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Conversations about marketing and business. Hosted by Dave Gerhardt (Founder of Exit Five, Former CMO). Join the top community for B2B marketers at exitfive.com
Dave [0:00:01]: You're listening to the Dave Gerhardt Show.
Dmitry [0:00:17]: Welcome and what's your process today.
Dmitry [0:00:18]: I'm am joined by the founder of Exit Five, mister Dave Gerhardt.
Dmitry [0:00:22]: Dave how's it going.
Dave [0:00:23]: To meet Dmitry good to see you man.
Dave [0:00:25]: Thank you for having me.
Dave [0:00:25]: Fan or fan of the pod.
Dave [0:00:28]: Actually, I haven't listened to an episode yet I told you that.
Dave [0:00:30]: But you reached out.
Dave [0:00:32]: And I I said yes to coming on because I think it's fun to do a podcast with someone you know, I host a podcast and so I do these a lot, but it's really fun to, like, not be interviewing today and something like, heck.
Dave [0:00:45]: Like, hey.
Dave [0:00:46]: This is actually the easiest meeting that I have today.
Dave [0:00:48]: So I'm happy to be here.
Dmitry [0:00:50]: I'm glad to hear that.
Dmitry [0:00:51]: Hopefully it's the most fun as well.
Dave [0:00:53]: I will be.
Dave [0:00:53]: For sure.
Dave [0:00:54]: I just talked about, my tax, my tax bill and my account accounting for next year, so, can't be worse than that.
Dmitry [0:01:01]: Weirdly enough.
Dmitry [0:01:02]: I did the exact same thing before this.
Dmitry [0:01:04]: Not not even kidding you.
Dmitry [0:01:06]: Good times like, accounting, Who knew that that would be...
Dmitry [0:01:09]: Like, is that...
Dmitry [0:01:10]: What we should talk about today?
Dave [0:01:12]: I mean, there's so much to impact.
Dave [0:01:13]: I will say that, one of the onions, I think, you know, you run your own business.
Dave [0:01:17]: I'm running my own business Man, I've learned so much about things I never paid attention to in school or in life until I I think...
Dave [0:01:25]: What's your process a big part of my process is like, I typically don't pay attention to anything until I actually have to, like, do it.
Dave [0:01:31]: Personally, that's how I learned.
Dave [0:01:33]: So I'm learning a lot right now.
Dmitry [0:01:37]: Honestly, same.
Dmitry [0:01:38]: Or it's like, I...
Dmitry [0:01:39]: I've always thought, like, there are a lot of these things.
Dmitry [0:01:41]: I'll just figure it out when it comes time and then say, oh, this is actually, like, a super complicated complex nuance.
Dmitry [0:01:46]: Thing.
Dave [0:01:47]: Today's the day to figure it out.
Dmitry [0:01:49]: Yeah.
Dmitry [0:01:49]: I I have twenty minutes to figure out this thing that people study for, you know, twenty years Lives.
Dmitry [0:01:53]: But, you know, accounting aside.
Dmitry [0:01:57]: What do people need to know about you?
Dave [0:01:59]: Well, my name is Dave Dave Care heart I am a dad husband.
Dave [0:02:04]: I live in Vermont, and I've made a career as a marker.
Dave [0:02:09]: I started my career accidentally got a internship in P r and worked at a P agency because it was like, one of the only places that I could really get a job at that would pay me any money.
Dave [0:02:20]: It was hourly, you know, like, ten bucks an hour as an intern.
Dave [0:02:23]: And that's my first real like, business.
Dave [0:02:25]: I never really thought about business.
Dave [0:02:27]: I wanted to be doing sports or, like, cool things.
Dave [0:02:29]: And I got into a company and it was awesome.
Dave [0:02:32]: I I turned...
Dave [0:02:33]: It was like, I learned a lot.
Dave [0:02:34]: It was good at my job.
Dave [0:02:35]: I got to rise up through the company and then kinda par that into a career in marketing, and I've now done the psycho analysis on myself and realize that there's a bunch of common threads here, which is, like, I've always loved, presenting performing, writing, creating and marketing is kind of that role inside of a business.
Dave [0:02:53]: I was Cmo at a couple of tech startups.
Dave [0:02:56]: There were two acquisitions.
Dave [0:02:58]: And then I was able to start my own business, which is Exit Five, which is a community for b to b marketing professionals.
Dave [0:03:05]: We have an online community.
Dave [0:03:06]: We do events.
Dave [0:03:07]: We create content.
Dave [0:03:08]: And having a lot of fun doing that.
Dave [0:03:10]: So that's my intro.
Dmitry [0:03:12]: Love that.
Dmitry [0:03:12]: And, you know, for people who maybe are not aware of Exit Five.
Dmitry [0:03:16]: This is not sponsored, but I am a member, and I'm very happy that I'm a member.
Dmitry [0:03:21]: So highly highly encouraged.
Dave [0:03:24]: You are, actually, we got a big...
Dave [0:03:25]: There's a big name, like, hundred million dollar plus revenue company, Cmo joined on a Saturday morning, and her, you know, Ut underscore source referral was to meet you seam.
Dave [0:03:39]: So shout to you, Dude.
Dave [0:03:41]: Thank you.
Dmitry [0:03:42]: I'll, I I'll send you my address for the for the cut later.
Dave [0:03:45]: You know got you.
Dave [0:03:46]: Gotcha.
Dave [0:03:46]: So it's funny.
Dave [0:03:47]: You've...
Dave [0:03:47]: You know, I'm I'm glad you're happy because you've, like, accidentally or unintentionally, like, major way into...
Dave [0:03:53]: Company lore because I'm putting this on the record for anybody.
Dave [0:03:57]: Who doesn't know.
Dave [0:03:58]: We did our first event last year, so we've now done it twice our big annual conference and Dmitry was one of the people that kinda took a chance and got a ticket and ended up having a blast.
Dave [0:04:06]: And he was leaving Chicago, you know, Chicago to Burlington It would just fly o here to Burlington.
Dave [0:04:13]: Was it direct?
Dave [0:04:13]: Yeah.
Dave [0:04:14]: Yeah.
Dave [0:04:14]: Yeah.
Dave [0:04:14]: He posted from the airport.
Dave [0:04:16]: Like, I'm on my way to Vermont to aka, like, the b to b Mecca, which is just like, such an insider, Joe Cal hilarious set the whole tone off for the, you know, right?
Dave [0:04:26]: Like, this this guy's coming to Vermont for a marketing conference, B2b b marketing conference.
Dave [0:04:30]: And so...
Dave [0:04:31]: And then this year, I put that in my deck, you know, when I did an intro and welcome.
Dave [0:04:35]: Like, I I welcomed everybody back to the b b Mecca.
Dave [0:04:38]: So you've branded it.
Dave [0:04:40]: I'm glad you're wearing your brand hat because you helped this brand.
Dave [0:04:42]: Vermont re brand Vermont as the b b Mecca.
Dmitry [0:04:46]: Well, we'll talk to the tourism board and make it happen.
Dmitry [0:04:48]: Just like Vermont, a b to b state.
Dave [0:04:51]: High taxes in Vermont, cold weather, no billboards.
Dave [0:04:54]: Did you know that there...
Dave [0:04:54]: This is...
Dave [0:04:55]: I don't know if it's the only state.
Dave [0:04:56]: I'll have to Google it, but there's...
Dave [0:04:57]: You cannot...
Dave [0:04:58]: Billboards are illegal here.
Dave [0:04:59]: What?
Dave [0:05:00]: Not good for brand advertising and now officially the the b mecca.
Dmitry [0:05:05]: Wow.
Dmitry [0:05:05]: Yeah.
Dmitry [0:05:05]: I mean, b to b Mecca with no out of home is...
Dmitry [0:05:08]: Or I guess there's out of home.
Dmitry [0:05:09]: There's just no billboards, but that's that's pretty fantastic.
Dave [0:05:13]: Well, what would out of home?
Dave [0:05:14]: Yeah.
Dave [0:05:14]: Is there...
Dave [0:05:14]: Is that true?
Dave [0:05:15]: Like, can you have out of home with no billboards?
Dave [0:05:17]: Like, what is that...
Dave [0:05:18]: What is...
Dave [0:05:18]: What would that mean?
Dmitry [0:05:20]: Like, you know, buses.
Dave [0:05:21]: No.
Dave [0:05:21]: Yeah.
Dave [0:05:22]: I guess, I can have all
Dmitry [0:05:23]: and inside and
Dave [0:05:24]: no dentures perhaps.
Dave [0:05:25]: Okay.
Dave [0:05:25]: That's fair.
Dmitry [0:05:27]: There's subway.
Dmitry [0:05:27]: Yeah.
Dmitry [0:05:28]: There's no subway.
Dmitry [0:05:28]: Train.
Dave [0:05:30]: There's subway.
Dave [0:05:30]: Like, the sandwich restaurant.
Dave [0:05:31]: There's no subway.
Dmitry [0:05:33]: I mean, that's clearly sponsoring and all sorts of things.
Dmitry [0:05:35]: Anyways, so...
Dmitry [0:05:37]: But it was it was an honor being featured in two of your keynote.
Dmitry [0:05:42]: Unexpected.
Dmitry [0:05:44]: And now I'm sitting here just, like, you know, I'm I'm coming, in September to to s to the third one.
Dmitry [0:05:52]: So, you know, by buy take to drive folks, but, I'm like, am I gonna make the third?
Dmitry [0:05:57]: Am I going for the hatch on this?
Dave [0:05:59]: Yeah.
Dave [0:05:59]: You're coming.
Dmitry [0:06:00]: Yeah.
Dmitry [0:06:00]: No.
Dmitry [0:06:01]: No.
Dmitry [0:06:01]: No.
