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Get a seat at the table and build the design career you want. This podcast is for designers looking to break in, level up, and take control of their careers—whether you're freelancing, climbing the corporate ladder, or just trying to get noticed. Every two weeks, we dive into career fundamentals, design best practices, and the hottest topics in the design community.
Yeah. Yeah. Because that's how it works. If you give someone a little bit of value, they're they're very likely to say, wow. You know, you can do this.
Nick:Here's everything else. Can you do more of that?
Tyler:Yeah. You know? Yeah. I'll tell you like one thing that I do if I'm at a company at whether I'm the solo designer or like there's not a I noticed that there's not a lot of design influence or they don't have that maturity. One thing that I do that has like massive ROI is run is running.
Nick:And you're officially live. We're officially live. Exactly. I mean, this is just an experiment. Alright, Nick.
Tyler:So question for you. So I think we've all been there, and and a lot of designers in our industry have been there where they started a new company or they're engaged in a in a in a new contract where you're the only designer. And maybe you're the founding designer or, like, you're the new designer, but you're you're you're alone in a sea of maybe you're in a team of that's filled with engineers, PMs, product owners, and you're kind of having to set the tone of, like, what Yeah. Design means without a design culture in play. Have you been there?
Tyler:And what I'm looking for is maybe to start with some horror stories, and and then we can pivot into, like, how to maybe survive in that type of environment.
Nick:Yeah. Yeah. I've been there at least twice, saying saying at least because I have two projects that I can remember that I was the the the first or only designer. And I've always struggled, but it's also been a while. So I would think do things differently this time around.
Nick:Like, it was my second and third ever job, like, ten or eleven years ago where I was. So I I was only the first designer. I was also still a junior designer, and I think that's those two together only plus less experience, that's a real tough battle to play as a designer. So yeah. How about yourself?
Nick:Because I know you're currently, you are not the only designer at your company.
Tyler:No. It's actually probably the first time that I am in a sea of other designers, so that's I mean, it's a different thing to navigate.
Nick:Yeah.
Tyler:But I've been I I think I've been the only designer once once. So I'd come in as, like, the the company had, like, a product on the shelf and the but they're opening up a new product line, like, new flagship product. So they hired me as, like, the the founding designer to kind of launch that new product from zero to one. Mhmm. Didn't they they already kind of started to kind of build it.
Tyler:The PM was playing was playing designer to the best of his abilities, but it was clear that there was a gap that design needed to kinda fill. Yeah. Yeah. So I just kinda started there. And when you start of the as, like, the sole design, you wanna do everything at once.
Tyler:Like, you wanna do let's make sure that this design process is here. We do the research. We have using the design system. We're we're doing all things right. But in reality, that's never the case.
Tyler:Like, it's very hard to kind of push everything down the gate. Yeah. Yeah. So what I what I did actually was I saw problem number one is that they didn't have the design handoff was broken, obviously, as the PM was doing that role. Step one, there was it was basically just, like, presenting design in in in the correct way and incorporating engineering at the beginning of projects so that they didn't get a ta da, build it.
Tyler:They just Yeah. They'll get a sneak peek as, like, the first step and then incrementally adding things over time.
Nick:Right. So what what you're saying, what I think I'm hearing is that you're giving two examples of improving the way of working around design.
Tyler:Yeah. Exactly.
Nick:Yeah. Is that the first thing you you like, if like, let's say someone's listening to this episode and they're they start a you know, when this episode comes out, it's, you know, it's it's around April. So let's say someone listening to this episode in May, they are going to start their new job there that they know they will be the only designer, and they're listening to this episode a bit nervous.
Tyler:Like Mhmm.
Nick:Oh, how am I going to handle this? How I'm going to survive this? They're looking for a bit of how to do your first one hundred days. Are you saying that one of the first things they should do is to look at the current way of working and see where the gaps are, see if they can improve it, like, add design to the mix?
Tyler:Yeah. I think it's looking at it depends on, like, where you are in, like, your design career. But I think what's the goal is to look at what the current state is today. Look at what your ideal state might be, and then realizing that it's the goal might be for that first six to nine days is to meet in the middle. Right.
Tyler:And realize that you may not get to that 100%, but, like, a good win is getting at least bridging between, like, current and ideal. Right. And I think also what I think what's hard is that typically when you're designing and you're presenting, your your first instinct is to present the aesthetic part of the design y stuff. Like, cool. This is this is how I crafted the aesthetic, line spacing, typography, gestalt, etcetera.
