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Join Wendy Coulter, president of Hummingbird Creative Group, Hanna Jernigan, and special guest Dr. Kristen Wynns from Wynns Family Psychology as they delve into the concept of the Hummingbird Effect. Discover how small innovations in branding, marketing, and mental health can lead to significant impacts across various aspects of business and personal life. The discussion covers topics such as the importance of humor in therapy, the benefits of multiple revenue streams, and the power of authentic leadership. Highlights include Dr. Wynns' unique approach to therapy with children, her journey into comedy, and the value of taking the high road in business. Learn how embracing creativity, fun, and authenticity can revolutionize your approach to branding and business growth.
00:00 Introduction to Hummingbird Creative Group
00:43 The Hummingbird Effect Explained
01:17 Meet the Team: Hannah Jernigan
02:41 Special Guest: Dr. Kristen Wynns
03:58 Kristen's Fun Facts and Stand-Up Comedy
07:00 Wynns Family Psychology: Growth and Achievements
13:01 The Power of Humor in Healing
18:05 Building a Strong Team and Culture
21:12 Navigating Business Challenges and Successes
24:11 Navigating Business Expansion and Challenges
25:33 Diversifying Income Streams
25:59 The Healing Power of Humor
28:07 Empowering Women in Comedy and Business
29:53 Humor in Child Psychology
34:13 Advice for Entrepreneurs
37:43 Innovative Therapy Techniques
47:02 The Importance of Authenticity
48:33 Conclusion and Contact Information
Creators and Guests
Host
What is The Hummingbird Effect with Wendy Coulter?
Welcome to "The Hummingbird Effect," a podcast dedicated to uncovering the subtle yet powerful ways that small innovations can transform your business. Hosted by Wendy Coulter, CEO of Hummingbird Creative Group, this show delves into the stories and strategies behind successful brand building.
For over 25 years, Wendy has helped CEOs and business leaders redefine their brands through innovation and compelling narratives. In this podcast, she shares the insights and lessons learned from her extensive experience, exploring how a strong brand orientation can significantly increase the value of your business.
Each episode features engaging conversations with industry leaders, business advisors, and innovators who have harnessed the power of branding to make a substantial impact. Discover how focusing on core values, mission, and vision can drive your brand beyond mere marketing tactics, fostering a culture that resonates with your audience and enhances your business's reputation.
Inspired by the concept of the Hummingbird Effect—where small, adaptive changes lead to remarkable outcomes—this podcast aims to help you understand and implement the incremental innovations that can elevate your brand and business.
Join Wendy Coulter on "The Hummingbird Effect" and learn how to evolve your brand, attract more customers, and ultimately enhance the value of your business through strategic branding.
37 Hummingbird - Dr. Kristen Wynns
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[00:00:00]
Wendy: Hi. I am Wendy Coulter, president of Hummingbird Creative Group, and we help CEOs and marketing leaders unlock the power of their brands. For years, business leaders have focused on marketing tactics, but what we believe is really important is building a strong, effective brand. Have you ever experienced a hummingbird effect?
It's like the co-evolution of the flower and the hummingbird. It's when small things happen in your business and it leads to something unexpected and big in a different area. So you might have a marketing initiative that you [00:01:00] try and then that leads to, um, increase in sales. Of course, that's what we're all looking for.
But it might also lead into a culture change, or it might lead into a new sales initiative of a new product or a new service. Um, and so the Hummingbird Effect is what it's all about here. And I have hummingbird's marketing strategist with me, Hannah Jernigan. Hey Hannah.
Hanna: Hello.
Wendy: Hey, it's been a busy morning for us.
It has. We've been out of the, well, we've been in the office and outta the office a lot today. Mm-hmm.
Hanna: Um, and it's a busy week, month. Yeah. We really kicked off 2026. Running. Yeah. And I don't see the stop yet.
Wendy: Well, and today's been like a lot of, um, creativity. Mm-hmm. Going on in the office. We're working on the mascot for the world University games 2029.
Hanna: Yeah.
Wendy: And so the whole creative team has been busy. Busy, yeah. Over the last few days, getting ready for our brainstorming meeting today. So that was a lot of fun. It was
Hanna: exciting. It was fun. It was, different [00:02:00] project that we haven't really got to do before.
Wendy: Yeah, we're getting to new, like brand new things for WG University games.
It's a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun. Um, so what fun fact do you have to share today?
Hanna: Well, first I guess about me. I,
Wendy: whatever.
Hanna: Oh,
Wendy: you wanna talk about Kristen? You wanna talk about our guest? Like really? I guess we could that Hey guys. Hi.
Hanna: I guess
Wendy: there, she's, there's someone else here with us today. Her name is Kristen.
Good, because
Hanna: I don't think I had fun fact for me.
Wendy: Nothing for you today.
Hanna: No, I don't, I don't, I'm not very good at mascot stories. Mascot
Wendy: stories.
Hanna: Um, but yes. So we are welcoming Dr. Kristen Wind. She's the owner and president at Winds Family Psychology to the show. Today we're gonna dive deeper into the world of brand building and how seemingly small innovations in branding, marketing and sales can lead to big wins in other areas.
So welcome. I do have some fun [00:03:00] facts for you. You might have. More fun facts to share. Okay. But just some things that I've found. So you're the author of No Wimpy Wimpy Parenting Handbook.
Kristen Wynns: Yes.
