Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes are normally around 90 minutes long and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.
The podcast features eight members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Chef Ricky, Grinder and Bam Bam.
This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.
Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
Welcome to the Lounge Lizards podcast presented by Fabrica Five. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love of premium cigars as well as whiskey travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo. Tonight, I'm joined by Rooster, Senator, chef Ricky, and Bam Bam.
Gizmo:And our plan is to smoke a cigar, drink some rum, talk about life, and, of course, have some laughs. So take this as your two hundred and fortieth official invitation to join us and become a card carrying lounge lizard when we meet us here once a week. We're gonna smoke a Cupid cigar tonight, share our thoughts on it, and give you our formal lizard rating. We ponder the future of this market with Habanos. We discuss the recently proposed New York State generational tobacco ban, and a listener asks Bam for an etiquette rules exception, all among a variety of other things for the next two hours.
Gizmo:So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar, enjoy as we pair Havana Club, Edicien Profesional, B with the Vegas Robaina Unicos. A Cuban pyramid on the pod tonight, boys, and we are back to Vegas Robaina .
Bam Bam:Correct.
Gizmo:It's the Unicos, and this is a 52 ring gauge cigar by six and one eighths inches long. And, boys, this is the first time we're actually doing a revisit of a cigar, and we're doing an older box code than the first time we reviewed it on episode 38. So two hundred and two weeks ago, we reviewed this cigar for the first time. That box was a hate to tell
Rooster:you these. These are fake.
Gizmo:They look like they are, don't they? No. The wrapper slides right off. Oh, I know. Yeah.
Rooster:Not They're the wrapper. The band.
Gizmo:There's not a lot of glue on there. Yeah. What's going on? I never seen that. Well, it's a good thing for us.
Gizmo:But I will say, when I look at these.
Bam Bam:How many days ago? Two hundred and two weeks. Two weeks? Yeah. You know, in rooster time, that's about five days.
Chef Ricky:Welcome back, rooster.
Gizmo:He said
Rooster:two hundred and two weeks, not light of yours. Uh-huh.
Gizmo:I'll tell you, these are not great looking cigars. No. Senator sat down. He's like, what are we doing? They look horrible.
Senator:Yeah. They're mean, this is as rustic and poorly rolled a cigar as I've ever seen out of Cuba.
Rooster:It literally looks patchy.
Gizmo:Like, you can see different points throughout the cigar where it's kind of like Yeah.
Bam Bam:Irregular Dark spots.
Gizmo:Just just it's almost like has chunks.
Bam Bam:It's uneven.
Chef Ricky:Yeah. Yeah. A little smooth. Trapezoid ish.
Gizmo:Which makes me nervous about the construction, you know, like or or how many of us are gonna have draw issues tonight?
Bam Bam:You But the tip is quite sharp.
Gizmo:Yeah. Alright, boys. Let's cut this thing. See what we're getting on the cold draw and the wrapper. Cross our fingers here.
Bam Bam:I think I've got concrete in my cigar.
Gizmo:Really? Thank
Bam Bam:goodness for the perfect draw.
Gizmo:Maybe try another cut.
Senator:The tip is rock hard. Same with mine. The foot looks wide open, but the head of the cigar is packed.
Bam Bam:Are you getting a draw at all?
Senator:I am, but it's a bit more resistant than I would like. I'm hoping it'll open up once it's Wow.
Bam Bam:That may take a bit more off.
Gizmo:You guys getting anything on the cold rather than cement and concrete? I'm getting cedar.
Bam Bam:A very I'm getting a faint berry.
Gizmo:Mhmm.
Bam Bam:No quintessential dry fruit yet.
Chef Ricky:Cedar, berry, and a little Figgy. Shortbread, little Fig Newton.
Gizmo:Get a little salt, but
Chef Ricky:If there was actually air passing through this, the flavor would be But it's so cold. There is no passage of air through here at all. There's no airflow.
Bam Bam:The aroma in the wrapper is nice.
Chef Ricky:Shit. Is yours super hard?
Senator:Not not as bad as yours. I mean, there's air coming through mine.
Gizmo:Do want another one?
Chef Ricky:No. I I just I
Bam Bam:have one here.
Gizmo:Here, Rooster, send this back over. It's not worth suffering here.
Chef Ricky:Shit.
Bam Bam:Alright. Can we light this hammer?
Gizmo:Alright, boys. Let's light this thing. Ricky, you perfect draw yours. The Vegas Robaina Unicos.
Bam Bam:Yeah. We're not waiting for chef.
Chef Ricky:Not anymore.
Gizmo:It's a 52 ring gauge cigar by six and one eighths inches long. This comes in dress boxes of 25 cigars. It was originally released in 1997 at the launch of the Vegas Robaina Marca, and it is one of two cigars currently still in production under the Vegas Robaina name.
Bam Bam:I love how funky the aroma is right now. It's a there's a touch of barnyard on this. It's really quite good and a little sweet.
Gizmo:Wow. That is nice. It's very nice. So for listeners out there, the last time we spoke these on episode 38, we did a September 21 box, I think. This one is actually older than that.
Gizmo:This is g e m July 2020. So this is a COVID box made at the h upman factory, where we got so many of those beautiful h upman number twos out of there using that g e m code 181920Ish. So we'll see how this does tonight.
Bam Bam:You got these for roughly $14 each?
Gizmo:Yeah. These were very inexpensive at the time.
Bam Bam:And they're at least double that now.
Gizmo:Yeah. They're right around so I think you can find them between '25 and 30. And I actually have something I wanna talk about from our earlier episode of doing these that long ago. Interesting conversation around the price of the cigar and our our habits and our choices and every yeah. It's really amazing how in just the amount of time that we've been smoking cigars together on this podcast, how different our cigar habits have become.
Bam Bam:Oh, yeah. What are you
Gizmo:guys getting on the light?
Bam Bam:I'd like to see if you're getting the same aroma I'm getting. It's really quite unique. Good deal of barnyard with the hint of some sort of fruit sweetness, very faint. That funky barnyard's unusual in aroma.
Gizmo:There is a little funk there. Right? I love it. I don't know if I'm getting barnyard though. Whatever.
Gizmo:It's Like a monkey.
Rooster:Yeah. It's it's there's
Gizmo:a little mustiness there.
Bam Bam:Yeah. You'll get that in a barn. No. I do think
Senator:there is a little barnyard, though.
Gizmo:It's not, like, prominent, but Are you getting it on the drawer or just the
Senator:aroma? The drawer. The drawer.
Bam Bam:I am getting it on
Rooster:On the aroma too, though.
Bam Bam:The for me, it's more pronounced on the aroma. The drawer, I'm getting it slightly, but the retrohale is where I'm really experiencing that.
Gizmo:It's an interesting experiment we're doing tonight. I mean, this is a cigar that I I would say as far as the battle of the Pyramidids we did all those years ago compared to some of the other cigars we love when at their best, the Monte Cristo number two, the H. Upman number two, etcetera, probably edge this out when this is even at its best. So tonight, doing you alright there, chef?
Senator:Chef's gonna take four hours to light his cigar.
Chef Ricky:It's hard lighting concrete, man.
Bam Bam:You actually got a serious look
Senator:on your face. The flame's so
Rooster:far I watching him light the cigar. It was like a foot away.
Chef Ricky:Can I wanna scorch it? Can I please give you a torch?
Bam Bam:Allow me to give you torch.
Rooster:Oh, you guys are so foolish.
Bam Bam:Torch is actually not appropriate for a Cuban cigar, I will say. Yeah, no, you need this one. Here, please take my single flame, please. Will you do it right, chef? Oh, you got the wrapper.
Bam Bam:You fucked up.
Gizmo:No, he's good. He's fine.
Bam Bam:All right. Nice and uneven.
Rooster:How's the draw? Did it open up?
Chef Ricky:It did a bit.
Bam Bam:All good.
Chef Ricky:It's interesting though. In using the perfect drawer, usually when I've used those in the past, I pull out some chunks of leaves, small. This was like a carpenter bee. See them kind of digging into the wood on your deck and you just see sawdust almost. That was what was happening.
Chef Ricky:But the flavor is phenomenal on that first draw, I got a good amount of resistance, but it's nice.
Bam Bam:I hate to say it's also unusually earthy for a Cuban, for me. Touch of earthiness this early, which I think
Senator:has always been the case with the Unicos.
Bam Bam:I don't remember it at all.
Gizmo:I think it's definitely a standout excuse me. I think it stands apart Yes. From the other pyramids, and even from the Famosos. Certainly, we love that Classico that was canceled many years ago. I'll be honest, going back to this tonight, this is not a cigar I get excited about.
Gizmo:Yeah. You know, this is not a cigar I look at the box and I say, Oh, I can't wait to have one of those again. You know, I keep on bringing this in tonight. It's like, you know, looking at cigars that are somewhat accessible, that are somewhat reasonable, it's a good one to go back to.
Bam Bam:You mentioned the Famoso. I happen to think that is, if you're looking for a graham cracker y profile with a touch of salt, that is the fimoso top to bottom. It's really quite delicious.
Senator:That is a great short spell. Yeah. It's so good. Think Pagoda had gotten a box or two of those. I have one, yeah.
Senator:They're very good.
Bam Bam:So good. He blew through them in a month.
Gizmo:Yeah. So it's interesting with what's going on in Cuba right now. I I actually was talking with Rooster and Lizard O today about this. Some cigars that, you know, I wonder, given the circumstance of Cuba and and the prioritization of, you know, tobacco being rolled into cigars that are limited and high price and Cohiba and all these other things. I wonder, coming out of this mess that we're in right now, geopolitical mess, but also from a business aspect, I wonder how many new boxes of Vegas Robaina Unicos we're gonna see.
Gizmo:Famosos, Schwa Supreme, Saint Louis Rey Reggios. Are they going to allocate tobacco to these cigars that are not really sought after except for in small circles?
Bam Bam:There are also much smaller lines in that markup. Exactly.
Gizmo:And I don't think the Robaina family has necessarily a great relationship with Havana's, my understanding. So I wouldn't be surprised if this
Bam Bam:Gets phased out?
Gizmo:Yeah, it goes the way of the dodo, unfortunately. Wow. This six and a half year old cigar is off to a nice start though for me.
Bam Bam:It is very good.
Gizmo:In your memory of smoking these cigars, where does this rank right now for you on the light versus other Unicos that you've had? If you can remember. Because I haven't had that many.
Senator:I mean, for me, kind of on par in the sense that I remember this being, like, earthy and cocoa were, like, the kind of predominant notes. I'm mildly pleased with this cigar. I I think the thing I'm not really thrilled about right now is I either wish it were sweeter or like saltier. And because it's like there's not enough of either, my palate is not as stimulated as I would like from a cigar at this stage, so the earthiness definitely Dominates. Dominates.
Senator:Yeah.
Bam Bam:Which I love in the fact that it's so unusual for a Cuban cigar, and I'm happy to be holding a Cuban in my hand. I will say that.
Rooster:Yeah. I guess I kind of remember the box that I have. The dominating note on that was coffee. Coffee and like you said, cocoa, chocolate and coffee. Coffee bean, like when you smell coffee beans, that note.
Bam Bam:It's delightful. No earthiness at all.
Rooster:No, on this there is.
Bam Bam:No, on your other box.
Rooster:On the other one, yeah, there is earthiness, but it's not the dominating.
Gizmo:Sure,
Senator:I agree. That's been my past Unicos. It's been more like cocoa than earth, and this is more earth than cocoa.
Rooster:There is mustiness, but it's kind of more in the background. It's not on the forefront like it is on this right now. I mean, it might change.
Gizmo:It doesn't to me right now. It's smoking well. It doesn't taste like a refined aged Cuban cigar to me right now. It's like, okay. But at the six and a half year mark, what these would command on Bond Roberts or somewhere else, it's not lining up for me with my expectation coming in tonight.
Bam Bam:I agree with half of what you said. Which half? Well, I think it's smoking like an aged cigar, but it's not very refined. For me, it it does have that older profile, that mustiness, but it's not refined. I think hopefully it gets a bit creamier, smoother, sophisticated as we get through it.
Bam Bam:I don't know.
Chef Ricky:I feel like creaminess is trying
Senator:to peek through mine here.
Chef Ricky:You think it's coming? Feel it's coming. Because you
Bam Bam:dug into it, man.
Chef Ricky:Yeah. Yeah. Maybe, maybe. But you're right. I am getting age on this.
Chef Ricky:I'm getting a significant amount of it.
Senator:I was getting by
Gizmo:the way.
Chef Ricky:It almost feels like a little bon Robert ish to me, to be honest. Maybe it's because I just had one last night.
Bam Bam:It's very high praise.
Chef Ricky:But it's smoking more like that, especially when I get the peaks of cream, the little sneak throughs of cream coming.
Senator:So I'm not getting any cream That's where I'm more in line with Giz. Doesn't scream six years of age. So I'm a little surprised. I hope that that changes as we smoke more of it.
Bam Bam:Do you think it's sophisticated?
Senator:I don't. If you told me that this cigar was had one or two years on it, then I would
Gizmo:have do it. That's my point,
Bam Bam:Seth. Really?
Gizmo:Yeah. To me, when we've had, let's say, H. Upman number twos with three years on them, they smoke more refined, and they smoke more sophisticated, and they taste longer, you know, with with more age than this six and a half year old Unicos does.
Bam Bam:Yeah. I can see that. But also depends on the cigar and the marker.
Gizmo:What's interesting though is that it's it's one of those things where I you know, obviously, we're critical because of the price of it and the amount of time that it sat. It's taken up real estate in the humidor. I mean, when these were purchased, they were like $14
Bam Bam:And at the time, that was great and they were worth it. Yeah. It's almost $30 for this thing.
Rooster:Yeah. But as far as the pyramid goes, Monty number two is better than this at this point. Correct.
Senator:I agree.
Rooster:Up mid number two, much better than this at half the age.
Bam Bam:Correct again. And I
Senator:put a bellicosos venos over this.
Rooster:Yeah, any day.
Bam Bam:Oh, hell yeah.
Gizmo:I would put a Partagas p two.
Bam Bam:P two,
Gizmo:that two. Great p two.
Bam Bam:Of course.
Gizmo:I think the only one that's kind of in question, though, if you remember, we smoked the diplomaticos number two. We did an early one long ago. Wasn't great.
Bam Bam:Wasn't good.
Gizmo:We did a fresh one when we started revisiting, and it was amazing. Yeah. So it's almost like it goes back to that theory of like the newer tobacco
Bam Bam:Recent runs.
Gizmo:More recent runs of older production cigars are performing very well. But even so, I mean, we're sitting in the room. There's five of us, and two or three had fairly annoying construction issues on the light. Yeah. You're digging in it.
Gizmo:You're concerned about draw. I mean
Bam Bam:I had a bad draw, but it's actually smoking okay. There is one major problem. I'm not surrounded by a cloud of smoke. The smoke is so faint and light.
Gizmo:It's thin. It will vary.
Senator:I think
Chef Ricky:it has everything to do with their airflow.
Rooster:Yeah. But look at Gizmo's cigar.
Chef Ricky:Yeah. Gizmo's flying.
Rooster:It's a chimney.
Gizmo:Yeah. Alright, boys. Let's go into some news, some exciting stuff to talk about. I'm actually surprised that I'm telling you this given everything that's going on in Cuba, but the brand new poor Lara Naga in Temporalis, which is an Edicien Regionale for Switzerland, has gone on sale. It's a Panatella, So it's 38 by six, also known as the Ligito number two.
