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Social Justice - A Conversation
Unknown Speaker 0:00
Hi, I'm Charles Stanton. I'm on the faculty of the Honors College of UNLV. And the Boyd School of Law.
Unknown Speaker 0:06
Hi, I'm Lana weatherald. I'm a third year law student and
Unknown Speaker 0:10
welcome to social justice, social justice, the conversation conversation.
Unknown Speaker 0:16
Hello, everybody. And welcome back to social justice, a conversation with Lana weatherald. A third year law student here at UNLV is Boyd School of Law. And Professor Charles Stanton, a professor at UNLV Honors College as well as the Boyd School of Law. We thank you for joining back. And we hope you had a wonderful holiday. I think both me and the professor did apologize, I've lost my voice a little bit for this show. But I think we're going to charge on and power through because we have lots to talk about that has happened while we were away. So with that, I'll let the professor take control.
Unknown Speaker 0:44
Thank you. Well, good post-holiday to everybody. We appreciate that you listen to the show. And we hope that you can spread the word among your many friends and colleagues. I wanted to start today with a little discussion of what happened last week, regarding the Congress and the election, though a very prolonged one of Kevin McCarthy as the speaker. When I was watching it on television, and I tried not to watch too much of it, because it was so outlandish. It struck me that our whole system of governing the way we govern seems to be in a kind of a slow decline, like a building that's going to collapse, brick by brick. And I really could not believe some of the interplay between the congress people. The Congress, of course, you know, as an independent branch of government has a responsibility. And there's a responsibility to all of us because they ultimately approve funding for all the different programs that we have in the United States. And what was interesting about it to me was, there didn't seem to be a lot of the people in this gathering, who really wanted to make progress, or really wanted to have a settlement. They were there basically to disrupt, to dissemble and basically use Kevin McCarthy as a kind of Pinjarra. Right for all their many grievances.
Unknown Speaker 2:24
And it is normal. In it, you know, it typically there's concessions to be made, right, you don't expect that, you know, deals have to be worked out for someone like Kevin McCarthy to take that post to become speaker. Right, you're going to need some sort of concessions. What we have seen is unprecedented. It's not just, you know, a little side deal. I'll put you on this committee. I mean, this is unprecedented. What we have allowed to take place. has, you know, we've all been elected officials. And this is not just one or two or three members of a particular party, this is quite a number of them, that do not respect our institutions enough to not allow 14 separate votes take place. There were no you know, after vote seven, there were no additional concessions after vote nine after votes. There. There was no time where someone stopped and said I've had enough or I don't need to after the you know, 14 I guess but I just think we have we yeah, we need to look at ourselves in the mirror and why are we electing people that don't respect the institutions that they claim to want to uphold? Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 3:24
I think the other thing is we were discussing before we came on the air is the fact that they basically elected a man who as speaker is supposed to direct the agenda for the passage of legislation and demand they picked basically has no power at all
Unknown Speaker 3:45
right? So could be taken away at any moment. Exactly. I mean, it is it is scary. And I don't know if our viewers or listeners are aware, but there is a chance that at any given moment any one of members of the House could start a vote or petition for a vote for a different speaker of the His power is illegitimate. It could be you know, swept out under from him at any given moment. And he knows that the rest of the party knows that and don't think that what hits the floor will not be then held in sort of against him in the sort of idea of you don't do this you won't have your post you won't have your position if you do not put this on the floor, the agenda setting capabilities when you're in constant fear of losing your position all of a sudden become they're not agenda setting capabilities there. You know, listen, either you become a mouthpiece
Unknown Speaker 4:35
Yeah. The two interesting things that struck me was one thing was of course, how desperate he was to get that job where he would literally do anything make any kind of concession which you know, reminded me what's what a St. Thomas Moore said that what does it profit once again the whole world but lose their soul? And then you have the people who are moderates and who knew better? Who were going along with this whole fiasco. Instead of saying, Listen, this is not the way our institution works. But the Republican Party has really been hijacked by these people. And they're basically their basic agenda is they don't have an agenda. It's just to disrupt the government. Yes. You know. So that was so that was a mayhem in our, in our congressional institutions. And it was followed by mayhem at the airports across the country.
