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The Grazing Grass Podcast features insights and stories of regenerative farming, specifically emphasizing grass-based livestock management. Our mission is to foster a community where grass farmers can share knowledge and experiences with one another. We delve into their transition to these practices, explore the ins and outs of their operations, and then move into the "Over Grazing" segment, which addresses specific challenges and learning opportunities. The episode rounds off with the "Famous Four" questions, designed to extract valuable wisdom and advice. Join us to gain practical tips and inspiration from the pioneers of regenerative grass farming.
This is the podcast for you if you are trying to answer: What are regenerative farm practices? How to be grassfed? How do I graze other species of livestock? What's are ways to improve pasture and lower costs? What to sell direct to the consumer?
Welcome to the Grazing
Grasses podcast episode 146.
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
Learn how to do financial planning
and incorporate your financial
planning into your grazing management,
Cal: You're listening to the
grazing grass, podcast, sharing
information and stories of
grass-based livestock production
utilizing regenerative practices.
I'm your host, Cal Hardage.
You're growing more than grass.
You're growing a healthier
ecosystem to help your cattle
thrive in their environment.
You're growing your livelihood by
increasing your carrying capacity
and reducing your operating costs.
You're growing stronger communities
and a legacy to last generations.
The grazing management
decisions you make today.
impact everything from the soil beneath
your feet to the community all around you.
That's why the Noble Research
Institute created their Essentials
of Regenerative Grazing course to
teach ranchers like you easy to follow
techniques to quickly assess your forage
production and infrastructure capacity.
In order to begin
grazing more efficiently.
Together, they can help you grow
not only a healthier operation,
but a legacy that lasts.
Learn more on their website at noble.
org slash grazing.
It's n o b l e dot org
forward slash grazing.
On today's episode, we have McKinley
Smoot and Mitch donkey of three Springs
landing cattle, them along with their
co-founder James Gilson started three
Springs land and livestock in Utah.
Where they grass finish grassfed
and grass-finished cattle, as
well as doing pastured chickens.
We talked about how that
works with three people.
And getting started.
And some of those growing pains
when you're getting started.
And we had a growing pain
ourselves on the podcast.
Midway through the episode.
Mitch's mic decided.
I don't know what it decide,
but anyway, we didn't get audio.
So the first half of the podcast.
We're talking to McKinley and Mitch.
And then for the last
half, it's just McKinley.
So that.
The episode's a little choppy in places.
I've tried to edit that and fix that.
And that's completely on me.
The software gave me an error,
but I still thought we were okay.
And ended up losing some, a Mitch's audio.
Really good episode.
I think you'll enjoy it.
Uh, 10 seconds about my farm.
I hate to admit this.
Um, I'm feeding hay to my cows.
You know, I've talked, we were
in a little bit of a drought.
We're kind of wet now.
And I may mention.
I've fed a few bales to them.
So not a great lot, but I'm about to.
Kick it up a gear, and this is
the earliest I have fed hay.
In years.
Um, Some years are like that.
So.
It's where we are on the farm.
10 seconds about the podcast.
I mentioned last week, we're going
to do kind of a podcast refresh.
And I said, mid December, I think we're
going to start that December 1st or.
The first episode in December.
So next week, I still got a couple.
Uh, pieces to fall into place, but
I think we're going to be ready to
do a little bit of a transition.
For you when you're
listening, just know it.
Won't start with.
Welcome to the grazing grass podcast.
We're going to start it
a little bit different.
Same great content and hopefully
a better resource for you.
And speaking of resources, I was
listening to a podcast the other day.
And they have a new
listener resource guide.
So immediately.
I went to their site, signed
up for it and received it.
I looked at it.
I thought, you know, We should do that
for the Grazing Grass Podcast, but I
wanted to do it a little bit different
rather than being something you download
that gets lost on your hard drive or
you see it for a minute and it's gone.
It's a four day email.
Series, I guess would be the right word.
So sign up.
You get an email talks about podcasts.
Next day, you're getting
mail talks about me.
Following day about the community
and resources and the fourth
day, some other resources.
So just to get you more
knowledgeable about the podcast.
You can sign up for it at the
website, go to grazing grass.com.
We have a banner tops.
A new listener resource guide, click
on it and you can sign up for it.
You can also, we will put a
link in our show notes as well.
I know we're calling it the new
listener resource guide, but
I encourage you to go to it.
And click on it, even if
you're, OGN been here a while.
Give you more information
and we'll see how it goes.
I hope it provides value to you.
I'd love to get feedback on
it if it does, if it doesn't.
But it's available.
Um, with that said, let's go
ahead and talk to the McKinley.
For the episode and talk to Mitch
for a little bit at the beginning.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: McKinley
and Mitch, we want to welcome
you to the Grazing Grass Podcast.
We're excited you're here today.
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
Wonderful
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: to be here.
Yeah, really appreciate it.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Well,
to get started, why don't we
start with Mitch right off?
Because Mitch was the
person I talked to first.
Mitch, can you tell us a
little bit about yourself?
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: Yes, sir.
You bet.
So my name is Mitch Dumpke.
I'm living in Salt Lake City, Utah, but
ranch with my partner, McKinley, and
other partner, James, up in the Kams
Valley of Utah, east of Salt Lake Valley.
Yeah, I grew up in Utah, born and raised,
had a few stints elsewhere, but I had a.
10 year run in the tech industry and
product management and we've spent the
last we're in our fourth season now
as Three Springs Land and Livestock.
So just getting our operation going
as a regenerative holistic ranch,
but that's a little bit about me.
I got four young kids,
10, 7, 5 and a year old.
So staying busy with the kiddos,
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Yes, you are.
Yes.
McKinley, tell us a little bit about you.
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
Yeah, I'm McKinley Smoot.
I I grew up on a cattle ranch.
My dad was a holistic resource manager
back in the day, which has now kind
of turned into holistic management.
And so I just kind of grew up
around that being very not paying
attention as kids and teenagers do.
I didn't really notice why.
dad was trying to do was important
anyway, so that was in the early 90s
and he ended up getting out of that
and went, went into real estate,
which was kind of the family business.
