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Hi everyone and welcome to "The Millionaire Underdog," the podcast that dives deep into the stories of remarkable entrepreneurs who defied the odds and turned their challenges into triumphs. we’re here to bring you inspiring conversations with those who've navigated the stormy seas of business, transforming setbacks into stepping stones towards success.
Speaker 1 (00:00:00) - You're listening to the Millionaire Underdog.
Speaker 2 (00:00:09) - The. Get ready to be inspired. Get ready to embrace the mindset of an underdog. This is the Millionaire Underdog podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:00:23) - Hi, Richard, welcome in the Millionaire Underdog podcast. How are you today?
Speaker 4 (00:00:28) - Good morning. Didier., I'm really well, thank you. And thanks so much for the invite. Really, really pleased to be here.
Speaker 3 (00:00:34) - So, Richard, off, cause I know a bit of you and your company, but can you tell our listeners more about you and your business?
Speaker 4 (00:00:42) - Okay, well,, we're based in the UK, up in North Yorkshire. Beautiful part of the UK.. Very rural., but that's been my sort of home area., throughout my life, in terms of my background. I am a historically a chartered accountant, so numbers has been my sort of thing., but from chartered accountancy., as things sometimes happens, I guess with people you it it wasn't a planned thing to to start my own business and to get into financial services.
Speaker 4 (00:01:23) - It was almost a a guy who just crossed my path,, but left its mark and that that meant. And I just changed sort of direction., and it was an Australian chap who ran a very successful mortgage brokerage out in Australia, had,, multiple offices,, you know, well over 100 staff. So a very successful sort of financial services. And the short version is,, he's sort of crossed my path, and he was looking to set up a UK arm of the, of his business. And after a whirlwind trip out to Australia to meet him, the team,, I made the decision to quit accountancy and to set up the UK arm of the mortgage business. And that's really how I got into,, financial services and as a, as a mortgage broker. And that was in 1997. So,, what's that, 27 sort of years ago?
Speaker 3 (00:02:28) - Can you describe the feeling you had because you were in the accountancy and now in the financial world? It's not a big step.
Speaker 3 (00:02:36) - But still you went to Australia to reinvent yourself. Did you had the ambition to change your path or was it just crossing your road? Yeah.
Speaker 4 (00:02:46) - I think as an account, even though,, I was a chart account in the public sector. So I was,, in the National Health Service and, there was a clear, a sort of path as a, as a chartered accountant that you could rise the ranks of the NHS and take on, you know, more responsibility. And, and it could have been,, maybe an easier path for me,, to,, have that career progression. But that meant you're always, you know, dealing with the more of the politics within the public sector and the health service, which I really, really disliked intensely., and so from a job satisfaction point of view, I always,, you know, I never relished that thought that I was going to stay in that career path for, you know, years and years and the opportunity to test my,, I don't know, my skills and plough my own furrow.
Speaker 4 (00:03:50) - And for whatever effort you put in, you get that reward, which you don't really always get in, in a very large organization like the the NHS was something that I would I'd love to do. And I'd tried various crazy things,, in the past,, everything, you know, from buying an ice cream van to,, being a roofer, I really tried everything all sort of small sort of business ventures,, which was sort of crazy. But then this, like I said, a chance meeting with this Australian chap was the first genuine opportunity to what would essentially be start my own business. But with him as a mentor,, from Australia to,, support me to, to do it. Right. So,, I think I always had that urge to have my own business and that, that was to, to change direction.
Speaker 3 (00:04:47) - If you look back and also any on the future, is it still something that you want to do or do you want to go back to the roof or business?
Speaker 4 (00:04:56) - You know,, look, we're you and I are chatting,, on a I'm just looking out my window, and it is cold and it is wet and it's blustery.
Speaker 4 (00:05:06) - And it was the craziest idea to be a roofer., you know, ridiculous., I'm probably scared of heights., I would have gone out of business,, you know, within months. So,, I realised I started the roofing business in in summer. It was a. I'm a warm, sunny days, and,. But it seemed a great idea. But,,, not much long term planning then, did you?
Speaker 3 (00:05:35) - If I ask you, do you need to have a passion to be an entrepreneur?
Speaker 4 (00:05:41) - Well, I think. Entrepreneur. I have not gone from business to business. I see entrepreneurs quite often as moving from one business opportunity to another to make money. Once I jumped into financial services to set up my business, then, you know, pretty much 20 odd years later, here I am still,, at the head of a financial services business. So am I entrepreneurial? Obviously, there's something in there, and I enjoy,, the business development aspect of it.
