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This is the Podcast home of TC Jewfolk's Who The Folk?! Podcast. Hear from interesting Members of the Tribe from all over the Minneapolis and St. Paul area.
Lonny Goldsmith (00:05)
Welcome to this week's Who the Folk Podcast. I'm Lonny Goldsmith, the editor of TC Jew Folk. This week I talked to artist Peter Zelle in his home studio space in St. Paul. We talk about what his path to art looked like, when he started working with glass, and how he constructs the big glass sculptures that you'll see behind us on this week's Who the Folk podcast.
Lonny Goldsmith (00:27)
Peter Zelle, welcome to the Who the Folk Podcast. Thank you for joining me. Absolutely. thank you for having me here in your studio. your incredible
Peter (00:27)
Peter Zelle, welcome to the Who the Food Podcast. Thank you for joining me. Absolutely. thank you for having me here in your studio. you're incredible.
Lonny Goldsmith (00:35)
artwork here. glass is your medium of choice. How did you get started in art? so I took my first class. Okay. Okay.
Peter (00:36)
Glass is your medium. It is. It is. How did you get started in art? so I took my first like hand building class when I was fifteen at St. Catharines College. Okay. Yeah. And then started doing pottery
Peter (00:49)
in high school and with my two best friends and we were all like good at it. So that's what I did. How do you how do you decide out a medium? Because obviously in in the art world, are so many you can paint. There's obviously glass, there's clay, and other forms of sculpture. How did you
Lonny Goldsmith (00:52)
that how did you how do you decide on a medium? 'Cause obviously in in the art world, yeah, there are so many UK. There's obviously glass, there is clay, and other forms of sculpture. How did you
Lonny Goldsmith (01:06)
how did you pick? Because there is so much you can do. Yeah, so I I my my ceramics brought me to art school
Peter (01:07)
There's so much you can do. Yeah, so I I my my ceramics brought me to art school. So at Rhode Island School of Design, they have a freshman
Peter (01:16)
foundation which allows you to try everything.
Peter (01:18)
You do two-dimensional design, three-dimensional design, and life drawing. I knew I couldn't draw. I didn't know what graphic design meant, honestly. And I knew I was more three-dimensional. So I did.
Lonny Goldsmith (01:21)
Okay. I didn't know what graphic design meant, honestly. Yeah. I knew it was more three dimensional because I did it
Peter (01:29)
Ceramics in high school, I thought I'd glass or sculpture. I didn't get into glass
Lonny Goldsmith (01:29)
for high school, I thought I'd do glass or something. Okay.
Peter (01:33)
sort of freshman winter session, so I just majored in it. And that was that was it for me. But it works for my
Lonny Goldsmith (01:36)
Okay. But it works for fine.
Peter (01:40)
sort of aesthetic and my desires to work with color and work with light and work three dimensionally.
Lonny Goldsmith (01:46)
so one of the things that you write about on your website is that your your namesake is is your great-great uncle, who's also an artist.
Peter (01:46)
So one of the things that you write about on your website is that your your namesake is is your great great uncle, who is also an artist.
Peter (01:55)
Yeah.
Lonny Goldsmith (01:55)
what kind of example did he set for you when you said to him, Hey, I think this is kind of what I want to do? How did he how did he help guide?
Peter (01:55)
example did he set said to him, Hey, I think this is kind of what I want to do. How can help God?
Lonny Goldsmith (02:03)
Peter Krasnow was my dad's great-great uncle. I was fortunate still working in the nineties. Wow Los Angeles. Okay. Very very modest lifestyle surrounded by his work.
Peter (02:03)
Peter Krasnell was my dad's great great uncle. I was fortunate enough to meet him. He was still working in his 90s. he lived in Los Angeles. Okay. He had a very modest lifestyle. He was surrounded by his work. His wife was
Peter (02:16)
His wife was a poet. She also lived into her 90s. So I never really got that like
Lonny Goldsmith (02:18)
I never really got that like
Peter (02:20)
close in mentorship or dialogue with him, but I got to experience
Lonny Goldsmith (02:22)
Dialogue with him, but I got to
Peter (02:24)
what his life was after all of that. And like that's kind of got imprinted.
Lonny Goldsmith (02:25)
Okay.
Lonny Goldsmith (02:28)
Yeah. Yeah.
Peter (02:28)
Like I kind of could maybe do that. Yeah.
Lonny Goldsmith (02:31)
So when you decided glass was
Peter (02:31)
So when you decided glass was
Lonny Goldsmith (02:34)
was the way, like we're looking at like really I mean, these are large scale like these are some taller than us pieces of work here. this is not
Peter (02:35)
Like we're looking at like really I mean these are large scale like these are some taller than us pieces of work here. Yeah. this is not
Lonny Goldsmith (02:44)
not to minimize the people who hand blow a vase or like a paperweight, which are super which are well, those are super cool in their own right. this is very different in sort of like what are some of the sort
Peter (02:46)
Yeah. Which are super. Well I used to do that. Which are which are super cool in their own right. Yeah.
Lonny Goldsmith (02:55)
of technique because this is obviously isn't just glass. It's like a whole like there's glass and there's other sculpting work that goes with it. How do
Peter (02:58)
This is obviously isn't just glass. It's like a whole like there's glass and there's other sculpting work that goes with it. How do you
Lonny Goldsmith (03:06)
what are some of like the techniques that are sort of fused together here? So these call from other
Peter (03:06)
What are some of like the techniques that are so fused together? So these these pieces evolved from another series
Peter (03:12)
that evolved from another series. I blew glass for 15 years. And like that was important for me to learn a skill, make
Lonny Goldsmith (03:14)
I blew glass, but that was important. Yeah.
Peter (03:18)
a living. It was functional, really extension from pottery. Okay. But this is more sculptural stuff. I'm working with MDF board or particle
Lonny Goldsmith (03:22)
Okay. But this is more sculptural stuff with any other
Peter (03:28)
board and and laminating pieces together and coating it with metal paint.
Peter (03:33)
And then hiding lights inside. I do a lot of welding,
Peter (03:35)
like this piece, this kind of you know, ladder piece. Yeah. is welded
Lonny Goldsmith (03:38)
Yeah.
Peter (03:40)
steel with cast glass. And learning, I'm not like
Lonny Goldsmith (03:44)
Learning I'm not.
