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Join feminist coaches Taina Brown and Becky Mollenkamp for casual (and often deep) conversations about business, current events, politics, pop culture, and more. We’re not perfect activists or allies! These are our real-time, messy feminist perspectives on the world around us.
This podcast is for you if you find yourself asking questions like:
• Why is feminism important today?
• What is intersectional feminism?
• Can capitalism be ethical?
• What does liberation mean?
• Equity vs. equality — what's the difference and why does it matter?
• What does a Trump victory mean for my life?
• What is mutual aid?
• How do we engage in collective action?
• Can I find safety in community?
• What's a feminist approach to ... ?
• What's the feminist perspective on ...?
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (00:00.599)
Hi, Taina.
Taina Brown she/hers (00:02.081)
Hello.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (00:03.587)
It's a rainy day here. So if anyone's watching on YouTube, you'll see I'm in a different spot because this is my cozy recliner in my office, my little reading nook that I set up. I'm not reading because I do need to work, but I was like, you know what? I'm going to sit here with the window open. hear the rain falling. Oh, hopefully, I will edit out the noise of the rain. But yeah, there's little rain. You hear a bird every once in a while chirping.
Taina Brown she/hers (00:20.398)
I can hear it behind you or wherever it is in the office.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (00:31.201)
It's nice and gray. I love a rainy day. I know some people do not, but it just, I mean, the problem is doesn't make me feel productive. That is true. But that's also probably part of why I love it because I feel like it takes me out of my capitalist urgency, go, go, go. I have to produce whatever kind of speed and into like, I just want to snuggle up. I want to read or watch some sort of trashy TV. I want to cuddle with my pup. Like I want to eat.
Taina Brown she/hers (00:35.051)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (00:43.106)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (01:00.649)
bread and just like exist, you know? And I love that feeling. I don't know if I lived in Seattle and it rained all the time and Seattle people are probably like, it doesn't rain all the time. I know. But if I live somewhere where it rained all the time, maybe I wouldn't enjoy that as much. Maybe we don't get as many of those days, but I just, love a storm. Like, I love it. Like full thunderstorms too. This is just like little rain.
Taina Brown she/hers (01:17.101)
Hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (01:26.689)
Yeah.
any kind of weather I'm here for. Let me backtrack. Not any kind of weather. Any kind of weather that you can still function in if you needed to. I think that...
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (01:36.321)
I hate her.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (01:42.957)
Well, some people would say they can't function in the rain because you can't, you know, I don't know, they act like they're going to melt. I won't melt. Some people don't like it anymore.
Taina Brown she/hers (01:47.586)
That's true. That's true. There's something cathartic about the sound.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (01:55.939)
Okay, I'm also I'm a Pisces So I'm a water sign. I Love I love the ocean like if you get if I had to choose between ocean and mountains, I'm choosing ocean every time I love the mountains don't get me wrong, but I'm more of it like ocean water rain has a similar feeling of like catharsis and Religion almost like it's the thing that makes the most sort of connected to a bigger world like I am part
Taina Brown she/hers (01:59.767)
So you like being in water? Yeah, you like being in water.
Taina Brown she/hers (02:17.355)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (02:25.42)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (02:26.375)
And I love that feeling. love that reminder. Hot does not do that for me. I don't even mind snow because, you know, it turns into water. It is water.
Taina Brown she/hers (02:34.253)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah, I'm really tired today. It's been quite a few weeks. I mean, I hardly ever sleep well, but we traveled over the weekend and we're getting ready to travel again tomorrow. So I'm exhausted. We are flying.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (02:53.987)
Are you fun?
I wish you all the luck. I hope things are a little better since I guess TSA is getting paid now or I don't know but it's been...
Taina Brown she/hers (02:59.181)
Thank you.
Taina Brown she/hers (03:05.421)
During the process of getting paid, saw on the news that they like, last time this happened, it still took like six to eight weeks before they saw anything really hit their accounts.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (03:14.723)
Exactly. So, and I hope, I'm hoping maybe ice will be gone by the time here, but it's tough. Like this flying right now is just an exhausting experience. So traveling, I think is always exhausting. And then when you have to deal with levels of things, it's just even more exhausting. So it's like almost like you're pre-exhausted for what's to come.
Taina Brown she/hers (03:30.903)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (03:38.092)
yeah, yeah, for sure. There's so much to do to prepare too, like, because it's international travel. we're like, we always get travel insurance when we travel internationally. We've got to like figure out how we're going to get from the airport to like wherever we're going, you know, like what are we going to do with our car? Yeah, we are, we're going to Paris.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (04:00.439)
You want to share anything about your trip?
Taina Brown she/hers (04:08.204)
We're taking my wife's cousin, who is graduating high school this year on a graduation trip that we have been talking about for years and not planning for years, but.
Yeah, kind of planning for years. We've been talking about it for a while.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (04:28.029)
Well, speaking of eating food, you're going to be eating croissant and delicious foods. you like, so obviously there's the tiring parts of travel. What are you excited about? By the time this comes airs, by the way, because we're pre-recording, you'll be like, so we're not alerting people to where you are and you're going to be actively there. This will be after, but so what are you most excited about?
Taina Brown she/hers (04:32.166)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (04:41.824)
I'll probably be back.
Taina Brown she/hers (04:48.352)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (04:54.347)
I think just the one, the act of traveling, like I like traveling and we haven't taken a big trip like this in several years. So that's exciting in and of itself. Paris is one of our favorite cities. And so, and I say that like we've been there for like so many times. We haven't, y'all we haven't. We're not those people. We don't travel like that, but we have been. No.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (05:17.857)
You're not playing a P.J. You're not taking your private jet.