Gizmo:That's the factory name for it. Same size as the Monte Cristo Especialis number two and the Cohiba Especialis. Of course, there's a bunch of other cigars. The pricing on these, $38 a cigar.
Bam Bam:For a Pintella. Yeah.
Gizmo:Coming with two bands on it, poor Larn Yaga. So I mean What are we doing? That's where it's like It's just dumb. It's crazy. What's that cigar gonna give you?
Gizmo:An hour fifteen? Maybe. An hour and a half if you're rooster? Like,
Rooster:Is that a typical ring gauge for a Panatella? Yeah. 38
Gizmo:by 38. But the Ligito number two, that is the that specific cigar, the Ligito number two, which has been in production since I think Cohiba was founded. That that vitola is very popular with those other those other releases. But, you know, of course, there's short panatellas, small panatellas, long panatellas. There's other variations of it.
Gizmo:But, yeah, 38 by six. So these went on sale in Switzerland. The production is limited to 6,000 boxes of 25 cigars, a 150,000 cigars there. So apparently, I love reading this, as you know, the press release from InterDebak and Habanos calls the profile aromatic, subtle, and balanced. First third is described as having, quote, notes of cedar and roasted nuts on a creamy base before the development enriches itself with soft leather, coffee, and a touch of cocoa.
Gizmo:It's like they're listening to us tonight. What we're looking for in this cigar. It's billed as a medium strength profile that one that is, quote, faithful to the identity of a brand that has always favored finesse over raw power. So I'm surprised to see new releases coming out of Cuba, especially at 150,000 cigars at a clip from poor Lara Naga. It's amazing that they're putting tobacco into that.
Bam Bam:On the cusp of a potential revolution.
Gizmo:Yeah. Insanity going on there.
Bam Bam:Or an overthrow of a government. It's crazy.
Gizmo:It's crazy that there's that there's cigars coming out. So, Rooster, I know you love the Pour Lara Yaga Petite Corona, the PLPC. Have you been reaching for those recently?
Rooster:I have occasionally. Yeah. I think Bam and I probably smoked that
Bam Bam:I had one a couple weeks ago. Sent you guys a photo. I love that cigar.
Rooster:Yeah. I do too.
Gizmo:Yeah. What age is the ones that you guys are smoking?
Bam Bam:I think I have a Twenty nineteen.
Rooster:18 or 19.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Same.
Rooster:LRG. I don't remember.
Bam Bam:I don't remember the code.
Gizmo:And they smoke well? Delicious.
Rooster:LGR. I'm sorry. LGR. Very good. Yeah.
Rooster:The 50 cabs.
Senator:So I'll just say I've never loved that cigar. I'm with you. It's too woody for me. Mhmm. But when I was in Panama late last year, I had gotten a pretty young one, think, like, maybe 20, 25.
Senator:It was very good. The woody note that for me is overpowering was way in the background, and it was creamy and smooth. Honey sweetness. Yeah. It was really good, the one that I had.
Bam Bam:I don't know if I don't get much woodiness. I chase this graham cracker note in almost every Cuban or nougat or something like that. You have ash in your nose.
Gizmo:It's ash Wednesday over here.
Chef Ricky:Correct.
Gizmo:Because I'm sniffing it. I'm trying to get more out
Bam Bam:of it. Nibage. What was I saying?
Gizmo:Yeah. Where's my nibage? Ash nibage.
Bam Bam:Graham cracker, and that's pretty sweet experience for me. Sweet coffee Yeah. And graham cracker for that guy.
Rooster:I got, like, a honey sweetness with some cedar and
Bam Bam:Yeah. Cream. We should bring in. I'll bring in an old box. If you guys have young ones, I would love to compare them.
Gizmo:I don't have a single PLPP. And you don't like
Bam Bam:it or? Yeah.
Gizmo:I have zero. You know what's funny though is is again, it goes back to the conversation that we've had a thousand times that we've already started tonight that you know, Senator's having a twenty twenty five, 2024 run of that cigar. He thinks it's phenomenal. You guys are smoking something from 2018, 2019 that sounds like a completely different cigar.
Bam Bam:It likely is.
Gizmo:And that's the issue here with the consistency
Bam Bam:It's a problem.
Gizmo:Of Habanos. And also, you know, I mean, just the different runs and how sometimes things change. So how much did you pay for that cigar? Do you remember when you were in Panama?
Senator:I want to say probably
Rooster:15.
Senator:Yeah, like $15.16 bucks.
Rooster:That's a small cigar.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Definitely a good post lunch smoke.
Senator:Yeah.
Gizmo:So shout out to Halfwheel for the info on that. They're always very helpful for us sharing the information about new releases and and other things coming out about cigars. Let's go to another one now, boys. I found this one to be very troubling. I think we talked about this on the chat, but wanted to share this here.
Gizmo:The New York State Legislature has introduced a generational tobacco ban bill. The New York State New York State has officially introduced a proposal for a generational tobacco ban according to Cigar Aficionano. The proposed legislation seeks to make it illegal for any person born after 12/31/2007 to purchase tobacco products, including premium handmade cigars in perpetuity. The bill has already been read on the assembly floor and referred to the committee on health, was introduced by assemblywoman Pollan of District 88 in New York, who represents areas in Westchester County. Should it pass in both the New York State Assembly Chambers and the Senate, the law would take the law would take effect 01/01/2028.
Gizmo:So if this becomes law according to them here, anyone in New York State currently younger than 21 will never be legally permitted to purchase cigars or any tobacco product even once they turn 21 years old. Those currently of age will keep their legal right to purchase tobacco products, but future generations will never gain the right. Now, of course, this is coming off of the success of UK. UK and and other, you know, generational tobacco bans around the world passing through. So we're seeing this kind of imitation thing happen, which senator has said, you know, it always starts over there and then comes here, which you've said a thousand Yeah.
Gizmo:Times
Chef Ricky:With everything. So you say success, what are some examples of what that looks like?
Gizmo:Well, UK just passed like, success meaning it went through Mhmm. And passed, and it's law. But in UK,
Chef Ricky:it's law now.
Gizmo:Understood. So not that
Chef Ricky:there's any examples of good that it's done because of its passing.
Gizmo:Correct, yeah. Mean, it's certainly too early to tell on that. I mean, I think it's gonna be good as far as maybe kids not ever having access to cigarettes or vape or whatever it may It'll
Chef Ricky:be good for marijuana sales.
Gizmo:Correct. And maybe alcohol too.
Bam Bam:Imagine you're a 48 year old man, successful, a captain of industry, dare I say.
Rooster:Like yourself.
Gizmo:Are you talking about yourself? No.
Chef Ricky:You can't
Rooster:Captain my captain.
Bam Bam:And you can't go and buy a fucking cigar.
Rooster:Well, you can come to New Jersey
Senator:and buy it. For now.
Chef Ricky:For now.
Bam Bam:So I'm flying from The UK to Jersey to have a cigar.
Gizmo:Think about Don't go to New York. New York.
Bam Bam:Yeah, you're fucked in New York.
Senator:They come here for medicine, so cigars are not that hard.
Bam Bam:Think about that.
Gizmo:It's crazy thought that, again, that these bodies, you know, they're lobbying or whatever you wanna call it. These bodies Not bodies, they're idiots. No, no, no. I'm saying the people who are lobbying on our behalf.
Rooster:Right.
Gizmo:It's amazing that they can't get the exemption put in there. Why is that? Senator, what causes that to not become part of this conversation?
Rooster:Why can't the separate premium cigars
Gizmo:Is it ineffective? Do they not care?
Rooster:The cocktail is fighting.
Bam Bam:Lack of brain cells.
Senator:No. They don't understand the difference. They don't care. I mean, that was the whole crux of the case with Judge Mitte and the FDA. Right?
Senator:They just don't distinguish. Tobacco to them is tobacco. It's one size fits all. Doesn't matter if it's flavored, if it's for cigarettes, it's short filler, long filler. These are people who don't smoke cigars.
Senator:They have no idea. View it as one and the same.
Gizmo:So let me ask you a question. Obviously, this has already been read on the assembly floor. I don't know how serious that is. Now it's in committee. We've seen various municipalities in the Northeast Of The United States passing various councils, towns passing generational tobacco bans.
Gizmo:Do you see this being a possibility of having success in New York? Is this the start of various iterations over the next few years trying to do it? Could it pass now? What do you think is the possibility here?
Senator:Yeah. I think it's entirely possible that it can pass. I mean, York, it's a very progressive state. Oh, yeah. As I said, there's such a limited understanding of this product for any legislator who has never smoked a cigar.
Senator:I mean, most people who have never smoked a cigar don't even know that you don't inhale cigars. Yeah. I mean, these people have no idea, so they think like all tobacco is as harmful as a cigarette, and that's why they take a blanket approach to it. So do I think that it's possible? Absolutely.
Senator:I mean, the fact that local municipalities have been able to do it, there's no reason a state like New York wouldn't try and and actually get something like that through. But while it's in committee, this is exactly where, any kind of lobbying groups that are gonna weigh in on this need to try and get premium cigars carved out of that.
Bam Bam:Let's say this goes global. How many years do you give the survival of the cigar industry? How many years? Twenty?
Gizmo:Yeah, it's not long. Thirty, and it's over. Because even if it's generational, right?
Bam Bam:Forty, '50 But
Gizmo:say in The UK, generational started, what, 2009, I think? If you're born 01/01/2009 and forward, I think it's something like that. So what you have to figure is that ten to fifteen to twenty years into that, having no new entrance into the, walking into the store able to purchase, your client base is gonna start to fall off Of course. Via death or whatever other reasons
Bam Bam:Over the years.
Gizmo:Now your business is just continually shrinking year after year. How do you keep a shop open?
Bam Bam:Can't. How do you keep the manufacturing plant open?
Senator:Yeah. We're gonna have to go to China for cigars. Yeah. There's no way China bans that. There'll never be a generational ban there.
Senator:Russia,
Gizmo:Korea. Oh, perfect. We're we're off to a great start here. We're going to China, Russia, and North Korea.
Bam Bam:Iran. The Middle East, I can probably my my grandchild can probably get a cigar in The Middle East, so that'll never get banned.
Gizmo:What about the implication of tax revenue? New York is certainly one of the biggest states there. I mean, I gotta imagine that New York sells a lot of cigars.
Rooster:Well, tobacco itself. I mean
Gizmo:And tobacco as well. Yeah.
Senator:Yeah. I mean, New York just years ago dramatically increased their tobacco tax. It's way higher than New Jersey.
Bam Bam:That's
Senator:right. This happened like right during COVID.
Gizmo:That's right.
Rooster:I think it's around ninety to one hundred percent.
Senator:Yeah, it's crazy. But that's again like they did that not because they thought they were going to achieve some windfall of revenue from it. They thought cigarettes have gone the same way, tax the hell out of it and people are gonna stop buying it. It's like, well, surprise, no, people are just going to pay. They're still going to buy it.
Senator:And so now their next move is to go as extreme as just generationally banning access to the entire product.
Gizmo:Yeah. I saw in Australia, they've made it very difficult to buy cigarettes and tobacco in Australia. I saw a stat the other day that 80% of, or 90% of tobacco sold in Australia last year was contraband. It was on the black market. Yep.
Gizmo:'80 to 90
Bam Bam:Wasn't that like in the twenties when they were doing cigar runs from Canada to Jersey?
Gizmo:Pretty much. I mean, it's like, it's the same thing as prohibition when, you know, they banned drinking
Bam Bam:here It in The United
Chef Ricky:never stopped that.
Bam Bam:You're gonna reenrich the mafia. You're gonna reenrich the mafia.
Rooster:It's crazy.
Bam Bam:That's what you're doing.
Gizmo:So apparently in the justification section of the bill, the assemblywoman referenced examples set by Brookline, Massachusetts and The United Kingdom as justification for presenting this bill. So, you know, UK just passed this, I guess, a month or two ago. Boston, you know, Brookline, Massachusetts outside of Boston did it a little while ago, but it seems like this is gonna start to pick up. We're gonna start to see this certainly on the coast here in The US, and I'm sure it's gonna start working its way in. Yeah.
Senator:And I think if this does start to pass, this is gonna be another serious legal challenge because, again, you would need to demonstrate some severe harm that this product causes to prevent people from being able to make their own choice and consume it. I mean, if alcohol's allowed, if marijuana's allowed That's what's crazy, if countless other products are allowed, prove that cigars are more harmful to people's health than the litany of products that are out there, that there's actual research that could make a legitimate claim or argument is harmful to health. I mean, it's crazy. So I would This they is only gonna go, by the way, to the courts at some point
Bam Bam:How would go about proving that scientifically?
Senator:Well, that's the point. There is no scientific evidence that cigars are meaningfully harmful to health.
Gizmo:The FDA has done studies on it. Right.
Bam Bam:They have.
Gizmo:Yeah, and they said that one to two cigars a day, there's no meaningful impact on length of life. So it's amazing that the government can go to discover that in a study, and then still double down, which is what Judge Mehta adopted.
Bam Bam:Can these acts that have been enacted and adopted, can they be appealed?
Senator:Yeah, mean You'd have to sue,
Gizmo:wouldn't you?
Senator:Well, there's multiple ways. Mean, first the law can be repealed. So you have, you know, a new administration, you have a new makeup of a state legislature that let's say leans a bit more conservative, they can repeal that outright. Mhmm.
Gizmo:Which is what happened in New Zealand.
Bam Bam:Is that right?
Gizmo:So New Zealand did pass one
Bam Bam:And they repealed it.
Gizmo:A new kind of government came in and repealed it.
Senator:Okay. That would be I do. Probably the easiest way. And then the other would be to there'd be a lawsuit to say that the law has violated the law, that people actually have a right to choose that product, and that you can't wholesale restrict access based on the year of someone's existence. You can reasonably regulate.
Senator:It's fair to say that no child should be consuming products like that. No one in the industry is opposed to that.
Gizmo:I mean, shit, raise the age to 25.
Senator:Right. But to say that grown adults can't choose a product that is proven far less harmful than countless other products that are allowed to be sold on the market, that's absurd.
Bam Bam:I hope another legal battle is coming.
Gizmo:I would imagine there has to be, but you know, if this starts to get legs and the domino effect starts around the country of these things passing, it's gonna be challenging.
Bam Bam:You're gonna get guys like Rocky and George and Ernesto. They're gonna wanna battle this. Course. Their businesses will be directly affected. In the next forty years, they're gonna be phased out.
Gizmo:Well think about what right now in The UK, think about what, you know, the Suhakians at the Davittoff of London. Think about what JJ Fox, think about Souders, think about all these folks over there. Hunters and Franco. They're seeing right now an end date to the operation of their business.
Bam Bam:That's correct.
Gizmo:So what do you do? Do you diversify? Do you double down? Or do you get out? Yeah.
Gizmo:Those are the three choices.
Bam Bam:And there'll be a shifting of product from those areas to regions where they're open like The Middle East, like China, Asia, parts of Asia, most of Asia, if not all of it.
Gizmo:And the manufacturers that you mentioned are gonna stop spending money to try to get new customers in those markets because- Oh yeah. The customer base is shrinking every single day.
Bam Bam:You'll see Padron in Dubai soon. If this continues. And other markets.
Gizmo:All right, boys. Let's go now to our pairing. We have an interesting one tonight. Thank Christ. Shout out we have to shout out Wild Bill here at ten eighty six who came in with this bottle and literally handed it to me and said, here is a bottle of Havana Club that I purchased at an auction.
