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Work like you’re not a parent.
Parent like you don’t work.
What if that whole system is wrong?
This is Full Stack Moms, and we are Mallory Lee and Shannon Curran, two working moms navigating tech careers, parenting, and everything in between. We talk about why the traditional rules of work don’t fit modern parents and how women in tech are doing things differently. Through honest conversations and behind-the-scenes stories, this show explores careers, caregiving, ambition, and the messy reality of having it all, just not all at once.
Connect with Mallory: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mallorylee/
Connect with Shannon: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shannon-sweeny-curran/
Produced in partnership with Share Your Genius
www.shareyourgenius.com
[00:00:00] Rachel Nazhand: It's a constant dance of who's where, where's the ballet shoes? Are you taking them to football? It's, you know, it's, it's all those angles of, the trade-off and the balance. But it, what it allows for is when I am with my kids, like my phone's in the other room, it's full on and it's just, it almost feels like I've kind of got 100% in both buckets when I'm in both identities.
[00:00:21] Mallory Lee: This is Full Stack Moms.
[00:00:24] Shannon Curran: This is not a parenting podcast nor a business podcast, but a place where we talk building careers in tech, raising kids at home, and making it work in public. . Rachel with the good hair. How are you doing today?
[00:00:38] Rachel Nazhand: For you guys
[00:00:40] Shannon Curran: Good. We've just been rolling this whole time, just warning you. We're, they were just, we just start recording at the beginning.
[00:00:45] Rachel Nazhand: Perfect. Perfect. I, uh, I am mentally ready despite not being physically digitally ready, so
[00:00:53] Shannon Curran: all good.
[00:00:53] Rachel Nazhand: roll with that emotionally
[00:00:56] Mallory Lee: Well, okay. So to dive in, um, [00:01:00] please just give us like the fast facts about you and your family and your work
[00:01:06] Rachel Nazhand: I am Rachel Nazhand. I'm New York-based. I've been back and forth, uh, between DC and New York for quite some time, so East Coast tends to be the fastest answer. I've got two little kids. They're three and six, and they are wonderful. my work has taken me through all kinds of operations, which is how Mallory and I connected as internet friends many years ago.
But I've worked as an operator in startup environments, high-growth environments, pre-IPO, corporate, pre-seed, every kind of stage of B2B2C companies. So it's been a fun lens to operate in. In terms of my village, I, um, I've been solo parenting for the past couple of years, and so I co-parent my two little kids, which has its ups and downs and challenges, but in general they...
it makes my little two... We're, we're a trio. And so my time with them is incredibly special, but then it [00:02:00] also gives me the space to focus on my career. So it's an interesting, it's an interesting time to be a working mom, to say the least.
[00:02:08] Mallory Lee: I bet. I bet. And so, when you are with the kids, you're in Virginia, and when you're not in the kids, with the kids, you're in New York, is that correct?
[00:02:18] Rachel Nazhand: I am super commuting. Yes. It, um, it takes a minute to describe at a, at a networking event, but yes, it's, it, it's what works for our family. Um, my first kid was born here in New York in 2020, which was a wild time to be starting a family for many reasons. Uh, yes, that was, that was an adventure. And then my second was born in DC, and so they're in an amazing little school system down there, but my work takes me to New York, so it's, uh, best of both worlds.
But I'm an Amtrak warrior these days
[00:02:52] Shannon Curran: Wild
[00:02:53] Mallory Lee: awesome 'cause you can work on the train. Like, I would totally do that
[00:02:56] Rachel Nazhand: Oh, yeah. Oh, I have a whole
[00:02:58] Mallory Lee: and work.
[00:02:59] Rachel Nazhand: Yeah. I [00:03:00] mean, my inner op- I, I think it speaks to my inner operator just to be constantly optimizing the, the back and forth
[00:03:05] Mallory Lee: And how big is the company that you're at now?
[00:03:07] Rachel Nazhand: we've been around about 10 years. It's about 40 people. I have 20-some on my team, so I do everything but build it and sell it, so all the operations and fulfillment. So it's been an interesting combination of a lot of the different iterations that my career has had over the years to operating in these kind of big environments, small environments, and kind of everything in between
[00:03:30] Mallory Lee:
[00:03:30] Shannon Curran: Margaret actually has a kind of similar setup to you, Rachel. I don't know if you've listened to her episode, but she also solo parents for a significant amount of time, and she does have a partner that also solo parents and lives in a different state. So like sometimes they have both their, like all of their kids, sometimes they have half their kids.
It's like a very interesting setup. actually saw her in New York at the beginning of this week and was reminded like neither one of them had their kids for the first half of the week. So how do you like structure that with work? Do you th- do you like, obviously I'm sure you [00:04:00] have a pretty consistent schedule with the kids, so do you try and like manage work travel around your schedule?
Do you try and manage your ... I assume you're a W-2, so maybe less flexible, but maybe not. Like how do you navigate that?
[00:04:11] Rachel Nazhand: Yeah. Yes, I am in a W2 chapter right now. I have spent some time working as a fractional, but W2 is, i- it's, it's working for my current life. my schedule's actually not very set. we joke that we're set on 50/50 and that's kind of, I travel quite a bit for work. My co-parent travels quite a bit for work.
And so we are constantly trading off, which at this phase of my kids' life works okay because for them is, you know, there's access and there's love and there's care and all those things. but there's not yet sports schedules and strict, you know, they don't... For a six-year-old, a Tuesday kind of does feel like a Friday.
And so for them it's a
little bit, it's a little easier. so I have a, I have a loose schedule. I, I like to be in New York for my exec meetings weekly and so that's, that's one kind of guideline and then we kind of work around, travel schedules [00:05:00] and, and shuffle things that way. but it, I think it's always evolving and as the kids get older and, as school schedules change I think we'll, we'll adapt to that and then we'll see.
But I think it's a, it's a constant, it's a constant dance of who's where, where's the ballet shoes? Are you taking them to football? It's, you know, it's, it's all those angles of, the trade-off and the balance. But it, what it allows for is when I am with my kids, like my phone's in the other room, it's full on and it's just, it almost feels like I've kind of got 100% in both buckets when I'm in both identities.