Tyler:Yeah. Your it can feel lonely sometimes, but what you really should be doing is presenting in the manner or using the language of the person that you're presenting to. So whether that's Yeah. The PM, like, just talking in business language, the goal of the feature, etcetera, or it's engineering. Talk about constraints and different flows and different edge cases that you're thinking about versus I've I've come into that mistake where I'm presenting aesthetic, and it just falls on Death's ears.
Tyler:Like, no one cares. Like, I'm the only one who has who cares about that part. I I think that's fine. Yeah. That's one thing to think about.
Nick:Yeah. I think that's true. You know, one thing I would do perhaps even before or in parallel to, you know, looking at the process, what you're saying is that the company should at least know that you exist. You know, sounds a bit rough perhaps, but especially if you are the only designer in a company of, let's say, 30 people.
Tyler:Mhmm.
Nick:And there might be an announcement somewhere, not everyone's going to read it because, you know, full inbox, vacation, sickness, etcetera.
Tyler:Yep.
Nick:So on the first day, I would go and shake a lot of hands, figure out who my stakeholders are or my collaborators, who my team is, and sched schedule get to know you calls with all of them. And you don't have to schedule them all on the same day. But let's say in your first two weeks, you should have a have had a one on one moment with anyone that's is going to have a say on your work or someone that you're going to work with. Mhmm. But I think that's super important.
Nick:And then the second thing is they didn't have a designer before. You are you are the first designer. So something changed. Like, someone wanted to have a designer or someone ran into an issue and were like, wow. We really need a designer.
Nick:It's crucial to figure out what that reason is. Like, I don't want to make it too philosophical, but, you know, why am I here? You know, that's that's super important to know. And then I would focus the the process made in the middle thing, what you said on that part. Like, if they're like if they're saying like, well, we get a bunch of red flags from users.
Nick:They are all telling us that everything looks slightly different, and they are confused. Yeah. You know? Maybe that's the reason they hired you. That's the reason I've been hired somewhere as the only designer.
Nick:So this is like a real thing that happened. Like, users tell us we don't get it, and we don't know how to solve it. Yeah. You know? Refocus on that.
Nick:See, like, why did that happen? Like, what's the process there? Did they just ship? Did they just, you know, build it and sign it as they as they are building it like you you mentioned or something else? You know, figure that out because then you show value.
Nick:They you show that it's it been it's been the good call to hire a designer, you know, ROI and that kind of stuff.
Tyler:That's interesting. Can you kind of double click on, like, booking call with everyone in the companies to show that you exist? What like, if practically, if you're a junior or, like, a designer joining a new company, what should that conversation look like? What should they be saying? You kinda touched on it briefly, but, like, if you were to give someone, like, a playbook, what should they be talking about in those one on ones?
Nick:I would if it's in office work, like, you're in the room, I would just walk up to the person, introduce yourself. They are busy, so they do not have time for a thirty minute chat Yep. You know, on the spot. So say who you are, you're new here, and express interest. You know?
Nick:Hey. We're going going probably going to work together. I'm curious what you're working on. Do you have time to, you know, to, you know, get a coffee, you know, have lunch in the company cafeteria or something in the next week? And then the majority of people will be very flattered, like, wow.
Nick:This new person is showing interest in my work. Finally, someone's showing interest in my work in a in a sad case. They are very likely to say yes. So that's the starting point. And Yeah.
Nick:What I just mentioned that you can say face to face is also what you put in an email. Hello. I'm new here. What are you working on? Curious to learn more about you.
Nick:Do you have time for it yet? Simple email. So that's how you get them to talk to you, and then you basically repeat the same question during that meeting. You know, I always like to only have the starting point scripted, and then depending on what they say, you figure things out as you go because, you know, some people, they talk, and you just have to to put in a coin, and then they keep talking forever and ever.
Tyler:Yeah.
Nick:But some people don't talk at all. You really have to keep asking them questions. So that being said, it's like, you cannot script the whole conversation. So only script the beginning, ask them about what they're doing, their struggles, and listen. Listen to them.
Nick:They will like, if they say something twice, it means that it's something that means something to them. You know? So I don't know which episode we talked about this, but, you know, see if you can figure out, like, the thing that moves them. Like, what what do they find annoying? Like, well, this this developer thinks he can design, but it looks like like my nephew made it, or this designer is taking too long.