Hanna: I guess I should say. Okay. You're the author of the No Wimpy Parenting Handbook. Yes.
Kristen Wynns: Nailed it.
Hanna: Wonderful. You're a custody and forensic expert witness in court.
Kristen Wynns: Mm-hmm.
Hanna: You, um, do humor coaching.
Kristen Wynns: Yes.
Hanna: Which. You were known as Kiki?
Kristen Wynns: Yes.
Hanna: Oh, ooh.
Kristen Wynns: Excited you, you're already bringing out my alter ego. We're gonna learn very early in the interview to bring, to mention Kiki, but yeah,
Hanna: we just start off with it.
Kristen Wynns: Okay? Yes.
Hanna: And then I do wanna know about buying Wethers originals by the bag full in regards to your husband.
Kristen Wynns: Oh my gosh. This is the most impressive homework anyone has done for me. I've done. Dozens, dozens, maybe up to hundreds of podcast interviews. No one has ever done such thorough research. Yeah. Where shall we start? Where shall we start?
Wendy: So what's your favorite fun [00:04:00] fact?
Kristen Wynns: Is it any of those, those, yeah. Well, the worths is hilarious.
I don't know how you found that, but I, I drifted into standup comedy three and a half years ago. And that is one of my most beloved bits that resonates with the crowd every single time. They love it. It's a whole joke about my deep fears because as a psychologist, I'm supposed to be great at talking about my feelings, right?
But the whole punchline is I'm great at talking about your feelings. Mine, I like to bury deep. Get outta a good bottle of bourbon. It's not healthy. So then I go into deep irrational fears, one of which is I'm afraid my husband is gonna start to smell old before me. And then I do a whole thing like, y'all know what I'm talking about.
Everybody knows. And then I'm talking about how. I think he's aging more quickly because he's been buying Wethers originals regularly by the bag full. And every time people [00:05:00] get it, like that's an old, old man thing, to have his like bag out and, and at night when we're cuddling, watching tv, he'll say, can you bring over the bag of weers?
And I'm like, oh. And then, oh, the butterscotch smell is all around. So, good job on your research. Well, thank you. Yeah, I, that one is true. Most, most of mine. Um, jokes like most comedians does absolutely come from real life. And then I just take it and run with it.
Hanna: Awesome. I'm so excited to learn more and I'm very excited.
I, we already kind of joked about it, but to learn more about Kiki and Yes. How she's played into everything. Um, so if you're ready, do, is there any other fun facts you want to share?
Kristen Wynns: I'm one of those people that I could tell you 50 fun facts right now. I mean, so many
Hanna: blow us
Wendy: away. Yeah. One today. What is it today?
Kristen Wynns: Okay. One, I have an identical twin sister. And we didn't confirm we were identical until we were 40 with the DNA test. [00:06:00] 'cause way back in 1975, it was like very, I guess like. Primitive or how they would determine when twins were born. Mm-hmm. If we were identical or fraternal. So the room, and back then it was a big deal too, where apparently there were five or six doctors in the room when we were born, and half of them said, oh, they're definitely identical.
Half said fraternal. So for 40 years we didn't know. And my parents were divided. One said, y'all are absolutely identical. The other one said, no way fraternal. And then we just waited and waited. And then when we found out at age 40, we were ecstatic. We were like jumping up and down and clapping our hands and so excited.
'cause we really wanted to be identical.
Wendy: Oh,
Kristen Wynns: that's a fun fact. That's
Hanna: awesome.
Kristen Wynns: That's a fun
Hanna: fact. That is very fun. Well, I think we're ready to shift into the Hummingbird effect.
Kristen Wynns: Okay.
Wendy: Well you, no, let's hear a little bit more about Kristen and the practice and Kiki, maybe a little more about Kiki before we jump in.[00:07:00]
Kristen Wynns: Sure. So shockingly, my practice wins family psychology, which by the way, you crushed pronouncing it since people leave off the S with winds or, or butcher. But great job. So winds family psychology. We just turned 18 in August. Crazy. Um, right now we have four locations. So I started off with a little part-time office in Durham where it was shared furniture with someone else, and then I outgrew that and moved to Cary.
Um, very close to where we are right now. Um, and Cary. And then through the 18 years I've been really fortunate. To build up my team of attracting other people who are drawn to our mission. So my passion has always been young people. So we've always specialized in kids and teens, young adults, and parents and families.
So. Through the years now, I've brought other people on with other therapists and psychologists who have the same passion. And we have the four locations across North Carolina. Great job. [00:08:00] Carrie Raleigh, Greensboro. And then our newest baby Fuquay is about to turn one. So that was very exciting last year to open up in Fuqua and we're just so, um, proud to be a part of this community.
And we just won for the, we just got to announce finally. That we won the, um, local magazine Diamond Award for best mental health practice four years in a row. We've, um, placed or crushed that category. So that just feels super special that all these people that vote on best mental health practice continue to think about us.
It's just super special and we love this community. We love to be a part of it. We love to give back, but just having. The honor of being recognized at this point for doing great work is super special too.
Wendy: Congratulations. Thank you. That is great. That is great. I just got an invite to the Diamond Award, so I did too.
We may have,
Kristen Wynns: are going Thursday night.
Wendy: Um, well I just got the invite. Oh.
Kristen Wynns: I'll be there.
Wendy: Dressed up the [00:09:00] original invite.