Unknown Speaker 5:30
And it's now we're in what second week of January. And it seems like since it means since Christmas, every week, there is some sort of controversy, whether it be you know, all of this Tuesday morning, January 11. All the airports were all in America grounded all flights for four hours, five hours. This is not and this is after the debacle with Southwest where 2500 flights across the country were canceled, and people were missing their children on Christmas. And this is not, you know, we've, you don't want to say unprecedented. We've had travel errors before. But the kinds of things we're seeing where people are losing $1,000 worth of luggage, you know, they're on a flight to Kansas and their luggage ends up in New York City. I mean, these kinds of things are troubling at best. And then I think sort of emphasizes the need for a different mode of public transportation, whether that high speed rails, whether that be evolving and putting more buses on the ground, whether that be putting more bike lanes on the moped, something's gotta get something's gotta get Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 6:31
no, it's I as I was telling you, before I had gone to New York City. Got to Kennedy airport. And the place was a shambles. It was really, it was really kind of scary. It
Unknown Speaker 6:50
was so I Yep. Just for the viewers to know. We have Harry Reid, which formerly McCarran International Airport here. And I'm sure you know, even if you follow and look, local news, especially but national news was showing that the problems that were at Harry Reid International Airport, we're talking 1000s of misplaced bags. So I personally went December 21. This is a few weeks ago, and I would I don't think I am being I'm exaggerating when I say I saw 5000 people waiting for luggage. I mean, you could not move it was body to body in the baggage claim three days before Christmas. It's just not acceptable and not what people want. Prices are so exorbitant when working class people cannot afford plane tickets a lot of the time to see their loved ones. How have we not figured this out? How is this not easier? How is this such a problem?
Unknown Speaker 7:37
Well, I had the opportunity on my on my one of my flights to talk to a couple of the flight attendants. And they were saying how the the quality of performance has has eroded and the hours that they work have greatly expanded. One woman I spoke to had a craze had one crazy day, she flew from New York out to LA. She flew back from LA to New York. And then she finished the day from New York to Vegas. As she said this was not unusual that they were doing this kind of stuff. So when you wonder like, Well, why are these people sometimes grumpy enough
Unknown Speaker 8:20
for striking or not showing up? You're not surprised? How can you be surprised? Horribly overworked? Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 8:26
yeah, yeah, yeah. So on that happy note, Omar will march into immigration, which is another which is another explosive issue these days? And trying to get to the root of who or what is the problem? Why we have this immigration problem. I look at it, I look at it in a couple of ways. One way I look at it is for all those people who are bemoaning the approach of people from other countries to our borders, we have had opportunity after opportunity after opportunity in this country. Our Congress has repeatedly failed in its duty to have a comprehensive immigration reform bill. This has gone on for decades. So so so so that's so that's one aspect of it. The other aspect of it, of course, is that the treatment of the people who come over to our country should always be humane, and they may have to be repatriated back to where they originated from. But putting people in bosses and sending them all over the country to strain states is really something that's really morally wrong.
Unknown Speaker 9:51
I was watching a documentary that was filmed sometime in the last year actually, it was hosted by an individual from Milwaukee So shout out to my hometown, where he you know, he himself, of course, walked right over the border and started interviewing just you know, on the ground boots on the ground and said, What? What is your view? Is this something you would ever do? Did you attempt and so much of the sentiment from all the people he he interviewed? We're not doing this anymore, we're not going over the it would be $5,000 cash for a question to travel probably unsafely and not make it. And then there is the assumption they will be detained the assumption that they will be treated inhumane once they are detained. And then this was all for five grand and the potential to me. So the the desire even is now waning. But for some, there is no other choice. But for now there to be common knowledge that you are going to be abused to have if you cross I mean, what is that? Yeah, for it to be colloquially, they're just discussing about how they're gonna get traumatized if they crossed the border. That's not right.
Unknown Speaker 10:51
Yeah, I think. I think that a lot of that has to do with the color of a person's ground. Sorry, I'm sorry, you're
Unknown Speaker 11:03
100%. And but then you just if we are the land of opportunity, if we are this melting pot, if we are all the things we've said we are for the past 250 years, why are individuals scared to go through our immigration process illegally? Or legally? There's problems either way? I mean, I just don't, I don't see how we can espouse the values, the values we claim to espouse, and then have individuals terrified that if they come to this country of opportunity, this country of greatness, this country that is above all else, as far as opportunity for those that otherwise would have none. Why are they scared, they're going to be tortured? Why are they scared that they're going to be locked in a cage? Why are they scared, they're not going to receive food, or that they're going to be extradited? Or that then they're going to be human trafficked to run by Greg Abbott, God forbid, you know, there's just no, there's no reason we can say we are who we say we are, and then have people espousing the views they espouse about our immigration
Unknown Speaker 11:55
system, I would reckon I found it very interesting. The last episode of the film series, The Purge, has a lot to do and a lot to say about this. I recommend it to everybody. It's really quite fascinating how you get the view of the people who live here, and you get the view of the people who are coming in here. And you know, the other thing too, is that we don't always credit the people who come to our country for doing a lot of good work, particularly in the farm industry, are so many of these people come from Mexico and Latin American countries, and are in these in the valley, and they're harvesting the crops.
