think mainstream media is
losing their audience. Because once upon a
time, investigative journalism and
investigative journalism, like you go into
this field to be a professional. And what
does a professional do? So they spend
weeks, if not months, to understand a
topic. Whereas perhaps these days, they're
not given the same amount of time to go
and study something. And it's all
clickbait and it's so rapid. And so
they're behind the eight ball always. And
then when they come across someone like
Michael Saylor, who is very intelligent
and understands the financial system
better than most, they come off looking a
little bit, you know, a little angry or a
little bit put out of place. But I hate it
too. I love the meme of, or the video of
Michael Saylor that someone put together.
He's like. That's my favorite one. Here we
go again. Here we go again. Just say the
sigh. But obviously his mission is to go
into the lion's den and gently and
sometimes firmly when it's needed to go
there, you know, based off. He did a
wonderful interview that was two hours
long, probably three months ago, where he
really opened up because the interviewer
just gave him space, gave him the
opportunity to really open up instead of
asking the same mundane questions that so
many people do with Saylor. And it was
such a beautiful thing.
And again, you got to see
the man behind the bussines
the man behind the intelect.
the man behind, um..I got to see
m preception was, you know, a beautiful human being
wanted to do best he can do with
the skills he has
and..everybody has that ability
everybody want to have Karl on podcast
everybody is a genious in
their own right
and everybody has that beautiful
talent to give so
they can share whatever it may be that they're
passionate about. Obviously, Saylor's 100%
passionate about Bitcoin. But we all have
something we are passionate about that we
can share if we choose to, whether it be
with ourselves or our partner or our
family or our friends or our community or
on. Neither is lesser than another. So,
yeah, that was a long-winded answer.
I love it. But, yeah, like I remember
watching you on TV years ago and you went
from this journey, like being a person in
a suit to then, you know, COVID happening
and you being challenged by the mainstream
in many ways. And, like, I'm just really
curious to know in your journey, like, do
you feel like you stepped more into your
authenticity towards the end? And is that
how this all came about? Well, I think
everybody's authentic 100% of the time
always, right? I think authenticity is a β
it can be a weasel word that we have to do
something to be authentic or we have to
remove something to be authentic. At every
stage of your life, you've always been
authentic to the position that you are in
at that particular point in time. Does
that make sense? Yeah, yeah. So even if
you're deceitful or a liar, that was you
being your authentic self at that
particular point in time. That was how you
dealt with any situation, whether you're
kind and loving, you're being authentic in
that particular point in time in your life
too. So I think we're always authentic,
always have been, always will be. It's
just whether that resonates for others at
that particular point in time. Like, some
people really enjoy what I'm saying here
or enjoy what you're saying. Other people
might be triggered by it or think this is
just too woo-woo, you know? Right? The
f**k's he talking about? Yeah. No, I don't
agree with that. I think you have, I don't
think anybody's authentic 100% of the
time, you know? And again, it's just
through the lens. I mean, this is my
belief. It doesn't resonate. Let it go. If
it triggers you, there might be something
in that for you. Because if we're getting
triggered by something, it means, again,
the mirror. F**k. I don't really, f**k, I
don't like that, you know? But anybody
that's listening to this or watching this,
you've chosen to do it. Nobody's forced
you to watch this. Yeah. Even if you put
snippets of this onto Instagram and it
goes out there or wherever it goes, the
people will only be seeing it if they've
chosen to be on your page or are on
Instagram. It is their choice and they
will receive it at exactly the perfect
time. Everything is like that in life. I'm
not talking about myself here. I'm just
talking about that. Everything is always a
choice for us. If we don't like social
media, fucking turn it off. If we don't
like mainstream media, turn it off. If we
don't want to hear about Bitcoin, turn it
off. We have the choice. Even Carl
Stefanovic said it the other day. Like, if
you don't like what I'm saying, you don't
have to watch the show. Just don't watch
it. Right. And at the moment, he seems to
be triggering or... A lot of... So many.
So many. The mainstream is definitely on
the attack. I'm waiting for him to have
the title disgraced former TV presenter.
Like, I got, you know, will they go that
far? And then I know people that are in
the thing, in the truth and freedom
movements that think he's controlled
opposition. And this is all just a ploy or
a play. Right. So everything is based on
your perception. Can you trust? Can you
accept? Is Carl being authentic? Always
has been. Always will be. Are you being
authentic in yourself? Always have been.
Always will be. Why do I do not trust
others out there? Do I have trust issues?
Why am I triggered by that person? They
changed course. I struggle to change
course. So if somebody else does it on a
public platform, I'm going to... That
really affects me because I've really
wanted to change course in my life,
whether it be who I'm with, who I want to
be with, the career that I'm in, buying
more Bitcoin, being scared to buy more
Bitcoin. What if it goes down? This, this,
this, this, this, it's all a mirror for
us. And it's all an invitation, an
opportunity to get to know more about
ourselves. And yeah, that's probably
enough I'll say on that. Yeah. I mean, I
do like what he's doing. I think we need
to have more of these conversations that
are a little bit uncomfortable and
challenging. And I find myself lately just
going down these YouTube rabbit holes of
just wanting to listen to people who I
don't necessarily agree with, you know. I
mean, Channel 9 interviewed Bonnie Blue
and that was controversial, but they still
did it. And then they ended up firing Karl
over his interview with Tommy. And he's
just like, I get that you're not on the
same political spectrum as him, but aren't
you curious? That's just, yeah, that's
where I'm coming. Well, to talk about him
at the moment, obviously, is it will gain
clicks or headlines, exposure and
sensationalism. So, you know, it's part of
that game. It's part of that industry. How
can we create sensationalism? How can we
create comments? How can we create more
clickbaits for our advertisers? I mean,
it's a business. It's as simple as that.