Dmitry [0:06:01]: I'm I'm physically, I will ask the key will I make keynote know Yeah Yeah.
Dmitry [0:06:05]: Absolutely.
Dmitry [0:06:05]: No pressure, obviously.
Dave [0:06:07]: Absolutely.
Dave [0:06:07]: No pressure.
Dave [0:06:08]: We're now shifting this...
Dave [0:06:10]: It's a strictly pay for play model, so I'm, I'm not sure who I'm gonna mention in the keynote now, but we will we'll let you know.
Dmitry [0:06:16]: Well, you know what, keep that referral bonus.
Dmitry [0:06:18]: For yourself and we'll we'll call it even.
Dave [0:06:20]: Thank you.
Dmitry [0:06:21]: Alright.
Dmitry [0:06:21]: Good.
Dmitry [0:06:21]: Noted.
Dmitry [0:06:21]: Noted.
Dmitry [0:06:22]: Perfect.
Dmitry [0:06:22]: So, Dave, what is one thing your world class at?
Dave [0:06:29]: Talking shit.
Dave [0:06:29]: No.
Dave [0:06:31]: That's not the real on one.
Dave [0:06:32]: Not the real.
Dave [0:06:33]: I'm a world class shit talker.
Dave [0:06:35]: I think it's a huge part of humans and and our connection.
Dave [0:06:39]: I think it's very important.
Dave [0:06:40]: I think I'm a world class copywriter.
Dave [0:06:44]: Self proclaimed world class copywriter.
Dave [0:06:47]: And when I talk about copywriting, I actually think there's probably p plenty of people who might read my writing and think that I'm a shit writer.
Dave [0:06:55]: It's not pretty.
Dave [0:06:56]: It's not perfect, but I think I'm excellent at getting people's attention getting a point across and finding a way to say that through words, that comes out in a bunch of different formats, I'm the person, like, in my family that if my wife is struggling to write that kinda strong, but not being a dick, like, kinda forceful email to the school.
Dave [0:07:19]: She wants to consult with me and be, like, how would you say this?
Dave [0:07:23]: And she's like, oh, that's such a better way of saying that.
Dave [0:07:26]: And it's, like, You're not directly being an asshole, but, like, you're you're saying.
Dave [0:07:30]: Like, you're being firm.
Dave [0:07:31]: Last night.
Dave [0:07:32]: I was literally rewriting an ad for one of our sponsors in our newsletter.
Dave [0:07:37]: We we rewrote the headline.
Dave [0:07:38]: We rewrote the image.
Dave [0:07:39]: We, you know, made a bunch of changes and the sponsors was like, oh my god.
Dave [0:07:42]: Is this is way better.
Dave [0:07:43]: And so that's the thing that I feel most comfortable doing and best at.
Dmitry [0:07:50]: That's awesome.
Dmitry [0:07:51]: I I love that answer because I think, like, there's there's a lot of angles that know, when when when I was thinking about who I wanted for for the show.
Dmitry [0:07:58]: Obviously, you're you're near the top of this, but, like, copywriting something my mind building community with something That I was, am I right?
Dmitry [0:08:05]: Like, just in general, like, the the the idea of even bringing people together beyond, like, our b to b definition of what community, I think you've you've done a good job at.
Dmitry [0:08:14]: Start, like, you were you were literally the first person I ever met that started the podcast.
Dmitry [0:08:19]: I don't know what that says about who I was, you know, a decade ago, but
Dave [0:08:25]: I think that was normal though, because the the way that we...
Dave [0:08:27]: The way that we met was at Hubspot, and I actually...
Dave [0:08:30]: It was really weird because the company that I was at went out of, affected, like, went out of business, and I had a podcast on the side, and Mike Volt was a Cmo Hubspot at the time.
Dave [0:08:39]: Was had a relationship with that company, and he knew my podcast, and he knew that the...
Dave [0:08:43]: You, I didn't really have a home, and he decided to him and Joe Turn off.
Dave [0:08:47]: They had this idea.
Dave [0:08:48]: They were gonna hire a podcast producer at Hubspot, which was, like, a crazy idea at it's time because nobody even had a podcast cast and to pay someone, I don't know, like, eight eighty grand or whatever to, like, host a podcast full time was was crazy.
Dave [0:09:00]: I would tell my friends about it It was like, embarrassing almost.
Dave [0:09:03]: Was like, wait, your job is what?
Dave [0:09:04]: And then, like, I hated, like, walking around Hubspot and, like, meeting new people because they're were...
Dave [0:09:09]: I just thought it was, like the do thing ever, like, oh, this is Dave.
Dave [0:09:12]: He's our new podcast producer and people are like, a what?
Dmitry [0:09:16]: Well, you know, it's it's funny.
Dmitry [0:09:18]: So I I don't...
Dmitry [0:09:19]: I've never actually told you this story, but I I told someone else this just the other day.
Dmitry [0:09:23]: Yeah.
Dmitry [0:09:24]: So, like, a lot of people assumed just because, like, we're cool now that we were, like, buddies back then.
Dmitry [0:09:28]: And I'm, like, we were talking jeez.
Dave [0:09:30]: Are you gonna tell if but we didn't like me on this.
Dmitry [0:09:33]: Dave was the worst.
Dmitry [0:09:33]: No.
Dmitry [0:09:33]: No.
Dmitry [0:09:33]: Not at all.
Dmitry [0:09:34]: But...
Dmitry [0:09:35]: You know, we were we were just two guys working in an office, and we knew each, and I'd I'd say we were cool, but, like, you know, we weren't, like, hanging out after work or anything like that.
Dmitry [0:09:44]: But, like, I was also, like, in my mind, like, I was, like, the the new guy in Boston, and I just moved from New York.
Dmitry [0:09:50]: I was, like, I'm generally like, an introvert, like, doing this is always, like, a wild thing for me.
Dmitry [0:09:56]: So I'd been at the company for six seven months at that point.
Dmitry [0:10:00]: And, a body of mind came up for inbound.
Dmitry [0:10:03]: And it was this, like, inbound fifteen or something like that.
Dmitry [0:10:05]: Like and he was talking about how he wanted to start a podcast, but he didn't know how.
Dmitry [0:10:09]: And I was like, I know it's...
Dmitry [0:10:11]: I I know who to talk to.
Dmitry [0:10:12]: And I was like, this is the perfect way.
Dmitry [0:10:14]: I'm, like, I'm gonna I'm gonna get him Dave.
Dmitry [0:10:16]: And then, literally, like, that Monday you had put in your notice.
Dmitry [0:10:18]: And I was like, I guess, I'm not getting entertained.
Dave [0:10:23]: I thought you're gonna say, like, you tried to set me up with this guy, and I was, like, just come up, like, didn't even take the meeting and I was like a complete dick because I can be that way sometimes, so it's better.
Dmitry [0:10:34]: No.
Dmitry [0:10:34]: You're you're you're a great shit talker, but you're a good dude.
Dmitry [0:10:36]: So no.
Dmitry [0:10:37]: Not a not a concern there.
Dave [0:10:40]: I just have such a hard time.
Dave [0:10:41]: Like, I don't...
Dave [0:10:42]: My wife likes to tell me she's, like, no.
Dave [0:10:44]: She's like, dave no is a totally acceptable answer, but there's this weird kinda like, social contract of, like...
Dave [0:10:50]: I think it's crazy that someone just because they, like, ask you that you have to take a meeting or, like, give time.
Dave [0:10:57]: To me I've always thought this way, like, time is, like, the most valuable asset that I have.
Dave [0:11:01]: Yes.
Dave [0:11:01]: And I'm fortunate enough to, like, have money now and so I change how I think about time because I quantify, like, I'm really not gonna do that shit.
Dave [0:11:10]: But I felt like this even when I wasn't financially successful.
Dave [0:11:13]: I just felt like, man.
Dave [0:11:14]: I only have an hour out of this hour.
Dave [0:11:16]: Like, I really gonna go have lunch with some guy who really just wants, like, ask questions about me to help his thing.
Dave [0:11:22]: And then my wife is was like, but what about all the people that took meetings with you...
Dave [0:11:25]: I'm like, I I know I know that there's just weird balance, but I never know how to handle those thing.
Dave [0:11:29]: So I'm I'm, I'm I'm glad to hear.
Dave [0:11:31]: I don't know.
Dave [0:11:32]: Like, there's a connection between the podcast podcasting and the copywriting thing too, which is just like, I love storytelling.
Dave [0:11:37]: I love communication, like, amount of people that I was able to meet through hosting and producing a podcast was like this insane cheat code at the time.
Dave [0:11:48]: And then two I think having done so many episodes and interviews, your brain just, like, builds up a repository of of that knowledge.
Dave [0:11:56]: And so I can write a hook for something in, like, a minute because I've done it a lot before.
Dave [0:12:02]: Right?
Dave [0:12:02]: And it's like, or you draw on, like, man, I don't know.
Dave [0:12:05]: I think about this.
Dave [0:12:06]: Sometimes I lay in bed, and I think about this I'm like, over the last ten years, I've probably done this format in hour with somebody.
Dave [0:12:13]: I don't know, maybe five hundred unique individuals.
Dave [0:12:16]: Right?
Dave [0:12:17]: That's why.
Dave [0:12:18]: Like, And that's not even that there's podcast who are doing that every day every week, you know, you got...
Dave [0:12:24]: You look at people that are in, like, the thousands of episodes and so for me, it's just spending in a bunch of different forms mostly about marketing, but think about how that stuff compounds conversational.
Dave [0:12:32]: And then The reason I always have, like, little notebooks and stuff around me is because I'm constantly writing things down because you just never know and everything that we talk about, like I might have just said something.
Dave [0:12:44]: I might have just...
Dave [0:12:45]: People always asked about, like, linkedin content or newsletter or whatever.
