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Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes are normally around 90 minutes long and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.
The podcast features eight members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Chef Ricky, Grinder and Bam Bam.
This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.
Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
Welcome to the Lounge Lizards podcast presented by Fabrica Five. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love of premium cigars as well as whiskey travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo. Tonight, I'm joined by Rooster, Senator, Pagoda, chef Ricky, and Bam Bam, and are planning to smoke a cigar, drink some whiskey, talk about life, and, of course, have some laughs.
Gizmo:So take this as your two hundred and eighth official invitation to join us and become a card carrying lounge lizard. We're gonna meet us here once a week. We're gonna smoke a new world cigar tonight, share our thoughts on it, and give you our formal lizard rating. We discuss the US government's claims against a major stakeholder in Habanos SA. We share a voice memo praising the improvement of non Cuban cigars over the last decade, and we make a huge lizard of the week announcement all among a variety of other things for the next two hours.
Gizmo:So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar and enjoy as we pair Yamato special edition cask strength Japanese whiskey with Oz family cigars, Karatoba, and Robusto extra. A Robusto extra on the pod tonight from Nicaragua. It's the Oz family cigar, the Caratoba and Robusto extra 55 ring gauge cigar by five and one half inches long. And boys, we have a debut tonight on the pod. Correct.
Gizmo:The first cigar from the Osganer family. We've had a lot of recommendations for the Keratoba. And actually, I believe Senator has been smoking an Osguner family cigar for one of his breakfast smokes. So we'll talk about that in a little bit. But in our hand tonight is the brand new Keratoba announced at PCA twenty twenty five when we were there.
Chef:Mhmm.
Gizmo:Just came out this past summer, and people seem to be loving it. So we're gonna try it on the pod tonight.
Bam Bam:Good looking cigar. I was impressed with it. Interesting band.
Gizmo:Got a box
Rooster:press. Very box press.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Black with this rose copper detail. It's pretty nice.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. Let's cut this thing. See, we're getting on the cold draw and the wrapper. Comes with a foot band, which was very easy to take off. They actually use the foot band to put the UPC code on it.
Gizmo:So that's pretty cool. Little utility in the foot band.
Bam Bam:That's cool. So I barely took off the cap and the draw That's
Gizmo:what I'm gonna do too.
Bam Bam:Draw is wide open, so be careful.
Gizmo:The cigar does feel light.
Bam Bam:Yeah. It's wide open.
Gizmo:So, caution to any listener, when you get a big ring gauge cigar, like a 55 and it feels light, take as little off as possible.
Bam Bam:Correct. Nice cold draw.
Gizmo:Very nice.
Bam Bam:A little berry.
Rooster:A little minty.
Gizmo:Mint, a little sear.
Bam Bam:A little salt? Not yet for me.
Gizmo:Definitely mint. How much was this? $12.
Bam Bam:Okay.
Gizmo:It's not an expensive cigar.
Bam Bam:Let's see how it does.
Pagoda:Out of my price range, just over 10.
Chef:Ladder berry.
Pagoda:20% more.
Chef:Yeah. I'm getting a lot of berry.
Bam Bam:It's nice. Yeah.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. Let's light this thing. The Oz Family Cigars Caratoba in Robusto Extra. And again, it's a 55 ring gauge cigar by five and a half inches long. It's a box press cigar coming out of Nicaragua.
Gizmo:And very odd, the box count on these, they come in 21 cigar boxes. So weird. Very odd. So the cigar is about $12, and you can find a box of these for about 215, depending on where you're looking. Or if you're supporting your local brick and mortar retailer Mhmm.
Gizmo:Probably a little more.
Bam Bam:As Senator's welding steel?
Gizmo:As he
Bam Bam:does. Correct. You know, that
Gizmo:could be a sound bite. Is that a TIG weld?
Bam Bam:Megan TIG.
Senator:Wow. Very flavorful on the light.
Gizmo:This is delicious. This is really good on the light.
Chef:Very, very good.
Gizmo:A lot of flavor there. A lot of smoke.
Bam Bam:A good combustion, but I think it's very smooth. Almost creamy. Nice velvety smoke.
Gizmo:What are you guys getting as far as flavor notes? I'm not getting anything we talked about on the That's cold for sure.
Bam Bam:Am getting a little cedar.
Senator:I get like a saltiness and a nuttiness.
Gizmo:Definitely a nuttiness for me. I agree with you. What kind of nut would you say
Rooster:it is?
Bam Bam:I would say walnut for me. It's a little on the drier side at the moment. I was
Senator:gonna say almond. I think more almond. Yeah. Because it's not super dry.
Bam Bam:Chef?
Chef:Yeah. I agree with the, with the untoasted, with the almond milk, but something that's kind of like, it's not really a roasted almond.
Bam Bam:Something raw.
Chef:Yeah. Raw almond.
Senator:I think the opposite. I feel like it's a toasted almond.
Chef:Yeah, I'm getting more of a starchy.
Bam Bam:I am getting a little bit of white pepper, I would say.
Rooster:Yeah, was going say a little spice.
Bam Bam:There's some spice there for sure. Maybe even like a touch of cayenne, something really Punchy? A little bit.
Senator:There is some kind of spice or pepper that just like your tongue tingles.
Gizmo:Just for a minute.
Senator:As soon as you take the draw initially, and then it dissipates.
Gizmo:Which I like.
Senator:Me
Gizmo:too. I'm liking that the spiciness is not hanging around. It's just a little pop, and then it's gone.
Rooster:It dissipates
Bam Bam:very It's mysteriously void of what I like in a cigar. There's no hint of sweetness of any kind, or a coffee or anything like that.
Chef:I do get a little sweetness coming through that's trying to be through that. I think it's going make its way in as we get a little further into it, but I feel it's trying to punch through a little.
Bam Bam:Giz?
Gizmo:I'm definitely I wouldn't say I'm getting some sort of specific sweetness. I wouldn't call it like a maple sugar or, you know, some sort of sugar component. But the softness of the smoke, I think it's very round. Yes. I think that's coming via I think that's coming via sweetness.
Bam Bam:Well, it that sauce or that elegance rounds it out. But for me, it's there's no sweetness there.
Chef:There's a balance. I I get the sweetness more so on the slow retro.
Gizmo:It's definitely on the retrohale.
Chef:Yeah, I get like a sweetness and some creaminess also that's really rounding and balancing the South
Bam Bam:for me.
Pagoda:But there
Rooster:is a lot flavor.
Chef:There is a lot of
Bam Bam:It's great cigar. I think it's a great
Gizmo:cigar right now.
Rooster:Good beginning. Pagoda.
Pagoda:Yeah. I'm not getting any sweeteners either. I and you know it's really interesting because when I was looking at it, thought it's like a chocolate cigar, and there's no No. Cocoa, nothing. Like
Gizmo:It is a little deceptive in that way. Yeah. Very and sensitive think that this is like a
Bam Bam:Well, you get it on the wrapper.
Gizmo:Espresso bomb.
Bam Bam:Yeah. You do get it on the aroma of the wrapper.
Rooster:It's a Sumatran wrapper. Right?
Gizmo:Yeah. Sumatran wrapper, Nicaraguan binder, and the filler is Nicaraguan and Dominican. And it comes out of the Nicaragua American cigars factory in Nicaragua.
Rooster:I think that hint of sweetness could be from the Sumatran wrapper.
Bam Bam:I know I'm getting it on the very tail end. It's a long finished cigar.
Chef:It is, yeah.
Gizmo:Trying to remember fair
Bam Bam:tail end I'm getting, maybe a little bit of berry.
Gizmo:I'm trying to remember what other cigars we've had with Sumatran wrapper and trying to create a parallel to them, but it's not coming to me what other cigars we've done. Because we've definitely had cigars with Sumatran, but I just can't remember what they were. You're going through your cigar fast.
Senator:This is super, super nutty to me. Like, I bring this nutty. I'm sitting here chewing salted roasted almonds.
Bam Bam:It's definitely on the savory side, the cigar. No doubt about it.
Senator:And the funny thing is the only other Oskinner cigar I've had, the one that I smoke in the morning, it's also a very nutty flavor profile.
Gizmo:I don't
Senator:know if that's like a thing across a lot of their line, but there's a ton of parallels between the two. This is just Fuller. But
Gizmo:So what do you guys think of the band? So we have what looks like, I guess, BAM, a copper band.
Bam Bam:Yeah. It's rose, more like a rose colored metal type of metallic color with a black backdrop. It's kinda nice. Pretty handsome. Not my thing.
Bam Bam:Overall, well done though. Not too gaudy.
Gizmo:I like the OZ in the middle.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Is that what
Pagoda:that is?
Gizmo:Yeah. For Oz family cigars. Yeah.
Rooster:So it's not a xeno. It is not a xeno.
Bam Bam:For you, it might be.
Gizmo:So, boys, this is one of four cigars in the line. This is technically called the k 55, the Robusto extra again, 55 by five and a half. There's also a Toro 50 ring gauge by six and a half called the k 50. The Robusto is 52 ring gauge by five, the k 52. And finally, there's a Gordo 60 ring gauge cigar by six inches long.
Gizmo:So this line is the fourth released by Osguner. The debut line was called the Phosphorus, came out in 2022, honoring the family's Turkish roots originally produced at Pichardo and later moved to the factory La Alianza that featured an Ecuadorian Habano wrapper and Ecuadorian Nicaraguan binder and filler. Then there was the pie synthesis, the limited edition series inspired by the the late Conno Osgoner. That's the father of Tim Osgoner. And there were two kinds yellow and red.
Gizmo:Red used a an Ecuadorian Sumatra wrapper over an all Nicaraguan corn was released in a very, very limited quantity of boxes. And there was a yellow edition of that that was, I guess, more timid. Then there was the Aramis, which was the second regular production line from Osguner, then the Firsat, which is an interesting name. Another regular production line tied to Turkish motifs. That's everything is
Senator:That's one I smoke.
Gizmo:That's the one you smoke. And what size do smoke in that?
Senator:It's a robusto. I think it's fifty fifty two by five.
Bam Bam:Okay. Is this similar to this that we're smoking? As far as flavor profile?
Rooster:Think it's milder.
Senator:No, much milder.
Bam Bam:Oh really?
Senator:It's a good morning or early afternoon smoke. It's creamy, it's nutty, but more like cashew hazelnut.
Bam Bam:Oh, like that. This is packing a decent punch.
Senator:This is super flavorful.
Gizmo:Strength, I don't think it's like beating you around. Think it's like a medium strength cigar.
Senator:Yeah, I
Gizmo:agree. Lot of flavor there, Oh but a medium
Chef:my god. The flavor on this thing is incredible. Yeah, the roasted nut is coming out.
Bam Bam:Really?
Chef:It's really coming through now for me. And the burn line,
Gizmo:it's The burn line smells great.
Chef:It's almost meaty. There's, a depth.
Bam Bam:I must have COVID because I'm not getting any.
Pagoda:What the fuck?
Bam Bam:And I want it too.
Gizmo:And finally, the fourth line Caratoba launched this year, the most full bodied blend to date from the Oz family cigars. Like we said, Sumatran wrapper, Nicaraguan binder and Nicaraguan and Dominican Republic fillers. And this cigar in Turkish means dark with Kara means dark, and then it's combined with Indonesia's Lake Toba, which I guess is a reference point for them. So that's where we get Keratoba Dark Lake. Volcanic lake.
Gizmo:Volcanic lake.
Bam Bam:Alright. Any minerality for you guys? Because I'm getting
Gizmo:a good
Pagoda:deal Yeah. Of
Chef:Get some minerality. Just a touch. It's not I wouldn't say it's it's in front here for me. I think in front, it's still really that roasted nut. I'm getting a little bit of sweetness now that's happening.
Gizmo:I'm enjoying it.
Bam Bam:Yeah. I'm okay with it. I'm not great.
Gizmo:So, Bam, that surprises me, and I'll tell you why here. I went to the Oz Family Cigars website.
Bam Bam:Oh, you're gonna go through the notes.
Gizmo:And I'm gonna read you their notes. And I think, for you, I want you to lock in on this The because I'm Oz Family Cigars Caratoba is a medium to full bodied experience.
Bam Bam:That's correct.
Gizmo:That opens with a bold burst of savory spices.
Bam Bam:That's also correct.
Gizmo:Yes. As the smoke evolves, rich notes of stewed meat and slow cooked red sauce emerge. Chef chef called it, evoking the essence of a hearty, well seasoned bolognese sauce.
Pagoda:Oh. You
Gizmo:all knew that,
Pagoda:didn't you? Let
Gizmo:me tell you something.
Senator:Mister bolognese himself.
Rooster:And he's the one
Bam Bam:that can't taste the bolognese. The bolognese. No
Chef:wonder wonder he he can can taste taste it.
Bam Bam:I made this last week.
Gizmo:Let me tell you. When I saw this note on their website today, the joy that came over me, I was like warm warm with joy.
Bam Bam:Much like the joy I felt earlier today.
Gizmo:There's been some football battles in the room. So it's continues here. It's Sumatran wrapper, adds a touch of earthiness and subtle sweetness, perfectly balancing the complexity crafted with a Nicaraguan binder and other fillers. This cigar delivers luxurious layered flavor journey from start to finish. So we have to tell the listener the Bolognese story because we have a lot of new listeners who come on.
Bam Bam:They know.
Gizmo:Who've come on board recently. Maybe haven't gone back through the catalog. So
Bam Bam:It's boring. They're good.
Gizmo:So this all started well, actually, well before I was in the picture. This was
Senator:before This is rooster should tell
Gizmo:the story. Yeah. So rooster, go ahead. I want you to retell the Bolognese story.
Pagoda:Take time. Take your time.
Bam Bam:Live from the Rock Of Gibraltar.
Rooster:Go ahead. Bam Bam actually sent us a picture that he was cooking one day, which is kind of rare. You never see
Senator:him He doesn't know the price of eggs.
Gizmo:He doesn't know know the grocery store.
Bam Bam:Or milk.
Rooster:So I asked him, I'm like, what are you making there, Bam? So he said, I'm making bolognese. I'm like, wow, that's impressive. So I said, you know, the first thing when you make a bolognese, you have to make a mirepoix, is celery, onions, and carrots.
Bam Bam:It's too complicated.
Rooster:But but, you know, you're supposed to get a nice dice. This
Gizmo:thing
Rooster:wasn't a dice.
Bam Bam:Go ahead.
Gizmo:It was chunks. It was a chunking. Was like chunks
Rooster:of carrots
Senator:to try to cut the vegetables.
