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A fan podcast celebrating (mostly Swedish) RPGs including, but not limited to: Coriolis; Forbidden Lands; Symbaroum; Tales from the Loop; and, Alien.
Hello, and welcome to episode 240 of Effect. Rolling, rolling, rolling. I'm tempted to carry on singing, but I won't. I'm I'm Dave.
Matthew:Thank you. And I'm Matthew. And I'm very relieved that you haven't carried on that whole song. Yeah. Singing.
Matthew:Even though I chose the title.
Dave:Yeah. Singing is probably overstating what it was that I was doing there, actually. So, yeah. Wouldn't wanna confuse it with somebody who can actually sing.
Dave:Anyway, yes.
Matthew:Then again, the westerns have got a long tradition of people who can't necessarily sing singing. I I seem to remember, Lee Van Cleef, was it? Growling out, I was born under a wandering star. I was born under a wanderer. No.
Matthew:No. That that wasn't an invitation, Dave.
Dave:Yes. Sorry.
Matthew:I I have We have got a packed episode, Dave.
Dave:Yes.
Matthew:And, I'm gonna tell you what we're gonna talk about. We've got a new patron who has not only patronized us and come on the Discord, but you have also met him personally. I know. So you can tell us Yeah. All about him in a bit, but we'll say thank you to him.
Matthew:We've got some news to the world of gaming. We've got, of course, as one might expect in the middle of a certain Kickstarter campaign, we may have an old west news. And we've also got an interview with Chris, Vermeeran, who is our evil competitor in in the Kickstarter stakes, running a year 0 Kickstarter at the same time. But a lovely bloke.
Dave:You can't you can't you can't you can't you can't you can't you can't you can't you can't you can't you can't you can't you can't you can't you can't you can't you can't you can't you can't you can't
Dave:you Yeah. You can't call him evil. He owns a German shepherd. So that makes sense.
Matthew:Oh, no. That is true.
Dave:That makes him a very good man in my book. Regardless of whatever the other heinous crimes he may have or may not have been to.
Matthew:However, yes. So, he's a lovely bloke. And he's convinced us both, well, he hasn't quite convinced me yet, but I will be back in his game on the strength of that interview because, he's thought a lot about terminal state, and it is it is better than I thought it was, I think, when we talked about it last time on the Yeah. In the world of gaming.
Dave:Are you looking at it on the on the Kickstarter page? Actually, it doesn't do it justice, I think. Because
Matthew:No. No. Exactly. Yeah.
Dave:Likewise. I was convinced to back it based on the conversation we had with him, because there's a lot of lovely little ideas in there actually. And you know, cyberpunk, you might think it's a bit of an old and worn genres, particularly lately. And we've talked about, you know, some cyberpunk games recently. But this had some nice really nice takes on it.
Dave:And, yes. So I've backed it, and I'm hoping, hoping that he can get get over the line.
Matthew:Yeah. And then I hope we can get over the line, because by the time we've done that, we'll be talking about our next episode and saying goodbye. And that is the full content of this episode.
Dave:'tis. K.
Matthew:So shall we start it with a thank you and a personal description of our new patron, Nils L. I know nothing about you, Nils. I don't even know your surname other than it begins with the letter l. But you've already been an active member of the Discord, which I also like. Everybody who's a patron, if you're not on the Discord, come to the Discord.
Matthew:Join the nicest place on the Internet. But you've also met him in person. Tell me about that.
Dave:Yeah. It was, it was lovely. So, Nils and, Ricard, from
Matthew:Long term patron, Ricard.
Dave:Both from both from Stockholm, had come over to Edinburgh for tabletop Scotland, and came over and said hello, and introduced themselves. It was lovely to meet them in in person. You know, that's what one of the things I really love about conventions. It's getting the opportunity to put a face to the name, and to actually say hello, and have a chat with with some of our lovely, lovely friends and supporters. And it was great, because they they both, signed up for what happened to be the last demo of tales of the old west for the convention.