And so, right now, that's also what
I do and we just started this cattle
ranch and we, we lease a bunch of
land in, in the Camas Valley and.
My my wife is actually four and a
half months pregnant, which is great.
And
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Congratulations.
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
thank you.
And so we're, we're all just
starting a whole, a whole thing here.
Families,
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650:
starting our herds.
That's right.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: So my question
for both of you, McKinley, it sounds
like you grew up around ranching.
So you may have thought, Hey, this
is something I have some interest in.
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: Yeah.
You know, I had no interest if it oddly
enough, I had, I had no interest in it
until 20, 23 years old and I'm 32 now, so.
I didn't understand it.
Part of the reason my dad did a lot of
custom grazing for different people.
And so there wasn't, which, which
was great, but there wasn't like an
attachment of like, this is our herd,
or this is like these animals, you
know, it's just, it's, it's, it's great,
but it's a little bit less involved.
And so I just didn't understand it.
I didn't care as a teenager, you know,
things I cared about were, you know,
Not that you know, sports and all that.
And so then I I actually stumbled
upon, and my dad told me all
the, all these stories growing up
about working with these people.
I had no idea who they are, but
then I saw Alan Savory's Ted talk.
And
that, that kind of.
Changed the trajectory of my life
pretty dramatically and ended up
getting a credit, becoming an accredited
professional with them about 5, 6
years ago and spending time with, with
the folks there and then also with
Alan himself and, and so we're trying
to incorporate a lot of the holistic
management framework into our operation,
which shouldn't be that difficult, but
it is, has been a challenge over time.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Now, that
was prior to you all starting Three
Springs Land and Cattle, correct?
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
It was.
Yeah.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: so why
did you decide to go on that path
of getting that accreditation?
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: You
know, it's, that's a really good question.
I, at the time I was really getting
into Birdwatching ornithology is this
kind of like spending spending time
looking through binoculars a lot.
And I began to notice that there
were a really dramatically high
on our cattle ranch, high numbers
of birds where the cattle had
been or where they were going to.
And
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, yes.
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: so,
I had just gotten interested in kind of
into ecology and the environment and
just from a recreational standpoint.
And then I all of a sudden had that
through watching that video realize
that I can actually, we, you know,
people can make decisions that directly
impact that it's not just a thing
that we visit or you know, it's like,
oh, I spent some time in nature.
It's like, oh, no, I actually
have any relationship
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh,
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
or, you know, God's creation or,
or however you want to refer to it.
And that's a, that was a
lot more impactful for me.
And so I was like, I have to do this.
And then once I started doing it, it's
like, oh, there's nothing else I can do.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Yeah, down that
rabbit hole, you're, you're lost now.
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
I'm cooked.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650:
Or, or found, I don't know.
Now,
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
both at the same time.
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: It's deep.
He's he's gone.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: one thing when
you say that, I find very interesting.
I just watched the Roots
So Deep documentary.
And, we, we have birds on our land.
You know, I, I know where
we'll have some bobwhite.
The meadowlarks are thick.
The killdeer love to nest on my driveway.
And, in watching that documentary, I
was shocked by how different the bird
populations of grassland birds could
be from one farm to the next farm.
And I really had not considered
that before I watched that.
So watching or doing bird watching
and seeing birds out there.
That's amazing.
And as you, you watch that, it's like,
Oh, wait, everyone else doesn't have
the Mandalarks and the Bob White here.
So that was very interesting
and somewhat eye opening to me.
So I think that's very
interesting, McKinley, that, that
was kind of your path in was.
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
It was, it was, it was It was like
a very small detail in my life.
It wasn't like this big thing.
It was just like, I just drew me to it.
Yeah, it's odd.
It's odd.
The things in life
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, it, it is.
It's amazing that this happens and
somewhere you're doing this now.
Yeah.
Mitch, for you, did you always
think, Hey, I'm going to have
a ranch and raise cattle?
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: You
know, before we started this ranch,
right before we started, I actually
I was a vegan vegetarian trying to
save the planet by not eating meat.
So that's kind of where I,
that's where my head was at.
So, excuse me The third part of
Three Springs Land and Livestock
is our partner, James Gilson.
He was a longtime friend of
mine and I was working in tech.
I was trying to save the
planet by not eating meat.
I was involved, involved more
in environmental interests than.
Agricultural interests.
And he happened to, James happened to hunt
an elk and he offered me some of his elk
meat and I told him, I'm not eating meat.
I'm saving the planet.
And he kind of scoffed at me and
said, no, you can eat good meat.
It's good for the planet.
And I didn't believe him.
And Anyway, he sent me the
TED talk by Alan Savory,
and I sent, I sent him some other video
that I thought was teaching me all the
right things about meat and all, and, and,
and understandably industry, industrial
agriculture does have a lot of detrimental
environmental issues.
And so it's not, I'm not trying to
throw the baby out the bathwater
there, but he showed me that TED talk.
It, it through, it reminded me of some
stuff I heard from Patagonia long ago
about some bison ranches and, and anyway,
it, It got me thinking, and then the real
fortuitous thing, kind of McKinley's bird
moment, was when our partner James went to
look at a a house listing near McKinley,
and McKinley was the listing agent.
So McKinley is showing this
random guy named James.
The house and happens to mention that he
was accredited with the savory Institute.
He didn't realize that James had just been
down the rabbit hole of savory Institute.
And then that connected,
James called me afterward.
Like he had seen an angel, which he was.
If McKinley threw his hair back,
you could see the angelic form
that exists, you know?
But anyway, we kind of chatted
more and more over six months,
got to know each other.
Cause we really didn't,
McKinley didn't know us.
You know, and we didn't know McKinley
and it was kind of a little bit of
a dance, but it felt pretty good.
And we decided let's buy some cattle.
We bought three pair of heads three
pair of cattle in June of 2021.
And the week later we, and we, at the same
time, we bought our first 150 broilers.
And that kind of just
kickstarted the whole thing.
McKinley had posted previously on
Facebook and a community saying,
Hey, I want to try this agriculture
is for generative agriculture.
Did anyone have some land?