Um, and then when I'm working, especially because I'm physically in New York most of the time, when the kids are with their dad, it means that, you know, working late, it doesn't carry the same guilt 'cause I'm not missing. I, I'm doing air quotes on that but I'm not missing anything. And so it's an interesting kind of almost all or nothing mentality which it, it comes with pros and cons but then also means when I miss them, I miss them [00:06:00] aggressively.
So it's, it's an interesting, it's an interesting balance.
[00:06:04] Mallory Lee: you know, it's almost like you have two personas that you get to be, which I think is kind of fun. but when you are not with them, is the mental load still there to the extent where you're still thinking about like, "Oh, they're supposed to be here right now.
I wonder if they're there"?
[00:06:24] Rachel Nazhand: I'm shaking my head because it's very different. And Shannon, I, I know you've mentioned in previous episodes as well, It feels similar to the first day I took my kid, my firstborn, to daycare, which he went when he was two. So my early childcare arrangement for both kids, they had a similar experience where the first two years they were with a nanny or, like, a solo caregiver.
So my son had a nanny here in New York, uh, and he went to daycare for the first time at age two, so a 2K program. And it was the pandemic when he had that nanny, so I was in a small Manhattan apartment, the nanny was in and out. It was luxurious in so many ways, and I, I joke that she was like my mom, [00:07:00] too.
the day that I took, my big kid to daycare and dropped him off and came back to a quiet apartment, it felt like, "Ah." Because I didn't have that same mental load, even though I wasn't the primary person in charge, right? She was fully in charge of the child, but they're coming into the house, and I was wondering about the schedule, and is he sleeping okay?
Is he... But when they're at daycare, they're not... Like, I can't tell them when to sleep, eat, you know, what to wear, what to do. And so it's similar to that sensation when I'm not the primary parent. It's like, yeah, of course, I'm thinking about them all the time, but I can't do anything about it, so the mental load does feel quite different
[00:07:38] Shannon Curran: And is the oldest one at an age where, like, she wants to c- or he wants to call you? Like, when you're not there, like you're not the primary parent? Like, is there... I feel like that probably has recently changed, right? Maybe? I don't know. I feel like my three-year-old's just getting to that place, but he doesn't actually wanna talk to me when he calls.
He just wants to, like, look at himself on FaceTime. But I don't know if that happens to
[00:07:58] Rachel Nazhand: Yeah. what's [00:08:00] funny is, so I, I went back to travel fairly early, so despite it being... So he was born in July of 2020.
but my travel resumed before he'd even turned one. And so my kids have kind of always been used to being solo parented, so that transition wasn't quite so hard.
So to your question about the kind of the FaceTime piece, not really. So they're big on voice memos. So I don't know if you do this with your- friend groups as well, but we joke we have the friendship pod, where we're all so busy. A lot of my female friends are also working moms, and so we send the voice notes back and forth.
My kids do that. So they'll grab each of our phones and send these long, like, "Mama, Mama, there's no yogurt." Like, "I can't help you, baby." And so it's just a funny little glimpse into their world that feels a little less- Mm-hmm ... like torture-y, you know? 'Cause they're just so joyful in the notes versus, like, they don't feel like they're missing out.[00:09:00]
[00:09:01] Shannon Curran: Love that
[00:09:03] Mallory Lee: When I was
growing up, my parents
were divorced, and
there was a period of time where my dad was living in Ohio and my mom and us, we were in Indiana. That's where we went to school. But on the weekends, we would go to Ohio and stay with my dad. And this was during the days of, like, a long-distance phone call, you know?
And so that sort of, like, factor came into play of communication. And one thing that my dad decided to do about that is he paid for this service where, like, him and my mom both got, uh, 1-800 phone numbers. And you, like, dialed a 1-800 phone number, and then you, like, punched in this really long code, and it would
forward to the house.
So I could call either one of them anywhere, anytime, and I would, like, call them from payphones and, you know, just, like, randomness. but that was one way that they tried to [00:10:00] overcome that sort of, you know, "Oh, I wanna call my mom," but, like, "I'm with my dad," and then it's long distance and all these things.
so it was pretty cool. It just, like, made it easier for all of us.
[00:10:12] Rachel Nazhand: Remember those calling? They were like little credit cards, almost like little gift cards. Yeah, and you'd scratch off the number and you have a certain number of minutes. Was it
[00:10:21] Mallory Lee: It wasn't like that. It was like a full-blown, "This is your phone number," situation.
[00:10:27] Rachel Nazhand: Cool. Clever
[00:10:29] Shannon Curran: Als- also Mallory, we've h- filmed how many of these podcasts and I don't know why I didn't know your parents were divorced when you were growing up. Like, I don't know why that would've come up til now, but it's just, like, it just more, we learn, we learn things about each other everyday. You know?
Like, it's just interesting. Yeah. I think especially state to state, that feels complex. But I guess that's, you know, it's, it works, right? If it es- especially there's just so many different setups of families now, like, that look so different. Like, I have some close friends that [00:11:00] are, going to have a baby.
and, like, don't have close family anywhere around, so, like, I, we've fully committed to, like, just potting them into our family. Like, we're all ... I'm like, "I'll just get a third car seat." Like, we'll just do all the thing, like, all the things because it just is gonna have to look different, right?
Like, that's how, you know, how it is, right? And so I think there's, it's really ... Rachel, I'm sure it's gonna be a really cool thing for your kids to say, too, that they lived in multiple places and they did a lot of thing. Like, it's a very cool childhood they're having, right? Like, that is, like, probably something.
[00:11:31] Rachel Nazhand: There's, I'm sure there's many benefits for them, too, Yeah. It's a, it's a funny reframe because I, I joke my, um... So the six-year-old, so they have the house I- they live in in Virginia, which is quite close to their, their little school and outside of DC. And then I've got this apartment here in Brooklyn, which is where I'm talking to you guys today. And so then my...
And then their dad has a, an also a home in Virginia close to the school. And so he was asking and when, as we were doing, as we were going through the transition, uh, one of the things that [00:12:00] we, we would kind of hype our kids up about, and my, my daughter she's, she was quite little when it happened, and so she doesn't really know any different.
But with my son, we would kind of hype him up and say like, "Where else do you have love?" And we're like, "Grandma's house. Where else do you have love?" You know, um, Mamani, which is their, their grandma on his side. And, and we're like, "Where else do you have love?" And he would come up with the craziest answers.