Gizmo:Chunks of carrots.
Bam Bam:Eighth of an inch cuts.
Rooster:I don't think they were eighth
Pagoda:of an Do you know what an eighth inch
Bam Bam:looks like? Because I do.
Rooster:They were more like three inch pieces.
Pagoda:Yeah. Yeah. You have
Bam Bam:no idea.
Chef:Bolognese cooked on the campsite. It
Rooster:was a rough chop job.
Chef:Alright. Alright.
Bam Bam:I admit it. I admit it.
Chef:Did
Senator:you Well, the best part
Gizmo:of this
Bam Bam:processor or No. No. No. That's way too fancy for me.
Senator:The best part of this was, like, Babe was so happy about this bowl days. Rooster is shitting all over it.
Rooster:No. But just just on the just on the
Senator:side. Babe's defense, you were shitting
Rooster:all over it.
Senator:You were,
Bam Bam:you motherfucker. But you know what? It was delicious when I was
Senator:The best part was fast forward, like, a month later, and Apple came out with this iPhone commercial where the person is in the kitchen, like, making bolognese. What? It's like splattering all over the walls. Like, the vegetables look ridiculous.
Rooster:I bet his kitchen looked just like that.
Senator:Yeah. And Rooster sends a clip of this ad and goes, it's Bam Baking bolognese. You
Bam Bam:must have excluded me from that text. That's not nice.
Gizmo:Oh, man. So when I saw that today on that website, I've never seen a cigar manufacturer call out the note. So one a's.
Rooster:That was the only time Bam ever cooked, by
Gizmo:the Yeah. One
Rooster:and done. One and done.
Gizmo:Have you made it since?
Pagoda:Nope. It's it's every Sunday meal. What are you talking about?
Gizmo:Have you have
Senator:you cooked any meals since?
Bam Bam:I have cooked meals. I haven't made that, though. So their intention is to create a
Gizmo:It's savory a bolognese cigar.
Rooster:Do you taste any bolognese?
Bam Bam:Meal esque experience with the smoke.
Gizmo:I think it's more like they said stewed meats.
Rooster:Like, does it taste meaty?
Gizmo:I think as we're getting further into the cigar though, that's what we're to be expecting. Right here in the first third, I think it's slowly starting to develop. I think that salty almond thing is present right now. A little bit of sweetness, but
Bam Bam:Well, look, I'll be honest. I haven't gotten anything sweet. I probably won't get anything in this realm of sweetness. So if that's their intention for me, I think they've done it so far.
Chef:Just get the COVID test.
Bam Bam:Yeah, nothing.
Rooster:It is earthy though.
Bam Bam:Earthy, minerally a little bit.
Chef:A little woody, there's some cedar, some nuts. The burn line for me is where I'm getting the meatiness, where it smells savory.
Gizmo:It definitely smells Would you say charred? What would be the word that you'd use there?
Senator:There's a chef, wouldn't say smoked.
Chef:Smoked. There's like a smokiness, almost like when you're searing your meats and you get that Maillard reaction happening in the pan.
Bam Bam:Could be like burning tobacco.
Chef:Nailed it, man. Think you're on to something here.
Senator:Was the
Gizmo:word you just used? Maillard? Maillard. What is that?
Chef:It's the act of caramelizing the natural occurring sugars in the meat. So when you get that brown caramelization that's happening in your pan, ideally that fond that builds, you want to save that and try not to burn it. Then when you deglaze with wine or with broth or whatnot, you're scraping all that up and that flavor is ending up inside when you made your bolognese?
Bam Bam:That's horse.
Rooster:Yeah. Bam did mention that.
Bam Bam:That's correct.
Pagoda:He got that while he was just smoking the meat.
Bam Bam:Hey. There's a glass of milk out there. Wait a minute. So
Gizmo:like I said, this is a debut tonight from Osguner Family Cigars. Osguner Family Cigars as they're called here. This is a boutique brand from a gentleman named Tim Osguner, who is the former president of CAO. And that was until 2012 when they were acquired. And then he went into a ten year period out of the industry and then launched Osguner Family Cigars in 2022.
Gizmo:And he also handles US distribution with his company, Crowned Heads. So Tim is a co owner at Crowned Heads, and they handle the Os Family Cigars distribution. So this is a sister brand
Bam Bam:Cool.
Gizmo:To Crowned Heads. And the brand won Half Wheels twenty twenty two new company of the year. Cool. So early production was at Tabaclera Pichardo, and then they moved to EPCs Casa Carrios, Tabaclera Al Anzia, and then the Caratoba line, as I mentioned before, is at the Nicaragua American Cigars SA factory in Nicaragua. Couple things.
Gizmo:I went through the line. I went through the line already, the four releases and the special stuff, but I wanted to share a couple things that I thought were cool. So the proceeds from the Bosphorus, which was their first line, were pledged to Turkey Syrian earthquake relief in 2023. So remember when that crazy earthquake happened over there a couple years ago? I was bad.
Gizmo:All of the proceeds were going to that. Very bad. And then we mentioned Kano Osganer, his father, one of the lines is dedicated to him. They ran CAO together. So I guess CAO's parent company merged with STG in 2012.
Gizmo:And then, like I said, he took about ten years off and returned in 2022 with the Bosphorus. So good to be trying another one of Tim Osguner's cigars on the pod. We have done some crowned heads. And tonight, we are in with the Caratoba.
Senator:I really like what this guy's doing. Like, the amount of flavor you get, it's delivered in, like, such a soft way. You know, like, the the there's no sharpness to the smoke. It's not heavy. It just kind of floats.
Senator:It's hard to describe.
Chef:It's very velvet.
Senator:In wine, when you say a wine is soft and supple, that would be like a cab that almost drinks more like a Merlot a Merlot in body, but has the flavor of a cab. That's kind of the experience that I get here. So I'm very impressed.
Bam Bam:I mentioned that earlier. From that perspective, I think they've nailed it. I think that for me, the jury's still out if I actually still like this cigar.
Gizmo:So boys, it's time now to go to our pairing. And we are going back to Japanese whiskey. We have the Yamato special edition cask strength Japanese whiskey. It's non chill filtered, 43% alcohol by volume.
Chef:I love how everyone hears the the the clinging, and they look at me. Of course. It wasn't me this time.
Rooster:It's the scene. It's the sea.
Bam Bam:What's cursed?
Gizmo:So cheers boys. Cheers.
Chef:Cheers. Salud.
Gizmo:Good to see everybody.
Chef:The nose on this is delicious. Mhmm.
Gizmo:I like the whiskey too.
Chef:The flavor's good.
Gizmo:It's nice.
Bam Bam:Yeah? It is very nice.
Chef:Yeah. Smooth. Pagoda.
Bam Bam:He's having indigestion.
Senator:For the listener, Pagoda was holding his chest for dear life after he took a sip.
Pagoda:Where's the ice?
Bam Bam:It's it's very nice. It's smooth. Easy to drink.
Gizmo:That's a smooth whiskey. Yeah.
Bam Bam:Yeah. I'm not getting much from that either. It's so strange. Okay.
Senator:You have COVID. This is flavorful.
Bam Bam:I don't know. Maybe a hint of butterscotch maybe in the back for me.
Senator:There's even a fruit note. I get apple, like, right off the bat.
Chef:I'm getting some apple. A I get little smokiness. I get a small amount of
Senator:maple. Ben's getting stressed out.
Bam Bam:Get in his face. Trying to desperately trying to capture something.
Pagoda:Where were you yesterday? There. Here, anywhere.
Gizmo:I will say with the cigar, it does taste very good. It does. It is a nice pairing. Yeah. And honestly, I know we're gonna, you know, dig into this a little more, but based on your commentary, what you just said, senator, do you wish we were drinking a red wine with this tonight with the cigar instead of this Japanese whiskey?
Senator:No. Not based on the comment. I I was just drawing an analogy just helping myself describe what I'm experiencing here, but I do think a red wine could pair nicely with this for sure. Cabernet for sure. But I'm in no way disappointed having this with a whiskey.
Senator:I think a whiskey is also a great pairing, and I like that this particular whiskey has some sweet fruit notes that help balance out some of the dryness in the cigar, so I think it actually helps.
Chef:What I also enjoy about this whisk is that the alcohol content is high enough where that it kind of helps contrast what's happening in the cigar and sort of lighten what you're getting because the cigar is full in flavor for not for Ben, but for me it is. It's very round and very rich, if you will.
Bam Bam:I agree with that.
Chef:So I think the whiskey does a good job with the reset.
Bam Bam:I'm getting a touch of sweetness on this whiskey at the finish for me. Maybe a little bit of fruit, a little honey maybe. That's good.
Pagoda:But very subtle though.
Bam Bam:It is.
Pagoda:Yeah. It's not like overpowering at all.
Bam Bam:What do you think?
Pagoda:I think for me, what I'm really enjoying about the whiskey after having this is it kind of like, I think you used the word reset, for me, it reasonably changes my
Bam Bam:It actually proves to draw the cigar for me tremendously. Wow.
Chef:I'm happy to hear.
Gizmo:Yeah. I'm really enjoying both, separately and together. I think it's a good pairing, and I think both of them are standing alone. I have not, I don't think anybody has, but I've not put any ice nor water in in my tonight.
Senator:The drink is nice thing with this, I mean, if I remember correctly, I think the bottle said it's 86 proof.
Gizmo:Correct.
Senator:So it's not 40%. It's got a little bit Yeah. Little bit more. Mhmm. And yet, it's so smooth.
Senator:It is. Like, if I hadn't seen the bottle and you asked me, I would have said this has to be 40%. There's no way it would be any more.
Bam Bam:Do you know how much that is?
Gizmo:So normally, this bottle's about 115. Oh. We got it for $100. Okay. So I've seen it around the country.
Gizmo:Was looking at different total wine prices. I've seen it between 105 and 125. Was it
Chef:an open box on eBay?
Gizmo:Yes. I got this open box.
Bam Bam:Giz special.
Gizmo:But I will say, do like the packaging. I think the bottle's very classy. Yes. You know, this is a nice use bar it can use it again.
Bam Bam:That's correct.
Gizmo:And I like that the height is perfect for a cigar locker. If you have a locker at your lounge, this is one of those. It almost looks like a, you know, not a decanter, but the, you know, the vessel that you'd carry your whiskey in.
Bam Bam:Yeah.
Gizmo:Yeah. Outside of the bottle that's a little shorter. Yep. And it has some rope up here around the neck of the bottle. It has some really nice texture on the bottle here.
Gizmo:And then the packaging as well is really nice. It has like a foam insert, nice foam lid that's custom fit. So I was pretty impressed with it. Yeah. And again, this is cask strength.
Gizmo:So it is coming out of the cask at 86 proof. Natural color. Says here on the back, dedication to perfection has been a constant for a hundred and forty years of crafting whiskey in Japan. This patience for perfection is the force behind this incredible whiskey. Enjoy perfection.
Senator:Nice. And how did we hear about this?
Gizmo:So a listener reached out and said, you gotta try the Yamato because I guess this person is I think this person is in Asia that emailed us. Didn't leave his name or her name. There was no name on the email. Just said, you gotta try Yamato. So I figured we haven't done a Japanese whiskey in quite some time.
Gizmo:So There's a reason. Instead of reaching for the That's true. Correct.
Senator:That that's why I'm happy that someone recommended something. I mean, I feel like we tried a number of the like well known at least in The States, like Japanese whiskey brands and like most of their traditional expressions, and most were good. But then as we started buying other ones we were less familiar with The dragon. Remember the Ryujin? I broke the plastic dragon.
Senator:I mean, like,
Gizmo:that I'm still devastated by
Bam Bam:that, by the way. That put a curse in this room.
Senator:It cursed the Jets.
Bam Bam:That's correct. Today, the Giants.
Chef:That episode was so funny. I that was before I came on the Oh, with the dragon? Yeah. I remember sitting in my car and listening to it and senator just getting so upset over
Senator:this plastic dragon and throwing
Chef:it on the floor. Yeah.
Bam Bam:It's right in
Gizmo:front of me, and it broke into about a million pieces on
Senator:the floor.
Bam Bam:It was an awful drink.
Gizmo:Was terrible. Terrible.
Rooster:I had PTSD from that day.
Pagoda:Correct. Is that when you gave up alcohol? No. He stopped
Gizmo:drinking that day.
Bam Bam:Can we talk about the ash just for a moment?
Gizmo:Yeah. Sure,
Bam Bam:man. Honestly, this is beautiful structure on this. This is one of the best made cigars I think I've had in a while. I love how the stacking is almost perfect. It's parallel all the way around.
Bam Bam:Really, really well made cigar.
Rooster:I think the box press really helps that Yeah.
Gizmo:Do you guys think of the 55 ring gauge in this cigar in the box press?
Rooster:It doesn't feel like it's 55.
Gizmo:I'm finding it
Rooster:to be
Gizmo:very pleasant.
Bam Bam:It's comfortable.
Gizmo:Yeah. I think this cigar, at around 55, I think would feel very different than this does box pressed.
Senator:I've concluded any 54, 55 ring gauge cigar that's box pressed, I'm all in on. I mean, we did that what was the one we liked, the Toro recently?
Pagoda:The My Father?
Senator:Yes. Yes. My Father The My Father Blue. That My Father was what, 55 also?
Gizmo:I it think was 54. Okay, 54.
Senator:It didn't even feel like it. No. It felt so great in the hand.
Bam Bam:Very comfortable.
Senator:So I think a lot of these brands that are taking larger ring gauge and box pressing them, I think it's very smart. Agreed.
Pagoda:And they're doing a really good job, meaning the smoke output is fantastic.
Bam Bam:This combustion sauce.
Pagoda:Very easy. Very easy to smoke.
Bam Bam:It's a beautiful cigar. Honestly, it really is.
Pagoda:Like Rooster said, I'm looking for like, a little bit of sweetness would have slightly better for for me, at least.
Rooster:It would kinda round out the savoriness.
Bam Bam:Can I I will say one thing? This cigar probably wants to be paired with something and you don't ever wanna smoke this alone or with just a water. What I like about this, it seems very versatile. You can have it with almost anything, and I think it'll do great. Cabernet, a whiskey, probably a a bourbon would be great with this.
Gizmo:Yeah. Coffee. Coffee would be
Bam Bam:great too. Coffee as well. It's it's versatile that way, which I'm it's pretty impressive.
Rooster:Are you getting any other notes that you weren't getting before?
Bam Bam:No. Honestly, but after taking a few sips of the scotch, the the cigar is more pleasant. That's because my palate is now coated. Right? So I'll give it a few more puffs, but it's it's okay.