Kristen Wynns: Oh, it's so fun. Yeah, we, the gala is Thursday night, so, um, my chief clinical officer. Dr. Salter, who helps me run the practice, she and I get all dressed up and you go and it's super fancy with the champagne and everyth everything.
You was there last
Wendy: year? Last year. Hannah was there last year. Look
Kristen Wynns: at, okay. Yeah. Yeah. It's very exciting.
Wendy: Well, congratulations on that. That is great. Thank
Kristen Wynns: you. That
Wendy: is great. And tell us a little bit about the other things that you have going on in the world, other than the practice.
Kristen Wynns: Yes. Well, so you mentioned the book.
Mm-hmm. It is kind. Mm-hmm. Interesting how whatever season of life I'm in is also reflected with my side hustles. 'cause I'm one of those people that I do feel blessed. I have extremely high energy and way too many dreams for one lifetime. So I'm just seeing how much I can pack into this life lifetime. So.
I wrote the No Empty Parenting Handbook in 2017 when I was in the throes of parenting young kids myself. Now they're out of the [00:10:00] house, empty nester life, Uhhuh, they're 22 and 20. But back then it was the throes of just being out in dance class or soccer practice and seeing parents given the. Empty threats.
Do you wanna leave? Okay, we'll leave. Do you wanna leave? And then they're still sitting there an hour later. So, um, I had that just as a mom and then seeing parents come into my office super frustrated, upset, why can't the kids listen? Listen. They don't even like their kids. They would admit, you know, in tears sometimes, like, why is this so hard?
So I wrote the book and that's been a really cool way to get outside of the walls of my office or even my practice. I love having a resource that can be a quick, easy read, give parents tips to feel more empowered and confident, and again, help. You know, thousands of people versus just our clients. So that's been a great resource to have for our clients to go along parenting [00:11:00] coaching or just to find anywhere.
And then, um, you referenced Dear Kiki, so post COD in 2021, I was a little bit stressed out and anxious like the rest of the world. We were all just. A little rattled from the pandemic. So I took my own advice. I do a lot of webinars and presentations and interviews like this, and I had been given the advice during COVID times.
You need self-care. Do something creative. Get outside of your, you know, typical day-to-day. Do something just for you. So I took my own advice and I took an improv comedy class. I loved it. And then that kind of morphed to stand up because I am a writer at heart and I like, I, I joke about this when I do public speaking, but I always say I do not mind a spotlight aimed right at me.
I like to be on stage and I like to control the writing. So, um, 2022, [00:12:00] I did my first open mic at Raleigh Improv on a dare. My best friend dared me and said if I did it, she and her husband would go camping with us. And I'm like a huge quality time love language person. So I was like, okay. I've never been more scared in my entire life and I'm an dr.
I am an adrenaline junkie. I love scary things, but I was terrified, shaking backstage for my four minute set in 2022, but it was very successful. And then after three open mics, Raleigh Improv reached out to book me for a paid show. And I was like, nice, is this normal? And people were like, no. And it's been a really cool series of just like right place, right time moments where.
Now I perform all over. I have a bestselling show at Goodnight's Comedy Club for the ladies. Oh Ladies Life lounge. The next one's coming up later this spring. I performed East Coast out in la, so it's just been such a fun compliment [00:13:00] to my day job. And then as y'all hinted at now, the coolest thing of all is a hybrid of the two where I'm doing tons of speaking on the healing power of humor and laughter, which I didn't even honestly know about as a psychologist.
Until I got into this, and then I have done a deep nerd dive into the literature, and there's tons, we know about how humor helps us live longer. It helps our relationships, it helps our workplace culture, it helps our mental health, our physical health. So now it's just the coolest moment in my career to get on stage with various conferences and organizations.
It doesn't matter who it is. I've had family law attorneys. I've had really serious budget government people. That was my first keynote in December to speak on that. It doesn't matter the audience, the message, it lands every single time where everyone realizes, oh yeah, like we should bring more humor and [00:14:00] laughter into our lives.
We don't do nearly enough of it as adults. So. I got just a few of those balls in the air.
Wendy: I think I'm already hearing some hum guard effect. Oh yeah. No, we're gonna, I was like, we haven't
Hanna: even started.
Wendy: Yeah, we haven't even started yet. But all the layers of, you know how you've gone from one thing and then you've tried something else.
And that's impacted where you came from, right? I think that's really like what we're here to talk about today. Yes. Um, so I'm gonna lead us into that question and that is tell us about like a specific instance where something seemingly small that you did within your branding and marketing made a huge impact in another area of the business or something else you were trying to do.
Kristen Wynns: Sure. One of them is a bit related to what we were just. Talking about with just getting creative with multiple revenue streams for your business a let's call it. So, um, I can talk more about that, but the other thing that came to mind when [00:15:00] I was thinking about this is it is challenging when you name the business with your own name in it, right?
Mm-hmm. Like my last name wins. Was a part of it from the beginning, and I did find through the years that was actually tricky, where people would call up and they just wanted Dr. Wynns, they just wanted to work with Dr. Wynns. It's my name. So I did find that was a intentional marketing branding decision at some point that I needed to just be much more.
Open and I guess visual on our website and even in conversations to talk about the team to try to have whatever people were excited about to work with me translate because as, as y'all probably know, if you're in a services business. We all only get the 24 hours in the day, right? Right. So I can't be the one to always sit in front of the client or to [00:16:00] do, you know, a bunch of the other things.