And we really got connected to an
amazing family that connected us to
about 150 acres and for the first
three years we had a, we
had a free lease with them
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh,
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: We're
now, we're now paying them a lease.
We want to operate a profitable
business, recognizing all true expenses.
So, anyway, we're doing that now and
it's, it's been a great thing, but
my, my goal was never raising cattle.
I.
I love the open land.
I love where we ranch.
I've gone up here my whole life.
My, you know, everyone's grandfather
or great grandfather was a rancher,
herder, farmer of some kind.
And so I have that same
connection to the land.
But yeah, I came to it more from
a environmental standpoint about
healing landscapes and bringing back
ecological functions to our, To our
soil systems and our grasslands.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: So, very
interesting journeys for both of
you to get to where you are now.
You know, I recall reading that about
you being a vegan on your all's website.
Mitch, how long were you a vegan, Mitch?
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: Oh,
just about a year and a half.
Just enough to be dangerous and
think I was doing the right thing.
No, I, I, I respect people for different
reasons making those decisions.
I think you know, I, I think I was
eating a lot of the wrong kind of meats.
You know, I don't think a fast
food burger is the same thing as
the grass finished beef we have in
our freezer right,
now.
And so, so, you know, I, I think there
was some, some well intention behind that.
And I think there's a lot of people
who, who have those same and different
intentions, but yeah, just, just
probably about a year and a half there.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: which
is an interesting journey and
you know, people come to it for
different reasons and whatever the
reasons are, I cannot knock those.
I think it's great we have
different viewpoints and we're able
to have discussions about them.
I think my wife would
very readily be a vegan.
But she married someone who likes
livestock and raises too many of
them, and we have to eat them.
So, you know, it's
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: that's right.
It's an inventory issue.
Like, sweetheart, we,
I can't, I don't know, what
else are we going to do?
You know, the, that, that vegan
thing is, you know, we actually have,
there's a, we have a great customer.
I call her Vicky the vegan.
And because she, she legitimately
calls herself that she's a
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, yes.
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650:
but she came to our farm.
She came to the park city
farmer's market where we sell.
And she asked about how we raise
our birds and everything else.
And she's like, you know what?
I just haven't eaten
chicken for 10, 20 years.
I can't remember how long because
it never makes me feel good.
said, well, this is how we raise it.
I'm not forcing you to.
And she said, I'll try one.
And then she went home that
night and showed her husband.
She said, look what I got at the market
with you when you were out and about.
And he pulls out his bag.
He says, well, when I was at the
market, I bought a chicken from him too.
So they come home with two chickens
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh yes.
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650:
they were shopping separate.
And anyway, she comes back every year.
And you know, the, the, how it's
raised and the nutritional value
of that meat is so important.
We, We, spend a lot of time
testing our meat every year.
And educating our customers about the
nutrient density of our meat compared to
other to, to compare to other practices
and other ranches not to necessarily
make ourselves better to just make
sure people feel informed about what
they're putting into their body and
what, and the value they're buying.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Yeah.
I think that piece right there, that
connection to where your food comes from
is so important and we're so disconnected.
I mean, I know I get a lot of my food
through the McDonald's drive thru and far
as I know, that's where it comes from.
So it's so important that we,
we go beyond that and we're,
we're, Going out to those farms.
That's what I love about agro tourism.
Getting that connection back to the
land and where our food comes from
and to understand what's going on for
the consumer as well as the farmer.
I think it's really important.
Now we, we talked a little bit about
both your journeys, but you all came
together and Mitch, you mentioned this a
little bit ago, how you all met and then
you decided to start a ranch together.
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: That's right.
And I always think about it, that we kind
of came from three different viewpoints
and McKinley chime in here, please, too.
But, you know, from my perspective,
I came from an from an environmental.
Specifically, James came in from
a nutritional health perspective a
little bit and McKinley, I don't
know how you would define why, how
you came into it a little more from
you had more of the agricultural
background and ranching background.
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
a certain degree.
Yeah.
I don't know.
It's just kind of, I, I, I truly,
I just, I feel like I just meant
that's what I'm supposed to do
at this point.
I mean, I, I, I love the, I love
the environmental standpoint.
And, you know, I think, you know, I,
I feel like we, Mitch and I talked to
so many people who don't think that
there's any money in agriculture.
And that's really concerning,
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, that is.
Yeah.
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
from just like a future parent
and parent standpoint of
like, yeah, there's no future.
And if there's no future in
agriculture, I mean, it's a, it's
problematic 100 years in the future.
And so I think we're, we're kind
of on a mission to, to show like,
no, you can, you can make it and
you don't need to be massive.
It'd
be this massive ranch
or anything like that.
And so, and then also making it work
for our community and our communities.
Highly supportive of us.
I mean, that's the most
inspiring and energizing part,
I think of the whole thing.
And so, yeah, I, I, I don't know
what viewpoint I came through to, to
go, to try to figure out, it just,
there's something pushing me to
do it and I don't know what it is.
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: something
that's strong with us, Cal, though,
is that the fact that where we
ranch is in the Kamas Valley.
It's east of Park City, Utah,
about 25 minutes east of Park City.
And if people have heard
of Park City, it's a.
It's a very well to do.
It's the wealthiest county in Utah.
It's kind of like an Aspen
or a Tahoe or Vail or
something.
And so there's a lot of pressure
on our valley for they always say
the millionaire, the billionaires
push out the millionaires.
And, and, you know, that's nothing wrong
if they want to come here, but it's kind
of about how the land is getting developed
in that process and the land values.
There's some challenges around that.
And we want to give ourselves and
any other producer the opportunity
for their land to stay profitable,
to stay in their family and to
move on to the next generation.
And so we have a lot of real, still
beautiful, open landscapes, and
we want our best to help show the
profitability productivity in the
practices and principles that we follow.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, yeah.
That's that is a, a problem.
So many people are dealing with that
farmland is getting sold and developed
and they're not making any more farmland.
So.
And like you said there, if you're
not profitability, if you're not
profitable, you're not sustainable.
So you've got to have that
profitability mindset so that,
so you can be here in 10 years.