Gizmo:So, boys, we're gonna go out of order tonight. We're gonna start with a listener email because I think it's actually apropos of the conversate to the conversation we're having right now. This one's from Lizard John from Boise. He says, hi, Giz. I have a question for the lizards inspired from your discussion on the plan to rate twenty year XO rum.
Gizmo:When assigning a rating to a spirit or cigar, how much if any of that rating is inspired by an objective assessment of its virtues versus the raters subjective opinions on its flavor? I apologize if this has been discussed previously, but I'm sure there are many occasions as it was with this rum where you may not like it, but objectively speaking, someone else might, which I was the outlier on that. I absolutely hated that rum, I think. And I just couldn't stand it. I think you guys liked it, but I, you know, I was definitely an outlier.
Senator:Yeah. Because you got a honey note.
Gizmo:Yeah. The honey. It was terrible. Affended you. I'm just curious how you reconcile this dilemma with a rating as ever, cheers, and best wishes from John in Boise.
Gizmo:So a great question. Yeah. So how does everybody in this room kind of weigh the objective assessment of its virtues versus your subjective individual flavor
Senator:I'll just start by saying, clearly for Giz, childhood trauma plays a big role in his subjective rating of the flavor.
Bam Bam:That's exactly right.
Senator:I mean, I'll speak for myself. I I think with cigars and with any spirit, I mean, I'm rating based on my palate and and the flavor profile that I typically like. When I find something that isn't in my wheelhouse, but I it it kinda forces me to really appreciate what they're doing. I'm certainly as inclined to rate that high as something that's, like, narrowly in my wheelhouse. And then I think when there's something that is out of my comfort zone, but I can't find any reason to in any way be drawn or attracted to it, If I can think of or see a type of smoker or drinker that would enjoy that
Bam Bam:That has merits. I'll usually call
Senator:that out and say like, this is probably for someone who likes x, y, or z.
Gizmo:Mhmm.
Senator:But for me, it doesn't work at all. So I at least try to call that out even though that my rating is naturally gonna be lower if it doesn't do anything to even slightly appeal to me.
Bam Bam:Yeah. I think we can all find negatives and positives to every cigar, even if it's not in your wheelhouse, if it's not something that you'll smoke. But like this, if it's a beautifully made cigar, it performs beautifully, there's a lot to this that I may not like, but someone else would love.
Senator:Just the last thing I'll say also is the only cigar or spirit that I will give a very, very low rating is one that I can't think of anybody that would enjoy it. Mhmm. That's when I have no problem giving something a really low score. So I don't know if that's fair, what do you wanna call it, but I try to at least if if it doesn't appeal to me, put myself in someone else's shoes. And if I can't find any set of shoes that this would fit, then that's a shit cigar as far as I'm concerned.
Gizmo:By the way, that's what I did with that rum. I I I took maybe three sips, four sips of it. Most of it was there, And I didn't give it a terrible rating because of exactly But that that's not a terrible rating. That's pretty bad. I think a four
Bam Bam:is not bad. Yeah. Six is what? We're considering that not a recommend.
Gizmo:Not a recommend, which is where I was at. That's pretty bad. That's it's not a recommend for me, but it's not, you know, it's not a terrible spirit that's not drinkable. I understood what you guys were coming from.
Bam Bam:I see. I appreciate, I can appreciate that honesty. I think I would rather see that than, it's kind of hard to project what someone else will like, but it's really easy to know what you like and what you don't like. And rating based on that, I think makes the most sense here. Unless, what Senator said does make sense.
Bam Bam:If it's a well made product, and there's a lot of merit to it and it performs beautifully, you've gotta there's some judgment there. And I think you should be more in the positive than the negative for something like that, even if it's not your thing.
Pagoda:No. But there's a huge subjective component to it.
Gizmo:Of course.
Pagoda:And what I've realized is, you know, whether you go here or you're hanging out with your friends, different people have different palates, and a lot of people will align themselves to certain palates, say, hey, if you like the cigar, I'm more likely to have it. If you like that cigar, I may or may not like it. And overall, it's, you know and I think the idea of all of us rating differently is with our subjective experiences.
Gizmo:Correct.
Pagoda:And in addition Yeah.
Gizmo:Think the composite is an objective rating. Yeah. Because it's taking in five, six, seven guys at a given time. Right. Their subjective opinion is turning it into something that is Of what
Bam Bam:we're experiencing right now in the moment.
Gizmo:And that composite that composite, I think, is definitely more objective than subjective. That's how I've always felt about it.
Senator:For sure, as opposed to if this was a podcast of one and you're giving one rating, I mean, that's a tiny sample size.
Bam Bam:That's Gizmo's dream, by the way. Yeah. Right. Once you become a true insider, you're gonna leave us behind.
Gizmo:No shot, man.
Pagoda:He love he a YouTube channel.
Chef:Correct.
Gizmo:No shot of that either. Split wise for one. It's giz it's gizmo here. So, boys, we're coming to the end of the first third here on the Oz Family cigars, Caratoba and Robusto Extra, and the Yamato, cask strength, the special edition Japanese whiskey. What's everybody thinking?
Gizmo:I know we've been hitting it quite a bit, but where are you at right now here at the end of the first third?
Bam Bam:I think it's gotten a lot better for me. I'm almost sold on their tasting notes because on the retro, I will get that savory experience that you may have eating a protein like they described. But without taking a retro and just doing a traditional draw, it's also there. So I think they've gotten
Rooster:kind I think for $12 it's a great value
Gizmo:for what you're getting.
Bam Bam:Love how savory the cigar is.
Senator:Very savory. Mean, the funny thing is the the only cigar to really compare this to with explicit meat notes that it's going for is Saka's meat lovers cigar.
Gizmo:That's true. Yeah.
Senator:And I remember smoking that at PCA because I think they gave them out at one of the events we were at.
Gizmo:The outdoor event in the in the park. Remember?
Bam Bam:Correct.
Senator:Exactly. And that cigar was super full flavor.
Bam Bam:Mhmm.
Senator:I don't think done in as balanced a way as this. I like that this is like a more subtle approach to trying to achieve some of those types of flavor notes. Agreed. So I think, you know, like Ben was saying, like, what they're setting out to do, like they've done well Mhmm. I think this is a a much more refined approach to trying to achieve that, which I like.
Bam Bam:I kinda like that. I this is kinda leaning into an acquired taste. Not for everyone, but those that really know it and like it will really love this.
Senator:I I I don't think this is an acquired taste. I don't know.
Chef:Know, at the risk at the risk of getting COVID, I'm about to go smoke a BAM cigar because I I wanna understand what's what's
Bam Bam:happening. No. No.
Senator:I give this to almost anybody.
Bam Bam:I said I I said I'm actually liking this now.
Rooster:You ask your
Gizmo:cigar first before you get up? Mine?
Rooster:No. Chef Ricky's, he hasn't ashed
Bam Bam:it. Correct.
Rooster:I think it was like three inches.
Chef:I was just going to say I'm very, very impressed by the construction of the cigar.
Bam Bam:Yeah, agreed.
Gizmo:Especially for $12.
Senator:Yeah.
Gizmo:I mean, this is a very well made cigar.
Bam Bam:It's awesome.
Gizmo:It's hard, you can't
Bam Bam:argue It's awesome. It's awesome.
Pagoda:I'll tell you what's really interesting I was thinking. This would be such a great cigar room to smoke outdoors, and I could easily seat myself even for twelve bucks, you know, you're golfing, great smoke out, but you know, you don't want something, you know, it's very, very nice.
Bam Bam:I think the versatility in pairings is fantastic as well. You can have this with almost anything.
Gizmo:I think I agree with you in the acquired taste thing, not in that I think it's an acquired taste for most smokers, but I think, like, if I were to think of my father-in-law and his profile, I would not give him this cigar. I I don't think this is for Mhmm. A a typically mild, you know, Connecticut heavy smoker. Of course not.
Bam Bam:You know? Yeah. But I also But
Senator:most cigars aren't.
Gizmo:That's true. That But I as an example, your palate, the way that you smoke, I mean, you're smoking Connecticut sometimes in the morning, like, you have a much more wide range of palate, I think. Mhmm. You're hitting everything.
Senator:But that's most cigar smoke I'm saying, like, there's a small minority of smokers that only smoke Connecticut cigars. True. They exist. True. But that's not the majority, which is why I'm saying, like, I think most cigar smokers would definitely be able to enjoy this cigar.
Bam Bam:Yeah. I do have a lot of friends that do smoke very heavy cigars, and they may miss the nuances of this thing completely. They'll smoke through it way too fast and go on to the next one. Appreciated for what it is, and because of that, I think there's interesting nuance here. It has to be appreciated.
Chef:But because of that, I think it's a great gateway for a newbie or someone that's usually smoking the milder cigar into getting them into something that's more full flavored. So I think that makes a cigar very versatile.
Bam Bam:Correct.
Rooster:I mean, I think when a newbie starts smoking cigars, it's hard for them to get the finer nuances, so they actually end up smoking little heavier cigars because they get more satisfaction out of that. This
Bam Bam:Well, that's how we all Yeah,
Rooster:it kind of fits But the
Pagoda:it's interesting. I think the smoke output and the construction would really help a new smoker. He may not be able to enjoy a lot of
Gizmo:the, you
Pagoda:know, in terms of the flavor profile, but for sure, I think you hand this out to somebody and they'll say, oh, not bad.
Gizmo:I mean, it's definitely a chimney. There's no question about that.
Bam Bam:Oh, no doubt.
Gizmo:No question about that.
Senator:And I just think how smooth this cigar is.
Gizmo:Very, very smooth.
Senator:That's why, like, a Padron is always an amazing gateway cigar for someone who actually typically would smoke a milder cigar into something fuller flavored.
Bam Bam:Mhmm.
Senator:Because there's not like a punch of strength or nicotine, at least in the 64 line, that you're able to, like, appreciate those things. Like, you think of whenever you first had that cigar or when you've given that cigar to someone, like, it's usually someone who hasn't smoked a lot of fuller flavored cigars, and they immediately get grabbed by it. Now, they might not call out every single note in the cigar.
Bam Bam:There's a reason for that, I think. I get cocoa and coffee in the Exclusivo. I don't get that here.
Pagoda:Yeah. You don't get that at But
Bam Bam:I love this, though. I'm really loving this.
Senator:But that new smoker would not be able to call out all those notes anyway. Like, when I give a Padron to someone who's never had one
Bam Bam:But that doesn't mean
Senator:just tell me That they like cigar. That's a great cigar. If I ask them the notes, I mean, they can't tell.
Pagoda:Okay. But cocoa cocoa, you can.
Bam Bam:Put notes aside.
Senator:I'm talking about a newbie smoker.
Bam Bam:Put all the notes aside. Just listen from the point of view of savoriness and sweet and sweetness, the Exclusivo definitely leans sweeter than this. Sure. So I could see a
Senator:newbie But it's not a sweet cigar.
Gizmo:Yeah, don't think it's that far.
Senator:Yeah, it's not that far. I mean, Exo Sivo's got a lot of dryness.
Bam Bam:I wanna have an Exo Sivo after this and check it out. Yeah, why? I think the newbies gravitate more, would be more inclined to go toward that cigar because there is
Rooster:a It's a sweeter component. There are
Bam Bam:hints of sweetness, even if they can't pick it out. This is, I think
Gizmo:It's more savory.
Bam Bam:It's a step up in sophistication. It's nutty, savory. There's dryness to this, there's savoriness to it. Just different.
Gizmo:And I think the Sumatran and whatever's coming from the Dominican tobacco in this is smoothing it out in such a nice
Bam Bam:Oh, totally.
Gizmo:I actually can't believe how smooth this is.
Bam Bam:And that's the thing too, because it's so sweet, so smooth,
Senator:That's why I'm getting at I'm a novice smoker could appreciate this. You can make
Bam Bam:that argument.
Senator:Sure. The last third of a Padron for a novice smoker, that's where it might get a little full for them, where maybe they're a little bit uncomfortable, where this cigar, if this keeps up, I mean, this is really easygoing for how much flavor
Bam Bam:it Very easygoing.
Rooster:Yeah. The flavor hasn't really changed that much for me.
Gizmo:Not at all. It's kinda stayed consistent.
Bam Bam:I think it's gotten a little bit better for me.
Pagoda:And for me, it's just been pretty much the same throughout.
Rooster:Yeah. The initial spice isn't there.
Bam Bam:No. It's gone.
Rooster:Like that little pepper that we were getting. Yeah. That you're not getting.
Bam Bam:It's very good.
Senator:Yeah. Right. I wouldn't expect this to change only because the other Osganer cigar I've had, it's consistent all the way through.
Bam Bam:How was the draw on that one that you had, the Robusta? Tighter than this or open like this?
Senator:No, it's a little smaller ring gauge, a little tighter.
Rooster:What made you pick that up?
Senator:When we were at PCA, some sampler, one of those was in it, and I was like, it really piqued my interest. I was like, wow. This would I think I lit it late in the afternoon, and I was like, this would make a really good morning cigar. But you have one, you never know. Is it a fluke?
Senator:Is it not? So I had ordered just a five pack with some other cigars I was ordering, and then wanted to start trying it in the morning, and I really enjoyed it. It's really good. It's super nutty, but, like, creamy. Like, creamy cashew, hazelnut.
Senator:Really nice with coffee.
Bam Bam:Perfect for a midday smoke.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. It's time to go into some news. And I I this is a shocking one, and we've been talking about Habanos in not so great of a light the last few weeks. So, obviously, the news report came out from the Madrid based NGO, the nongovernment organization, prisoners defenders, that Cuba was using prison labor, involuntary prison labor to make cigars that obviously came out. Habanos confirmed that, said it was voluntary, symbolic, etcetera.
Gizmo:We processed all that on the bottom. Right? This one's wild because now what? I couldn't believe it. The United States Department of Justice came out and announced, without talking about Cupid cigars or or any sort of Habanos or anything like that, that a man named Chen Zi is on the run.
Gizmo:Okay? This guy has been accused by The US authorities of massive fraud.
Bam Bam:And espionage. And
Gizmo:and they actually seized 15,000,000,000 in Bitcoin from his massive pig butchering scam going on in Cambodia, also where they're using forced labor. So this is an absolutely crazy story. So I'm gonna read you from the New York Post. I have a bunch of stuff to talk to you about here, but this is wild. So the Justice wait, Department
Bam Bam:wait, Pig butchering?