Unknown Speaker 12:38
You know, it kills me everybody on flesh and pardons inflation and all my $10 vegetables. Rob, why do you think they were so cheap in the first place? It's because all these corporations are able to pay immigrant labor far beyond and below minimum wage. So it just bizarre how people can justify their own belief system. You know, you have foods as cheap as it is because of immigrant labor. Come on.
Unknown Speaker 13:00
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's a never ending problem, right.
Unknown Speaker 13:05
But as you said, before, Professor, this has been going on for decades. This is nothing new. It's become now just a sticking point and another fear Stoker for the Republican Party. That no, they're still, you know, now, it's just a different flavor, or another more intense flavor, I think, and the numbers now have, give them some credence to their argument.
Unknown Speaker 13:23
I think we're gonna start seeing an increase in people coming from Brazil, because the political situation there has become so really deteriorated, right? It's very, it's very much like a lot of the autocratic states like Hungary, right. And others, and it's a whole bunch of nations that have embraced this stuff. And so he kind of crazy because they were always democratic countries. And well, you know, as, as we're we as
Unknown Speaker 13:53
we're waiting, right, exactly, yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I think I wanted to talk specifically today because it's one of the areas where I think the professor and I we agree about the problem, but maybe disagree about how it should be handled or about solutions or about how it's framed. And that's the Fentanyl crisis. So I'm going to have the professor lead in but I think it's something that's important to talk about as it is ravaging communities.
Unknown Speaker 14:18
I'll throw my bone on the plate. And that is to say that we have an explosion of fentanyl in the United States. And it is and it is, scientifically speaking, as lethal withdrawal has ever been, as ever been publicly available. Now with the fact that they are adulterating the fentanyl, with with an animal drug that's meant for animals and not for humans. Animals sedative ketamine, Academy. Yes, you are going to have and you are having an enormous jumping to death rate and an enormous escalation of not merely people dying, but people having all kinds of horrible side effects from this drug, including the flesh being eaten and all the rest of the stuff. My my thing about this, and I don't I don't pose any solution to it, because every every country that said they had a solution to drug abuse fail, right. But it seems to be in a sense, almost uniquely American to a degree that we are a country of probably more assets than any other country. Why is there such a demand for narcotics? In other words, there were people are always saying, you know, well, you know, the stuff was coming in from Mexico, it's coming in from wherever it's coming in from. But why do we want it so much? Why is there the appetite for narcotics in our country, that that far outpaces any other country?
Unknown Speaker 16:13
Um, you know, I think that's an important question to ask. I think that if that were how this was framed the fentanyl argument, why is it that you're going out and seeking a drug that all but destabilizes your brain? I mean, this is not this is not even like cocaine. This is not even like meth. And this is this stuff's for real. I don't, when it's framed as you know, the killer swiping across the country. No, the fentanyl is a symptom of a larger problem. And if we don't address the larger problem, which I think you hit the nail on the head, the need for sort of state altering substances, because dealing with everyday life in America is just not fun enough anymore. And nobody can do it sober. And nobody just wants to raw dog their day, because it's horrible. Nobody wants to be sober all day, because it's God awful. Here, I get it. I mean, when people can't make ends meet, when people can't find jobs that at least would pay them well enough to make ends meet when people don't see themselves represented in their political sphere anymore. I mean, this is, you know, we've talked at length this entire show has been about the problems inherent into this country. And I think when you're a little messed up, it's easier to turn away from those problems. But this fentanyl, why do you need to be that messed up? Why are these people taking a drug that they know could it all but lethal? And you know, when you start that this will be your death sentence sort of thing, right? But that's not how the conversation is framed on major news stations. That's not how journalists and they are culpable for this to even the best ones are reporting on this problem. It's not we as a country are so dependent on mind altering substances that we've gotten to this point, the conversation is the mother's sneaky little people putting drugs in your children's candy. Oh, cops are touching fentanyl and I just want it I'll take a little aside here. There's not a single cop that's touching fentanyl and dying. That's all that's smoke. That's nothing. They may be having a panic attack. But there is no scientific evidence that mere exposure to the skin would cause any physical reaction in a