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Brand to Scale is a podcast where we talk to business leaders and industry influencers about how they built their brands. Each episode dives into real stories about starting up, growing through challenges, and what success looks like behind the scenes. It's an honest look at the people and ideas driving business forward.
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:13:07
Unknown
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
00:00:13:08 - 00:00:33:09
Unknown
Welcome to another episode of Bronzer Scale, where I explore the real stories behind people who are building amazing businesses with honesty, curiosity, and a touch of alchemy. I'm your host, and today I'm joined by someone who has spent her entire career guiding others. She's the founder of the Business Fit, a leadership coach and a competitive powerlifter on the site.
00:00:33:10 - 00:00:34:19
Unknown
Welcome, Sam.
00:00:37:05 - 00:02:24:10
Unknown
Thank you for being here. I think, we've spoken a lot already, haven't we? Multiple conversations. So, I'm going to ask you some actual questions, and we'll probably album cover today for, for our audience. But that start with tell me a bit about you, who you are and what you do.
00:02:24:12 - 00:04:16:11
Unknown
Venison. I definitely want to, deep dive into that a little bit more, because that's an unusual, one, Daphne. But when? When you were in school. When you were growing up, did you think I know what I want to do? I want to go and be an air.
00:04:16:13 - 00:04:40:03
Unknown
One. What else are you? It's weird. And I like Hagar a human. It sounds really cold, doesn't it? Like the. At the time, it was really cold. And it does conjure up images of, like, disciplinary years and all of the horrible stuff that you seem to hear about how air and probably how people got bad rap, as well.
00:04:40:05 - 00:05:54:07
Unknown
But what is it that is fascinating to you about it? And what what do you how do you get fulfillment from, from that in a, you know, starting your career?
00:05:54:09 - 00:08:20:02
Unknown
So, what was that first, stage of your career, like in the air? Did did it fulfill your dreams? Were you helping people? Was everything you'd imagined?
00:08:20:04 - 00:08:44:12
Unknown
I think I agree. Yeah. It it. You always get the picture of, you know, the CEO or the MD in this, like, you know, the 11th floor in a glass office. You know, you can't get them via, like, a book, an appointment with secretary or something. Mad men style. I think it's in the past, but it's still it still happens, as I'm sure you, in your.
00:08:44:16 - 00:10:20:12
Unknown
But was that the first time you were like, that's good leadership? I understand that that is, that is important. Were there any instances during that that career that you saw saw it from the other side, the invisible leaders or any other behaviors that you thought, wow, that's not that's not right.
00:10:20:14 - 00:10:46:01
Unknown
Absolutely. Is. Is there, a moment within your career, then, where you're learning all this and observing all this from leaders and businesses you're working in? Well, what was the trigger moment, then for you to go? Actually, I'm going to go and become a leadership coach or build my own business. Was there a lead up to that? Was there a happening?
00:10:46:01 - 00:13:35:05
Unknown
Like what was the situation that made you make the leap into business ownership?
00:13:35:07 - 00:14:56:15
Unknown
I bet, I bet it does. You mentioned that you had a coach around that time as well. So the value of coaching was already that, like, you knew, you know, mentioned coaching is something that people should be seeking. What what made you seek it? And how and what learnings did you get from your coaching experience that you've, you transferred into the way that you work?
00:14:56:17 - 00:16:31:23
Unknown
Yeah.
00:16:32:01 - 00:16:35:01
Unknown
How did.
00:16:35:03 - 00:17:19:23
Unknown
That's good. How do you break up with the coach, though? Like, if he was your coach that long and you had that period of time, and then you suddenly are starting your own business. How is that conversation? Sorry, I don't need you anymore. You've coached me to the limit. I'm. I'm all good now.
00:17:20:01 - 00:17:38:19
Unknown
That my clients. I would feel so bad about breaking up with a coach. Other. That said, we have we have had to do it. Yeah, but that was because we we closed the business. So shout out to Cass, our, our business coach who got us through some super rocky times. But I agree coaching is important. Mentorship is important.