Peter (03:46)
super proficient at woodworking or metal working, but I can do enough. Okay. and for me it's about
Lonny Goldsmith (03:52)
Peace out.
Peter (03:53)
the idea as much as the I mean you have to have good craft. You have to refine your skills. Sure. But it's about just
Lonny Goldsmith (03:58)
Sure.
Peter (04:00)
conveying my ideas. So
Peter (04:02)
so the techniques of casting glass, for me it's pretty
Lonny Goldsmith (04:03)
The techniques of casting glass made pretty
Peter (04:06)
straightforward. I work in clay. I carve everything in clay first. really? Yeah, so it's a low clay relief. Okay. And it's great. You can draw, you
Lonny Goldsmith (04:10)
really? Yes. Okay.
Peter (04:15)
can add, subtract. Once it's ready, then I pour
Lonny Goldsmith (04:18)
Once it's ready, then I
Peter (04:19)
a plaster and silica mold over it. And that's what gets put in the kiln. You take the clay out, you sprinkle color glass
Lonny Goldsmith (04:21)
That's a good thing.
Peter (04:25)
into the mold with clear on top, and you bake it. Basically like a big toaster oven.
Lonny Goldsmith (04:30)
how hot?
Peter (04:31)
You go to fifteen hundred degrees. Okay, so a little more intense than a toaster oven. Yeah, it yeah, exactly. But it's not like a glass furnace where there's fire and you're at two thousand degrees. wow. and it's all contained. Cools down
Lonny Goldsmith (04:32)
Okay, so a little little more intense than the toaster oven. Yeah. Okay. But it's not like a glass furnace. wow, okay. It's all contained. Cools down.
Peter (04:42)
over a week if it's a big thick piece like this. So
Lonny Goldsmith (04:45)
So
Lonny Goldsmith (04:45)
I don't want to say it's easy to do this, but like really just play.
Peter (04:45)
I don't want to say it's easy to do this, but like really you just need clay and some plaster
Peter (04:50)
and silica. and you can you can do that. I mean, and that's the really cool thing about this guy. absolutely, yeah. No, they're very tactile. Is that there is so much texture in this. And so you you can really feel the the technique in what you put together. Yeah. And that's what I like, because you're really making a mark
Lonny Goldsmith (04:53)
I mean, and that's the really cool thing about this guy. absolutely, yeah. Is that there is so much texture in this. And so you you can really feel the the technique in in what you put together here. And that's what I like.
Peter (05:09)
into something. So it's more like for me it'd be more like.
Lonny Goldsmith (05:11)
Yeah.
Peter (05:15)
woodcuts or printmaking which I'm drawn painting. Like I don't look at glass art
Lonny Goldsmith (05:17)
Like I don't think.
Peter (05:18)
so much for inspiration and like I get the technique. It's wow. Like I could
Lonny Goldsmith (05:21)
Yeah.
Peter (05:23)
never do that like what my friends do. But I didn't set out to do that. Yeah. And right I mean this is when did you sort of switch to this sort of really large scale? like 2010. wow. So I did production glass
Lonny Goldsmith (05:25)
Yeah. But I didn't set out to do that. Right. Right. I mean g this is when did you sort of switch to this sort of l really large scale kind of work? Like two thousand eighteen. wow. So I did production glass.
Peter (05:39)
blowing for like 15 years.
Peter (05:41)
And then transition to doing more and I was doing
Lonny Goldsmith (05:42)
And also
Peter (05:43)
my own like house series and small scale sculpture and commission work. And then 2007,
Lonny Goldsmith (05:47)
Yeah.
Peter (05:49)
2008, I switched to just doing commission work and sculptural work.
Peter (05:53)
the recession came, half my galleries probably closed. I was into maybe a hundred galleries in museum gift stores around the country. I did wholesale. So it was a good business, but creatively you kind of hit
Lonny Goldsmith (05:59)
Wow. Okay. So good business, but creatively you kind of
Peter (06:05)
the end of the line for me. and then two thousand
Lonny Goldsmith (06:08)
Thousand.
Peter (06:08)
and ten I built a kiln that's twice as big as the one I have now over at 2010 East Hennepin Huge warehouse space. It was cheap.
Lonny Goldsmith (06:16)
Yeah. My first series. Right.
Peter (06:17)
And I did my first series and then I just made I spent a year, I
Peter (06:20)
did like 13 pieces, and it was the first time I was working larger than my body. And
Peter (06:23)
it was incredible. It was like really liberating and and freeing to just draw on clay, you know. So like that's my table I work on. So I
Lonny Goldsmith (06:28)
like that's gonna be what we're coming. Okay.
Peter (06:31)
roll out slabs of clay and I stand up there and I can just start getting into it. So that's been fifteen years now. And I just started doing this series probably two years ago. The lit the lit ones. This is called the Celestial Bodies.
Lonny Goldsmith (06:36)
What what is this series? This is called the celestial body.
Lonny Goldsmith (06:44)
Okay.
Peter (06:45)
and it all kind of
Peter (06:46)
came from using this cloudy fritted glass. So it's not trans parent, but it's translucent. And then I've always kind of been allergic to cords,
Lonny Goldsmith (06:53)
it's kind of
Peter (06:55)
but I was like, what the hell? Let's light these things up. And with LEDs now you can get different temperatures. Yeah. So
Lonny Goldsmith (06:59)
Yeah.
Peter (07:02)
a woodworking friend taught me how to do this or instructed me and I figured it out. So this is a newer series, which is pretty exciting.
Lonny Goldsmith (07:12)
know how many pieces you
Lonny Goldsmith (07:13)
ultimately want so I spent a year doing these down Okay. And that's okay, right? Yeah
Peter (07:14)
so I spent a year doing these. I haven't sold one yet, but you know, I've got them in a few galleries across the country. Okay. and that's okay, right? Like I don't set out
Peter (07:24)
like this series is gonna sell. That's not that's not it. Like I sell my other things and it just takes time. Yeah.
Lonny Goldsmith (07:26)
That's not that's not it. It it I sell my other things on. Yeah.