Dave:And I was really looking forward to it, because of the other players, one of the one of the volunteers at tabletop Scotland, lovely guy called Brian. He came over and talked to me and was trying to find a time where he could join a demo, because he really wanted to. But he was obviously working. We managed to squeeze him in. And then we had 2 other lovely people, Howard and Vicky, who I'm sure I've seen at another convention.
Dave:They both look really familiar, but they're both lovely. And I I had spoken to them beforehand. So I knew I had these 5 people coming for this particular demo. And, you know, running a demo like this with strangers, there's always a little bit of trepidation as a GM. You know, will they like it?
Dave:Will they get involved? Will it be difficult? What kind of people are they? All that kind of stuff. But on this occasion, I knew all 5 were gonna be superb players, and it was gonna be loads of fun.
Dave:And it was great. I really you know, I got to enjoy that demo as a player, and then you know, GM player, rather than a somebody running a demo. It was great. But Niels was lovely, and we had a quite a long chat after the game. He's been working on some some stories that he's kind of feeling.
Dave:He got a bit of mental block on. So we were chatting about that, and trying to give him some advice about how I might, you know, try and deal with some of the issues he was finding. But lovely, lovely, lovely fellow. Ricard, fabulous guy. It was a real delight to meet them both.
Dave:I know they had some potential problems about their flights home because of the weather. So hopefully, Nils, Ricard, if you're listening, I really hope you got home safe and sound without too much faff and bother. And, yeah. It was great. And so delighted to have have Nils on board.
Dave:Lovely lovely guy.
Matthew:Cool. So thank you, Nils, for for backing us and for flying all the way over to, from Stockholm with Ricard simply to meet Dave. That's not a thing I'd do personally, but,
Chris V:I'm not
Matthew:I'm not sure
Dave:it was simply to meet me, frankly. I suspect they had some other things in mind as well, but it was lovely. It was lovely to meet them in person, really, Rose.
Matthew:It is brilliant. So, that's that's our only new backer, but, of course, thank you to all our patrons. And here's me confusing backers and patrons for reasons that will be explained, I'm sure, later on. So, we're on to the world of gaming.
Chris V:We are.
Matthew:And the first item in the world of gaming is one we've already talked about, I think, when it was first announced. But now they've announced actual pre orders, and I think you can when you pre order, you can get a PDF, and that is for space 1999.
Dave:Indeed. Indeed. Yep. We're behind you know, with the, the creative mind of of, our friend, Andy Andy Peregrine behind it. Of, always work for loads of things, But he does quite a lot with Modiphius at the moment.
Matthew:Mhmm.
Dave:Yeah. I mean I mean, nostalgia alert. I mean, you know, red alert nostalgia. Looking at the cover of that book, I just want to get it just for the pub just for the cover because it it it
Matthew:Now you see, I assumed you'd be kind of first in the queue for this because, you know, we've already talked ad nauseam about the eagle being one of your favorite spaceships.
Dave:I absolutely love the eagle. Yeah. It is it is probably my favorite sci fi spaceship of all time, I think. Yeah.
Matthew:So so why are you why are you not there? Why are you not singing it as praises to me? Why haven't you been badging Andy Peregrine through adventures for it? All that sort of stuff. What's going on?
Dave:Well, I did have a little chat with Andy, UK games expert about it. But, I haven't been badgering him. Bunch of reasons. 1, I've got no money. So I'm having to be very careful where I'm where I'm where I'm spending at the moment.
Matthew:Hence the badgering Andy Peregrine about writing adventures for him and then getting money for those adventures.
Dave:Well, number 2 is that having had a really quiet spring, all the projects I was waiting for all came at the same time as did tales of the old west. So at the moment, I'm doing about, you know well, my my my day is basically getting up thinking about gaming, working all day, going to bed thinking about gaming, waking up, say, I don't have time for anything else. So what I didn't wanna do is badger him for something only to either make it make make it really anxiety inducing for me to try and deliver something good, or not deliver something to the standard that I would wanna deliver it. But I would very much love to work on space 999. Absolutely.
