Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
John Bower and Jeremy Pace join Zach this week to talk about what it's like to do ministry together and why it's important to have people supporting you and filling you up while you are pouring into others.
Show Notes
John Bower and Jeremy Pace join Zach this week to talk about what it's like to do ministry together and why it's important to have people supporting you and filling you up while you are pouring into others.
Anchored Collective:
https://www.anchoredcollective.org
Christ City Church:
https://www.christcity.life
Normandy Church:
https://normandychurch.com
Purchase the You Can Mentor book:
You Can Mentor: How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission, and Break Generational Curses
youcanmentor.com
Anchored Collective:
https://www.anchoredcollective.org
Christ City Church:
https://www.christcity.life
Normandy Church:
https://normandychurch.com
Purchase the You Can Mentor book:
You Can Mentor: How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission, and Break Generational Curses
youcanmentor.com
Creators and Guests
What is You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast?
You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.
We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to hello@youcanmentor.com, and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.
Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.
You can mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships with kids from hard places in the name of Jesus. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others. You can mentor.
Speaker 2:What's up mentor and mentoring leaders? I want to share with you guys some exciting information we got. You Can Mentor has released a book. It's entitled, You Can Mentor. How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission, and Break Generational Curses.
Speaker 2:The purpose behind this book is to train up more mentors and more mentoring leaders to effectively disciple the next generation through mentoring. If you will, please go purchase a book on our website. You can find it on Amazon. If you go to Amazon, leave a 5 star review. That helps us out a ton.
Speaker 2:If you're a mentoring organization and you want multiple copies, holler at us, and we will give you guys a deal. You can find out more information on the You Can Mentor website. Go pick up that book, You Can Mentor. What up, mentors? Zach Garza here.
Speaker 2:Hey. I wanted to share about this episode that you're about to listen to. Today's guest is Jon Bauer and Jeremy Pace, both of whom are in ministry here in the Dallas area. And they've created this thing to help remove aloneness, remove isolation in the field of of ministry. Whenever you do ministry, it's really hard to do it by yourself.
Speaker 2:You've gotta have a support system. You've gotta have a team. You've gotta have people who are investing into you, so you can go out and invest into others. John and Jeremy about what they do to make sure that they're receiving the support they need to mentor and do ministry for the long haul. So, hey, enjoy it.
Speaker 2:If you liked what you heard on this podcast today, share it, rate it, Find a friend and toss it to them via text. Whatever you gotta do to spread the word. Remember this, you can mentor. Hey, guys. How's it going today?
Speaker 2:My name is Zachary Garza. I'm here with Jon Bauer. Jon, say hi.
Speaker 3:Hey.
Speaker 2:And Jeremy Pace. Hey. Wow. You guys are you guys are full of life today. And today we're talking about doing ministry together.
Speaker 2:We're talking about why it is not only important, but in my opinion, essential that you have people supporting you, you have people filling you up as you pour out, as you mentor and you do God's work. So Jon Bauer, introduce yourself, tell the folks about you, what's going on.
Speaker 3:What's up, Zill? Hello, Pace. Like you said, my name is John. I'm a pastor and, here in Dallas in Lake Highlands, Texas. I've been doing that for 11, 12 years or so.
Speaker 3:Got 5 kiddos. 5. Wow. I'm not a Mormon pastor but I get asked that a lot. But live here in the area known Garza for a while, known Jeremy, just a little bit shorter time frame than that.
Speaker 3:But, yeah man, 10, 12 years as a pastor or something like that and, yeah, loving it.
Speaker 2:Great. Why don't you tell people about us?
Speaker 3:About us?
Speaker 2:Yeah. About me and you.
Speaker 3:Garza and I have a multifaceted relationship. He's tall, I'm short. I have golly, I don't know what it was, probably 8 years ago, something like that. I met you farther back 12
Speaker 2:years ago.
Speaker 3:12 years ago. Good gracious. Anyway, prior to
Speaker 2:us 15 years ago almost. Are you serious? Yeah. 2007.
Speaker 3:Dude, COVID and having twins at my age makes everything seem wonky as far as the time frame goes. But we're at Antioch Dallas, my wife and I just gotten married somewhere along those times, I think. But anyway, I met Garza at kind of like a party that we had for a bible study that we had started before thanksgiving and he stood out mainly because he's 68 and, just just reached out to him. Wasn't in ministry at the time, I wasn't and just tried to get a coffee with him and it was really I was really passionate about discipleship and reaching out to different guys and helping them know Jesus wherever they were in their walk with him. And anyway, we were at a different church prior to starting our ministry and I've been discipling a guy by the name of John Kayserman and John began meeting with Garza really regularly and I did as well.
Speaker 3:And we're real passionate about that second Timothy 22 thing. So it's like, man, you have learned something, go teach it to somebody else who can teach someone else also. And so Garza and I have a really long relationship full of lots of highs, lots of lows. I think we've seen each other both at our best moments and our worst moments. We've been there for each other.
Speaker 3:It's been it's been awesome actually. So is that a good summation of it? Awesome. Garza would flex on me in basketball games where he would swap my shots. He'd point out how awkward and bow legged I was, and then he beat me in Techmo Bowls and never let me live it down.
Speaker 3:But other than that, I would say it's been mutually beneficial. I would say there's a lot of Koinonia in our relationship.
Speaker 2:Yes. Koinonia indeed, Bauer. Now it is no it isn't a lie that there's no way that I would be here if it wasn't for Jon Bauer, so
Speaker 3:Thank you, friend.