Peter (07:32)
Commission work fills in the you know, it goes like this. Yeah. But
Lonny Goldsmith (07:35)
Yeah. But
Peter (07:36)
I'm probably not gonna hit
Lonny Goldsmith (07:36)
probably not gonna
Peter (07:37)
more of these in in the immediate future. I'm gonna work on this kind of series with all the little bodies. Okay. Yeah. Cause that's sort of a narrative I've used in the past. I've used, you know, certain symbols, windows, stairs, this little figure that we can all kind of identify. so I think once I get
Lonny Goldsmith (07:53)
Yeah.
Peter (07:56)
some projects out of the way, I'm gonna explore those a little bit. and that's a new series too, these some smaller tabletop things.
Lonny Goldsmith (08:04)
Really cool.
Peter (08:05)
They're call them the Horizon
Peter (08:06)
series. again, it's it's nice not always to work this big. Like these are heavy. Yeah. And I can still carry them up and down the stairs and get them in the kiln by myself. Yeah. Which is I don't know how much longer I can do that. That's a lot. Those are these are they weigh probably 120 pounds, maybe the glass.
Lonny Goldsmith (08:11)
No, yeah. And I can still carry them up down. Yeah. I don't know how much longer I can't. That's a that's a lot. Those are these are these are weigh probably a hundred
Peter (08:24)
Maybe, you know, with smaller ones might be 80. But when I once I get them glued up, I need help lifting this thing up. But
Lonny Goldsmith (08:27)
When I once I get them up
Lonny Goldsmith (08:31)
is a is nice to see smaller. Yeah.
Peter (08:31)
so it's nice to do smaller work and change
Peter (08:34)
the series that I'm working on. Then I can come back to this. Okay. Yeah. I always compare like I think of writing. Like and and I tell this to my kids.
Lonny Goldsmith (08:38)
I always compare like I think of writing like and and I tell this to my kids
Lonny Goldsmith (08:45)
all the time struggle getting started
Peter (08:47)
Struggle getting started.
Lonny Goldsmith (08:49)
writing something for school. They're like, yeah, but you write all the time. I'm like, but there is nothing that scares me more than than the blank Google Doc. Starting from nothing where you have
Peter (08:51)
Yeah, but you write all the time. I'm like, but there is nothing that scares me more than than the blank glue. Sure. Starting from nothing, where you have
Peter (09:01)
a thousand different jumping off points in head, is borderline crippling. What was your jumping off point? What were what was sort of trying to like know?
Lonny Goldsmith (09:02)
thousand different jumping off points in your head is borderline crippling. what was your jumping off point? What were what was sort of trying to like, you know,
Lonny Goldsmith (09:14)
get in your head or anything, but I'm just sort of curious, what were you thinking of when you're like, I have an idea for a series. Kind of looks like, you know,
Peter (09:14)
Get in your head or anything, but I'm just sort of curious, what were you thinking of when you're like, I have an idea for a series that kind of looks like, you know,
Peter (09:23)
A, B, C, D, E, F, you know, however to whatever end this goes. Here's where I'm starting and here's where I think it's going. Yeah. Yeah. So I I work more, I'm not the kind of artist is like,
Lonny Goldsmith (09:23)
A B C D E F, you however to whatever end this goes. Here's where I'm starting and here's where I think. Yeah, so I I I'm not the kind of artist who's like
Peter (09:35)
okay, this is it. I gotta figure it out. I need to execute. It's more an
Lonny Goldsmith (09:36)
Uh-huh.
Peter (09:38)
exploration.
Peter (09:41)
And for this series, again, it's similar to my Sentinel series. Well, real out of again, the blank Google Doc is just a big slab of clay. Yeah.
Lonny Goldsmith (09:47)
Yeah.
Peter (09:49)
And then I can start drawing. I generally get like
Lonny Goldsmith (09:51)
Generally get
Peter (09:54)
a feeling, an emotion. Is this gonna be expressive and dynamic and like you know, Kandinsky pow in my mind? Or is it gonna be more shapes and patterns like topographical
Lonny Goldsmith (10:01)
Right.
Peter (10:05)
landscape and cubist or like Rothko-esque, let's say?
Lonny Goldsmith (10:09)
Yeah.
Peter (10:10)
so for me it's more exploration
Peter (10:12)
than this is where I'm trying to get to. And then it's figuring out making it dynamic, making it balanced in the process. So where do you find your inspiration? I'm just inspired. I don't know. Honestly, I don't I don't
Lonny Goldsmith (10:14)
Okay. And then it's figuring out making it. Yeah. Where do you find your inspiration? I'm just inspired. Honestly, I don't I don't
Peter (10:29)
research things, I don't pretend I've got this theory I'm trying to work out. It's just the way my being is, is to be expressive.
Peter (10:38)
Color, someone
Lonny Goldsmith (10:38)
All right.
Peter (10:39)
could say they wrote a piece about me and they said, like you're kind of like a colorist. So I believe in that. Like, like that's what I do really well. Not to sound like No, but I mean this is there is like a lot of vibrancy in the work that you're having. Thanks a lot. Yeah, but I know it like I've been doing this for years, so
Lonny Goldsmith (10:43)
Okay. That's what you sound like No, but I mean this is there is like a lot of vibrancy in the works that you have in here. Thanks a lot, yeah, but I know I like I've been doing this for years.
Peter (10:54)
like I'm learning what I do well and what I need to work on. Yeah.
Lonny Goldsmith (10:56)
Yeah.
Peter (10:58)
so it's it's about bringing something into the world that wouldn't be there unless if I did it. And
Lonny Goldsmith (10:58)
So it's about creating something like
Peter (11:05)
then when someone's willing to exchange.
Peter (11:07)
They're hard earned cash for what I do. That's
Lonny Goldsmith (11:07)
That's
Peter (11:09)
the validation of like, keep doing this, keep doing this. Even though I do it even if I don't sell it, if that makes sense. Yeah.
Lonny Goldsmith (11:13)
Even though I don't either. Yeah. Yeah.
Peter (11:16)
because I sold pottery when I was like 15. Right. And it was like, I remember one of my dad's friends was like, and I set them all up in my house. And he's like, Well, do you wanna sell these or what? I was like, I wanna sell them. He's like, go and take three dollars off every piece. I was like, brilliant.