I need a really talented team around me, um, that has the same heart and the same mission. Um, but that we can also get out there and. Our social media and our website and our branding and our marketing to say we at wins family psychology. So, um, that was tough. Um, but I do feel like we've been successful with that.
And another decision along the way, that is one of the smartest things I did, was to develop a couple of my top clinicians into becoming clinical leaders with me. So now I have my top two psychologists that have been with me. One's coming up on 14 years. The other one, 10 years, they were just independent contractor psychologists who joined my practice, but I saw they were really, really good at leadership and organization and vision.
So through the years, I would just continue to promote them and, and eventually, of course, [00:17:00] at some point they, um. Became employees. 'cause you can't do that much with independent contractors. But at some point we shifted them to leadership positions, employees. And that was one of the smartest things I did because again, sometimes you get a little bit, um, not selfish, but you get like.
You hold your business so precious that you know, nobody else could ever do it as great as you, but I have definitely learned trusting other people that share the vision. Even if on a weekly basis we see issues differently and they might be advising me, I think we should do this, and I say, no, I think this, I just find that is so helpful to have other people, even if they have different wiring and different personalities.
And different ways they would tackle a problem, because that's allowed me to really have that team approach at Wynn's family psychology and not have seeing the clients or the success of the practice just rest on my shoulders at this point. [00:18:00]
Wendy: Yes. So talk about how embracing that, um. That idea of shared vision has impacted culture?
'cause obviously, can you talk about kind of how it shifted over time?
Kristen Wynns: Sure. And, and I love the word culture. I know we probably overuse that these days in business, but culture is so important. And 18 years in again, I've seen that the people around you that you bring into your business can make or break culture.
Um, and when it's not going well, if you have a. Somebody that's just not, um, in line with expectations or brings a negative element, I can see how it becomes contagious really quickly. So we've been interviewing. In the last few weeks for new positions in my practice and in every single interview I'm talking about culture and I'm just coming right out with what I just told y'all that I need my culture to be one where we are excited to be at work.
[00:19:00] We do believe in laughing and having fun 'cause we're doing life changing work that sometimes is, is truly. Heart wrenching, but that means more than anyone, we need to have an outlet to just be goofy and silly. Um, and that is a part of our culture. But the decision to bring on, or I guess to promote the other two psychologists, I think that's impacted culture too.
Because I say this again when I'm interviewing and it's true. I've never had somebody in the 18 years we've been open, hit a ceiling. Of like, oh shoot, there's nowhere to grow anymore in the practice. So for myself, for my own career, and for the people on my team, I want us to feel like, Hey, there's no stopping us.
Like, like one of my psychologists, I think she's had four or five different titles now where I, I'm like, well, now I see you're really good at this, so now I'm gonna promote you to this. And then she was so good at that. I promoted her to this. So I [00:20:00] do think that is hopefully inspiring to everybody, even if you're just a part-time therapist that just does, you know, a couple mornings a week.
I hope that that culture of seeing, we believe in leadership. We believe in never hitting a plateau. We wanna keep growing. And that a little bit gets into the part two. Of my hummingbird effect of the multiple revenue streams. But I just think we should always be creative and never just think, okay, well we know what to expect.
Now we're gonna have these services and this is what we're gonna be focusing on with our team. It should always be exciting. Okay, what are we planning next for cutting edge services or for my own particular career to get out of seeing clients in the office as much, but to still be doing things with speaking coaching.
My retreat, my first retreat coming up this weekend. Just how can I keep innovating too? Because I think like that's what keeps our brains happy, and it also keeps attracting [00:21:00] people to your business if they see you've got that excitement for what's the next thing, whether it's a promotion or what service you're offering.
Wendy: So you've mentioned a couple of things that are really interesting in our space. Um, one is kind of shifting ownership from one person to the entity, even though you still have your name and the name of the company. Yes. Um, and then the other thing is that entrepreneurs really like think through so much.
Sometimes struggle with is how do I have multiple lines of revenue mm-hmm. Within the business to help grow the business to the next level.
Kristen Wynns: Yes.
Wendy: Talk about how you've been, and then you wrote a book as part of that, right? And the, and the humor stuff. So talk about how that stuff, how have you measured results of those things that you've done?
Kristen Wynns: Sure. And one more thing on the people around you. I. I really believe we need to be surrounding ourselves with people that are very different from us. So [00:22:00] the two psychologists that are leaders in my practice, we joke and laugh about this on a weekly basis. I am surprised. Surprised. Brace yourself. I'm big picture vision person.
I know. So I have the big ideas. Oh, we should do this. And then they are both wired to look 10 steps ahead and say, oh, but what about this? What about this? Okay, well how are you actually, what are the steps to get there? And I'm like no,
Wendy: just get there.
Kristen Wynns: I wanna do the big thing. I said, so I do just wanna note that sometimes that's humbling where I just, I don't wanna hear the reason why we have to slow it down and take three more weeks.
I wanted it done last week. But I do think, again, that's one of the smartest things I've done is surround myself with. Those people that think differently. Also, I believe why my husband and I are still married 27 years later. He's that type, even though it drives me crazy, I said I wanted a lake house last year.
Why don't we have a lake house yet? Um, so [00:23:00] as far as results, I mean, culture is a result that I know is not tangible. But I do think culture is part of why we win the awards. Yes, because people can tell we're different and we care in a really. Um, noticeable way, but also I started my business in 2007, which was a recession.