Auntie Anna, which is what my best friend from, from college. it has given us an opportunity to be really intentional about the village. And Shannon, to your point about your friend, I would say going through the divorce as a highly independent person who grew up as a Type A, who worked as an operator, who kind of never let balls drop, it was like the universe forced me to drop balls, if that makes any sense.
And it forced me to rely on my village in a way that I never had to before, 'cause I could be so insular. And so what a gift that was for the way I parented and the way I showed up, um, to kind of create these new versions of experiences for them and for me, [00:13:00] honestly. And so yeah, it is, uh, it's funny where he's like , he's like, " Baba, when are you gonna get ano- another apartment?"
I'm like, "Whoa, kids. Like you don't ... This is not normal. I need you to know that." And
[00:13:13] Shannon Curran: Doesn't everyone have three houses? Doesn't everyone have three houses?
[00:13:17] Rachel Nazhand: Like, I think this needs a bit of context.
Um,
I know. He's, he's telling some wild stories. Um, it feels like back when I was hiring a nanny in Manhattan for the first time where I was like, "I gotta be clear.
There's one apartment. There's no home out east. There's no home out west. Like, I will shower you with love and not, you know, extremities." But it
[00:13:37] Shannon Curran: Extras
[00:13:38] Rachel Nazhand: it does, uh, it does create some funny conversations where it's like, oh, this, it actually is a quite reasonable situation, but it does sound, um, very over the top.
[00:13:47] Mallory Lee: I remember when we were talking a couple weekends ago, I was learning all about your Brooklyn apartment, and one thing I learned is that you've also kind of started this whole other side business where you can Airbnb [00:14:00] it when you're not there. And I was like, "Man, that's so freaking smart."
Like, you're just really smart, and I was impressed about that too
[00:14:08] Rachel Nazhand: very kind. So, um, yes, actually what I do, so when, when I had my first in Manhattan, hotels are crazy. My parents live in Virginia. Um, and so for them it's about an eight hou- eight-hour drive to get to the city. So for them to see their, their grand baby, for them to get a hotel was pretty, it was pretty cost prohibitive, and it just like wasn't very great.
They couldn't really visit the kid. And I was part of a moms group, which like, if I were to give a tip to any new mom, especially working moms, like find a village by any way possible. And so for me, these moms groups in New York are like, we call it the Mama Mafia, and these are people that would
[00:14:46] Shannon Curran: Sydney has one too, right? I feel like Sydney's talked about hers. Like she
[00:14:49] Rachel Nazhand: Oh, you need one.
Yeah. It makes such a difference in the parenting world. And so people would offer up their apartments for visiting parents. And so it was such a gift to me [00:15:00] when, um, when we h- when we had my first, and they had these, like, people's homes that would be opened up and they could stay in. And so when I got this place, it was, I mean, certainly it's financially, uh, beneficial to me, but it's also a little bit of an altruistic thing.
So I have a, like, the people that stay here aren't just some random on Airbnb. It tends to be people's parents. And so next week I have her, um, this woman's mom is visiting from Italy, and she's gonna come stay here for a couple weeks. Then, um, Jim and Nancy come visit from the Midwest to come see their grandbaby.
And so it feels a little like that's my other way of, like, paying rent, but also, um, giving back to the village
I love that. It also, like, I was saying I was just in New York this week, and it's one of those moments where you just remember the power of community when you go to a dense city of, like, how much folks have to live in community with one another to be able to survive. Like, it's like everything is shared, right?
[00:15:58] Shannon Curran: Like, everything about [00:16:00] an urban environment is shared, right? Like, that is just the nature of, like, subway and street, like, uh, parks, and, like, like, no one has a backyard, right? Like, very few people, right? Like, I guess maybe in the West Village, maybe in Brooklyn. But there, there's, like, very f- like, few places that are like that.
And it's funny when you move out to the suburbs, like a place like where I live, it does become really isolating when everyone drives. So, like, you're o- you're not even interacting in, when you're trans- like, in transportation. Like, it is definitely a very different experience, and I, even seeing, like, moms with, like, three kids attached to a stroller, like, in Manhattan, like, literally going...
I'm like, "How?" Like, I like watching that, and I'm like, but, you know, it works, right? Like, Sydney literally rides her bike to Costco. Like, I'm, like, looking at all of these things like, "This is crazy." And, but it is such an amazing thing to watch the community of a place like New York or even in, when I go to Boston, like, places, like, it's really cool to see kids growing up like that.
Like, 'cause it is very different than I grew up and very different than my kids are growing up. I remember considering wanting to have at least [00:17:00] one kid in the city, and my husband was like, "Absolutely not." And I was like, "Okay, fine."
[00:17:06] Mallory Lee: At least he settled that for you quickly.
[00:17:09] Shannon Curran: Oh yeah. He was like, "Not with this husband." And I was like, "Okay, that's fine."
[00:17:13] Rachel Nazhand: Clarity is a gift, right?
[00:17:15] Shannon Curran: He's like, "Get me a tree." I was like, "Okay, that's fine." Yeah.
[00:17:18] Rachel Nazhand: Just one. Just one treat. That's your compromise.
[00:17:20] Shannon Curran: Just one tree. Yeah.
[00:17:21] Rachel Nazhand: having one kid in a city and then having one kid in the suburbs... So when my daughter was born, I lived just outside of DC in the suburbs, and so she was a car seat baby. And so having one of each, I feel like a, an expert on the topic, as you might imagine.
But, um, having an infant in the city is so much easier, so much easier than having an infant in the suburbs. Like, pushing your baby to the pediatrician where, like, if he cries, you can pick him up or you put him down. You're out of diapers, you're walking by seven Duane Reades. Having a baby in the suburbs, that car seat, man.
If you need to pick up one thing, in and out, and then she's crying, and there, dropped something, and she spits up in the [00:18:00] car s- like, the whole thing is just... And it felt much more isolating. I had a gorgeous home for, with my second baby, and it, it wasn't, it didn't feel the same, whereas when I, with my first, you, you strap or strap 'em on, walk out the door and you see 17 people, but you don't have to talk to any of them.