Gizmo:I had never seen this specific bottle before. Senator knows a little bit about it, but this is the Havana Club Edicien Profesional, the letter b. So it's one of four, a b c d. This is letter b. It says rich and smoky dark Cuban rum.
Gizmo:So we're gonna try this tonight on the pod boys. Cheers.
Bam Bam:Cheers.
Gizmo:Good to see you.
Bam Bam:Wild Bill. Thank you.
Gizmo:Thank you to Wild Bill. Good man. I'd like to also apologize to the room. I forgot the Glencairn glasses tonight. Mhmm.
Gizmo:I forgot my briefcase. Unbelievable. I'm sorry.
Senator:Well, we can't rate it then.
Gizmo:I'm very I'm very sorry. I'd like to apologize.
Bam Bam:Oh, that's nice. Me like.
Gizmo:It's good.
Bam Bam:I like it.
Senator:The finish is really quite delicious. And long.
Bam Bam:It's got
Senator:a long finish.
Bam Bam:Like a cotton. For me, it's weird. I know cotton, like a cotton candy finish and that type of sweetness on the on the tail end of it. Very strong, but it's not overly sweet. It's got good balance.
Bam Bam:Just a faint touch of heat, which I love.
Chef Ricky:Yeah. I'm getting some light molasses. I like the viscosity, the texture on this spirit. It's little bit thicker. Smooth.
Chef Ricky:Than your usual Havana club.
Bam Bam:We're club. Forgot about that.
Gizmo:So, senator, we were talking about this. So this is apparently, was bottled in 2018. There were only 998 cases of each of these, I guess, made. And this specific one was aged in x whiskey and a 100 liter white oak casks, which are up to 70 years old. This is three aged rum bases, of which one is aged in Isla casks for twelve months.
Bam Bam:Did you say white oak casks?
Gizmo:White oak casks and ex Isla whiskey casks, both a 180 liters.
Bam Bam:It's strange.
Gizmo:Up to 70 years old oh, up to seven years old, the age of the casks.
Bam Bam:Yeah. I'm not getting
Senator:Nothing is strange. I mean, the the operative part there is that what's different with this than any other Havana club is that it's aged in ex Scotch barrels
Chef Ricky:That's correct.
Senator:Specifically Islay, which some peedier you get peedier notes out of. The the strategy behind this I think was very smart on Havana's part. I mean, if you talk to any Cuban here, but even, you know, people in Havana, there's a fascination with single malt scotch. Oh, yeah. You know?
Senator:And it's true everywhere. You want what you can't have. So for us, we're fascinated with rum, Cuban rum, because we can't have it. For them, they have Cuban rum all the time. They're fascinated with single malts.
Bam Bam:I'm I'm familiar with the affliction.
Senator:And both obviously pair, you know, really well with a cigar, and so I think Havana Club realized instead of it being the case that for, you know, a rum drinker to then split their time between rum and single malt scotch to actually try to impart some of that smokiness in their rum to appeal to the scotch connoisseur would be really useful for them. And so, you know, they came out with these kind of test releases. I think there were you said what? Four different Yeah.
Gizmo:A, b, c, and d. This is b.
Senator:Out of that, they must have picked some winner. And then what came out, you know, a few years ago, you just see it's like Havana club Smoky in giant letters. And so whichever one of these one is just meant to represent the Havana club that is aged in those Islay Scotch barrels, at least partially aged in them. So I think it's very smart. I mean, you always had to pick one or the other, Scotch or rum, and this is meant to kind of try to give you the best of both worlds.
Senator:So I at least I think it makes a ton of sense.
Rooster:So are they just different batches or the ABCD, or is it different barrels?
Gizmo:I think it's different recipes in the aging of the barrels or something.
Senator:I would guess, again, my guess that each of those four, they aged for different periods of time in those Ex Isla scotch barrels to understand how smoky or how peedy people wanted that to be. That would be my guess.
Gizmo:So this is seven years aged Havana Club. So it's just a a bit of a variation on the Havana club that we're used to.
Bam Bam:I like it. It's unusual. There's a fruit note I can't put my thumb on. Could be apricot. I don't know, but it's there.
Bam Bam:Yeah. It's really quite good.
Senator:And I'll say this, having had the release that they ultimately settled on and now bottle in that big smoky
Gizmo:package. Is that easy to find?
Senator:Oh, yeah. I mean, I was shocked like a few years ago, we were in Havana. I don't remember that. Huge displays of it. I mean, huge.
Gizmo:Bam, the one that you dropped in the airport, was that the original or the smoky version? Smoky.
Rooster:Very smoky.
Bam Bam:You know how much I love you.
Gizmo:I saw that by the way. I was looking at pictures from Havana the other day and I saw that picture of you just ejected in some smash bottle on the floor.
Rooster:That wasn't smoky, was the evaporated version. Correct.
Gizmo:And he still paid for it.
Bam Bam:That's rare nectar on the floor, man. Damn it.
Senator:So, yeah, it's definitely readily available. They've got huge displays of it. What I think having had the final release, what they ultimately settled on, it is in the, you know, big smoky letters, the new packaging for it. It's definitely peatier than this, which I think makes sense. Like, honestly, this to
Gizmo:It's me not that different.
Senator:Yeah. It's not that different from regular Havana club.
Bam Bam:It's not peaty at all.
Senator:It finishes whiskey like, but not scotch whiskey like. No.
Chef Ricky:Yes. I'm finding some tannic notes at the end.
Gizmo:I agree. That's For
Chef Ricky:me, feels a little peaty. Not peaty, but the
Bam Bam:stiffer is there, and there's a touch of heat that I don't ever get, which the heat's fantastic, that I don't ever get on the traditional
Senator:Yeah. The heat I get is like a whiskey like finish.
Chef Ricky:It's a warming. Exactly.
Senator:But I don't get peat per se No. From scotch whiskey. No. And that's why I think this could not have been the winner because I've had the winner that they have ultimately settled on, and you definitely get some peat in that. So I think that's why they tested of the range of peatiness that was desirable.
Senator:And I don't think if you're like a scotch connoisseur that this screams like enough peat to really satisfy your palate.
Gizmo:I don't think if you gave this to a scotch drinker, they're gonna be like, oh, yeah. This is really getting me. Right. You know? I don't think it's it's going to do it.
Gizmo:Yeah. I think there's a little bit of I don't want to call it weirdness, but those things you're describing at the end of the finish, it's different. I wouldn't say it's something that I'm like
Chef Ricky:Chasing or
Gizmo:Chasing or loving or needing.
Bam Bam:I happen to like it.
Gizmo:You know? It's good. I mean, to me, it just tastes like a little bit of a tweak on
Bam Bam:Yeah. Havana club stuff.
Gizmo:The seven year that we're we're used to.
Senator:Yeah. I think the only thing that's interesting is the finish is definitely longer. Very longer. And I think because of that, and you know, Chef was talking about this having more viscosity than like the traditional Havana club, which I agree with, I think, you know, this actually could hold up well to some like fuller bodied cigars even.
Bam Bam:Yep. New worlds for sure.
Chef Ricky:I agree.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Everything worth smoking, honestly.
Gizmo:So it's interesting. It says here that the professional edition rum was created when a shipment of whiskey barrels arrived in Cuba by mistake. Azbel Morales, who's the Maestro del Ron Cubano, seized the opportunity to marry the dry whiskey notes with his richest Cuban rums to perfect the rums as a base for new cocktails, which is what the intention here, I guess, is. Acclaimed bartender Nick Strangeway. Okay.
Gizmo:Sounds like a BAM alias.
Bam Bam:Correct.
Gizmo:Joined to work on the final profile. So this was distilled in Roniara, San Jose, and is bottled at 40%, 80 ABB.
Bam Bam:Very generous gift by Wild Bill.
Gizmo:Yeah, it's awesome. He doesn't love rum, but I guess at the time he was drinking So he bought this at some auction for 60 or $70 and said, hey. Very nice. See what you guys think of this.
Senator:And from what I've seen, like in even airports where I've seen this, it's very similarly priced to Havana seven. Maybe, like, plus or minus $5. It's not meaningfully different.
Gizmo:So boys, we're coming to the end of the first third now on the Vegas Robaina Unicos paired with this interesting take on Havana club seven, the Edicien Profesional. What's everybody thinking right now? Cigar has actually picked up for me a little bit in creaminess, sweetness. Like, I'm actually enjoying the entrance into the second, third now. It's it's definitely improving in flavor for me.
Bam Bam:Creamy?
Gizmo:Yeah. There's a little creaminess to it. And that's before I took a sip of the the rum, I'd like to say.
Senator:I'll agree in the sense that it is definitely improving. So the first third, I'm not gonna lie, I was frustrated with this Me too.
Gizmo:This is ridiculous.
Senator:I found it boring Yeah. And unrefined and uninspiring. The second third, now I'm like finally getting some more concentrated flavor notes that are not just like heavily earthy. So some of the more sweet notes, I think there's more balance now. It's smoking a bit more refined.
Senator:Now I'm starting to enjoy what I'm getting.
Bam Bam:I think all of that is true. I'm just confused by it because for me, it's not smoking like a traditional Cuban cigar.
Gizmo:In what way?
Bam Bam:I think the body of it, the the particular notes, which for me, I typically you know, I'll go I'll get dried fruit. I'll get a biscuit. I'll get some sort of combination of salt and savory in it in a great Cuban. I'm I'm getting some of those, but honestly, this is smoking almost like a new world cigar.
Senator:I don't disagree with that, but I've always felt that way about this cigar. Just the touch. It is very
Rooster:I agree.
Senator:Out of step from the traditional Cuban cigar like you're saying.
Bam Bam:But I don't but I like it. You know, I I can't say that I hate it. It's keeping my attention because of how unusual it is, but it's a little different.
Chef Ricky:I think if it were a new world cigar, we'd be praising it because it's smoking Cubanesque.
Gizmo:I don't know though, man. I mean, even if this were an $8 non Cuban pyramid, I think I'd be feeling the same. It's okay. It's uninteresting, and it's not something that I'm thinking about, like, what am I gonna do with the rest of this box? Can't wait to smoke it.
Gizmo:Is this gonna sit in my humidor for another six and a half years?
Bam Bam:I'll take it.
Gizmo:Alright. We'll make a deal afterwards.
Chef Ricky:For me, I I still feel like you know, I was getting all these these peaks as I say of creaminess and sweetness. And I think it's because I just been drawing so hard trying to get some smoke to come through. I feel like I'm smoking through a cinder block. Like, I'm I'm trying to, you know, inhale and it's like slightly porous, but not enough to
Bam Bam:Great experience.
Gizmo:Bam, do you ever try to get that on a job site?
Bam Bam:Some ash, you know, little lime powder.
Gizmo:I will say right now, if there was a news report tomorrow that said the Vegas Robaina Unicos was canceled by Habanos, I'm not gonna lose any sleep. Okay? That's how I feel right now. At six and a half years of age, this is the product of that. I'm out.
Bam Bam:It's not a bad cigar, though.
Gizmo:I just don't care.
Bam Bam:I know. I know.
Senator:No. But it's it's crazy. Am I wrong? Am I wrong? Like I said, it's uninspiring.
Senator:There's nothing about it that really grabs you in any particular way.
Bam Bam:Middle of the road.
Rooster:And as I'm smoking the cigar, I get pockets of resistance. It's weird. It's smoking fine, and all of a sudden, the draw constricts.
Chef Ricky:All of a sudden, you hit a cinder block.
Gizmo:Yeah, it's weird.
Bam Bam:You having any stamina issues over there? Oh, boy.
Senator:And the smoke output sucks. Mean, it's frustrating.
Bam Bam:Yeah. There's no smoke in
Rooster:the room at all. This is a pyramid. Correct.
Gizmo:I mean, right now, I would take a fresh Diplomatico number two box. I'd buy an entire box before I'd buy a fiver of these with age on it.
Senator:I agree.
Gizmo:Even if these were discounted, I'd still take They're
Bam Bam:never gonna be.
Chef Ricky:I'd take the Mirafil we
Gizmo:did last week. Mean, that was two weeks ago.
Chef Ricky:Yeah. Oh, two weeks.
Gizmo:Man, time to Yeah.
Bam Bam:Stellar
Gizmo:cigar. Last week, we did the the Bond Robert Stallis.
Rooster:That's right.
Gizmo:And the accountability hour.
Bam Bam:Another stellar cigar. North Korea visit.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. Let's go to another news story now. This one's very exciting. I know this is gonna hit home in this room. La Fort Dominicana has announced their Espejo de Lito Humidor coming out at a price of $20,000.
Rooster:Ben.
Senator:An LFD.
Bam Bam:That is outrageous.
Gizmo:With a 150 cigars in it, $20,000.
Bam Bam:There is an economic downturn we're in the middle of, aren't we?
Gizmo:Not not in the Dominican Republic, I
Bam Bam:guess not.
Gizmo:So there's three cigars. There's gonna be a 50 of each of these. The Origins
Chef Ricky:That's 20,000 Dominican pesos.
Gizmo:No. It's 20,000 US dollars. If you wanna do the math, divide that out by a 150. I'd love to know what the per cigar cost is. Wow.
Gizmo:Three cigars, 50 each. The origin's 52 by seven. They say it's calling back to vintage vintage LFD flavor through the nostalgic flavors of Cameroon. The cigar leads us back to the very beginning when an unlikely dream was cultivated.
Chef Ricky:$1.33 per stick.
Gizmo:$133 per stick. You can get Lido's Revolution, which is a chisel 54 by seven. Very famous chisel tip. I think that's the only patented cigar Vitola in the world. Correct?
Gizmo:Think the chisel? Believe so. Strikingly simple yet a bold rejection of the norm. Nothing better emblemizes Lido's maverick attitude and vision of what a Dominican cigar could be full bodied, full flavored, and in every way LFD. And finally, the Futora 52 by seven.
Gizmo:I love these. The past cultivates the future and the fog of what lies ahead is characterized by the dark and enigmatic. That's a toilet paper That's toilet paper work. Notes in this unique blend. Much of the story is yet to be told.
Gizmo:Legacy awaits evolving in the shadows. For $20,000, you can have one of the nine of these available soon from LFD. So, Bam, are you gonna buy one of these? $20,000?
Bam Bam:No.
Gizmo:Listen, I'll tell you this. Somebody's gonna buy them because when Pagoda and I were at Pro Cigar, one of these humidors very similar to this sold for $51,000
Bam Bam:On auction.
Gizmo:Now, of course, that's going to charity. I don't know if that's the same thing here, but it's a really nice humidor. Has a motif of Lido on it with his hat on smoking a cigar. Looks really nice.
Bam Bam:It's quite gorgeous, actually.
Rooster:It is
Senator:a nice humidor.
Gizmo:Yeah. But it's expensive, man.
Bam Bam:But $20,000 you really have
Rooster:But there's be only nine.
Gizmo:There's only nine available.
Bam Bam:You've really gotta be a fan of LFD. They're a great cigar maker. I don't know. It's very gimmicky.
Gizmo:Listen, I love Padron. I love our partner Fabrica Five. And
Rooster:I wouldn't buy
Gizmo:I would never buy a $20,000 euro for any reason from anyone.
Bam Bam:Correct.
Gizmo:By the way
Bam Bam:Great state.
Gizmo:Out of principle, for how much we love Padron, I have still not tried the Fuente Padron collaboration, the For legends
Bam Bam:how much is that? Because they're
Gizmo:like $300 a stick.
Chef Ricky:$2.50.
Bam Bam:Oh, no.