Gizmo:Yes. And? Cambodia. Cambodia. Cambodia.
Gizmo:Yeah.
Bam Bam:And Bitcoin.
Gizmo:Gen They seized $15,000,000,000 in Bitcoin Alright. From him and his associates and his companies, which is, by the way, the biggest seizure of cryptocurrency in the history of the United States government. Wow. Actually, to the point where it shook crypto markets so it was pretty wild because that amount of money moving from wallet to wallet, especially into the United States Department of Justice, the Treasury wallet was a big thing because of course, at some point they're going to try to liquidate that and sell it and probably make some of these people whole who have been, to use that terrible term, pig butchered. We'll talk about that in a second.
Gizmo:But, you know, it's a it's a pretty wild story here. So the Justice Department has seized 15,000,000,000 in Bitcoin from a global pig butchering fraud operation that a Chinese born businessman orchestrated with forced labor camps in Cambodia using the ill gotten gains to snap up art artwork, luxury watches, and pricey real estate. Of course, potentially Habanos. Prosecutors in Brooklyn Federal Court on Tuesday charged 37 year old Chen Vincent Zhi, z h I, the founder and chairman of Prince Holding Group with alleged wire fraud, bribery, and money laundering conspiracy stretching over the past decade. Authorities alleged Chen directed phone farms in Cambodia where trafficked workers were forced to execute what the DOJ called pig butchering, slang for a scam that lures lures fattened up victims online with police for financial help, fake romantic relationships, or promises of lucrative crypto investments.
Gizmo:So let me lay out what pig butchering is. Are you guys familiar with what it is? Have guys heard of this before? No. I'm
Chef:still waiting for the pig.
Gizmo:Okay. So this is how the pig butchering thing comes. It's a weird term that they use, but the idea is that the perpetrator sends out some sort of message to you. It's an email, and most commonly, we're all probably getting them. I know I get a few a week.
Gizmo:It's a confusing message that says something like, Hey Karen, you know, have you gone to the doctor today? And it has nothing to do with you, it's totally random, and then you engage it, I'm not Karen, you have the wrong number, and then the person continues to engage. So of course, if they get one in 1,000 or one in 10,000 people to start having a conversation, it creates this opportunity to develop trust and then take it further from there. So the idea with pig butchering is
Senator:And this happens via email or text?
Gizmo:Everything. Text and email.
Chef:If you keep talking to me after I tell you I'm not caring, I'm just deleting and
Gizmo:blah blah. And you're maybe not the one in one thousand who took the bait on this. You know, honestly, this was a big thing during COVID because people were so desperate for human connection that this was a real opportune time for these scammers to take advantage. So here's what happens. It's a long game that they're playing here.
Gizmo:It's not a short term thing. So what they do is they engage this person. They create trust. And like they said, it's either promising some sort of financial gain, maybe pretending that it's a love interest. They're going to fly them out.
Gizmo:They're going to do these other things. And over a long period of time, find with this piglet, they fatten this piglet up. And then when the moment comes, they slaughter the pig and completely clear out everything that they were able to get their hands on. So this is situations where folks were giving them access to their bank accounts, access to their crypto wallets. One CEO of a Kansas bank fell in love with someone and sent $50,000,000 What?
Gizmo:Of the bank's assets to one of these folks in Cambodia, and the bank was forced to close.
Chef:That is asshole.
Bam Bam:I hope he's in prison.
Gizmo:I'm assuming he is.
Bam Bam:Good.
Gizmo:But that's what pig butchering is. So apparently Jesus Christ.
Senator:Stupid are Jesus Christ.
Chef:Took the words right
Bam Bam:out of my mouth. I don't understand.
Senator:I mean, this stuff normally happens to elderly people.
Gizmo:That's that's a
Senator:big completely sane adults engaging and sending money to random people.
Gizmo:Listen, man, I think that, you know, you have to acknowledge how lonely some folks are. You know, there's a lot of folks that are lonely, man. I'm Mr. Klein.
Bam Bam:I'm not gonna do it.
Senator:I think Dan was way too.
Bam Bam:I'm not gonna do it.
Gizmo:So this gentleman, Chen Ji, you know, Chinese Cambodian founder of Prince Holding Group, is a significant shareholder in Habanos S. A. This gentleman is the guy who put the the deal together to purchase Habanos S. A. In 2020, half of it, obviously, the other half owned by the Cubans.
Gizmo:And it closed the deal closed in 2021.
Bam Bam:That number was at, 5,100,000,000.0 or something like that?
Gizmo:I don't think it was 5,000,000,000. 3,000,000,000. I think it was somewhere close to the 1,000,000,000 mark. I'm not certain.
Bam Bam:Is that right?
Gizmo:Yeah. Oh, I thought it more than Because if you remember at the time, the revenue of Habanos at that time was not near what it is now. This is the guy who is responsible
Bam Bam:For our price increases.
Gizmo:The price increases and the issues that have come after COVID as far as pricing goes.
Senator:I can see where Gizmo's head's going.
Gizmo:Oh, yeah. So it's pretty shocking that Habanos in three or four weeks here has ended up in an absolute I don't even know how they got into a worse position, but this could not be worse for them right now. Well because the United States government is chasing down the effective owner of Habanos, you know, through his company's Prince Holden.
Bam Bam:Now don't you think they can eliminate or terminate this partnership because of this legally?
Gizmo:I don't know how you how you do that. I mean, there's no I I don't
Bam Bam:know if any deal triggers He's that would indicted. Not guilty, I guess. Not yet.
Gizmo:Yeah. I mean, it's crazy. At at one point, apparently, he was bragging in messages that his pig butchering scam, and this is from the United States government, was bringing in $30,000,000 a day. What happened
Senator:if they seize all of his assets? So, like, can the US government become an How owner of hilarious. Indirectly. How ironic.
Gizmo:So I I don't know how this guy you know, he's only 38, 37 years old. He obviously lives in Cambodia. So Cambodia had a real problem during COVID. You know, they had a lot of online businesses, online casinos, in person casinos. China also had these same issues.
Gizmo:And of course, the revenue stopped, right, when COVID happened. So this scam centers, the call centers that they developed, you know, and it really kind of came to what it is now through COVID. You know, that's when it really started, trying to find these folks trying to find new ways to get money, you know, and it ended up that they were scamming folks. And now these scams that Cambodians are inflicting on people around the world, it's a significant piece of their GDP. Of Cambodia's GDP, it's a significant piece of fraud, fraud and theft.
Gizmo:Are they using certain social media? I think I mean, I personally have gotten messages on WhatsApp Telegram. Telegram.
Bam Bam:I've gotten them
Gizmo:You know, text message.
Bam Bam:Viber, WhatsApp,
Gizmo:iMessage. So apparently this guy, you know, obviously he's very elusive. So, you know, this guy, I've only figured out who this guy was, obviously before all this happened through, you know, help with some some sources and digging deep online. This guy is not the face of Habanos. It's, you know, there's a couple pictures of him online.
Gizmo:It was always a guesswork thing. But obviously now and and shout out to cigars-connect.com. They put all this together in a very clean way that I could share it with you guys. Because, again, the New York Post, you know, AP, Reuters, all those folks, obviously not talking about Cuban cigars. There's a bigger piece of this in Cuban cigars.
Gizmo:But for what we do here, the owner of half of Habanos SA is currently on the run from the United States government for stealing from
Rooster:So is there hope that
Gizmo:the Tens of thousands.
Rooster:That the d 4 comes down to $15?
Gizmo:It doesn't look like it, Russo. No. So what are your thoughts on this, guys? I mean, this is a crazy story.
Bam Bam:It's a big one they wrap your head around.
Gizmo:This guy is responsible for the biggest crypto seizure ever in the history of the United States government, $15,000,000,000. And they have I mean, you can read the press release on justice.gov, United States official website. I mean, it is a serious press release, and they have the indictment attached there. Everything's there. The title is chairman of Prince Group indicted for operating Cambodian forced labor scam compounds engaged in cryptocurrency fraud schemes.
Gizmo:So they they unsealed that indictment in federal court in Brooklyn, New York. So I don't know what's gonna happen here with this, but they, you know, obviously have a 127,000 some odd Bitcoin right now in the treasury funds, and they're gonna use those funds, I guess, to try to make some of these folks that have been taken whole, you know, in these scams.
Rooster:Send the rest of the
Gizmo:money to Cuba. So the other parallel that's interesting too is that the forced labor thing that's also happening in Cambodia. That's a big piece of this. Apparently, they carried out these schemes by trafficking hundreds of workers and forcing them to work in compounds in Cambodia and execute the scams often under the threat of violence. The compound the compounds housed vast dormitories surrounded by high walls and barbed wire like a prison and functioned as violent forced labor camps.
Gizmo:The defendant, Xi, was directly involved in managing the scam compounds and maintained records associated with each one, including ledgers tracking profits and what fraudulent schemes were run out of which compounds, automated call centers that use thousands of phones and millions of mobile telephone numbers to facilitate the various fraudulent schemes. So I again, anybody interested in reading more about this can do that. But it's a bad few weeks for Habanos SA. And, again, it's unfortunate that these are the stories that we're talking about right now, and these are the people that are running the Cuban piece of our hobby that we love so much. Great.
Gizmo:Wow. Pico. How
Bam Bam:can I make that happen?
Senator:Dakota's just worried about the impact of his crypto Correct.
Pagoda:Yeah. It's gonna be interesting to see what really happened with this, right, being mean, they could about those
Gizmo:next It's a great question, and if they get this guy, if they catch him.
Senator:But hang on. This guy had to do that with other investors.
Gizmo:There's a lot of other people, and there's a lot of businesses,
Bam Bam:and there's
Gizmo:a I lot of think Habanos, as far as the scale of Habanos in this whole thing, I think that's peanuts. I don't even know if the United States government is aware of that. They probably aren't, and they don't care because it might be such a small piece. But obviously, for what we do, it's interesting. But it's really the fact that, you know, targeting Americans and other folks, you know, stealing money from them, liquidating wallets and bank accounts and all these things, I mean, it's it's just crazy.
Gizmo:So this is a Cambodian rapper. Are
Chef:any of you guys so in love that you would send $50,000,000 to the person you love?
Bam Bam:Hell no. Hell yeah.
Pagoda:It's OPM, right? I love his wallet.
Gizmo:Yeah. I mean, that's a crazy story. So anybody who wants to hear more about pig butchering, check out John Oliver's thing on that on YouTube. Pretty good segment on the whole story, pig butchering, and a lot of stuff there. So, anyway, it's unfortunate, but, you know, Hambanos is having a rough few weeks here, so we'll see what happens.
Gizmo:We'll keep you updated if this guy is convicted and found. Apparently, he's up to forty years in prison here in The United States if he's.
Chef:That's not if
Bam Bam:he's found.
Gizmo:If he's found. So we'll see what happens. So, boys, we are coming now to the end of the second third on the Oz family cigars, Caratoba and Robusto Extra and the Yamato special edition cask strength Japanese whiskey. What's everybody thinking?
Bam Bam:I think the pairing has turned out to be very good. There's a good richness to both of them. They complement each other nicely as well.
Pagoda:But I I'm not wowed. I like, I don't know. I no. Yeah. I was just thinking about Japanese whiskey in particular, and I haven't had neither Hibiki nor Centauri for a pretty long time.
Pagoda:And but, you know, I've really enjoyed both of them, even Hibiki and even Centuri. For some reason, I'm not I don't know. Like, I just haven't been able to pinpoint what it is, but I'm not enjoying it to that extent. I'm like distracted now. I It's forgot what I was
Chef:not me.
Gizmo:Whatever's going on in that seat. It's that seat. It's the microphone with the glass.
Chef:Pagoda, you're right handed, aren't you? What? Are you right handed?
Bam Bam:I am.
Chef:Yeah. Yes. That's you're using your yeah. That's well, for in my case, I'm usually using my left hand.
Pagoda:Left hand. Right. Yeah. So was that's yeah. And then
Rooster:That's it.
Pagoda:Yeah, either way. I'm not getting very, or maybe today, like, I'm a bit off. And like, even between the cigar and the thing, I don't feel that it's really fulfilling my palate to the extent I'd like it to.
Gizmo:I would say coming into the last third here, it's definitely moved a little more savory than I would like. Yeah. I think some of the elements of what I was getting in the first two thirds have gone. I think what I was talking to you guys about, about what I felt was rounding the smoke out, the flavor being very smooth, I think that has, there is a little bit of an edge to it now.
Bam Bam:Well, it's
Gizmo:And there's a dryness.
Bam Bam:It's gained in strength.
Gizmo:There's a dryness now that I'm not really appreciating. That's my experience.
Senator:Yeah. So my experience is it's way drier at the end of the second, third than it was the rest of the cigar. And the note I described earlier of roasted almond is now like a very dry walnut. This is drier than I ever really like, so I'm not enjoying this as much as I was before. So I'm just bummed.
Senator:It's like taking a turn for the worse for me.
Bam Bam:Do you think the spirit's holding up the cigar?
Senator:I I think the spirit is definitely helpful because it's sweet, but I don't think anything can really help the level of dryness that I'm getting right now. I think
Chef:the only thing that could help it is a slightly sweeter spirit. Maybe a bourbon, maybe a rum. But yeah, I'm kind of in the camp where it's become a little bit drier, but it really hasn't really changed. I was hoping that by this point, we'd get more of that sort of it'll start leaning a little sweet. Maybe we get some maple, maybe we get some cocoa or something.
Chef:And I know everyone else was saying that earlier, but I was kind of hopeful that as we progressed it would start to develop and it really hasn't.
Rooster:It's a bit one dimensional.
Bam Bam:It's not their intention to do that either. Sure.
Rooster:It's still earthy.
Senator:I'm also not getting like I mentioned the sake of meat lovers comparison before, I'm not even getting any kind of meat notes that they're describing right now. This is just super dry and like a walnut type flavor. I don't get any smoked meat or any of the stuff we were talking about earlier.
Gizmo:I'm getting a little smokiness if I really focus on the end of the finish as it's kind of really dissipating. But not meat. Yeah. But it's just smoke. Not smoke like cigar smoke, but smoke from a grill or char.
Gizmo:I'm getting that at the very end of the finish. You know, to everyone But What is
Senator:point here? Red sauce?
Gizmo:Yeah. There's no red sauce. There's no bolognese. Bam. There's no bolognese.
Bam Bam:Thank god.
Gizmo:No bolognese at all.
Bam Bam:No marinara.
Gizmo:Yeah. It's it's an interesting turn that this has taken here.