00:17:38:20 - 00:19:02:22
Unknown
So transitioning into be business fit now, what is the first you're leaving this really massive corporate environment, I assume with lots and lots of contacts, knowing lots, lots of levels people have. So was it. And easy is the wrong word, if you know what I mean. Like, did you have opportunities ready to go when you did that transition or was it, you know, staged approach?
00:19:09:13 - 00:19:37:05
Unknown
Why.
00:19:37:07 - 00:19:40:04
Unknown
Yeah.
00:19:40:06 - 00:20:09:03
Unknown
100%. What was that like then, in terms of the mindset shift? Because you're you're in a business, you're leading HR for this massive organization. You've got that security. You know what you're doing because you've been doing it for years. And then suddenly you are you're you'll responsible for all of the elements within that business that you'll grow. And that's a different skillset, different mindset, different confidence level that you have to have to do it.
00:20:09:03 - 00:20:38:12
Unknown
If you do any work around that.
00:20:38:14 - 00:21:59:14
Unknown
Am I right? Yeah.
00:21:59:15 - 00:22:03:10
Unknown
Journey.
00:22:03:12 - 00:22:30:07
Unknown
Surround yourself. The. The right people is, Really good advice. Definitely. So that's probably a nice segue into what I know you're most passionate about, which is, leadership, coaching behavior. How important is it to, like, who you work with?
00:22:30:09 - 00:23:52:00
Unknown
As a leader, or if you're if you're employing people, that's put it from that perspective, then how important is it to the like who you're working with? And is that a different question to be able to have those conversations, you know, in the right way, like, what's the difference?
00:23:52:02 - 00:24:53:02
Unknown
The.
00:24:53:04 - 00:25:07:08
Unknown
You.
00:25:07:10 - 00:25:30:13
Unknown
Yeah, I definitely agree. And like you, I've seen some examples of really great leadership and some examples of absolutely diabolical leadership that leaves you, you know, head in your hands like this can't be reality. But what does that mean? You know, what does that mean? Lead by behavior. What is that good behavior that that person should be showing?
00:25:30:13 - 00:27:20:17
Unknown
As an example?
00:27:20:19 - 00:29:53:20
Unknown
How do you, How would a leader then encourage that open conversation? Because I can. I can see it happening like you want that collaborative atmosphere and everyone's chat, but then you don't get it back. So is that is that the fault of the leader not positioning? Not in the right way? Or is it, a culture thing, like what's the issue there?
00:29:53:22 - 00:30:07:22
Unknown
Wow. So maybe that. If that's the only issue in your organization that you're winning on. You like to change the toilet paper?
00:30:33:13 - 00:31:15:03
Unknown
Wow.
00:31:15:05 - 00:31:33:14
Unknown
Who's interesting? So, yeah. It can be that. That little visible. What do you say to those leaders, though, that. Oh, I don't I won't have time for that. I can't be, especially for remote working. You know? I can't be on teams. Call in everyone, you know, to see how they're doing in an org organization of 100 or whatever it might be.
00:31:33:19 - 00:32:12:07
Unknown
What? What's the what's the answer to that? Get on with it. So.
00:32:12:09 - 00:32:29:21
Unknown
At.
00:32:29:23 - 00:33:09:16
Unknown
When.
00:33:27:13 - 00:33:54:01
Unknown
Yeah. Acknowledgment. Isn't it? Acknowledgment of. Yeah. The people that the work with you. What about things like, So I've. I've heard quite often from when I have these conversations are I worked in this organization, all this business over here. And one of the common things that come through is we just never got thanked or appreciated or any sort of recognition for anything well done.
00:33:54:01 - 00:34:56:02
Unknown
The only time that communication happened was when something was going wrong. That just seems to be a thing that is just happens. Are you seeing that? Is that still happening in that and what it. Yeah.