Taina Brown she/hers (05:21.59)
But we have been before. It would not be our first time there. But yeah, so I'm excited to just be back in the city and there's...
It never feels like there's like you would run out of stuff to do and see there and obviously all the bread, all the food, just the food in general, just the food in general. I've never had really a bad meal in Paris.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (05:51.053)
patisserie. Like when I think about the Great British Bake Off, which I always watch, anytime they're doing the French inspired stuff like croissant or baked goods in that way, or patisserie, the fine little, you know, desserts. I love it. Mmm, chocolat.
Taina Brown she/hers (05:52.596)
Mmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (06:00.939)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (06:07.499)
Just so good, so good, the hot chocolate. Yeah, this will be our first time going in the spring. that we were usually there. Again, we don't go that often. The times that we have been have been in the fall for our anniversary wedding type stuff. So, but this is.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (06:35.075)
We'll get to see what it's like this time of year.
Taina Brown she/hers (06:36.913)
Yeah, yeah, it's her spring break. So, so it'll be nice. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (06:39.555)
Well, I have a question that maybe will spark something because we're not entirely sure what we're to talk about this episode. But you do travel a fair amount, both domestically and you've traveled some internationally and together as a couple. I'm curious what your experiences are as queer women of color travel.
Taina Brown she/hers (06:57.054)
Hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (06:57.857)
both domestically and internationally. Like are there things, because I think sometimes folks who don't have those sorts of identities don't always understand, because again, you see the world through your lens. I think it can be helpful for people to understand the different ways that we navigate the world. And obviously you only know the way you navigate, but I think you've had enough experiences being around folks who don't share those identities.
Taina Brown she/hers (06:59.689)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (07:09.737)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (07:21.182)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (07:21.703)
people with privileged identities to know maybe a little of the differences. And I'm curious, are there things that are more challenging or things that maybe would surprise me that aren't more challenging? If you're open to sharing that, we don't have to go there.
Taina Brown she/hers (07:33.018)
Yeah, yeah, no. I haven't always identified as queer when I've traveled. Like when I was younger and I identified as straight, I had like I had still done some international travel and some domestic travel. So excuse me, being queer and traveling with another queer person and both of us being like not straight, not white.
um fat-bodied, you know, like disabled, like that it's a lot of things to consider. Like for me, well with the queerness, right, like there are certain places we won't travel to. Like we have to consider that wherever we're going, whenever we're trying to plan a trip somewhere, so we're like okay, um there are certain places it's just we will never travel to because it's just unsafe unless
things radically change. And then even the places that we do go, like we're always cognizant of.
things like holding hands, being too familiar in certain public spaces, depending on what we know of the culture of the place that we're going to. And so if it's a highly conservative kind of environment, whether culturally or religiously, then we're a little more conservative with each other, right, in how we interact. There have been times where
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (09:09.761)
And I would, I'm sorry, I would guess that's true domestically as well, right?
Taina Brown she/hers (09:11.39)
Huh?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Even here in the States, even some places where we go in the States, like there have been times where we have like been in a Lyft or an Uber or out in public, both here in the States and abroad where strangers will strike up conversations with strangers. And depending on the vibe, depending on the environment, we'll just be like, oh, we're roommates or we're friends or we work together, you know? And so just because
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (09:40.515)
Is that something you two talk about or are you both generally perceiving things in a similar way so that that can even go unsaid between you? just both kind of know, like, this is a space where we're gonna go roommates here. You know what I mean? Like, that's what we talk about.
Taina Brown she/hers (09:55.977)
Yeah, it's both. It's both. It's both. think part of it is like we've been together for so long now, we kind of have like this like body language that is kind of like shorthand for not having to speak. Sometimes we'll just text each other. we might be in the same space in the same car and we'll just be like, you know, just to kind of like, if we're unsure. But I think
If it's someplace we've never been before, we usually will talk about it beforehand and be like, how do you feel? Or maybe not beforehand, but once we get there, that first day after just initial first impressions, when we're back at the Airbnb or the hotel or wherever we're staying, might be like, one of us will surely bring it up. But we're usually on the same page, I think.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:52.935)
That's one of the things that I really love about my relationship with my wife. It's like, for a lot of things, we are, like, we're just like tracking. Like, we can just look at each other and be like, yeah, we're thinking the exact same thing right now. And so...
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (11:09.571)
I would assume it helps that you're both women of color as well.
Taina Brown she/hers (11:12.152)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And then for like everything else, there are other things to consider like being in a bigger body, like how comfortable is the plane ride going to be? How long is it going to be? Like, am I going to need to like ask for a seatbelt extender? Right. Because like not all plane seats are made the same. Right. Not all airlines have the same width of the seat.
am I gonna, depending on the airport, am I gonna have to have wheelchair assistance because I'm not gonna be able to like survive the walk. And it's not that I can't physically walk there on my own, but it's by the time I get to the gate, I'm gonna be like just done for. I'm gonna have like no energy left to like adequately survive a six hour flight or a three hour flight or however long the flight might be. And then...
when I land, get off the plane and get through that airport and do all of that. And so there's so much to consider. And then Mello gets sick quite easily. And so we're always like prepping days beforehand on like vitamins and Zycam and staying hydrated and things like that and taking ginger shots. And so it's a lot of.
prep work. It's a lot. And then we're both on like so many medications. So then it's like, do we have all the meds that we need? What refills do we need to get, you know, from the pharmacy, making sure all of that is packed? Like, it's so much work to just travel. And it's a privilege. And I recognize it's a privilege to be able to travel in the first place. But it doesn't come without a lot of effort.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (12:56.035)
Yeah, of course you're tired.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (13:04.098)
Well, right. I think it's important for people who don't share some of these identities to understand the added layers. Because again, this is one of these places where people with more privilege can get dismissive of other folks because their experience differs, where they might think it's not that big of a deal. Why are you tired before you even leave? And here's all these reasons. Do you all mask on the plane?