Dave [0:12:48]: The more you talk, I'm like, oh, that's actually a funny story.
Dave [0:12:52]: Like, I, like, how I I hate taking meetings.
Dave [0:12:54]: Like, I might write a note on that and then, like, later that becomes, like, a topic that I write for a newsletter.
Dave [0:12:59]: And so I think one of this...
Dave [0:13:01]: One of the skills that I've developed and, like, I think you you have this too is, like, this brain where, like, everything can become marketing and storytelling, you know, content and copy in some way.
Dave [0:13:10]: I think about a little anecdote.
Dave [0:13:12]: My my father lot told me.
Dave [0:13:13]: And so I think it's just kinda always being curious having lots of conversations and then, like, being able to translate that into into writing.
Dave [0:13:20]: That I I enjoy.
Dmitry [0:13:22]: One hundred percent Like, I mean, I one of the questions that I get all the time because, like, I'm out here I'm talking about technology and Ai and a lot of instances and it's like, oh, you're out there, like, pumping note takers and using them and whatever.
Dmitry [0:13:32]: And it's like, yeah.
Dmitry [0:13:32]: I absolutely am, but that doesn't mean the notebook goes away.
Dmitry [0:13:35]: Because what the note taker doesn't capture is that nuance.
Dmitry [0:13:39]: Right?
Dmitry [0:13:39]: It doesn't capture the random thoughts that you have in back your mind when someone says something because it can't possibly knows know those things.
Dave [0:13:45]: Well, there's also something like, yesterday even just now before this yesterday, I had an hour long conversation with with my lawyer, and there was a call recorder, obviously, but the whole time during the call, I'm taking notes, and I have the date There's a good chance.
Dave [0:14:05]: I don't ever re...
Dave [0:14:05]: I don't ever go back to this.
Dmitry [0:14:07]: Right.
Dmitry [0:14:07]: I
Dave [0:14:09]: think there's something there has to be some way that we're physically wired.
Dave [0:14:11]: We're, like, because I wrote down notes during the call, my brain is, like, organizing information in a certain way.
Dave [0:14:17]: And I think that this dramatically increases the chances that I can recall what I said.
Dave [0:14:23]: And so I try to, like, just doodle and take little notes.
Dave [0:14:26]: And then, like, my writing is shit.
Dave [0:14:27]: Like, you can't read it.
Dave [0:14:28]: It's terrible handwriting, but I know what it says, and I can go through this conversation that I have my lawyer yesterday, and I I know, like, okay.
Dave [0:14:35]: Here roughly the three points and this was actually a thing for me early in my career where, like, I was a religious note taker.
Dave [0:14:41]: And I saw a clip for Mark Andre on this recently and he's like, A lot of times the person who takes notes in the room is the one with the power.
Dave [0:14:48]: And I remember being, like, a more junior person in a bunch of these meetings, and you ever...
Dave [0:14:52]: You you remember this from, like, earlier in your career.
Dave [0:14:53]: Like, you get invited this big meeting.
Dave [0:14:55]: And you normally really have shit to say to contribute.
Dmitry [0:14:59]: Exactly for.
Dave [0:14:59]: You just kinda there you just, like moving around that.
Dave [0:15:01]: Well, dude I took like, religious notes.
Dave [0:15:03]: I took so many notes.
Dave [0:15:04]: I have notebooks and I have an evernote note filled with notes and I I gotta feel like that has compounded over time and is a skill.
Dave [0:15:11]: And I really want heard I also want...
Dave [0:15:13]: I love technology and all this stuff, but I want my kids to see me reading physical books and writing things down.
Dave [0:15:18]: I think there's just...
Dave [0:15:19]: There's a lost art that I'm worried about losing
Dmitry [0:15:22]: there.
Dmitry [0:15:22]: So...
Dmitry [0:15:22]: I mean, that's like, I don't wanna get sidetracked.
Dmitry [0:15:24]: And we want jump into the process and saying, but,
Dave [0:15:27]: I mean, have you noticed I've been...
Dave [0:15:28]: This is my job in side tracking us since...
Dmitry [0:15:30]: You've been doing a great job.
Dmitry [0:15:31]: This is all interesting stuff.
Dmitry [0:15:32]: At least to me and, like, Selfish officially, like, who cares about everyone else.
Dmitry [0:15:35]: Right?
Dmitry [0:15:36]: But...
Dmitry [0:15:36]: No.
Dmitry [0:15:36]: I...
Dmitry [0:15:37]: At some point once went digital on my reading.
Dmitry [0:15:40]: Like, I'm analog in most things in life, but for whatever reason digital is the way I.
Dave [0:15:45]: Well, the kindle...
Dave [0:15:46]: My wife and I were just talking about this.
Dave [0:15:47]: The Kindle is the supreme reading device because you can lie on your side.
Dave [0:15:51]: You can lie like this whatever A book is not the best
Dmitry [0:15:55]: But you have a million books as well where it's just like, you know, you go on on a trip or something.
Dmitry [0:16:00]: Like, we went on a family trip a couple of weeks ago.
Dmitry [0:16:02]: And like,
Dave [0:16:03]: yeah I I'm just logging
Dmitry [0:16:04]: sick exactly, like, especially, you know, I mean, you you get it, like, you're you're a father of young kids and every, you know, god forbid, they read one book that's, you know, you have to read ten books at any given time.
Dave [0:16:14]: So like,
Dmitry [0:16:15]: you know, having having that collection, all in one place is great.
Dmitry [0:16:18]: But at the same time, it's also, like, I'm yelling at my kids to get off screens and they're, like, but you're on and it's like But I'm reading a book or, like, like how how are they gonna know that I'm not just
Dave [0:16:26]: I know.
Dave [0:16:26]: And my daughter my daughter really wants like...
Dave [0:16:28]: She crush books.
Dave [0:16:29]: She's a v reader, and she wants a kindle.
Dave [0:16:31]: And for some reason, I don't wanna get her a kindle because it's like a screen, but I I don't know.
Dave [0:16:35]: It's a weird thing.
Dmitry [0:16:37]: You know, we'll we'll we'll talk parenting on the next one.
Dmitry [0:16:39]: I'm the next what's your process.
Dmitry [0:16:40]: But
Dave [0:16:42]: what's your?
Dave [0:16:42]: Oh, what's your process parenting edition, That's that...
Dave [0:16:45]: That's a good sub brand.
Dmitry [0:16:46]: I don't...
Dmitry [0:16:46]: Like, I had a great...
Dmitry [0:16:47]: And it's funny because, like, you know, I think you you bring up copywriting is really interesting because Eddie was on the show in season one, Eddie Sc.
Dmitry [0:16:55]: We also delved into father hood in a lot of ways in that conversation.
Dmitry [0:16:59]: And I wonder if there's...
Dmitry [0:17:00]: You know, we'll we'll find out at the end of this thing, but I wonder if there's some sort of, like, through lion or or Just continuity between, like, how thoughtful you have to be as a copywriter even with that muscle memory and what it's like within parenthood or, like, some level of increased responsibility.
Dmitry [0:17:16]: I feel like there's something there because, like, it just came up naturally in both conversations and we're just getting started.
Dmitry [0:17:24]: So...
Dmitry [0:17:24]: Alright.
Dmitry [0:17:25]: Let's talk about world class copyright.
Dmitry [0:17:27]: Because I think you're a great shit talker.
Dmitry [0:17:30]: I do think you're really good at getting your point across.
Dmitry [0:17:32]: How do you start?
Dmitry [0:17:34]: Like, when you're when you're thinking, like, I need to write something down, which is a very broad and vague introduction to this.
Dmitry [0:17:40]: Like, what what crosses your mind?
Dave [0:17:44]: Well, I think first it depends on what I'm writing.
Dave [0:17:46]: If I were working on, say a landing page for a new product launch or an event that we're doing.
Dave [0:17:54]: My first step would almost always be to go and find at least one, maybe two or three examples of events landing pages that I think are good.
Dave [0:18:05]: This is like the hack for maybe anything ever.
Dave [0:18:09]: Humans, the world has been around for fourteen billion years or something like that.
Dave [0:18:14]: I don't
Dmitry [0:18:14]: know.
Dmitry [0:18:14]: I wasn't there.
Dmitry [0:18:15]: I don't remember.
Dave [0:18:16]: That's what I wasn't there either.
Dave [0:18:17]: Some version of me was, that's what it said in Sapiens.
Dave [0:18:19]: And humans...
Dave [0:18:21]: It's like, it's it's crazy if you actually think about the life's...
Dave [0:18:24]: Like, how long the world has been around and then, like, how humans we really only live for tiny truck.
Dave [0:18:29]: Of it.
Dave [0:18:30]: Yeah.
Dave [0:18:30]: A tiny fraction of that.
Dave [0:18:31]: But but in the day to day, you know, social media cycle, everything feels brand new and it's like, actually know a lot of this stuff has already happened before.
Dave [0:18:40]: And success leaves clues and most of us, you know, we're we're all we're all just copying each other in some form or not.
Dave [0:18:49]: There are very, very, very few, like, completely brand new original zero.
Dave [0:18:54]: I, you know, And so sometimes, I'm feeling like, super juice up, and I feel like I can just, like, free form write something, and I know I have this...
Dave [0:19:02]: You know, sometimes, like, magic does happen.
Dave [0:19:03]: Like, that is the creative process as you know.
Dave [0:19:06]: You can be stuck on something and, like, bam, you're just, like, in the wrong plea, your kids screaming at you, but you're like, I got this idea and I gotta go write it down, and I will literally just, like, you know, get out my notebook, and I'll just draw, like, the landing page.
Dave [0:19:19]: And I'll just, like, write what the headline is and kinda draw what the body should be, and then I'll like, save that and I'll go back later.
Dave [0:19:24]: That's rare.