Nick:Like, all we're doing is waiting on his research. You know, if if you hear something like that, you know, you you know that it's something that he finds annoying and that's an in for you to show you that you can do it better. And, you that's know, the politics game. I'm rambling a little bit now, but I'm almost done. You know, that's the politics game to get people in your camp.
Nick:You know? Because it's the designer versus everyone else. Yep. But you need, like, the one versus 30. You need to get it to 15 for 16 versus 15.
Nick:You know, you need to get people in your camp. And the introduction calls are the first step towards it, period. And the brand.
Tyler:That's good. It's good. It's yeah. Similar to what, like, my strategy as well. I remember at that company where I was the only designer there, like, I did book calls with everyone.
Tyler:Mhmm. But if I would double click on, like I was focused initially on the engineering team, and I asked them but it's similar to what you're saying, but basically, I'm curious what you do, what team you're working on. I'm this is this is how I used to work. I'm curious how things are today and and what are some of the pain points that you're dealing with that I can help Yeah. Remove.
Tyler:And then if you do that with every engineer, you get the, to your point, the patterns. And it's like, okay. I Yeah. Fix if I fix these top three things, I'll be in their good graces. So you're showing value before you ask Yeah.
Tyler:For the thing that you need.
Nick:Yeah. Yeah. Because that's how it works. If you give someone a little bit of value, they're they're very likely to say, wow. You can do this.
Nick:Here's everything else. Can you do more of that? Yep. You know? I really like what by by the way, I think it's really funny when you say, like, let's double click on that.
Nick:Like, I I think that's very in context. It makes a lot of sense for us working on software. Anyway A phrase of middle. Phrase of the week. Yeah.
Nick:Did you come up with that, or is that just something everyone knows but me?
Tyler:No. I've been we're watching a lot of, like, sales training, and then that work keeps coming up. Like, can I can you double click on that? Seems like a a sales phrase that I just picked out this week.
Nick:Oh, I like it less. Anyway, I I think that's something many people struggle with. What I actually wanted to say before I got distracted by your double click phrase is earlier this episode, you said you cannot go all the way right away. You have to meet in the middle first. I know this had a lot of people, you know, a lot of entry level designers that I talk to.
Nick:They have this perfect end goal in mind, and then everything they can do that's not that end goal yet, they dismiss it because it's not perfect. They they're they're looking at you with with big eyes and and, like, eye opener, like, this magic moment for them when you tell them, like, you can use stepping stones along the way. You can do things that aren't final. They are temporarily they are just a way to get there. They're like, yeah.
Nick:I didn't think about it that way. And this is not this is not meant to bash anyone. This is just, you know, a a pattern that I'm seeing. You know, it's okay to take, you know, baby steps as long as they are in to the right direction. I don't care how big the step is.
Nick:You know, it's just Yeah. Slowly slowly getting there.
Tyler:Those incremental win like, they're wins. So, like, baby steps are individual wins that
Nick:you can
Tyler:kinda like, okay. I did that thing. It's not it may not be, like, your end state, but, like, would I would pat myself on the back saying I got that small incremental win. Yep. Our process is slightly evolving month to month or year to year, and we'll get there.
Tyler:But it's it's better than it was before I started.
Nick:Yeah. Yeah. True. How about you know, you you mentioned presenting the the aesthetic as perhaps not being the ideal thing to do. Right?
Nick:That's that's At some point, Like, I I think it can be part of the thing you're doing, especially if you are joining, if you're new and everything looks like it's been designed by a nondesigner.
Tyler:Yeah. Like, if you
Nick:can have a before and after, like, before being current and after being your improved version, and if it's, like, night and day difference, I think then it's okay to present aesthetic, at least a little bit, as long as a nondesigner can you know, everyone can see that it's indeed better the way you're designing.
Tyler:Yeah. I'll tell you, like, one thing that I do if I'm if I'm at a company at whether I'm the solo designer or, like, there's not a I noticed that there's not a lot of design influence, so they don't have that maturity. One thing that I do that has, like, massive ROI is run is running internal usability studies outside of product management and engineering. Like, do it with, like, legal, with sales, with customer success. What I do is when I'm working on a feature and then I wanna test a couple concepts, or even if I don't want to, I just make up a a shitty v two.
Tyler:But the goal but what I'll do is, like, in Slack, I'll go, hey. I'm writing a a usability study looking for five five to eight volunteers. Max, send me a message in the DM, and then I can book a session with you. Part of that is urgency and capping. Like, I theoretically can run fifteen, twenty different usability studies, but I'm capping I'm capping it at eight.