Taina Brown she/hers (13:26.012)
We do mask on the plane for sure, in the airport and on the plane. I have lung issues and so breathing through a mask for me sometimes gets a little complicated. occasionally, whenever we do travel intermittently, I will have to take it off to just kind of catch my breath or just, and I'm also claustrophobic, mildly claustrophobic. So wearing a mask also, if I'm stressed out.
that makes the claustrophobia worse. So, hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (13:56.771)
That's a problem I have. So I have anxiety. And traveling for me is really challenging around that particular issue. And masking is an issue that can accelerate some of the anxiety and end up turning into a panic attack because of claustrophobic feelings I have. So I will sometimes like, will have to like lift my mask or just move it up so I can feel, I feel less restricted.
Taina Brown she/hers (14:12.09)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (14:18.128)
Yeah.
air in your face. Yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (14:23.423)
I was just curious because I know too masking on planes now is a thing or has been for a while a thing where I mean we see the videos on social media of people causing a whole stir about how why are you wearing a mask as if it's affecting their lives. Just one more thing I think that you might
Taina Brown she/hers (14:37.264)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, it's another thing to think about and like, yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (14:43.107)
is ridiculous but it is reality. My choice of mask should not offend you if anything you
Taina Brown she/hers (14:50.084)
Yeah, no, and my wife, when she was in grad school, she actually did a study, she was part of a study where they tested the bacteria in the air vents in airplanes. So we never opened those because it's pretty disgusting.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (15:11.245)
Thanks for telling me because I often because of my anxiety I start I get hot really easy because my body furnace like my the anxiety is causing everything in my body to like spin it feels like I get heated and so I will turn them on just because I'm like I can't like it contributes not being able to breathe but now I don't know that's I need to do better at that.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:12.483)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:22.01)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:27.397)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, no, take a little handheld fan with you. That's a more hygienic option, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (15:37.347)
And then with things like with disability and being a larger body, I think the US, we're not ahead in a lot of ways.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:47.109)
Yeah
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (15:48.193)
But when we look at Europe, do feel like one area where the US does often do better than Europe is for people in larger bodies and people who have disabilities. And the Americans with Disabilities Act has gone a long way in helping with that. And just for people in those situations to be able to navigate the world a little more easily and that things are more accessible. Europe, it can be challenging. mean, because it's thousands of years old before.
Taina Brown she/hers (16:10.691)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (16:15.557)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (16:16.277)
No, there was any ADA or anyone who's, know, at that time, eugenics was alive and well, right? I mean, it's to a degree, but it was sort of like, well, we just.
Taina Brown she/hers (16:22.063)
Yeah.
If you were sick, you just stayed home.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (16:27.049)
Exactly. so it's stairs galore. It's lack of elevators. If there are elevators, they're for a single person. there's just a lot of things that can be really challenging for and narrow. Things are very narrow. Scenes are even smaller. All of that. So you've been to Europe a few times. Are there things that come up there around that that maybe that's an area where maybe you don't have as many challenges in the US? I'm wondering what your experience is with that.
Taina Brown she/hers (16:40.089)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (16:52.632)
No, it definitely is challenging because we do like to travel like locals, right? And so we feel one, it's better for just the community that we're traveling to. But also it's a more immersive experience. Like we don't like to feel like tourists when we're traveling. We like to feel like, we're just spending time somewhere else.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (17:19.348)
This is why I hate cruises and because they go to tourist... all little pit stops and tourist areas.
Taina Brown she/hers (17:21.858)
And like all inclusive stuff. Yeah. Not, yeah, not only is that stuff so bad for like cruises are so bad for the environment. All inclusive things are just so bad for like the local population and the local community. But, but just in general, like it's just, it's so, those things feel so manufactured and fabricated. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (17:42.603)
It doesn't feel real. You don't feel like you're actually, you could pick that same thing up and move it to any other resort town or whatever and can tell the difference. I'm with you on that.
Taina Brown she/hers (17:50.327)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so when I'm somewhere, I want to be there. Like I want to see, you know, and experience all of it. And so there are some challenges because, like you said, like a lot of places in Europe, a lot of the buildings and the architecture and the streets are thousands of years old. Haven't really been super modernized. Like for instance, showers.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (18:16.983)
It's gonna be very talented.
Taina Brown she/hers (18:19.863)
are very, very small. I remember when we went on our honeymoon, we flew into London and we took the tube to our Airbnb. There's no elevators in the tube or at least not any of the stops that we went to. And so we're carting around our luggage. and this, we were on our honeymoon for two weeks.
Like we took a two week honeymoon. so, and I will, we were only able to do this. need to say this because I don't want people to get the wrong idea about this. We were only able to do that because at the time I worked for a travel company. And so we were able to travel in a way that was beyond our means without having to pay for everything. So, and so we have these huge suitcases that we're having to.
take up and down these stairs after like traveling overnight, dealing with airport, all of that in the rain in London. I got sick. I got so sick because of that. And so like the entire two weeks I was just like sick and I didn't have a lot of energy to do much that we had planned to do. And so I mean, it was still a nice trip. Like it was our honeymoon. Like it was still nice and it was still fun, but
But just things like that. And I remember thinking, I'm like, what if I couldn't climb the stairs? What if I was in a wheelchair? How would we get out of the tube?