Speaker 2:And he's told me he's telling me a lot about mentoring. So so, Pace, why don't you tell us about yourself, where you come from, your family, your church, all that good stuff.
Speaker 4:Yeah. I'm as you'll find out really quickly, John's gonna be the funny entertaining one and I'll just be just the straight dry one in the in the interview. So
Speaker 2:I would say more wise, discerning, mature. That's Sure.
Speaker 4:Yeah. We can go with that. Whatever you wanna fluff it up, you know, that's great.
Speaker 3:If you guys want some cheese, you're gonna need it for his crackers. Kinda salty.
Speaker 4:Like John I too, am a pastor here in East Dallas. We we moved from Seattle, Washington back to Texas about 8 years ago to start a little faith family called Christ City Church And so we all kind of live here in the area, I think we all ran into each other at different coffee shops and that's how we all got to know each other to some degree. Honestly that's kind of even what we're talking about today, that's kinda how how it all got started is is at local coffee shops. But but married, a little over 15 years, have I have twins also but mine are a little older, sleeping, actually taking care of themselves to some degree. So John will get there someday but he's got a long road to go.
Speaker 2:Right. Alright, guys. Hey, so why why I've got these 2 guys here is because they're doing something that I think is just absolutely amazing. Anyone who's been doing the work of the lord for a long time knows that at times it can be isolate. Isolating?
Speaker 4:Yeah. Lonely.
Speaker 2:Lonely. It can be lonely. I mean, it is hard to do the work of the lord. It's hard to pour out. And if you don't have people surrounding you, if you don't have friends, then in my opinion, you're just not gonna last long.
Speaker 2:And there's a high tendency for burnout that enemies coming after you, and you've gotta have people that you're surrounding yourselves with who can encourage you, support you, do all of that good stuff. So so these guys have have created something that I believe is is amazing, and I want y'all to share about it today on this podcast so that other people can hear about it. And if they like what you guys say, if they want community support, then they can take what y'all have and they can create it themselves. Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 2:So so tell us about Anchored. Tell us why it started, tell us what was the need and how did this become the solution?
Speaker 4:Yeah. So when we moved into the area, again about 8 years ago, the Lord kind of pressed upon at least at least my heart that the reality that where we're going, he already was. So that there are already faithful people ministering in that context, that there were men and women who were following Jesus and seeking to invite others to follow Jesus and so more than anything, just wanted to honor that and just be aware of that. And if you know anything about East Dallas, if you go into a coffee shop at any given given day, you'll probably run into 3 or 4 people who are doing ministry, in the area and it becomes pretty evident that you're that you're not alone in ministry, just by keeping your eyes open. And and so what started honestly was just we were running to each other in different places.
Speaker 4:There's a handful of us, different ministers and leaders and pastors. And so we just started to invite one another to lunch and really just kinda created basically a once a month lunch. But the the stipulation was this because I'm sure this is true for most people in in any sort of ministry. But we love to talk shop. We're passionate about what we're doing and why we're doing it and how we're doing it and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 4:But to the to the Lord's glory and his credit, we said at the very beginning, that we won't talk shop. That we come together because of Jesus, and that we wanna see Jesus in one another, draw Jesus out of one another, and encourage one another to be faithful to to holding fast to Jesus and proclaiming Jesus in the ministry that he's given us and the context he's given us in the in the way that he's actually shaped us to do it and we believe that's not in competition but in compliment. And so so in order for us to to not just like kind of give a head nod to that because we would all say, oh yeah, we're in this together in the kingdom but the reality is we're all human, we're all flesh, we all tend to compare and contrast ourselves to one another. So really the only way to kind of get through our fleshliness into actual relationship was just to to get into a context together where we could pray together, where we could eat together, where we could laugh together, where we could mourn together, all around the idea of that Jesus has drawn us into this space and time and into relationship with one another.
Speaker 4:And then ask him to just develop a friendship that would birth out of that. And that started almost 7 years ago and so it didn't formally become the anchor collective until John got a tattoo. And so probably it's probably almost 3 years ago now that that that John at the time we didn't know but had selfishly already planned an anchor tattoo on himself. And so when we were kind of getting our our little, you know, a couple times a year some of us will get together who's kinda organized this over the years and just say, hey, what's the next 6 months look like? What do we wanna do?
Speaker 4:How do we wanna encourage the ministers within our group to be faithful to their calling, faithful to where God's placed them in? And and and said, well, hey, maybe we need to give a name to this. And again, so John kinda came up with the name. False.
Speaker 3:Keep going.
Speaker 4:No. It's it's absolutely true. And and again, it's because the tattoo already existed or was in in in process of existing so if we'd go in a different direction he would have to change his, you know, his tattoo plans. But but no, the idea is that we're anchored to to the ministry God's called us to, to the place that we're in, to one another but ultimately to Jesus. And that's what really draws us in and what what holds us together.
Speaker 4:And so while there's a whole variety of of ministry going on within this group, so there's I mean if you just look at the churches represented, I think there's 9 or 10 denominations, multiple ethnicities, different philosophies of ministry and all that kind of stuff. But in the end, we all come together around Jesus and as the one who anchors us into our calling, our vocation and into really friendship with one another. And so so in a nutshell, yeah, that's kind of what Anchored is. It started honestly just with an awareness that God was already active and that we wanted to be ones who participated fully and faithfully in what God was already doing in our context, which meant that we were gonna get to do ministry with others. But the doing ministry with others really for the long call like you like you said, really was contingent on us actually being friends.