Tyler:Mhmm. So, like like, it looks like it's limited supply. So it feels like I'm more valuable than than I am. But if I run that usability study with them, they see they get a sense like, oh, this is what this design person does. Yep.
Tyler:And then whenever they double click on, like to use that word again, whenever they, like, mention something aesthetic, that's the opportunity that I take to kind of maybe push a bit further and and describe, yes. This is actually, like, this is, like, a UX principle that I deployed here. This is why I designed it a certain way. So, like, first, I'm just showing, like, why or, like, the goal of the feature. And then if they if they pinpoint something, I'll use that as, like, a learning mechanism.
Tyler:Like, here here's Yeah. What here's what I do kinda thing. Yeah. And once you do that once a while, like, every every if you do that every time you launch a feature and you cap that at eight, like, you become, like, this commodity. It's like, oh, I couldn't.
Tyler:Sorry. I was late on Slack. I I didn't have a chance. Like, oh, well, I'll put you at the top of the list next time.
Nick:Next time. Yeah.
Tyler:Yeah. And then and then they become, like you can become very popular because you're doing this this new thing that they're not familiar with. But they really wanna test it out, especially the the the sales team. They want, like, first steps, but Yeah. You gotta respond quickly.
Nick:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Nick:You should have, like, you should have a booking link, and you should five code some sort of 10 people are looking at this slot right now type banner in the corner.
Tyler:Oh, really? Just some CRO
Nick:Go full. Yeah. Go go full dark pattern. Do how about and and I really hate this word. Maybe I should have a list of words I don't like.
Nick:But from my my corporate days, you they had multiple metrics of how they would grade and and review employees. And one of the the important great one of the important metrics was internal visibility. Like, how much are you showing of yourself Yeah. You know, to your colleagues. But with today's wisdom and, you know, having been away from that corporation for quite a while now, I think that there's a in its core, it makes sense, especially if you are the only designer in a company.
Tyler:Mhmm.
Nick:So at a small scale, you are, like, you are inviting people to get to know you, and you get to and for you to get to know them. But at a larger scale, you know, you need perhaps to have a monthly newsletter internal where you just send perhaps the results of those usability studies or, you know, anything ROI related or, you know, just design related stuff where you show everyone in the company what you've done. You know, that's perhaps also a good thing to do. Like, have have you ever done something like that, or would you recommend someone to do it? Or what do you think?
Tyler:Yeah. I think I would rec I haven't done that. That's a really good tip. Like, do publish the results. And that could just be, like, if you have the results in, like, a Confluence document or a Notion document, just share it out or just, like, record a Loom thing.
Tyler:Here's thank you to
Nick:Yeah.
Tyler:John's simple. Here's the results. Thank you for your feedback. And then upsell the next the next Yeah. Usability study.
Tyler:But, like, that's a skill in itself. Like like, they're we mentioned it before, like, in a previous episode. Like, the thing that you're good at, like, if you're if you become a 10 out of 10 designer that doesn't that doesn't push the needle in terms of, like, your career progression, part of it is, like, the politics game. So the more to your point, the more visible you are, the more it it looks like you're kind of active, whether that's probably more specifically beneficial if you're remote. Like, if you're more active in Slack channels, if you're doing one on ones with different people, those relationships sort of like that that policy scheme push it is gives you more ROI than just being good at the hard skills.
Tyler:Yeah. True.
Nick:True. That it sounds a bit annoying, but they have to like you, yeah, in a biz in a while. You know, what what happened to me recently, and I think that was a great sign of progress, basically, is that I got a message from a developer where he told me, like, hey, Nick. Here's what we're currently working on. Here's our challenge.
Nick:And the founder told me to involve you. What do you think? And that for me was a very good sign for all the things that we've said this episode. They know I exist. They know where to find me, and, you know, they want my involvement because they've seen my ROI, so to speak, before.
Nick:So they know, like, if we involve this person, this designer, it's going to be a, you know, a positive for us. Like, you know what he's talking about. He's proven it before. Let's just involve him and not not do it on our own. So, yeah, if you get that sign, if you can can see that happen, you know, I think that's an example of a sign that tells you that you're doing a good job as the only designer at the company.
Tyler:It is. Because you've you've shown and that's just anything. You've shown that you're able to do you excel at these five different things, and then it's known across the company. They'll if a problem comes down the pipeline, they're gonna call, hey. Nick's good at this.
Tyler:Let's Mhmm. Into your example. Let's bring him in because he's he's he's really good. He'll give us value there.