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (20:00.419)
That was my experience in Europe too. And I mean, I was in a larger body. wasn't, you know, in a, I was not incapable at that time of being able to walk or anything or have distances. I had good footwear. I was prepared, all the things. But I remember thinking like, Oh my gosh, how would you even in Greece and, and, and Rome and some of the places where went, the cobblestone, it,
Taina Brown she/hers (20:09.508)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (20:13.058)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (20:22.062)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (20:26.094)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (20:26.563)
not at all friendly to somebody who's using a walker, a cane, you know, probably even a wheelchair. And you didn't see a lot of people out like that. And it was no wonder to me why Europeans, I think, are on the whole probably in smaller bodies, because you walk everywhere. But it also makes me think, I bet there are people who are not, who are not out. And that's why we don't see them, right? Because you could, it's hard to function, know?
Taina Brown she/hers (20:41.675)
You have to, yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (20:50.071)
Yeah, you just don't see them. Yeah.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (20:56.515)
It just like public transportation is often really good, but it's not always wheelchair accessible. It's not, know, again, it's sort of like in many cases, some of it is like being in an airplane where again, the seats are not made for all size bodies. And then when you're outside of bigger urban areas, much of that becomes not available anymore.
Taina Brown she/hers (21:03.405)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (21:10.669)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (21:18.817)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (21:19.499)
It's just very challenging. that isn't like, I'm not one to talk about the U.S. in positive way all that often, but I will say, I do think that the U.S. has done better in that area. Now, part of that is because, for reasons that are not great, because we don't have as much public transportation and people are in their own cars and they're doing things like that. But there is a lot to be said for the Americans with Disability Act, I think is one of, perhaps one of the most important pieces of legislation to ever.
Taina Brown she/hers (21:33.961)
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (21:47.341)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (21:47.971)
out of this country and what it has done to make sure that people have a place to park, they have a restroom they can use, there's an elevator and or ramps and things to make sure that they can get in and out of spaces. And that those accommodations have to be made anywhere of certain, where there's going to be a certain amount of population. I just think that, so cheers to the US. That's one way we've done well. Now, I'm curious for you if you can compare and contrast, because I have
Taina Brown she/hers (21:54.882)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:11.458)
.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (22:16.875)
I'm interested to know. might be completely wrong. But as queer women, then when you are visibly recognized as being queer, meaning it's pretty clear who you are together, right? Two women and what appears to be probably a relationship, not just apart like a roommate or friends. And as women of color, which you don't get to step out of, right? There's no like looking at each other saying, OK, today we're going to be white. Like that doesn't work.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:25.68)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:32.396)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:42.464)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (22:43.221)
So in those ways, what have you noticed in differences when you've been international versus the US or in and within parts of the US? Like, I'm curious if there's any specific stories that you could share that might help people understand some of those things that you have to navigate that maybe people who don't hold those identities don't think about.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:01.345)
Yeah, yeah. I think we have done such a good job of curating where we go that we haven't really had that much of an issue with the way people perceive us or engage with us because we're queer or women of color. We have had, it's been a little less.
when people know that we're Americans.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (23:34.711)
Well, that's very interesting because that's something we all have to deal with if we travel now. And that's not surprising. Our status in the world is not what it once was.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:39.957)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:43.619)
Yeah, yeah. we try to, if we're going somewhere where the language is different, we try to...
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (23:51.021)
France, one those places that's notorious for, you know, we're not here to accommodate to you, nor should they.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:57.12)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we try to at least have a cursory understanding of just like basic phrases and words and things like that so that we can respect the culture. Try to have a basic understanding of the culture there. Like for instance, in France and a lot of places in Europe, when you go to a restaurant, don't sit down unless you are going to actually order something and pay for it.
That is such a bad etiquette. It's considered such a rude behavior to sit down and be like, nevermind, we changed our mind, or look at the menu and then be like, no, we're going to go somewhere else. That's why a lot of menus are always posted on the street so you can see. And we've seen other Americans do that while we've traveled. And then we're just like.
Should we just not eat here now because we're Americans and we don't want to be associated with them?
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (24:57.389)
Well, tipping is different in different cultures too. So understanding, asking, you know, like if you have a concierge at your hotel, stop and ask, what's the customs here around tipping before you start making presumptions? Because in some place it's considered rude for you to leave the tips of really figuring that out. And then I think as Americans just on the whole, we just don't have to be so loud. That's what we are known for.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:01.345)
Tipping is different, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:13.877)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:20.627)
Yeah, Americans take up a lot of space, a lot of space in the volume at which they speak, in body language and things like that. And in a lot of other cultures, taking up that much space is not only considered unnecessary, but rude, right? Because then you don't leave space for other people. so in places like France and a lot of European countries, a lot of Latin American countries, South American countries,
You don't do that, and you don't really engage super friendly with people you don't know, right? Because there's a boundary there that is supposed to be respected. There's also just like...
Taina Brown she/hers (26:10.197)
And this might seem trite to some people, but just like what we wear when we travel, like we're very conscious about making sure that one, that we're not gonna stand out too much because there is such a thing as like people who prey on tourists, right? And so we don't wanna stand out too much because we don't wanna be targeted for things like that. Like we had a friend who traveled to France and she got robbed.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (26:26.179)
4-4.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:37.888)
and they took her wallet and her passport and all that and she had to go to the embassy. And it was the beginning of a 14-day trip for her. She was going to be in France and in Italy.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (26:48.803)
And just in full fairness, people get mugged in New York and in yeah, exactly. Right. But yes, it does happen, especially when it's very clear that you're standing, looking around, trying to figure out where you're at, because you're not paying attention.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:52.943)
yeah, all the time. That's not unusual in big cities.