Bam Bam:I'm not getting the ultra dryness that you guys are getting yet. I'm still finding it to be fairly smooth.
Pagoda:Pretty dry for me. Yeah. The other thing that I know, like from a parent perspective as well, I would, you know, I would have rather something which was less sharper at this point. Maybe it's time for me to put some water.
Gizmo:So you're saying this is too sharp?
Pagoda:I think it's becoming very dry, and then when I'm taking this sip, I'm feeling a little bit of the heat in the back. And so while it has a medium to long finish on the thing, which is kind of really helping, it's definitely helping but not to the extent I would like. And that's really on my point earlier. There's something
Bam Bam:I think it's just enough help. Think it's getting a boost just as much as it needs.
Gizmo:The thing that's surprising to me about you saying that, and maybe this would be countered by the sweetnesses, but you saying that you wished we were drinking a bourbon, most of the bourbons are closer to 50%, 100 proof. That's definitely gonna be a hotter drinking spirit.
Bam Bam:Correct.
Gizmo:With some sweetness Or
Pagoda:a rum. Actually, you know, like I think a floridocania would have been great with this.
Senator:I agree. Yeah. Most rums would pair well with this Correct. Cigar to help
Gizmo:Alright, boys. Let's go now to some listener email. We're gonna start with one from Lizard Dane. And Lizard Dane says, hi, guys. Have been listening to your podcast now for eighteen months, and I love it.
Gizmo:I've gone back and listened to all of the episodes from episode one. My first love was Cuban cigars, but recently, I find myself seeking out more non Cuban cigars that have the aroma, the flavor, and medium body. Last year, I recommended that you guys try out Byron Elegantis, and you guys had liked it a lot. So he makes another suggestion. I highly suggest that you guys try out the Byron Grand Poema.
Gizmo:Another Byron suggestion. You guys remember that cigar? It was pricey. So I don't think any of us have reached for it again, but it did get a very good rating.
Bam Bam:Yeah.
Gizmo:So thanks to Lizard Dane for that. Let's go to another one now. This one is from Lizard Julio. He says, dear lizards, I'm a recent convert to the lizard life. And before I get to my question, I just wanted to say how grateful I am that you've made listeners like me feel like honorary members of this rare and slightly unhinged.
Gizmo:What do you think about that, Bam?
Senator:You
Gizmo:think? Circle of friends you've built. Whether I'm lighting lighting up a stick of my own or stuck in traffic pretending I'm lighting it one up with all of you, the pod always feels like time well spent in my day. Now my question is this. How do you all handle oral hygiene and keep the smell of smoke from tagging along on your clothes after a substantial smoke session?
Gizmo:I'm sure each of you has your own ritual, maybe a secret lizard Listerine recipe that's equal parts Macallan 12 and Febreze. But I'd love to hear your tricks for staying fresh enough to still be welcomed home by the wife. With while us audience members listen from afar, it's good to feel like there's always a chair waiting for us to join you all for a smoke and a chat. Take care, lizard who we are.
Bam Bam:It's a good question.
Gizmo:Great email and a great question.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Yeah. Change the wife.
Gizmo:Wow. That's that's typically a rooster suggestion.
Bam Bam:That's an option.
Gizmo:Swap out the wife.
Bam Bam:Sleep naked. Also an option. That's definitely a BAM approved activity.
Rooster:Correct. I think most of the times, by the time we get home, our wives are sleeping.
Pagoda:That's
Gizmo:it's true. It's kind
Rooster:of not much of an issue.
Gizmo:Yeah. I'm lucky my wife doesn't mind the smell of smoke. Here's a question for you, guys.
Bam Bam:Yeah. You could go into your garage
Rooster:Yeah.
Bam Bam:Directly
Gizmo:Mhmm.
Bam Bam:And change or downstairs or go upstairs. What do you do?
Gizmo:So I honestly if I'm gonna change, it's just for comfort. I'm gonna change out of my jeans and into something more comfortable.
Pagoda:Mhmm.
Gizmo:I'm not doing it for any other reason shorts. Then I'm not doing it for any other reason than comfort. You know, if I walk into the bedroom and the clothes that I came out of this podcast with tonight, there's no we're not going to a conversation about it. You know, Mrs. Gizmo doesn't mind.
Gizmo:But I am very diligent about my oral hygiene. You know, I really take care of that. I'm very concerned about that. We could talk about that in a second. But as far as my clothes go, I just kind of do my thing, not really influenced by Okay.
Gizmo:What's going on in my Yeah.
Bam Bam:So I'll go right down to the basement. I walk in and go right back downstairs. So I'm up, in, and then down. Change all this, take a quick rinse, and then do the whole oral hygiene thing before I go back upstairs.
Gizmo:So your clothes never enter the No. Kind of the domicile where everybody's at?
Bam Bam:Where the kids and the wife are?
Gizmo:No. Yeah.
Senator:I'm in the same boat. I actually, in one of my garages, have a separate wardrobe of just cigar clothes.
Gizmo:Is that true?
Bam Bam:I'm serious. Know He's converted the senator lounge to his own wardrobe room.
Gizmo:That's interesting. I did not know that, man.
Senator:No, literally. So you
Gizmo:have a, like, a rack there with clothes on it?
Senator:No joke. A rack with hangers, with clothes, everything.
Bam Bam:So you have separate smoking attire. I do. Yeah. That's No joke. That's next level right there.
Senator:That's That's pretty the house, I'm wearing something, I go down in the basement into the garage. I take those clothes off. I put them down. I take something off. One of my I put on some cigar clothes, and that's it.
Gizmo:It's like the lizard mister Rogers.
Chef:That's exactly what I was thinking. I started laughing.
Bam Bam:You know what? That's true. All
Chef:I hear in my head, it's a beautiful day
Pagoda:in the neighborhood. Hi, folks.
Chef:Hi, folks. And today we're going to smoke a Padron exclusive. Here's a video of how it's made.
Gizmo:Pagoda, what's your routine?
Bam Bam:Right to bed. To
Rooster:bed. No.
Pagoda:For me, it's easy. You know, I just go. My laundry room, I just change.
Bam Bam:Yeah. You also have a good changing area downstairs. And
Pagoda:I rinse and
Bam Bam:Nice.
Rooster:Brewster, what about you? Nothing different.
Bam Bam:Right to the living room for a month.
Senator:Just go
Rooster:in there. Light up another cigar and go to bed.
Bam Bam:That's right.
Rooster:No. I just take my clothes off and change into whatever I'm gonna wear for the night. You know, she's usually asleep by then.
Gizmo:So I get it's
Rooster:not much of an issue.
Bam Bam:I have a issue going to bed after this. We're surrounded. We're enveloped in smoke right now. My hair smells. Beard, your beard, there's definitely an aroma there, I think.
Gizmo:Yep.
Bam Bam:I have to get a rinse. That's a must for me before bed. Just a quick rinse, not a full shower, but at least rinse off. Yeah. Maybe a little soap here and there.
Gizmo:Nine times out of 10, I'm agreeing with I'm with you on that. I'm I'm taking a rinse before unless I'm like super tired for some reason. Sure. But I'm nine times out of 10, I'm taking a shower.
Rooster:Yeah. But definitely rinsing your mouth with Listerine Oh, yes.
Gizmo:You a gotta do that. Yeah. So I'm I'm super crazy about my oral hygiene at night. So my routine is this I have a water pick. So I do the water pick at full intensity with warm water first, then I floss.
Gizmo:And then I use my Oral B, you know, with my my toothpaste, and I do a full two minutes on that. That's And my
Pagoda:tongue cleaner helps.
Bam Bam:No mouthwash?
Gizmo:I use my toothbrush on my tongue.
Bam Bam:Yeah, me too.
Gizmo:I don't use mouthwash. Really? Yeah, my dentist said don't use the mouthwash, just do your normal routine. Because there is sugar components or sugar replacement in Yeah. In the Listerine.
Gizmo:Like, if you leave your Listerine open, like, it'll have ants in a couple days. Like, the ants will find it. Mm-mm. Like, there's a lot of sugar in that.
Bam Bam:Interesting.
Pagoda:Well, that explains my cavities. No dessert for me. It's Listerine.
Gizmo:The other thing I wanna share with listeners too, I think this is very important, especially if you're smoking a lot, is instead of going to the dentist twice a year, I go four times a year. So my dental insurance covers two of them. I pay for two of them out of pocket, the cleanings, but I go four times a year just to stay as far ahead of it as I can. Quarterly visit. Yeah.
Gizmo:I go quarterly. That's that's my routine.
Pagoda:You do have a lot of time on your hands.
Gizmo:Yeah. Lot of time.
Pagoda:Yeah. Mhmm.
Gizmo:Anybody else on oral hygiene? What about you, chef?
Chef:I have a a garment hanger in my just hooks, not a separate wardrobe in my foyer. You know, if I come to the
Gizmo:lounge No, it's just It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood.
Chef:If it's a hoodie I have on or a jacket or something, I hang that up on one of those hooks and let it air out. And, you know, rinse at the very least if it's been a long night and maybe a lot of drinks, wash my face because I have a beard. That helps with that. And I have long hair. So, you know, that's also important.
Chef:I wash my hair frequently, almost daily. And then for the oral hygiene, yeah, just a good two minute brush. I don't have mouthwash. We use flossing picks and yeah, tongue scraping. That's about it.
Chef:Nothing.
Gizmo:What's your oral hygiene routine, Senator? Brush, mouthwash,
Senator:and floss, I mean. It's not rocket science. Same.
Pagoda:I think Rooster smokes is the guy in the bed.
Rooster:I would like to.
Gizmo:I think that's the only room in his house he doesn't smoke in.
Bam Bam:I'm sure you have.
Senator:Have you smoked in your bedroom ever? Rooster flosses with a tobacco leaf.
Bam Bam:That's correct.
Senator:He takes it from the stripping room, breaks it up.
Rooster:No. I have not smoked in the bedroom.
Gizmo:That's is that the only room you've not smoked in? And the bathroom. And the bathroom. So you smoked in the living room, the kitchen, the basement?
Rooster:Well, the living room and kitchen is just one big one.
Gizmo:Interesting. So great question here from
Bam Bam:Ball.
Gizmo:Lizard Julio. We really appreciate it. Alright, boys. And now it's time for lizard of the week presented by our friends at Bon Roberts.
Senator:The name's Bond. Bon Roberts. Hello, James.
Gizmo:So I am very excited to announce we are very excited to announce that Bon Roberts has come on as our presenting sponsor for Lizard of the Week, and now every Lizard of the Week is gonna win 10 beautiful cigars from Bon Roberts. Incredible. And we're looking at these two beautiful boxes in front of us, the petite one zero nine and the one zero nine, and every lizard of the week is gonna win one of these boxes every single week. Can you believe it?
Bam Bam:Bond. That's incredible. Pagoda, are
Gizmo:you gonna enter? Of course. I hope you win.
Pagoda:No. I know. I I do really wanna be a lizard of the week.
Gizmo:So, you know, all you have to do is send us a voice memo, an email, whatever you choose. And tonight's winner is the cigar soldier, and we're gonna play a voice memo from him right now. But first, we gotta end this, end the bomb theme here. I can't wait for someone
Senator:to write in lizard gold finger. I can't wait.
Gizmo:I can't wait till we get the cease and desist from Barbara Broccoli or whatever her name is who owns the James Bond thing. But again, we have to thank Bond Roberts. And now let's go to our lizard of the week, Cigar Soldier and his voice memo.
Senator:Hey, guys. Lizard Mitch. I'm smoking a stoic courage on my patio this beautiful Saturday afternoon, and it kinda got me thinking to offer my 2¢ on your ongoing Cuban versus New World discussion that's been happening throughout the summer. Now to preface, I've been smoking cigars, like, going on coming up on fifteen years, and I've I've had pretty much the entire Cuban catalog from the regular production line. So every time you guys review a Cuban, for the most part, it's more of just a reminder of, oh, know, shit, I should pull that out the tower.
Senator:It's been a a few months or a year since I've had that. Let's see how it's doing. So I love the Cuban episodes for that aspect. For the new worlds, it's kind of the opposite. Just given the nature of the new world market, there's so many lines and brands that I've never even heard of that you guys will review and then I'll be curious when you guys give it a bunch of nines and tens and I'll go try it.
Senator:Like the Stoic Courage, for example. That kind of gets a broader point going in my head of, you know, just thinking back fifteen years ago when I'm sure a lot of you guys started getting into cigars and at least when I did, it's, the industry looked a lot different in the new world market, right? Like the new world cigars were going through that terrible phase of everything was 63 gauge plus coming out and so many of cigars were full strength Nicaraguan pepper bombs and everyone wanted to get their hands on Nicaraguan cigars and it was just full strength all the time. And that was the entire like craze at the time. The Liga Pravadas were taking off and Dominican cigars were starting to be viewed as a little safer, little more boring, with the exception of, you know, you have your powerhouses in Davodoff in terms of like establishment.
Senator:Like it's not a powerful cigar, but they were a dominant presence in the market. Right? And with the exception of, you know, Padron and Opus X and La Flora de Minicana, Liga Privada, those were kind of your powerhouse big strength cigars. And then you have a lot of more mild stuff on the New World side. And this was in like, you know, early twenty tens.
Senator:But in my opinion at least, the medium body cigars in the New World market kind of sucked at the time. Like they weren't that great. There were some, but it was just I felt like a lot of them missed the mark. Right? And Cuban cigars were just the perfect craft perfect example of a medium body cigar back then.
Senator:That twang from the salty element mixed with the creaminess and earthiness that so many Hibanos are known for encompassed the perfect expression of what a medium body cigar should be. And they were a bargain. Like, back when I got into this game, d fours, a box of them cost me $200. Lucy's for 25 were $3.30, and Monty two's were, like, $2.50 for 25. It was just an insane steal, and I would argue totally undervalued at the time.
Senator:And now, of course, they've, like, tripled in price and gone completely the other direction, but that's not really the point. The point is if I wanted a medium bodied cigar, I'd go Cuban. And if I wanted a full bodied cigar, I'd go Padron Family Reserve or 1926 because a lot of the Cuban only guys would talk about how the Bolivar Bellicoso Fino was a strong, strong cigar, and I just never saw it as anything more than medium, maybe medium full at best. But when you cut your Correct. You know, Padron Family Reserves, like, is there's just a different level to it.
Senator:It's it was just superior in that weight class. Now you had cigars in the new world market coming onto the scene at the time, like Warped and La Palina, and their marketing tactics paid homage to the Cuban cigars. They would, you know, brand themselves as Cubanesque, but the blends themselves didn't really scratch that itch. They kind of missed the mark. And they were boutique lines, so they were more expensive.