Peter (11:31)
Cause it's not about getting rich. You're not going to. Right. You know, and like I didn't follow the path of
Lonny Goldsmith (11:31)
Right. You know, like I didn't follow the path but
Peter (11:36)
getting grants and doing exhibitions. I didn't go into academia. I want people to have my stuff. Right. So like blowing glass, doing paperweights, making functional stuff. Right. Beautiful. Gorgeous. Works for me. You know what I mean? So I think all artists have their
Lonny Goldsmith (11:40)
I people to happy stuff. Right. Right. Beautiful. Gorgeous. Works for me. Yeah. You know what I mean? So I think all artists have their
Peter (11:52)
ambition or their path or what fills them up. Right. If that makes sense. No, for sure. I think that absolutely.
Lonny Goldsmith (11:54)
Right. No, for sure. I think there I think that absolutely.
Lonny Goldsmith (11:58)
But I I just I always find it interesting in talking to artists and everybody's sort of style and inspirational sort of derive from their own different places. Yeah. I like
Peter (11:58)
But i I just I always find it interesting in talking to artists and everybody's sort of style and inspirational derived. Yeah. I I like abstract expressionists, yeah. You know, painters. I like
Peter (12:11)
David Smith, the sculptor. like contemporary painters, Nicole Isaman's a crazy painter. so I look at contemporary art. Yeah. And then not like I'm drawing ideas on it, but I get inspired by it. Okay.
Lonny Goldsmith (12:26)
Okay.
Peter (12:26)
That makes sense. No, for sure. Getting back to your question, what inspires me? Everything around me, let's just say. Yeah, no, for sure. Which is a you know. So I was looking at your your sort of artist page in the Minnesota Jewish Artist Direction. Yeah. And one of the things you speak about that I found was really interesting was that you speak about or orchestrating shapes, textures, and colors like a musical composition. And you've named pieces after musical themes. Yeah.
Lonny Goldsmith (12:27)
No, for sure. No. Everything around. Yeah, no, for sure. So I was looking at your your sort of artist page in the Minnesota Jewish Artist Directory. And one of the things you speak about that I found was really interesting was that you speak about or orchestrating shapes, textures, and colors like a musical composition. And you've named pieces after musical themes. You've rhapsody in yellow
Lonny Goldsmith (12:55)
and blue note.
Peter (12:56)
How do music and like when I came into your studio today, music was pumping, you constantly have music going on, it's only turned off so we can have this conversation, I'm sure. So how how do you sort of listen to music or find inspiration from other
Lonny Goldsmith (12:56)
How do music and like when I came into your studio today, music was pumping, you constantly have music going on, it's only turned off so we could have this conversation, I'm sure. So how how do you sort of listen to music or find inspiration from other
Lonny Goldsmith (13:15)
art?
Peter (13:15)
yeah, music is great because I don't have to think about it.
Lonny Goldsmith (13:15)
yeah, music is great. Yeah.
Peter (13:19)
it just gets into you. I mean I read and and I think it draws stuff from that.
Lonny Goldsmith (13:23)
Mm-hmm.
Peter (13:25)
like the musical stuff
Lonny Goldsmith (13:26)
Mystical stuff.
Peter (13:27)
is kind of like and again like I can make
Lonny Goldsmith (13:29)
Again, but I can make
Peter (13:30)
something and then go back and find the meaning in it and like
Peter (13:33)
One of my s my son is a he composes music, he's at University of Michigan, okay. Composing music. And so was just like, and we talk about our processes and there's a lot of overlap. And I was like,
Lonny Goldsmith (13:37)
Okay. We talk about our process, a lot more about it, I'm sure.
Peter (13:42)
well, that's great. I was like, well, why don't you because I hate titling things. And so it was sort of like, that's good bucket of narrative, lyrical,
Lonny Goldsmith (13:46)
So it was sort of like that. Yeah.
Peter (13:51)
expressive vocabulary to use. That's funny. I hate writing headlines So is it similar? Yeah. Similar. I mean, it's the title of the piece that you see. I and some people go to the
Lonny Goldsmith (13:54)
That's funny, I hate writing headlines. So similar. I mean it's the title of the piece that you see. I and some people the gallery
Peter (14:02)
museum.
Peter (14:03)
Or the gallery, the exhibition,
Lonny Goldsmith (14:03)
next
Peter (14:04)
and they want to read the information and then experience the work. That's where my wife is. Yeah. And I'm more like, I want to experience this. Yeah.
Lonny Goldsmith (14:09)
Yeah. All right. Yeah.
Peter (14:12)
And then I'll go see what the artist's intention is. Sure. So what do you want people to feel when they first see your work? And I suppose every piece is gonna be different. No, that's a wonderful question. I I want them to feel, you know, I want
Lonny Goldsmith (14:16)
Sure. What do you want people to feel when they first see your work? And I suppose every piece is gonna be a little bit different, right? That's a wonderful question. I I want them Yeah
Peter (14:28)
them to be engaged and it's associative and so
Peter (14:32)
Like a lot of people
Lonny Goldsmith (14:33)
Pump.
Peter (14:33)
will see Hebrew calligraphy in these things. You know? I'm trying to find where there's like a yud or something and like, you know, those little symbols. some people will, you know, recognize
Lonny Goldsmith (14:37)
Interesting. Yeah. people will recommend
Peter (14:45)
like it's a landscape or those birds, things like that. So I don't have a real strong
Lonny Goldsmith (14:48)
Mm-hmm.
Peter (14:50)
like if you see something, great. But it doesn't have to be what I see, you know, honestly. That's right. No, that's fair. And that's not for all my work. Right.
Lonny Goldsmith (14:52)
doesn't have to be That's true. That's right. No, that's fair. And that's not for all my work. Right.
Peter (14:57)
but for these for sure.
Peter (15:00)
Yeah, yeah. But you I wanna get an i an emotional response that might
Lonny Goldsmith (15:01)
But I wanna get Yeah.
Peter (15:04)
trigger some thinking. And you know, and in today's world like beauty
Lonny Goldsmith (15:08)
So in today's world like
Peter (15:09)
is is good. Like we need more beautiful things. And it transcends just being decorative
Lonny Goldsmith (15:12)
Absolutely.
Peter (15:15)
and if it's okay just to be decorative, but if it transcends that, that's okay too. Like I guess that's more my goal. For sure. 'Cause I can
Lonny Goldsmith (15:20)
Yes, that's for sure.