Dave [0:19:25]: You can't rely on that always happening.
Dave [0:19:27]: It's like having the best day ever it doesn't happen.
Dave [0:19:30]: So usually, it starts with finding something else and finding inspiration and finding someone who's done a good job of this here before, And I will start with that, and I usually don't ever write zero to one.
Dave [0:19:41]: Right now, we're, like, as an example, we're working really hard on trying to improve our newsletter with Exit Five.
Dave [0:19:46]: And so that went...
Dave [0:19:48]: That meant...
Dave [0:19:48]: Like, I've spent the last week ob over.
Dave [0:19:50]: Morning brew ob over Lenny newsletter and just really trying to understand, like, what is it that people love about those things and how can we apply them to that?
Dave [0:19:59]: So that's that's typically where I'll start just to get a rough idea of, like, what's the what's the kind of layout?
Dave [0:20:05]: And then for me, it always starts with the headline or the hook, And I say headline or hook because I think they can be used interchangeably, like, the headline doesn't necessarily mean, like, three pit lines like a tag, you know, on the Hubspot home homepage.
Dave [0:20:21]: It's more just like, what's the general thing that we're trying to convey here?
Dave [0:20:25]: And then an another thing that really matters a lot is naming things.
Dave [0:20:30]: If you name something, it's something just sticks with people in a different way.
Dave [0:20:36]: Like, you saying the b to b Mecca is is pretty funny.
Dave [0:20:39]: Is pretty silly.
Dave [0:20:40]: And so if we're working on something we always like, is this something that could be named?
Dave [0:20:44]: Like, does this need to be named and so we're working on a new event.
Dave [0:20:46]: Like, we have dry...
Dave [0:20:47]: Like, we came up the name drive for our event.
Dave [0:20:49]: And I didn't really love the name at all.
Dave [0:20:52]: I just, like, can't whatever.
Dave [0:20:53]: Drive.
Dave [0:20:53]: It's cool.
Dave [0:20:54]: It's not like the craziest name ever, but it's kinda like naming your kid.
Dave [0:20:57]: My son Sam was born.
Dave [0:20:58]: And I was like Sam Ge, Sam.
Dave [0:21:00]: So weird to say.
Dave [0:21:03]: Right?
Dave [0:21:03]: You're like, who the fuck is Sam Ge.
Dmitry [0:21:06]: But now he's he's Sam.
Dave [0:21:07]: Now he's that's my dude.
Dave [0:21:08]: Of course, that is Sam.
Dave [0:21:09]: That is...
Dave [0:21:10]: There are Sam Ism.
Dave [0:21:11]: There are Sam things.
Dave [0:21:13]: And I think the same is true with, like, naming things.
Dave [0:21:15]: And so we kinda just...
Dave [0:21:16]: We pick this idea.
Dave [0:21:17]: So we had to name Drive.
Dave [0:21:18]: But Okay.
Dave [0:21:19]: Now I got the name.
Dave [0:21:20]: I got the example.
Dave [0:21:21]: I got the concept.
Dave [0:21:22]: Now I can kinda go and start to start to write this thing a little bit.
Dave [0:21:26]: And almost like, begin begin with the end in mind.
Dave [0:21:29]: There's a great book called the presentation secrets of Steve jobs by this guy Car Gallo.
Dave [0:21:34]: And he broke down, like, how Steve jobs was such a compelling public speaker and just communicator general.
Dave [0:21:40]: And the whole secret from the Apple stuff was, like, they'd almost always start with, like, what's the sound bite?
Dave [0:21:45]: We're launching the new iphone, but, like, what's the sound byte that we want?
Dave [0:21:49]: Like, wired to write about?
Dave [0:21:51]: And then it's, like, let's say that?
Dave [0:21:52]: And then, like, let's work backwards from that?
Dave [0:21:54]: And so, like, with drive.
Dave [0:21:55]: It's, like, what do we want people to say that it's...
Dave [0:21:58]: You know, what what would be successful?
Dave [0:22:00]: What how do we want people to talk about this?
Dave [0:22:01]: And then, like, let's make that thing.
Dave [0:22:03]: I think we can you can make that a reality.
Dmitry [0:22:06]: Well, what What I love about this that goes counter to pretty much every piece of advice you ever get is, like, it's always, you know, write the subject last.
Dmitry [0:22:13]: You know, write the email or whatever it is and then come back and write the subject line.
Dmitry [0:22:17]: And you're just, like, no.
Dmitry [0:22:18]: I'm absolutely getting in your face right off the bat, and then filling it out.
Dmitry [0:22:22]: And, like I
Dave [0:22:23]: actually, I had this conversation yesterday.
Dave [0:22:25]: So Aaron is on our team, and she she does content for us and she said, can I ask you a question?
Dave [0:22:30]: She said, do you...
Dave [0:22:32]: And I, like, I edit and and, like, approve all the emails and newsletters so whatever that go out.
Dave [0:22:38]: And so they sent me a draft and I look at it, I get the tweak and edit things and whatever.
Dave [0:22:43]: And every time I rewrite the subject line, delete it and write it.
Dave [0:22:48]: I don't, like, just softly edit it I guess like, I don't like that.
Dave [0:22:50]: I change it.
Dave [0:22:51]: Every time.
Dave [0:22:51]: Without fail.
Dave [0:22:52]: There's never been one I haven't re rewritten.
Dave [0:22:53]: And she's like, she, do you want me to just, like, you always delete it.
Dave [0:22:58]: Should I just not write a subject line.
Dave [0:23:00]: And I said, no.
Dave [0:23:01]: Actually, no.
Dave [0:23:02]: Because I like the...
Dave [0:23:03]: It helps me get to where it should be quicker.
Dave [0:23:05]: Like, I like that something is there, then I can...
Dave [0:23:08]: My brain instantly goes, like, no, it's not that.
Dave [0:23:11]: It's this.
Dave [0:23:11]: First if it was blank, then I have to be like, what is it?
Dave [0:23:14]: And similar to, like, the drive naming example, like, actually, part of, like, the what your process thing is like, it's never gonna be the first idea that comes out of you.
Dave [0:23:24]: Right.
Dmitry [0:23:25]: You have to...
Dmitry [0:23:26]: It's editing.
Dave [0:23:28]: You have to edit.
Dave [0:23:28]: So it's like I I don't know who said it, but there's a quote that I say all the time which is, like, great writing is actually just great...
Dave [0:23:34]: It's great writing is it's great editing, which is, like, let me write.
Dave [0:23:37]: Let me try to write out, like, five or ten subject lines figure out the ones that I like.
Dave [0:23:42]: And this is actually where tools like Chat Are great.
Dave [0:23:45]: I can say here's the concept.
Dave [0:23:46]: Let's come up with fifteen variations of this subject line, and then I can, like, take this word from this one, oh, I like this.
Dave [0:23:53]: I wouldn't have started that one here.
Dave [0:23:54]: And then like, I ended I end up building my own.
Dave [0:23:57]: It's like, that's what I love.
Dave [0:23:58]: I don't think I'm a very, like, beautiful writer.
Dave [0:24:01]: I think I'm really good at, like, piecing things together, and that...
Dave [0:24:06]: That's what it becomes.
Dave [0:24:07]: You know?
Dmitry [0:24:08]: Well, so the...
Dmitry [0:24:08]: That's the other thing that, like, I'm...
Dmitry [0:24:10]: I've I've taken away from the past, like, a few minutes of this where, like, you...
Dmitry [0:24:14]: You know, you've talked about Morning B.
Dmitry [0:24:16]: You've talked about Lenny In the news a newsletter, you talked about the jobs book you talked earlier about how you're a v read.
Dmitry [0:24:21]: Like, you're constantly, it seems like consuming content.
Dmitry [0:24:24]: There...
Dmitry [0:24:25]: There's gotta be something to that too where it's just, like, you are...
Dmitry [0:24:29]: You know, you're picking the nuggets from each of these things that are valuable for you, but then also, I imagine thinking, like, you know what I would have done this differently or I would have approach this in a in a different kind of way, and that also, like, kicks things off for you.
Dmitry [0:24:41]: That's part of like, that almost
Dave [0:24:44]: inspiration mask.
Dave [0:24:44]: Constantly, everything...
Dave [0:24:45]: Every...
Dave [0:24:46]: It it must be annoying as hell to, like, work with me sometimes because I'm, like, look at this thumbnail, sending this email.
Dave [0:24:52]: Check out this thing.
Dave [0:24:53]: Send a picture from the grocery door.
Dave [0:24:55]: Like, look at this, but that's just how my brain works, and I think that helps me with with writing because it's like, I don't believe in writer.
Dave [0:25:05]: I I think I don't really think writer's block exists.
Dave [0:25:07]: I think you just have to, like, force yourself to just get something going, and it's like, it's like working out.
Dave [0:25:12]: It's like running.
Dave [0:25:13]: Right?
Dave [0:25:13]: It's like, yeah.
Dmitry [0:25:14]: You can get the wheel turning and once...
Dmitry [0:25:16]: Churning turning.
Dave [0:25:17]: Once you run that first mile and you got a little sweat going and you're like, alright.
Dave [0:25:20]: I got this.
Dave [0:25:21]: Like, this feels good now, that's where we wanna get to.
Dmitry [0:25:24]: Yeah.
Dmitry [0:25:24]: I can't relate to that one.
Dmitry [0:25:25]: If I run one mile, I'm good.
Dmitry [0:25:27]: Yeah.
Dmitry [0:25:28]: Then I've checked the box.
Dmitry [0:25:29]: I'm happy to I'm happy to stop.
Dmitry [0:25:31]: Alright.
Dave [0:25:32]: I won't...
Dave [0:25:32]: I won't...
