7. Giving Learners a Voice

What is Learner Agency?

Discussions around the importance of Learner Agency in the educational process.

Beth Strike (00:07):
Hello, and welcome to the Central Rivers AEA Learning on Demand Podcast. I'm Beth Strike and I'm the director of creative services and communications. But most importantly, I'm a mom of two who loves learning about innovation in our local schools.
Today, I'm here with Jen Sigrist, executive director of educational services and a leading expert on future ready practices. Hello, Jen. Welcome.

Jen Sigrist (00:31):
Hi Beth.

Beth Strike (00:31):
It's good to talk again.

Jen Sigrist (00:32):
Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.

Beth Strike (00:34):
Yeah, we're going to have a good time today. So we're going to dig back into this Learner Agency stuff. As you know, I'm learning all the time about this. I think it's fascinating. And we're going to talk a little bit more about the differences between learner-centered and learner-driven. So let's dive in. Okay. I'm kind of a novice at all this. We've touched on a little of this in previous podcast. But essentially the difference between learner-centered and learner-driven, what would you say?

Jen Sigrist (01:00):
Well, ultimately it's... I mean, what you would imagine when you hear learner-driven, it's the learner driving their learning. But so often we hear the phrase learner-centered. And of course, every teacher is going to say, "Oh yeah, I'm learner-centered. I care about kids. It's why I got involved in education. I think about them when I'm designing my lessons. They're at the center of what I do." So being learner-centered is, "Yes. Oh, I'm absolutely learner-centered."
But when we change that word to really what we're trying to capture in it and say, "Okay, learner-driven," then we're really left with this idea, "Oh, maybe I'm more teacher-driven when I'm thinking about my learner." And so this learner-centered idea, if you're really talking about the learner being at the center of what's happening and that the learner is driving the learning, oh, that might be something different than I thought. So clarifying that difference is really why I wanted to have this conversation with you today. Because being learner-driven is putting that learner in that ownership seat of the learning process.

Beth Strike (02:11):
Got you. Okay. And I know we want to get into this whole idea of voice and choice, and sometimes we just put those two words together. You and I were just talking a little bit before we started this about... I said, it's kind of like culture and climate. We just say, culture climate, like it's one thing. Same with voice and choice, like voice and choice. But there's really some pretty... There are some very significant differences.

Jen Sigrist (02:30):
Yeah.

Beth Strike (02:30):
Do you want to get into that?

Jen Sigrist (02:31):
Sure. Well, as you can imagine, if you have choice, that's a great opportunity for giving kids that ability to say, "Oh, what do I want to do?" But that's not necessarily giving them a voice or a say in what choices are provided. Choice can really be a teacher-centered move. It's a great first step. And we've talked about that with student agency. That choice is a wonderful way to bring in strategies to engage kids in learning. But it's not necessarily sufficient when we think about kids being in the driver's seat of their learning.
So clarifying voice as really giving the students voice in what they're learning and how they're learning is a little different than just giving them choice. So what's the learner saying about what they want to learn? What's the learner voicing in that learning process about their learning? How are they taking their next steps and thinking about what they're interested in? So the teacher could be deciding the choice options without even really considering the student voice. So that's really why we want to clarify the difference between the two.

Beth Strike (03:49):
Got you. Got you. So what advice do you have for teachers in trying to do that?

Jen Sigrist (03:53):
I think one real simple way or a starting point for a teacher is to use surveys. Quick examples of ways to get feedback from the class about something that the teacher could do in the classroom differently, or to help make a decision. Survey the kids. That's something you could do K-12. Every teacher has an opportunity to think, okay, could I survey my class and ask them what do you want to do next to give them a little voice in how I handle this next situation or what we learn next, or if we do this or that. So that might be an easy way to start.
You could also think about even providing some open-ended activities. Where if I'm thinking about my instruction, rather than saying, "We're going to do X, Y, and Z," where can I leave some open-ended responses or some open-ended activities? Like maybe instead of a science lab, saying "Do step one, two and three," say "How would you create this experiment so that you could tell what happens when? Or that you could answer this question." So they're creating the steps.
Same thing, like in a kind of a STEM. I've seen classrooms where, "Okay, you have these materials. How could you use these materials to hold the most amount of weight." Or I'm always in a third grade classroom. "Who can hold the most pennies? You all only have five pieces of paper and you have to span this 10-inch span. How would you do it?" So it's open-ended and it gives them a lot of voice in thinking about how I want to tackle that problem, how I want to work together or alone, and how I want to try to solve them. That might be another avenue to try is building in open-ended activities into your instruction.
There's also leadership within the classroom to think about, whether... Again, in an elementary setting that might look like jobs. Where could I assign different roles in my classroom? Have classroom jobs. Or in the secondary, it might be leading discussions. It could be, okay, you're going to have different groups and your group's going to be responsible for teaching the other groups about your subject or about your article or about your perspective or about your character's thoughts. And you get to do it any way you want to. How do you think it's going to be best to get that across to your classmates?
But one of my favorites, even to really extend this. And I just think it's great to even think about giving kids that voice in their community. There's a website. The United Nation has sustainability goals. And so it's really gives the kids a chance to experience some projects, but there are 17 different goals that you can connect to almost any content area. And if you look at the United Nations sustainability goals, there are just options for you to think about building those in. They're real world problems, real world situations that kids could have a voice in not only tackling, but trying to bring into the classroom to solve. So those would be just some examples.