Speaker 4 (00:06:15) - , and also investment properties became another sort of arm or a complementary,, adjoining business that,, actually became more of a passion than the financial services. But,, I'm not a serial entrepreneur. I've not gone from setting up, you know, new businesses,,, almost sort of year on year. But it's there's something in there, I think, to want to,, test your own,, ability, motivation, discipline, what expertise you have. And how can you somehow pull all those together and make something that's successful? It's it's like trying to bake a cake. Can you put all those ingredients and will it actually turn out like a cake?, I love that challenge, I gotta say.
Speaker 3 (00:07:00) - And is there an end goal for you?
Speaker 4 (00:07:04) - Well, I am 60 in a few weeks, which is a really a significant milestone., I'm already have one foot into retirement., my daughter now operationally manages the business, which is fantastic from a,, a legacy point of view that I really feel blessed that my family are part of this.
Speaker 4 (00:07:29) - And I'm not just selling a business at the end of it. So that's Baton is being passed on., so I'm now part time and as I, as I turn 60, that will,, there'll be a line where I most hesitate in telling you because I don't know if I've got my head around it, but,, I'm retiring this summer.
Speaker 5 (00:07:53) - Okay. Amazing.
Speaker 4 (00:07:54) - Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:07:55) - So,.
Speaker 4 (00:07:56) - So that,, I can just enjoy sort of time with with the family. I bought a motorhome, so I'm committed. I'm committed to retiring. It's definitely a retirement thing to buy a motorhome. So,. Yeah, doing a lot of traveling will be the will be the thing.
Speaker 3 (00:08:10) - You know, there is one thing that is picking my mind. People above 50 years old are getting more comfortable and want to relax more. In your opinion, what's the main reason that people are shifting to another level of thinking?.
Speaker 4 (00:08:27) - Certainly as I, as I got older and,, you know, that you start to hopefully learn from the mistakes that you've made along the sort of path and you, you learn who to trust and who not to in business,, that you can somehow sort of pull these things together and, and actually start to bring them to, to sort of fruition.
Speaker 4 (00:08:49) - And I think you also realize as you, as you're in your 50s, that you're closer to the end than the start. And so if you need, if you ever wanted,, additional motivation to pull your finger out and do something significant with your life,, you know, it's okay being successful., I once met a guy,, again, he was another Australian sort of chap, and he only briefly crossed my path for almost dares. But,, he still resonates some of the things he said to me and he talked about,, the different stages of of going through your sort of life, life as an adult. And one one is sort of, yes, been financially successful, but then it moved on to sort of being significant. And,,, I don't know whether I've achieved that, maybe for other people, you know, in the future to, to look back. But I think certainly in your 50s,, aiming for significance rather than success,, is something that that's,, you know, is not far from my mind as, as you,, as you head towards then 60 and where you literally are then starting to think about,, pina coladas and sat on a, you know, on a lilo next to a swimming pool.
Speaker 3 (00:10:08) - If you look back at your career, what was your biggest mistake?
Speaker 4 (00:10:12) - Gosh, that's a really good, good question.. I. I mean, I would say. Possibly not following my instincts., a little earlier., being scared to go out of my comfort zone was is probably the biggest lesson.
Speaker 6 (00:10:39) - .
Speaker 4 (00:10:40) - You know, we all. You know, enjoy being in our comfort zones. Obviously there's there's that warm, fuzzy feeling. And to step over the line outside of that is a scary place to be. But but I've learned eventually it's the only place you've got to be if you're going to grow as an individual. And I, I really wish that I could have learned that lesson younger.. And it would have I would have been braver, a little bit more courageous and realize that it's nothing something. It's nothing to fear. It's a path you have to go down., if you're going to develop as a human being and not stagnate and,, I feel. Party in terms of the entrepreneurial side of things and setting up my own business.
Speaker 4 (00:11:33) - ,, yeah. So, so that I would say that is probably the thing that that,, if I look back on my life, that is probably the biggest regret.
Speaker 3 (00:11:42) - So, as you know, I am the founder of a leading branding and marketing agency. We need to constantly evolving our business to stay ahead of the game. So I am wondering, what are you doing in your business to stay ahead of the game?.
Speaker 4 (00:11:59) - Yeah. Yeah. No, it's a good question., well, for me, my. Fashion outside of, you know, organising mortgages and different financial sort of products is being a landlord. I, I first got my I got my first investment property in the late 90s and I and I've sort of built a portfolio, probably bought about 40 properties,, in the sort of following 15 years or so., so. And I realize that that for me, it was a vehicle for retirement. And that was my reason why for getting into sort of investment property.