Dave:I guess my other thing is, I mean, he's it's been a pretty quick flash to bang from from from what I what I understand from having spoken to Andy about it at UK games expo, which is great. And they've done a great job in doing that. I I I do just wonder a little bit how well the space 1999 universe converts into a role playing game. I haven't looked at the rules. You know, I I so this is just a, you know, like a first off new jerk reaction kind of thing.
Dave:But, so I need to get a look at the book. But, yeah. So I I just wonder a little bit. So I I don't have I don't have the money or the time to pick up too many new games at the moment. So that's the only reason really I'm I'm standing off for now.
Dave:I suspect I will pick it up at some point in the future, but I'm probably not gonna pre order it.
Matthew:I I have a problem with Space 1999, I have to say, Which is, although there were many aspects of it that I loved, loved, loved, loved. There were very many that I just can't get behind and don't enjoy. I mean, I love the actual actors, you know, Martin Landau, Barbara Bain Yeah. The old bloke whose name I've temporarily gone out of my head. Yeah.
Dave:I can picture him.
Matthew:Yeah. Him. Him. Yeah. We can all see him in our mind's eye, but can you remember his name?
Matthew:No. We can't, Dane.
Dave:And the and the woman who played Maya, and then there's And It's not Terry Nash.
Matthew:No. Actually, you see, the woman who played Maya wasn't doing it for me at all. The guy The whole Maya
Dave:I I I need to know now. I'm gonna look this up whilst you're talking.
Matthew:You you look it up.
Dave:Because there there was there's one character who is the who's a eagle pilot, and he has got a close friend who is a a little lady. And I they're both great, and I can't remember either of them. So I'm gonna you sorry. You can't remember.
Matthew:Remembered Space 1999. This
Dave:is what
Matthew:Alice says.
Dave:This is what they listen for. Yeah. Exactly.
Matthew:I gotta say, I would love to have, watched a movie of Space 1999, like a disaster movie. The episodes that I remember are the ones where they're on the moon and things are going wrong on the moon. Yeah. The puncy Star Trek thing where they're flying through a solar system and meeting strange alien cultures, do it for me. Not at all.
Dave:No. The the science behind space 1999 doesn't exist,
Chris V:does it?
Dave:I mean, you have to No. You have to completely hand wave that, what is frankly bullshit. Yeah.
Matthew:And I know that, I know it's very popular here in the UK. I understand it has quite a strong following in America. Obviously, it was designed, although it was made here, it was designed very much with that ITC international audience type thing that, Michael Grade's dad, Lou Grade Lou Grade was always trying to push his shows for transatlantic shows. Yeah. So I but I don't know I don't know whether it's got much pull for role playing game in the continental North America.
Matthew:But no. It sorry. It just doesn't do anything for me as a as an IP. So I don't think I'm gonna back it.
Dave:So the guy you were trying to think of was Barry Morse who played Victor.
Matthew:Barry Morse. That's his Dave. As soon as you say it, I can remember him.
Dave:Yeah. And the 2 I was thinking of was, Zenia Merten, who played Sandra Benes, and Nick Tate, who played Alan Carter. And I particularly
Matthew:Nick Tate was a good looking fellow in the classic 70s mold of good looking fellows.
Dave:I think I wanted to be Nick Tate or, you know, Carter in in Space 1999, because he got to fly all the Eagles.
Matthew:Well, now you can, Dave. All you need to do is
Dave:buy the book. That that is true. It'd be interesting. I mean, as I said, I don't know much about it. Having had a quick look at some of the stuff around it, the the the the the the spreads that they've shown to me had a very star trek
Chris V:adventures kind of vibe in terms of the look and feel
Dave:of what they've done. Trek adventures. And I'm I'm basing this only on this from Star Trek Adventures. And I'm I'm basing this only on seeing, you know, a spread of a page or 2.
Matthew:A few spreads.
Dave:So again again, it's it's a it's an initial reaction. But again, I just kinda wonder whether they could have done something. Change the style significantly to really differentiate it from from some of the other products that they've got going on. But I fully suspect or expect I will purchase that book at some point as I've just
Matthew:Right.
Dave:I'm just not gonna pre order it now. I don't think I'm
Matthew:gonna pre order it.