Gizmo:Thanks. Like, I'm not touching that.
Rooster:That's not bad.
Gizmo:I'm honestly for how much I love Padron, I'm not interested.
Senator:Understand. Ben probably had one at North Korea
Bam Bam:last week. I got got kind of them at home.
Gizmo:Let's continue on now. This one's really exciting. Very apropos to us smoking a Cupid cigar tonight. Obviously, we know that this year is the sixtieth anniversary of Cohiba, And we also know that the Habana's festival was canceled this year, right, with everything going on. Well, I guess this was supposed to launch at the festival, but Estee Dupont has launched the Cohiba's sixtieth anniversary accessory series.
Gizmo:So there are seven total items involved in this, including, you know, lighters, the the line two soft flame, which is $2,300, $2,320. The Legrand Dupont sixtieth, $2,675. Then there's a massive table lighter. I guess it's one of those that literally takes up the whole palm of your hand. $800 on that.
Gizmo:Then they have the cutter, you know, perfect cutter thing. $280. The leather cigar case, $320. And then the ashtray, this is the crazy one. Three cigar porcelain ashtray priced at $755 for an ashtray.
Bam Bam:What are we doing? That's what is going on?
Rooster:Cashing out.
Gizmo:There's also Bam, this is exciting for you. You're a big fashion guy.
Bam Bam:Oh, okay.
Gizmo:They've announced the gold plated cufflinks coming from ST DuPont.
Bam Bam:Interesting.
Gizmo:Priced at only $375. Is it
Bam Bam:in the shape of a lighter?
Gizmo:It's actually the Tyano head. So you can have those on your wrist.
Bam Bam:Okay.
Gizmo:As cufflinks. Actually, I think they're pretty cool, but I'm not spending $400 on those. So I guess this is, you know, like I said, supposed to have been announced at the Habana's Festival this year in celebration of Cohiba's sixtieth, but they are announcing it this way now. So you're gonna have to chase Bam down to get some of those cufflinks. Finally, one more.
Gizmo:This one we talked about the tobacconist of Greenwich doing the Legend series. So they have this big Legends event. It's a big charity thing that they're doing. You know, Padron, Foundation, Fuente, all those other manufacturers. Kellner's doing one as well.
Gizmo:They finally announced the Arturo Fuente component to this, which is an Opus x 25 Toro, which is going to exclusively be released in the titans of tobacco series with tobacconists of Greenwich. It's a 52 by six soft pressed Toro, and it's gonna be priced at $95 a cigar. So we're seeing these prices creep up. Yeah. You know?
Gizmo:Seems like there's no end to it. You know? It's like we got to the $35 mark. We got to the $50 mark. We got to the $75 mark.
Gizmo:Now we're seeing new release cigars coming almost close to $100
Bam Bam:You know, at one time, you can understand the price increases there. You know, what Cuba is doing with their price increasing and all the new world markets trying to keep up with that. You kind of have a dissipation in, I think, the demand for Cuban cigars maybe overall, but yet the new world continues to increase their prices. They should scale back their costs. Lower the prices, they'll sell more cigars.
Bam Bam:We're not pursuing Cubans. Many people aren't because of what's happening. I just don't understand the continuous pricing of all these new world markets.
Rooster:When have you ever seen prices of Never. Anything go Have
Bam Bam:their cost of goods and cost of labor and cost of expenses increased that much to justify these huge increases in new world cigars? Absolutely. Don't think so.
Gizmo:I think what they're reacting to is what you see when they put the MSRP of an Opus X at $30 and then the retailer is successfully selling them at 75 or 80.
Bam Bam:Yeah, it's also true.
Gizmo:If you're Arturo Fuente, do you have any other option except to accept that that is the market value of your cigar?
Bam Bam:It's pursuing
Gizmo:that money. It's being set by the market. Now, do I think it's a good thing? No. Do I think it's unfortunate?
Gizmo:Yes. But it's what people are willing to pay for these cigars. It's crazy.
Rooster:I don't know. Let the generational ban go through.
Chef Ricky:Jay, you're free and clear, sir mister. Yeah.
Bam Bam:No worries there.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. Let's go now to some listener feedback. We're gonna start talking about the Ernesto Perez Carrillo interview that we did a few weeks ago on episode 237. First comment here from our friend Lizard Chris on FOH. She says, I've never disagreed with senator Moore on anything than his opinion of the new Acela trains from Amtrak.
Gizmo:They were designed by the French, which is obviously by their euro sterility and failure at providing even the most basic comforts. The seat cushions are too hard. The seats themselves are too inflexible, and the lack of a recline function is awful. No. The ability of the seat bottom to slide my ass further from the back does not substitute for a proper recline.
Gizmo:New York to DC takes marginally longer on the Northeast Regional, costs materially less, and now might be more comfortable. Amtrak has ruined one of my favorite modes of transportation. Senator has his left hand on his brow, and his eyes are closed, and he seems upset. And let's go to him
Bam Bam:now. And eyebrows are furled.
Chef Ricky:He's gearing up.
Senator:I I mean, I'm sorry. That's ridiculous. So for for this listener, with all due respect, I love Lizard Nation, and I'm sure this is a fine
Gizmo:Lizard Chris is a great dude. We actually have a voice memo for him tonight. Oh, let's do it.
Senator:The the operative thing. So, yes, the seats right now, they're very firm. If you've been on any new plane, any new any It takes time. Exactly. All the seats.
Senator:I mean, keep in mind, these seats have to last for decades. They're super firm when they're brand new. They get broken in over time. So, yes, of course, right now, I agree. The seats are super firm.
Senator:I remember when JetBlue came out with their mint product, the lie flats that they have. Their seats were rock hard. But you know over time, obviously, that will be broken in, and now they're very comfortable seats.
Gizmo:So And now on United, they're just broken.
Senator:Yeah. So I just would caution that lizard, you need to give it time. I would not at all be concerned. There's no design flaw in what they did there. The design, I think they did an outstanding job.
Senator:I mean, to describe it as sterile, like, the old Acela trains, they they they they almost look dirty. Like, they're they're just old. They're dated. These are modern. They're sleek.
Senator:They're clean. I think the design, they did an excellent job with. The recline, I actually like I said, on that episode, that was my first time on one of those trains, and I was working pretty much on a laptop the whole way through, so I didn't attempt to recline. I thought I saw there was a button too, so I'll definitely check the next time. And if there's zero recline, that's absurd.
Gizmo:That's crazy.
Senator:Yeah. I mean, you're paying like literally, I pay round trip when I take that to sell like 600 from
Gizmo:New York Are you to serious? That much. Wow.
Senator:It's that much, which is the same as a first class flight from New York to DC.
Bam Bam:Yeah, it is.
Senator:So there definitely ought to be a recline. If truly there's not, that's a massive problem, but I'll wait until I experience that for myself. What were his other complaints?
Gizmo:He was saying that New York to DC takes marginally longer on Northeast Regional, costs materially less, and now might be more comfortable. So he'd rather take Northeast Regional than Acela.
Senator:I mean, the Northeast Regional is like almost like taking the Greyhound.
Gizmo:Mean, it's
Senator:now, I've I've done By the way,
Gizmo:I love how passionate Lizard Nation gets Yeah.
Bam Bam:Good. Mean, you're good.
Gizmo:About modes of travel. Correct. We've inspired them to. Correct. I mean, there are like, some
Senator:of the Northeast Regional trains, I'll I'll give him this, have been updated, so they're they're not they're not bad. And if I was traveling for personal reasons, sure, you save a ton of money on the Northeast Regional than you do taking the Acela, and, yeah, I'd be happy to do that. But as a business traveler, when you're going to a meeting, when you are nicely dressed, and you wanna get there like crisp and clean, you can't replicate that on the Northeast Regional. There's not even assigned seating, I will remind this lizard, on the Northeast Regional. So you're like putzing around the freaking train going car to car just trying to find an empty seat when you're traveling at a popular time on the Acela, everything is preassigned.
Senator:So for all those reasons, I think Amtrak did an excellent job with the new trains. Give the seats some time. But his point is well taken for personal travel, of course, you save a ton of money taking the regional. There's not like a compelling reason to pay $600 to go from New York to DC round trip if you're just going to have a, you know, fun weekend in in Washington or New York or wherever.
Rooster:I'm sure the food is better.
Gizmo:You're saying on Acela versus Northeast, yeah, versus Northeast Regional. Sure.
Senator:Right? Yes and no. So if you're just in a standard business class seat on the Acela or a standard seat on the Northeast Regional, you just go to the food car basically, which has like very basic rudimentary stuff, nothing great. You're gonna be having a bag of chips or if you're really daring a shitty burger that they're zapping in something.
Gizmo:So great.
Bam Bam:Delicious. For all of the Jetsons.
Senator:For first class on the Acela, you get a proper meal. For first class on the regional, you get a meal, but it's not the same as the Acela. That's where there's the difference. The food quality is way better on the Acela than there would be in first class on the regional.
Bam Bam:Honestly, I do like the sound of arriving at a meeting crisp, undisheveled. How's the strapping? Like, how does that work on your waist? Is it Oh, there's no
Gizmo:seat belt. There's no seat belt. I love it. Bam, anti seat belt. We learned that today.
Bam Bam:Well, I take trains often, so actually ever. But I do like arriving crisp.
Gizmo:Of course. That's attractive. In your Crocs.
Bam Bam:Well, for work.
Gizmo:Lizard Kristoff, we'll continue on here, responding to our conversation about the pending Gurka review we have coming up. Says Gurkha has, like, a 100 different lines or something. I'm sure one is good. Have I ever smoked it? Nope.
Gizmo:I've actually, by the way, hand up. I've never smoked a Gurkha. Has anybody in this room?
Bam Bam:I have had.
Gizmo:I have. You have. Okay. Unfortunately, yes. He says, perhaps it's unfair, but I'm really repelled by the Gurkha's marketing.
Gizmo:I find the branding atrocious, the name stupid, the band's gaudy, and off putting. I'm also instantly repelled by celebrity additions. As icing on the cake, they refer to themselves as, quote, the Rolls Royce of cigars, end quote. I think they're smoking something other than the cigars in the Gurkha's offices because even though I don't care that much about cars, I tend to equate Rolls Royce with class, which this cigar brand uniquely lacks any iota of in every aspect of its marketing. In short, there's just nothing appealing about it.
Gizmo:So what I said to him is, listen. I couldn't agree more, but that's why I find it intriguing that Lizard Luigi is so passionate about us trying the Gurka, especially the Nicaragua series he sent us. I am gonna come into that episode cautiously optimistic, honestly. I just wanna say I have not this has always been in the back of my mind.
Senator:How are they in business?
Gizmo:I don't get it, dude.
Senator:Yeah. Think about our entire lives smoking cigars. How many people
Rooster:I've never seen one.
Senator:Ever seen smoking a Gurga?
Bam Bam:Never.
Chef Ricky:Not one time. I've only ever seen them in country clubs and people that go to them.
Rooster:Have you seen them at the store?
Gizmo:No. No. I've never come across mean, you'll see them at Casa De Monte Cristo, JR.
Senator:Yeah. I've seen them in some stores, but I've never seen a human being smoking them.
Gizmo:Not one
Rooster:time. What's the price point on these?
Gizmo:On these, I think they're in the teens. They vary. Low teens. But I think you can get cheap stuff, and then didn't they have the most expensive cigar in the world? That's right.
Gizmo:Had that crazy so.
Bam Bam:Yeah. 10,000.
Gizmo:Yeah. Like crazy Gurka thing. I mean, to your point, senator, when we go to PCA, they have one of the biggest booths there.
Bam Bam:They do.
Gizmo:So clearly there is some sort of budget Yeah. But I'm saying, is this money coming from?
Senator:I'm sorry. Their sales can They're
Bam Bam:probably buying their own cigars.
Gizmo:But do you think, like, maybe it's, like, because they're putting, like, starter packs or something at CI? Or
Bam Bam:I don't know.
Gizmo:I don't understand it.
Senator:I mean, that's how I first had a Gurkha. It came in a sampler pack. And the only Gurkha I will say that I had early in my smoking journey that was
Bam Bam:Do you remember the name
Senator:of it? Good. I do. These are unusual names for cigars. Actually a very simple name, and it it fit this cigar.
Senator:It was called the Gurka Beauty. And it was, to this day, one of the creamiest cigars I've ever had.
Gizmo:Really?
Senator:Really. Now I remembered having this early in my cigar journey, and so, like, years later, I actually bought a single of it wanting to try it again. I mean, I vividly remember how creamy this cigar was. It was insane. Like, to the point you almost felt like something unnatural was done to make a cigar like that creamy, voluminous smoke, and it was absolutely nothing like the cigar I had.
Senator:And I started doing some just like googling on it, and people said apparently they like changed the blend, and it's nothing like the old original ones. So that's like my only one positive experience. Now again, that's a milder cigar. It's not anything that we would have put in our daily rotation. But like for a morning creamy cigar, the very original release of that was actually enjoyable.
Senator:But outside of that, I think I had one other darker, wrapper Gurga that came in a sampler pack and was disgusting.
Bam Bam:Yeah. I think I had one fifteen years ago called I don't remember. I think it was called the tribal warrior or something.
Gizmo:Or the It came with face paint.
Bam Bam:Something. It was okay. The idiot means.
Gizmo:I mean, here's my question though. If you said it was a good creamy experience, why didn't you go back and buy another one? Like, what prevented it? I told you I did. No.
Gizmo:But years later, you did, I'm saying. Yeah. Why when you had it initially
Senator:I'll tell you exactly why.
Gizmo:Why did you not go back?
Senator:Because this was I got it in a sampler when I was young and out of college and not making any significant sum of money. That cigar, I looked up the retail price, it was like a $35 stick.
Gizmo:Wow.
Senator:Yikes. So I was like, fuck that. I'm not gonna be smoking every day a 30 something dollar cigar. I mean, I was a kid out of college.
Gizmo:You know, they had that Mike Tyson collab. If you remember the first year we were at PCA, that was the release of the Mike Tyson thing.
Bam Bam:That's right.
Gizmo:I don't even know if they're still in business with him, but when we first went to PCA in It Vegas exists. It's still in production?
Rooster:Was it called the
Senator:Oh, you saw it in Turks and Cigars.
Gizmo:The Turks. That's right.
Senator:I couldn't believe it. And, like, the box was there weren't many left.
Gizmo:Really? Well, that's because the Gurka people were there. They went and
Bam Bam:Oh, like I
Gizmo:said bought it, like Bam said. Was it
Rooster:called the bite?
Gizmo:Jesus.
Bam Bam:Going off the rails tonight.
Gizmo:So we'll see how Gurkha does. I think it'll be hilarious if we fall in love with it and we all end up smoking Gurkha. I think that's gonna be
Bam Bam:Did you pick the one for us?
Gizmo:An interesting what's that?
Bam Bam:Did you pick one for us?
Gizmo:No. Lizard Luigi sent a box. So we're gonna smoke the box that Lizard Luigi sent to us. Cool. Alright.
Gizmo:Here's one that's critical of our friend Bam Bam here.
Bam Bam:What else is there?
Gizmo:Lizard John in Cleveland says, keep up the good work, gents. You guys are to podcasting what f o h is to the Internet, a breath of fresh air. I love the pod. Can we get Bam to stop saying old boy? No.
Gizmo:I'd pay good money. Nope. Thank
Bam Bam:you. I'll give you my bank account. No problem.
Gizmo:He can wire something in.
Bam Bam:Correct.