Speaker 4:And the friendship had to start with like a mutual love for Jesus and a love for Jesus in one another and and from there, I think it sparked a lot of beautiful things, but
Speaker 2:That's awesome, PACE. So I John, I really want to hear how Anchored has impacted your life, but before I do that, I just wanna so the 50,000 foot view of Anchored is a bunch of people who do ministry come together once a month for about an hour and a half and they share a meal Mhmm. And they laugh and they become friends and support each other as they do the Lord's work. It's not about competition. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:It's about saying we're all on the same team, and we're gonna do whatever we can to help you promote the name of Jesus, not necessarily the name of your ministry or your church. And so I just love that because so often we can get in competition. Okay. I I need to serve more kids or I need to have, you know, a bigger budget or bigger building. And what you guys are saying is no, it's it's not about that at all, but instead it's about promoting the name of Jesus.
Speaker 2:And anything that I can do to help you do that, I wanna make it happen.
Speaker 4:Yeah. And listen, like, there's there's a reality of our differences are needed within the kingdom. Right? Like, we all have different kind of visions and desires and those aren't bad things, those are actually really important things. But those things tend to not draw us together, those things tend to, in our flesh, just separate us.
Speaker 4:But what brings us together is truly an affection for Jesus, that we're after Jesus together, that Jesus actually indwells all of us and empowers all of us to do the ministry that we're doing. And so at the 50,000 foot view, it really is that simple. It really is a monthly lunch where we've intentionally said we won't talk shop, where all we'll do is we'll laugh. I mean, like you'll hear it on this, like the sarcasm is our maybe our only language, it's definitely our love language but there is a lot of laughter because we need a space to kind of to decompress that's safe, that other people who may not do it exactly like we do but are doing what we do to some degree. That we can we can just we can just kind of relax and be put down our guards for a minute, we can eat together sharing stories of what's going on in life, all that kind of stuff, but we can also minister to one another.
Speaker 4:We can pray together for what's what the ministry that we're doing, but we can also in moments like this past month where one of, the members of the group got some really hard news from a health perspective and we were just able to lay hands and pray, ask for healing, do all those kind of things in the moment because we're all there and we're with him and we're for him and we want the same thing out of his life that he wants out of his life which is to glorify Jesus. And so despite our differences we're able to come together in it. And then what we say and we and I think this is important because for those who might want to replicate it, like we we do say that you can quote unquote do things together, like I think sometimes we think about doing ministry together, we we go to the practical, the pragmatic, the what events can we put together, what what outreach can we do, what, you know, so and those are those are all beautiful things and those things have come out of relationships in the Anchored Collective, but they don't the Anchored Collective doesn't exist to start those things.
Speaker 4:It exists to be this kind of really just to cultivate relationships where like true together ministry can be birthed, where friendships can lead into the practical things. And so so we say at every lunch that we get together, we we joke about the the the reality of our of our sarcasm, we proclaim the name of Jesus is what unites us and then we say for this to mean anything to you other than just a space to laugh, to eat and to be prayed for, it requires you to develop friendship outside of this. And so because in the end, ministry together really is about walking with Jesus side by side, following Jesus together which is just gonna require relationship more than more than anything else, more than the pragmatics, more than the the philosophy of ministry on the same page or anything like that. It really is going to require like what Jesus says, an affection for one another, a love for one another. And so I mean that's that's what our our prayer and hope is is that we can foster that.
Speaker 2:Awesome.
Speaker 3:Bauer? So I'm super competitive. I like to win. Yeah, I like to win. I like to drive and, the guy that kind of mentored me was spiritual one of my spiritual dads I guess, Jordan Ogden, in Dallas which is Pace you said this about context, for those of you who aren't in Dallas like it is you you trip over yourself going from a ministry to a church.
Speaker 3:There's one on every corner. When when we planted the church people were like why another church in Dallas? And anyway, so Jordan was like really open handed with me. He's like he's like bro, you're a church planner. I want you to go out.
Speaker 3:I don't care if it's with our ministry or another one, but that's kind of who you are. That's part of your calling. And so that was helpful. So when I started meeting with Pace and some of the other guys, just my natural state, it was like trying to feel stuff out and kind of take the guy to the frat, but you can't take the frat out of the dude I guess. And so I was just, trying to feel myself out and figure out what was going on with the group and there was some competition in me but the relationship kind of let that go.
Speaker 3:And so I I don't remember what you asked specifically but, like, there was a measure of competition within me but the friendship side of it, the partnership side of it really started to change that so I could just be myself with the guys. And we had some stuff that Pace really initiated whether it was Monday or Tuesday when we had the lunches. But what's been great to me the partnership side has really come outside of it. Like Pace is kind of the sage or the guy. He's you gotta think he's got a gift of wisdom.
Speaker 3:And so there are times when I'm like, man, how do I handle this situation? What do you think about this? I mean, 2020, COVID, capital riots, Black Lives Matter, all of these things were going on and so it was so helpful to have a friend first that was really more committed to me than to my success. Then I can just I can process stuff. And, you know, in ministry, like I said, it's lonely and loneliness isn't a bad thing.
Speaker 3:It, like, actually drives you to take a risk, to let someone get to know you, to initiate. So kind of, like, over the years getting to see each man or each, yeah, each man and his gift. And I was like, man, when I had something going on I was like, I need to reach out to this person because they have something that I need. And so a lot of ways, I don't know that we've may have done a few things in ministry quote unquote where we did something but it's primarily been like a partnership in calling. Like like Jeremy so many times is like John, this is part of what we see in scripture, what it means to fulfill a calling and how to walk that out or or seeking his advice on wisdom or like a guy like Jeff in encouragement or just in shepherding.