Taina Brown she/hers (27:03.836)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But also like in a place like France where there's people are very conscious of how they present themselves and you know what they're wearing and making sure that they look clean and appropriate and like and they look they present themselves as their best self. Right. Which can seem really shallow to some people but that's that's the culture there. And so we want to respect that. And so we make sure we're like OK.
What are we packing? What are we gonna wear? What are we doing that day and how are we gonna look and make sure that there's, hmm?
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (27:38.051)
You're not just gonna wear sweatpants and yoga pants like we do here. You're not just gonna wear sweatpants and yoga pants all day like we do in the US. Right.
Taina Brown she/hers (27:43.039)
No, no, we're not. We really put a lot of intention into how we travel. so, because again, we just want to be respectful. I remember, I never used to think this way until maybe...
What year is it? 2026? Maybe like eight years ago, maybe I came across someone on Instagram who wrote, they used to write, actually they used to write for Bitch Magazine, which came up in conversation the other day when we were talking to Koa. But...
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (28:04.803)
What is this?
Taina Brown she/hers (28:26.15)
Yeah, their name is Bonnie and they used to write for Bitch Magazine and they're a freelance writer and they write about the intersection of just like white supremacy and travel, travel culture and migration and like spaces and things like that. And so I came across their stuff on Instagram and we kind of struck up a little parasocial friendship and I just, learned a lot from them about.
what it means to be in somebody else's space and how a lot of how we in the Western world think about that, think about travel and how to be in other people's space is from a colonial mindset.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (29:07.395)
For sure, we think that we are wanted everywhere. People should be grateful we've shown up and treat us that way. And then that's how we show up in the world. And not only is that not true, but it makes us look, it just makes it even worse when we show up.
Taina Brown she/hers (29:10.301)
Mm-hmm that we're entitled to it
Taina Brown she/hers (29:22.527)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, just because I'm spending my money here does not entitle me to anything in this space. And so we try to be very conscientious of that and as like kind and humble as we can wherever we go. And again, it's not like we travel all the time.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (29:44.973)
you just you're you're having something here I just want to exonerate you from all feelings of like needing to you worry that everyone thinks you're super privileged and even if you are privileged like that's okay too right like if you're able to travel that's a lovely privilege it's a wonderful gift and it's also something that people should be able to do freedom of movement is something we should all
be happy about. And I think it is unfortunate that travel does become something that only the privileged folks, you know, the most privileged get to do. That is a challenge. But also we're talking about domestic travel too. And many people able to that with a car, although with gas prices the way they are, maybe not. And airfare prices only going up because of fuel costs. But, you know, I feel what you're, I understand, but you don't have to keep, I think we got the message. You don't travel all the time. I've traveled, I've been to,
Taina Brown she/hers (30:05.939)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (30:16.787)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (30:30.579)
Yeah, sorry.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (30:34.061)
Pretty much every Caribbean island, I've been to Europe, I have, you know, I've been to Canada, US, Mexico. I've traveled as well. I don't travel as much as I used to. One, my ex-husband was an airline pilot, so I got to fly a lot of places. That helped. Two, my anxiety has only increased every year I've been alive, especially since having a kid. Traveling now is a much more challenging thing for me than it used to be, which helps me appreciate.
Taina Brown she/hers (30:45.183)
Mmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (30:50.644)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (30:57.027)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (30:58.325)
in many ways how traveling is so challenging for many people. used to be like, who cares? It's not a big deal. like, it's terrifying for me, the whole process, which then leads me to the same thing of, I can't sleep for days before I'm gonna go. The travel itself is so exhausting that by the time I get there, I need.
Taina Brown she/hers (31:01.509)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (31:07.814)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (31:18.563)
time to almost recover so that I only get a limited time of actually enjoying because then I'm already starting to worry about the travel back. Like it I don't enjoy travel the way I once did which is a shame because I do love experiencing new places.
Taina Brown she/hers (31:19.985)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (31:23.835)
Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (31:31.735)
meeting new people and getting to see other cultures. And I do miss that. But then there are times when I read about things like Hawaiians saying, quit coming here. We don't want you. And then I think, you know, Hawaiians was once on my bucket list. It's not anymore because I don't, the same thing you're saying, I want to honor people. I think sometimes I wonder how much of my travel is actually wanted, you know?
Taina Brown she/hers (31:40.818)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (31:53.592)
Yeah
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (31:54.519)
challenging too to think about because like I do want to see other parts of the world but I also want to honor places that are like you're not helping our community, you're harming our community. And as much as I try like you to be somebody who is respectful, does my research, thinks is thoughtful about where I'm gonna go and all of that, like I don't want to be...
Taina Brown she/hers (32:03.57)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (32:16.865)
I don't want to add to perceptions or even be a, like, I also don't want to be perceived away because of other people who aren't showing up that way, you know? That's frustrating. So yeah, travel is interesting.