Gizmo:So I said, I'll ask, you know, I'll ask, you
Bam Bam:Well, someone wanted me to stop saying correct.
Rooster:Correct.
Gizmo:And Lizard Greg here said, you know, because I said to Lizard John, I said, What's the current offer for BAM? I'll let him know. And Lizard Greg chimed in, A couple gallons of milk, easily a few $100 of value
Chef Ricky:That's correct.
Rooster:To
Gizmo:BAM. So we always appreciate our friends on FOH. Of course, we have a bunch of email and stuff coming up. But, boys, we are coming to the end of the second third now on the Vegas Robaina Unicos. What's the experience like for you guys right now?
Bam Bam:I wanna hear from Chef.
Rooster:Mediocre. Mine too.
Chef Ricky:Yeah. Yeah. I'm bored. I feel a little disconnected from the experience tonight. One dimensional.
Chef Ricky:Yeah. And it's still I was kind of hoping it would open up. Sometimes when cigars are this tight, they tend to open up as you get closer to finishing it. But it's still just as resistant for me. And I'm just getting maybe at best, I'm getting some nutty notes and a little spice.
Rooster:I feel like the aroma I'm getting more out of the aroma than the draw.
Bam Bam:You're not getting any sweetness right now?
Gizmo:Sweetness? I'm getting a little bit, but I it's not anything that, like, of note.
Senator:Yeah. I'm having a different experience since since
Bam Bam:you are. Find that the it's nicely balanced. A little there's a savory. There's a little sweetness. It's It still captures my attention.
Bam Bam:If I can say anything about it, it's keeping my attention.
Rooster:Like, it wouldn't make me wanna buy a five pack of even
Gizmo:I know. I agree. I agree. Agree.
Bam Bam:That's true.
Senator:So I'll say for me, the start of the final third, suddenly, the smoke output picked up dramatically.
Gizmo:That's kinda like what I've had the entire experience tonight because
Rooster:I've had pretty
Senator:good smoke with. True. Yeah. And I started to enjoy it, and then the flavor profile got sweeter. Yes.
Senator:So like the only moments of joy for me in this cigar was the start of the final third. As I'm going further along into it, the smoke output's still there, but that sweetness is starting to fade slowly, and the earthiness is starting to pick up a bit. So I'm curious how this is gonna end. But Yeah. For a good five minute stretch, like, I was actually very pleased with this, but the rest has not been that great.
Rooster:I mean, it's disappointing for a pyramid like this size to
Gizmo:get With six five and a half years of age, Rooster. Yeah,
Rooster:and to get five minutes of greatness, and then the rest is just mediocre.
Bam Bam:Correct.
Gizmo:I've not had minutes of greatness. I've had minutes of decency. Overall though, I find this to be a lackluster experience,
Bam Bam:Well, that's you use the word greatness. There's some satisfaction there because of that sweet and savory balance. It's fairly pleasurable for a fleeting moment there.
Senator:It is, but I think for me, and it sounds like for a number of other lizards in the room, that it has been imbalanced.
Bam Bam:Oh, yeah. Totally.
Gizmo:Oh, I
Senator:agree. The earthiness has overpowered the sweetness. And that's why when I said, like, I had five minutes of joy, it was like, that's where the balance was perfect.
Bam Bam:I'm kinda there now for me.
Senator:The rest though has been imbalanced.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Like, the the first third was very earthy with a very, very faint sweetness, which you couldn't enjoy because it wasn't
Rooster:And the cigar hasn't changed. It's very one dimensional. It's the similar notes, just varying degrees. And the earthiness and the mustiness and the barnyard, that really is still the dominating note. Well, that's all gone for me.
Rooster:I remember this cigar being you get a lot more chocolate and coffee, and I'm not getting any of that.
Senator:I've gotten very little cocoa at all. And it's so strange because exactly like you're describing, the first note that I always associated a Unicos with was cocoa because that was the dominant note, and then in the background was the earthiness. And this, like the earthiness is the star, but the cocoa, it's not even there in the background. It's like disappeared.
Bam Bam:I haven't had a hint of cocoa in this at all. Strange.
Rooster:Yeah. I don't know. It's probably the way these are kept.
Bam Bam:Oh.
Gizmo:I I I find this to be I'm I think I'm with chef. I think there's this is overall, it's mediocrity. I I think for six and a half years for the the cigar that it should be and could be, I think the blend is way off. You know? I I think that the fact that we're having this consistent of an up and down experience in the room tonight lends me to believe that the blend's not right.
Gizmo:I I you know, even coming back to the cigar, I was hoping that smoking even a little bit older of a box than we did last time with this much this many more years on it than that 21 that we smoked. I mean, I was hoping it was gonna be great. When we smoked this in '22, we were smoking a '21 box. Now we're smoking a 20 box in '26.
Senator:Yeah. And I think this is also instructive. Know, it is not the case that every cigar categorically does better with age. Exactly. Had this conversation with Delillo in Havana.
Senator:And so I think this is a perfect example of a cigar that actually smokes the way it is intended in its first few years because for Rooster and I both to vividly remember, like cocoa being the dominant note, the fact that that has dissipated so much to the point that it's nonexistent six years later, clearly this is not how the blend is meant to smoke at its peak, And I think those first few years of age are really what represents what the blend was intended to be.
Bam Bam:Remember what Danula said about his aging program? There is none.
Gizmo:Yeah. Two to three years is at most That's
Bam Bam:at most how long he'll keep a cigar. You know what? It's an interesting take.
Rooster:What's mind boggling is that the same marker makes the Classico.
Gizmo:And the Vimoso.
Rooster:Which is discontinued, and yet this is still being rolled. And the Classico is such a classic cigar.
Bam Bam:And they can't get
Rooster:it It's one of the best cigars we have ever had. And then this is complete opposite. It's odd.
Gizmo:Yeah. I'm I'm quite disappointed tonight with this. How's the pairing working for you right now with the cigar?
Senator:I actually think very well in the sense that, like, you know, BAM called out before that this smokes more like a new world cigar, and I agree it does. And the fact that this Havana club has more body and more viscosity to hold up to like a full bodied New World, I think it actually works really well with this.
Bam Bam:I think a Padron would be great with this bottle. Actually, everything we're smoking would work well with this.
Gizmo:Do you think that with this additional, you know, these different casks, same age, different casks, do you think because of that Havana seven in this presentation, or even more so, like you're saying, what the actual production presentation of the smoky, quote unquote, version of the Seven is. Do you think that that version of Seven reaches further into the depths of the cigars that we smoke outside of Cuba, or do you think it's kind of the same, just with a little bit different of a twist at the end of of the you know? It's
Senator:hard to say because
Bam Bam:it's a common question.
Senator:It's it's pretty nuanced. I mean, the version Havana Club landed on with the big letters smoky on the bottle, that has a pronounced peatiness. Now, not an overpowering one, it's not like Lefroyd or anything like that, but you
Gizmo:Is it know like Talisker? Yeah. Probably like Talisker.
Senator:I'd love to try Like, you know the peat's there, and it's it's cool to see it because you don't ever get that in a rum. So I think because it is very clearly present, you would pick and choose the cigars that you would want to pair that with. In the same way that I think for us, like, we have some cigars that we would actually want to pair with a peaty with a a scotch that peat is present in, you know, like the earthiness that's in a Pedrona Exclusivo, like, actually does really well with a cigar that sorry, with a scotch that has some peat.
Bam Bam:Never a Cuban for me Right. With a peaty scotch.
Gizmo:I mean, lot of folks that that do though, man. Yeah.
Senator:I'm sure. And I
Gizmo:I honestly, we are in the very small minority, I think, of folks who love bourbon, peaty scotches, etcetera, I I think we're in the very small category of folks who don't love pairing that with Cuban cigars. I agree. I think we're very much in the minority, and I think our listenership kind of agrees with that. When they get critical of us saying something's too hot or something's too high of an ABV, I mean, a lot of folks are drinking foolproof spirits With? With Cupid cigars.
Bam Bam:A QD.
Chef Ricky:Yeah. I don't think they're necessarily pairing, they're just combining two things they really enjoy, and it works for them because they enjoy both things separately and together, but I don't think they pair well. I think when we do this, we're aiming to pair something and have that pairing be successful.
Gizmo:I think that's It's also
Senator:a palette choice. That's it. I don't think it's universal. As much as I have strong feelings about pairings, I can't sit here and suggest that what I or we think is a perfect pairing applies for everybody. That's very subjective.
Senator:Mean, chef's a good example. Right? It's very subjective. Chef drinks more tequila and mezcal than anybody in this room. So the number of cigars that you would seek to pair with a tequila or mezcal will definitely always be greater than the number that we would, the rest of us in the room.
Senator:And I think the same is true for rum and for scotch. I think like some people when they have a spirit for their palate, a rum is just categorically almost 90 plus percent of the time too sweet. Yeah. They need some peat, something to counterbalance the sweetness in a whiskey or a rum. And so for their palate, I think, like, that's where they need that.
Senator:And the heat. They pursue that heat. That too.
Gizmo:Yeah. So the other thing that's leading me to senator's conclusion here on this this high proof spirit is don't forget, we did that barrel seagrass, which I think, you know, senator wasn't here for that episode. I think it was approaching 60%.
Bam Bam:It was delicious.
Gizmo:It was phenomenal. Delicious. Chef, what cigar did we do with that?
Chef Ricky:That was the Davodolf Puro de Minicano.
Gizmo:Ah. And it was definitely the star of the show
Bam Bam:Correct.
Gizmo:At that that night. But we were drinking them out of the Glencairn at the urge of our listenership saying, you know, try some higher proof stuff, and we loved it. So it lends me to Senator's conclusion that it's palate dependent. Yeah. It's subjective.
Bam Bam:But I still, for me, I would not pair that with a Cuban cigar. That's me.
Gizmo:I agree with you on that. I mean, I'm not gonna bring a pairing in of Cuban and a full proof whiskey,
Bam Bam:but That's correct.
Gizmo:I think for a lot of the cigars that we're smoking outside of Honduran and Cuban
Bam Bam:They do great with that.
Gizmo:I think we're moving in the direction that Like for that cigar, I don't know if it necessarily overpowered it. It certainly was the star of the show though, from From a flavor
Chef Ricky:what I remember with that spirit, it was very flavorful, and it brought a lot of what the cigar was lacking. I wish we had Correct. That tonight.
Gizmo:Yeah. So you said you were disconnected from the experience tonight. So can you explain that? Like, are you just kind of
Chef Ricky:Yeah. I'm I'm I'm sitting here trying to grab onto something. I feel like I wanna partake in in in the conversation, and I don't have a whole lot to offer because the cigar is not giving me anything. Right? And this is a lot easier to do when, you know, your your palate, your your mind is just grabbing onto an amazing experience or one that's so awful that you could just and this is just kind of teeter tottering in the middle, for me where it's almost I'm not getting anything.
Chef Ricky:You know? It's not
Bam Bam:You are here to entertain.
Gizmo:Yeah.
Chef Ricky:You know, so I and this is my first time with this cigar, so I have nothing to compare it to.
Bam Bam:Regardless of the situation.
Chef Ricky:Ben, you provide enough attention
Gizmo:for a lot of noise. You are definitely one to talk.
Bam Bam:That's what we're doing.
Senator:I I will just say on this cigar, I'm now, like, again hitting a moment of joy. Yeah,
Gizmo:man. I'm so envious, dude.
Senator:The draw is great. Yeah. I'm getting smoke output. Oh, sweet. The sweetness has, popped back up.
Senator:Like, this is the problem. It's just the inconsistency in the experience.
Gizmo:That's
Senator:correct. Mean, fact that in the same third of the cigar, when I started the final third, I started to get more sweetness, tremendous smoke output, and I was really happy. That lasted about five minutes. Then I went right back to getting a dry, earthy experience, little sweetness at all. And now all of a sudden, another ten, fifteen minutes later, I'm starting to get more sweetness.
Senator:So it's just too inconsistent. You know, if I could be having the experience I'm having right now all the way through the cigar, even for two thirds of the cigar, you know, I would leave a fairly satisfied customer, but it's too fleeting. That's the problem.
Bam Bam:And it's unusual. For me, the sweetness is like a very mild molasses, kind of like a raisin molasses type thing that I'm getting. And it's enjoyable.
Gizmo:For me right now, the flavor is very muddled. I have great draw. I have great smoke output. The cigar has been burning well for me, but it's mediocrity. Again, I'm gonna use that word.
Gizmo:I I just don't think that this is anywhere close to an elegant or classy Cuban
Bam Bam:wide open?
Gizmo:No. Okay. There's a touch bit of resistance, like a proper amount
Bam Bam:Got it.
Gizmo:For what I'd expect out of this.
Rooster:Okay. Mine's pretty resistant as well, But I'm just thinking about the price point of the cigar now, it's almost $28.30 dollars for a cigar.
Gizmo:And that's fresh, by way. That's not with six and a half years.
Rooster:Right. So this is closer to $40 maybe. But to have this experience with that much age, it's not acceptable. You know? Like, something is it's off with this cigar.
Gizmo:So one more comment here on FOH. I'm reading this thread. Lizard Enrique said it was a world class interview with Ernesto. Great job, lads. So we got a lot of great comments just saying how awesome Ernesto was.
Gizmo:You know, everybody loved that interview. I love that interview. I I think it's one of the best things we've done. So if you haven't listened to our conversation with Ernesto Perez Carrillo on episode two hundred thirty seven three weeks ago from tonight, please check it out because he was a world of information. So it's been it's been nice hearing that feedback.
Gizmo:And and also, I think for me. Learning a little bit more going a little bit deeper with EPC than what I've seen elsewhere on the Internet or in other interviews. I think it it it was a real personality discovery for me of who EPC was, and he was fascinating to me. So so check it out.
Senator:Yeah. I agree. I mean, I think, you know, a guy that's been in this business as long as he has I don't know that many people have gotten, like, beneath the surface
Gizmo:with him. That's well said. That's what I was trying to I was trying to get to that. Yeah. That's well said.
Senator:That's what I found so cool. You know? He he's a very serious guy. This is a guy who this is his life's passion. I mean, he's devoted more of his life to this than the vast majority of people in this business.
Gizmo:And and let's be specific to tobacco blending. Yeah. He's not a farmer. He doesn't own farms. He doesn't have crazy tobacco acreage.
Gizmo:He's just a blender and manufacturer. That's what he is. And I don't use the word just as to minimize it, but to like you're saying, that's what he's focused on for fifty six years.
Senator:Yeah. Totally. And I think, you know, because of that, when you see interviews with him, and if you even get to chat with him briefly, you know, he's just a very serious guy because this is so important to him. And I think we were able to kinda break beyond that and learn more about the person and his habits and hobbies and, like, the the the, you know, kinda quirks that we have as cigar smokers, I thought was really fun. And then just his wealth of knowledge.
Senator:I mean, there's few people that you sit down with for an hour and you feel like you have learned as much as you've spent, you know, a day with the person, and he's definitely in that category. So, you know, we love Ernesto and and I think just thoroughly enjoyed the time we got spend with him.
Bam Bam:You can sit with him and have a beer. He's so down to earth, very well spoken, really intelligent, and just a pleasure to be around.
Gizmo:And again, and we said this then, I'll say it again now, what I find fascinating about him is when you think about his peers who A lot of them are these big personalities. Carlito, you know, George Padron even. A lot of these folks are Rocky. Rocky. Yeah.
Gizmo:Big personalities. Ernesto's not that. All he cares about is tobacco. That's all he cares about.