That's the best part about New York. You could be in it without being in it. And you just didn't have that. And so funny, I'm, I'm laughing because, yeah, Shannon, it's much different. But I also, it feels a little similar to working in a startup versus working in, in like a corporate environment where, like, the camaraderie just, just kind of built in when you're raising a baby in the city, where like the same way, it's chaotic, but there's, there's a bit of a, like a sweetness to the chaos, and a bit of a, like, you have two options, so you just choose the least bad of the two options versus like, you know, you just don't have, like, 17 grocery stores around you.
You don't have all this vari- like, you have variety in a very different way. But the, the, what is it? Constraints breed creativity. [00:19:00] That's, that's city living, and there's just a little bit of that camaraderie of like, I'm dying a little on the inside. You're dying a little inside. Like, but we're together.
You know what I mean? Like, it's midnight and we're walking the streets with this baby that won't sleep, but we're together. And so there's a little bit of that sense that's just kind of, it's kinda cool
[00:19:17] Mallory Lee: You're making me think about the fact that we live in, like, a golf cart-friendly community.
[00:19:23] Rachel Nazhand: agentic
[00:19:25] Mallory Lee: I mean, we're still, like, fully suburb, you know, driving everywhere, but we can take our golf cart to a lot of places in Westfield and, you know, in the neighborhood and stuff like that. And, you know, you're still, like, in your own contraption as a family driving around in the golf cart, but it does feel like more of a community because, you know, there's, like, no walls, and you go past other people on the golf cart, and it's like, "Hey," you know?
And the places we go have golf cart parking. And so I don't know. It's, it's not the same as, like, [00:20:00] being in a city where you're walking with people, but it, it's, like, maybe a tiny bit closer to, you know, not being boxed into your car all the time.
[00:20:09] Shannon Curran: Totally. When I moved to here, so I live in a pretty northern suburb of Boston. Everyone that listens to this that knows where I live is like, "Shenny, you do not live in Boston." Like, it's, like, far. Um, and it's just far enough for the drive to be, like, abysmal, but I still do it. when we first moved here, we moved here in, like, in July of 2020.
So you were right when you were doing what you were doing, Rachel. so I was also making a big life change from living in the city for 10 years to living here. And I grew up around here, so both our sets of parents are closer. But I remember I didn't meet a single person until I got a dog. And then I walked my dog.
And so I would meet other people walking their dogs, and I would ... Later my dog became less friendly, which made this harder. Um, but I I was like, "Damn it, Marty, this is how we're making friends." And this is, and because also I didn't [00:21:00] have kids yet. I didn't have kids yet. And, which our kids are like social currency in the suburbs.
Like, if you don't have kids, like, how you meeting people? Like, it's very, very challenging. And it was also during COVID, so, like, we weren't going out to ... Like, my husband used to work in restaurants, so we'd al- always had restaurant friends. And I was in a dance company before I moved out here, and, like, I didn't have that anymore.
And I remember it being really hard. And then I joined the gym that I go to, and now I have, like, all of my friends are from there. And they all have young kids. They're all women that are, like, growing up in the area. But, like, it's so hard, right, to find community when there's so many barriers, um, like, where we are.
So it's funny that, like, there's always this idea of, like, you wanna move to the suburbs to give your kids a great life. And it's like, well, your kids can have a great life anywhere. and maybe even more in, in, like, built-in community, right? Like, there's ... I just f- I, it's just funny that I just happened to be in New York at the beginning of this week and had this thought, um, that the, it must be a really cool experience to get to grow up.
And your kids are getting both, which is, like, even cooler. Like, [00:22:00] they are getting both experiences.
[00:22:01] Mallory Lee: Yeah,
[00:22:02] Rachel Nazhand: They're getting... Yeah. And I've, I've moved them abroad, um, more than once. Um, I moved them to Mexico City for a couple months and put them in this little Mexican preschool. I, I call it, um, I call-
[00:22:14] Shannon Curran: Can you be my mom, Rachel? Can you adopt me?
[00:22:17] Rachel Nazhand: I'm adopting. It comes with a, I call it intentional, intentional, like, um, wh- white collar grit. Because they have a very lovely life and, um, I just wanted them to kind of experience these other places and other ways of living and have them be, you know, like see other people and other languages and just...
And it, it's funny because it, it also lends to weird conversations where like, "Was that my Mexico preschool?" I'm like, "Babe, you have a strange little life." But yeah, I think, um, it's, I think it comes with intentionality 'cause I also have a lot of girlfriends that are raising their kids and, you know, suburbs as well, and they have, their kids have gorgeous childhoods.
And I grew up actually in a really small town on, um, several acres. I didn't have neighbors. My [00:23:00] summers were spent in the woods with my two brothers, like barefoot and like dirty and probably bleeding from something that like they may have like jumped out
[00:23:09] Mallory Lee: Amazing.
[00:23:10] Rachel Nazhand: And so I
had a
very different- Literally, yes.
But of course
it's like, yeah, but it was like ice cold no matter what time of year it was. And so you kind of got like,
[00:23:20] Shannon Curran: Ja.
[00:23:20] Rachel Nazhand: yeah, it was ice bath before ice bath was cool. Um, and so my childhood was very different. So when I take my kids back to visit my parents, they get that like total rural experience. And so it's just a little bit...
But it's, I think it comes back to being intentional, where like Mal, I know you guys host a lot and so you create that, that community. And Shannon, it sounds like you've got your people as well. And I think especially as a working mom, having those spaces where you can have each of your identities and your kids can have these identities, and just being able to model what ambition looks like, being able to model what community looks like, being able to model what, what like different kinds of love looks [00:24:00] like.
Like what a gift that we can be so intentional about it. and having spaces like this to talk about it where it feels less isolating. 'Cause not every chapter is, uh, a chapter that we wanna live twice, but it all has kind of a, a purpose. You know? Some of that stuff is, that's a one, one and done.
[00:24:18] Shannon Curran: Yeah, exactly.
[00:24:20] Mallory Lee: That's so true. I remember the day that the boys realized that Uncle Carl and Aunt Laura were not actually their aunt and uncle. And it was, it was a big deal. It was like, "Wait a minute. This is not actually my uncle?" And we're like, "Well, I mean, yes. It's, it's Uncle Carl. Like, you should still always call him Uncle Carl, but we're not actually, like, physically related to Uncle Carl."