Speaker 3:And so I would say, well, yes, I am competitive and if like you've got other I mean how many other kind of mentoring organizations are here in Dallas, Garth?
Speaker 2:There's a lot.
Speaker 3:There are yeah. And so I think that's like I am competitive but then remembering that like what you said Jeremy, God was already here, he's already moving in this city or wherever you might be listening. There's other partners and it's been so fun and it's taken a lot of time, it's just taken time. I mean you said we've known each other for 15 years that means it was probably 12 years for us Jeremy But through that time is just it's a rich friendship to where I can I looked up this verse in Philippians 2? It's from the message talking about Jesus having, become human.
Speaker 3:He stayed human. So it's really let me be human, to be high sometimes, to be low sometimes and still that we have that idea of like we're okay we're anchored to Christ, we're anchored to one another. So then when Pace or someone else is like, Bauer, but this is who you are, That has been so helpful to me here in in this role that I've got, you know, vocationally. So
Speaker 2:So I wanna ask, tell me the benefits of doing something like Anchored, of surrounding yourself with people who are focused on you being your best so that you could advance the kingdom. Tell me how it's helped y'all.
Speaker 3:Let me go can I go first? So as a as a pastor specifically, it's complicated in Dallas, in our context because everybody knows everybody more or less. You walk down the street and I can see you can just tell by how people dress if they go to church, like this is where you go, you know. If you have a tattoo maybe you go to Normandy, maybe you go to Eastside, whatever. But it's dead gum complicated.
Speaker 3:Like our relationship was complicated because we were friends, you were a leader in the church, I was, you know, a spiritual authority. So they have all these different layers of relationships which is takes a long time to mature enough to recognize, like, what role you're playing in the relationship. And so I think one of the main benefits has been friendship where you can, like I said, you can just be yourself and be like dude this part pisses me off, I love this part. And the idea of calling like I that's kind of what, at least if you're in Christian ministry, it's this idea that the living God has called you out to go do something specific. And if you read Paul, like, he's a little bipolar, like in 2nd Corinthians 10, through 13.
Speaker 3:He's, like, going through this big treatisee about why he's called to do this thing and, like, how human he was. And so I think the friendship side of it, a, keeps you humble but keeps you human. And just reminding like, that's been the main benefit. The friendship has led to like the reminder bro, this is what we see in scripture, this is what I've seen in you over the years, keep walking, don't stop. So it helps me be human, it helps me wrestle out how to follow Jesus where I'm at with them, with our church, with my family and it's really been it's like water on a a dry day.
Speaker 3:That's that's what it's meant to me. It's been part of, like, my, in essence, my rule of life. Like, if I don't do this and if I get stuck and I'm not initiating, I'm like, okay, something's off. I need to turn to my friends. I need to reach out to them, get a coffee, get a beer, whatever.
Speaker 3:So that's what I would say.
Speaker 2:And I know for me, like, as I lead, as I lead a ministry, as I lead my mentee, as I lead, there is this tendency, there is this temptation that I always have to be on, and that I can't be imperfect because these people are looking to me to lead well. These people are looking to me to show them how to do things. And I might be able to do that for a week. I might be able to do that for a month, but after a while, that weight becomes pretty stinking heavy. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so I think that's so important is to kinda take off my hat of I'm in charge and to surround myself with people where I really can just be myself. I can vent. I can confess. I can laugh. I can relax because if I don't do that, then it's only a matter of time because it's only a matter of time before that wait kind of takes me out.
Speaker 2:So Right. What do you think, Pase? What are some of the benefits?
Speaker 4:Yeah. I mean, you can't say it better than than John said in regards to just the reality of relationship is both a encouragement to keep going, but also like to some extent an accountability to keep going in the calling that God's given us, right? And so to know that there are others who I can both go to but who'll come to me when they see me off, they see me wearing the hat and not taking it off, they see a mask, they see whatever. And so, and honestly one of the biggest things for me, what, and I don't know about others in ministry, but you talk about the isolation of ministry and that has several different layers, but one of the layers is we tend to kind of we can tend to kind of orbit around our own little world. And so whatever's happening in our world, good or bad, is how we feel because that's our world.
Speaker 4:And so to know once a month I get to kind of get out of that orbit and into more of the universe of of God's kingdom. I mean in a little in a little way in our part of the city and recognize all the different ways the Lord's both breaking strongholds, healing people the way he's saving people, the way others are struggling to have faith in the same way. I'm struggling to have faith, all those kind of things. I just kinda you just kinda get a picture of, man, there's so much more that I'm a part of right now which means my God is so much bigger than my little world. And as in him as he is in it, there's so much more that I'm a part of and that to me is a super compelling reason to stay at it and to stay in it because whatever I see in my moment isn't all that's going on and all that's happening.
Speaker 4:And so knowing that once a month that I'll get to be around around people that are gonna
Speaker 2:remind me of
Speaker 3:that is super helpful. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So how how has surrounding yourself with these people helped you become who you are today?