Bam Bam:Yeah, I don't think he pursues that celebrity.
Gizmo:Yeah, he's not looking for the attention. He's looking to blend cigars. That's all he thinks about. That's all he, you know, that's his life. So to have, like you said, senator, kind of peel back the onion, dig a little deeper with him, it was a lot of fun.
Gizmo:And then when we turned the mics off walking around PCA with him, it was a blast. It was fun. I think I agree with you. You definitely could
Bam Bam:No doubt about it.
Gizmo:Yeah. Definitely could have some Oh, yeah. Alright, boys. Let's go to some listener email now. We have some Cuban focused ones.
Gizmo:I'm a little behind on emails, so forgive me listeners. Keep them coming, but I will catch up. I promise you that. We're gonna record a bunch of episodes over the next couple weeks, so please keep them coming. Let's start with this one from our friend Lizard John in Cleveland who wants you to stop saying old boy.
Gizmo:He says, good evening, Lizards. My buddy Zane gave me a small sampler a few weeks back, all Cubans with one unnamed cigar of unknown origin. I'll preface this by saying I'm a non Cuban skeptic, but I've really wanted someone to provide me evidence that someone can make a non Cuban that holds a candle to its Cuban brethren, and I just haven't witnessed it yet. I smoked the Imperialis, the Epicure number two, and the Sancho Panza non plus he gave me all were good or very good. The unmarked cigar Zane sent me was the best cigar I've had in 2026.
Gizmo:It's literally flawless. The construction is perfect, and I was convinced that it was a Cohiba. I had no earthly idea what it was. Turns out, it's an aged Porro Desnuto Queen Corona from Fabrica. There we go.
Gizmo:Literally
Senator:everything you've been saying up until that point, I'm like, Fabrica five.
Gizmo:Exactly. Exactly. I immediately ordered two bundles. I stand corrected, gentlemen. I stand corrected.
Gizmo:Prez and Hamlet, I tip my cap to you on these. I might miss ordering PSP Cubans from you on FOH. Of course, PSP was the ones that come with the red stickers. But if you're gonna make cigars like this, I will learn to adapt Wizard John in Cleveland.
Bam Bam:That's a good revelation, old boy. So
Gizmo:what's what's the what's the amount of money, by the way, for you to stop saying old boy if Wizard John could come up with
Bam Bam:I'll have to think about it.
Senator:Something tells me Rooster's gonna be the highest bidder.
Bam Bam:The anonymous bidder.
Rooster:He should really try the Bon Roberts. I mean, the Dahlias.
Senator:He would love that.
Rooster:Phenomenos, the Dahlias, the one o nines. I mean, those are
Gizmo:Since we recorded last week, we did the Bonn Roberts. And I mean, it was unbelievable in the room here under the microscope. I've smoked four or five since then.
Bam Bam:Yeah. All excellent. Me too.
Gizmo:I'm smoking them like every day, dude. They're all excellent. It's crazy how good they are. And I know we sound like like
Bam Bam:I know.
Gizmo:We're like homers here, you know? But it's like, oh my gosh, I can't get enough of them.
Rooster:Yeah. It's the closest thing to a Cuban cigar. Agreed. The blend is almost Cubanesque. I mean, it's just, you know, like if you could have that cigar, you don't miss a
Bam Bam:Cuban cigar. Stands on its own as a
Gizmo:It does.
Bam Bam:Yeah, it really does. It just happens to have a lot of those notes that we capture in a Cuban cigar.
Rooster:It just fills that void. If you cannot get Cuban cigars, I mean, that's the closest thing there is.
Bam Bam:Yeah, that's awesome.
Rooster:Without the inconsistency of draw issues or anything else, mean, these flawless. I haven't had a single bad one yet.
Chef Ricky:The Bon Roberts phenomenals got me through the nightmarish first half of that Nick Spurs game.
Gizmo:Which one? They were all kinda nightmarish.
Bam Bam:Yeah. They have been to the before.
Chef Ricky:Yeah. Game four.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. Let's go to another one now. We're gonna go now to wizard Chris. He says, hey, Giz. I wanted to send out a voice memo since I know you so rarely get them.
Gizmo:They're coming in more, but I want more voice memos. We love voice memos. Boys, can you agree with me here on this?
Chef Ricky:Yes. No. Yeah.
Senator:Especially when they're directed at them.
Rooster:Correct.
Bam Bam:I said no. Said no.
Gizmo:I'm really loving the group's impressions of PCA, and I hope Vegas isn't too much of a disappoint disappointment next year compared to the past in New Orleans. Again, thanks for all you do. You guys put a smile on my face even when little else does. So here's a voice memo from our friend, Lizard Chris.
Rooster:Hey, Lizards. This is Lizard Chris, also Lizard n y Guido from f o h. Figured I'd send you guys a voice message since I know you love them so much. Out here walking my dog in queens on a gorgeous day. But, anyway, just relistened to your review of the twenty twenty five Davenox chefs and smoked another one from the box that I bought when they came out.
Rooster:I gotta tell you guys, this thing has not gotten better. If anything, I think that the age has just highlighted that what you were all experiencing, especially with the last third of that cigar, is something wrong with the blend. It doesn't seem like it was a humidity issue or a moisture issue or anything like that. It's just something really off with this blend. And that kinda leads me to to one of my questions, and I'll send it out about the other.
Chef Ricky:But
Bam Bam:I hear the ice cream.
Chef Ricky:Ice cream trucks. That's mister softy, baby. New York, baby.
Rooster:I ask because I smoked a lot of the Millennium Robusto, and lately, they just don't taste right. Gong is the cream and the cappuccino, and it feels a lot more corojo forward, a lot more dense and bitter in a way that I'm not really expecting for the dab it off. The Grand Cru number three, I know Rooster loves that cigar. Still tastes great, but he had some of the newer Grand Cru's not really what I'm super into. And I'm really interested to see what you guys think of the Puro Dominicano in Corona Larga because I certainly have views on that as well.
Rooster:But my other question, and sorry for the long voice mail, is with the prices of Cuban cigars and the wonderful new world cigars you have discovered, I'm wondering two things. How often are you guys actually reaching for the Cubans in your collection? And the second is, at what point would you be willing to cash in on the Cubans that you have, selling them on Bond Roberts for what lately feel like incredibly hyped up prices And
Gizmo:Bam.
Rooster:Shifting to just buying a bunch of fabric of five and bond Roberts in the new worlds that you like and letting them sit aging in your humidor. I'm really thinking about this myself since you got a trinity Robusto, a spatagorda. Let those things sit for eight, nine months. They're delicious. So, anyway, just wonder what your thoughts are.
Rooster:Figured I'd call in. Really love the podcast. Just feels like being with a bunch of friends and something I look forward to absolutely every week. And, you know, long live Lizard Nation. Thanks, guys.
Gizmo:Love it. So thanks to Lizard Chris for that awesome Yeah. Great voice Yeah.
Senator:Very good.
Gizmo:So let's start with the Davidoff piece. So he said he had a chef's edition, the recent one, and it's actually kind of been highlighted with time how not great the blend is.
Bam Bam:And bitter.
Gizmo:In his experience, and bitter. Then he was saying he purchased Millennium Robustos.
Bam Bam:And not like in the other.
Gizmo:The sister to your Pyramid. Pyramid that you love so much, finding those to be off. So, you know, obviously with our review of the Puerto Dominicano recently, it kinda continues to compound this idea that Davidoff is kinda off right now.
Bam Bam:I haven't had a fresh millennium in a very long time. I still have a bunch that I smoke from. Those are delicious. I don't know what the new ones are like. But I think he's wrong regarding the Grand Cru.
Bam Bam:For me, the Grand Cru for me, I've only had the number two and the Robusto. There's a Robusto number two or three. They are a revelation for me. I have never given that cigar any credit because I I felt they were always a little too mild, and I didn't know. I was ignorant to it, and I have huge respect for that vertical, that really specific vertical in their catalog.
Gizmo:You know, I want to say something, by the way. Yeah. So we're doing the grand crew number five coming up on a short smoke special alongside those Majestics from H. Upman.
Bam Bam:Okay.
Gizmo:You know what's crazy? No. The grand crew number three and some of the others in that line have been discontinued.
Rooster:What? Much to my dismay. Yeah. He was the Grand Cru number three.
Gizmo:Rooster was depressed. He and I were going back and forth. He's like, you gotta get the three. You gotta get the three. Discontinued.
Bam Bam:Happy to pursue the number two. If the three's gone, I'm I'm I'm buying the number two. Those are just exquisitely creamy and very it's almost cappuccino like in its experience. Just slight sweetness. It's fantastic.
Rooster:It's one of the best morning cigars
Bam Bam:you Incredible. Can
Gizmo:Incredible. So I ordered the five, by the way. So these came in, and they're little diminutive things. Short smoke special. Yep.
Gizmo:$16.50 apiece, and they're about as big as
Bam Bam:That's outrageous.
Gizmo:Disgraceful. It is. It's like, I mean, they are tiny men.
Senator:This is what kills me. Like, you know, the one Davidoff I really, really, really fell in love with as like a morning afternoon cigar was that I think it's like the signature number two Lancero. Signature number one? Or sorry, maybe number It was a limited edition cigar. It came in those 10 count boxes.
Gizmo:Mhmm.
Senator:That cigar was spectacular. Once it had basically sold out everywhere you can buy a cigar online Sure. You know, I was looking at the regular signature line trying to replicate some of that experience, but the price point
Bam Bam:is outrageous.
Gizmo:It's absurd. It's crazy. And I've had that.
Bam Bam:It's not anything like the signature two.
Gizmo:You're talking like a half corona, the number five, the grand crew number five half corona, sixteen fifty. It's Crazy.
Rooster:Three and
Bam Bam:a half inches.
Gizmo:It's three and a half, four inches long.
Chef Ricky:Crazy. I
Gizmo:I don't understand how you put that price point on
Bam Bam:Yeah.
Gizmo:At retail.
Rooster:That's an $8 cigar.
Gizmo:Exactly right.
Bam Bam:And when did we do the chef that 2025?
Gizmo:Six months ago, eight Do months remember
Bam Bam:how extraordinarily depressing that
Gizmo:cigar I think that episode was like
Bam Bam:I mean
Gizmo:Like, we turned the energy down because the cigar just was so I don't know how you got because we came into that really
Bam Bam:Very excited.
Rooster:Exactly.
Bam Bam:I I my emotions just dropped, and I didn't know what to say. It was just an awful experience for such an expensive, extraordinarily priced cigar.
Rooster:Yeah. Something is definitely going on at Davidoff.
Gizmo:Yeah. I By the way, and next week, we're gonna talk about Davidoff. On the thread on FOH with the episode, there were like 30 replies of folks responding to our Davidoff commentary on the poor Dominicano and other Davidoff things. So to your point, a lot of folks are feeling it.
Rooster:And I agree with Lizard Chris, what he's saying about the Millennium Robusta, because I, too, just recently, a few months back, got a box of the Millennium Robustos. And they're not smoking like what the Millennium line that I'm used to, like what they should be like or what the flavor notes are. Millennium was one of my favorite blends from Davidoff, and it was such a staple.
Bam Bam:I'm a little nervous about buying a new Millennium Pyramid.
Gizmo:Think about it, you've been smoking them what, twenty something years?
Bam Bam:Long time.
Gizmo:Twenty one, twenty two years
Bam Bam:since your
Gizmo:son was born?
Bam Bam:And they've always been extraordinarily consistent for many, many, many years.
Rooster:Yeah. Used to love the petite coronas, the pyramids, the entire line. Was it the Lancera?
Senator:That was newer that they came out with, but the Millennium Lancera was also delicious.
Bam Bam:Great stuff.
Gizmo:That was limited edition too.
Bam Bam:I think so.
Gizmo:Millennium Lancera.
Rooster:So what I don't understand is, did I mean, the blend is what the blend is, right? I mean, it's written in stone what the blend of
Senator:Yeah, but the tobacco is the Every year the tobacco is different, so they have to adjust the blend based on the growing conditions each year.
Bam Bam:And we don't know who the blender is.
Gizmo:Could be
Senator:some some problem. That's it's
Bam Bam:taking cost elevated the janitor to do it for fuck's sake.
Senator:No. I mean, I just wanna be I think this is very instructive for the listener. That's the magic of a blender. The the first difficult challenge is coming up with the recipe, but the problem is every year the tobacco's different, so the recipe actually The blend. Has to change to account for that.
Senator:And that's why you need an incredibly skilled blender that is able to get creative and find what you have to dial up, what you have to dial down, what you maybe even have to replace
Gizmo:Yeah.
Senator:To keep that blend flavor profile consistent, and that's the magic, and that's not what's happening
Bam Bam:right now. Learned that from Ernesto. I believe if I remember correctly, we had this specific conversation, and now
Gizmo:how About tobacco changing and
Bam Bam:iterating sourcing and testing, and I find, he's right, Senator's totally right, someone like Ernesto, you need someone like that in your organization. You need someone like that.
Gizmo:And again, we're gonna continue this next week.
Bam Bam:And how rare is it to find someone that's a master blender like you?
Gizmo:What I can't believe is that Davidoff can't find someone in the Dominican Republic who is that person. You're telling me they can't find that person? His last question here, and I'm you were pointing at Rooster as we were listening to his voice memo. How often are you guys reaching for Cupid cigars, and have you thought about selling or keeping?
Bam Bam:Rooster has.
Gizmo:You were saying before we hit record tonight what you were thinking, Rooster.
Rooster:Yeah. I mean, the way the Fabrica five and the Bon Robert cigars are smoking, like, why, you know, why keep the whole collection of Cuban cigars? I'm not reaching for them, you know, maybe one every two weeks, if that. You know? So what are you gonna do with them?
Rooster:I mean, especially the prices, what, you know, what you can get for them.
Bam Bam:Had a good payday a couple months, man. It works.
Gizmo:I mean, I I yesterday, you know, so we were lucky we sat down with Puba. It was his birthday, and he was at the club here. It was great to see him. And I actually reached for a Schwa Supreme, and then I had a Ras. So I actually had two or three Cubans last night, and they were excellent.
Gizmo:But I was like thinking, like this was the first time I've had two or three Cubans in a sit. Yeah,
Bam Bam:Correct.
Gizmo:I can't tell you how long.
Bam Bam:Very long time.
Gizmo:And then I reached for what I was going to bring today to spoke after the podcast, and I didn't even think about Cubans.
Rooster:Yeah. I I had the Saint Louis Rey, the Reggios. I think it was a 2016 box. It's a phenomenal cigar, but for what they're going for
Gizmo:Is it that phenomenal?
Rooster:Yeah, exactly. I mean, I could sell those and get a 50 cab of the dahlias. I would be ecstatic. I mean, I would be so happy to have that.
Bam Bam:I I don't see myself selling the Cuban collection, and there you guys are younger than me by twenty years. You're gonna you're gonna keep your Oh, boy. Alright. You're gonna and I think it's a great experiment.
Senator:And we're gonna inherit yours.
Gizmo:Exactly right. Possibly. By the way, have you put the wheel together?
Bam Bam:If you're good. Just see what the It's a great experiment. Hold onto them for a very long time and just sample them. That's what I'll do as long as I can and see how they're evolving. It's just an interesting experiment.
Bam Bam:I'm not going to sell what I've purchased. Me, doesn't make sense.
Chef Ricky:Am I really twenty years younger than you? I'm not twenty years younger than you.
Gizmo:You're like 15. Yeah. About 15. Senator's about 20.