And they were kinda devastated for a hot minute. Like, they had no idea it wasn't actually their uncle, and that's how, you know, close we are, and I think you can find that, you know, pretty much anywhere, which is, which is the [00:25:00] goal
[00:25:00] Rachel Nazhand: That's your chosen, boys. I Yeah.
[00:25:04] Mallory Lee: Yeah. Rachel, I'm wondering something else about this process. Like, when you were thinking about moving into your role at your company now, what did it look like when you were kind of telling them about DC and, you know, your, your co-parenting life? Um, was it part of the conversation at all? Or, you know, how'd that work?
[00:25:31] Rachel Nazhand: I joined this company about six months ago from, from today. and prior to that, the company I was with, I was with for, about three years. And in that three-year period was when I was pregnant with my second, had my second, went through the divorce, sold a house, moved back to New York.
Like check, check, check, check, check.
And we were... Yeah, it was, um, we're a whole new person. It was, uh, yeah. It was like The
Princess Diaries
follow-up,
[00:25:56] Shannon Curran: Gotta get a new job.
[00:25:58] Rachel Nazhand: hits the good hair. [00:26:00] going through that was interesting. It was a remote-first company. I, I had a wonderful, especially towards the end, I had a really wonderful boss there who was, who was great, but I didn't really...
And what's interesting is,
So in a lot of circles, um, I would say the most isolating thing about going through divorce as a working person, and probably any divorce, but this is just my experience through it, it's not like when you get engaged and want to get married, right?
There's a lot of life transitions that you're excited to take someone on the end-to-end journey, but going through this type of transition in a work environment, like when do you tell someone? When do you bring them in? How do you reassure them that like thank goodness I'm showing up to work everyday 'cause I need...
It's almost like when you're postpartum for many of us, where like I needed to go back to work because I needed this stable identity to like, I needed something to be, um, recognizable. And so it was similar when I was going through that transition in the workplace, so I didn't tell people for a l- a long time, and until really it was kind of like locked and loaded.
So now, um, when I meet people and tell my story, oftentimes they're like, [00:27:00] "I have this friend Mary that's going through this," and like, "Can you just talk to her?" And it's like this interesting like whisper network of like she's in the thick of it too, and she needs someone that like knows what it looks like.
So then now going into this new company, and I had left the last company because I'd felt they're a pretty large, they're pre-IPO, you know, $17 billion valuation, like a very, very large company, and it was a great experience. I think very highly of them as an employer, but I was also getting the itch to like really contribute.
I'd gotten through like the big, hairy, personal stuff, and I was like, "I really wanna feel the impact of my work in a different way." So I went back down market to a smaller company. And I kind of presented the bare minimum facts going in, which was like, "I have a place in Brooklyn. I can be in the office fairly often."
I have kids. But you know, there's no wedding band on my finger. And to, to this, to the CEO's credit, and he also has kids, which was lovely, and I knew someone at the company already that kinda like had a character reference. [00:28:00] But I c- I kinda didn't touch it, and they didn't ask. And it was a little bit of like, you can just count on me to be able to do my job and like the rest of it...
And even to this day, if one of my coworkers listened to this podcast, they'd probably be like, "That's what she's doing." 'Cause at work sometimes they'll be, they're like, "Where are you?" I'm like, "I'm in Virginia." I don't like to like, I'm not giving them like the c- the nugget to like, you know, follow. You know?
So they either have to be really nosy or just accept the facts. And so it's a little bit like, um, it's not something... And I will say like at networking events too, I introduce myself as a New Yorker because that's the identity that I, like especially in a professional context, is what I am. And then suddenly they're like, "But wait, you just, you just said Virginia."
I'm like, "Well, like my kids are there." And they're like, "But you're here." I'm like, "Yes, I'm also
responsible for my children." They're like, "Do you know where your kids are?" I'm like, "Yes. Yes,
[00:28:51] Shannon Curran: I just left them. I just left them there. They, they're very self-sufficient,
[00:28:53] Rachel Nazhand: I'm like,
They, they know how to work Netflix. They have their own profile. They're, they'll be fine." But [00:29:00] I have found a way to manage the story in a way that makes people feel comfortable. It gives them enough facts that it's very true and authentic. But I don't wanna ever be defined by this, right? Like my kids are a part of me. They're the most important part of me. They're my number one priority that I would drop everything for if I had to.
But my career's also incredibly important to me. And so being able to kind of like tow this line of like authenticity and vulnerability and openness, but also like, "Don't worry about that. It's not gonna like impact how I show up." And so yeah, I think, um, having that as a, a blended identity has been an interesting, interesting journey.
There's not a ton of people that share, this type of like untidy personality, I suppose. But it works because I think it allows, it allows me to be really intentional about how I focus, how I spend my time, where my time is available. when I'm with my kids, I'm logging off at 5:00, picking them [00:30:00] up, and they've got my full attention until they're in bed and then I'll check in on a few things.
[00:30:04] Mallory Lee: But when I'm not with them, that's when I can kind of, you know, expand my hours a little bit, take the happy hour, happy hour, do the networking event, that kinda thing too. Well, I have known you before and I know you now, and I think what stands out to me is that, um, you haven't changed. You know? Like, I think that it's important to, like, stay who you are through all of these, you know, big life things. And, you've just been so, like, confident before and after. And I, I love that because when you are friends with someone who tells you that that's what they're going through, you don't know how to help.
And then you're like, "I hope that they're okay." And then you don't wanna say too much, and then you don't wanna, like, say the wrong thing. And then, you know, so you're just kinda, like, watching from afar and, like, checking in and hoping that [00:31:00] everything's good. And, I don't know. I- I've just been, like, super proud of, of you as I've seen all of this kind of unfold.
And you're just so cool. You're, like, so cool and
[00:31:13] Rachel Nazhand: But can you send me a voice memo with those, like, with
[00:31:18] Mallory Lee: Yeah. on them?
We'll clip it. We'll clip it and send it to
[00:31:22] Shannon Curran: She has good hair. She's really cool. She's vibe g- like, oh, what
[00:31:26] Mallory Lee: Yeah. Yeah. I village is for, people. Get a I get a hype squad. I mean, I see... This is like I'm just gushing at this point, which is fine. Like, I see you on Instagram, and when you're with your kids on Instagram, it's like dance party. I'm like, "Rachel's having dance parties," okay?
