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The Distillery podcast explores what motivates the work of Christian scholars and why it matters for theology and ministry.
Shari Oosting:
Baptism is a foundational practice and is considered a sacrament in most Christian churches. This ancient practice has been significant since Jesus was baptized in the Jordan River. Churches today have divergent theologies and ways of baptizing people, but in today's interview, Sarah Barton shares what can be learned about baptism across these theological and practical differences by learning from people with intellectual disabilities. Her recent book is “Becoming the Baptized Body: Disability and the Practice of Christian Community.” Barton is a theologian with dual appointments at Duke Divinity School and the Duke University School of Medicine, in the Occupational Therapy Doctorate division. She serves as both a pediatric occupational therapist and a theologian. You are listening to The Distillery at Princeton Theological Seminary.
Sarah, thank you so much for talking with me today.
Sarah Barton:
Thanks for inviting me, Shari. I'm really happy to be here.
Shari Oosting:
So, let's dive right in. Today we're going to be talking about baptism, and ability, and disability. So, could you get us started by sharing what sparked your interest in this topic?
Sarah Barton:
Sure. So, I've been an occupational therapist for over a decade, and when I was doing my theological training, I worked as an OT alongside doing school, and I always felt like it was this amazing context that really informed the theological questions I was asking, and the work I was doing in academia. And then what I was learning in academia also came to influence some of the ways I practiced as an OT. But I met a patient one day who I saw about every six months, and I will say that this patient and her family have given consent for this story to be shared—and I'm also using pseudonyms to protect their privacy a bit—but I had a patient, an adolescent girl who we'll call Halle. I ended up seeing her about every six months at this multidisciplinary clinic at the health system I was working in. And the first time I ever met her, I came out to meet her and her mother in the waiting area, and her mother was kind of sizing me up—she had never seen me before, and she was like, "Uh, are you old enough to be an OT? How long have you worked here? Do you know what you're doing?" And—absolutely, especially on behalf of—
Shari Oosting:
—naturally, someone sizes up—
Sarah Barton:
—your child. And I was like, totally normal. I'll have a conversation with her. I was like, "Hey, I only work here a few days a week. This is probably why you haven't seen me around the clinic before. I promise I've been practicing for many years, and I actually study theology on the side, and I, right now, am thinking about folks with intellectual disabilities”—which her daughter Halle had an intellectual disability—"and Christian practices, and particularly the practice of baptism." And she kind of just got this shocked look in her eyes. And she proceeded to pour out this story about how they had been searching for a church for years who would baptize her daughter, Halle, and they had not found a church. They're part of a credobaptist tradition—so, a tradition that typically invites people to give a spoken testimony of faith, or kind of get up in front of the congregation and talk about their belief in Jesus prior to baptism. But Halle is non-speaking, so she doesn't communicate with words. And she communicates in a lot of other ways, she has a really vibrant personality, kind of this infectious joy, and has a lot of other ways that she lets people know what she's enjoying and what she needs. But she does not—she would not be able to say, "I'm a disciple of Jesus," or, "I believe in Jesus." And so, as they went from church to church, they were never able to find a pastor who would affirm Halle's faith. Some pastors were like, "She's too disruptive, we don't even want her in the church, let alone baptizing her." Another pastor said to them, "I don't think it matters if she's baptized or not, because she doesn't understand what's happening, so why would we even baptize her?" And Halle and her mom had eventually just kind of fallen away from the church, which I don't blame them for, this repeated kind of baptismal denial. And their story, obviously, is really, I think, tragic and striking, and it kind of stuck with me. I couldn't get that story out of my head. It's like this wound that was kind of ripped open, and obviously a wound in their lives. And so, because I couldn't forget it, and because I was doing this work more broadly on disability and Christian practice, I thought, is this the case for a lot of people with intellectual disabilities? That they're facing baptismal denial, or facing exclusion from church communities based on whether or not they can confess verbally their faith in Jesus? And so that's kind of where it all started for me.