person. It's It's nonsense. It's not so all these cutting, of course, you know what these cops look like that are reporting these stories and you know who they are. These white cops that are dying in the streets for just touching fentanyl for seeing the fentanyl they're passing out whatever. It's all that's how fentanyl is reported as this fear mongering as this. No, it's not desperate people who end up in addiction cycles that gets so bad or they turn to a drug this serious. It's fear mongering about the criminals in our country that are putting this stuff in your baby's hands. And that's not the case. These are people that were already likely victims of the opioid crisis. These are people that were already likely addicted to something whether it was you know, X, Y or Z, it doesn't matter. But these weren't. This is not something that fentanyl did not just happen. Fentanyl is not just oh, now fentanyl is on the streets. And it's a symptom of a larger problem. And I get so angry when it becomes about crime and it becomes about the war on it almost like a war on drugs. It's not. We're not going to solve fentanyl, we need to solve the problem that leads Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head the problem that leads people to fentanyl, but how can we ever do that when it's reported in such a sense that makes people fear the very idea of a fentanyl addict or feel the fear of the very idea of going to a city where fentanyl is prevalent? Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 19:32
I think that I think there is a criminal element to this. And my mama and my and my thinking is basically this. That Originally, the intention of the of the drug was was was for a good purpose. And the people who were producing the drug, maybe initially
Unknown Speaker 19:54
I mean, this is for people with stage four renal cancer, people that otherwise would not even be able to get Out of matter,
Unknown Speaker 20:00
I mean, even even like with dental procedures, there's an element of fentanyl that they use when you're when you're going to have a certain kind of work done. But I think I think what's what's been overlooked here is the corporate responsibility of the makers of these drugs, particularly is particularly to the aggressor move, move aside for a bit, all the opioids that have been sold by the major drug manufacturers in this country, right, and basically escaping any any criminal liability for what they did, because everything can be bought off. And I think that's a bigger issue that we have in our country, is that we don't have corporate responsibility. And we don't have a system of laws in our country, where people who commit these crimes hiding under the guise of of a corporation are punished. And I think that does a couple of things. One thing obviously, is it doesn't discourage them from doing it the same thing again with another drug, right? If they can find they can make money from it. But it also leads to a certain feeling among the among the population, that the idea that the laws or acquire are equivalent for everybody is a joke. And I think that's one of the things that's happened in our country, is that the rule of law has, has slowly but surely corroded. So they'll see people commit outlandish crimes, nothing is done about them,
Unknown Speaker 21:36
or the rule of law exists for local people of a lower socioeconomic status. Rule of law does not exist for people of a higher socioeconomic status. It's sort of given free rein. So and then I think it's fair to say if there's rule of law for some, but not for all, is there any rule of law?
Unknown Speaker 21:55
Yeah, no. Well, no, it's Well, was it we were seeing it with the we're seeing it now with the the investigation of January 6, I mean, I think I think that's a perfect example. I think that whatever side of the coin, you're on as far as your political beliefs, we know that that was what happened that day was completely
Unknown Speaker 22:19
you know, what I have almost seen a push in the past few weeks and months to why watered down with that is to sort of pretend that it wasn't as violent and as horrifying. And just that the whole country wasn't was sitting by an abject horror at what was unfolding on their television screens, downplaying it, very much a downplaying of what we saw in because there's no justification for what we saw. But I have seen a huge trend in people's now. Was it really that violent? Or who actually died? We, I mean, things of that nature have been popping up and creeping up in popular spaces of the
Unknown Speaker 22:55
internet. We have we, we have now, two sets of news in our country. Yes, we have news like that. There's one set of news that are facts like you and I are here today. And then there's another set of facts. They're not really in the studio, there's two people who are imposters, right, and they've taken over, you went over the radio, and they're sending out all these false messages about what's going on in our country. And I think it's it's permeated almost all of our all of our shows, when you turn them around on, you know, on, I was watching, it was funny, I was visiting a friend of mine while I was away. And they actually have a, it's a kind of an app, where you can literally get every news station, every news network on this one app. And they're all across the board.