Speaker 4 (00:12:43) - And I realized that you didn't have to just contribute to the traditional types of pensions that we have in the UK,, and rely again on other people as to whether that pension was going to,, grow at a certain pace or indeed our government telling us when we can retire and actually draw on that pension and that line in the sand. You know, probably when I started out on my career,, you could retire at 60 and then it went to 65, and then it went to 66, and then it went to 67, you know, so,, as we're all living longer, the government have got obviously that issue,, retirement. So getting into investment property allowed me to take more control of when I wanted to retire. And I really, really passionate about investment property. The reason I'm telling you that is that that gives a bit of context for where I went with the brokerage in that rather than just being a generic general mortgage broker who organises all, all the range of mortgages that you would expect a broker to do.
Speaker 4 (00:13:42) - , I realized that there were very few brokers who absolutely specialized in the area of working with investment,, properties and the finance and mortgages that go with all the different types and strategies that come with a landlord, that they're looking at the different types of property to,, ultimately probably do the same thing that build a portfolio, to build a passive income that allows them the choice and the freedom to retire. So.
Speaker 6 (00:14:14) - .
Speaker 4 (00:14:15) - As the regulations changed in the UK and got more complicated and the tax laws changed., then I saw an opportunity to,, change direction with the mortgage brokerage and set up,,, a brand that hopefully could,, sort of satisfy the needs of landlords out there who really wanted to grow apart. Folio.
Speaker 6 (00:14:43) - , but.
Speaker 4 (00:14:43) - Needed a broker who was also a landlord themselves, so understood the issues and challenges of a landlord, spoke that landlord language, but then could also help support them with the finance to better grow that that portfolio and that. That's pretty much our focus right now,, to sort of develop the business.
Speaker 3 (00:15:04) - If you go back in time as an accountant, you need to be very creative with numbers. If you look at your today's business, is there a certain creativity involved in good leadership?
Speaker 4 (00:15:16) - Yeah, yes, I'd say so. There are there are different types of of leaders.. And I'm not natural. I'm not,, I don't have that great big personality. Where,, I'm at the at the front, you know, as a warrior type, you know, with the sword in the air, say, come on, follow me. You know that there are those types of leaders, but there are also,, I'm, you know, naturally,, a quieter,, individual. And so I'm at, you know, my leadership, you know, maybe comes through more subtly and because some more analytical,, and, yes, creativity is part of that, but it's,, it. It's definitely my brain, not my heart, that I lead with., my wife would say I don't have a heart, frankly, but,, that comes back to the accountants, you know, being,, very logical.
Speaker 4 (00:16:12) - So,, I tend to, to lead through demonstrating, through knowledge, through numbers, through showing the paths for our clients, how they can,, get from A to B because. For most working class people to to even the thought of building a multi-million pound portfolio and generating perhaps a six figure £100,000 plus income sounds ridiculous. So to be able to lead a client by the hand, to grab them by the hand and demonstrate with the numbers how you can build that portfolio and how creatively that are where you don't have to just save like a traditional pension from your wages. Otherwise, absolutely. You'll probably never get there. You have to have creativity. You have to look at all the different financial products out there. You have to talk about joint ventures and collaborations,, and other creative ways to get there. And then then you. It's fantastic when the penny drops and they get excited at the same way you do. So. So that's how I'd approach that.
Speaker 3 (00:17:24) - There are people in business that have made it, others that went bankrupt.
Speaker 3 (00:17:28) - In my opinion. It has to do a lot with fear. They often don't know how to adapt and lose market share. What's your strategy to keep innovating?
Speaker 6 (00:17:38) - .
Speaker 4 (00:17:39) - Again, I think the accountant's background is. Is it for me? Was. And as an accountant. By the way, I was a management accountant, so my responsibility was to look after a £13 million budget that covered a number of hospitals. So fiscal responsibility, setting up budgets, understanding how to control and manage finance, making sure you're always liquid, having reserves and contingencies. That that expertise came through into my business life. So I've always. Being a business owner that has that's had a despite being an entrepreneur, you might think, well that's a gambler. And I would disagree and challenge that. You're not a gambler. You understand what the risks are and you mitigate those risks before you take your decision. And I think my, my,, history and background as a, as a management accountant meant that all, all my, you know, development in business and, and trying to forecast how the business might develop and what might go wrong and what is the worst case and how financially we would ride those laws.
Speaker 4 (00:19:04) - , were, were,, really important. And sorry, here's another, another thing, Didier, to just to bring it back to the the thing as a landlord in 2008 the UK suffered probably it's it's more significant depression recession, since the Second world War. And with. Despite everything I've just said about attitude to risk and,, trying to second guess what's going to go on. I, I sitting here today and saying, I, I did not foresee the depth of, of the financial crisis that happened in the UK and obviously worldwide in 2008. However, here's the thing. At 2008, I had a portfolio of 15 properties, not the largest portfolio in the world, but I had 15 properties that were bringing in a passive income. Do you know what? I didn't even realize at that point how significant that was, because my reason for getting that portfolio was for the future. It's for for a retirement. It was a hobby. However, it became an absolute life saver. So when my mortgage business went through the floor and for three years, I kept turning up to my mortgage business and I could not make one penny profit for three whole years.