Nobody in their right mind was supposed to be starting a business then. And I knew zero about business, and my husband knew zero. I mean, I knew, I guess, from working for someone else. Yeah. But. We have bootstrapped it, figured it all out in the 18 years. We answered the phone, we bought the supplies, we cleaned the offices, we did the hiring.
Um, so I think we've been fortunate that we have never had years where we really had like a downturn in our, in our revenue or just in our growth. So, I mean, it's [00:24:00] tough times now. It's really tough for my industry. It's been tough since COVID with the competition from the online platforms. Mm-hmm. You know, the better help.
It's a whole new world. So yes, some of us are sweating referrals now, in a way we haven't because you just have to keep thinking, well, how do I stay one step ahead from this competition? But I do think we've seen the results in being able to expand locations and add on the four locations, and even through the pandemic.
We shut down four. I think one week and then we realized, thank goodness we're essential workers, right? And we were back in the office physically because we see kids. We couldn't do virtual sessions with a 4-year-old. So I think just in our expansion, expansion of our locations and our team, um, and the amount of clients we're able to help, um, is, is a good nod to results from some of these [00:25:00] decisions that, that we've been talking about.
Yeah.
So talk about how the multiple lines of income have influenced the business. 'cause you've got such kinda diverse things going on.
Kristen Wynns: Right. And I think some of it is like, what's to come next? Because obviously some of these things are still fledgling. Little cute things. Like my comedy career is three and a half years old.
And then for speaking. On [00:26:00] the healing power of humor. I started that for the first time in December, 2024. So I guess just had one year of that. But in the one year I had 10 paid speaking opportunities, which is great. Now they weren't like, you know, super fancy stipends and some I did for, for free. But I do think that potential now to have that out there where it's gotten better and better through the year.
And similar with comedy, like I've had two conferences in the last year that hired me for both. So I would speak as you know, a breakout session or a speaker on the healing power of humor. Then they would have me come and do entertainment as a comedian. So that just like one conference led to being booked at another conference where she saw me at one.
She was like, I wanna have you come to mind, I wanna do something different for the [00:27:00] participants. So some of this is still in the early stages, but it's actually been great when I've been feeling, um, a little guilty that I'm not in the office seeing. Eight clients in a day like I used to. But then when I see I've got some of these other things with momentum to still be contributing revenue and just with reputation that
Wendy: Right.
Kristen Wynns: Any of these things. Getting the word out for wind's, family psychology. When I'm speaking about it, I'm always talking about my practice, um, or, or writing about it. Then it's still like, great, just keeping the, the, I guess, the brand awareness that yes, we specialize in kids and teens and families, but even bigger picture, like our mission is to help people feel better.
So whether that's speaking or having them read my book or in the office. It's really important to me to think of how we can just get outside of the four walls and still be helping the world and helping our community. Feel better. Um, [00:28:00] oh, and, and then I just, this lake retreat that I mentioned, yeah, that was like a spinoff of these other things.
Where in the comedy side, um, I mentioned my show for women because I have a mission to elevate the scene for women in comedy. 'cause we're underrepresented only 27%. Standup comedians are women. So I have my show to elevate women and show that we can pack a comedy club, um, just like the guys. But as a female boss for 18 years, I am all about women empowerment.
And the more I, I get involved with networking groups, I'm just like, it's almost like I'm discovering it for the first time with how important networking and supporting each other is. So the lake retreat. Just came from that with realizing I've learned a lot now through all these different things I've done for how we can help each other and how I can help women take their business or their life to [00:29:00] the next level.
So I've got nine women coming to the lake with me this weekend who are just there for it. They wanna learn about writing or humor or comedy. Or just even developing their brand or their business. Yes, it's supposed to be a terrible snowstorm, and whoever saw that coming at Lake Gaston, so we'll see. We might end up power bonding and being stuck there for a week, but that's just another example where if you keep your eyes open to it and you're, you're open to getting creative, you can just take your passions from one thing to the next to the next.
And I'm hoping with a success of, of this one at least with. How many I got to sign up and assuming we come back from the snowstorm in intact, I'm hoping that'll be something I can keep going for the practice as another creative revenue stream for years and years to come.
Wendy: So I have a curious question mm-hmm. About humor and psychology and kids.
Hanna: Ooh. Okay.
Wendy: So are you, have [00:30:00] you, has that been like, um, a differentiator for you? In your practice to be able to deal with children and use humor to help them come through certain things.
And how open are the parents to that? And is that something that really makes you stand out because you do have like this such bubbly. Friendly and in humorous personality. Yeah. And oh, but you might be dealing with children with some pretty serious Right. Things going on. So talk about the duality of that and how that might play out
Kristen Wynns: Yes.
In your practice. Oh, I'm so glad you asked about that. 'cause I do, um, usually end up talking about that, especially when I'm speaking about humor and I say, um, part of the reason becoming a comedian wasn't. Shocking to people is because I have always used humor in my therapeutic work with clients, whether they're kids or adults, and I tell a story.
Um, that I had a client I worked with for [00:31:00] 12 years who had complex PTSD, severe depression. There were many times she and I were fighting for her life together. But then I say she and I joked more than any other client I've had where we were in dark times. But oftentimes during the darkest of times, she and I tapped into dark humor that was like, no joke, no pun intended, but.