Shari Oosting:
Yeah. And what did you find as you began to talk to others? Was that experience shared by a lot of other people, or were there other stories that differed quite a bit from that?
Sarah Barton:
Yeah, thankfully there were a diversity of stories that I encountered. And I ended up hanging out with a little over thirty folks across the state of North Carolina from all different kinds of Christian traditions. So, not only traditions that ask for people to make a verbal confession, or be of an age of accountability before they're baptized, but also traditions that baptize infants and small children. And yeah, I talked to folks, primarily folks with intellectual disabilities, and hung out with their families, but then also did work with faith leaders in churches, with folks with intellectual disabilities. And so many of these churches are doing amazing work that really honors the leadership, the gifts, the—what I would say—baptismal vocation, baptismal identity of folks with intellectual disabilities. And unlike in Halle's situation, there are pastors and communities that said, "Yes, you are a follower of Jesus. We are not who we are as the body of Jesus without you, and we welcome you through baptism and all these other ways." And then there were also some other stories where people had challenges in terms of maybe the church that they had started going to as a young couple, and then they had a child with a disability, that church wasn't willing to honor the dignity of their child, or honor baptismal promises that were made, or baptize them in general. So, stories of people seeking new faith communities, and finding beauty and belonging in new places, but also experiencing the exclusion and denial like Halle did. But thankfully, no one else besides Halle had these repeated experiences of that.
So, I would say I was actually surprised in the research that I did over the course of the year. There are many more stories of really rich belonging, and a really rich sense of baptism as a meaningful piece of the identity of Christians with intellectual disabilities, just as it would be in an identity for any Christian, whether they're disabled or non-disabled. And so, I was glad to have a richer picture of how churches are really practicing baptism in a way that honors disabled folks as well as non-disabled Christians.
Shari Oosting:
Yeah, yeah. We'll get to some of those stories in a bit too. I'm curious, before we go there, if you could unpack a little bit about why the practice of baptism, as a window into churches’ practices around ability, versus, say, prayer or communion—was there a particular reason that baptism was of interest to you?
Sarah Barton:
That's a great question. Baptism can be, I think, kind of a contentious thing for different communities who have different practices. But it's also one of these marks of Christian unity; that Christians are the people who welcome folks into Jesus' body with this practice of water and then triune name. And so, I was curious about the shared practice across really, really different and diverse Christian traditions, and what that means for affirming the discipleship and the belonging of disabled people, and really calling churches and pastors and families and individuals to account for ways that we have excluded disabled people in our communities in the past, and maybe trying to pave a new way forward. And what better practice than the practice of initiation, of welcome, of membership? Again, there's a lot of different ways about talking about baptism, but of welcome into Jesus' body.
Shari Oosting:
Yeah.
Sarah Barton:
It just seemed super appropriate for thinking about, historically, people with disabilities being excluded from churches, and what would it mean to take a fresh look at this ancient Christian tradition, ritual, sacrament of welcoming everyone into the body of Christ?
Shari Oosting:
Yeah. It's striking that churches can disagree about baptism, because most churches baptize, right? So, one of the reasons you get to disagree about baptism is because it is so integral to the Christian faith and has been since the beginning. So, you write a bit about that in the way that people resonate with the baptismal story of Jesus. Can you share a bit about why that's so significant in this conversation?