Unknown Speaker 23:47
Things weren't meant to consume this much or know this much, or, you know, we weren't supposed to know about, you know, some crime spree in another country to then stoke fear about us on the home. And I would encourage, if you're not already listeners of the show, to focus more on locally bleep based news program, and locally based publications, usually those people are in your community. These are the people that shop at the same grocery stores as you reporting on things that are happening there. And they have less of a and aren't incentivized to have a political lien. That is not to say that there are not local news stations across this country with horrendous political liens. But by and large, consumption of local media is better. I think for just better in the sense that you're obtaining things that I think are hard to put a spin on the car accident happened here. X happened here, the weather will be x. It doesn't have to be so politically and geopolitically charged. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 24:44
it's just the experience when I was I was at a dinner one night while I was away. And one of the things that came up was was the the Apple phone and this this revolutionary thing It was created, right. And they had they had Steve Jobs on. And he was explaining the phone and all the rest of it and stuff. I think two things have happened in the country. Well, not just the country, the world. I think technology has outpaced people's ability to comprehend 100%. But yeah, I think that there's so much news. There's so much of everything on almost a minute by minute second by second basis, that you can take it all in. Because of that, because of that. Morality or basic law has become eroded. Because everything is relative. Now,
Unknown Speaker 25:40
you know, when humans advanced over time, it was fire that it was the wheel then it was the it wasn't all the sudden, we had everything you wanted to know all at once. We slowly made advancements, one major advancement at a time technology. And the iPhone in general, was the first I think, piece of tech that was beyond just a simple advancement. It was all of the sudden, we knew a few two, we could know anything and everything at any given moment. The second we wanted to know it. We were never meant to advance that fast. We can't copy I think you're 100%. Right. We were never meant to move at this pace. We have never in history had a an advancement. I think that that and that everybody had access to all at once. The whole world. I mean, there are people in countries where they do not have a stable government, but they will have a cell phone. Yeah. Where they do not have a police. They can vote but they have an iPhone. Yeah. Crazy. Yeah, I
Unknown Speaker 26:37
think I think his case was very, very interesting. His personal case, right? Because he was a brilliant man, who was who did revolutionary things. And a lot of these people, and Musk is one of them. But he's not the only one. Their view of like, very basic things is very different than I think most people most people's views are, when he got sick, when he got sick. He consulted with this doctor. And the doctor told him, he says, I have good news for you. And I have bad news for you. He says it's very, very serious. But we can take care of it. And if we do what we're going to do, which I recommend to you, right, will take care of it. He didn't want to do it, he believed knew
Unknown Speaker 27:30
that his time was up, he'd probably didn't want to see the fruits of his own labor. Well,
Unknown Speaker 27:34
he believed he believed in holistic medicine, oh, God, and what's interesting to me, you know, from, from having had some, some health issues in the past, I've come to a realization, you know, for long life is fine, the good doctor, trust in that person and what they say. But most importantly, if you trust in that person, many things in life are an urgency, right? And there's a certain basic science that with all the with all the technology we have, the contradiction is people don't believe in the science, a lot of which they created the technology. And now
Unknown Speaker 28:17
every scientist that has ever lived as a corrupt liberal influence balloon. Yeah, very sick where we've called. What
Unknown Speaker 28:24
was interesting is is in the, in the biography, where where the author came to talk to him in the garden, he lived down or I guess it was around Palo Alto. Right? That was a terrible sadness about it. Because his death was unnecessary. He didn't have to die. Yeah, I
Unknown Speaker 28:43
mean, I wouldn't want to live to see if the iPhone, there's a meme. And I'm sure you know, I don't know if the professor is on Twitter. But a very common meme is we have all lived to see manmade horrors beyond our comprehension. It's like a popular saying that people say manmade horrors beyond beyond our comprehension. I think Steve Jobs is like the embodiment of that meme. I think he had the sort of awareness that he has probably created manmade horrors beyond our comprehension is probably numero uno for that sort of egg for him and gates, right. They started it. So I think, I think yeah, I mean, not to end the show on such a dark note. But people will, ultimately and we've seen it die for incorrect beliefs and die for the idea. I don't think that's exactly the case. The job was I think he just didn't want to see what he had created anymore and was tired. But yeah, there is a willingness to stick with what you want until you hit the grave whether that sends you to your grave or not. Yeah, scary and sad. So we are going to be returning now weekly for this program. As we close out the show. I just wanted to let everybody know we will be maintaining our spot at 630 Pacific and 930. Eastern and this is show is going to continue to air at Thursday nights. Thank you guys for listening. You know we do always appreciate people that want to hear conversations like this that you know aren't about sports and aren't about talk right Do in our, you know, regular old podcast typically don't want to make the world a better place every day. So we appreciate when you come and listen to us when we tried to do that so well
Unknown Speaker 30:09
certainly because the the audience makes the show and we are merely the humble messengers.
Unknown Speaker 30:16
And with that, thank you and good night. Good night. Thank you for listening to our show. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us at weather one that's w e t h e l one@nevada.unlv.edu. Or to contact Professor Charles Stanton, contact him at CHA R L E S That's Charles dot Stanton s t a n t o n@unlv.edu CNN axon
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