Um, she was a great example of that where, and I always caution people, you have to have a relationship built first. Um, so it's not like you can just be yucking it up with somebody in an intake like, oh ha, you, we had relationship, but it was just a huge tool that we used in addition to all my fancy stuff I learned how to do in graduate school.
At the end of the day, I think the humor. We could use to connect or to let off steam was just as therapeutic as the actual therapy we did. And really cool. [00:32:00] Side note, she's doing great now. She hasn't needed to see me for some time, but she texted me. Like a while back with, um, a screenshot of a comedy show flyer, um, that she had found online, and she just texted me and said, why does this not surprise me?
Because she just like, was like, okay. Of course Dr. Wynn has become a comedian, but absolutely, I think it's part of what has made me a good child psychologist, because you can't be self-conscious or. Like too contained as a child psychologist, I would always say when I would be training new therapists, like I would be on the ground with my clients playing, being silly, doing voices, chasing them around with the characters.
So yes, I've always used like play and laughter with the kiddos and with their parents. You know, sometimes again, in parent coaching, these parents are stressed out or in marriage counseling, but. You know, I have a way of [00:33:00] kind of testing out. I mean, I think of just funny things all the time. So I would just, I would just let you know a comment come that would be humorous and then you can just kind of tell like if it lands or not.
But so many of my parent coaching clients, we would end up joking and laughing in, in marriage therapy. And again, it's, you know, right time, right place. But I just find that is such an important tool. That many of us greatly under utilize. When I speak, I talk about how kids laugh 300 times a day. And do y'all have a guess for how many times we as adults laugh in a day?
Wendy: No idea. Fun fact. I know the answer. Yeah.
Hanna: Is it like a hundred fifteen, fifteen,
Kristen Wynns: fifteen, fifteen? Is that that sad?
Hanna: That is sad.
Kristen Wynns: So we go from 300 to 15, so that's why Wow. I'm all about like, let's just up that number a little bit. Like let loose play more, be [00:34:00] silly, more. Wow. It's just like shocking how much that goes down as we mature and think that we have to be all proper all the time.
Wendy: So as a business owner for eight, you said 18 years. Yes. Right. So what kind of advice, if you could give one piece of advice to other entrepreneurs, um, kind of based on the changes that have happened over the last 18 years for you and what you've been able to do, what would that piece of advice be other than to laugh over a hundred times a day?
Right.
Kristen Wynns: Yeah. Yeah. Ooh, good question. I mean. I do think it's important to, I guess, not let the, the negative people get you down. Um, I mean, again, through the years, I have found, especially sometimes as a female boss, business owner, and this is my [00:35:00] personality. I mean, it is. So I think sometimes if I'm naturally bubbly and warm.
I haven't been taken seriously. Mm-hmm. Um, and I've had trouble with saying, no, seriously, I need this done. Like it's my practice. This needs to be done in this way. And I do think through the years, like with any business, you're gonna have people that don't agree with you or think this or that and say mean things about you.
And I have found that I'm probably just not wired for it. I have found that really hurt my feelings through the years when people would be. Saying mean things behind my back or even, you know, online reviews can be terrible, but. I've had decision points where I had to decide if I was gonna I guess take the high road, so to speak, or lower myself and say, well, no, let me tell you the real story.
And it has been extremely hard at times to take the high road. But I believe like we need to be true to our character. Be true to our values, [00:36:00] and it wouldn't really be in line with my values or who I am to lower myself. So even though I wanted to fight back or sling mud, I have strived, striven, strobe,
Hanna: all three,
Kristen Wynns: all of those swrl together to just.
Don't say anything at all if it's not kind or just say something positive. And I do think that has come back to serve me time and time again, because if I had lowered myself, I don't think I would've had the momentum to build these successes. So I'm proud of that, and I would just wanna encourage anyone.
In business or in life, you're gonna have people that say mean things about you or disagree with you, and sometimes it's tempting to wanna just get right in there and sling it back. But I would encourage them just to take the high road and get support again. Have your support network around you that reminds you who you are when you're like, well.
Am I this bad person? Have the people around you [00:37:00] that you keep close that can encourage you and pull you through those tough times.
Wendy: Oh girl. My 17-year-old daughter just took the high road and I'm so, and I'm so proud of her. But on the other hand, it's the mama bear. You're like.
Kristen Wynns: Hundred percent
Wendy: teenage girls can just count my mouth, mouth shut because I'm like, if you're gonna take the high road on this, you, that is a great thing.
Yes, that is a great thing. So, oh, that's awesome. Afraid advice. That's awesome. Yes, and I think it's so hard, especially teenage girls, but women of any age. Can really do it to each other. They really can. So, great advice. I agree. Um, what about innovation and experimentation? Obviously you're in it like every day, but what role has that played in your business and Hummingbird effects?
Kristen Wynns: Yeah. Well again, I think we're fortunate that we specialize in kids and teenagers. Because that [00:38:00] already, I, I think, just has a, a hint at an element of play and innovation. But I do think, again, part of the reason we've been successful through the years, and by the way, we, um, have always been outta network.
So I've had that hurdle of clients who. Have to be okay with paying up front and then getting reimbursed. Most do, but it's still a a pain. A lot of people just think, I wanna be in network. But I think part of the reason we've been successful, even with that model is we know with kids and teens, if you're gonna connect, you can't be sitting on your chair and have them on a couch and say, okay, tell me everything.