Sarah Barton:
Yeah. So, one of the things about the book, and the research that I did for the book, is that I was really focused on amplifying the voices and perspectives and experiences of the disabled folks, and the disabled and non-disabled clergy, and the disabled and non-disabled support and family folks that I interviewed. And so, because of that, I really wanted to take their lead in terms of the themes around baptism and their experiences of baptismal practice that seemed most central to how they were making meaning of their identities as disciples—how they were participating in church communities. So, I had ideas and hunches that I brought to the research, I can't come in as a totally exterior, or just neutral person—I have my life experiences and everything I'm bringing. But one thing that really surprised me at the time, but now makes a lot of sense, is that there was such a strong focus on stories of Jesus' baptism in the Gospels. And especially for many of my disabled participants, being named in their own baptisms—whether or not they remembered it, or they had been baptized as a young child or an infant and they were practicing baptismal remembrance in their church, or seeing other people baptized—but this identification that they were beloved children of God, just as Jesus is named by God the Father as God's beloved, and Jesus's baptism in the Jordan River—that was so important to many, many, many research participants. It was just really striking. And what an amazing thing to affirm, especially for folks who find themselves often not called beloved, unfortunately in the church, but also in general community contexts; in schools, in facing discrimination in employment because of a disability. To be able to come back to this core practice of the Christian faith and say, "What really matters is that I am a beloved one of God, just like Jesus was. I am baptized just as Jesus was, and this is a point in my life where I can point to and be certain of my belovedness." I think that's so beautiful.
Shari Oosting:
Yeah. And I want to point out, you do something in our conversation that you do repeatedly throughout the book, and it's an intentional choice about how you've chosen to approach this topic, which I think provides some good disruption for people who lead in ministry, and who do theological research, which is to say that you are going to do theology and do this kind of reflection with people who have intellectual disabilities, not simply about them. Can you say a bit about what motivated that choice for you, and what kind of gifts you think that offers?
Sarah Barton:
Sure. So, I think all theology, at baseline, is done in partnership. I think my theology would be really boring if I just sat at my desk all day and did it by myself.
Shari Oosting:
And we don't want to be boring!
Sarah Barton:
I think we're people who are gathered together in Jesus's name, and if we're not doing the gathering together part, I'm a little bit skeptical of what comes out of that. So, I think the form of the theology that I try and do lends itself to this gathering. Stories are really important. Being a part of faith communities, of lived communities of practice is really key for the kind of work I'm doing. And so, it would be kind of silly for me to try and ignore the baptismal practices that I saw, or the conversations that I had with people, or the experiences in worshiping with other people, and then say, "I'm going to go sit alone for six months now and write this book."
So, the kind of work I do, I think it just lends itself to this kind of partnership and Christian community, in some ways. We can—I think we should enter a space where we collaborate with one another, and truly live out this baptismal vision of—the body of Jesus is indispensable without each person, even if we really don't like them, even if they have an identity that is challenging for us to understand or identify with, they are an indispensable part of Jesus' body of the church, and they have something to teach us about what it means to follow Jesus.
Shari Oosting:
Yeah. And disability theology, I think, creates this spaciousness for people's differences, rather than saying we're all the same—in our unity in Christ, we're somehow all the same. Instead, there's this kind of gift in difference.
Sarah Barton:
Absolutely. And I think disability theology too—many folks talk about disability as an unsurprising aspect of being a human being. So, disability might be more neutral than people typically think about it as. Like I said before, I don't see disability as a tragedy, or something that we need to erase or get rid of. Disability is another way of being human, therefore another way of being Christian and following Jesus. And I think really interesting things emerge when we pay attention to that and honor that.
Shari Oosting:
So, I want to turn towards some of the practices that you identify. You identify three in particular that really demonstrate the gift of an inclusive baptismal theology: preparation, testimony, and reaffirmation. And I'm wondering if you can share a story or two about the way in which people with intellectual disabilities have helped you better understand some of those practices?
Sarah Barton:
Yeah, this is—there's so many stories. This is a great question. I will try and pare it down to just one or two. I think baptismal testimony is one of these practices—again, the research kind of bubbled up these three practices that were happening across the congregations that I was working with, and worshiping with, and spending time with. And I think the one that struck me most significantly at first, and still has stuck with me, is this idea around baptismal testimony, and what that looks like for people with and without disabilities in Christian contexts. So, this idea kind of started—it was happening at multiple churches that I was a part of, and I was having a conversation with a lay member of one of the churches, and she was telling me how she had often been discouraged because she felt like the church really lifted up things that were kind of basic accomplishments that people would complete in their life—things like graduating from high school, or getting a new job, or getting married. And she wasn't saying that the church shouldn't pay attention to these things, or shouldn't celebrate with people in their joy, but she really felt like, often, church communities, and particularly a previous church community that she had been a part of, had really focused on those things—like, celebrated those things on Sunday mornings, and throughout newsletters, or email bulletins, or things like that. And she started to notice, hey, what happens to people, again, either non-disabled or disabled Christians, who aren't having these successes, or these markers of—
Shari Oosting:
Someone who may not get married, or never graduate from high school or college?