Speaker 3:Oh, that's kind of easy. It's easy for me to talk, but I heard this phrase, I guess, last year that vocation is formed not found. And, like, in the context of relationship, we're cha we're changed, we're shaped, and there's a handful of guys and their perspective on the world, their perspective on ministry, like like you said, like when you when there's a problem, I mean, you know, 5 years ago it was like it's all over, Chicken Little, that's me, the sky is falling. And so getting that perspective but then like shaping my theology, shaping my spiritual practices, shaping my philosophy by the things that we talk about say because I love talking shop and so I want to talk shop and a lot of times that happens outside of it. But I would say the formation that's come by walking with these guys has been huge.
Speaker 3:I would have quit probably a 100 times on on a second second point because like in our in America specifically then you break it down to Dallas, like we love comfort. And we have it so easy on one sense with the Amazon's and the iPhones and all that other jazz. And so the reminder I mean, also on a side note after COVID and all this other stuff, the amount of people dropping out of ministry in general is huge apparently. Like there's been tons of deconstruction, there's been tons of questioning, people not going to church, all this other stuff. You know, I'm sure donors dropping, people just saying, you know, I'm gonna go stop doing this thing called church or this ministry or whatever.
Speaker 3:And so both informing who I am as a man but then informing what the reality of the kingdom is like, that's been huge and it's just flat out not good to be alone. When you get into specifically when I get into my mind and I'm isolating there and so hearing from them the reminders, the perspectives and you actually then get to practice rejoicing with those who rejoice and mourn with those who mourn. And I just shaping my perspective, I'm like man, I mean, Pase and I were talking right before, you got in here, Garce, that, you know, there's different pastors in different locations of the world that have got all kinds of difficulties and trials and I would say just even shaping my view of success of saying I'd I am unsuccessful from a Dallas church world's perspective but I'm successful in the sense of the kingdom a, because I've been faithful, at least tried to be. And you're seeing lives changed even though it's slow and steady and not as quick or as comforting as I want, not as powerful as I want sometimes. And so shaping, me as a man, shaping my view, informing my world view, those have all been huge to me that I wouldn't be probably a in ministry or b who I am in the healthy places without these guys and just kind of flat out in friendship.
Speaker 3:I mean, more than anything. I mean, we're not doing a ton. We're not where the action is on one sense, but anyway, that's just kind of my perspective, PACE.
Speaker 4:Yes, ask the question one more time?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Sure. Just like how how has spending time with this group, how has doing what you do with other people, how has it made you who you are today? How has it made you a better leader?
Speaker 4:Yeah. Like like John said, I mean the reality is that we are formed in relationship and so I'm not I'm not the minister that I am without John, without Jeff, without Adam, without Randy, without a whole collection of of of others, and even some, even some who have, who have, who are no longer a part of the collective and because they're not in ministry anymore, they're the reality is, and we all know this, right, like especially in mentoring, like you're, you're a part of somebody's story, right? And you're not all the story and you might not be there for the the whole story, but you you play a part in their pilgrimage and their following of Jesus, right? Like a disciple is not just this static thing, like we don't live in a static environment, like we're we're always going towards something and and that's something in Jesus. And so relationships that are that that we formed within the collective have have been have made it to where where at certain moments I need something spoken into me from from Jesus.
Speaker 4:Something encouraged, in me, something a blind spot shown to me. Especially in ministry, right, like, so I mean we have we have relationships like this, like accountability relationships in other areas of life, right, to some extent. We have spouses who love us, who who appoint us to Jesus, all that kind of stuff. But there is something about about being shoulder to shoulder with others in ministry who are doing the same thing you are, maybe even a little bit different but the same thing you are with the same heart you are, have a heart for you that because they're filled with the spirit and because they love you at moments speak things into you, speak things over you, say things to you that keep you staying on the ancient path, the true way, the way that that that Jesus has for you. Whether it's an encouragement or an exhortation.
Speaker 4:And so so I can't I don't know that I can look back and just say here's the the the four moments that have completely changed me because of Anchored. But I can I can remember the 6 dozen conversations that that I needed in the moment that sometimes I didn't even know that I needed where John has spoken a word of encouragement and exhortation over me where Jeff or with Randy or Adam have have said something that compelled me to think differently or to be grounded back into the reality of of the calling? And so and I I think that's really what it means to to have people alongside of you in the journey to to walk with one another who whose agenda is not to try to get you to do something a particular way but whose agenda is for you to stay faithful to Jesus because they they know what Jesus called you into, they know who Jesus has made you to be and so they're they're trying to to foster that in you and not foster some sort of some sort of other vision, right? Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I as you're talking and for people listening as you're like and so that sounds great, how do you do it? And so I I would say it just it just take it's just taken so much time. Yep. It's just taken time and you do like the the anchoring part is so it was so massive of like anchoring into the right story and the perspective that they give these different men give to me has been huge. But just an encouragement, it takes time because there are people that are out there in ministry that want you to do something a certain way or come on their side of the table and believe what they believe.
Speaker 3:And I guess this is like we've had a few outside older guys come out and say, man this is so unique, this is so radical, I wish I would have had this and I'm kinda like, what are you talking about? We're kind of
Speaker 4:just It just seems really normal. Right?
Speaker 3:It seems normal. Yeah. But it's taken time and and in that time trust is developed. So I really do believe these guys, I mean, yeah, congratulations you have a church, but they don't care about that as much as they care about me as a man and, like, speaking life in those moments. And then, yeah, when it's time like like, hey, dude, what do you do here?
Speaker 3:Give me some perspective or some wisdom. Let's talk shop. That does come into play. But it's just taken just taken flat out time to where I I'm uninterested in Jeremy's success as a pastor. I wanted to be successful but I'm I'm more as, interested in him being succeeding just in living well and then leading well from a place of life and so that's just taken time and it's taken risks, it's taken vulnerability and awkwardness and all the things that normally come with any relationship.