Chef Ricky:I'm 45. How
Senator:old Correct. Yeah.
Gizmo:You guys are I'm a
Rooster:little older than you, but
Senator:Oh, by a few years.
Bam Bam:You guys are exactly twenty years By
Senator:three years.
Bam Bam:You're about eighteen years younger than me, I think.
Chef Ricky:Wow. You look great, man.
Bam Bam:I know I age well. That's correct.
Gizmo:Senator, what about you?
Senator:Can his head still fit this room?
Gizmo:No. It never has and it never will.
Senator:That is not true. So for me, this is a really, really great question because I have been the staunchest opponent of selling cigars. In fact, to the point that in my entire life, the only cigars I have ever sold I know the box. Was an R and J Churchill
Rooster:Yeah.
Senator:That Giz and I were both really frustrated with. We split. Giz moved them.
Bam Bam:Yep. And that's it. No. You got you both sold your what is that double corona? I can't
Gizmo:Oh, the Hoyos.
Bam Bam:Hoyos, yes.
Gizmo:We did sell the Hoyos.
Bam Bam:You guys sold the Hoyos.
Senator:Okay. That was like a handful,
Gizmo:I guess. Yeah, and they weren't you know, it was just they were okay.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Whatever.
Senator:So twice ever. Mhmm. And not to like profit or anything, just we hated them. There were other people that may like them. Correct.
Senator:And that's why we moved them. You know, I also am not like a big proponent of like, I'm gonna save, you know, these cigars for these they're meant to be smoked, and so at the right time when I wanna pull for them, I'm not gonna be shy about doing it. But what I will say, at this point, the volume of new worlds that we have discovered,
Gizmo:I'm It's obscene, dude. It's obscene. I'm
Senator:not craving Cuban cigars often at all. I probably pull for a Cuban cigar once a month.
Gizmo:Because of that I'd like to say, by the way, that comment, you have been pushing back on me saying that for quite some time about like, I'm not thinking about it, reaching for it. You've been still reaching, but
Senator:I think it has waned for you. It has, but my problem, what I was pushing back on more, was you saying, you know, well, the price of what things are now, and you're kinda keeping them. And for me, it's like, well, we paid what we paid for them, so we're not paying the current market price. Smoke them. What I will say where I've started to actually really kinda reconsider my thinking on this, There are certain Cuban cigars that I will always have a tremendous amount of nostalgia around.
Senator:Partagas as an entire brand is one of
Gizmo:them. Yep.
Senator:I will not sell anything Partagas that I have in my collection. I will smoke those. They're all tied to like very distinct memories. They're they're sentimental for me. There are other Cuban cigars that I don't have any emotional attachment to whatsoever.
Senator:They just, at the time, were the best I could find to smoke for the flavor profile I was seeking. But now fast forward all these years later, I have found we have found plenty of new worlds that scratch the same itch. I don't need some of those Cuban cigars to get that flavor profile and that experience that I was seeking at that time and still am. So I've, for the first time, started considering. No kidding.
Senator:There's not much point in keeping some of the stuff I have that has been replaced that I don't need anymore to get that experience. So it's just I've literally, you know, just within the past year, started thinking about this, and I'm terrible about I'm not on any of these sites that you even sell cigars on, so this
Bam Bam:just gonna
Senator:be a gizmo conversation.
Bam Bam:It's By the way, he's my he's my personal broker.
Chef Ricky:We know that.
Bam Bam:All the sales go through me.
Senator:No. But I mean, very seriously, I'm gonna start thinking about what I probably ought to just part with because Yeah. Wow. I'm not craving it. I don't need
Gizmo:But also, to I'm kinda concerned about stuff aging out. That too. Past their peak. I letting them
Chef Ricky:Like what we're spoken today.
Senator:Well, it's like
Gizmo:Well, this was past its peak the day it was rolled.
Senator:But it's like even to that, it's like at the rate that we're even reaching for it, we know it's going to, at a point, be well past its peak.
Gizmo:Yeah.
Senator:And so I'd rather move it to someone who actually is gonna smoke it now while it's Yeah. Than I'm gonna smoke a handful of them a year, and by the time I'm through that box, like, they're gonna be nowhere near what they once were. So for those reasons, like, there are several boxes I think about in my collection that I may as well move to someone who's gonna just smoke through them now while they're great than me just have a few a year and they're just gonna peter out.
Rooster:But you know what? Even if they are beyond their peak, they will still hold their value. Yeah. You will still get That's true. Know?
Gizmo:Peak Let's be honest, though. Peak, though, is, again, going back to our conversation about high proof spirits, peak is palate dependent.
Bam Bam:That's also
Gizmo:Folks have different preferences on these cigars. Someone likes a twenty, thirty year old cigar, or as Min Ron Nee talked about, the different stages of maturation, you know, going That's through a real thing. It's a real thing. So, you know, who knows where they may be in another ten years. The question is, though, are, a, are we willing to be patient with it?
Gizmo:Is the current market value, you know, compared to it sitting in the tower and smoking them five or ten years from now, what does that look like, in your calculation? And it's like, I'm with Senator. I'm thinking the same way.
Bam Bam:I don't know, guys.
Gizmo:I'm thinking the same way.
Rooster:Just that I'm not replacing them. No.
Gizmo:You're not. No.
Rooster:I'm not buying new boxes of Cuban cigars. Like, when I look at the prices on Bond Roberts, box of d four going with some age going for, like, touching almost a thousand dollars. Crazy.
Gizmo:I'm like, why?
Rooster:Why would I do that?
Gizmo:$40 cigar.
Senator:Yeah. I'm saying for me, take price out of the equation.
Gizmo:I'm I'm with you on that, how
Senator:I'm with you. Because, like, my disagreement with anybody in the group has always been around like, well, they cost this much, so I shouldn't smoke them. I'm smoking less because of the price. We bought them at what we bought them at, we should smoke them. And if we really love them that much, then just pay it, but smoke fewer of them.
Senator:But my thing is, there are several boxes of Cuban cigars that I have that I don't need to enjoy that flavor profile anymore. I have alternatives that provide just as much, if not more satisfaction. So I'm just like, why am I letting these sit here when I'm not pulling for them?
Gizmo:I agree with you.
Bam Bam:I'm surprised at both of you. Just a a little bit. I happen to still From
Gizmo:the guy who sold a box of Fundies for almost $3,000.
Bam Bam:I know, but it was only one box.
Rooster:Wait. You did that?
Bam Bam:It's only one box. I I still happen to like reaching for the occasional Cuban. No.
Gizmo:But we're talking about the boxes that we're not even reaching for in those Even those boxes. He's not talking about d fours or EBFs not or talking about the aged stuff.
Bam Bam:I totally get it.
Gizmo:It's like special occasions.
Senator:See, but even no. But even some regular production stuff, like, I used to be obsessed with a BBF. Yeah. Do I need a BBF to get that profile anymore? I don't, if I'm being honest.
Gizmo:The answer is no.
Senator:Wow. Like, even, you know, Monty twos, I don't have, like, an emotional attachment to a Monty two like I do a d four. There are many cigars that, like, we have reviewed where we're like, oh, I'm getting a Monty like note or flavor profile. I don't need a Monty two to get like a Coco Bomb with some salt. Like, there are several other cigars that we have found that in.
Senator:So even like standard production stuff that's not a special occasion stick Yeah. That I just don't need to pull for anymore because I have so many other options now that are, like, perfectly hitting my palate at such an affordable price. It just what's the purpose of keeping them?
Bam Bam:You know, for me, because I don't get to see everything I have, I only have one tower and it's a small one.
Gizmo:If I had a bigger I wish I had a violin clip here.
Bam Bam:I'm just saying.
Senator:I have so many. I just can't even see
Bam Bam:them They're they're buried. I don't know how to be humble. I'm trying to be humble. But I'm just saying, if I could visually see everything that I had as far as my Cuban collection is concerned, I would be sampling from almost every box occasionally.
Senator:You did send us a spreadsheet. It's true. Let's not update it. I like that. Something tells me you haven't purchased more Cuban cigars
Bam Bam:since I haven't.
Senator:Well, I haven't. So it's updated.
Bam Bam:So I interject. I like to interject a Cuban from time to time. I'm gonna continue to do that. I'm not gonna sell what I have because I like just the variety from time to time, and it does give you a little bit of a spin off in flavor that you don't get, Honestly, it's almost we say these cigars are very Cuban like. It's almost Cuban like.
Bam Bam:There's just something special if you get the right Cuban that's unlike anything else.
Senator:I mean, I'm sorry. There are several cigars that we have reviewed in the past year or two
Bam Bam:Oh, I know.
Senator:That if they were unbanded Yeah. I would not just say they are Cuban like. A
Gizmo:100%. Yeah.
Senator:You would smoke that cigar, and you would if you had to blind tell us what that cigar is, you'd say it's a Cuban. Choose the marca.
Bam Bam:Yep. I don't disagree.
Senator:That's how similar.
Bam Bam:I don't disagree.
Senator:There are fabric of five cigars. Like, if someone handed me this cigar and said, here's a Cuban cigar, I would smoke that, and I would in no way shape or form question if that's actually a Cuban cigar.
Bam Bam:Yeah. It's an interesting question.
Senator:Like that dahlia we did, I mean, I would absolutely believe that's a Cuban cigar if someone handed it to me and told me that.
Rooster:And there's an easy fix for your solution, Ben.
Bam Bam:Uh-huh.
Rooster:So you say you can't see those boxes that are in the Tupperware. Why don't you use some of the proceeds from the Fundy box or from
Gizmo:the special
Rooster:dinner that you were going to take us to and buy another tower?
Bam Bam:Well, mushroom steak is waiting.
Rooster:It's gonna be nicely aged.
Gizmo:Little patina.
Senator:His and I are gonna be BAM's age. The day that
Chef Ricky:he takes us out to that dinner. Correct.
Bam Bam:I'll be walking into Cain.
Gizmo:Alright. So we're gonna continue this conversation next week. We have a lot of emails to get to. We're gonna talk about Davidoff and and what's going on there. I put up a thread on FOH.
Gizmo:I would love for folks to comment on about, you know, heavy rotation Cuban cigars that have been replaced. So I wanna talk to you guys about that. So we're gonna continue this conversation next week. So thanks to Lizard Chris for prompting this discussion. And now, boys, it is time for us to go to our lizard of the week presented by our friends at Bon Roberts.
Gizmo:If you heard our episode last week doing the dahlia, we've been talking about it tonight. It's you can't beat Bon Roberts, man.
Bam Bam:No.
Gizmo:I mean, it's it's phenomenal cigars. I got a 50 cab of those those dahlia. I I I can't get enough of them.
Bam Bam:To be giving those away, it is quite the gift.
Gizmo:Pretty amazing. Oh, such a home run. Our lizard of the week this week, Bam, is Lizard Steve, and he's coming for you. Stevie boy. He says, Petition for a coastal exemption.
Gizmo:What? Dear Bam, as a member of the Gulf Coast Lizards, I'd like to respectfully appeal the no shorts, no flip flops ruling.
Bam Bam:Oh, here we
Gizmo:First, let me be clear.
Bam Bam:You'll never win this argument.
Gizmo:There are absolutely lounges where shorts and flip flops would be completely unacceptable. I understand the assignment, no debate. But cigar etiquette feels contextual. Place matters, culture matters, the room matters. Because on the Gulf Coast, shorts and sandals aren't automatically a sign that someone gave up.
Bam Bam:Oh, I beg to differ.
Gizmo:I love that line. Sometimes it just means they came from having a better day than you did, And that's my argument.
Bam Bam:Well done.
Gizmo:A coastal lounge isn't trying to be a downtown club or a Davidoff lounge. It's its own thing, which is why a guy can walk in wearing clean shorts, a proper shirt, leather sandals, sit down with a cigar and a drink, and look completely appropriate. Not underdressed, just correctly dressed for the latitude. Correct. Because if cigars are about slowing down and enjoying where you are, Bam
Rooster:Mhmm.
Gizmo:Then surely where you are deserves a vote. Respectfully, Lizard Steve and the Gulf Coast Lizards.
Bam Bam:Well, it sounds like this place that he frequents could have, like, a surf club next to it where they got surfboards, very sandy, little gritty, hardwood floors that are very aged and almost ultra patina ed, and they may be splintering a little bit. Okay. So the setting counts. So if you want to smoke in a barn-
Chef Ricky:If you're smoking on a fishing
Bam Bam:Then you can wear your flip flops.
Gizmo:Fine. So you're saying if Lizard Steve
Bam Bam:I guess the setting does matter.
Gizmo:Would you be opposed if you were in this lounge on the Gulf Coast
Bam Bam:With the surfboard in the sand?
Gizmo:And someone walked in wearing flip flops shorts and a polo or something like that.
Bam Bam:And the old pirate walking in with the eye patch? Are
Gizmo:you opposed to this? Are you okay with what Lizard Steve is presenting?
Bam Bam:I guess it really depends on the setting. So if I'm on vacation and it's a beach town, and it's ultra casual, then sure. I still won't wear flip flops. I'll wear sneakers. I still don't think a grown man should be among other men wearing flip flops.
Bam Bam:I just don't buy it. You can wear a really nice pair of sneakers in that place. And and keep your shorts as long as they're not cargo shorts. They should still be fitted. T shirt, hat, fine.
Rooster:You wear sneakers on the beach?
Bam Bam:I would wear sneakers if I'm gonna go have a cigar.
Senator:No. But To the beach.
Bam Bam:No. I wear flip flops on the beach. But if I'm going in the cigar club near the beach, I'm putting my sneakers on. I'm not going to walk in there with flip flops. It's the weird thing for me.
Chef Ricky:But you're fine smoking a cigar on the beach with flip flops.
Bam Bam:Yes. Because I'm on the beach. Sure. Alright. And I'm barefoot.
Gizmo:Makes sense. A lot of rules.
Bam Bam:I don't know. I don't think there's rules. I think when you're among adults, you will put a pair of shoes or sneakers on. That's it.
Gizmo:Yeah. Done. So congratulations to our friend Lizard Steve, challenging Bam on his fashion faux pas, and he just won himself a 10 count box of cigars
Bam Bam:Very nice.
Gizmo:From our friends at Bond Roberts. Can't beat it. We appreciate those guys and all their support. And anybody out there can win Lizard of the Week. All you have to do is send us an email like Lizard Steve did or a voice memo like Lizard Chris did.
Gizmo:Comment on FOH. Comment on Reddit. Whatever you choose, Instagram
Chef Ricky:And disagree with Bam.
Gizmo:Can win. Oh, if you disagree with Bam let me tell you something. That's a bonus. You wanna know a guaranteed wizard of the week? Send us a voice memo disagreeing with Bam.
Bam Bam:Of course.
Gizmo:Immediate lizard of the week. Correct. But, no, we appreciate everybody writing us, and we have a lot to get to. You know, I have so much here that I didn't get to tonight, and I apologize for that, but we will continue on next week. But, we are coming to the end of our evening tonight with the Vegas Robaina Unicos and the Havana Club Professional Edition, the b.
Gizmo:Yes. How are guys feeling about your pairing tonight? And don't forget to send me your ratings.
Bam Bam:I thought the pairing was nice.
Gizmo:I think for me and I think this has been obvious, so I'm not spoiling anything. I think the rum was certainly the star of the show tonight for me, and I think for most of us. But a couple of us had five minutes of greatness, so I'm curious how the ratings are going go here.
Bam Bam:Just sent you mine.