Peter (15:23)
just crank stuff out, like
Peter (15:24)
But there's no point in that. Anymore for me. As an artist. Right. I mean if i if you're I suppose if you're trying to mass produce stuff that's efficiency. Which there is nothing wrong with that. That's just not how that's not your vision for your art though. Right, right, right, right. And I I that's what Glass blowing
Lonny Goldsmith (15:26)
Anymore for No, I mean if you're right. I mean if i if you're I suppose if you're trying to mass produce stuff that so solely for a commercial purpose, which there is nothing wrong with that. That's just not how that's not your vision for your art though. Right, right, right, right. Now I that's class.
Peter (15:46)
was. I kinda did that. And it was efficiency and it was economics. It was great. But
Lonny Goldsmith (15:48)
Yeah. Right. But
Lonny Goldsmith (15:51)
yeah, I sort of that's kind of what
Peter (15:51)
But yeah, I I sort of and that's kinda when
Peter (15:52)
came to this series, the horizon series. It was just like, well I'm tired of I I I I figured that
Lonny Goldsmith (15:55)
On party. Pick that.
Peter (15:58)
piece out. These celestial bodies. It took me over a year. I figured it out. I did a I think a kick ass body work. It's really cool. And there's nothing else like it. I think I'm getting good responses
Lonny Goldsmith (16:04)
It's really cool.
Peter (16:08)
to it. and then I was like, okay, let's let's dial it back. Let's work smaller.
Peter (16:14)
little quicker, work on more ideas. I can do I usually do about four to six of these at once in clay. wow. So I can, you know, it's more like drawing
Lonny Goldsmith (16:19)
Wow.
Peter (16:21)
or maybe doing paintings where you're working on many canvases. and so it's you know, it's about challenging myself, trying something new, staying engaged. So because a piece that after firing will take like a week or so. Yeah.
Lonny Goldsmith (16:27)
So trying something. Yeah. So because a piece that after firing will take like a week or so
Lonny Goldsmith (16:38)
to cool. What do you do while it's cooling? I guess what's the Okay, so it's like the next lab of clay goes down and exactly a polishing. There's a lot of polishing. Okay.
Peter (16:42)
Working on other stuff. Okay. So it's like the next line of clay goes down. Yeah, exactly. Or polishing. There's a lot of polishing of the edges. So yeah, all these edges are polished. Okay. which I tried to get away with away from because polishing is kind of boring.
Peter (16:57)
You know, it's it's just standing there polishing. It's meditative though. Sure. But with those I started using copper foil
Lonny Goldsmith (16:57)
You know, it's it's just meditative. Sure. But those are sort of topics.
Peter (17:04)
and and leaf on the edges. So I'd smooth them and you know, play around. But so I'm working on different
Lonny Goldsmith (17:06)
Yeah. Okay. So I'm working on
Peter (17:10)
series or different stages of a
Peter (17:12)
piece which is you know, keeps maybe moving forward while the stuff's cooling down. Yeah. So glass feels I mean glass sort of like pottery in some ways are like feel like the two most fraught with danger. Sort of art forms Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I hear yeah. How do you like again, these these are not like vases. Right. Obviously it's still glass.
Lonny Goldsmith (17:16)
Sure. Okay. So glass feels I mean glass sort of like pottery in some ways are like feel like the two most fraught with danger sort of art forms. Yeah, yeah. How do you like again, th these these are not like vases, right? Obviously, it's still glass.
Lonny Goldsmith (17:40)
And things could still happen, you know. Yeah, I think I think the danger comes from glass.
Peter (17:40)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean I think I think the danger comes from like the glass
Peter (17:46)
furnaces and all the fire and heat. Okay. And the torches and all that and people moving. And yeah, you can get
Lonny Goldsmith (17:47)
Okay. Yeah. And yeah, you can get
Peter (17:52)
burned or you know, things can happen. Yeah. This stuff is pretty safe because you're cooling it slow enough that it'll never just shatter and explode. I was thinking more of the like shattering. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's why we cool stuff down. Okay. Yeah. No, but i it it's just the idea that you can spend so much time on something
Lonny Goldsmith (17:54)
Yeah. This stuff is pretty cooling itself, not that it'll I was thinking more of the like shattering or things falling or th like okay. No, but it it it's just the idea y you can spend so much time on something
Lonny Goldsmith (18:09)
and then one why you moving moving a chair, one wrong move and it falls over and kaput and
Peter (18:12)
One one you moving moving a chair, one wrong move and it falls over and crash. Yeah, there's no getting
Peter (18:18)
around it. I mean like when you ki came in and I'm talking about shipping this piece and I'm like, okay, and now I'm just
Lonny Goldsmith (18:21)
Like when you kind of think.
Peter (18:25)
thinking, okay, I'm gonna add a little layer of foam underneath the whole thing just because. Yeah. but I I guess you just get used to it. And I try not to get too attached to anything. Like it
Lonny Goldsmith (18:29)
Yeah. But I guess you just I try not to
Peter (18:35)
is just a material and it is something I made.
Peter (18:40)
It it would hurt if something breaks, I don't wanna lie. Like I just I would it's imagine you know. but
Lonny Goldsmith (18:40)
It would hurt if something breaks at a ball. I like I I would imagine. but
Peter (18:45)
I don't know. I guess you just yeah, I mean there's a certain dang I don't wanna say danger to it, but you take a risk. Yeah.
Lonny Goldsmith (18:51)
Yeah.
Peter (18:52)
Yeah, it's it's there's some risk involved in terms of firing and cooling and it's it sucks when the piece doesn't work out. You get a bunch of bubbles in it or
Lonny Goldsmith (18:58)
Right.
Peter (18:59)
then you gotta sort of refine your technique. So I was gonna ask them, what's the lesson? Like how do you how do you know how do you know what you
Lonny Goldsmith (19:02)
So I gonna ask then, what's the lesson? Like how do you how do you know how do you know when
Lonny Goldsmith (19:07)
something has gone wrong? And how and I guess more to the point of how do you know what needs to be fixed the next time around? Yeah, that's that that's usually I know right when you're polishing.
Peter (19:07)
Something has gone wrong. And and I guess more to the point of yeah, how do you know what needs to be fixed the next time around? Yeah. Yeah, that's that that's a excellent question. Usually you I know right when I peek in the kiln. Really? I can tell like or or you're polishing
Peter (19:25)
it and now it's like, my god, I didn't see that check there. And it'll just be like a surface crack
Lonny Goldsmith (19:28)
Good.