Beth Strike (07:14):
Those are great examples. That really helped me. I mean, just not even... As you know, coming at it from more of a mom perspective, I'm thinking those are observable things that as a parent, I could really see that are happening in the classroom. And it just seems like a great direction to take it.
Undoubtedly, there're going to be kids that do struggle with finding their voice. I mean, I think we've talked in previous podcasts, some kids are just wired to want to know what is it I have to do, and then to sort of perform to that. So if a kid is... I shouldn't say a kid. If a student is struggling to find their voice, what advice would you give?

Jen Sigrist (07:48):
Oh, sure. Well, everyone will be to start. And people struggle to find their voice in different contexts. Like we know in different situations, some of us can find our voice more easily than another. So your question's spot on.
One thing I would say is building in the opportunity intentionally to talk about different opinions and perspectives. I mean, sure, that's a language arts standard, but any subject could build in just the conversation about, "Okay, that's how you solved this? Who has another perspective?"
Just having that kind of environment in the classroom where the teacher expects other perspectives to be shared, starts to generate the notion that, "Oh, not only is that going to be an expectation I'm going to hear from my teacher, but that's okay. Like that's the way that it is. There are supposed to be more perspectives. There's more way to tackle this problem than just one. And that's expected. I need to be ready to share my thinking." So that might be one way to start creating that place where kids can expect to hear different opinions and different perspectives.
As a side note, for a teacher, that's a great way to start building some social, emotional learning. I mean, we're hearing a lot about that.

Beth Strike (09:05):
Exactly.

Jen Sigrist (09:05):
And I know it's so hard for teachers to think about all the ways to build in those pieces.

Beth Strike (09:10):
Yes.

Jen Sigrist (09:10):
But that's a really great way to build in one of those components about self-awareness and relationship skills, just even thinking about perspectives and... So just a really simple strategy to think about.
The other thing I might talk about is conferencing. Whether you're thinking that on a formal level, or just as you're walking between students doing work, independent work or group work, you're going to hear, "What should I do next?" But hearing that from the teacher, "What should you do next?" rather than "Let me tell you the answer as a teacher," help students think about, "Oh, I've got to have some ideas here. This is on me to think about next steps."

Beth Strike (09:57):
Yeah.

Jen Sigrist (09:58):
And that's part of the art of teaching is knowing when they're so frustrated, they don't have the... Where could they go to help figure out those next steps? But just the teacher saying things like, "What do you think your next steps are?" can really get to, "Oh, I've got a responsibility. I have some say here. I have a voice in this next step." It's more of that we, us instead of you.

Beth Strike (10:23):
Exactly.

Jen Sigrist (10:26):
Kind of you [inaudible 00:10:28] will do, and me, I'm telling you kind of approach. So it sounds different that way. What do you think your ideas are? How might that look?

Beth Strike (10:38):
It's a whole...

Jen Sigrist (10:38):
What do you think?

Beth Strike (10:40):
... switch, isn't it?

Jen Sigrist (10:40):
Yeah.

Beth Strike (10:40):
Yeah.

Jen Sigrist (10:41):
Right.

Beth Strike (10:41):
And you and I were talking too. I mean, we can't say enough about our teachers and all of the things teachers are trying to do right now in the midst of... Of course, we'll date this podcast a little bit by just saying we're sort of... I don't know. Are we saying we're coming out of the pandemic? Is this an endemic? But it's obviously been a really trying time for teachers. So kudos to all of them for making the attempts to work these kinds of things in.
So here's what I'm hearing you say. Maybe just as a summary. It's as much about helping them develop their voice as it is about helping them use their voice. Would that be fair?

Jen Sigrist (11:14):
Oh gosh, Beth, absolutely. That is the summary. That you hit the nail on the head. It's not something that you can assign and it's not something that a student's going to arrive and be done with. It is an ongoing process and we can't expect them to have it. And just even as adults, we don't have it the same in each context. So knowing that it's safe to share opinions and knowing that there are different perspectives, wouldn't we love all adults to have that ability to recognize opinions, perspectives, share their voice.

Beth Strike (11:48):
Yes.

Jen Sigrist (11:49):
And just really think about that for a deeper understanding and deeper learning. That's where kids get engaged and that's where real meaning making happens.

Beth Strike (11:58):
Love it. All right. Anything else you want to add, Jen?

Jen Sigrist (12:01):
Oh, no, Beth. [inaudible 00:12:02] just been a joy talking with you.

Beth Strike (12:02):
Yeah, as always. All right. This has been another Central Rivers AEA Learning on Demand Podcast.