Chef Ricky:The rum is delicious. The pairing, I'm not it's not clicking for me because I'm not getting much out of the cigar. But I based on the profile of this rum, I agree with the room that we you could have this rum with anything that we smoke, from Cuban to New World to everything in between. It's it's a great pairing for anything. The cigar, we'll talk about.
Gizmo:Yeah. Alright, boys. It's time now to move into the formal liquor rating tonight on the Havana Club Professional Edition, Smoky and Rich. Bam Bam, you're up.
Bam Bam:I really enjoyed this. I like that slight departure from the traditional Havana club seven year. I felt I thought it was nicely balanced. I do as I noted earlier, I love that touch of heat. I'm still getting a lot of the notes that I get in that seven year Havana Club, a little bit of vanilla, a little bit of butterscotch, really easy to drink.
Bam Bam:Interesting. So I'm at a firm nine. I really, really like this bottle.
Chef Ricky:Alright, chef. I'm right there at a nine with BAM. I really enjoyed it. And as someone whose palate is sensitive to scotch still and and just kind of growing accustomed to it, for me, the scotch notes or or influence come through a bit more. So I I I have I have taken note of it, and it I do enjoy it.
Chef Ricky:And I think it's a good introduction into what that world could be like. I think it complements the rum well. They do a great job with it, and I'm very curious to taste the winner just to see how much more, you know, the peatiness is elevated and whatnot. Yeah.
Bam Bam:I'd love to try that as well.
Chef Ricky:Yeah. For me, this was a strong nine.
Gizmo:So for me, the run was a 10. I put it right there next to Havana Club. I don't think it's enough of a departure to say that it's any it's not differentiated enough from Havana Club seven for me, which is like the gold standard of, you know, regular drinking rum for me with cigars, which that's a good you know, certainly that rum is a 10 for me. So this was a 10 tonight. I mean, I know it's inaccessible.
Gizmo:I know it's a little bit of a, you know, different twist on the on on the finish, but I loved it. I really enjoyed the Savannah club tonight. I'd be interested to try the version that you're talking about senator, which has a little more Pete. Of course, reviewing this one we had in the room tonight, I don't think it's that different. So for me, it's a 10.
Gizmo:Senator?
Senator:I'm also at a nine. I think they did an awesome job of taking a product that we all love and doing something different that I do think differentiates it a bit from the traditional seven year. I think this is like a perfect gateway into rum for a whiskey drinker. It has a longer finish. It is more balanced.
Senator:It's not as overtly sweet as Havana seven or most traditional rums. It was really nicely balanced. I think the versatility of this that this can hold up with a full body cigar just as well as a medium bodied cigar, any of the stuff that we regularly smoke, I I really liked it. You know, the only reason I didn't give it the 10 is because for this trying to be a smoky, more scotch like experience, I don't think it went nearly far enough with the peat to deliver that.
Bam Bam:I totally agree with that.
Senator:Yeah. I mean, it does not check the box for me if I wanted a single MALT. This is not far enough to satisfy my I agree with
Gizmo:you on
Bam Bam:that If it's gonna say that it's doing that, it should do it. Right?
Senator:It fell short a little bit. That's why I gave it the nine. I'm rating it based on what their intent is, and I think they've done an extraordinary job Agreed. With the flavor profile, but I think that it falls short of delivering enough of a single malt scotch like experience to satisfy both my rum appreciation and my scotch appreciation.
Bam Bam:It falls short for what they're promising. Just a touch. But this, I'll speak for everyone, this I can drink all night long.
Senator:Oh, yeah.
Gizmo:It's interesting because my perspective on rating it like I did was the flavor and how it paired with the cigar.
Bam Bam:It's delicious.
Gizmo:But what I'm saying is I actually appreciate your perspective on the intention not being met in what they're saying on the bottle costing at a point. Mhmm. And I think that's a really interesting perspective.
Bam Bam:Did we talk about how much this was?
Gizmo:So he bought it for 60 or $70. Think like like Senator said
Senator:That's because it's the secondary. Yeah. Yeah.
Gizmo:Can buy this, you said, very similarly to normal
Senator:in a shop in any place that sells Cuban rum
Bam Bam:Mhmm.
Senator:For, like, $25.30 bucks. Nice.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. The former liquor rating tonight on the Havana Club, Edicien Professional b is a 9.3.
Bam Bam:Very nice.
Gizmo:Great score. That to the only other Havana club we've done on the pod, the regular seven year on episode 74 scored a 9.8.
Bam Bam:Who I wanna know who gave it a a nine or an eight.
Senator:Don't have that data. Absolutely, Whitman, whoever did.
Gizmo:I have
Senator:no gripes with that.
Gizmo:I think it's fine. I'm assuming it was a pagoda
Bam Bam:tour. That guaranteed it was pagoda.
Gizmo:We paired that with the Hoya de Monterrey Elegantes, by the way. I'm looking at the Lizard rating guide. Scored a 4.8.
Bam Bam:Thank God for the Havana brothers. Correct.
Gizmo:Worst That was one of the worst cigars we did all year.
Senator:I couldn't even smoke mine.
Gizmo:Yeah. It was terrible. Alright, boys. It's time now to go to the former lizard rating tonight on the Vegas Robaina Unicos from 2020. Rooster, you're up.
Rooster:So this cigar is I mean, how do I put it? I mean, I've I've had much better experience with this cigar, in the past. Like the box that I have, the earthy note is not the dominant note, which is on this cigar, and it's been throughout. It was a very one dimensional cigar for me. The last third actually did get a little bit better.
Rooster:That sweet note that we were looking for, it finally came through. But it's almost at the very end, and it's for a very short time. The cigar I mean, my cigar actually had some construction issues. The draw was a bit resistant. There was a lack of smoke output on the cigar.
Rooster:Again, like I said, the dominant note was still the earthiness, the mustiness. And when that is the overpowering note, the cigar is not enjoyable. So for that reason, I'm at a seven. Alright. Senator.
Senator:So I'm also at a seven, which would be a mild recommend. I think that I agree with a lot of Rooster's commentary. The only thing I don't agree with for me, this was not a one dimensional cigar. I got different defined flavor notes. It was just a, like, tremendously inconsistent experience.
Rooster:Like When I say one dimensional, I I mean kinda like the note. There was one dominating note that came throughout the cigar.
Senator:Or that's fair. I guess for your experience. Really
Rooster:a change
Senator:for me.
Chef Ricky:Yeah.
Senator:Because for me, it like teetered between like overly earthy to like more sweet than earthy and it kind of danced back and forth. So that's where I definitely got like more of a well rounded experience. You know, as far as the things that I liked, when the cigar was performing, I think closer to the way the blend was intended, when I was getting enough sweetness, more sweetness than earthiness, I thought like the flavor was actually very enjoyable. It was just too fleeting. Like, I wish that most of the cigar I would have gotten that.
Senator:I did not. That's why there was no chance this could score an eight, nine, or a 10 for me. The smoke output there in the last third, finally, I started to get, like, meaningful smoke output, but for two thirds of the cigar, I mean, there was barely any meaningful combustion, so that was frustrating. It is an ugly cigar. Like, there's no other way to put it.
Gizmo:Yeah.
Senator:I mean, you open that box, you look at the cigar, there are $5 cigars that look better than this. I think it's ridiculous that these couldn't be rolled better. I mean, a Vaguerros, a La Quinta out of Cuba look better than these cigars do. And those are like as budget friendly of cigars as Cuba puts out. So I don't understand why uniquely this is rolled in such like a careless way.
Senator:That definitely factors into my score. There's no excuse for that. I it's just a shame because the moments that I enjoyed this cigar could have been great if the blend were consistent in delivering that experience. So I'm at a soft recommend in that. There was no point in the cigar that I said to myself, I have to put this down.
Senator:I can't smoke this. I would never wanna try this. There were enough moments that I actually enjoyed it and just other moments that it was smokable, it was fine, but it was uninspiring, which is what precludes it from anything that we would strongly recommend. So I think if you like the Vegas Robaina brand, and I think most if not all of us do Yeah.
Gizmo:I think we'll enjoy what it was fifteen years ago. For sure.
Senator:I think it's worth trying into exactly that point Giz just made. This is a cigar that I don't think needs or benefits from any tremendous amount of age. I think smoking this within its first three years is probably as much as you need to really get what the blend was designed to deliver.
Gizmo:So with that being said, I'm at a six, and it's because I think the blend is mediocre. I think tonight's experience was disappointing. I don't want any lizards out there listening to this right now to go out and pursue this cigar over any other Cuban pyramid. I think we talked about this tonight, even including a Bella Coso, the BBF. This is at the bottom of the list right now.
Gizmo:I I think we did one that was a 21. We did the 20. I've had a couple, not many. There were newer production, mediocre. You know, I I I just don't think that this cigar is worth the tobacco that they're rolling in.
Gizmo:I think these wrappers look like rejects. It's almost like at the Uptman factory, they took wrappers that they rejected from putting on Uptman twos, and they put them on the Vegas Robaina Unicos that they put in this box that I bought. I I think it looks terrible, as senator said. You know, it was a mediocre experience. It was deflating tonight for smoking a Cuban cigar once every five weeks on this podcast.
Gizmo:I regret bringing this cigar in tonight. You know, I I hope they cancel the cigar. Cancel the cigar. That's a six for me. Okay.
Gizmo:Chef.
Chef Ricky:Yeah. This cigar for me was deflating, exhausting the smoke. Know, cutting the just cutting the cigar, I thought I was gonna break Bam's cutter because of how hard it was and how much pressure I needed to apply. When that was done It
Senator:storage could be issue like Brewster pointed out.
Bam Bam:Also correct.
Chef Ricky:Maybe, maybe, maybe too I
Gizmo:don't know when we talk about every cigar we love on this podcast stored the same way. We don't discuss that.
Chef Ricky:No. I mean, this cigar was yeah. I mean, it was it was rock hard on the tip. You know, I took I took some
Senator:This is a family friendly show. We have kids listening, chef.
Bam Bam:That's correct.
Chef Ricky:I took the perfect draw to it, drilled a couple holes in there. Literally, I felt like I was drilling holes into it. And, you know, I I I got some some sneak peeks of of sweet cream and and the little barnyard and mustiness, which I actually enjoy in cigars. But then that just all disappeared. And I, know, I feel the cigar got really hot because I was trying to generate smoke.
Chef Ricky:I was trying to generate flavor in all of my draws and the cigar just got bitter and I was powering through trying to see if it opened up as it got closer to that last third. It did slightly at that point. If if I were to pick a flavor, I'd say it was like salty sunflower seeds or some kind of salty nut, maybe a salty hazelnut, but it was too little too late for me. And then, you know, you just consider the appearance, the price point, the smoke output, the the task that it felt like to just even smoke the cigar tonight. I'm giving it a five.
Chef Ricky:I have no prior history with it. I have no prior good experience with it to counter that score. So I'm at a five.
Gizmo:Alright, Bam.
Bam Bam:Yowza. Well, the cigar for me, of course, was inconsistent, but I will say overall, I kind of enjoyed it. Kind of
Rooster:Sounds like a nine.
Gizmo:No. 10 incoming.
Bam Bam:My experience didn't mimic any of your experiences. Think Senator and I kind of had a similar experience. It was fairly positive.
Chef Ricky:I guarantee you and Senator don't have a similar score.
Gizmo:But
Bam Bam:extremely frustrating because That's not mine. It was only the final third that for me was the most delicious part of the cigar, and I've said this before. Like, I I actually don't wanna talk about any part of the cigar, only about the part that I like, and if I'm only talking about the final third, overall, that is not an overall good experience. So I am at a seven.
Gizmo:Same as center.
Bam Bam:Yeah. I'm at a seven, but honestly, that final third, I noted it earlier. I did get very light molasses and some raisin, and that was actually quite nice, But there just wasn't enough of it. That's why I'm at a seven. If I had that from the beginning, I'd be touching a nine on this thing easily.
Bam Bam:But it just didn't happen.
Senator:So see, he thought about the nine rooster.
Gizmo:Oh, He always does.
Bam Bam:I was hoping the whole thing would be the same.
Rooster:The last third was a nine though, right?
Bam Bam:I'd give the last third an eight, which is only about an inch and a half.
Rooster:That's when the sweetness kind of came
Bam Bam:Yeah, correct. The rest of it was kind of five, six, maybe seven. So it is what it is.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. The former lizard rating tonight on the Vegas, Romania, Unicos is a 6.4. Man. And to use Bam's words?
Bam Bam:It was PTSD.
Gizmo:So let's compare that to the other cigars we've
Bam Bam:done Wasn't
Gizmo:that bad. On the podcast from Vegas Robaina. We did the Unicos, same cigar as this from 2021. We did it on episode 38 in 2022, scored an 8.2. Then for Christmas or New Year's that year, one of the two, we did the Vegas Robaina Classico, scored a 9.9.
Gizmo:Pagoda giving that a nine, not a 10.
Bam Bam:What a colossal mistake that was.
Senator:He's out. Oh.
Gizmo:And the Vegas, Romania, Phamosos on episode one hundred and nineteen two years ago, scored an 8.8. So this at a 64 is certainly the lowest by far. So, boys, what a great night tonight. Of course, we have to thank all the Lizards who contribute to the show. We thank them every week.
Bam Bam:Thank you,
Gizmo:again tonight. Of course, Lizard Steve who won Lizard of the Week from Bond Roberts. We appreciate those guys, you know, sponsoring our Lizard of the Week segment, sending a 10 count box of cigars to all of our Lizards of the Week. And, again, you can win. All you have to do is contribute to the show.
Gizmo:Send us something. Contribute something, and I promise you, you will win lizard of the week at some point. Of course, boys, we have to thank Small Batch Cigar, the official retail partner of the Lounge Lizards podcast. All of us have been buying from Small Batch. Senator was teeing off about how much money he spent to Small Batch the other day.
Gizmo:I had a lizard tell us that he was ordering something for $460 between the code and the 5% back. He took a $100 off his order. Small batch is the best. So if you're a dedicated, you know, cigar spender at Small Batch, you like to buy a lot of cigars, you are rewarded for it. So check out smallbatchcigar.com.
Gizmo:Use our code lizard 15 for 15% off your entire order. And, of course, boys, our presenting sponsor, Fabrica five. I don't know how many times we mentioned them tonight, but I really wish we had a Fabrica five cigar in our hand.
Bam Bam:Correct.
Gizmo:Yeah. Not this Vegas Robaina.
Bam Bam:That's
Gizmo:correct. And I can't wait. I'm gonna smoke a dahlia when we're done here to try to bring the night back to me because this was a rough experience. But Fabrica five is making great cigars. Check out fabrica005.com.
Gizmo:Use our code lizard pod for 10% off. We appreciate those guys for being such huge supporters. One more time tonight, boys. The Havana Club seven years aged Edicien Profesional b scored a 9.3, and the Vegas Robaina Unicos in 2020 was a 6.4. What a great night, boys.
Bam Bam:Very good night.
Gizmo:Great conversation. Wish the cigar was a little better.
Bam Bam:Great booze.
Gizmo:Great booze. And, we'll see everybody next week. Hope you enjoyed this episode. Thanks for joining us. You can find our merch store and ratings archive at our brand new website, loungelizardspod.com.
Gizmo:That's loungelizardspod.com. Don't forget to leave us a rating and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. If you have any comments, questions, if you wanna reach out, say hello, tell us what you're smoking, email us. Hello at lounge lizards pod dot com. You can also find us on Instagram at lounge lizards pod.
Gizmo:We really appreciate your time, and we'll, we'll see you next week.