And I am, like, yelling at people to go to bed. I just
[00:31:51] Rachel Nazhand: do with it just wasn't hit the stories
[00:31:53] Shannon Curran: in a hard season, Mallory. You're in a hard season, I
[00:31:56] Mallory Lee: I know.
[00:31:57] Rachel Nazhand: significantly outnumbered [00:32:00] too.
[00:32:00] Shannon Curran: The ages do feel hard. Like, my kids are still really sweet. Do they wake me up in the f- all the time? Yes, but they're very sweet the littler they are. There's a little bit of, like, pro and con to each stage, so I think that's probably
[00:32:12] Rachel Nazhand: Mine are just now starting to like fight at three and six. And so Mallory, I imagine you've got a, a different chapter, right? Mine are just kind of coming out of this like the little sister would follow her brother anywhere. And so now I'm kind of getting into the like that, that part of parenting where they're a little less portable.
They, they realize they have agency and opinions, right? Right. Where before it was like, wear these pants, eat this food, go to this place. I mean, of course, it's like faster, faster, faster, get your shoes on. What do you mean you have no pants on? Like that kind of thing. But now I'm starting to get into the like, where did you find that?
Like, what, where , where did this come from? I didn't realize that door needed to be shut. And so it is a way, a different... You don't see the other side of parenting. You're seeing the, the highlight reel, which is all, is all
[00:32:56] Mallory Lee: Yeah.
[00:32:57] Rachel Nazhand: I'm thinking of all the funny things that I say [00:33:00] constantly, and one of them is, "Stop touching each other." Like, they're not even fighting, but they're just always touching each other. And then before you know it, someone's hurt and crying, and I'm like, "Do not touch his body." You know? 'Cause I'm l- I need them to, like, physically separate from each other.
[00:33:21] Mallory Lee: But, um, yeah.
[00:33:23] Shannon Curran: Willa lately... So, uh, Rachel, I have a three-year-old and a one-year-old. So Ra- uh, so Willa lately, the little one, loves to lay on top of her brother, and he hates it. He's
like, Willa, get off of my body. Willa." And I'm like, and she just, she's like rolling around. She's also just, like, really compact. She has, like, super, super short legs.
I'm so sorry to her that she, she was born with my body. It's not, it, it just is what it is. Uh, she's in the 9th percentile for height. I'm like, sorry. And so she's just this, like, little dumpling, [00:34:00] like,
rolling all over his body, and she's like, "Willa." Like, it's so funny. I... Also, he chose her Halloween costume this year, and I'm just thinking, like, this is probably the last time she's gonna allow for that.
You know what I mean? Like, he chose his, and then he was like, "Also, now I have to choose everybody's." And I'm like, "Okay, so Daddy and Mommy don't dress up. That's just, like, a thing that we don't do. So you..." But he was like, "Well, I know what Willa's gonna be." And I was like, "Okay, that's fine. Whatever." She doesn't care, but, like, next year I'm only imagining the fight that will ensue when she does not agree with his choice of Halloween costume. Oh, so he is going to be a blue T-Rex. We already have the costumes. Uh, and she is a baby T-Rex, so she is also a T-Rex. She is just green. So it is, uh... She's also been really enjoying going, "Rawr, rawr." She has this, like, really cute little roar that is just... It's excellent. The whole thing is honestly extremely adorable.
But I'm just waiting [00:35:00] for the next year when she's like, "I'm not gonna be a T-Rex again, Sebastian." Like, I'm just waiting for the day. Or like, "No, I will not be Lightning McQueen." You know what I mean? I'm just waiting.
[00:35:13] Mallory Lee: I love that.
[00:35:14] Shannon Curran: Rachel, do you have your kids for trick-or-treat this year or do they get to trick-or-treat twice?
[00:35:18] Rachel Nazhand: Well, trick-or-treating in Virginia. Trick-or-treating in New York is like, I guess Brooklyn's a little better, but otherwise you like do this like weird like apartment building thing. A lot of the businesses in New York do trick-or-treating where you like go to the like the Sweet Frog and then the laundromat and then like, it's a totally different vibe. But yeah, they'll, they'll be, they'll be in the burbs. They'll do the burb. And but we, I also take them to a different neighborhood, um, where a lot of my friends live, and so we'll like meet up with them and do the whole crawl and yeah. But they're so little that like honestly they're still at an age where like if they get like 10 pieces of candy they're over the moon.
And so it's still a little bit of that sweetness. But yes, um, they also... My son also tried to pick my three-year-old's costume this year, and she...
[00:35:59] Shannon Curran: How'd that go? [00:36:00] No
[00:36:01] Rachel Nazhand: Well, so they still watched, they, he- he's Sonic. No, he's not Sonic. He's, um, one God, Sebastian loves Sonic. Knuckles. Knuckles?
Knuckles. He's Knuckles. Which is great, 'cause that is a very readily available costume to purchase.
Um, so he's Knuckles, and he wanted her to be Amy.
[00:36:16] Shannon Curran: T-
[00:36:17] Rachel Nazhand: And she was, she was excited about being Amy until she realized that there was an option to be Gabby from Gabby's Dollhouse. I'd imagine Gabby's Dollhouse has probably not hit either of your households given age and demographic.
[00:36:28] Shannon Curran: my nieces, my nieces, but not my daughter yet.
[00:36:31] Rachel Nazhand: Obsessed. And so she's been wearing the little cat ears, and there's a little jingle that she like can't get right. So she goes, "A pinch on my right and a pinch on my right. A pinch, a pinch, a pinch." I'm like, "That's not it. That's not it," but like you do you. And so it's very cute. They're very excited.
[00:36:46] Mallory Lee: Oh.
[00:36:47] Shannon Curran: that's cute. Yeah, there's, uh, we also have a Sonic house here. Every morning, "I'm Sonic." And he just like hands straight back in fists behind fa- and running headfirst. Like li- and then [00:37:00] he'll go, "You're Knuckles." And I'm like, "Okay, okay, okay." And he goes, and then he'll go, "Willa is Baby Sonic." Usually that's how I like that there's always just a duplication of just the
Yes. She's never her own thing. She's never her own thing. It's always baby whatever he is. It's like that's the like he... And I'm like, "She's not really even a baby anymore," but that is
[00:37:21] Mallory Lee: But she is. Yes, she is. She's a baby. We even have a Sonic, um, a love for Sonic at our house, and I have all these, like, crazy bedtime routines where the boys are getting tucked in. And I tuck in Cohen first, and I spend, you know, whatever, five-ish minutes in there, and then I'm gonna move on to the next room.