Dave [0:25:33]: I have a I
Dmitry [0:25:34]: have a thoughts on that,
Dave [0:25:35]: but I won't fight you on it today.
Dmitry [0:25:36]: Whatever your thoughts are.
Dmitry [0:25:37]: I promise you they are right, and I'm well aware of them, and I'm still not giving
Dave [0:25:40]: you.
Dave [0:25:40]: Okay.
Dmitry [0:25:42]: Right?
Dmitry [0:25:42]: So you've figured out what you're writing, you've been inspired.
Dmitry [0:25:47]: What happens asked?
Dave [0:25:49]: I usually just write it, just just go, just until I hit a stopping point, and I try to get as much of it down on paper as possible.
Dave [0:25:57]: And then I will go back and edit and really think about something that drives me nuts with writing.
Dave [0:26:06]: And again, people that might listen this, you might read my writing and think it sucks.
Dave [0:26:10]: I'm just talking about, like, my personal stuff.
Dave [0:26:12]: I think formatting is really an underrated part of writing.
Dave [0:26:16]: Yes.
Dave [0:26:17]: And so, like, you know, we we run our business on Slack, like, a lot of people do.
Dave [0:26:21]: And I think it's very easy in Slack.
Dave [0:26:23]: You just, like, you just wrote a lot.
Dave [0:26:25]: And I'm like, dude no one's gonna read that.
Dave [0:26:27]: Like, getting someone to read it.
Dave [0:26:30]: Like, the dish has to be appealing.
Dave [0:26:31]: You know, if it looks like a bunch of shit, you're like, trust me.
Dave [0:26:35]: This is like the best thing you're ever gonna eat.
Dave [0:26:37]: You're never gonna get
Dmitry [0:26:38]: eat with your eyes.
Dave [0:26:39]: You your...
Dave [0:26:39]: That the end You eat with there that oh, wanna steal that, eat with your eyes.
Dave [0:26:42]: That's the copywriting technique Great?
Dave [0:26:44]: So then I'm, like, I wanna get all the thoughts out, and then I wanna, like...
Dave [0:26:49]: Then I wanna reorganize it, Re restructure it to be, like, clear head section, thing one.
Dave [0:26:55]: Thing two, thing three.
Dave [0:26:57]: Be I really like guard rails for writing too because I think it's like very easy to just kinda like, go off the deep end and I really like grouping things, you know, if if we can say the three...
Dave [0:27:09]: This product has three core benefits.
Dave [0:27:11]: So here are the five reasons you should use Exit Five or whatever.
Dave [0:27:14]: Like, I like little tricks like that to give myself guard rails to, like, frame things up.
Dave [0:27:19]: I, you know, used to be on the...
Dave [0:27:21]: Used to live in the website world.
Dave [0:27:22]: I hate working on websites because it's like the founder and the product team and the marketing.
Dave [0:27:27]: It's like, and...
Dave [0:27:28]: This this is infinitely possible.
Dave [0:27:30]: We...
Dave [0:27:31]: Know it's not.
Dave [0:27:31]: Let's like, here's the homepage.
Dave [0:27:33]: It's gonna have these sections like, what can we put in these buckets.
Dave [0:27:36]: I think that's really useful from a from a writing standpoint.
Dave [0:27:39]: And then I got this from.
Dave [0:27:41]: This is not groundbreaking.
Dave [0:27:42]: I got it from that Car gallo a presentation secrets of Steve Jobs thing, but it's always, like, tell us like, story.
Dave [0:27:49]: Problem, solution, call to action is almost always works.
Dave [0:27:55]: Yeah.
Dave [0:27:57]: Tell a story to get someone in to hook them in.
Dave [0:28:00]: Right?
Dave [0:28:01]: Mh.
Dave [0:28:01]: Then present the problem.
Dave [0:28:03]: Like, introduce some type of conflict and say, but there's a problem.
Dave [0:28:07]: Right?
Dave [0:28:07]: Then show the solution, talk about the solution, how you solve that.
Dave [0:28:11]: Back it up with examples because humans we operate in stories and nuggets and clear examples, especially me I'm like, wait.
Dave [0:28:19]: What do you mean?
Dave [0:28:19]: Oh, it's like that.
Dave [0:28:20]: Okay.
Dave [0:28:20]: Got it.
Dave [0:28:21]: And then, you know, have your have your ask or or call to action.
Dave [0:28:25]: The thing that drives me nuts with writing is, like, too many competing Cta.
Dmitry [0:28:31]: Well, that's going back to your your home page example.
Dmitry [0:28:33]: That's what ends up happen.
Dmitry [0:28:34]: Right?
Dmitry [0:28:35]: Where it's just like, oh, we can't we can't offend this person or this team and, like, they've been working so hard.
Dmitry [0:28:40]: We've gotta put whatever they've done on the home.
Dmitry [0:28:42]: It's like...
Dmitry [0:28:42]: But is that what we wanna be known for That what we want a key takeaway to be.
Dmitry [0:28:46]: Right?
Dave [0:28:48]: I use this quote, there's this this guy Ryan Dice gifted to me these books a couple years ago, the wizard of ads by Roy was guy Roy Williams.
Dave [0:28:54]: And I used this quote all the time, but, like, fifty percent of people don't understand what it means.
Dave [0:29:00]: I'll say, what...
Dave [0:29:01]: Let me let me In the book, he says the risk of insult is the price of clarity.
Dmitry [0:29:07]: Risk of insult is the price of clarity.
Dmitry [0:29:09]: I love that.
Dave [0:29:10]: Do you does that...
Dave [0:29:11]: Do you understand what that means though?
Dmitry [0:29:12]: Yeah.
Dmitry [0:29:12]: Like, in in speaking the truth, you're probably gonna piss some people off.
Dave [0:29:16]: So in your website example, like, the risk of insult, the risk of the Vp of partnerships not being happy that, like, her thing wasn't listed on the website and the Vp of product, you know, the head of sales, the our sales guy at Drift used saw always be.
Dave [0:29:28]: Why don't we talk about this?
Dave [0:29:29]: At a Okay.
Dave [0:29:31]: I'm okay with that.
Dave [0:29:32]: The the result though is gonna be, like, people are actually gonna get go to our website and understand and take the next step.
Dave [0:29:37]: I think so much of marketing and communication is, like, actually, you know what?
Dave [0:29:42]: The goal is not to get everyone to know everything your product can do and thing can do in this moment?
Dave [0:29:48]: It's just this constant cycle of, like, next step, next step, Next step.
Dave [0:29:51]: Oh, interesting.
Dave [0:29:52]: Cool.
Dave [0:29:52]: Did I convey the message in the homepage?
Dave [0:29:55]: Like, do you think our brand is credible.
Dave [0:29:56]: Do we have proof we have examples?
Dave [0:29:58]: Did do you roughly understand what we do?
Dave [0:29:59]: Yes, I'd like to learn more.
Dave [0:30:01]: Okay.
Dave [0:30:01]: Cool.
Dave [0:30:01]: Now I'm gonna tell you the next thing in the next...
Dave [0:30:04]: You know, with that context.
Dave [0:30:05]: And so I was editing an email you know, earlier this week, and there were, like, five different call actions in there.
Dave [0:30:12]: It's like, link out to our podcast.
Dave [0:30:15]: Link out to this thing.
Dave [0:30:16]: Link out to this thing.
Dave [0:30:17]: I'm like, think let's begin with the end of mind.
Dave [0:30:20]: Go to the...
Dave [0:30:20]: Be the recipient of this email.
Dave [0:30:23]: I'm checking my email after I got off my call.
Dave [0:30:26]: I got fifty six new messages.
Dave [0:30:28]: Right?
Dave [0:30:29]: Does my brain have the time, like, parse all of that and figure out what's important?
Dave [0:30:32]: Oh, no.
Dave [0:30:33]: This is this is an invite to a webinar that we're doing.
Dave [0:30:35]: Great.
Dave [0:30:36]: There should be one call to action.
Dave [0:30:39]: There should be one call to action in this email and that should be to register for this webinar.
Dave [0:30:42]: Period.
Dave [0:30:43]: If you wanna repeat the same link multiple times, which I also do, which I think is important.
Dave [0:30:47]: I'll put the link in the first or second line.
Dave [0:30:50]: I'll put the link again at the bottom, same exact link.
Dave [0:30:53]: I'll bold it underline whatever.
Dave [0:30:54]: That's the goal.
Dave [0:30:56]: And then even just to give you a specific example on this because I know people nerd out on this.
Dave [0:31:00]: I hate when people do, like, sentence and then, like, one more one...
Dave [0:31:05]: You know, it's like, click here.
Dave [0:31:07]: And then, like, the only thing that's hyperlink is here, I want the whole real estate.
Dave [0:31:11]: I will link that whole entire sentence and make it bold because I'm like, oh, the link is here.
Dave [0:31:16]: You're not you're gonna read the whole thing and then click it.
Dave [0:31:18]: But if it just the back to, like, the formatting really matters.
Dave [0:31:21]: Right?
Dmitry [0:31:23]: Yeah.
Dmitry [0:31:23]: I love that because whether it's this like framework from from Car Gallo or just as you're thinking about the the homepage example, like, you know, I know we're jumping around and doing a couple different things here, But, like, a lot of what you're talking about seems like it's focus.
Dmitry [0:31:39]: You know, it's, like, have a point, you know, get people to where you want to get them as opposed to just, like, throw a bunch of stuff in into the wild and and and hope it sticks.
Dmitry [0:31:50]: I'm, like, that be with the subject line that you're editing, whether that be with the single Cta, all with the the many...
Dmitry [0:31:56]: I guess, we would call that a long tail keyword to a certain extent.
Dmitry [0:31:59]: Right?
Dmitry [0:32:00]: If it's a link and it goes out to something Yeah at some point.