Peter (19:29)
in the color. And you're just like, I just spent two weeks and how much money on this material. But
Lonny Goldsmith (19:33)
but the
Peter (19:35)
the
Peter (19:36)
The next step is like, okay, what caused it? I'm not the most curious person, so I'm more like, I'll try this, I'll try that. Right. But I'm also like, so and then I'm doing
Lonny Goldsmith (19:36)
next step is like okay, what cost is I'm not so more like I'll try this, I'll try that. Right. But I'm also like them
Peter (19:47)
again when you can't get the materials you're used to because they just don't supply it anymore. You have to adapt.
Lonny Goldsmith (19:52)
Okay.
Peter (19:53)
So I'm starting to use sheet glass. And I did a thick casting and there's just champagne bubbles like everywhere. Kind of distracting. I was like, that's not what I want. And so you go online, you start asking, you know, the robot what
Lonny Goldsmith (19:58)
Kind of distracting. Yeah. Okay. So go online, you start asking Robot.
Peter (20:05)
to do.
Peter (20:06)
And I'm gonna try it, you know, and just
Lonny Goldsmith (20:08)
Right.
Peter (20:09)
so I'm gonna sift layers of like super fine clear powder between each sheet of glass and it's supposed to allow this all the air to go out, like a capillary effect. Interesting. So but when I see
Lonny Goldsmith (20:18)
Interesting.
Peter (20:20)
something that's not right, you yeah, you just it's not a great feeling.
Lonny Goldsmith (20:23)
It's frustrating.
Lonny Goldsmith (20:24)
I would think you would want to be able to like figure out so you're not making the the same mistake over and over again. You want to like, you know, adapt and move on or figure something. Yeah, for me the thing is it's more like colors. Like playing with so I'll try
Peter (20:24)
think you would want to be able to like figure out so you're not making this same mistake. The same mistake over and over again. You want to like you know, adapt and move on or figure something. Yeah, for me the thing's it's more like colors I like to play with and so I'll try different layering and mixings.
Lonny Goldsmith (20:42)
Yeah.
Peter (20:43)
And then it's like, dang, that worked really well. Or okay, I wasn't
Lonny Goldsmith (20:45)
Yeah.
Peter (20:46)
super successful with those two colors near each other. Try to remember that. Right. I'm not a note taker. I was just gonna ask. No, I've tried. And I again I've been doing this a long time. So and I used to like and then it never worked out. Or it just takes the life out of it for me. It's just like I don't need to remember. Like, I'm just gonna do it. And and it works. And then if I trust that, and I'm also not into replicating
Lonny Goldsmith (20:48)
Yeah. Right. I was just gonna ask. I've tried and then again, I've been doing this a long time. Right. So and I used to like for that. Okay. Like I'm just gonna do it. Right. And and it works. Yeah. And if I trust that and I'm also not interrupted.
Peter (21:10)
the exact same thing.
Peter (21:12)
So, but you know, someone I had to
Lonny Goldsmith (21:12)
But yeah, so bad.
Peter (21:13)
recreate this piece and it was like, okay, I can I think I can remember what I did. Yeah. And you try your best. Yeah. So, but you do have to refine
Lonny Goldsmith (21:18)
Yeah. Yeah. But you do have to perform.
Peter (21:23)
and and learn. I'm not saying I don't like look into things and try to figure out mistakes. And I have comrades,
Lonny Goldsmith (21:26)
No, no, no, of course.
Peter (21:28)
you know, who who do things that are similar to what I do can ask them. So having some community. That helps. Yeah. I think that, you know, that would help because an island doing you're on an island doing
Lonny Goldsmith (21:30)
Similar to what I do having some That helps. I mean I think that, you know, that would help because you're not on an island. I mean, you're on an island doing
Lonny Goldsmith (21:41)
but it it's not, you know, th there are people you can call on when you're like, Hey, X, Y, and Z keeps happening. Have you ha anybody had this? Has anybody seen this before? What have you done? Yeah, no, I I I
Peter (21:41)
But I work a lot. It's not, you know, th there are people you can call on and they're like, hey, X, Y, and Z keeps happening. Right. Have you had anybody had this? Anybody see this? Or whatever. Yeah, no, and you got I d
Peter (21:55)
I do take advantage of those resources. I mean there aren't many people doing glass castings this large. Yeah. but it's the same principles. This is big, yeah. I mean it's I don't say it's kind of crazy,
Lonny Goldsmith (21:58)
I there are many people who This is pretty big scale. This is I don't say it's kind of great.
Peter (22:07)
but for me it it's great because it is more like painting.
Lonny Goldsmith (22:09)
Yeah.
Peter (22:11)
And it the scale of it gets me outside my body and it sort of allows me to just be more expressive. Boom, boom, boom. and it's not for everybody.
Lonny Goldsmith (22:19)
And it's tough for.
Peter (22:20)
I mean, you have to have a place to put it. And and you know, I don't consider
Lonny Goldsmith (22:22)
Yeah.
Peter (22:25)
that too much. I'm not the most practical, like, where's this gonna go type of artist. Right. But they find homes.
Peter (22:32)
For sure. That's the hope and the dream. You're just making them. It's somebody else's decision. They're gonna buy you. They've gotta figure out No, and that's and that gets back
Lonny Goldsmith (22:32)
For sure. I mean, you you're just making It's somebody else's decision. If they're gonna buy it, they've gotta figure out where it's gotta go.
Peter (22:38)
to that completing the cycle, completing the circle. Yeah. You know, 'cause if I don't think I experienced that when I was fifteen, sixteen, seventeen. And even in art school, yeah. When you go there to
Lonny Goldsmith (22:41)
Yeah. But I don't think I experienced that well. Even in art school. Yeah.
Peter (22:47)
learn art and concepts and intentions and craft wasn't emphasized in like the late eighties when I was there. I was blowing glass all the time and taking stuff home and selling it.
Peter (22:58)
And people are like, what are you doing? It's like, well, I don't want to paint houses. I'm gonna sell this stuff.