And the, the routine is that he says, "Come back and check on me." And I say, "Yes, I'm gonna come back and check on you." And he says, "Faster than Sonic. You need to be faster than Sonic to come back and check on me." [00:38:00] And I'm like, "Oh, that's pretty fast. I don't know. We'll see." And then normally by the time I go check on him, he's asleep, so it works out fine.
But I need to be faster than Sonic
[00:38:10] Rachel Nazhand: are your boys into Pokemon as well? That's also hit the house for me.
[00:38:14] Mallory Lee: No. Strangely, we never really got into Pokemon, and Cohen went to a Pokemon-themed birthday party. I had to go buy him some stuff 'cause it was like, "Bring your cards." And I was like, " Well, we don't have that." So it was a whole thing.
[00:38:29] Shannon Curran: thing
[00:38:31] Rachel Nazhand: your cards. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I think all these have had like a bit of a resurgence with these like young kids. It's interesting to watch
[00:38:39] Mallory Lee: Aw, man, so fun. I'm sad we are now at the, the save of the week part of our... I know. This flies
[00:38:49] Shannon Curran: It went by.
fast.
[00:38:50] Mallory Lee: I know. All right. Well, Shannon, do you have a save?
[00:38:55] Shannon Curran: I think I would be remiss to not mention my husband this week. September has been a [00:39:00] month of... Well, I think I stopped breastfeeding in July. I had been either pregnant or breastfeeding for, like, two and a half years, and I feel like I've, I had just, like, left a lot of things, to, like, I'll do it after when I can l- leave.
And now I feel like this month has been just, like, full of, like, Shannon things that are not kid-related. And so that means my co-parent, uh, takes on a lot, right? So, like, I have said yes to more travel for work, 'cause I wasn't traveling at all for over a year. Um, and so I've been to New York a few times. I had a few, like, an off-site in Boston that was, like, really long days, so, like, really hard.
And then I've been to, like, three or four concerts in the last few weeks. I... And then I had a big race yesterday that I had been training for for a long time. And so he has just, like, really stepped up to, like, be just, like, very much, like... I would say usually we're 50/50. Right now it's, like, 75/25 it feels like very much.
And so, um, and without [00:40:00] one single complaint, like, just very much, like, there doing the thing, making it work. And I just totally realize that, like, when you have kids, like, it is... It's funny. I, so I, I raced in a Hyrox this weekend, and a lot of, uh, people say, like, all the moms that do it are like, "Every hour you're training is an hour you're not parenting," which is true.
Like, it just makes it so much harder. and so I'm just very thankful. He was a major save this week of feeling like I could, like, go and do these things that have been kind of, like, held up for the last while, because I've been so focused on being a mom. So yeah, he's the major save of the week. He does not listen to the podcast anymore, so I'm gonna shame him, 'cause he's probably f- about four weeks behind.
But we'll see if he listens to this one and he then yells at me for it. Yeah.
[00:40:48] Mallory Lee: Brian said, he texted me and he said, "I see that the title of the episode this week contains the word rage. I can't wait to listen to this."
[00:40:59] Shannon Curran: Different setup [00:41:00] than we have. Oh.
[00:41:01] Rachel Nazhand: Yeah
[00:41:02] Shannon Curran: I'm like, "Hey, Pete, did you listen to last week's episode?" He goes, "I'm a few weeks behind." I'm like, "How many few weeks?" He's like, "Six." I'm like
[00:41:11] Mallory Lee: Come on, Pete. What are you
[00:41:12] Shannon Curran: It's all good. It's all good. He's too busy. He's too busy parenting. Too
[00:41:16] Mallory Lee: He's parenting. Yeah, that's
all
[00:41:17] Shannon Curran: right. I'll let it go.
[00:41:20] Mallory Lee: right.
[00:41:20] Shannon Curran: do you have one?
[00:41:21] Rachel Nazhand: my save of the week is something I use often, which is, I call it reverse night. So, um, when I'm with, when I'm with my kids, they, the little school they go to, um, they're in the same school, which is wonderful, first grade and, uh, pre-K. And so I pick them up usually between 5:00 and 5:30, but generally my workday is like all the way up until then.
And so if I haven't managed to like cram in some sort of dinner prep during the workday, I call it reverse night. So I'll pick them up, I'll bring them home, and they go first into the bathtub. And they do their bathtub first, and then they do their PJs, and then we read a book, and then we do dinner.
Because while they're in the tub is when I'm like making the dinner. And it's just like this [00:42:00] lovely little like I don't feel like I'm... I feel like I'm not like behind because it's intentional, right? And so my save has given myself permission to like, I can still accomplish the same five tasks that I know I want to every single night, but I can do it whatever order I want.
And I'd like, when I, when I realized this, 'cause before I'd be like, I'd be scrambling to make the dinner, and they'd be in front of Netflix, and then I'd have this mom guilt that I have like such limited time with them. And of course, now I'm like, da, da, da. And so when I figured out reverse night, and I'll usually like have something new where like, um, this week I put them in the tub with tongs, like kitchen tongs. And so, which was the... Kitchen utensils is probably my part two save all the time. The best toy. The best toy in the world. And so they
[00:42:42] Shannon Curran: I've lost all of my utensils to the bath or the sandbox. I need to buy all new ones.
[00:42:47] Rachel Nazhand: So they're just like picking up stuff and putting it down for like 30 minutes while I got like a decent dinner on the table. And then they're cleaned, they're fed, and they're in bed relatively on time. And it just, it just makes the whole [00:43:00] evening... Also water makes kids like, right? Like,
[00:43:03] Mallory Lee: Yes.
[00:43:04] Rachel Nazhand: are ever grumpy, just add water.
Like they need to drink water.
get in water, play in water, and it just... Anyways, that's, that's, that's been my save is shifting the order of events to, to get some sanity back in my life
[00:43:17] Shannon Curran: You're good
[00:43:18] Mallory Lee: good. This is very ironic, but my save is a kitchen utensil.