Speaker 3:And so I would encourage the listeners that just yeah. It's a 4 letter word, it's time. Yeah. And maybe risk if risk is
Speaker 2:a 4 letter word. Yes it is, John.
Speaker 4:Yeah. I think, you know, in the the time comes because we were committed, we were committed to it, we were committed to to the friendship in Jesus, honestly. I mean that's that's really what spurred it, right? That we would develop friendship. We definitely have some natural affinity towards one another.
Speaker 4:We're all very different personalities, different backgrounds, different things and so it it took on everybody's part like a commitment to actually building a relationship and that that was actually the work of ministry and the work that needed to be done for the long to longitude of ministry, for the longevity of ministry. We needed friends like those who were going to walk with us in this. At least that was that was our conviction, right? Like that it wasn't that like Yeah. We we know we need people to help us do what we do better in the practical sense, but in the end, like like we need people to share the burden as we carry our own loads.
Speaker 4:Right? Like who are willing to share the burden with us and who know what the burden is. And and in scripture those are called friends, those are called a family, like And so while that seems like, John said, just normal, it's unfortunately unnatural in a lot of the ministry world, right? Either because of competition or because of busyness or because we have in our view that the only thing worth doing in ministry is something that bears pragmatic and practical fruit immediately. But if you're listening and you want to do ministry for 40, 50, 60 years, like relationships with others who are doing it is absolutely pivotal.
Speaker 4:Like Jesus didn't call 1 disciple and send one out, like we
Speaker 3:we don't have anywhere in
Speaker 4:our scriptures where there's a lone person just sent off. Jesus himself like could have just gone and done all the things he did without any of the people around him, like he didn't need the disciples to heal people, to walk on water, to break bread, like there's a reason he chose to bring them in, not just into the pragmatics of ministry, but into his life so much so that at the end of it he calls him friends. Like, I mean that's how he ends his life with him, like it's not you're my servants, like you're my friends. And so if that's a true reality of what what is birthed out of abiding in Jesus with other people, then that's something that as ministry leaders that we should not just seek, but we should actually be ones who are actually able to demonstrate to others this is the fruit of the good fruit of abiding. Is friendship like this?
Speaker 2:Well, and like I know for me like it is absolutely vital that I get to know people who are doing what I'm doing in different parts of the city of America so that one, I can champion them. Like, I can call them up and say, hey man, you're doing a good job. You know, I can encourage them. But 2, how if I see them as competition instead of as a friend, then ultimately I'll see them as someone who I'm against, and that doesn't sound very godly to me. No.
Speaker 2:And so if I'm doing ministry in the name of Jesus, and I am rooting against someone, and I am against someone, those two things don't make sense. So it's important for me to check my heart and to be like, man, how come I'm not for this mentoring organization? How come I'm not for this non profit? And then tell me what that says about my heart. And then I need to go and I need to do work and I need to figure out what I have to do to champion them, to be like, hey, Gad, like we're both on the same team here.
Speaker 2:And I just think if you have that competition mindset, you're just not going to last very long. Right. Because there's a bunch of fear, there's a bunch of insecurity, and ultimately that will cause isolation. Right?
Speaker 4:Yeah. So, so Paul talks about it in Galatians, right? So the the mark of freedom is is the spirit, the love of the spirit that compels us. Right? But the kind of example that he gives of like, okay, so what does it look like to be really free in Jesus, being full of the spirit, bearing the fruit of the spirit, the last thing in Galatians 5 is that you don't compare and you contrast yourself one to another.
Speaker 4:Like like that's that's ultimately what maturity and freedom in Jesus is. And so the the reality is, like Paul has to say that because that's that's not normal, right? That's a that's a new a new image, a new person, a different person that we can't get to in our own in our flesh. And so even if you're not and and I think this happens as much in ministry as anything is like we tend to say well, like it's a competition thing. And I and in some cases it is.
Speaker 4:Some of us are competitive. I mean John tries to win at everything we do whenever we get together. But but we've already established that's just a part of his personality, we love it and and we know he loses a lot so it's fine. But but part of it, part of the competition exists is because you're not you don't actually know the other. Like there's like the feeling of competition is simply because you don't So you may not like this mentoring ministry, you may not like it, it might not even be the right term, you may feel like you're not on board with them or connected to them because you actually don't know them, it's just them.
Speaker 4:Like some point it can't be them, it has to be John. It can't be them, it has to be Jeff. It's like And so it really is, Jesus is so it's really that simple. Not easy, but it really is that simple. Like it, at some point it just requires you to know them.
Speaker 4:And if you're, if you're filled with the spirit in any sort of way, like if you go into it with any sort of fruit of the spirit, like you will begin to see the same spirit in them and then it's no longer them. I see the same spirit in John, I see the same spirit in Jeff. And no matter what, you're different. And it's like, okay, I guess I guess we got the same spirit and Jesus said if you're not against me, you're with me.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 4:Like, and so it is actually a means of our own discipleship.
Speaker 2:That's good.
Speaker 3:I just wanna redeem competition because you know that like reject, receive, redeem. I think it's one of those things that can be redeemed and so Garza, I would say I mean, I cannot tell you how many times I've gotten in the fear zone where my brain, my lid flips because I hear someone's leaving my church, our see the pronoun there, gotta work on your pronouns, it ain't my church, it's his. I really I've started to hate it when people like go, how's your church doing? And I'm like, ain't mine dog? And I kinda get rough about that.