Speaker 4 (00:20:29) - My portfolio, the passive income was coming in and that had actually I didn't realize this for months. It had grabbed me by the scruff of the neck financially and carried me through those times and allowed me to pay the bills until the recession and the crisis came out the other side. And I was then still in the business because, frankly, 50% of all mortgage brokers in the UK had to leave the industry at that time. And I was one of those businesses that could stay in the business, stay in that industry because of the portfolio. So this notwithstanding everything I've just said,. The. It was actually my,, portfolio. That was my insurance policy for when,, the financial crisis,, hit the UK at that time.
Speaker 3 (00:21:22) - Was there a moment that you took a complete risk and that you thought, I will never get there?
Speaker 6 (00:21:28) - Yeah, yeah..
Speaker 4 (00:21:31) - Yeah. The risks.
Speaker 6 (00:21:33) - .
Speaker 4 (00:21:34) - Obviously change over time. And certainly having that portfolio,, allowed me because I was still in the industry to be on the front foot.
Speaker 4 (00:21:45) - So when we did turn a corner and the bank started opening up for business and the opportunities were there to grow your business, I was then able to sort of take advantage of that. So,, I, you know, that's why I'm not only grateful for having that portfolio, but I'm passionate about teaching others about how important,, building a healthy portfolio is.
Speaker 3 (00:22:09) - If we go back to the beginning of our conversation, we were talking about that Australian guy. Is he for your role model or mentor?
Speaker 4 (00:22:18) - Would I have made it without him? Who knows?, but this mentor in Australia, not only did he have a successful,, mortgage business, he was a landlord as well. So he was the first guy that sold the seeds about property,, being a mechanism of vehicle for retirement or for choosing whether you get out of your bed every day,, and whether you got to work or not, rather than your efforts resulting in reward. Having a passive income was,, was an absolute eye opener.
Speaker 4 (00:22:50) - So I'll be forever grateful for. For these guys that cross your path and you don't realize if you're not ready, if you're not ready for it, I suspect these guys will cross your path more often than you think. So maybe, you know, maybe it had to happen at that time. Maybe I wouldn't have been ready when,, when I was younger, but,. Yeah, I'll certainly be forever grateful to,, to Warren, who's the the Australian chap who,. Yeah, absolutely acted as a mentor for me at that point.
Speaker 3 (00:23:19) - So you know how our show works. We ask a previous guest to submit a question for our next guest. So here comes your question. What is the one thing that you still want to realise before death?
Speaker 4 (00:23:32) - Okay,. Well. Something else that I've got really passionate about in recent years is I'm really into triathlon.
Speaker 6 (00:23:46) - .
Speaker 4 (00:23:46) - And I absolutely love it as a sport., and it got to a point where I, I am now a member of the Great Britain,, triathlon team, and.
Speaker 4 (00:24:01) - It's extremely competitive environment, but my ambition on a personal level is to. Compete in the World Championships and to,, get on the podium to get in the top three at the World Championships., at triathlon. And I've already qualified and I'll be going later this year,, in October to compete. And what I I've seen it publicly. I've never said it publicly. Did you. So I wasn't quite expecting this. So I'm going to have to now, you know, roll my sleeves up. But,, so what I want to do is to get a top three finish at World Championship level in triathlon later this year. So,. Yeah, ask me how I've done,, you know, over the year, but yeah, that's that is a massive, massive personal,, ambition of mine for, for this.
Speaker 3 (00:24:56) - Year. So this will be the biggest risk that you will take in life so far.
Speaker 7 (00:25:01) - Yeah. It is. It's.
Speaker 4 (00:25:03) - Well, I've fallen off. Only last year I broke bones.
Speaker 4 (00:25:06) - So,. Yeah, if you get it wrong, certainly when you're training on a bike,, it's not very forgiving when you hit the tarmac, particularly at the age of 59. I don't bounce like I used to do., so, yeah, you could say it's a it's risky from that point of view.
Speaker 3 (00:25:20) - Also, our next guest, a real millionaire underdog, will receive a question. What do you want to know?
Speaker 4 (00:25:27) - My my question would be and it's sort of links in a little bit to what you asked me., earlier. When were you last out of your comfort zone?
Speaker 3 (00:25:39) - Thanks again for being our guest on the Millionaire Underdog podcast. I am looking for or to welcome you again very soon.
Speaker 4 (00:25:47) - Didier. Thank you. I've really enjoyed it this morning. Thank you for your time and have a great day.