Peter (23:01)
So you mentioned like sort of the the colors, like figuring out, maybe the shouldn't go next to each other. How did you like as you're putting the color in this, like you've got the mold, you've got everything, you're laying it out. How do you w with this piece in particular, how do you decide what's the
Lonny Goldsmith (23:01)
you mentioned like sort of the the colors, like figuring out, maybe this shouldn't go next to each other. How did you like as you're putting the color in this? Like you've got the mole, you've got everything, you're laying it all out. How do you w with this piece in particular, right? How do you decide what's the
Lonny Goldsmith (23:20)
what's the what's the what goes where and Yeah, no, and that's that's great entry point.
Peter (23:20)
What's the what's the what goes weird? Yeah, no, and that's that's a great entry point
Peter (23:26)
'cause it's sort of like the funnest part of the process. Yeah. 'Cause I've done all the work, it's a lot of, you know, carving, getting it right. And so I'm standing up on
Lonny Goldsmith (23:26)
like the ones. Yeah. Because I've done all the work, a lot of carving, right? So I'm standing up on
Peter (23:34)
the kiln bed, looking down at the plaster, and it's again it's the blank sheet of paper. And I got all my colors out and it's a again, it's
Lonny Goldsmith (23:37)
out of the plaster and just against the Yeah. I got all my colors out against
Peter (23:42)
a feeling. It's just like, let's throw this bold red down here, or,
Lonny Goldsmith (23:45)
Red Tom Yeah or
Peter (23:47)
you know.
Peter (23:49)
And then it just moves you around. Yeah. And it's sort of like
Lonny Goldsmith (23:49)
And it's just really
Peter (23:51)
again, it's like composing. It's like try a note try a chord. And as I'm doing this, I mean I'm trying to think back to that. This was one of the first ones I did. but it's about balance and s and and again the colors look
Lonny Goldsmith (24:00)
But it's about balance. Again, the colors.
Peter (24:03)
very different before they're fired. and using this kind of glass, I'm getting this kind of dappled snowflake effect.
Lonny Goldsmith (24:12)
Yeah. Which I hadn't really done.
Peter (24:12)
Which I hadn't really done a
Peter (24:13)
lot of before or any, except this may have been that was like the first one I did. Okay. I was like, that's cool. Let's do more of this. and so I'm just trying to create balance
Lonny Goldsmith (24:20)
And so I'm just trying to create balance.
Peter (24:22)
and
Peter (24:24)
energy have it be dynamic. and if I throw down a color and I don't like
Lonny Goldsmith (24:24)
Yeah. And if I throw down a color that I don't
Peter (24:28)
it, I'll just take a a paintbrush and a postcard and brush it away or grab my little vacuum and okay. So you can erase in a sense. that's pretty cool. So like with this, I mean I really I mean the the purple is cool but it's fun how it's sort of like lighter here and sort of like especially down here as it sort of fades out into the white. Yeah. Do you know how it's going to look
Lonny Goldsmith (24:34)
Okay. So you can erase. that's pretty cool. So like with this, I mean th I really I mean the p the purple is cool, but it's fun how it's sort of like lighter here and sort of like especially down here as it sort of fades out into the white. Like, do you know how it's going to look
Lonny Goldsmith (24:51)
finished while you're putting the colors down? I mean and does that come from experience of working with this or because you just sort of you know intuition. It's both. Okay. But it does I do that.
Peter (24:51)
finished while you're putting the colors down. A little bit. And does that come from experience of working with this or because you just sort of intuition? It it com it's both. It's both. But it does I do exactly
Peter (25:04)
that's an intention of like going darker into lighter.
Peter (25:06)
fading to this. This is actually like a champagne, but it almost looks white here. Yeah. And then this is a
Lonny Goldsmith (25:10)
Yeah.
Peter (25:12)
pale blue with this purple underneath it. Yeah. And it's darker to lighter. Yeah. So I you can do some shading. I mean one one thing I wish glass colors mixed more like paints. And they just don't. Some do, some don't. Some s some will always hold. Like the reds will
Lonny Goldsmith (25:14)
Yeah darker and lighter. Yeah. So I you can do some shading. I mean one one thing I wish glass colors would mix. Mm. Some do, some Some will always hold like the red.
Peter (25:29)
hold their their kind of color. Yeah. It gets muddy. Any red's a difficult color.
Peter (25:37)
but I but it's it is the sort of the the fun part and then the next most exciting part is when you open the kiln and roll it out and see like what happened. Cause you really don't know. You really don't.
Lonny Goldsmith (25:37)
But I but it it is the sort of the the fun part and then the next part. Yeah. Because you really don't know. Right.
Peter (25:48)
I mean as much as I've done it and I have a good idea and I'm trying to create that. Yeah. Ultimately. And that's exciting. I mean I again otherwise.
Lonny Goldsmith (25:52)
Yeah. Ultimately. And that's expected. Yeah.
Lonny Goldsmith (25:57)
But yeah, ultimately.
Peter (26:00)
Yeah. Yeah. And that is cool. And that's where glass and clay have similarities when you fire. There's a magic with heat that
Lonny Goldsmith (26:01)
And that is cool. And that's where glass and play have similar environments. Mm-hmm.
Peter (26:07)
just is like you know, an atmosphere and all that kind of stuff. And some people like there's a lot of science to glass
Lonny Goldsmith (26:09)
Yeah. Like there's a lot of science in the class.
Peter (26:13)
and there's casters who really take their time and know everything about drying out molds and how things are gonna react.
Peter (26:21)
And then there's me who just throws throws stuff in the kiln. But I have a wealth of knowledge that I'm drawing on over however many years I've been doing it. Right. You're not real like fully. No, absolutely not. There is a method to move the madness. Yes. Correct. Correct, Lonny. It has to be because Well, that's fun. I mean that's otherwise you're just winging it and guessing. And it's not it's not about that. No. because they do have like again certain
Lonny Goldsmith (26:25)
But I have a wealth of knowledge that I'm drawing over how Right. You're not real like fully winging it or anything. Like there there there is a method to the madness. Yes. Correct. There I mean and there kind of has to be because Well that's fun. Right. Right. Right. No. Because they do have like
Peter (26:47)
pieces that are that, you know.
Peter (26:50)
have meaning,
Peter (26:51)
I want to create that feel, that emotion with color. you know, I'm looking
Lonny Goldsmith (26:56)
Mm-hmm.