00:34:56:04 - 00:35:16:01
Unknown
Yeah. So. Yeah.
00:35:16:03 - 00:36:11:11
Unknown
When.
00:36:11:13 - 00:36:32:05
Unknown
Yeah.
00:36:32:07 - 00:37:26:07
Unknown
Absolutely. Thanks for having my back. Or, you know, whatever it might be. We. We thought so. Behavior element. You know, we kind of talked about communication and recognition and visibility. What other traits or behaviors do you think is, you know, non-negotiable like, should be happening critical to to business success that should be going on the aren't.
00:37:26:09 - 00:38:05:05
Unknown
You.
00:38:05:07 - 00:38:17:10
Unknown
Yeah.
00:38:17:12 - 00:38:38:20
Unknown
Definitely. And it's. It's good to do those values exercises, you know, like we do it. We go through it with businesses, and then you have to ask those awkward questions around Will on actually embodying that un as as a leader of that business. Are you are you aligning yourself to though. Because why why should I have anyone else that works for you?
00:38:38:22 - 00:39:00:18
Unknown
Show up to that meeting on time. If you're not showing up to that meeting on time, or treating people with respect if you're not, so it is that lead by example. And yeah, I remember going into an office building once and it was a similar thing. It was like all the beautiful mural, like it was all there and it was like approachable, always ready and necessarily rude.
00:39:00:20 - 00:39:32:21
Unknown
And they were like, oh, start, good start. So I leave anything that's written on that wall now, you know, is is yeah. Blatant contradiction. Definitely. Yeah. It's it's one of those exercises, I think, that gets done at the point of like a rebrand or a new business, and then they kind of get from then. So is there any any advice you would give to people on how to keep those values alive, how to continuously communicate them?
00:39:32:23 - 00:40:35:21
Unknown
How do you measure against it as well? Because how can you be everywhere all of the time and chat? People are turning up to their meetings, you know.
00:40:35:23 - 00:40:49:02
Unknown
You.
00:41:03:04 - 00:41:11:23
Unknown
We.
00:41:12:01 - 00:41:18:23
Unknown
Share. And, Doesn't need to be. Yeah, it's an interesting one, isn't it?
00:41:18:23 - 00:41:40:02
Unknown
So we we've talked about leaders and what they should be doing. And I think we've come out a strong on on those all Nope. So you know to to because it is important you have to lead by behavior. Not that makes total sense. What from the other perspective, from an employees perspective.
00:41:40:03 - 00:42:17:16
Unknown
And in a business where there is a leader and perhaps they are, you know, in a growing business, you know, it's their first that whatever it is, well, what does that employee who maybe is not getting everything that they should get from that leader, what do they need to understand maybe about that leader's position or situation or mindset at that time?
00:42:17:18 - 00:43:58:10
Unknown
Yeah.
00:43:58:12 - 00:44:22:17
Unknown
Yeah. 100. That, like everyone's got their own reality going on, haven't they? And, I think this goes for everyone. Really working in whatever level is. You sometimes have to feel like you need to put on a face or show to show up that day, even though you're not quite feeling it. And then one comment or something can send you reeling that you wouldn't have taken so personally the day before.
00:44:22:17 - 00:45:19:07
Unknown
And there's all of this nuance and complexities going on, and it's not just boss, employee or the other way around. It's like human life. Isn't that? Yeah. And that's the challenge. How how important do you think empathy is?
00:45:19:09 - 00:45:38:16
Unknown
Yeah.
00:45:38:18 - 00:46:07:14
Unknown
Absolutely. Huge. You. You touched on that a little earlier around, you know, a leader or manager might have been promoted into the role, or they've come from a different department or wherever it might be. What are the dangers of that? Because you talked about this before. You talk about a lot around that person not being trained fully equipped for that role and then sort of being left to figure it out without the training.