Nick:Yeah. Let let me let me ask you something, what you would do in a particular situation. So let's say you are the only designer at a company, and you are a of the UX brand. So you are a UX designer at a company. That and, you know, no generalists or five coding or shipping or anything.
Nick:You're a pure as pure as it gets, you are like an old school traditional UX designer. Founder comes your way, and he tells you, Tyler, we need a few of these these marketing slides, like, for for a slide deck. Will you will you do that, or will you say, no. That's not my role.
Tyler:Yeah. No. I think I would take I would take that up. It's in, like, I hate slide decks, like, with a passion. Like, if you get me to do a slide deck, it'll be good, but I dread every moment of it.
Tyler:But, like, the benefit is you get some one on one time with that person, And then you get the benefit is not I I can maybe I'm not I I do this slide deck. It's not it's outside of my job description, but your brand is kind of pushed. Like, you're this person is useful. He doesn't just do this one thing. He he's kind of a journalist, but he's just Yeah.
Tyler:It it more shows that you're a team player. Yeah. That you can help out where you what's needed. You just don't do your thing and then be that this is a very Canadian reference, but if you're in Walmart and it's not my section and you're sure you're trying you're a customer looking for help and like, hey. Do you know where the shoes are?
Tyler:I said, sorry. This is not my section. Go that way. That person no. Can't you this store isn't that big.
Tyler:Can you just tell me where
Nick:the thing is? Yeah. I I think that's really funny. Makes me think about grocery stores, and I know our grocery stores are way smaller than yours. Yeah.
Nick:I mean I mean, reason I'm asking is because I've been part of, yet again, of another Reddit discussion where I was the minority with my answer. Now most people were saying, like, no. It's not your job. It's yet another founder trying to find two people in one person, you know, two salaries in one person. Like, they're just cheap.
Nick:Tell them to go find a slide deck designer. You're not going to do it. And many upvotes and everyone agreed, but then I and my answer was similar to yours. I didn't even think about showing that you're a team player, you know, getting one on one time. Like, all I thought about was you are showing value.
Nick:You know, you can do this thing the next time. They they will come to you with more things because you've they've asked and you've delivered. Like, that's a good thing. Yeah. You are in a positive space in their mind.
Nick:Yeah. That's enough reason to to do it because you will get more a better seat at the table because of it. Yeah. But what you're saying perhaps is even more important, you know, the one on one time and the Yeah. It's just like they perceive you.
Nick:So Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's super important. So that's also part of the playbook for the only designer at a at a company.
Nick:Like, put your hands on things that you like, how how do you say it? Like, if you can get your hands on a design job, even though it's not perfectly aligned with what you're doing, just take your your chances because it will be good for you and be because it will get you closer to doing the design stuff that you want to do.
Tyler:Exactly. And and, like, also, like, this extra context. Like, if I'm the UX designer and then I get pulled into a slide deck, I'm interacting with marketing and sales. And marketing has the pulse on, like, the IPC, like, the the the persona that you're targeting, and then sales is talking with your customers. So that just like if you if you bring some of that that information back to your day to day work, it's only beneficial.
Nick:Yes. I think so. I think so. Maybe to to wrap things up just out of curiosity, and I will be I will tell also, like, what happened to your job where you were, you know, the one where you were the only designer?
Tyler:I think it was the all yeah. I was the only designer for what, like, the three and a half years I was there. Mhmm. So I moved on. So
Nick:Oh, you moved on. Okay.
Tyler:Yeah. Which it's it's I think what I think what was hard for me, I think, was how do you at at certain points, like, you're fast, you get better at your job, how do you then advocate for like, to grow the team when you're the only one? When you have to like, part of that job is, like, showing that you personally have value and then ladder up that design has value. And then the next stage is we need more Yeah. We need more capacity of the team because there's
Nick:There's more to do.
Tyler:There's there's more to do. Exactly.
Nick:Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. So you left in a good way. Like, you decided to go somewhere else.
Nick:Okay. You know, I I I said, like, that I've been the only designer in two cases, but I remembered there's three. So the first one was my very first job out of school. Company got acquired, and I was the last one in. So I had the the easiest contract that I could get rid of.
Nick:I was a you know, they they kicked me out because they had too many people post acquisition, you know, and, you know, they let go of the cheapest people with the less least amount of time in the company. So bit of a bad luck. I did enjoy my time there because I had a very design first manager. You know, he really
Tyler:That's good.