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
Yeah, in our country, it's funny
you say that, if profitability
means the land stays open,
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh yeah.
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
because it, I mean, then the next
generation's interested in it.
It's like, oh, you
made money, you made money doing this.
And it feels like those two things are
directly correlated that whether the
land has declined through practices
or because land values have climbed
and things are still the same.
If the profitability isn't
there, it seems like the land.
At this point in the history of
our country, it just disappears for
an economic engine.
It's very I don't know what, I don't know
what, how to critique that or what to
say about that, but it's kind of scary.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Yeah.
I'm not sure what the solution there is.
Hopefully this podcast helping share
how other people are doing things,
encourage producers, take that next
step on their journey can help some
people be a little bit more profitable.
Do a little bit more sustainable
or regionality practices.
Y'all got together, you started this
farm you bought a few pair of cows
and broilers, you, you, you were able
to find some land to use and did you
have to do anything to get ready or
did you just, were you able to just go
buy some cows and buy get some chicks?
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: Yeah
we you know, we bought some electric
fencing equipment and we had to fix up
a few fences, but that was really it.
And being creative.
And then we, we also, we, we are
indebted to Joel Salatin's Lego handbook
of how to build structure structures.
So we built a Salatin style chicken
tractor and that was about it at the time.
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650:
Yeah, good fences.
The, the land we were
running was historically.
cattle, ran cattle
on it, kind of in a continuous
grainies grazing model.
So like McKinley said, the fences needed
some tightening and a little fixing,
but we I think, I think starting with
six cattle was just a godsend for us
for a few reasons, because we started
in 2021, which in Utah in the Western
United States was a drought year.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: So, you know,
operating at that time was really on
45 acres and to only have six cattle
on 45 acres was really fortuitous.
So we weren't, we weren't
having to sell off anything.
You know, we, we really did tight
daily management, daily moves.
I mean, six cattle, we had them on.
What, McKinley, third acre
or quarter acre paddocks.
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
An 8th and a, and like a 3rd.
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: I mean,
enough to keep them comfortable.
Like
it, they were tiny and we looked silly.
We looked silly at some level moving
this small little herd every single day.
Relative to our community,
that's not the common
practice.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: right,
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: but there's
a good way for us to cut our teeth
and, and figure out a few things and
you know, to swing from that dry year
to then having two of the largest
snowfalls on record which is where we
get most of our precipitation from was.
Kind of a good, good
experience on both sides of the
spectrum.
But yeah, that first year was that first
year was pretty interesting that way.
Just we didn't have, when you have six
cows, you kind of look at each other
and you say, okay, where are we going
to make money for the next two years?
Because those little heifers,
those little bulls aren't going to.
Turn into anything for 24,
26 more months, you know,
like, so how as a startup, do you
make money in the ranching business
and chickens were going to be our
profit center in the short term to
actually get some cashflow going.
And that's really why James pretty
much on his own bought 150 chickens.
And then.
After, after he ordered the chickens, we
had to build, we didn't build a brooder.
We threw them in a shed
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh yes.
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: And then
and we were building the Salton
tractors while they were brooding.
And that is not what I recommend ever.
But that's what we did.
And, you know, I, I don't think this
is a, a unique quote on any ranch,
let alone a startup, but our, our
unofficial slogan is we'll figure it out.
And you know.
That's, that's not a bad thing either.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: You know,
Mitch, I, I think the first time I
raised some brooders, I decided I was
going to do a few pastured poultry.
I think I was needed to move them out
as I was finishing up my Salatin pen so
I could get them moved out, you know?
So I do get that.
Yeah.
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: Yeah,
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: So, and I
think you bring up a great point there.
Cattle's not a quick profit.
You're not going to put some cows
out there and say, Oh, this is
where our income's coming in.
It takes a long time
to get them to market.
So settling on chickens, I
think was a very good move, but
how did that go for you all?
Were you able to, to grow them and
keep them alive and get them to market?
Because that's the first
part before you get to
market, you got to keep them alive.
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: Yeah.
The, the chickens, we, we had,
we've, you know, for that 1st
group we had some predator issues.
We
used just normal chicken wire and
we were in a riparian area and kind
of bordering wilderness area in
Utah, which means there's a lot of.
Skunks and raccoons.
So we had a, we had a predator
event and probably killed 10,
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
The first night.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, no.
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
but then we figured out how to
take care of that and then we
didn't have any loss after that.
So we, we were, but yeah,
no, we had that experience.
It was really the, the, the
following year that we had a
lot more issues with mortality.
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: Yeah.
And, and 150 birds.
This is your question on the market.
I mean, we were 100, we had zero
mortality in the brooder stage.
We, I think we finished
probably 120 birds, McKinley.
Honestly, I can't
remember the exact number.
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
Yeah, something like
that.
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: you
know, we, we slaughtered him in
the field over two days, highly
inefficient, But But we got it done and
120 birds, that's family and friends.
That's pretty easy to move at some level.
Like, you know, we had enough
of a community at that point.
We had enough fans and family that
we, we could sell those pretty quick.
We didn't have to get her.
We didn't have to have it all figured out.
So that first year was a good test run.
Profitability doesn't really
exist, especially with
three partners at 120 birds,
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: No, it doesn't.
Yeah.
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: but
what it did do for us is it Put
us in a place in the community as
pastured poultry producers, which
are few and far between in Utah, let
alone probably, you know, relative to the
number of birds produced in this country.
It's very small, but especially in Utah.
And so.
By us putting us positioned as a
pasture poultry producer especially in
park city, where they are an affluent
community who spend a lot of money
on their health and on healthy food.
We got our name recognition and
a brand established as that.
And so we've been doing
that year over year.
And now all of a sudden, when we want
to sell beef, we already have an email
list of 700 people.
And we've got people asking us every time
we're selling chicken, do you sell beef?
And we just say, well, hold, hold on
and we'll get you there, you know?
And so it was very helpful that we had
established that base through a unique
value proposition as, as poultry.
But McKinley kind of hinted
at it, but the next year we we
decided to grow our operation.