Dmitry [0:32:02]: I'm clearly an Seo expert.
Dmitry [0:32:04]: But, just keep it
Dave [0:32:06]: keep it...
Dave [0:32:06]: Yeah.
Dave [0:32:06]: Keep things simple.
Dave [0:32:07]: Like, the let let's let's be clear.
Dave [0:32:09]: Let's be direct.
Dave [0:32:10]: I mean, there's certain times in life where, yeah, There's Nuance and people wanna have all knowledge and get more information, but I think for the...
Dave [0:32:17]: Sake of this discussion?
Dave [0:32:18]: It's less as more.
Dmitry [0:32:21]: I'm with you one hundred percent and, you know, and going back to, like, the the direct process here.
Dmitry [0:32:25]: Right?
Dmitry [0:32:25]: You you've written it, You formatted it.
Dmitry [0:32:28]: Do you just hit post or send or is there any kind of, like, secondary editing process.
Dmitry [0:32:34]: We're thinking process.
Dave [0:32:37]: I think everything kinda goes into my head and it's like, what's the...
Dave [0:32:39]: What is...
Dave [0:32:40]: What are we working on and, like, what's the stakes of that thing?
Dave [0:32:43]: And so something that we're doing this new event in March and an event in Arizona, this five marketing leadership retreat.
Dave [0:32:50]: Actually tell you the url just so you can...
Dave [0:32:53]: Just so people can see it.
Dave [0:32:55]: Because I think it's a good page, it's x five dot com slash retreat.
Dave [0:32:57]: This was a page that we spend a lot of time on.
Dave [0:33:00]: Sweat every word because this is a new event with the audience is, like, Cmos doing like, a hundred million in revenue.
Dave [0:33:09]: There's a personal letter for me.
Dave [0:33:11]: I even have at the bottom.
Dave [0:33:12]: Like, hey I really wrote this, then, like, chat That my signature, things like that.
Dave [0:33:18]: That was, like, the goal is not to rush this out.
Dave [0:33:20]: The goal is like to get this right.
Dave [0:33:21]: And so there's multiple rounds of feedback.
Dave [0:33:23]: And so, like, we kick that back and forth a lot.
Dave [0:33:25]: But then there's something like Linkedin.
Dave [0:33:27]: I can post on Linkedin every day.
Dave [0:33:29]: And so, like, I sometimes I just will literally...
Dave [0:33:31]: Today I wrote my post at the end of my work.
Dave [0:33:34]: I was just was walking on the treadmill for for ten minutes, and I was like, I don't have a post for today, and I just fired something off.
Dave [0:33:40]: Like, that one don't care there's typos.
Dave [0:33:43]: There's whatever somebody will call it out and I'll fix it later, like, the the stakes are lower on that one.
Dave [0:33:47]: And so I think the stakes matter a little bit less.
Dave [0:33:50]: Something like our email.
Dave [0:33:51]: I love I love writing with deadlines.
Dave [0:33:53]: I think we do this kinda...
Dave [0:33:55]: It's very easy as a creative and creator to just, like, I hate when there's...
Dave [0:34:00]: I think time boxing can really be your friend.
Dave [0:34:03]: And so it's like, yeah.
Dave [0:34:04]: Our newsletter goes out every Tuesday.
Dave [0:34:06]: Every Thursday, there are very clear deadlines for, like, when I have to have that copy in and, like, I have to ship this.
Dave [0:34:11]: Like, the homework is due tomorrow, and, like, it is what it is.
Dave [0:34:15]: It's already...
Dave [0:34:15]: The grade has already been written.
Dmitry [0:34:17]: Does the newsletter go out if you don't see it?
Dmitry [0:34:19]: No.
Dmitry [0:34:20]: Okay.
Dmitry [0:34:20]: So now this this brings us to an interesting place.
Dmitry [0:34:23]: Because, you know, I know, we we've, you know, you...
Dmitry [0:34:25]: We've been joking about founder mode for for a long time online and whatnot, which I'm a huge fan of.
Dmitry [0:34:32]: As the founder, you do get to make some of these calls.
Dmitry [0:34:35]: Right?
Dave [0:34:36]: Well, Yes.
Dave [0:34:36]: But like, let's let's, like level set...
Dave [0:34:39]: Let's give people the context of, like, we are a media company.
Dave [0:34:41]: The newsletter is a product for us.
Dave [0:34:43]: It generates revenue.
Dave [0:34:44]: It has, you know, thousands of subscribers.
Dave [0:34:46]: We sell sponsors.
Dave [0:34:48]: That is the product.
Dmitry [0:34:49]: Right?
Dmitry [0:34:49]: Matters.
Dave [0:34:50]: Verse, like, if I was the founder of, like, a Saas company, like, what I need to sweat every single email.
Dave [0:34:55]: I mean, maybe I should.
Dave [0:34:56]: Maybe that is...
Dave [0:34:56]: Maybe that's the beginning of this episode, actually, which is, like, I think that is my unique skill, like, every founder has a an angle a thing, and it's like, this is an area where I can provide unique value and have expertise in And so like I think that's for our business, like, that's where I should be spending my time.
Dave [0:35:14]: Now it's changed a lot.
Dave [0:35:16]: I'm not I'm not...
Dave [0:35:17]: I don't take it from zero to one.
Dave [0:35:19]: Like, we have we have writers.
Dave [0:35:21]: We have a team, like, I'm getting it towards the end of the line.
Dave [0:35:24]: Yeah.
Dave [0:35:25]: But I'm going in and making changes and, like, putting my, you know, fingerprints all over it.
Dmitry [0:35:31]: Are you and track and field is not something I know intimately.
Dmitry [0:35:34]: So let's obviously go with that example.
Dmitry [0:35:36]: But like love.
Dmitry [0:35:37]: Like, are you the the last one in the relay?
Dmitry [0:35:40]: Like, getting the baton and crossing the line?
Dave [0:35:42]: Yeah.
Dave [0:35:42]: Yeah.
Dave [0:35:43]: Yeah.
Dave [0:35:43]: But, yes.
Dave [0:35:44]: But there's somebody at the end who's gonna, like, I also say, like, I kinda go in and I kinda do the found...
Dave [0:35:50]: I kinda do, like, the Tasmania devil thing on it.
Dave [0:35:53]: And then someone else goes back in and is like, let's clean up this section.
Dave [0:35:59]: Let's tighten this let's good, like, like, like, good.
Dave [0:36:02]: I don't I need to see it again.
Dave [0:36:03]: I'm like, I need to see it again after this, but, like, here's my changes.
Dave [0:36:06]: Like I changed this?
Dave [0:36:07]: I rewrote this intro?
Dave [0:36:08]: Like I would say, can we find a better example here and then I...
Dave [0:36:11]: And then I have to be just where we're at now.
Dave [0:36:14]: Like, I just...
Dave [0:36:15]: I have to be good with it.
Dave [0:36:16]: My life would not be possible.
Dave [0:36:17]: It would not be possible to live my life if everyone had to wait around for me to final final bless it.
Dave [0:36:23]: But then also look, it's a newsletter, like, the...
Dave [0:36:26]: Back to, like, how do you decide, like, or when is it done or what's the...
Dave [0:36:29]: Like, what's your process?
Dave [0:36:31]: Like, it's...
Dave [0:36:31]: It it goes out weekly.
Dave [0:36:32]: Let's have weekly at bats at this thing and let's make it better every week.
Dave [0:36:36]: And so, the message that I try to share with our team is, like, I'm gonna edit it.
Dave [0:36:41]: I'm gonna give you feedback.
Dave [0:36:42]: I'm also gonna give feedback on it after it's gone out, and that's not to criticize it.
Dave [0:36:46]: It's just like, let's...
Dave [0:36:47]: We're looking at it after, and it's like, this kinda came off weird.
Dave [0:36:50]: This showed up weird.
Dave [0:36:51]: Like, let's tweak it for next time.
Dave [0:36:53]: I think I believe that, like, quality matters, but I think a lot of times as marketers and creators, like, we let quality be this like, excuse to not ship stuff.
Dmitry [0:37:05]: Yep.
Dmitry [0:37:05]: What I really love about this point here is, like, and especially within the realm of, like, consider the stakes is even though something is important and matters and affects the bottom line, you can still experiment.
Dmitry [0:37:17]: Right?
Dmitry [0:37:18]: And like, I'll I'll see it within the newsletter from like, oh, you know, well, one time.
Dmitry [0:37:22]: It's a list.
Dmitry [0:37:22]: One time.
Dmitry [0:37:23]: It's a it's a thought piece from you one time.
Dmitry [0:37:25]: It's, you know, something...
Dmitry [0:37:26]: It's it's takeaways from from a webinar or that.
Dmitry [0:37:29]: So, like, you're you're playing around with the format to a certain extent and learning from it, which I think is great.
Dmitry [0:37:34]: Because too many...
Dmitry [0:37:35]: I, you know, I've seen this throughout my career.
Dmitry [0:37:38]: I know you have as well where it's, like, too many teams will sit there and wait until it's perfect.
Dmitry [0:37:43]: We we can't let this out the door until it's the greatest version Yeah.
Dmitry [0:37:47]: Of whatever it can be.
Dmitry [0:37:48]: And then it's, like, one that's not a real thing.
Dave [0:37:52]: It's not a real thing.
Dave [0:37:52]: Dude Let me...
Dave [0:37:53]: The reason why we're okay with this though is, like, we've now put a We we've shipped enough things and done enough things that, like, actually multiple times.
Dave [0:38:01]: I'm like, I don't think this is our best one...
Dave [0:38:04]: I don't think this is our best thing.
Dave [0:38:05]: And we do it, and people love it.
Dave [0:38:08]: And I'm wrong.
Dave [0:38:09]: And on the flip side of that, we've had many things that I'm, like, this is it.