Senator:So it's just kind of a tough sell when you're marketing yourself as a Cuban Cuban S cigar, but it cost $17 when I could go get a D4 for eight and it was better. So it was just kinda like, you're you're punching above your weight class here and it's it's not going well. But that was back then. Right? So the last five years and up to today, I think that's totally flipped on its head.
Senator:The new worlds have completely caught up in the medium bodied space. Just in the last year alone, you guys have discovered Fabrica five, Aladino, Stoic, and they've managed to not necessarily recreate the flavor that we love, but they provide you elements and snippets of this or that in a consistent, accessible, and affordable format. Senator, I know you you mentioned on the El Adino Cameroon Robusto episode that, yeah, it's not a d four. It never will be. But there is something about that cigar that gets you in that headspace and that joy you feel when you have a d four enough to a point where it can become a substitute.
Senator:That's not trying to be a perfect clone, but there are snippets and little hints and twinges along the way that
Senator:A man who understands.
Bam Bam:That's well said. You did
Gizmo:say it was the d four. Well, he did.
Senator:Is. No, you I both think that
Bam Bam:is You did. Thanks for the I'll go back to the gym.
Senator:Blends getting better over the years and more experience and refinement. New worlds have become so much better in the medium bodied space. And that Cuban edge has completely dwindled down. Pound for pound, I'd still probably argue that a Cuban Pure is the perfect medium bodied cigar. But when you factor in price, accessibility, consistency, it it really has lost its edge.
Senator:And, you know, at this point, I'd rather just smoke New Worlds that I've managed to capture what I love about Habanos and put their own twist on it because it's just easier, like, living in The States. Right? It's I can still get Cuban cigars, and I have friends across the pond that can help me out, but it's just so much more work than it was a year ago for just not that much better of an experience, if better at all. So know I really want
Bam Bam:be honest.
Senator:I'm thinking you guys give me some
Gizmo:It's the first airplane on the pod.
Senator:Minutes here on the pod. But I just it really got me thinking about how the market's evolved in the new world space the last fifteen years. It's been kind of trial by error, and I think they've really caught their stride in the medium bodied space while also refining what they do great in the the full bodied spectrum and the mild. So it's just my 2¢. But and I love all cigars.
Senator:Always will. Let me know what you guys think. I appreciate your time.
Gizmo:Great voice memo.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Very
Rooster:well I think was spot on. Everything that he said is the truth. Yeah. You I think we agree with everything that
Bam Bam:he's He's learned a lot from this podcast.
Senator:No, he's got a good palate, and clearly
Bam Bam:he's been
Senator:smoking for a while. I think the commentary is excellent. It is true. You know, what he's saying really especially resonates in this week for me because last night, I lit a Davidoff late hour Churchill, I which haven't had in a very long time.
Gizmo:When did you buy that? Because I know we talked about this.
Senator:Oh god,
Gizmo:forgot This is like about four years.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Long And time
Senator:the irony is age has not mellowed that cigar out. I'm smoking that cigar, and when I finished it, I actually said, I'm done. I'm good. Like, that cigar
Gizmo:one and done?
Senator:Wow. One and done. Really? Now mind you, earlier in the day, had smoked a few cigars.
Rooster:Right. It's surcharge.
Bam Bam:That's true.
Senator:That was in the park when we had the champagne here. So I I had smoked plenty before that.
Bam Bam:That was number seven for the day.
Gizmo:One and done.
Bam Bam:Go ahead.
Senator:You know, I came
Bam Bam:seven and done.
Pagoda:Set it set it going weak. I
Senator:I came to the lounge at night to watch some football. And normally, I'd have a few cigars. And I had that one Churchill, and I was done. And all I kept saying to myself was, I can't believe that I used to smoke this pretty much daily
Bam Bam:Yeah.
Senator:With like three or four other cigars right before it. I had a break from you know, I had a few cigars in the afternoon, and had dinner, all that, and then I came back, and that one cigar was like so flavorful, packed some strength, some nicotine, even more than I would typically want in a cigar. And his just point about how, you know, years ago, like, all these cigars were just so full, like, weren't many great, like, medium bodied New World smokes is so accurate. You know? Any of the brands that we have reviewed recently that he's talked about didn't exist then, like or at least certainly were not on our radar in any way.
Senator:So I just his commentary, it really rings true. And the thing about the value proposition of, like, Habanos and and obviously the the New World cigars, obviously, there's the accessibility piece, the price point, stuff like that. For me, the only thing he didn't mention that I would just add, and this is especially true now that there are all these medium body New World cigars, the consistency is a huge problem at the price point. Like, I talk about just like this listener, you know, we all have a bunch of Cuban cigars. I'm not one of these hoard and save them.
Senator:Like, I smoke them when I see one, and I am craving that. I'm still gonna pick it up. But why I don't pick them up as often is not just the price. It's that I can grab a Fabrica five, an Aladino, any of these brands without checking the foot of the cigar, without looking at it. I can just blindly reach in the tower, grab it, put it in my case, and go, and know that it's gonna smoke and draw perfectly.
Pagoda:Mhmm.
Senator:I have never been able to grab a Cuban cigar out of my humidor without inspecting it Mhmm. Like I'm a TSA agent.
Gizmo:Yeah. And you have to say like a prayer
Senator:Yes. That it's gonna
Gizmo:smoke okay.
Senator:The consistency is horrible. Yeah. And the amount of times that you pick one of these up blindly and they don't draw, and you're sitting
Bam Bam:there
Senator:aggravated trying to enjoy a cigar. So that's another huge problem for me is like, sure, the prices climbed up. For me, if the consistency in Cuban cigars was the same as in New World cigars, I honestly would have far less of a problem with the price point. It's the fact that I can't even reliably smoke and draw a Cuban cigar at that price is what disqualifies it from being something I reach for as often anymore.
Bam Bam:Yeah. There's no predictability in it.
Rooster:Yeah. But I think right now, the point being that it's accessibility, it's the price point, and it's consistency. Although I think the consistency has improved a bit from what we have seen.
Senator:It has, but it's still not
Rooster:close normal.
Gizmo:It's not perfect. It's not in line with
Rooster:the prices. No. And definitely not like the New Worlds. Correct. I mean, you rarely ever have a plugged New World cigar.
Senator:Like, I tolerated that years ago because they were actually even cheaper than New World Honestly,
Gizmo:I think they were underpriced. You know, were priced too low.
Bam Bam:That's true.
Gizmo:It's just they've gone to such an extreme correcting that that now they've pushed it in the complete opposite direction that where before you had a tolerance for dealing with a, you know, a plugged or a Cupid cigar that wasn't smoking well. Now at that price, you can't tolerate it. It's not reasonable to tolerate inconsistency anymore in performance. Yeah.
Bam Bam:Last night I had a Rafael Gonzalez, then I followed that with a Mag 46. Both honestly smoked impeccably. No issues. They were both delicious. And then I had a Trinity Rubisto right after.
Bam Bam:You know, it's looks like you said, I couldn't have predicted that the two Cubans that I had were going to smoke as well as that New World cigar, but it did. It may not next week.
Senator:Yeah. I mean, it's criminal that you're you have to be, like, surprised when a human performs
Bam Bam:perfectly. I was actually very surprised how well they smoked last night, and they were delicious.
Gizmo:And I think the other thing I wanna touch on that we've been talking about over the last kinda couple of months is I I think the habit changes as as far as I know, Bam and I are aligned on this. I don't know about you other guys. But when I'm standing in front of my tower, I'm just not excited to reach for Cuban cigars anymore.
Senator:I don't think Bamzilai done that with you.
Bam Bam:No. I do No. He said it though.
Senator:Bamzilai smokes tons of banded Cubans, which I love. I actually feel like his philosophy is much closer to mine, where like,
Rooster:if you're
Senator:in the mood for it, grab it.
Bam Bam:I I do straddle that. So there are moments where like, I was going away for the night. Let me take a few Cubans. Let me try them out because I haven't had one in a while, and they were great. But I do have that loss of enthusiasm for the Cuban marcas because of how well our new worlds are smoking and how delicious they are.
Bam Bam:So I think we are aligned, you and I, but I do reach occasionally just to test and see where all these boxes are.
Gizmo:You know? I just think my habits have changed very significantly for all the reasons that have been discussed tonight. Everything's Yeah.
Bam Bam:Of course.
Gizmo:The cigar soldiers But when I'm standing there and I can reach for these new worlds, like you said, senator, that are at a great value, I know are gonna smoke well. Like, it's hard to reach for something that has a big question mark
Bam Bam:about it. You don't
Gizmo:want to
Bam Bam:put a cigar down ever.
Gizmo:Of course. And how often are we doing that with the new world cigars that are in our rotation? Almost never. Never. Never.
Gizmo:It's happening. No.
Senator:Yeah. I mean, to this point, like, we've been so spoiled with quality construction out of New Worlds. I lost my perfect draw years ago, and I haven't even bothered You need it.
Gizmo:I haven't even And bothered to replace
Senator:no. I mean, the sad thing is I do need it oftentimes with certain Cuban cigars.
Bam Bam:Oh, yeah.
Senator:But I am it's so frustrating when it happens. I don't wanna sit there performing surgery on a cigar. It shouldn't be that way. At that point, I'd rather just throw it down and just move on. Like
Bam Bam:Mhmm.
Senator:It's ridiculous to have to put in that work at the price point.
Gizmo:You know what my problem is is my Ziploc bag doesn't have a slot for the perfect draw. I just, you know, I don't carry
Bam Bam:it. It's because you don't have You
Senator:guys are on the same page.
Pagoda:Oh, yeah.
Bam Bam:The guy's got 20 cases. He doesn't use them. I don't understand. Plastic bags.
Gizmo:So congratulations again to our lizard of the week, Cigar Soldier. Of course, he's gonna win a 10 count box from our friends at Bon Roberts.
Bam Bam:Lucky man.
Gizmo:Lucky guy. Pagoda's gonna try to win next week.
Bam Bam:Correct.
Gizmo:So thanks again to them.
Pagoda:I'm gonna ask Chad GPT to write it. Good.
Gizmo:And, you know, it's awesome that Bon Roberts has stepped in for us, and anybody out there can win lizard of the week. All you have to do like the cigar soldier is send us a voice memo or an email or a comment somewhere, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, whatever you choose, get in touch with us, and you can win lizard of the week, a 10 count box from Bon Roberts. Alright, boys. Let's go to another email. Subject on this one, sober guy asking for nonalcoholic pairings.
Chef:Oh, this is a good
Bam Bam:one. Lustar.
Gizmo:Hey, lizards. I just finished listening to your latest episode. You didn't seem to love the Romeo y Julieta, but I I maintain that the noblis, which is the sister cigar to the Dionis, is a better vitola, he says. And I loved listening as usual. But something another listener, Johnny the Greek wrote, really resonated with me, albeit for a different reason.
Gizmo:I've been sober for over fourteen years after retiring the day after my law school graduation from a hall of fame drinking career. I've been smoking cigars for twenty three years since I was 18 years old. I used to love pairing a cigar with whiskey, rum, and even tequila, but those obviously are no longer an option for me. I know Rooster doesn't drink either, and I was wondering if we might ask him or the lizards in general either to try some nonalcoholic pairings or at least talk through what nonalcoholic options you might pair with for those of us who don't drink. Coffees always seem like an easy pairing, but I'd love to hear some cigar specific thoughts from you all so I might expand my list of options, particularly with the burgeoning market of nonalcoholic spirits.
Gizmo:Thanks as always for what what you guys do. Lizard Chris. So we have done
Rooster:a few nonalcoholic beers on the pod. The Guinness was a hit. Absolutely. Stella was not so much, but there are some you know, athletic brewing
Gizmo:is Athletic great is the goat, non alcoholic beer. Especially for cigar smokers.
Rooster:Yeah, I like Beck's quite a bit. Beck's is a very good non alcoholic beer, and it does pair well with a lot of stuff. Some of this another athletic, I think it's called the hazy IPA, which is also very good.
Gizmo:Is that the orange one?
Rooster:Yes. Delicious. That also does well.
Gizmo:But honestly, I I love a
Rooster:cup of good coffee espresso goes really well.
Chef:I'm fortunate being that, you know, in the restaurant I have quite a few vendors that come in weekly try to pitch non alcoholic offerings and I tasted this Prosecco. I can't remember the brand. It might have been St. Regis, but I'm not sure. But I was shocked at how complex it was in flavor.
Chef:A lot of these non alcoholic spirits on their own tastes like crap or nothing like what they're
Rooster:They're very, very sweet.
Chef:Yeah. They're sweet or just like they taste like mint like Sprite? No. It it there's like a minerality to it and that's about it.
Rooster:I'm off you do.
Chef:There's there's just like but there's a there's this line of Negronis. They're called phony Negronis that they're really popular now.
Gizmo:Phony Negroni.
Chef:They taste really good. They even
Pagoda:have a
Chef:mezcal Negroni option and it's delicious. So I would definitely look into those phony negronis. There's a phony negroni, there's a white negroni and there's a mezcal negroni and they're all
Senator:I actually really saw this in Whole Foods today.
Chef:Yeah, they're really, really good. Those are I think those are really good options. They're complex. They're a little bitter. You feel somewhat sophisticated drinking them because the Negroni isn't a drink for everyone.
Chef:It is somewhat of a complex drink and leans a little bitter. But I
Rooster:can try that.
Chef:I feel that if I ever were to not drink alcohol anymore, I would crave that sort of mature profile of bitterness Sounds incredible.
Rooster:There's actually a very good champagne from Champagne region, which is called Bloom. It's about $40 for a non alcoholic champagne. They make a rose and a regular, which is very good.
Gizmo:Nice. Interesting. Overly sweet. Maybe we should try that.
Bam Bam:Correct.
Gizmo:Obviously, we have a lot of listeners out there. A lot of lizards out there don't drink. So you know, we've touched on it as as Rooster has, you know, noted in the past here. We've done some nonalcoholic pairings, but I would certainly be interested in trying the phony Negroni. I'd be interested in trying that Bloom nonalcoholic champagne, you know?
Rooster:Yeah, there's some gents out there. There's gin and tonic that you can get in a can.