But in growing our operation, we we
actually, well, I guess it was not
the next year, but the year after,
2023, where we had a predation event
of 190 birds out of 240 birds killed by
a skunk, a
baby skunk, a young skunk,
and going into 2024, we barely
wanted to do chickens at all.
Because it
was just so traumatic for a lot of
reasons and not just the overall, our
mortality rate last year on chickens
was 41 percent for a host of reasons.
It was horrible.
We
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, wow.
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650:
out of 1500 birds.
41 percent never made it to a customer.
But we kind of look back and we just
said, our community knows us for our
poultry if anything else, we need to at
least continue that brand recognition
and marketing effort, but our customers
also really want this product where we
already sell out of it too fast as it is.
And so it's kind of been
an interesting place.
A lot of people know us as the
chicken people, even though.
I think we kind of consider ourselves
as equally cattle people, but to our
end consumer, it's more of the chicken.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: And that may
have been their first connection with you.
And then the beef's coming
on a little bit later.
Now, one thing I think I read
on your website, you guys
are non GMO and soy free.
Have
you been doing that with
your chickens the whole time?
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650:
want me to go on this McKinley?
I've, well, maybe one thing
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
no, you got it.
You know it.
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: we can
talk about later, but you know, we've
kind of tried to figure out divisions
of labor a little bit this year.
And so, I spent more time
in the chicken world.
McKinley spent more time
in the cattle world.
We still, we still share chores
occasionally and all that, but it's,
it's been a little helpful, I think,
for us to be able to go a little deeper
and a little more on that journey.
We've always been non GMO.
We had organic our first year,
but we had corn and soy in it.
People love the organic label and the
non GMO label, but then, you know,
our, our fancy friends who like to
buy our food, ask for non, non GMO.
Corn and non soy,
you know, and for many listeners wondering
why it's primarily because of the omega
sixes that are present in corn and soy.
They're not bad for you, but
in the amounts that we consume
them in our American diet,
there's a lot of corn and soy.
And so for us we said, well, let's
try a corn free, soy free feed.
So we bought.
We went all in on organic,
corn free, soy free, non GMO.
I think we had every label you
think someone would want to pay
a premium, and it backfired.
It backfired horribly, and that led to a
lot of the death of our birds last year,
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, yes.
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: because
For a host of reasons, but a couple
of specific reasons would be that the
soy replacement with sesame seed, you
have to be careful with sesame seed
because it's high in phytic acid, which
compromises calcium nutrient absorption.
If your birds don't have
calcium and they're a fast
growing bird, like a Cornish
cross, they could get rickets.
So we had birds in our.
Mobile structures with rickets
essentially unable to move themselves.
So Cal Hill, here we are trying to be
this holistic humane operation, but
somehow in the process, we got our birds
unable to move themselves in the pasture.
And so I kind of jokingly and saddeningly
would call ourselves a mobile CAFO,
where we were just, we, we, it,
it's traumatic to talk about, but
we had to like, Hand move a hundred
birds every day, 24 feet in the field.
It was not our best moment.
It was frustrating because we were trying
to do our best to help our animals.
And I think we over prioritize
the needs of our customer
over the needs of the animal.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, yes.
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: so
this season we went back to
being actually still soy free.
But corn, but having a
local non GMO corn sourced.
We worked with local millers, instead
of buying feed from California.
We bought feed once last year and
it sat and oxidized by the end
of the year and wasn't as good.
This year we said we want fresh
milled feed, no older than 30 days.
So we always had fresh feed
coming in, locally sourced.
More connection to the
growers and millers.
And yeah, our mortality rate was 2.
6 percent this year.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, very good.
Very good.
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: Anyway,
that's a long answer to your question
about being corn free or being
soy free, but that's the context.
I think if you want to be organic,
at least in Utah, you've got to
be buying inputs from Asia, which
for us in our holistic context,
that's not where we want to be.
So it's a little bit of
our background there.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: And Mitch,
really appreciate you sharing that
struggle of 2023 because wherever
a person is on this journey,
Everything's just not peaches and cream.
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: No,
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: You're gonna,
you're gonna, have some, some growing.
I can't even think right word,
but you're going to have some
issues that you're going to have
to overcome, whatever they may be.
You know, I always think back and
I don't even know where I've heard
this, but, and it, It's the, you know,
like when a rocket's headed towards
the spaceships head towards the
moon, you know, they're making minor
adjustments all the time to the course.
Every once in a while they're checking
are we still aimed for the right spot.
That visual for me just really
says it in what we're doing.
We're looking at this angle that's very
complex because as anyone from the Savory
Institute will tell us, you know, as we
look at this whole system, it's not an
easy, simple, We're looking at that and
we're trying to get there, but we're
going to have to make adjustments over
time to figure out how to get there.
So I appreciate you sharing your struggle
because so often we get the highlight
reel on Instagram and it's important that
people realize we do have these struggles.
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: Yeah.
the the we try to be a.
Edutainment on social
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh yes.
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: We
try to be transparent though.
And I think that's one of the
benefits and blessings of our, the
way we're organized is that me,
McKinley and James aren't family.
We're not a fourth generation ranch.
That's maybe in the red right now.
And there's a little bit of
pride and protection to the
family name to not want to admit.
The things that aren't going well.
We show our financials.
If anyone asks, I have a live
spreadsheet of all of the
expenses this year associated with our
poultry, we'll share our, we'll share
our, we'll share our sales with our
customers or anyone who wants to know.
So to us, it's so valid.
It's so valuable to have the
education and transparency in
your operation, because if.
I am so blessed to, we are collectively,
but I've really been going to
the APA conference every year.
The American Pastured
Poultry Producer Association
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, yes.
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: They have an
amazing community forum group online.
It's 50 bucks to be a member or 60 bucks.
And I mean, wow.
Holy cow, I've easily saved
a thousand dollars in, in
saving chickens life and cost.
I mean, it's, it's so valuable.
I'll be speaking at it this
year, actually, about some
of our learnings from 2023.
But the, the community around.
Agriculture is really important
and we just feel really fortunate
to, to have all that support.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, excellent.
On the poultry.