Sarah Barton:
Exactly. How are we also celebrating their joys? And so, we ended up talking about these practices of baptismal testimony that would happen. And I think when a lot of us think about baptismal testimony, we might think about someone going up before their congregation and sharing their story of coming to the faith or following Jesus. But in the work for this book, baptismal testimony certainly includes that. But I think it also is the marking in church communities of baptismal anniversaries, or the marking by a community of someone's discipleship, whether or not someone can speak their own testimony or write their own testimony. One of the amazing practices that I saw, especially in a Baptist church, was to have the community come together, so friends and family and other people in the church, and before someone was baptized, they would read—or they would actually never read themselves, but have someone else read the story of their faith as it had impacted and influenced that community. So, giving a testimony became not just a personal story about following Jesus—which again, those stories and testimonies are so beautiful and needed, but in these faith communities, it became this communal act of people writing this testimony together, and then someone else telling the church what this person's faith in Jesus looked like, and really affirming their discipleship, which, again is just an amazing practice for anyone. But when we're talking about disciples who are non-speaking, which includes some people with intellectual disabilities, there's also people who are non-speaking who don't have an intellectual disability, so I want to be careful to share that as well. But, I mean, how amazing would it be to have our faith and our indispensability in Jesus' body as baptized members of Jesus' body and the church, be affirmed every year on the anniversary of our baptism by having a small group of people at our church come around us and say, "This is how I've seen the Holy Spirit working in your life. This is how I've seen your faith at work in this community. This is why we need you. This is why you belong." It kind of goes back to just a practice of proclaiming that belovedness by God that is affirmed in our baptisms.
Shari Oosting:
And what a beautiful way for the community to hold that together—
Sarah Barton:
Yes! Yes!
Shari Oosting:
—that would be beautiful for anyone, whether or not they have a disability. I love that.
Sarah Barton:
Absolutely. And I think too—shifting to this practice of reaffirmation—one of the participants in my research was a younger man named Bob. Again, it's a pseudonym, it's this fake name to just kind of protect privacy. But Bob is non-speaking, has an intellectual disability, and struggled in church for many years, just basically getting comfortable. He had been in this church, been baptized in this church, I think when he was three or four, and went through a period of adolescence, as we all do, with a little bit of turmoil. And he would throw chairs, or just be really uncomfortable in church setting. And this happened to be an Episcopal church. I didn't only interview other Episcopalians, but I did interview a few other Episcopalians.
Shari Oosting:
You didn't exclude them, either.