[00:43:25] Rachel Nazhand: Perfect. Is it tongs? Is it, is it tiny tongs? Tiny tongs have so many use cases
[00:43:31] Mallory Lee: No, but that sounds like a really good one to go get is tiny tongs. Um, okay, so backstory. When I was engaged, I think maybe, um, somebody was having a Pampered Chef party, and they were like, "Oh, you're getting married. You need this Mix & Chop." And I'm like, "What's a Mix & Chop?" And they gave it to me, they gifted it to me or whatever.
And it's this like... Do you guys have one? Have you used it?
[00:43:58] Shannon Curran: No, but I know about the, the lore of the Mix [00:44:00] and Chop. I don't own one, but I, I, yeah. Explain to the, uh, to the listeners.
[00:44:05] Mallory Lee: So for anyone who's not into the Mix 'N Chop already, you like... It's like a sharpish thing, but it has little blades and there's like four little blades and you stomp it down on the meat and then you turn it. So you're like chopping but you're mixing at the same time. And so it's when you wanna cook like a ground beef or like a ground chicken, you break it up with the Mix 'N Chop and it's very, very effective and it's very, very fast.
And so for years and years and years it's like number one kitchen tool. Well, then we went on this adventure of like getting rid of the black plastic stuff in our house and the Mix 'N Chop had to go away. And it was like really sad. So I would say for like a couple of years we haven't had a Mix 'N Chop.
Well, then I discovered through Brian's sister, she had a wooden one. [00:45:00] And I was like, "Where did you get that?" And so she sent me the link and like I ordered one. And now I have a teak Mix 'N Chop. It is the best and I... Everything feels right again now that I have my Mix 'N Chop.
[00:45:14] Rachel Nazhand: She's mixing and chopping everything she can find now. Nothing is safe
[00:45:19] Shannon Curran: Everything is pulverized. Nothing Ja. Like, everything is
[00:45:22] Mallory Lee: Ja. dinners forever
[00:45:26] Shannon Curran: Like, "Mom, can we chew again?" Like, there's no
[00:45:30] Rachel Nazhand: Chopping. We're mixing and chopping.
[00:45:34] Mallory Lee: And Cohen wants to be a chef, and I can't wait to teach him mix and chop.
[00:45:38] Shannon Curran: Well, if that's the most critical chef tool, now you
[00:45:41] Mallory Lee: It really is. Yeah. So that's, that's, that. Mix and chop. so good. So good. Rachel, it's been so nice to meet you. Mallory, great work on, on, on the guest this
[00:45:55] Rachel Nazhand: Mallory knows nothing but great people. Mallory's a super Truly. She [00:46:00] is. She Oh, real, real tidbit. So Mal mentioned that she was in New York with two weeks ago now. And so a group of us internet friends all got together and hung out. And so there's a couple pictures. I got s- I should have actually sent these to you.
I got so many messages on Instagram of like, "You met Mallory? I've always wanted to meet Mallory," combined with, "Mallory's so short." So it was a combination. But every time I hang... There's, I have a couple of internet friends I've met in real life. Every time I hang out with a handful of them, Mal, you're one of them, 'cause this is the second time we've hung out, right? We met in New Orleans.
[00:46:34] Mallory Lee: ja.
[00:46:35] Rachel Nazhand: And they're like, "You've met Mallory?" Because, you know, you don't, you don't do the conference circuit as much as some of the other, other folks do.
And so it's like you get to meet this celebrity in the wild. I'm like, "Yeah, of course. I'm in more
than one group chat with her. I've made it, baby."
[00:46:50] Mallory Lee: strange.
[00:46:52] Rachel Nazhand: It's a funny thing. It's a funny thing to be outside of real life.
[00:46:58] Mallory Lee: That's
[00:46:58] Rachel Nazhand: So
[00:46:58] Shannon Curran: internet friends. We are [00:47:00] also internet friends, so I get it.
I know we
were inter- We've only
[00:47:02] Mallory Lee: we are. I know. Speaking of that, um, Rachel, bless her heart, she got these custom necklaces made for me and Anne and Molly, and I'm wearing it. It's like a little heart, and it's a little locket. And it's like two pieces, and across the heart it says, "Internet BFFs."
[00:47:26] Rachel Nazhand: Like the ones from Claire's. Do you remember those?
[00:47:28] Shannon Curran: Oh my God, of course I do. Wow, that's so sweet. I was very jealous of this trip. I was like, Mallory was like, "Do you wanna come to New York this week?" I was like, "I kinda feel like I'm not quite in the group chat. I'm close, I'm adjacent,
[00:47:40] Rachel Nazhand: Oh, we'll
[00:47:41] Shannon Curran: but I don't have the same job. I know, I don't have the same job. I'm a little bit different."
So I was like, I know." I was like, "Next time I will be there." Um, of course, I go to New York when no one's there, so I was like, great, lovely. But I was there for literally, like, 20, 27 hours and I was in a something the whole time. Uh, I was like, this is like, [00:48:00] I need to be better about spending more time places when I go, but you know, gotta get back for the bedtime, gotta get
[00:48:06] Rachel Nazhand: Yes. Yes,
always.
[00:48:09] Shannon Curran: Totally.
[00:48:10] Mallory Lee: All right. Well, love you
[00:48:12] Shannon Curran: All right.
[00:48:13] Mallory Lee: See you
soon.
[00:48:13] Rachel Nazhand: to see
you.
[00:48:15] Mallory Lee: Bye.
[00:48:16] Shannon Curran: Thanks for listening to Full Stack Moms,
[00:48:18] Mallory Lee: We'll be back with more episodes that help you see you're not crazy and you're not alone. If we might be your people, please make sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:48:29] Shannon Curran: I wanted to introduce Rachel, to the Full Stack Moms world by noting that this is Rachel with the good hair. Rachel has really good hair, so you're gonna forever be Rachel with the good hair, okay? One reason for this is because I'm never confident in how I pronounce your last name. The other reason for this, the other reason is because I, I got to hang out with Rachel a couple weeks ago in New York, [00:49:00] and Molly was there, and Anne was there, and then we get back at the end of the night, we're kinda looking at pictures, and all of us are like, "God, Rachel's hair. How is her hair so great?"
[00:49:10] Mallory Lee: It was like the thing we talked about was how good Rachel's hair is.
[00:49:16] Rachel Nazhand: my legacy, but I'm, I'm into it. That's amazing