Chef:Gin is easier because gin really relies heavily on the floral components and that juniper berry. And so I think if if you're going to experiment with a nonalcoholic spirit, I'd go the gin route. Like, there's a lot of things that claim to be agave, and I just think they taste horrible, honestly. But
Gizmo:Senator, I remember you telling us once on the pod that there was a nonalcoholic was it a tequila
Senator:that missus Senator was Oh, yeah. I mean, it's not great, but of the options, it was the best that they have a ritual. So for her, was just mixing it into a margarita to feel this when she was pregnant, to feel like she could have a cocktail. So like that was an option. But when I pair that with a cigar, probably not.
Bam Bam:Did you try it?
Senator:Yeah. It was fine. It wasn't terrible. Without without a mix? Oh, no.
Senator:No. I wouldn't drink it without a mix. Oh, okay. Yeah.
Chef:I think that's it for me. The purest in me, I'm so used to drinking spirits neat and taking them for what they are and appreciating them and you can't really do that with the non alcoholic spirits. No.
Senator:They're not good enough. They're not close enough to what an actual spirit on its own tastes like. You would never be able to enjoy Interesting. It
Gizmo:Interesting. What about wine? I see a lot of non alcoholic wine pop
Chef:Grape very, very juice?
Senator:I that's basically what it
Rooster:I haven't found a single one that would
Chef:actually pair. Fermented grape juice.
Rooster:Yeah, pretty much.
Gizmo:So there's nothing?
Senator:No. Wine, there's a huge void.
Gizmo:So champagne in in the white grapes, they're able to do it, but the red they're not? Or is it just in champagne, the bubbly, they could pull it off, but in the non bubbly, It's they this particular champagne.
Rooster:I've I've tried some bloom.
Gizmo:Yeah. Interesting. We have
Senator:to try that sometime. Even regardless of the fact that obviously most of us are drinkers, for me just trying these things are interesting because there's many times where you just crave a drink and you're like, I shouldn't right now. You have an early start in the morning and you're like, I don't really want to drink tonight, but you're still craving the flavor. Hell, I'd love to wake up on a workday and be able to drink a non alcoholic champagne, that would be amazing, if it's good. That's why I want to try it.
Senator:If it is, that'd be great.
Bam Bam:Curious about that Negroni. That sounds compelling. It's good. I'm just curious if there's a lot of sugar in that.
Chef:There might be. I didn't look at the nutrition facts,
Bam Bam:but Mhmm.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. We are coming to the end of our evening tonight with the Yamato special edition cask strength Japanese whiskey and the Oz family cigars, Caratoba, and Robusto extra. Any final thoughts before we move into our pairing ratings tonight?
Bam Bam:Well, I will say, I slowed down my smoking in that final third. Right at the tail end of the cigar, it was actually quite enjoyable. I think for me, the heat dropped. It got cooler. It was pretty damn creamy at the end for me.
Bam Bam:Was it flavorful enough for me to be joyous about it? No. But it was fairly enjoyable compared I think the driest, most uninteresting part of this is this is that that middle part, that second third. The first third was pretty good. The last third, it started off okay, but that very tail end was pretty good.
Chef:Bam, you're spot on with that because I took note of that as well. Had that final third. Yeah. I kind of got into a point with the cigar where I was a little bored with it. Yeah.
Chef:And then that almost a nub kicked in.
Bam Bam:It was good.
Chef:And I had a heart And I was like, holy shit. Where was that?
Bam Bam:Exactly. And it wants you It kind of leaves you wanting more, and it's it's very frustrating.
Senator:Yeah. So I I just wanna say I had the exact same experience, but I I do not think it's a factor of like, this cigar just suddenly got like much better toward the nub. Mm-mm. I think I
Rooster:think it slowed down.
Senator:Well, I think slowed down, but I also think like at this ring gauge, when you're getting to the middle of the cigar and you're smoking this down, like, it's heating up faster. Right? There's less tobacco Sure. That all that air is going through. So I think we were drawing at the same pace early on, but once you've lost half the cigar, it's getting hotter.
Senator:Yeah. And we weren't slowing down. And I think once we did, I mean, I literally just put it down for a while, relit it, and exactly like Bam's saying.
Gizmo:Yeah.
Senator:First, the almond kind of nuttiness came right back.
Bam Bam:I agree with walnut.
Senator:It was not too dry. And then what Ben mentioned, there was a creaminess. Oddly, there was.
Bam Bam:Very strange.
Senator:I mean, I'm still getting it. So I I do think with a cigar at this size, it's just instructive generally. You can't actually smoke at the same pace all the way through. Mhmm. You do need to mentally make a note, like, once you get to that halfway point, the cigar is gonna heat up faster, so you actually do need to smoke a little slower.
Chef:That's true. Yeah. And I I agree with you, senator. I'd I'd but I was smoking pretty fast, I guess, because I'm I'm done with I've been done for a minute. But even with the speed of my smoke, I still got that improved flavor on the end.
Chef:So I just think there was something with the blend there or, you know, I don't know if it was intentional that it still came through for me even though I I don't think I ever slowed down, and I'm not smoking now because I didn't.
Gizmo:So I didn't stop smoking mine. And, you know, we'll talk about, you know, the performance and the rating. But as I got down, I just found it to get drier. You know, I didn't experience that cream thing, you know. So we'll see we'll see how the ratings end up, boys.
Gizmo:Yeah. But first, let's go to the formal liquor rating tonight on the Yamato special edition cask strength Japanese whiskey. Bam bam, you're up.
Bam Bam:I'm at an eight with this. I don't know if I'll ever have this again. It drank very nicely. There was a great hint of honey for me and honeysuckle, like on a finish.
Senator:Oh, great. It's a four for Gizmo.
Bam Bam:Yeah. A little butterscotch even. And it wasn't fruity enough for me to say it was really fruity, but I did get hints of that. But it's actually quite nice to drink. So I'm at a solid eight.
Gizmo:All right, chef.
Bam Bam:There it is. Perfect.
Gizmo:I'm going to clip that.
Chef:I could say this on my second pour, the 43% alcohol feels like it's catching up to me a little bit. It was an enjoyable whiskey. I think an eight is a great score for it. I'm in locks up with you, Ben. I think for this cigar, and it's not it's it has nothing to do really with the spirit, for the pairing rather, I probably would have wanted something a little sweeter, a little bit rounder just because the cigar, the dryness of the cigar dominated throughout.
Chef:But I think the whiskey was I really enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. I liked the strength. I liked the slight sweetness that was coming through. Senator nailed it earlier with the apple.
Chef:That was about all I was getting on the fruit note. Some honeysuckle, some honey there. Those were great notes, too. It's a beautiful bottle. It's a little pricey.
Chef:Yeah. Little pricey. But there's some, you know, there's some value in keeping this bottle afterwards.
Bam Bam:Oh, yeah.
Chef:So I'm at an eight.
Gizmo:Alright. Pagoda.
Pagoda:I do like the bottle, actually. I was thinking about the bottle, you know, nice to have it on your liquor shelf. I'm at an eight as well. I kind of enjoyed, I guess, the Japanese whiskey. And, you know, for me, the way I look at it is if I were to go and spend about $100, I would rather just go and pick up a hibiki, which I know I really enjoy.
Gizmo:How much is hibiki now? Is it about 100?
Pagoda:It's about 100 plus
Bam Bam:or 1 and 10, I think.
Pagoda:Wow. It's pricey now. So for a similar price range, I think, you know, it's like tried and tested, and I enjoy it. I would rather pick that up as a bottle. And yeah, just overall, think nothing very significant from a perspective that, hey, oh, this is fantastic.
Pagoda:Maybe, you know, it's kind of the food I've been eating, but I think a bit of the heat was just putting a little bit of some kind of pressure on my chest as well. Like, I don't know. I didn't really
Senator:You think you need some alka seltzer, right? I really do, I really do. I think it's the whiskey.
Pagoda:I think we should've got some What mice did you
Chef:eat today, Pagoda? Curious.
Pagoda:No. I ate some Indian food, some heavy Indian food earlier.
Gizmo:Oh, Oh, That'll do it.
Pagoda:Yeah. All delicious. Yeah. No. So it's an eight.
Pagoda:Yeah.
Gizmo:So I'm also at an eight. You know? I I think at at the end of the day, the the statement that I would make about this is it's just not a stand up. Mhmm. You know?
Gizmo:I I think an eight is a fair score. I think it it represents factoring in the price. It represents factoring in the flavor. I was impressed with the finish on it. I thought it was a a pretty long finish for the spirit at 43%.
Gizmo:It did not feel hot to me. You know, I know you're, you know, commenting on some other factors that might make you feel the way you did, but it wasn't hot for me at at 43%. I thought it was very good, but not great. It just was not a standout whiskey. Like you said, Bam, I don't know if I'll ever have this again, but I wouldn't tell a listener not to buy it.
Chef:Exactly.
Gizmo:But I don't know if I'm gonna run out and and make sure that this is on my shelf.
Bam Bam:I'm kinda rethinking what I said. With the conversation about Hibiki, I would actually put this ahead of that just slightly. Really? I like hibiki.
Pagoda:Wow.
Bam Bam:But there's nothing I gotta formulate my thought here because it's a it's a very standard straightforward whiskey. This does have some interesting nuances, and as I continue to drink it, I'm on my second glass, dude, it gets better.
Senator:I agree.
Bam Bam:I I I would I would probably go out and buy this because it's it's a little unique, and I used to love the hibiki when we had it with the the Habitat Millennium Pyramid long ago.
Gizmo:Yeah. It's a long
Bam Bam:time a bunch of bottles after, and then it kinda fell off. But this this this is more interesting. I think it's tastier. There's a there's a bit more sweetness to this, and it's more complex.
Chef:Alright. Senator for the six.
Bam Bam:Just a touch.
Gizmo:So I will agree, though. The second pour did enhance it for me. Think It's really Had I not had the second pour, I might have been at a seven. Yeah. But I think the second pour really reaffirmed to me how great the spirit is.
Gizmo:And I think that the cigar may have been tainting that. But I will say, out of the two, I do think through you know, the whole way through, I do think that the pairing, the whiskey tonight elevated. I think that was a bit more of the standout for me. But with all that being said, considering the price, everything else, it's an eight for me. Senator.
Senator:So I'm at an eight. I'm at the same rating as everyone. You know, this is a classic case of where, you know, for what reasons are we at this eight? Mhmm. I do think this is great, so I don't agree with Gizmo's reasoning behind the eight.
Senator:To me, this does stand out. To me, it is really Agreed. The thing I give them credit, the flavor profile of this, just the notes are lighter notes, yet it's like got body, and it's still substantial. But here's the thing. And I can't think of many whiskeys that are like that.
Senator:You know, a lot of Japanese whiskeys like Suntory, some of the they're they're lighter.
Pagoda:Yeah. They're summery.
Senator:And you'd think you'd only drink them in summer, just like Pagoda said. Yep. This is one where we're in the fall, and this is satisfying. Oh, In the summer, this would be satisfying.
Bam Bam:Very versatile.
Gizmo:That is a fair comment. That's a fair comment.
Senator:It the notes that you would associate with warmer weather, but it has the body of also colder weather. And for me, this is something I could drink year round. Totally. I think for being above 40%, it is very smooth. I mean, most whiskeys, I think obviously, Chef is the exception.
Senator:I think most in this group drink whiskeys with, like, a chip of ice or a little bit of water. Mhmm. Usually, because there's some heat, we're just trying to dial back a little bit. This doesn't need it at all. Like, it is a refined spirit.
Senator:You know, the price point, I think a lot of these Japanese Japanese whiskeys tend to be higher. Like, we're talking about Hibiki. It's the same price point. This retails at 115. I mean, Hibiki can be a 110, same same price.
Bam Bam:Tariff.
Pagoda:I'm not
Senator:that too. I mean, seriously.
Gizmo:It's a 150 now. Correct. So
Senator:I think it's in line with, you know, kinda where the category is. I'm impressed. I I really I was pretty much out on Japanese whiskey after the last, you know, one or two that we did, and this has actually drawn me back in to wanna try more.
Bam Bam:Mhmm.
Senator:I would happily drink this again. If I was at someone's house and they had this, I'd actually be excited to try it again. You know, the price point is the only reason. I'd say the same about habiki. I have a bottle of habiki at home.
Senator:I have one. Like, it's not something I'm gonna pull out every single day, a 100 and something dollars spirit.
Gizmo:Do you just have that for the variety when someone comes over and they want habiki?
Senator:And myself, just when I want variety. Yeah. I mean, I buy based on what I like, and I hope that others will.
Bam Bam:I would ask you to do a taste test at home. Take that bottle home. I would love to hear because I know what I've I have I know habiki very well. I would love to try that together in one sit. Be interesting to hear what you think.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Because I I I think this is outclasses habiki, honestly.
Senator:It's tough. I haven't had habiki in so long, I can't say. But I do know that I like this enough that I I very much believe, like, the two are probably very close.
Bam Bam:They're close. They're close. Yeah.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. The formal liquor rating tonight on the Yamato special edition cask strength Japanese whiskey is an even eight point zero. Nice. I think that's a fair rating for the spirit. Agree.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Factoring in price, yes.
Gizmo:So, Gus, just curious. What was Hibiki's rating? So on episode 33, Bam mentioned this, the Davodoff Millennium Pyramidis episode, Hibiki scored a 9.2. Yeah. Yeah.
Gizmo:12 points higher than this.
Bam Bam:Honest I mean, I am I'm surprised.
Gizmo:Now what I wanna I know
Senator:also think that that was priced lower back then.
Gizmo:That's what I was gonna say. $90. Episode 33. I think
Senator:it went up big time.
Gizmo:Yeah. That's three three and a half years ago, probably.
Bam Bam:It was at $90 at that time, maybe. Think even in the eighties. Maybe less.
Gizmo:Probably less.
Bam Bam:Could be.
Gizmo:I bet if we listen to that episode, I bet we called it out in the eighties.
Bam Bam:You know, the good thing about the Habiki, it is there's a dry it's drier. There's a diff it's it's it's also sophisticated, but it's a it's a departure from this. It's I think it's two different experiences depending on what you're going for.
Senator:I do think Bam's point, what I do remember ofhibiki, like, this is more distinct Yes. In that it's, like, more different in a departure from, like, the kinda traditional whiskey that you might pursue.
Gizmo:But this
Senator:Where like kabiki no. I'm saying this is more of
Bam Bam:a departure.
Senator:Like, it stands out more.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Yeah.
Senator:Yeah. I think kabiki is more like run of the mill kinda what we're familiar with. So like, we like it because of that, but it's not particularly, like, distinct. It's easy to forget.