Taina Brown she/hers (32:24.774)
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (32:29.245)
It is, it is, it is. It has become more anxiety and just like, we were just talking with a friend last night about this and I was like, you know, when we were younger, it's like, sure, I'll take Spirit Air and spend $10 for six hour flight and sit in an uncomfortable chair, you know, like all of that. But I think also as you get older, and even if you aren't in a fat body, you don't necessarily have like a disability or anything like that. as you get older, like you're,
body is literally breaking down. So that kind of thing becomes increasingly uncomfortable. And when it becomes also increasingly more expensive to be comfortable when you travel, right? Like it used to, the gap between flying like economy versus like premium economy versus like first class used to not be so wide. And now it's like an economy flight.
from New York to LA, you could probably get for like between three and $600, depending right on the time of year, on how much time between you book and when you actually fly out. But if you try to do that like first class, like you're paying at least two, $3,000. And then like that, and that's just domestic. that doesn't include like that like international flight. And so if you,
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (33:46.079)
at least. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (33:51.021)
Hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (33:56.334)
If you're in a body that requires extra space and extra comfort, right, for you to be able to survive travel, and you need something like comfort or first class because your body requires that, then it's like, well, then you're just fucked.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (34:15.491)
And if you're, and even if that's not the case, just thinking of class and economics, tickets.
Taina Brown she/hers (34:24.518)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (34:24.969)
airlines continue to find ways to make it more expensive while making it seem less expensive, right? So they make it seem like you're paying less, but it's because now they're charging you for things they never used to charge you for. You have to pay for the Wi-Fi. You got to pay for headphones. You got to pay to be able to watch a movie. You to be able to pay to check any bags. You got to pay to eat anything, to have a snack. In some airlines, they don't even give you a drink anymore. You have to pay to have a drink. It is wild. And then all the while,
Taina Brown she/hers (34:36.005)
Yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (34:54.603)
the seats and the space keep their like how many people could cram into this tuna can in the sky? Like it is really awful trying to travel.
Taina Brown she/hers (34:56.591)
Getting smaller, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (35:01.189)
Yeah.
Yeah, not just that, but like with the way that a lot of airlines are forming these like groups, like these flying groups, a lot of different flights that are on separate airlines are getting mashed together. like you might book through Delta, but it's an Air France flight, right? Or you might book through Virgin, but it's a British Airways flight, right? That's operating it. And so you have these like air groups that are like
partner airlines and so your trip to London is part of my trip to France. And so they're overbooking, right? And they're using less equipment to run their operations.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (35:48.579)
And you don't know what airline you're on. Yeah, you don't know who's operating your flight half the time. It's. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (35:53.68)
But it costs more, but it costs more, which it should cost less if that's the case, right? That's logically if you're doing that for efficiency's sake, it should cost less, but it's actually costing more.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (36:01.217)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (36:06.826)
and all the while.
We have a government in the US anyway that's continuing to make air travel less safe. I don't want to talk too much about that because you're about to get on a plate. But it is really frustrating. It's like all told, you start to think, you know, is it worth it? And it leaves more and more of that gap between the haves and have nots. Travel continues to become more and more. And I think that's why you're feeling this need to sort of talk about privilege. I don't know because it does become a status symbol in a way that's really unfortunate.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:32.782)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (36:38.597)
It shouldn't be that only the most elite get to see other parts of the world, because also we know the most elite are typically the ones who are most out of touch with how to actually function in another culture in a way that's honoring everyday people, because they haven't been everyday people in so long, and they're the kind of people who are happy to extract from others. And so they're the ones who are most likely gonna show up in a way that's not how...
Taina Brown she/hers (36:39.813)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:51.989)
Mm hmm. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (37:03.811)
It's not good, right? And then it needs to make America look worse on the world stage. So we people like you to go travel so that you can show up and like say, hey, we're not all shitty. Some of us are decent people who do care. And we want to see other parts of the world, but we also want to honor your culture while we're here.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:05.819)
See you then.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:09.626)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:17.722)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:22.809)
Yeah, yeah. When I worked for the travel company in LA, that was, it was one of the best jobs I ever had. Cause I mean, it's working in travel. was just so much fun. didn't travel often. Like I wasn't part of the team that got to travel a lot. I was more on like the admin operation side of things, but just being in that environment was just like, it was thrilling. Like it was, it was so much fun working there, but it was also.
you really got to see some of the worst of just like humanity. Cause it was, it wasn't like a super high end travel company, but it was, it was not for budget travelers. And, and we just dealt with all kinds of entitled people all the time, all that, like, God. it was, was, some of the people were just awful. They were just so awful. Like we,
There was once where one of our agents was working in an itinerary for a family going to Peru. And if you've never been to Peru and you don't know anything about Peru, Peru is like a culinary hub. It has some of the best food in the world. Like it is known as having some of the best food in the world. that's for people who travel, for people who are into food, like that's not a secret. And this family was traveling to Peru and they
didn't trust the food, so they asked to be taken to McDonald's and Subway every day for their meals. And I was like, you're spending all this money going there, and you want McDonald's and Subway?
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (39:02.263)
Right? And also, why are you trusting the McDonald's and the subway? I've been to McDonald's and subways in other countries and it's not the same as what you get here.
Taina Brown she/hers (39:13.228)
Yeah, so, and that's like a mild, like that's like a mild story. Like some of the things that people would say or do or request and like.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (39:17.179)
for sure.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (39:22.957)
Well, if you want to see the worst of the worst, just watch The Real Housewives, because every season they travel at least once or twice to both domestic and international destinations, and they're an embarrassment. It's an embarrassment. I watch it. You know, we've talked about this before. I hate watch it.
and in a way to make me feel better about myself. Because sometimes I just need that. I'm like, at least I'm not that horrible of a human. And you just watch, you think, my god, you're representing me. And look at how you are behaving. It's just. But they're not exceptions. Because when I've traveled internationally, it never fails that if I'm in a bigger city, especially, or in a place where there are more tourists, Rome or Athens or somewhere, I.