Sarah Barton:
Yes! All are welcome in the baptismal research. So, Bob's family and priest and fellow church members noticed that, in times when their church would celebrate the liturgy of baptismal remembrance or reaffirmation, that Bob would just be completely mesmerized by these liturgies and felt completely comfortable and completely at home. And this church community kind of, out of their commitment to the notion that all disciples have a baptismal identity—all baptized Christians are gifted by the Holy Spirit with gifts for ministry, whether that ministry is lay or ordained—they kind of took another look, and worked with Bob and his family, not to say, "Gosh, you're really disruptive. I think you need to leave the church, or take a break, or not be in Sunday service." But they took the opportunity to say, "Okay, what's going on? What is Bob trying to tell us with these discomforts and difficulties that he's been experiencing, in light of the fact that we know that the Holy Spirit has gifted him with gifts for ministry?" And folks ended up starting to notice that not only was Bob really captivated by this baptismal remembrance liturgy, but also really captivated by the music ministry at the church. So, they started working with Bob, and kind of carving out a role for him to assist with the choir, always having a reserved spot for him next to the choir—which, if we think about it, honestly, everyone, disabled or non-disabled, has their spot at church. I know I'm like, "Oh my gosh, there's not a spot in the back row. I might have to leave." So, I feel this deeply—that space and where we are in church matters for our participation and our comfort. But people took the time, based on Bob's baptismal vocation and baptismal identity, to start to try and notice these things, and working together to support him. And ever since they recognized that Bob just really wanted to be close to the music, and there were needs, honestly, that the choir had, that the director had—Bob doesn't sing, he’s a musical—he enjoys music, but he didn't show any interest in being a choir member—but now he supports the choir with laying out music, and kind of helping with the choreography of the choir entering and exiting this particular sanctuary. And I think that is the fruit of—and folks at this church would say that is the fruit of remembering Bob's baptism, and remembering anyone's baptism, is that what could have been a situation where they said, "Gosh, Bob's being disruptive. Gosh, this person doesn't really seem to fit in at our church," whether that's a person with or without a disability, they instead said, "We, together in liturgy, are remembering that we have all been baptized, and we have been drawn together in Jesus' body, and in this particular church together. And we affirm that we want to honor the belovedness, the dignity of one another. And so that is going to drive our welcome of who Bob is, and our coming around Bob and supporting of his vocation and discipleship." And so, I think that's the way, one way, out of many, that I've seen that practice be really powerful in shaping a community's imagination about ministry, and about what it means for people with and without disabilities to actively take a part in the work of ministry—whether that's setting out music for the choir or celebrating the Eucharist. There are many different parts of the body, and many different shapes that ministry can take.
Shari Oosting:
Yeah, I feel like that story about Bob is such an encouragement to people in churches, to all of us, to think about paying attention to each other's gifts—
Sarah Barton:
Yes!
Shari Oosting:
—and what [inaudible] brings into the space. And sometimes it's really quite simple. To foster a sense of belonging, and celebrate each other's gifts, is both an extravagant thing, but it's sometimes also a very simple thing, that I think we can all learn from each other what that looks like. And that's such a beautiful counterexample to a story of someone who's not allowed to participate or is asked to leave. Yeah, I love that story.
Sarah Barton:
Yeah, me too. And it's still complicated, you know? It's hard to do that. It is simple, and it is quite profound to honor one another's gifts, and discern together in community what people's ministries look like. But that's also slow work that doesn't just happen overnight. We don't make a checklist—
Shari Oosting:
No, it doesn't happen by itself either. Yeah.
Sarah Barton:
—yeah, you don't make a checklist and be like, "Boom, boom, boom. We're going to assign everyone to a ministry and they'll be great. We'll do an Excel spreadsheet, it'll be fine."
Shari Oosting:
Yeah, yeah.
Sarah Barton:
So yeah, I honor that story, and also am in amazement at the church's commitment to doing that hard, long, slow work, especially sometimes the community might discern what someone's ministry might look like, and then it might turn out that that's actually not the shape of their ministry. And so, it's kind of like back to the drawing board. But I think communities who are rooted in this sense of just extravagant confidence in what the Holy Spirit is doing, and just an imagination that the Holy Spirit is up to something wonderful, and probably beyond what we could expect or imagine for other people, is just a beautiful outflowing of some of these baptismal theologies that I saw in action.
Shari Oosting:
Yeah, I think “extravagant confidence” is a great note to end on.
Sarah Barton:
Perfect.
Shari Oosting:
Thank you so much for talking with me today, Sarah.
Sarah Barton:
Thanks, Shari.
Shari Oosting:
You've been listening to The Distillery at Princeton Theological Seminary. Interviews are conducted by me, Shari Oosting. Our editorial and production staff include Nathanael Hood and Byron Walker. Like what you're hearing? Subscribe on your favorite podcast app, and don't forget to leave us a review. Even better, share an episode with a friend. The Distillery is a production of Continuing Education at Princeton Theological Seminary. Until next time, thanks for listening.