00:46:07:14 - 00:46:55:12
Unknown
So why is this an issue and why why does it happen? And what what are the dangers of, sort of leaving, dropping them in and leaving them to it?
00:46:55:14 - 00:48:43:22
Unknown
Well.
00:48:44:00 - 00:49:10:14
Unknown
That's. What's the. What's the solution? And I. It's a new. It makes total sense when you say it, doesn't it? But it just seems to be that it's just always happened like that. What do you do about it? But, all the people who are promoting these people into leadership roles waiting till something I almost saw, then something goes really drastically wrong to fix it.
00:49:10:14 - 00:51:37:22
Unknown
Or they starting to because there's a lot of talk around leadership now on culture and how that needs to change. So is this coming into the part of the conversation about that coaching, not mentorship support being built in as roles are being promoted?
00:51:38:00 - 00:51:50:00
Unknown
Wow.
00:51:50:02 - 00:53:02:13
Unknown
Do we do it? I forget well, Charlotte's.
00:53:02:15 - 00:53:11:06
Unknown
The.
00:53:11:08 - 00:53:43:07
Unknown
Me.
00:53:43:09 - 00:53:50:15
Unknown
Nights.
00:53:50:17 - 00:54:33:20
Unknown
Yeah. I think. I'm.
00:54:33:22 - 00:54:53:13
Unknown
Not.
00:54:53:15 - 00:54:59:23
Unknown
With.
00:55:00:01 - 00:55:04:16
Unknown
Yeah.
00:55:04:18 - 00:55:31:20
Unknown
Yeah, absolutely, I love that. Do you think there's, like. No. It's really good. Do you think there's resistance to it from people who are being offered the coaching because of that sort of challenge against authority element? And do you think that coaching isn't being offered by businesses because they only do it when there's something wrong, when they can see something go wrong?
00:55:31:20 - 00:56:06:19
Unknown
Yeah. So it's prevention conversation that needs to needs.
00:56:06:21 - 00:56:17:09
Unknown
Remember? Yeah.
00:56:17:11 - 00:56:21:06
Unknown
We.
00:56:21:08 - 00:56:43:01
Unknown
Were. And they will be obviously all the other benefits. So as well as, like, you know, saving the business money into the complex in the long run, that the people will get better management. They'll feel looked after. They're more likely to stay. So the turnover will be less that, oh, you know, that have an impact on the bottom line as well.
00:56:43:01 - 00:57:06:14
Unknown
If you look after people who people look after the business, all of that, all of that.
00:57:06:16 - 00:57:14:15
Unknown
We.
00:57:28:14 - 00:57:41:08
Unknown
Run!
00:57:41:10 - 00:58:41:11
Unknown
Yeah. Massive. Massive. What is. It sounds like you're on a mission. Some to. To help. So, what are you doing about it? Personally?
01:00:50:19 - 01:01:25:11
Unknown
I find. Yeah. We will commence. Yeah, definitely. To where you can find that survey. I think it's a really and timely conversation. Isn't that definitely, where people need to feel supported to do their best work, where they otherwise they're going to move on? Yeah, definitely. What? This is only because I'm really curious. Have you ever worked with a business owner or leader at any point?
01:01:25:12 - 01:02:50:08
Unknown
And you've determined that actually they're not the right person to be leading or in that position or whatever it is they're doing either. I know personality wise, whatever it might be. Are there people who are good at this? People who are bad at this? And is it? It's a learned thing. Nature, nurture. That was a long winded question, but you got my point.
01:02:50:10 - 01:03:02:17
Unknown
Through. Yeah.
01:03:02:19 - 01:03:21:07
Unknown
100%. I feel like that is something. Because I can totally relate to that. Something you get more in tune with as you get a little bit older about what you're willing up with and what you're not willing to put up with in life and work. You know, it works across, across both, doesn't it? And then you start thinking, what is that like?