Taina Brown she/hers (39:59.63)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (40:05.139)
I always see at least some Americans showing up where I'm like, my God, you're so, complain. I know Americans love to complain. Americans love to just, just, the ways they complain, it's that McDonald's example is really exactly what I see so often. I'm just like, this isn't what I'm used to, so it's bad, wrong.
Taina Brown she/hers (40:09.208)
Yeah, just stop. Yeah. So like, they're not, I'm not with them. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (40:26.806)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (40:28.323)
and insulting another culture through that process. It's so embarrassing. So don't do that, people.
Taina Brown she/hers (40:30.873)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (40:34.808)
Don't do that. Don't go somewhere else and then say, this is weird. That's not your homeland. That's not your space.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (40:40.771)
And by the way, don't do that domestically. People do that. People will do that where they'll go to someone else's culture, to a restaurant and be like, oh, this food's weird. know, to a friend's house who's serving them a different culture food and talking about it being weird or gross or odd or whatever.
Taina Brown she/hers (40:43.35)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (40:54.263)
Yeah. No, it's not weird. It's just fucking different. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (40:57.603)
which is not what you're used to. Someone else could look at my mashed potatoes and say, that's weird. And I would understand. It is weird. Exactly.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:02.989)
Yeah, it's just different. It's just different. you don't wanna eat it, you don't have to, like you just.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (41:10.147)
That's the language we try to use with my son when we talk about cultures and it feels he doesn't really very often say something's weird, but if you would we would just say well, it's just different. It's different than what we're to. It just makes it different and also trying to bring that empathy piece in of they might think that what you eat is weird, right? It's different. We like to say different because different doesn't say judgment. It's just not what I mean. Weird is a judgmental word. So yeah, being careful.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:20.899)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:27.903)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, it's just different. It's unfamiliar. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And also, just try it. You might like it.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (41:40.161)
That's what I wish my kid would listen to me about. It's a little harder with a 10 year old I've found. But he is starting, I my kid ate seaweed and I'm so proud of him for that. Like he had a classmate. I've never even tried to introduce seaweed because I thought there's not a chance in hell my kid would eat seaweed.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:44.491)
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:55.85)
It's green, why would you eat it?
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (41:57.507)
He goes to this beautifully diverse school and he has Asian friends who bring seaweed in their lunch and they do trading at lunch, I've discovered. So apparently all this food I'm sending him is so he can trade. He talks about what's like Oreos are a pretty hot commodity. So it just depends on what you're doing. And so he discovered both seaweed and Takis because I can't eat spicy food. So I have never once bought Takis or hot food.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:07.373)
No.
You
Taina Brown she/hers (42:19.264)
Like dried seaweed or like seaweed salad.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (42:21.367)
dried seaweed, dried seaweed. So it's a little different. It's got a little, but it's still, I tried it and personally, I don't like it. I think it's too fishy. So I was shocked that he ate it. He's like, mom, I love seaweed. I'm like, what? Who are you? How do you, so that's another benefit of a diverse school is he's got exposure to foods that he would.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:36.716)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (42:37.187)
And he's willing to try them because he's with his friends and he doesn't want to insult his friends because he's a good-hearted person. So I think, you know, when you're traveling, just think what if these were people that were invited into your home? You were invited into their home. They're your friends. How do you want to behave? Some people might change their behaviors because they're just those kind of shitty people. I think a lot of us would say, I wouldn't be like, your food's weird to my friend. Exactly. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:45.005)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:53.346)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (43:01.632)
Yeah, to be more gracious, be more open, be more curious about the world. That's the thing, it's such a pet peeve of mine when people just lack a healthy sense of curiosity about the world. And it's just like, how do you live like that? That just sounds like a miserable existence.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (43:14.145)
Yeah.
It's so small. Well, you know, I am also very privileged, really blessed. I mean, I did not grow up with a lot of financial privilege. We were definitely low middle class, I guess is what you might call it. Single mom, the whole thing.
who had to work a lot of jobs and she was going to school and all of that. But I was able to do an exchange program through my high school and I had to work car washes and bake sales and shit to make it all happen. But I was lucky enough in high school, my very first trip out of the was out of the country. I'd never been on an airplane until I flew to what was then the USSR before the fall of the Soviet Union, literally before like I left and came home and two weeks later, I'm watching all these.
Taina Brown she/hers (44:03.2)
Whoa!
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (44:03.907)
I had been taking pictures in front of being torn down. It was wild. And I always talk about like, it's hard for me now because I was 15, 16 then. And I think about my kid going international at that age and I just, I'm not ready. However, it is the greatest gift I was ever given. That moment, more than anything else in my life.
radically changed how I saw the world, how I showed up, opened my eyes. It is when I began to self identify as a feminist, you know, as a liberal, I always sort of knew my mom voted Democrat and my dad didn't. And like I had some sense of politics. I wasn't super in caring about that stuff. I was young too, but going and seeing
Taina Brown she/hers (44:34.529)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (44:41.26)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (44:48.693)
communism in action at the time. saw bread lines when those still were there in Russia like or the USSR. I saw people living very different lives. got we went to what is now Uzbekistan, which is a very Muslim part of the world and had very different experience there. And then Irkutsk, which is in Siberia and seeing what that was like, just seeing how other parts of the world lived. What?
that haves and have nots life looks like. Also understanding, it was very eye-opening to understanding that not all of the world thinks the US is the greatest thing on earth. We had people telling us to go home. They told us, you damn Americans, get out of here. Like understanding that there were people in the world who.