Bam Bam:And this, you can drink. I mean, I want another glass of this tonight for sure.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. It's time now to move into the formal lizard rating tonight on the Oz Family Cigars Caratoba and Robusto Extra. Rooster, you're up.
Rooster:So I think the cigar is really well constructed overall. It's medium bodied but has a lot of flavor. And I think for $12 for this cigar, I think it's a good cigar for anybody to try. The initial on the light, it had a little bit of spice. It had a little creaminess.
Rooster:It was nutty. It had a lot of almond notes. The only point of the cigar that I didn't like was after the halfway point, like around the two third.
Bam Bam:Right into second third.
Rooster:Second third, I mean, got a little bit drier. Maybe it was just the way we were smoking too fast. But towards the end of the cigar, I mean I smoked it down to the nub and it actually did get, like somebody mentioned, got very creamy. I think that was like the best part of the cigar.
Senator:Was better
Rooster:than the beginning, better than the half point, it was super delicious at the end. I was kind of at a seven at the second, third, but it kind of rounded up to an eight. Wow. The construction was flawless. Mean, think the Sumatran wrapper really does work with this cigar.
Rooster:It's a good blend. It's another good medium bodied New World cigar. So I'm at an eight. All right, senator.
Senator:So my experience is very, very similar to roosters. I am rounding down to a seven though.
Bam Bam:This is gonna be a tough one to rate, I think, in the room.
Senator:It is, because for me, if the second third were like the first third and the last third, I would have been a firm eight. Maybe a nine. And I not a nine. And I'll I'll explain why.
Gizmo:Okay.
Senator:But I I would have been at a firm eight and that I definitely would have smoked this again. I actually thought it was like distinct, not over not particularly complex, but like notes that were interesting grabbed you, as Rooster said, the construction, a plus. That second third got so dry. I not only lost interest, like I actively disliked the experience I was having. So that's why, like, I I have to round down.
Senator:Like, for there to be a point that I'm sitting there saying like, this is just not what I'm looking for at all. That's that was the problem, you know, piece for me. And the other thing is, you know, I'm I'm always a big fan of a cigar if the flavor profile is really something I enjoy. I don't want it to doesn't need to change and transition a bunch. I'm fine with it being consistent like an ex Louis Vu all the way through.
Senator:But this cigar, because of how dry it was, like, I think everyone even in the first third was saying, like, I wonder if it's gonna change, hoping for some cocoa or hoping for something a little sweeter.
Gizmo:Some Bolognese. I was hoping for that.
Senator:Or some Bolognese. And the fact that Really? The fact that we were all saying that at some point during the cigar, you know, tells me that the blend was not fully complete. Like, could have been a bit better if they would have introduced some sweeter notes, some more sweetness at some point or all the way through the cigar. So for those reasons, I'm at a seven.
Senator:I think it's worth trying. It's not something I think that's worth buying a box of, or I can't see where I would slot this regularly. And I also say that because the other Osgooder cigar I've tried, like, I I can see a time and place for that. Like, that cigar scores higher than a seven for me. So for those reasons, I'm I'm at a seven, a soft recommend.
Gizmo:So I'm also at a seven. I'm actually I thought I might have been the only seven in the room, but
Bam Bam:Oh, I don't think so.
Gizmo:Maybe The only reason is no. The only reason is because I didn't have that experience in the last third, that creaminess. I Mhmm. That didn't come for me. That that wasn't
Bam Bam:I'm gonna say this in my reading, and I'll say it again. The problem with that that experience, it wasn't the final third.
Chef:Exactly.
Bam Bam:It was the tail end of
Senator:It's the like too little too late.
Bam Bam:Exactly. And it left you wanting more, and I said it earlier, it's frustrating. Because if that could've been pulled up into that second third, this would've been a great cigar.
Gizmo:There was a moment in the first third that I thought maybe this cigar was gonna get to a nine. It was almost like It was great. What Senator just said. Like, we were kind of anticipating what it could develop into, what it could be. And unfortunately, it didn't get there.
Gizmo:So I was at an eight thinking it might get to a nine. Unfortunately, it fell off a little bit. And for me, it was a seven. I didn't get to those moments you did like, you know, with that creaminess or whatever. Too late, you know, too little, too late, whatever it may be.
Gizmo:I didn't get there and I took it down pretty far. But, you know, I I thought the best thing about the cigar was the construction and the smoke output.
Pagoda:Excellent, yeah.
Gizmo:Excellent. And the opening flavor was really interesting. It was different. We were, you know, trying to find that sweetness and define that. I think there was some really beautiful smooth smoke in this cigar.
Gizmo:For how much flavor was here, it was delivered so smooth.
Bam Bam:That's true.
Gizmo:Yeah. That that lack of edge in the first third or the first half
Bam Bam:And that carried through all the way.
Gizmo:It did. That was But I I did get that dryness and it was it was getting a little bitey in the last third. You know, the dryness certainly came in in the second third. So for me, second half of the cigar Yeah.
Bam Bam:Pace of smoke will affect that.
Gizmo:It did. But I I feel like we got a lot out of it, Bam. I mean, we're almost, you know, we're we're like two hours
Bam Bam:into That's also true.
Gizmo:We were smoking this cigar for quite some time. Also true. You know? So, you know, for what it for what it is, I think it's at a great price. Mhmm.
Gizmo:I think it's constructed really well. I think there's you know, I'm I'm interested to try the other Osgooder cigar Me too. That Senator smoked, but tonight, this one was a seven for me. Pagoda. Yeah.
Gizmo:So would this qualify the robusto. Right? Robusto extra.
Pagoda:Yeah. So it's really interesting because in Not a double toro. Not a double toro. But yeah. So recently, I've been smoking, and I've smoked a few toros as well.
Pagoda:And what I found, even in a lot of the Toros I've been trying, some of them have been excellent in terms of the first third, even the first half. And then what I find is in the second half, they tend to diminish in a certain way, whether it's to monotone a flavor profile or you you're left wanting something more or they're just not smoking the same way. And I was thinking for this robusta, which was 54 vial, 54 ring gauge, it was slightly on the longer side of the robusta, I would think. I don't know whether that's what's contributing it because we've had plenty of rubistas which can smoke well throughout the length of the cigar. And in this case, it really dropped off very significantly.
Pagoda:The other thing is the dryness. It was extremely dry. And I think, you know, this you know, the pairing really did help substantially. Like, it did make quite a bit of significant difference, at least to me. Because without the pairing, I think I'd be really seeking out either water or something.
Pagoda:You know, because we can have cigars without having, you know, liquor often. And so, you know, considering all that, you know, on the good side, on the positive side, the construction was really, really good. The smoke up, it was fantastic. It is something I really enjoy. The other thing is a very good open draw, which I like.
Pagoda:The lighter, very easy to smoke.
Gizmo:Hey, just kiss it.
Pagoda:Yeah, it's like, it's, you know, and those things really matter to me. I just wish maybe a little bit of more of the Nicaraguan tobacco, which would bring a little bit of the sweetness, the maduros, you know. I don't know what the solution is, but I was definitely left seeking, like like, wanting something more, and it's a seven for me. Yeah.
Gizmo:So have a question for you.
Pagoda:So
Gizmo:this Vitola, the Robusto Extra is effectively the second out of four in size. The smallest out of the four is a 52 by five Robusto. This one that we smoked tonight is 55 by five and a half. Do you think that that, you know, the reduction in ring gauge by three factors to a 52 by five, do you think it would've made any difference? I don't know.
Gizmo:You know, with your commentary on what you're thinking about Toro?
Pagoda:I think it's definitely worth a try. I think it's probably now I think it'll at least answer some of the questions. So I'm definitely gonna try to see whether it does make a difference because, you know, then it really will give me a good understanding of what's happening with the cigar.
Gizmo:I'll I'll I'll say too, based on your commentary, I do wish there was a smaller Vitola. Yeah. I wish there was something in the forties that, you know, to your point, maybe this blend would work better in a
Rooster:smaller The one
Senator:below that is smaller. Right? Yeah. 55, that's 52.
Gizmo:52, not that much smaller.
Senator:That feels a lot different. It does. I say that because I think in the whatever the one's called that I said I smoke, that I it's the smallest Vitola that I've had, a 52, and it honestly looks and feels way smaller than this cigar.
Gizmo:Really? The one you smoke, senator, is the Frisat?
Senator:Yeah. Got it.
Gizmo:Alright. Chef.
Chef:So lots of digest there, but I think all of you guys make all the great points. You know, this cigar, when I first smelled the wrapper, it was delicious. The initial smoke was complex. It was spicy. I was getting a ton of flavor.
Chef:I think we all were minus spam. First, third kind of maintain that second, third. Started to kind of all just become muted. I lost interest in the cigar until that final quarter or nub, if you will, where things started to pick up again and I started to get some more of the complexity that the cigar offered initially. And yeah, I think it was you guys that said in the beginning you started at an eight or nine or an eight.
Chef:I was at a nine in the beginning. I was so excited for the cigar and what I thought it was going to bring and what it was offering. And then it just fell off of a cliff and then it brought me back. And what kept me interested was the construction. The smoke output, the way it felt in the hand, the ash build, everything about it was beautiful.
Chef:But the flavor wasn't delivering what I got initially and what I thought it was going to continue to deliver. So for that, I'm going give it a seven. A part of me wonders would the cigar rate higher if we had a slightly sweeter spirit?
Gizmo:I don't think so, man.
Senator:But that shouldn't matter.
Gizmo:It doesn't matter.
Chef:Shouldn't. It shouldn't, but
Gizmo:By the way, that's what those listeners were asking
Senator:you. Yeah,
Gizmo:but it doesn't though. It doesn't affect it. It
Bam Bam:really doesn't. And honestly, there's just enough sweetness in what we're drinking tonight, and we've talked about it and we've raved about it. I don't know. I think this gives you just enough of what you want in a spirit.
Chef:No, the
Bam Bam:spirit In was general.
Chef:Sure, the spirit was phenomenal. I think the spirit did great, but yeah, I think if anything, the spirit highlighted some of the cigars flaws. That's probably what it is.
Bam Bam:But don't forget, they weren't intending to make a cigar that had any notes in that range of sweetness. That wasn't their intention.
Chef:Sure. And they did it. But the cold draw was sweet. We were getting berry notes
Gizmo:on that
Chef:cold draw. The wrapper was chalked, chalky.
Bam Bam:But that's also common on many other cigars. Sure. Right. But you don't get in it, you know, smoke.
Chef:Even before coming here, I had the the aging room concerto and that was very, very forward under cold draw. But then as was smoking it was cocoa and it was it was it continued to deliver some of those notes in a more complex and mature manner.
Rooster:I think that's our palate like we kind of create a 100%.
Pagoda:Yeah. Yeah.
Chef:And yeah, we want our palate to be triggered on all levels. And I think this cigar failed to do that. And that's why it's getting a seven for the most part across the room.
Bam Bam:All right, Pam. Yeah, think a seven is a fair score for this cigar. At the end of the day, all my commentary continues through, it leaves you wanting more. Like I said, if you get that half inch experience in the majority of the cigar, it would
Gizmo:be a much higher rated stick. Seven. Alright, boys. The formal listen rating tonight on the Oz Family cigars, Caratoba Robusto Extra is a 7.2.
Bam Bam:K.
Gizmo:Not a great not a great rating for the Keratoba tonight. And I'll be honest, I That's was fair.
Bam Bam:It's fair though.
Gizmo:I think it's a perfect score for it, but based on the I got several listener emails about this. I've had some retailers talk about it. I'm surprised how this performed tonight, and I think I wanna share again. We said this a few weeks ago. This is why we smoke the entire cigar.
Gizmo:This is why we smoke the entire thing all the way down to the nub where there was this moment of light that you said, bam, was too little too late for you guys. Correct. So that is the merit in what we do here. That's why we do this to give you the entire experience. And I'm so glad we did because it represents the you know, what we experienced in the room today.
Rooster:Is this the size that was recommended
Chef:as well?
Gizmo:Rubusto Extra.
Bam Bam:Yeah. How long did you have these in your tower?
Gizmo:Six weeks? That's a long time.
Bam Bam:They're fully accurate. Five or
Gizmo:six weeks?
Bam Bam:They did feel great.
Gizmo:Yeah. They were definitely fully accurate. There's no
Bam Bam:doubt about that.
Senator:I do think though, to Pagoda's point, because we all found things we liked about this cigar at a number of points, even most points in this cigar. It's worth trying in other Vitolas.
Gizmo:Yeah. I think I'd like to try the the I want
Bam Bam:to have the one you had. Definitely wanna try that.
Senator:The regular Robusto. Again, not this cigar, a different cigar, but same brand.
Rooster:Yes. But even in this cigar, maybe the Robusto size.
Bam Bam:Oh, right. Right. Right. That's a good point. Right.
Gizmo:Yeah. Alright, boys. A great night tonight. Let's go through our ratings one more time. The Yamato special edition cask strength Japanese whiskey scored an eight point zero, and the Oz family cigars, Caratoba Robusto extra scored a 7.2.
Gizmo:Both of those were debuts tonight on the pod. And, boys, we have to congratulate again our lizard of the week presented by Bon Roberts, the cigar soldier with that awesome voice memo. Remember, anybody out there can win, and now you're gonna win 10 cigars from Bon Roberts. All you have to do is send us a voice memo, an email, a comment somewhere, whatever you choose, and you can win. We, of course, have to thank Small Batch Cigar, our new sponsor, our favorite retailer out there.
Gizmo:Try them out. Give them give them your business. Use our code lizard 15 for 15% off your entire order. Every order is free shipping. Every order earns points that you can redeem later on future orders for, you know, a discount off your order.
Gizmo:Of course, there's some restrictions that do apply, so check that out as well. And, we have to thank Fabrica Five. Great partner. Always. Great cigars
Bam Bam:Love you, Rob.
Gizmo:Out of Honduras. And, you know, we talk about Cuban cigars. We talked about that with some emails tonight and, of course, cigar soldiers voice memo. You know, if you like if you love Cuban cigars, try out Fabrica five and use our code lizard pod, of course, to get 10% off your entire order. And, boys, we'll see everybody next week.
Gizmo:Hope you enjoyed this episode. Thanks for joining us. You could find our merch store and ratings archive at our brand new website, loungelizardspod.com. That's loungelizardsp0d.com. Don't forget to leave us a rating and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform.
Gizmo:If you have any comments, questions, if you wanna reach out, say hello, tell us what you're smoking, email us. Hello at loungelizardspod.com. You can also find us on Instagram at Lounge Lizards Pod. We really appreciate your time, and we'll, we'll see you next week.