Dave [0:38:14]: I spent so much time on this.
Dave [0:38:15]: This is amazing.
Dave [0:38:16]: This video to and it flops.
Dmitry [0:38:19]: Yeah.
Dmitry [0:38:19]: Well, there's gotta be a V two.
Dmitry [0:38:21]: Like, there's always a there's this joke in, like, engineering and, like, development or it's just, like, you know, we'll we'll come back to it in V two, and there's never a V two because, you know, you just move on to whatever the next thing is.
Dmitry [0:38:33]: Yep.
Dmitry [0:38:33]: Here's v thousand
Dave [0:38:35]: As marketers and creators today and, like, we're we are living in an area where, like, you can get some type of feedback or signal on your work, like, almost instantly.
Dave [0:38:44]: You don't have to wait for, like, you know, it's not like Don Draper, like, selling, like, Heinz ketchup up, and like, if the wait for, like, a quarter worth of, like, sales data to come in on Hines ketchup up to know if this campaign was successful or not.
Dave [0:38:56]: It's like, oh, did I make...
Dave [0:38:58]: That joke on Linkedin or, like, in our email and like, did people respond to it and, like, use that, Oh, man, When I use that example, everyone got it.
Dave [0:39:07]: That's amazing.
Dave [0:39:08]: That's an amazing signal that I can now take to, like, go and create the next version of it.
Dmitry [0:39:14]: Love that.
Dmitry [0:39:14]: That's that's that's really cool.
Dmitry [0:39:15]: And I think that's, like, I would love for any...
Dmitry [0:39:18]: Anyone watching this listening this to, like, take...
Dmitry [0:39:22]: That's, like, in my mind, the biggest takeaway where it's like, you will always get more at bats.
Dmitry [0:39:25]: Take this seriously this is important this matters, but, like, it's okay.
Dmitry [0:39:29]: It's okay to, you know, walk find out.
Dave [0:39:32]: It's just like, how many...
Dave [0:39:33]: I don't know, Like, endless sweating about, like, what the homepage headline should be and it's, like, let's just if we don't like it, Let's just change it.
Dave [0:39:40]: If we get...
Dave [0:39:41]: If we get data that says it's not working,
Dmitry [0:39:44]: but it's etched in stone, we can't, you know, it's it's impossible to to change.
Dmitry [0:39:48]: We have to go through the creative queue and we know that's a that's a pain.
Dmitry [0:39:52]: So we're just gonna leave it.
Dmitry [0:39:54]: This way forever.
Dave [0:39:55]: The create web q.
Dmitry [0:39:59]: Alright.
Dmitry [0:39:59]: So consider the constraints, like, or, like, you know, think about the constraints like, we're the the stakes so My god constraints.
Dmitry [0:40:05]: I'm I'm now, like, I heard creative view you, and I'm just like, in, like, management creative.
Dmitry [0:40:10]: But, like, concerning the stakes is really interesting because this perspective.
Dmitry [0:40:15]: But, like, you know, now as we...
Dmitry [0:40:17]: We we've written it.
Dmitry [0:40:19]: We've added it it, we've gone back to it, like, at that point, is it just learn?
Dmitry [0:40:23]: Is it ship and learn?
Dave [0:40:25]: Yep.
Dave [0:40:25]: Absolutely.
Dave [0:40:26]: Ship it and learn.
Dave [0:40:27]: And so, like, you're...
Dave [0:40:27]: You mentioned just we're using our newsletter as an example, you've seen different formats.
Dave [0:40:31]: You've seen, like, personal notes for me, lists, you know, things about Ai, webinar recap, whatever.
Dave [0:40:36]: Like, It's a game of just constant calibration to understand which thing people like the most and what we should go do more of.
Dave [0:40:44]: And so we've done a bunch, and it's like, you know what?
Dave [0:40:47]: It's funny.
Dave [0:40:48]: We have this newsletter that's about B to b marketing.
Dave [0:40:50]: You know what our highest performing content has been.
Dave [0:40:52]: It's been writing about, like, how people work?
Dave [0:40:55]: How do you manage your work, what's your workflow what hours do you work?
Dave [0:40:58]: Like, how do you...
Dave [0:40:59]: And people love that shit.
Dave [0:41:00]: And so we got more responses in a day to that email than ever?
Dave [0:41:04]: I don't even know the number.
Dave [0:41:06]: I don't have data on I just felt that way.
Dave [0:41:07]: It's some of these things in your business are so obvious.
Dave [0:41:09]: Bam, a lot of people came in our store today.
Dave [0:41:12]: Like, okay.
Dave [0:41:12]: Yeah.
Dave [0:41:13]: Great.
Dave [0:41:13]: Let's just go do more of that.
Dave [0:41:15]: And so now it's like we're trying to intentionally work in more personal stuff.
Dave [0:41:18]: Right?
Dave [0:41:18]: And and it's not it's not scientific, but it's just a gut a gut feeling.
Dave [0:41:22]: And so now we're looking at...
Dave [0:41:24]: Alright, for the next, you know, month's worth of newsletters and in content, Like, let's have...
Dave [0:41:28]: Let's make sure we have one of these and three of these and and one of these and we're gonna keep iterating.
Dmitry [0:41:34]: I was at in event a couple weeks ago, with with Zapier, and someone there...
Dmitry [0:41:38]: At something really interesting, really smart.
Dmitry [0:41:42]: Really, you know, we're all experts in this like space in automation we're workflow and Ai.
Dmitry [0:41:47]: And, like, all we do is create content for one another more or less.
Dmitry [0:41:51]: It's, like, we're we're creating content for the top one two percent.
Dmitry [0:41:54]: When the the ninety eight percent is who demands the actual knowledge.
Dmitry [0:42:00]: And, like, we...
Dmitry [0:42:01]: It doesn't all have to be up here, it can be down here.
Dmitry [0:42:03]: And I think, like, just to that example, Like, people just wanna know what it takes to succeed.
Dmitry [0:42:07]: People wanna know what other folks are doing that they admire that that they respect how they're operating because they're trying to figure it out.
Dmitry [0:42:14]: And it's like, if we start talking about these, like, hyper complex really niche kind of thoughts, ideas workflow systems tools whatever it is every time, we're gonna lose a ton of really great and smart talented people.
Dmitry [0:42:26]: So, like, I think the response that makes a ton of sense because it's literally something that any human being can can learn from and apply to their day to day.
Dmitry [0:42:34]: Mh.
Dmitry [0:42:35]: Like, the one percent, like, they're doing some advanced shit that no one else has ever even thinking about it or that doesn't occur to that.
Dave [0:42:41]: Yeah.
Dave [0:42:41]: Which which is fine.
Dave [0:42:42]: I just would, like, then reframe your thing around that one percent, and we're gonna talk specifically about that use case and we're gonna be just for those people.
Dave [0:42:50]: And we don't really care how big it is.
Dave [0:42:52]: We just wanna focus on that slice.
Dmitry [0:42:54]: Yeah.
Dmitry [0:42:54]: That's a it's a great way to put it.
Dmitry [0:42:56]: So On that note, you know, we've shipped it.
Dmitry [0:42:58]: We've learned.
Dmitry [0:42:59]: We've we've found new inspiration, I imagine.
Dmitry [0:43:01]: But I'm curious where what's next where where can we see your process in action?
Dave [0:43:08]: I think now it's like the stakes so so, like ship fast all this stuff.
Dave [0:43:12]: But to me now, like, the stakes are...
Dave [0:43:14]: The stakes are higher because I think over the last couple years, like, we've built a real...
Dave [0:43:18]: And I'm I'm just only talking about this within the context of, like the thing I'm work.
Dave [0:43:22]: On right now.
Dave [0:43:23]: If I was working at a different company.
Dave [0:43:24]: I would maybe give you different answer.
Dave [0:43:25]: I'm just trying to tell you personally.
Dave [0:43:27]: The stakes are higher and seem real.
Dave [0:43:30]: And so it's like, yeah, sure.
Dave [0:43:31]: Here's an example like, we will be year three of our event.
Dave [0:43:34]: We got more people we're spending more money on that event than we made in the first year of doing business in general, you know, like, it's there's the stakes are high.
Dave [0:43:43]: And I think it's a constant game of raising the bar because like, anything in life, Like, once you do something and have a little bit of results and success than, like, the expectations go up, and I wanna make sure that we continue to, like, raise the bar.
Dave [0:43:57]: And so the feedback that we got from driving year one help make driving year two better.
Dave [0:44:01]: Now we have to take an even bigger step this year.
Dave [0:44:03]: And so I'm trying to fight all of my tendencies to, like, go fast and just, like, shotgun a bunch of stuff out there to really, like, my theme for this year is probably just, like, depth and and quality.
Dave [0:44:14]: We're, like, let's keep...
Dave [0:44:16]: We don't need a bunch of ten ten x crazy ideas.
Dave [0:44:19]: We just need to make, like, everything just a little bit better.
Dmitry [0:44:22]: But if you have those one or two kind of big swings, they'll more than ten x if they're done right.
Dmitry [0:44:27]: I think that's the whole issue with, like, you can't peanut up butter at all.
Dmitry [0:44:31]: You only have...
Dmitry [0:44:32]: Been this good...
Dmitry [0:44:33]: Let's tie.
Dmitry [0:44:33]: All...
Dmitry [0:44:34]: Let's let's bring it all the way back.
Dmitry [0:44:35]: You only have so much time.
Dmitry [0:44:36]: Right?
Dmitry [0:44:37]: You only have so much focus.
Dmitry [0:44:38]: So what are you gonna spend it on and what are what are the stakes?
Dmitry [0:44:42]: You know, what what happens?
Dave [0:44:44]: So Yeah.
Dave [0:44:45]: It's very...
Dave [0:44:45]: It's a...