Nick:He wasn't, yeah, wasn't a designer, but he really was pro design. He knew the value. You had your champion. That's good. I had my champion on, like, that mid level and slightly above managerial level, so that that's been really helpful.
Nick:Second one was a startup ran out of money. I, you know, didn't find investors. And the third one, we agreed to not extend my contract because none of us were really happy. You know, I I got brought in by a manager who wants to build a design team, and then didn't really work out. So then the dead manager left, and I was there without the manager that really want wants to bring me in, and that it just didn't it didn't vibe anymore.
Nick:You know? So I didn't really want to be there anymore. They didn't want really want to have a designer there. Then because of those three experiences, I wanted to move somewhere as not the only designer. So the next job I went into was a large company, 6,000 people, but they had a, I think, a design studio of around 40 people.
Nick:So I could really learn from other designers on the job every day. I felt like I really needed that. So battle hardened, I would say, as the only designer in multiple companies.
Tyler:Yeah. I think that's why I I'm where I am. I wanted to be part of a team of larger designers. Actually, it reminds me. I actually maybe I forgot about it because it was a it it was mentally taxing, but actually, there was actually two companies that I worked for where I was the solo designer.
Tyler:Funny story, actually, I was hired by it was in fintech. It was I was hired by the the VP of product. Mhmm. They were I think they had they had a designer, but he was contract, but they wanted someone full time. Yeah.
Tyler:I started my first week and on the fourth day, the person who
Nick:I who had hired me, the VP
Tyler:of product, quit. And and they would it was one of those companies where I was, like, first one in, first one out, but, like, they were it wasn't stable situation that I was coming into.
Nick:Right.
Tyler:The benefits, like, are harking back to your other point. Because he left, I had to assume PM role. So I was a hybrid product manager and designer, which, you know, not part of my job description so much so that the the CEO introduced me sometimes as the PM instead of the designer. But, like, not my job, but also I did it anyways. And then it's it's like a skill set that I carry me I carry with me, like, today.
Tyler:Like, I found that it was, like, wasn't the thing, but, like, beneficial that I had that context, and I I was able to flex that muscle because I I continue to flex it today.
Nick:Yeah. So it's it's sucked in the short run, but it's been really beneficial in the long run. Sort sort of a trial by fire. Like, you sink or swim. Like, you had to do it.
Tyler:Yep. Yeah. Exactly. Okay.
Nick:You know, that's what I like about this show. Like, everything we're saying is based on, like, real experience. It's not just something that I found that we found online and asked Chad GPT to, you know, reformat into our own voice and then still sound generic. You know, it's real experience what we're talking about.
Tyler:Big suck. Yeah. There's too much of that stuff going around. Yeah.
Nick:Yeah. Perhaps an episode at some point for us to really share our horror stories, you know, really get it out of our system.
Tyler:That would have been plenty. So that'd be an action packed.
Nick:Me too. Me too. Yeah. Yeah. Lots of angry people.
Nick:Anyway, I I think this is a good playbook. I think we've been very specific here
Tyler:Yep.
Nick:Right, with things to do in the beginning and how to make your your solo adventure as a solo designer a success. Yeah. I don't have any closing thoughts. I think I just shared them.
Tyler:Perfect. Yeah. Do we maybe wanna tease next episode?
Nick:Sure. Let me
Tyler:I love a good teaser.
Nick:Bring up the well, you know, I think the next one is very interesting. I I think it relates to what we're talking about. So let's say you're the solo designer, only designer at the company. You think things are going well, and suddenly, you get an email, a meeting invite by a manager. No message, only a subject line, and it says, we have to talk.
Tyler:That you know what line.
Nick:Yeah. Yeah. You know where that's going. You are going to be invited into the the employee transitioning room. On a more serious note, you just lost your job.
Nick:What to do next? And I have to admit that happened to me in the early stages of my career more often than I would have liked. So a few real battle stories there for sure, and can wait to hear yours if you have any
Tyler:Yeah.
Nick:By the way.
Tyler:Yes. Of course. Yeah. I think it would be good good teaser and also really beneficial to kind of help people navigate those situations.
Nick:Yep. Yep. I'll think about it already, and then we'll we'll discuss next time. Alright. Alright.
Nick:See you then.
Tyler:See you then. That was a great episode. So if you like this content and wanna hear more, please like and subscribe.
Nick:Yeah. And if you want to see more, please go to designtablepodcast.com, Spotify, Apple Music, all the big players, and more.