Speaker 3:But anyway, when you're like when you start to notice, man, god, White Rock's doing this or this church is doing that and my people went there or whatever else. There is a drive and there is some fear in there of rejection of failure but I would just say on that I've I rarely do a good job by myself figuring out what's going on. And if you can cut through all of the religious b s where that's the the thing that's so nice about Anchored is because you kind of turn off that what you said earlier that leader voice or that pastor voice and you talk like a normal human. In Dallas, it's like that. I don't know what it's like for those of you who are listening elsewhere to actually be real to say, man, this is what's going on.
Speaker 3:I'm I'm irritated because some people have left our church to go hear what is that in me. And then guys like Jeremy, whatever else, people can speak and say, hey, dude, remember. Remember. And I love what Pace said about seeing the people over the organization because Christ didn't die for my organization, he died for relationships. And
Speaker 2:the
Speaker 3:only way that I've there's been a few moments where, like, I feel like Jesus has spoken to me like he did to Peter going, hey, if if he if I want him to stay till the end, what's it to you? You follow me. So that is helpful from like spending time with the Lord's standpoint in ministry but I think the more real is when I like actually share in such a way that it's kind of ugly and then someone's like, yeah dude, but remember if Jesus said if they're not if they're not against us then they're with us, they're for us and then you're like, okay. And that's where I've been formed and shaped and changed where that drive has been there and trying to figure it out by myself usually doesn't go that well. There's a few times when I get it and there's a few times in my maturity where I've like gone, okay, Holy Spirit you can help but I can't convict myself.
Speaker 3:I need his help. I need y'all's help to do that. And so I think that's how you kind of redeem that competition is for me kind of being direct saying, man, I'm feeling tension about this ministry or this thing. I'm feeling a little bit jealous of this whatever it is. This is where I'm at and kind of being a little bit just vulnerable and that's where that change is coming.
Speaker 3:That's where I think that partnership, that friendship with people outside of your tiny world even if your world is very successful and very influential, I think that's been, what do you call it, priceless.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I know for me, like, if I hear, like, a different non profit, they receive some type of funding, you know, I'm like, oh my gosh, like, we both applied for the same, you know, for the same grant and they got it and I didn't. Or they got a certain person on their board or da da da. They got so many likes on social media. Right?
Speaker 2:Like, there's so many opportunities for me to come against someone and to be filled with fear, and that's not good. That's not good for my heart. That's not good for how I see them. That's not good for anything. And it is absolutely vital for me to confess that to people and say, hey, here's what I'm feeling, here's what I'm going through, and then have them speak to that.
Speaker 2:That's essential. To the guy who's like about to start start a ministry and they want to do it alone. Can you just kind of heed heed this?
Speaker 3:What do
Speaker 4:you mean
Speaker 3:by that, do it alone?
Speaker 2:Like they don't need your help. They don't want to go have coffee with a guy who's doing the non profit, who's doing the church right across the street. They don't see the need to become friends and to partner together for the advancement of the kingdom. They just wanna do their thing. Can you kind of speak speak a word of warning to them?
Speaker 4:I mean, you're not gonna go very far. You're not gonna last very long. I mean, maybe you will. Maybe maybe God in his in his wrath will let you get what you want.
Speaker 3:He's referencing Romans 1.
Speaker 4:Because the reality again, this is this isn't just how this isn't how the kingdom works. Like, again, like, maybe it works this way in business. Maybe it works this way in in western economics, but the the loan initiator, entrepreneur, guy who's got it, person who's got it all figured out and is gonna do it completely differently without any any help, which is probably a myth to be honest, like, if you were to really, like, look into it even in in that world. But definitely in the kingdom, it just doesn't that's just not how God's made it to work. And so in some ways, you're fighting against the very thing that you're after.
Speaker 4:Right? And in in all of our scriptures that always goes bad. At some point it always goes bad. And so, like, what it doesn't mean and here's and again this is what I've I've tried so like partnering in ministry doesn't mean that like we're all of a sudden doing everything together and that like whatever you wanna do I'm gonna do like the partnerships, the pragmatic pragmatic outworking of ministry has come in relationship but it's come because of relationship. Like what partnering in ministry actually means is that together we're following Jesus in this place for the name of Jesus to doing something to in some way that that corresponds to the to lifting up the name of Jesus and that we're just not going to do it in isolation.
Speaker 4:And and and this is why we started, like it really simply means building a friendship. Like it doesn't mean that you're like there may be a few guys who come to the Anchor Collective because they're looking for wisdom or for like practical ministry partners or even for financial resources through relationships and networking, and none of those things are necessarily like wrong, but like the but we what we always come back to is like all those things are birthed out of friendship, eventually like we have to be together in friendship. And so so if you're like if the you're the person who's like, hey I want to start something and I don't want anything to do with any of those around me because listen they've all got it wrong, I've obviously got it right, because I would assume that's the the the mentality if you're trying to go at it alone is you don't have it all right, you do have some of it wrong, they probably do have quite a few things that are right, it may be different and God may actually have your differences be something that's complimentary, but if you go about it with any sort of I'm against them, I'm not with them, or like I don't need them, then you're actually walking against the flow of I think what the kingdom and the spirit's actually doing.
Speaker 3:I I'd so I don't know the the way you phrased that, anybody would blatantly say or think like I'm just flat out going alone. For me, does that make sense? Like for me
Speaker 4:but you know what you what you want here. Yeah.