I raised one group before a pasture
poultry and that's all I did, but
actually I have a few chicks in
the brooder right now that I'm
going to do.
It's kind of late in the season,
but I have a little bit better,
better weather than you all do.
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: Yeah.
Yeah.
It snowed yesterday here, so we're
not putting anything out in the field.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Yeah, yeah.
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: One thing to,
I'll tell this to the Atlanta listener
who cares, but Cornish cross don't do
as well at five above 5, 000 feet and we
should have known better.
We're at 6, 500 feet.
So, So, we go, we went freedom
ranger this year and we strongly
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, yes.
And that worked out well for you.
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: Fantastic.
Super resilient to the cold weather,
the warm weather, the fluctuations,
just a little more personality.
So there's, there's a, we
really enjoy the Freedom Ranger.
The meat quality was great.
Took a little longer to get to, to
wait, but but we made up for it in a
lot, in a And the ones that survived.
So,
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Are you
looking at like a 10 week or 12 week
growth period versus eight weeks or
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: yeah,
originally we thought we'd do
10 weeks on the roosters and
11 and 12 weeks on the hens.
We ended up slaughtering all around 11
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh,
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650:
worked out well.
That, that
was a, that was the, our average weight
was about just under four and a half
pounds of dressed weight on whole birds.
So
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Very good.
Did you notice did you notice
when you compare the feed intake
for your Freedom Rangers to feed
intake of your Cornish Cross?
Was there a big difference even
though you're keeping them 1.
5 times as long?
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650:
Yeah, we, we know,
we noticed that you know, it's about 12
to 13 pounds on a Cornish and then for our
freedoms, it was about 17 or 18 pounds per
bird for the life of the bird.
So it does add up.
And.
They're ravenous.
I mean, the challenge for us
is we don't live on the farm.
We don't live on the ranch.
So ideally, you can feed birds
twice in a day, at least.
And that kind of helps them manage
their consumption habits a little bit.
But because we are off farm.
When we go, we give them the feed
in the mid morning and they're
pretty ravenous if they didn't get
enough the night before and we're trying
to avoid the ravenous feeding because
we don't want them to be scratching each
other, injuring each other, creating
blood because then they peck the blood,
then they get the blood, they like
the taste, you know, it's a more, it's
a, it's a cannibalistic world out there.
So, We ended up trying to give them
more than they needed every day.
So our feed management was a little tricky
that way because we don't live on farm.
But yeah, and we don't
do like soaked feed.
Soaked feed would also help with
saving amount of feed you give them.
If you let it ferment for 24 hours,
it unlocks more of the nutrients.
It expands in their
gut with water as well.
So they don't have to
eat as much that way.
But anyway
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Yeah.
Very interesting.
It reminds me of myself at a buffet.
I try to avoid them now,
mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: yeah, yeah.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: McKinley,
we've left you out just a little
bit talking about these chickens.
Let's, let's talk about y'all's cattle.
What, obviously I have to ask what
breed you all went with and how's the
cattle portion of your farm going?
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
You know, the cows are, they're
just a lot less maintenance
than the, than the poultry.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh yes.
Yeah.
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
They're, they're part of
the family at this point.
But yeah, we went with The three we
bought were just kind of conventional.
One was a baldy cow.
One was a, a Simmental Angus mix.
And then the other one
was just a black Angus.
But after talking to, you know, Alan
Williams, he, he made a recommendation
of looking at At least the closest
in our area that was kind of
bonafide was looking at 5L Red Angus.
So we ended up getting some
Red Angus cattle that their
phenotypes kind of a little bit.
On the smaller side of moderate
frame, frame cattle, and they're,
they look like refrigerators
turned on their sides and just
very thrifty, their capacity to
eat grass is just unbelievable.
And so, we ended up going that route
and then we recently just bought some
baldies and black Angus because it's
relatively difficult to find cattle at the
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, yeah.
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
We're really looking to grow the herd.
So we bought, we bought 10
more heifers just recently.
And so, yeah, that was kind of the
breed we, we, we like we're not
really attached to a breed though.
We're more looking at the phenotypes and
you know, at least what we've had success
with for our operation, we just don't
do super well with framey cattle with
moving them every day.
They just don't seem to put on
the weight and the mom seemed
to struggle a little bit more.
Yeah.
And so we, yeah, that's kind of,
that's kind of the route we went,
but we're, we're open to any breed.
If they look and operate the right way,
we don't have any, any qualms with them.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, yeah.
That form and function so much
more important than breed,
you know, but just as my
questions on every episode we
get so wrapped up in breed.
So yeah, very true.
So you all have been
doing this long enough.
You have finished some of your own calves.
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
We have.
Yes,
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650:
How, how did that go?
Because grass did, I assume you grass
finish and grass finish can be a little
tricky till you get it figured out.
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
it can be.
Yeah.
So, we do grass finish.
We, at the moment, our
whole herd is together.
So our finishing
steers, our calves, our heifers,
they're all in the same paddock.
With the exception of getting a bull out
when we don't want him to calve, we calve.
Late spring, early summer.
And so, but yeah, we we take
our cattle and we're very
lucky to live where we live.
The Kamas Valley is.
One of the, in my, it is in my
opinion probably one of the best
places to grass finish cattle.
It's high altitude we have a
lot of water for, for Utah.
That's a unique thing.
We have 2 major rivers that
flow through the valley that are
significant to the whole region.
And so, we finish our cattle around,
usually it's about 28 months.
Thanks.
And we typically are getting, I
mean, this last time we got hanging
weights of around 899 pounds,
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh,
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
and they turned out fabulous.
They're probably
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh,
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
at grazing.
Yeah, we're grading probably choice and
sometimes a little bit higher on certain
things, depending on the cut and yeah, we,
and we can't, we castrate late as well.
We calicrate our bulls in late, late fall.
We'll be, we'll be doing
that at the end of November.
Probably.
So they, they get a little bit bigger,
a little bit faster that way for us.
And we're not really at a size right
now where we can be taking, you know,
You know, heifers that don't meet the
our phenotype criteria but we will
be probably at that point very soon.
And so, we're, we're still
trying to grow the herd.