Taina Brown she/hers (45:15.735)
But
Taina Brown she/hers (45:22.015)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (45:29.751)
people who hate the US for the things that they've done.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (45:31.171)
Not only did they idolize us, but all of that just radically shifted my worldview for the better. And I just think if everyone had that opportunity at an important age where you're starting to understand the world around you to go travel outside of the US and not just to a really privileged place as well, like don't just go to Europe, but going somewhere where you see very different cultures. If you have the ability to give that opportunity to your children, and if it means car washes and fundraisers and everything, but like.
Taina Brown she/hers (45:50.646)
Yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (46:00.511)
I really think that would shift so much of how the world sees each other. It gave me that deep level of empathy about humans. And also, in addition to all those things, just realizing...
We're all fucking people trying, like, our families, trying to make it. The lies I was being told about the Soviet Union and the great bad, whatever, I met the most beautiful humans as well. There were the ones who wanted us to go and hated Americans. But we also met really cool teenagers who just wanted to see our Levi's and trade with us and talk to us about what America was like and tell us about their school. I just like, travel is a gift. It is such a gift. And too many of us
Taina Brown she/hers (46:11.477)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (46:28.832)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (46:36.906)
It is.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (46:39.511)
don't engage in it, and when we do, we show up, we go straight from the hotel to our little privileged paradise, and then go back home and say, we've seen the world, and we haven't. And so yeah, I love travel. I do know that there are differences though in how we show up in the world and how that experiences. So thanks for sharing some of your experiences. Because I think it's good for people to also hear that part of like, yeah, it's not easy for everyone, or it's not as.
Taina Brown she/hers (46:49.856)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (46:58.634)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (47:06.045)
It's not.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (47:06.945)
Like, just the very fact that you're saying, we do a lot of research before we decide where to go. Many people don't necessarily think about that. just say, I just go where I want and I'm going to be treated well because I'm a privileged white American. So, anyway.
Taina Brown she/hers (47:14.25)
have to do that, Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, there have definitely been places that have been obviously, you know, a better experience, more queer friendly, et cetera. Like, and even just for health, like, I remember when we went to Iceland, like, I didn't have to use my asthma pump at all. The air is so clean there. So clean because...
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (47:44.259)
That's all I really want to go. I really want to go there.
Taina Brown she/hers (47:47.603)
The air quality is pristine. So much of the island is just undeveloped. it's so like, yeah. And we walked a lot. And I'm like, I think on the third day I was like, I haven't used my asthma pump at all. And here in the States, I'm on it twice a day at least.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (48:12.833)
Yeah. Well, and you live in a pretty populous area. So I'm sure that that where I'm sure there's air pollution issues everywhere. But, you know, perhaps if you were in Wyoming or Montana, not that you'd want. There's other reasons you may not want to go there based on identity. So there's that issue. But well, anyway, we didn't know what we going to talk about, but I actually think travels really. So we haven't really talked about that before.
Taina Brown she/hers (48:16.585)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (48:20.649)
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (48:26.041)
Yeah, it might be different, yeah. Yeah, it might be different, yeah. Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (48:39.049)
We haven't.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (48:39.851)
Going back to the series we have coming up, everyone, it's gonna be coming out very soon, which we're really excited. Right after Memorial Day, we're doing our Everything is Political series. We've recorded most of those and they're really good. And we didn't record one about travel, but I hope this is the reminder that travel's political too. Where you go, how you behave, what you do.
Taina Brown she/hers (48:54.217)
It is.
Where you spend your money.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (48:58.369)
Yep, I mean, who you are, what access is available to you. All of that is also very political. And so we, you know, we just need to remember that, like how we're engaging with the world and always is a political act.
Taina Brown she/hers (49:12.756)
Yeah, it is, is. And so I'm lucky and privileged to be able to travel and I'm happy about that because I do love to travel. But it is, it is, there are a lot of things to be cognizant of and...
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (49:28.739)
Yeah, it's both. It's both that you have privilege to and your travel can be challenging because of oppression as well, right?
Taina Brown she/hers (49:30.76)
It's both and, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (49:38.322)
Yeah, and unwelcome to, you like you said, like you brought up earlier to the people in that community, in that space. And so it's things to consider.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (49:48.321)
I can't wait to hear how you're trippin' when you get back.
Taina Brown she/hers (49:51.464)
I'll bring you, well was gonna say I'll bring you croissants but then I remembered we don't live in the same place.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (49:55.905)
No, by the time they got to me, they'd be hard. I'll just have to eat my crappy croissant. I mean, listen, actually, we have an incredible French patissiere who is a James Beard award-winning patissiere who's in our city, and we're very blessed. It's expensive as heck. Again, talk about privilege. But probably once a month or so, we will go and I will buy the best quality croissants. He makes something called a Queen Amande. That's this like...
Taina Brown she/hers (50:21.541)
Mmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (50:22.531)
Have you had that? it's like a caramely croissant. my God. Anyway, so I do have access to not direct from the source, but a very high quality desi air. But I appreciate the thought. I will know in spirit a croissant is being eaten for me at least. And that's all that matters.
Taina Brown she/hers (50:26.077)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (50:32.04)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (50:36.351)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (50:41.524)
I will have a croissant for you every day,
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (50:46.101)
my God, please do. I, buttery. mean, truly there is nothing I think that tastes better in the world than a really good croissant. It is flaky, it's buttery, it's chewy. It's like just everything you want in a bite of food. now I want to go get a croissant. Okay, have fun at Paris.
Taina Brown she/hers (50:57.458)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (51:02.356)
Thanks.