Peter (26:57)
at these two pieces I made for after my parents passed. You know, and one's just kind of ladder with the negative space and then the other one's more gait. but just like knowing what I wanted to put in those. And so when I come back to
Lonny Goldsmith (27:03)
Yeah. Like knowing what I wanted to do. So I come back.
Peter (27:08)
these, maybe not as a significant, but certainly significant, yeah, I'm going with that
Lonny Goldsmith (27:13)
Yeah, I'm going with that.
Peter (27:14)
intention. Yeah. Yeah. And then again it's sort of
Lonny Goldsmith (27:18)
Yeah.
Peter (27:19)
I can evaluate it because I made it and I know what I was trying to do, but for someone who just comes in, it's just as valid what they experience. Absolutely. Yeah. A which comes back to art, you know, being in the eye of the beholder, right? Like the pieces behind me, I wouldn't have known that you you did them after your parents passed like they're just very
Lonny Goldsmith (27:28)
And which comes back to art, you know, being the eye of the beholder, right? Like the pieces behind me. I wouldn't have known that you you did them after your parents passed. But like the they're just very
Lonny Goldsmith (27:42)
I mean, they're d fascinating pie I mean, and they're just so very different, you know, colorful versus a little more monochromatic. But again, that's I don't need to know the meaning behind it. Right. Right. That's and that's where, you know
Peter (27:44)
So very different, you know, colorful versus a little more monochromatic. Yeah. Yeah. But again, that yeah. I don't need to know the meaning behind it. Right, right. And that's and that's where, you know,
Peter (27:56)
for me, I don't it I don't know if something's successful or doesn't quite meet the mark. If but if someone can engage with it and they're interested in it, yeah. That works for me. That's the ball game, right? Yeah. If they can connect in some I that's where I guess all you're really hoping for, right? They just connect in some way with
Lonny Goldsmith (28:04)
Yeah. That's the ballgame, right? Yeah. If they can connect in some I mean, that's r I guess all you're really hoping for, right? They connect in some way with
Peter (28:11)
your work. Yeah, exactly.
Peter (28:13)
Yeah. Where can people find your stuff? I have a website, peterzelle.com. And I have galleries around the country. Like there's two in South Florida, there's one in Scottsdale, I've got a gallery in Dallas,
Lonny Goldsmith (28:14)
Where can people I have website? I have galleries around the country, like there's two in South Florida, Scottsdale, galleries.
Peter (28:30)
two in Colorado, kind of Vail Breckenridge. I'm just getting to the point where I'm gonna be, I gotta learn how to sell stuff online. Like
Lonny Goldsmith (28:35)
Just getting to the point where I'm gonna be like I gotta learn how to sell stuff
Peter (28:40)
It wouldn't hurt. I don't know if people are buying like twenty thousand dollars on sculptures online, but maybe two thousand
Lonny Goldsmith (28:40)
online. Like it wouldn't hurt buying like twenty thousand dollars cultures online, but maybe two thousand
Peter (28:45)
dollars sculptures online. Certainly two hundred. Yes. so I'm working towards doing that. but generally I do commission work. People find
Lonny Goldsmith (28:48)
Yes. so I'm working towards doing that. Generally I think fine.
Peter (28:54)
me on the internet. Awesome. And it's a great place for me. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So that's how people find my work. Excellent. Last couple questions before you end up back to work. First, what is your favorite
Lonny Goldsmith (28:56)
Awesome. The internet's a great place for them. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So that's how people find it. Excellent. Last couple questions for you and we'll let you get back to work. First, what is your favorite Jewish
Lonny Goldsmith (29:07)
holiday?
Peter (29:08)
Favorite Jewish holiday.
Peter (29:10)
It's good question. I mean, is it weird to say Yom Kippur? No. Plenty of people. I bet people are. Yeah, no, I I I do enjoy it. I like the break, and it's we stop what
Lonny Goldsmith (29:15)
No, not plenty of peop plenty of people do say young keeper. Yeah, no, I I I enjoy it. I I like it.
Peter (29:22)
we're doing. Yeah. You take a day, you sit, you go into nature, you go to temple, you do what you need to do to fill yourself back up. So let's go with that. What's your favorite Jewish
Lonny Goldsmith (29:31)
What's your favorite Jewish food?
Peter (29:32)
I mean, my grandma's good filter fish was great. I can't say anyone's quite.
Peter (29:37)
Match matched it, although my brother gets close some years. Really? Yeah, he does.
Lonny Goldsmith (29:37)
Max it although my brother gets close. Really? Yeah.
Peter (29:41)
And he does the whole thing from scratch. So that's that's committed. It's commits just gonna say that is committed. So I would go with the gefilter fish. that's an answer that borders on like hot take territory. wow, okay. All right, yeah. I really like I wouldn't say it's my favorite food, but and I'm not gonna put in the work yeah to make my own gefilte fish. But if somebody else wants to do it and and invite me over
Lonny Goldsmith (29:43)
Ooh, that's that's commitment. That is commitment. that's an answer that borders on like hot take territory on the show. We don't get that one a lot. I really like I wouldn't say it's my favorite food, but and I'm not gonna put in the work to make my own gefilter fish. But if somebody else wants to do it and and invite me over,
Lonny Goldsmith (30:03)
I wouldn't say no. It's Sunny Silverman's still from Okay. All right.
Peter (30:03)
Okay. Yeah. Yeah, no, and like, you know, and Sonny Silberman's wasn't the best. Like for me. All right.
Lonny Goldsmith (30:09)
Fantastic. Peter Zelle, we will have a link to your website and your Instagram and everything with the podcast and in the show notes. Thank you so much for having me in your studio. Your stuff is gorgeous and best of luck to you going forward. Thanks well. Thank you. Pleasure.
Peter (30:09)
Fantastic. Peter Zelle, we will have a link to your website and your Instagram and everything. podcast. And in the show notes. Thank you so much for having me in your studio. Your stuff is gorgeous. And best of luck to you going forward. Hey. Thanks a lot, Lonny. Thank you. Pleasure.
Lonny Goldsmith (30:24)
The Who the Folk Podcast is part of the Jewfolk Podcast Network, a product of Jewfolk Inc. Episodes are edited and produced by me, Lonnie Goldsmith, the editor in chief of Jewfolk. If you have suggestions for a great guest, send me an email at editor@jewfolk.com For more great Jewfolk podcasts, go to TCJewfolk.com/podcast.