Right now, from a profitability
standpoint, we need to just grow the herd.
But we've been doing
really well with our meat.
Mitch mentioned before
that we, we get our.
Both our poultry and our beef tested with
I don't know how we got lucky in the state
of Utah, but there's a guy named Stefan
Van Vliet who decided to do metabolomics
and nutrient density testing in meats.
And he's just up the road from us.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh,
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
And so we, we send that to
them and we grade quite high.
And that's something we
take a lot of pride in.
Our Omega 6, Omega 3 ratios
are really low like 1.
2.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh,
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: we,
and then we're averaging higher on, you
know, different phytochemicals and more
minerals in our, in our animals than the,
than conventional you know, feedlot beef.
And so, yeah, no, that's
stuff that it worked.
We're, we're really.
We're tickled by that though.
I mean, and so, but I don't
know, we seem to fall into it.
We kind of took, you know, Alan Williams
has kind of been a mentor for us early on.
And he, you know, gave us a recipe
and we just followed it and it
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, yeah.
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: And
so.
On the grass finishing part because
I had that was something I didn't
even know anyone who did that.
Back in the day when my dad
was in the cattle industry.
And and so it's that was something we
had to really lean on other experts for.
And so we're kind of indebted indebted to.
Other people to figure out how to do that.
Cause it is tricky.
And if, and I don't think we could do
it if we, you know, a lot of guys try
to take them around 20 or 18 months.
It just
doesn't seem to turn out the same way.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Yeah,
get a little bit of age on them.
I have one question I want to ask before
we get to the overgrazing section, and I
know we've already talked longer than when
I usually transition, but you all started
this as Acquaintances, friendship grew
but three partners coming into a farm.
How, what were some things that you
all did to make that successful?
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
Well, we first thing we did is
we created the legal entity.
And honestly, we could probably
improve I don't know, our,
probably the documents about how
that functions a little bit more.
But there, you know, there, it,
it, it's still riding at the moment
on, like, the passion and love for
each other and what we do.
And so, we, you know, we, we all
contributed financially equally, and,
you know, we, at the time it was, you
know, all equally, and we're trying
to make sure that we keep that going
and we're every year we have a, a
long planning sessions, usually 2 days
and we go over kind of our, you know,
the holistic context of each where each
of us is at and make sure everything is,
you know, Functioning what's not working.
And so we have to be frank with each
other occasionally, which is good.
Everybody needs, needs to be that
way with the, with this, with an
operation or with, with a ranch.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
otherwise, you know, if you're not
monitoring what's going on and you
just keep going, eventually, you
know, failure tends to follow you.
And so we tried to really do that.
And we check in with each other
pretty regularly throughout
the year to make sure.
You know, Mitch has
been doing the poultry.
I've been more on the cattle and we got
to make sure that we're all doing okay.
And we cover for each other if we need
a break depending on what's going on.
And so if you know, it
allows us to have vacations.
And so our, you know, our quality of
life is really important to each other
and that making sure that we
spend time with our families.
And if we need to do that, we
can cover for them, et cetera.
The problem with ranching that
people forget is the quality of
life is as integral as the money.
Otherwise, a
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh yes.
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
wouldn't be doing it.
And so, yeah, we're, we're a little
bit nervous on other people's money.
And even though most people say
you should use other people's
money to make money, we're a little
cagey on that idea at the moment.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Yeah.
Because anytime you get shareholders
or VCs in they may be in your ear and
that's going to affect your focus.
So yeah, you gotta be really
tread really careful there.
I'm going to say that I assume
that because no one has offered
to invest in me on this.
So, but That's my assumption.
So, McKinley and Mitch, it's been
great talking to you all, but we need
to go ahead and transition to our
overgrazing section sponsored by Redmond.
Cal: At Redmond, we know that
you thrive when your animals do.
That's why it's essential to fill
the gaps in your herd's nutrition
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cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: And one
thing we've talked about today
was you all getting started.
It's also very challenging To get
started when you've got to grow your
herd, your land base, and keep up with,
you know, healthy grazing management.
So how were you all
able to accomplish that?
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
The thing we tend to run into, for
us is we're not stocked enough.
And in order to get the adequate amount
of animal impact that, you know, that
short duration, high intensity grazing
that, that people talk about you need
to be stocked correctly, in my opinion,
and we are not kind of, as Mitch
mentioned before, we're, you know, the
cattle prices and, you know, growth and
everything like that has limited us.
In our own unique context from being
able to bring in more cattle and a lot
of people are not interested in our local
area and custom grazing just because
the herd has been thinned
pretty dramatically from that
drought and then winters.
And anyway, it's been an
interesting combo that way for us.
But when it comes to, yeah, I mean, we,
we weren't able to overgraze this year.
In fact, our feed got way far ahead of us
and I'm, I'm personally not an advocate.
For, like, saying, okay, if you can't
get everything, you just leave ground
for stockpiled grazing during the winter.
We will get anywhere between
3 and 4 feet of standing snow.
So that if we don't get to our grass,
that means we are actually potentially not
financially viable which at the moment.
We are working to do and
we need that animal impact.
And so when we were smaller, you know, I
honestly just having spoken to Alan and
he is so convicted, I've never met a more
convicted and dedicated person in my life.
Ever.
I, it's kind of a different thing,
but he drew, I spent time with
him in Colorado for five days.
And he just drilled to me and a couple
educators heads that if you do not get
real animal impact and real animal impact
is what he says, like, imagine, You know,
50, 000 bison, African bison, and they're
moving and five grown adult male bison
were trampled to death in that move.
That's the type of animal
impact you need to get to keep.
Your grass is functioning.
I'm like, oh, yeah, we don't do that.
Like, straight up.
We don't do
that.
Except for maybe in one or two places
where we have a shape, a shade structure.
And so, we've minimized overgrazing
completely in our operation.
And for us, overgrazing
means returning too soon.
And so, if you graze a plant, depending
on where you're at in the world, you'll
have a recovery period, or it will go
dormant before then, if it even recovers.
And if you come in within
that recovery period of the
plant, then that's overgrazing.
And so, it's really a function
of time rather than overgrazing.