The media is a business. And the ones that
don't have advertising, you know, that is
government-funded broadcasting, that is a
business as well. You know, it's all very
well put into place to either subdue or to
control and to brainwash and propagandize
and to, you know, what they're doing with
Karno, their character assassinating him.
They'll ridicule him to plant seeds of
doubt into people's minds. And then for
anybody to associate with them, they will
paint them with the same brush. It's the
playbook. Once you see the playbook, you
can see how it's done. And then you don't
have to be affected by it or you can and
you can turn that off, which means one
less fewer for them, less advertising.
Then they'll continue to make crap shows,
you know, and they'll become irrelevant.
And more and more Carl's will pop up and
Joe Rogan's will pop up and whoever's will
pop up. And we get to have these
conversations.
So before we wrap up, I'm very keen to
know is if someone's listening and they're
curious I guess in what you're saying and
are thinking about how can I start
questioning things a little bit more
deeply? How can I start thinking more
critically and just, yeah, going down
these wonderful rabbit holes of how can I
challenge my own thinking and my own
beliefs about everything? Do you have a
set of books or resources that you
recommend? That's a great question.
Yeah, I always think the books find you
when you're at the right time. Or you find
the books at the right time, whatever it
may be, or a podcast at the right time or
a chance conversation with someone at the
right time. There's the old saying that
when
somebody has the capacity to take on new
information, the information will come. So
when we're rigid in our beliefs and locked
in and think we know it all, that's
generally when new ideas are repelled.
They don't come in. So my invitation
always is to be curious. That just, if we
can stay in that childlike curiosity
where, it's not about not knowing it all,
but like, I would like to learn more about
everything, right? And when we're curious,
that opens the door for new information to
come. And it might not come in the
traditional form that you're used to. As I
said, it could be a chance thing you
overheard on the radio or on a podcast or
in a magazine or a paper or a news article
or you see a flyer somewhere, you know,
for breath work or a retreat or whatever
it may be. And you're like, if you get
drawn to it, that's usually the sign that
there's something in there for you. And so
I don't like to recommend things to
people, but the Bitcoin standard,
obviously, if you want to go down the
Bitcoin journey. We, my wife and I run
retreats at our wellness center, Evolve
Sanctuary. We run Bitcoin and wellness
retreats as one of our offerings with the
team from the Bitcoin Advisor. They're
great weekends. We've, we've ran five
events with, we have a maximum of eight
guests that we hold and they're such
wonderful weekends. Two of the fellows
from the Bitcoin Advisor, Hats and Brendan
come along and we dial in to Peter
Dunworth and Andy, who are the co-founders
of the Bitcoin Advisor. And we, we have a
weekend where we start off with what is
Bitcoin all the way to self-managed super
funds and eat some great food, have
wonderful conversations. And we get a
really mixed bag of, of different types of
people. A lot of women actually come to
the Bitcoin wellness retreats, which is,
which is great. And a lot in the older
years as well, like 60 year olds, 70 year
olds that want to understand what this
thing is that is called Bitcoin. So we, we
hold people's hands along the journey to
the best of our ability with the Bitcoin
Advisors and, and yeah, bloody great
weekend. So that, that can, I'm not saying
you have to come to our retreats, but
it's, but it's, it's there as an offering.
But yeah, Bitcoin Standard is always
something that I would recommend someone
to read and Primal Body, Primal Mind,
which is an equally intense book about
health and nutrition as well by Nora
Gagaudis. That's also a wonderful book.
Yeah, I haven't, I haven't read it, but
I'm very keen. I'm very interested now. I
did read a book on, by a lady called, I
think, Dr. Edie Georgia. Um, what's the
book, the name of the book, but anyway,
she talks about like the intersection of,
uh, mental health and your diet. And I
just learned so much from that book
because she first started explaining
nutritional studies and how they're done.
And in terms of like, most of them are
observational studies, which is just like
the lowest kind of form of, of, of
studying. Like it's not really
scientifically rigorous and we're basing
our entire food pyramid and everything
around this very poor study design. And I
just, yeah, anyway, I really liked that
book. I forget what it's called now. Yeah.
Change of Mind, something like that. Yeah.
And ultimately, I mean, there's so many
studies, as I said, that can prove one
way, one philosophy to another, um, I, I
wrote a book last year. It's just over my
shoulder, uh, called the primal code. You
probably can't see it. There's glare on
it. Um, which is a book on Bitcoin and
health and wellness and, uh, how the two
intersect. Um, if we can remove ourselves
from the pharmaceutical medical industry
as much as possible through wise choices
of diet and lifestyle, and we can then
remove ourselves using Bitcoin from the
financial corruption systems that are out
there as well, then we don't become a
customer for what those industries. And if
more and more people opt out and do not
become customers, all of these, um,
industries run on profit, obviously. And
if they have less customers, less profit,
less influence, and we can then be
sovereign as much as we choose to. And,
um, yeah, it's, it's, yeah, I, that's why
I love Bitcoin because it just is another,
another tool in our toolkit. Um, and it
seems like a lot of Bitcoiners really care
about their health too, which is great to
see. They do. And this is another thing
that I just love watching, witnessing
people get into Bitcoin and their health
outcomes improve and they want to have
kids. And they like this whole hope and
optimism is restored and they start making
better choices and they stop drinking.
Like, how can you not love it? Um, but
yeah, I'm so keen to learn a little bit
more about your retreats. I will drop the,
um, the link in the notes. Um, loved
having you on and I can't wait to see you
in New Zealand. Um, thanks so much for
coming on Pete. Hey, thanks Anya. And
thanks everybody for tuning in today and
having a listen. Love you all. Thank you.
Thanks.