Speaker 2:How about to someone who doesn't make it a priority? Yeah. How's that?
Speaker 3:So my my story was I wanted to be like my heroes.
Speaker 2:Me.
Speaker 3:Well, I didn't know you at the time. But now Actually, yes. I kinda do. And I grew up, we grew up, if you're evangelical at all, and kind of like a hero mentality, like to see you at the pole, if I'm not there then everyone's gonna burn and go to hell, world changer, promise keepers, what's the one, passion conference, you know, we're like, I'm gonna change the world for Jesus and that's some of that's I mean, it's not bad, but there's like that kind of mentality and I'm so I'm trying to shift my mindset from hero world changer, which I don't think is bad, I think can be redeemed, but into farmer. And I started because I wanted to be like my heroes which meant like in essence, I mean, Pace said this nonchalantly years ago because what it's like you're trying to create a new denomination and I was like well, yeah, actually I am.
Speaker 3:In my head I didn't say that to you. And so for those type of people I would say I would encourage vision and ambition as far as like Paul said I have a holy ambition to go preach Christ where he's not been proclaimed. There might be something that is a compliment that isn't going on in your area that's a little bit different. That is okay, But I would encourage, and prioritize serving another's vision. I mean, Garza, we talked about that for so long, but it's like go serve another man's vision, another woman's vision because I'm always gonna champion, yes, hear from the lord, try and walk in purpose, but at the same time I think even prior to launching something whatever else, really go see what's out there, serve because pace what you said at the beginning was so good, he's already there.
Speaker 3:Like he's not sending you some place where he's not already existing, like, he's not already moving. He doesn't already have plans. He doesn't already have a history and a future. And so I would really encourage, yes, be ambitious for Christ because he can redeem that because there's some of it's gonna be fleshly and human and shadowy and needs to be sanctified and that's part of the process. But I would really encourage, like, go check out what's there, go serve in humility and trust the lord to send you out at the right time.
Speaker 3:And the hardest part, like what you said, Pace, is like basically American Christianity oftentimes flies in the face of the kingdom. It's so contradictory. It's so difficult to get it for the flesh to get in the flow of the kingdom in my opinion. And so making that priority of relationship, of friendship, of service, of humility that actually helps you get you in the flow so that you can actually walk in to your purpose into what is your ambition and God will shape and change that over the years because your cheese will move because of life and circumstances. So I would that's what I that's how I would prioritize it is like going and saying, you know, hey I'm in the area one of these days I wanna sin something different.
Speaker 3:Well, it's like, well, go learn from Forerunner. Go learn from Mentoring Alliance. Go learn from some of these people and see what God might stir up, before just jumping out and doing it as a lone wolf because that doesn't it's not actually in the scriptures and when it is in the scripture, it doesn't usually go very well, very long for that person. So
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, like I I created what we're doing here because I stole everything. I mean, like John, like we do a lot of relational needs type stuff and I took that straight from you, and you took that straight from
Speaker 3:Other people, CRC.
Speaker 2:Right. Mentoring, learn from Mercy Street. After school program, learn from Voice of Hope. See serving the moms, learned from Hope Farm. I mean, it's like everything that we've done, I've stolen.
Speaker 2:And how did I steal? I went to meet with these people. I just called them up and said, hey, you are up to something good, can I come learn? And if you're in charge of something, if you're leading a ministry, my encouragement to you is, 1, you've got to search your heart and see if there's any animosity towards someone who is advancing the kingdom right alongside you. 2, build a relationship with that person.
Speaker 2:Call up that pastor, call up that executive director, and just take them out to lunch. Go grab coffee, go ask questions, go hear their story, go check out their after school program, their mentoring program. And then the last thing, which this was huge for me, is you've got to champion them. You've got to talk good about them. Talk good.
Speaker 2:Talk good about them. You have to speak well about them. You have to pray for them, and you have to really be on their side. Mhmm. And whenever I did those things, it's almost like the Lord put his hand on what we were doing here.
Speaker 2:Because God wants his kingdom advanced, and he's gonna do that through a multitude of ways. It's a big deal. Well, if people want to learn more about Anchored and Anchored Collective, can you tell them how to find out more?
Speaker 4:I think it's let me look up the website.
Speaker 2:And, PACE, you need to know the website.
Speaker 4:Yeah. I mean, it's relatively new. We've we've been pretty organic for most of the year. We the website officially just launched like a few months ago and and it goes against everything in my that I believe in. No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 4:He hates marketing.
Speaker 3:I love it. It's anchorcollective.org. AnchorCollector. Okay.
Speaker 4:Not the anchor collector, just anchorcollective.org. I don't know. I think it's anchorcollective.org. Sure. Yeah.
Speaker 4:And so you'll find it. It's I mean, it's there's nothing fancy. It just says that we eat together and we remind each other that Jesus is awesome.
Speaker 2:Well, and if you guys want to learn more, holler at Jeremy Pace, Christ City Church
Speaker 4:Dot life. I do know
Speaker 2:that one. Dot life. Holler at John Bauer. He's at Normandy Church. Both are here in the great city of Dallas.
Speaker 2:So yeah. Any parting words, gentlemen?
Speaker 3:He's more committed to his will for your life than you are. Good. You keep on tracking and it's not good to be alone so initiate.
Speaker 4:Initiate. Exactly. It's worth it. Yeah. It is worth it.
Speaker 2:Alright. Thanks guys. Hey, if y'all didn't take away anything from this episode, then you're wrong. But take this away, you can mentor with other people.