I mean, it's something we try
to teach people who come out
to the ranch who want tours.
About what we're doing.
A lot of people think, well, if you
could just graze the plant too low,
that's overgrazing, and a lot of people
think that sheep just overgraze, period.
It's like, no, that's,
that's not the case, because.
Historically, you had bison, pronghorn
deer, elk, mule deer, whitetail
deer, all following each other.
And occasionally, plants were definitely
overgrazed, because you probably had
a herd of mule deer following a herd
of three million bison at some point.
Five days later, that's overgrazing,
depending on the time of the year.
And so, It was getting that animal impact.
We, we do ecological monitoring
for different conservation
groups and fascinatingly enough.
A lot of these places are
technically over grazing.
In certain areas, but it's
actually thicker and denser grass.
Then the places that the cattle
avoid, because it's either too
dry or it's too wet, et cetera.
And once they get off, it's actually
a denser stand or sward of grass.
And so for me.
In our own operation, that's something
that we can't even, we can't even
achieve overgrazing because we
don't have the adequate numbers.
And we struggle to get animal
impact over our whole piece of
land that we lease at the moment.
And so
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: McKinley, if,
if I'm understanding you clear, when,
when we talk about your acreage, your
grazing, you don't have enough animals to
do the animal impact you would like to do.
So, rather than do the animal impact
on a portion and leave the other fallow
or fallow for a year, you're still,
you're going to it and grazing it,
but you're doing it without getting
that animal impact you'd like to get.
Oh
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
that that's pretty, that
sums it up in a nutshell.
We are, we, you know, we try to utilize
the whole piece of ground because a lot
of people start saying, well, you didn't
do anything with it and you don't need it.
And
so there, there's, there's a social
context there in this particular value.
It's like, nothing's being done on it.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh yeah.
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
then you don't need it.
It's like, well, we, we do.
There's a future there that we're
trying to achieve.
And so, and in certain areas, we are
achieving that by using stock density
and small paddocks in certain areas.
But the problem we run into is
that because we're grass finishing,
the palatability of the grass.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh yeah.
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: Goes
down dramatically and so we're a little
bit nervous about our finishing ability.
If we don't move fast enough.
On the piece of ground, just
letting the whole thing seed
out or lignify over the winter.
And so, you know, we, we try to our whole
goal is to utilize the ground as much as
we can, because if we're not, if we're
not utilizing our whole ranch in a year.
You know, that's.
that's.
money lost to us,
especially in our context with the winter.
I know some people have a, you know,
they don't have winters like this
and they don't want to pay for hay.
And so there there's different
contexts people need to consider.
But for us, if we're not utilizing
the whole thing, it's truly, we're
losing money, hemorrhaging it.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: And you, you
bring up a really good point there.
You, you've got that converse of
the, the land available that you
need to use or forage out there.
You've got your animal impact, but
the other thing is you're trying
to finish some animals on grass.
So they've got to have, they have a
higher nutritional requirement than
those over mature plants can give them.
So yeah, it's a.
It's a nice balancing act
on a few different points.
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
yes, yes.
And maybe someday in the
future, we might separate our
finishers out from our cattle.
But at the moment.
We want all of our cows in 1 herd
to get as much animal impact as we
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, yeah.
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
And so we'll have this year we,
we, we kind of ranged right?
So.
We were anywhere between three
quarters of an acre to four
acres in each of our moves.
And so, and that wasn't, we, you
know, we didn't do, did do moves every
day, but we found that same thing
happened if we're trying to finish
that the, the grass starts to lignify.
And so, we, we found like, okay, we're
getting incredible animal impact on
half the ranch and not getting any.
For the other half, and then it's winter
and then we got to get them out of here.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: McKinley, it's
time for us to transition to a famous four
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cal_2_10-30-2024_100650:
They're the same four questions
we ask of all of our guests.
Our first question, what's your favorite
grazing grass related book or resource?
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: I'm
pretty biased towards holistic management,
a common sense and what's the full title
the holistic management textbook is,
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, yes.
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: has
a good, is one of my favorites by Alan
savory and Jody butter for the field
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: McKinley,
excellent resource there.
Our second question, what's
your favorite tool for the farm?
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
good question.
We're, we still love our conveniences.
Other than the, the, the feed of the
cattle which are probably my favorite
tool, my, the actual tool it's in
my hands that we use regularly.
I really like the
speedrite energizer remote
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: the
fence on and off from wherever we're at
because I don't like getting shocked.
I'm as
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, I don't
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
to that fence as our cattle are.
And yeah, that's probably the,
my favorite tool that I have in
my, that I can use in my hand.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: That,
that remote can be pretty handy.
And I agree, McKinley, I
do not want to get shocked.
If, if I'm okay with getting shocked
by my fence, my fence isn't hot enough.
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
Here you go.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650:
I don't want to touch it.
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: Yeah.
You want to be knocked
on the ground by that.
Yeah.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Our third
question, what would you tell
someone just getting started?
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
Good question.
Probably for me probably two
things depending on their con I
probably ask them some questions
to understand where they're at in
life.
But first thing would probably,
you know, depending on if they
have another job and they're just
trying to ease into it, start small.
But if that is not an option.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: So,
McKinley , lastly, where can
others find out more about you?
Oh
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
They can find us.
You can find us on Instagram.
We try to be present on Instagram.
We do put things up.
Don't get me wrong, but it's.
So, social media is a weird thing.
You can find us on
Instagram at 3SpringsUtah.
You can also visit our
website at 3SpringsUtah.
com.
We do send out newsletters.
We're trying to become more
consistent and actually have
something worth reading there.
We also put out our
what we have available.
We are really a regional food supplier.
We don't really operate
outside of the state of Utah.
Which I know is a bummer for some people.
We apologize.
It just doesn't fit into our
quality of life right now
of wanting to package and
deal with all that stuff.
And so, but if you want some
fun and silly Instagram.
It's probably the best way to do it.
cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Really appreciate
you coming on and sharing today.
Enjoyed the conversation.
mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650:
Thanks, Cal.
Cal: I really hope you
enjoyed today's conversation.
I know I did.
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