How are you feeling? You have to be innovative. So we use our outdoor space, which is really cool. So I have had countless therapy sessions where I'm outside in the little grassy area near our building, throwing a football with a kid or a Frisbee. Or collecting acorns or doing sidewalk [00:39:00] chalk. And that's, I mean, that's how you connect with kids.
I have my, I would have a child, um, on the autism spectrum out there and he and I would be practicing conversation as we toss the ball back and forth to have that reciprocity or doing things with personal space. So I do think like. Again, innovation to me just means not just having this constrained idea of what a therapy session is, and if I have a teenager that doesn't wanna talk, then we're gonna be getting out the art materials and we're gonna be coloring together or making jewelry together or.
With the guys, again, having a reward for them that if they do this activity with me, then they can show me five minutes or whatever Minecraft or YouTube thing that they're into. So I just think that, um, yes, with our kids and teens, but even with adults, you know, we need to just know it's not always gonna be sitting there.
Across the room [00:40:00] and expect the person to spill it. We need to bring in writing or mindfulness exercises or creativity doing even I've had even adults doing art things with me while we talk. So I guess that's, that's the first thing that comes to mind. Like, yeah,
Wendy: I like this idea of therapy.
Hanna: Right?
Wendy: I love this therapy.
Then we could also work. What do you think?
Kristen Wynns: Yeah. And become a client. We
Hanna: can go, I'll just bring my job. Start. Yeah.
Kristen Wynns: Ooh, that actually does make me think of something else too. Um. Sometimes people think therapy just means crisis. Like, oh my gosh, I gotta go in. But I love to preach that. I think everybody should enter into therapy for just like health and wellness.
Like I get my regular monthly massage 'cause I know if I don't, then I will start to feel the tension lock in my neck and my back and all that. So I feel the same for therapy. I mean. Everybody could use [00:41:00] somebody, not their best friend or their spouse, to just be a sounding board, give objective advice. So I also think, I don't know if that's innovation, but I do like to encourage people.
Mm-hmm. Just consider therapy, like self-care and wellness. And if you're not in crisis. That's even better. 'cause then we can really take where you are in your life and just talk about, well, where do you wanna go? What are your dreams? Like, what are barriers that keep getting you stuck? So that is also my idea of fun and some of what I'm doing in my coaching.
Now, believe it or not, that's like the six or seven thing. Now I'm doing humor coaching. And it's so fun. It's kind of like what I was just talking about where, um, she's, I have my one, one client so far that's irregular, but she's in a very demanding, stressful job and dealing with a parent with Alzheimer's, so, oh
Wendy: wow.
Kristen Wynns: Um, I guess we could kind of call that a crisis, but it means it's more like a chronic stressor, right? Mm-hmm. [00:42:00] She is doing the most amazing work with me, where we're turning her. Stressful times at work and caring for her mom into comedy. She's doing like comic strip drawings and silly like, um, improv scenes of her day job and, and actually like a mean girl at her day job.
And it's been so fun 'cause she just wants something different to think creatively. And that's, you know, part of what the humor. Talk is about is when we face tough moments in life, you can feel, you know, kind of give into discouragement, sadness, frustration, resentment, or you can just pivot and find a more humorous approach to it.
And. Not every time. Obviously tragedies and trauma is real, but a lot of times if you reframe it and find the funny in it like she's doing, or even just find a creative way of approaching the problem, it's amazing how that can just take your life to the next level too. [00:43:00]
Wendy: Wow. What
Hanna: do you
Wendy: think, Anna? I'm gonna toss it over to you 'cause you've been taking notes like crazy with the hot pink pin matches.
Beautiful notebook. Yeah. Yeah.
Hanna: I will say I didn't take as many notes as I normally do 'cause I would start and you'd start going on another topic and I didn't wanna miss it. Um. So I really took a lot from this and I'm like, hoping I can keep it all in my brain or re-listen and write it all back down.
Yeah. Um, but I just kind of wanted to recap some of the things that I was hearing. Sure. And you just kind of added on more. So we'll see if I cover it all. So any to anyone listening that is an entrepreneur, a business leader, or. You're interested in becoming one. What I'm taking away from you is that your hummingbird effect.
What the small change that was your hummingbird effect was to look beyond yourself. Hmm. And that for you, there was a couple of things. It was looking beyond your namesake business mm-hmm. And allowing [00:44:00] other people to hold and lead that business, which is hard.
Kristen Wynns: Yes.
Hanna: Um, but it was also listening beyond your schooling and what people tell you is the normal.
To do, and you kind of just touched on that where we think it's crisis. So I'm sure hearing this, it was like, well, do you laugh at the, the bad? Right. But no, that's not what it is. It's just rephrasing a time that's hard to get through or a vulnerable time for anyone to admit. Needing to speak to someone.
Kristen Wynns: Right.
Hanna: Um, and then that's where I kind of just started, like scribbling a bunch of others. Oh my gosh.
Kristen Wynns: A plus though. Isn't that I'm, I'm like moved, like emotionally hearing you talk about my life. Like, that's amazing. Yeah. Really good.
Hanna: But I, one of the big things that I starred to keep for myself, but was by looking beyond yourself, you had time to find your strength in other pieces.