Dave [0:44:45]: You make a good point.
Dave [0:44:46]: It's very easy to make a list of, like, the hundred things that you could be tweaking and optimizing when it's like, I think it's Tim Ferris, so I've listened to for years, and I I love his perspective on things, but he has this kind of mantra that he says, which is like, What's the one thing?
Dave [0:45:01]: It's like the one thing or one question?
Dave [0:45:02]: I'll I'll I'll watch it, but it...
Dave [0:45:03]: You'll get the concepts.
Dave [0:45:04]: Like, what's the one thing that would make everything else easier?
Dave [0:45:07]: Yes.
Dave [0:45:08]: Yes.
Dave [0:45:10]: And so, like if I did this, would that make the rest of the other smaller things much easier And it's Again, back to things have never changed this, you know, probably like the...
Dave [0:45:19]: This is the pareto principle, the eighty twenty rule.
Dave [0:45:21]: Right?
Dave [0:45:22]: It's like, there's always kinda one or two things that are gonna make all the difference, and then the micro things don't matter as much.
Dmitry [0:45:28]: You're basically just pitching my business now.
Dmitry [0:45:30]: So thank you for that.
Dave [0:45:32]: In what way, just doing one or
Dmitry [0:45:34]: two in in creating space for those one or two big things.
Dmitry [0:45:36]: Like, we all get bogged down in the busy work.
Dmitry [0:45:38]: Right?
Dmitry [0:45:38]: Like, I know you've heard this spiel a million times at this point.
Dmitry [0:45:40]: But it's like, we all get stuck doing these, like, tiny low lift incremental things that prevent us from actually taking chances and and experimenting in real weights.
Dmitry [0:45:51]: So, you know, the idea of, like, what's the one thing?
Dmitry [0:45:55]: Like, for us, it might just be like, oh, you know, what?
Dmitry [0:45:58]: We're working with a client that has a lot paid ads and their design team is super talented, but they're just pumping out, like, resize all day every day.
Dmitry [0:46:08]: Like, that's a bad use of designer.
Dmitry [0:46:09]: Like, I don't care how how bigger advertising business, or how how much business you're doing due to your advertising.
Dmitry [0:46:16]: I promise you there's a way to simplify that workflow to free those designers up for that big event booth that you're spending a ton of money on that box.
Dave [0:46:26]: This is a, you know, This is a symptom of so many teams, which is like, everyone...
Dave [0:46:31]: If you polled everyone on the team, like, everyone is maxed out, everyone is super busy, everyone is on the borderline of burning out and yet we're not hitting our goals.
Dmitry [0:46:39]: No one's doing anything of value.
Dave [0:46:41]: And so often, that's not that individual's fault.
Dave [0:46:43]: So often that speaks to alignment across the organization or, like, trying to do a bunch of marketing for a product that people don't want or isn't the right fit in the market?
Dave [0:46:51]: And
Dmitry [0:46:52]: I think it comes back to fear.
Dmitry [0:46:53]: Yeah.
Dmitry [0:46:54]: And honestly, in in my experience, it also comes back to lack of decision making where someone's not comfortable going in and saying, like, you know what?
Dmitry [0:47:03]: This isn't the right thing.
Dmitry [0:47:04]: This isn't a good use of time, let's let's switch your focus over to something else.
Dave [0:47:10]: Yeah.
Dave [0:47:10]: I think one of my...
Dave [0:47:11]: Back to the superpower thing.
Dave [0:47:12]: Let me just make this about myself one more
Dmitry [0:47:14]: time about you.
Dmitry [0:47:15]: This is literally about you.
Dave [0:47:18]: I think one of my biggest strengths is also one of my biggest weaknesses, but, like, my ability to just blow up the fucking plan and change direction is like, second to none.
Dave [0:47:29]: I mean, if I if I could get Leah to come over here and and and share this right now.
Dave [0:47:34]: Like, I would be like, yeah, let's tell the house We're moving to Hawaii tomorrow.
Dave [0:47:38]: I don't care.
Dave [0:47:38]: Let's do it.
Dmitry [0:47:39]: I think that's Admirable rule now.
Dave [0:47:42]: But here's...
Dave [0:47:42]: And, like, inside of a company, this is where, like, I I can be a problem sometimes because I just, like, I see all these things they're, like, what...
Dave [0:47:48]: Wait.
Dave [0:47:49]: What are we doing?
Dave [0:47:49]: Why, like, okay.
Dave [0:47:51]: That's fine.
Dave [0:47:51]: Like, oh, but this person reports this, and I'm like, I don't care the pain of, like, the longer term pain that we have to deal with in going through this nonsense.
Dave [0:48:00]: Like, let's just fix it right now.
Dave [0:48:02]: Let's just go over there and let's go talk to Dmitry right now, and let's just go fix this.
Dmitry [0:48:06]: Not enough people are willing to do that.
Dave [0:48:08]: I have no patience for anything other than that.
Dmitry [0:48:09]: I don't...
Dmitry [0:48:10]: Like, yes It's a pain in yes.
Dmitry [0:48:11]: Yes they're there are knock on effects for sure.
Dmitry [0:48:13]: But, like, if one of the knock on effects is that you win.
Dmitry [0:48:16]: Like, you you you start generating more business, you start, you know, your team is happier, Your team is, you know, taking more chances learning, doing all the things then, like, who cares if if a couple of people's feelings get hurt, but that's the kinda of thinking that gets you canceled.
Dmitry [0:48:30]: So this feels like...
Dave [0:48:32]: So, it's hard to be a leader that does get you canceled.
Dave [0:48:34]: It's hard to be a leader.
Dave [0:48:35]: It's very easy to not be a leader and to just be on the sidelines and to criticize everyone, like, anyone that's ever been thrust into a position of leadership and you realize that all a sudden now, People don't like you because you have to make hard decisions and hard decisions often hurt people's feelings and that is just the cost of being a leader whether whether you're on the school board, you know, in a small town in Vermont or, you know, run running a company.
Dave [0:48:58]: It's it's no different.
Dmitry [0:49:00]: What's the job.
Dave [0:49:01]: Yes.
Dave [0:49:01]: No, that's right.
Dmitry [0:49:03]: Alright, Dave.
Dmitry [0:49:03]: So we are wrapping up here.
Dmitry [0:49:06]: Where where can people find you.
Dave [0:49:09]: You know what's it's funny Out.
Dave [0:49:10]: This was a great conversation.
Dave [0:49:11]: I've never shared any of this out loud.
Dave [0:49:13]: And so even this was a great way to understand my process.
Dave [0:49:15]: So I'm gonna get this recording from you after.
Dmitry [0:49:17]: Real question.
Dmitry [0:49:18]: Yours.
Dave [0:49:19]: X Exit Five dot com, Linkedin.
Dave [0:49:21]: That's a David at Exit Five dot com.
Dave [0:49:23]: If you if you listen to this and you resonate with anything I said.
Dave [0:49:26]: I I do...
Dave [0:49:27]: I'd love to hear from people, so send me a note, Dave at x Exit Five dot com.
Dave [0:49:30]: I'll try to reply you.
Dave [0:49:31]: Awesome.
Dave [0:49:31]: And dmitry dimitri, thank you.
Dave [0:49:32]: Thanks for your...
Dave [0:49:33]: You've been awesome member of Exit Five.
Dave [0:49:35]: I think what you said it's cool is I feel like, yeah, it's funny you work at a company, but there's, you know, seventy five people on the marketing team.
Dave [0:49:41]: You don't you don't know somebody during that phase of life, but now we do...
Dave [0:49:44]: It's cool to, like, make a friendship that way now, and you know, I'll see you when I see you.
Dmitry [0:49:49]: Couldn't agree more.
Dmitry [0:49:49]: Thank you so much for the time Dave.
Dmitry [0:49:51]: Thank you for being here.
Dmitry [0:49:52]: Excited to get you this recording as fast as possible.
Dave [0:49:56]: Yeah.
Dave [0:49:56]: Get your team on it.
Dmitry [0:49:58]: Yeah.
Dmitry [0:49:58]: We'll we'll do.
Dmitry [0:49:58]: My people will call your cool.
Dmitry [0:50:00]: Alright.
Dmitry [0:50:00]: Be easy.
Dave [0:50:02]: See you.
Speaker_2 [0:50:06]: Hey.
Speaker_2 [0:50:06]: Thanks for listening to this podcast.
Speaker_2 [0:50:08]: If you like this episode.
Speaker_2 [0:50:09]: Do you know what?
Speaker_2 [0:50:10]: I'm not even gonna ask you to subscribe and leave a review because I don't really care about that.
Speaker_2 [0:50:14]: I have something better for you.
Speaker_2 [0:50:15]: So we've built the number one private community for B2B marketers at Exit Five, and you can go and check that out instead of leaving a rating or review, Go check it out right now on our website exitfive.com.
Speaker_2 [0:50:27]: Our mission at Exit Five is to help you grow your career in B2B marketing.
Speaker_2 [0:50:30]: And there's no better place to do that than with us at Exit Five.
Speaker_2 [0:50:34]: There's nearly five thousand members now in our community, people are in there posting every day asking questions about things like marketing planning, ideas, inspiration, asking questions getting feedback from your peers, building your own network of marketers who are doing the same thing you
Dave [0:50:49]: are so you can
Speaker_2 [0:50:50]: have a peer group, or maybe just dent about your boss
Dave [0:50:53]: when you need to get in
Speaker_2 [0:50:54]: there and get something off your chest.
Speaker_2 [0:50:55]: It's a hundred percent free to join for seven days so you can go and check it out risk free and and then there's a small annual fee to pay if you wanna become a member for the year.
Speaker_2 [0:51:04]: Go check it out, learn more, exitfive.com, and I will see you over there in the community.