01:03:21:07 - 01:03:40:10
Unknown
Oh, because this is important to me, and this is really important to me. And being surrounded by these types of people is important to me. And you do end up spending a lot of time with people you work with who is. Yeah. There's are, that important element as well. Exciting. I think it's a great conversation to have.
01:03:40:10 - 01:04:07:05
Unknown
And I think, yeah, coaching mentorship always seems a bit can come across as a bit fluffy, a bit of a negative thing that woowoo sometimes. And, you know, I've had a coach, I think I always will because it can be quite a lonely place. Comment if you're, if you're running this and you can't necessarily have those difficult conversations with the people that you work with, because they'll just say, oh, shut up or your own and everything's great.
01:04:07:07 - 01:04:14:09
Unknown
So you do need that. Therapist.
01:04:14:11 - 01:04:33:20
Unknown
Validation, but also someone to tell you when you are being bit of an ass on onto, you know, sort that stuff out as well.
01:04:33:22 - 01:04:50:12
Unknown
Who?
01:04:50:14 - 01:04:58:06
Unknown
That.
01:04:58:08 - 01:05:40:02
Unknown
Okay.
01:05:40:04 - 01:05:44:07
Unknown
Who.
01:05:44:09 - 01:05:52:11
Unknown
Where.
01:05:52:13 - 01:06:00:14
Unknown
What's the difference between therapy and coaching?
01:06:00:16 - 01:06:05:13
Unknown
I know now.
01:06:05:15 - 01:06:18:13
Unknown
In your view, yeah.
01:06:33:21 - 01:06:54:15
Unknown
Action! Yeah.
01:06:54:17 - 01:06:57:21
Unknown
Well.
01:06:57:23 - 01:08:50:13
Unknown
Nice. Okay. That makes sense. I want to come back to something you said when you were, quoting from the book you said about, sporting analogy. And I know that there's quite a lot of, comparisons that you draw from leadership, coaching and the sporting world. You still have a reason for that. Some.
01:08:50:15 - 01:09:07:08
Unknown
Of it. Fighting. Very excited to you about competitive spirit. Definitely.
01:09:07:10 - 01:09:51:13
Unknown
It doesn't sound like you sit still for very long. Or is on to the next thing. New idea. What comes next? Yeah. So what? What is next for be business fit? What? What is the next challenge or what does the next five years bring? Do you think?
01:09:51:15 - 01:10:06:13
Unknown
Really?
01:10:06:14 - 01:10:40:06
Unknown
Through.
01:10:40:08 - 01:12:36:01
Unknown
Brilliant. Brilliant. Exciting. Client and time staff. If there is someone listening and they have, thought about coaching before or about leadership coaching, but haven't ever quite, got got around to investigating and asking. Well, what would what would the thing that you would say to them be? What is it, is it to, you know, ask these questions when you're interviewing coaches to make sure you get the right or is it just it was this steps that they should make if they are interested.
01:12:36:03 - 01:12:43:16
Unknown
What.
01:12:43:18 - 01:13:01:02
Unknown
Love that. Enough are so. They always come down to sports analogy. So I found it. Don't you find, like, links? Seven coaching books? There's always. There's a great book called legacy. I don't know if you've read that one. Past, but, I've, I've, I've given that to some people over the years slightly. You know what I mean.
01:13:01:02 - 01:14:00:08
Unknown
You like sweep the. Locker room. But yeah, they do they they do come in parallel, don't they. Some of the. Yeah. The team with and the collaboration elements definitely, definitely do amazing. If you had a personal alchemy formula for success, what would the one ingredient be that you absolutely couldn't do without?
01:14:58:21 - 01:15:07:13
Unknown
I love the I love the what if simple way to. To wrap up our amazing conversation. Thank you. Sam.
01:15:07:13 - 01:15:10:22
Unknown
Thank you for the opportunity. Just.
01:15:11:17 - 01:15:18:14
Unknown
Thank you so much for listening to this episode. Bon scale. Look out for another episode dropping very, very soon.