Your comedy coaching. Your standup comedy. Yeah. Bringing women into a room together. Yeah. And you allowed other people who were better at, not better. [00:45:00] You started a company, it's successful, but people that maybe want to be in those office leadership roles a little bit more. You allowed them to be there.
And you guys have grown and there's so much I could continue to say, but those are some of my takeaways.
Wendy: Yay. She has amazing insights. Always.
Hanna: She really does that well. I'm not the business owner. I learn and I, everybody that we speak to, I just learn something new and you start to hear a little bit of connections.
But the fun, I don't, I don't know if we really had a lot of
Wendy: Not intentional.
Hanna: Not intentional, fun. Yes. Something you do allow the room for fun, but yours is kind of the opposite. Let's start with fun.
Kristen Wynns: Yes.
Hanna: And we'll succeed.
Kristen Wynns: Yes. And it's a habit that you can develop. Sometimes people think, oh, I'm, I don't have a sense of humor.
I'm not that type. But, um, humor is a skill. Mm-hmm. And a habit just like anything else. So there are all kinds of things I talk about with [00:46:00] bringing that into your day-to-day life. But absolutely anybody can bring more fun and humor into their lives. They just have to be willing to try just one little thing a day and you can take off with it.
Hanna: Well, and it sounds like you allow. For those conversations to happen. Because I have been with someone where it's like a story I can think of is we were all taking a picture and we were like, do a funny face. And someone was like, well, I'm not funny or I don't have that personality. Yeah. And that's obviously stuck with me that that was said because I was like, what do you mean just stick out your tongue or
Wendy: Yeah.
Hanna: But you allow them to be the kind of funny that.
Wendy: They can be
Hanna: a
Wendy: sour push and
Hanna: that they can be whatever. Funny is funny to them. And it sounds as though you allow it. If they have dark humor, if they have, I don't know any other types of humor, but
Kristen Wynns: yeah.
Hanna: Sarcastic or, but don't self-deprecating. You don't judge them for whatever it is as long as everyone around you is having fun in their own way.
Kristen Wynns: Yes. And, and I'm gonna take your insight, Hannah, and then just do a quick boom [00:47:00] ring. Okay. Because then you just gave me one. So I like the word fun as a recap, but also I just had this thought that I've never thought about before with authenticity.
Hanna: Yes,
Kristen Wynns: you can never be a good therapist, um, at all if you're not authentically true to yourself and the way you talk and whatever.
Clients would not want anything to do with it if you were just trying to, you know, conform to something on stage as a comedian. If you're not delivering material that really resonates with you and what you find funny, the audience isn't gonna laugh. Right? And as a public speaker, if you're standing up there speaking about something that you don't really have burning with passion in your heart, it's also gonna be kind of a flop.
So I just had that thought that authenticity is also like a key thing. Yeah. And again, just like, yeah. Like your example of the person that said they don't have a funny face, or they can't do that. Yeah. Like we get too much in our heads. Exactly. Like just be yourself. Just whatever comes out, don't think about it.
Just do it and then the [00:48:00] rest will follow. Right.
Hanna: And surround yourself with people that wouldn't. You know, judge you or
Kristen Wynns: That's
Hanna: right. I guess. Or judge you and tell you that was ridiculous. So you can be better friends. But yeah, that's just something that was in my head the entire time you were speaking.
Yes. Just allowing people to be their best self. And you kind of touched on that. Um, I. Of having good people and trusting in your people, and then promoting from within. I think yes, that all goes to just letting people be authentic. Yes. Where you are.
Kristen Wynns: Ooh, we've just been to church on a Tuesday afternoon.
Yes. Preach.
Wendy: Oh, Dr. Wins. Thank you so much. This has been amazing. It's great to see you again. Yeah, you too. Have you in the studio. Um, and we really appreciate you giving us your time this afternoon and coming to church. Of
Kristen Wynns: course.
Wendy: Yeah. So for our listeners, tell them how they can get in touch with you, how they can find you and all the things.
Kristen Wynns: Okay. My website is a great first stop. Wins family psychology.com. [00:49:00] W-Y-N-N-S wins family psychology.com. That has tons of resources. We also do a ton on our Facebook page so people follow wins. Family psychology, it's mostly resources and tips, very little. I mean, we might talk about events we have coming up, but we really want that to be easy resources for people.
Um, and then. On the comedy side, if people wanna see Kiki in action, they can follow me on Instagram. I also use that Instagram for, um, speaking and the lake retreats and things. So that's Kiki's Comedy Club, K-I-K-I-S, Kiki's Comedy Club. And by the way. I thought when I first got into comedy that I would keep my world completely separate and no one would ever know that Dr.
Wynns was the same as Kiki. And then that all fell apart the first
Hanna: time I
Kristen Wynns: performed. But oh, and I also have a website for the comedy stuff too, Kiki's comedy club.com. So that's probably a good place to start. They can also find me on LinkedIn and I, and I'm happy for anyone to reach out to [00:50:00] me, um, even if they don't wanna work with me directly, if they just.
I wanna know, well what should they do about this? Or could we help with this? I always welcome that so people can find my email on the website or DM me with this social media. And I'm always happy to be a resource 'cause I've been around now for a while. So if I can't help, I can probably direct them to someone who can.
Wendy: Awesome. Thank you. Yes,
Kristen Wynns: thank
Wendy: you all
Kristen Wynns: Well,
Wendy: and thank you to all the listeners for listening to this episode today and take what we've learned today and go find your hummingbird effect.