Dave:There's a little bit in my back. I had saying, why don't you just back it anyway? You got some got some birthday money. But we'll see. We'll see.
Matthew:Well, let's wait and see. You know? Yeah. Let's wait and see. It's not like you've got time to run the game.
Dave:No. Exactly.
Matthew:And and, of course, the fact is really you want somebody else to buy it so that you can be Nick Tate. You don't wanna be the GM. No. So no. You gotta convince somebody else to buy it.
Matthew:I think that's that's my conclusion on this.
Dave:I understand your property. That won't be you on this occasion, I suspect.
Matthew:And it won't be me running it. I can guarantee that. Yeah. You gotta find somebody other than me to buy it. I'm no fool.
Dave:Well, I mean, that that's debatable. But, yeah. Anyway
Matthew:Another thing that I don't think I'll be buying, but only because it's in Swedish is Partizan, a new game from friend of the show, Anders Blixt.
Dave:Yeah. So this is really interesting. Tell
Matthew:me about it, Dave.
Dave:So not having not having heard of it at all, frankly, it came up that he's just had a launch party this last week for for partisan. And it's a game which feels anyway to have a a twilight 2,000 kind of vibe about it. In that it's it's based on or or the backstory to it is based on a real event that happened in the eighties when a Russian submarine was beached or was, ran ashore, just on Sweden. And it caused a big flurry at the time. I can vaguely remember that happening actually.
Dave:I I don't remember the detail, but I do there's a bit of me. You know, the teenage me remembering that that story happening. And in partisan, that story, obviously, because in the real world, I don't remember how it was resolved, but it didn't resolve in any violent conflict. In partisan, it does resolve in violent conflict, and the Warsaw Pact states invade Sweden. And you then play, as the game suggests, a partisan
Matthew:Swedish partisan.
Dave:Fighting against the, you know, the occupying forces of, of of the Eastern Bloc. And, yeah. I just I I love the idea of it. You know, he had the idea originally in the eighties when all this happened. So this is a, you know, we think it took us a long time to get Tales of the Old West at the table.
Dave:This has taken him for 40 years. So, you know, good on him for sticking with it, and getting there in the end, and and and delivering it. So I I have had a a copy sent through. Thanks to the administrations of our lovely new patron, Nils, which is brilliant. I haven't had a chance to download download it yet.
Dave:But I think I suspect it's gonna be in Swedish, which Yes. Which I can't read very much. But, looking at the just some of the images online, again, it looks lovely. It does have a a a kind of I mean, it's interesting. It's got a kind of between twilight 2,000 and war stories sort of the feel to it in terms of the artwork and and the way it's the way it's laid out.
Dave:So I think it it looks lovely. But, yeah, I just sort of wanted to mention it because it was it's a really interesting thing. It's a demonstration of of Anders, desire to get this game to the table eventually, seeing it has taken him literal decades to do it. And, yeah. I just thought it was worth a shout out.
Matthew:And and so again, one for our Swedish listeners in 2 ways. One being it's in Swedish, but also I it's a very local story, and I I expect we're probably not gonna get to see an English translation because because I guess the market won't be there unless unless with, Magnus' book coming out on the Swedish invasion of gaming and other stuff. Yeah. There is a huge demand from the continental US, see it. So American listeners start demanding it of the Swedish publisher, who I have no idea who that is.
Matthew:We'll put a link in the show notes as soon as Dave or Nils gives me a link to put it in the show notes.
Dave:So the
Matthew:because I can't I've Googled for it and I can't find it because Google obviously knows I don't speak Swedish.
Dave:So, the publisher is called Eloso, e l l
Matthew:s Oh, Eloso. Yeah. No. Eloso have done some other stuff. Yeah.
Dave:Yeah. So, I could probably but there's a link here on this thing I'm looking at. I'll see if I can copy that and send it to you on the Discord.
Matthew:I might. Now you said hello so, I might be able to do it.
Dave:But yeah. So, yeah. Interesting. And also, I mean, it's an interesting one, because it it does kind of reflect a little bit of twilight 2000. Because obviously in that game, you've got the US and the and the Swedish setting.
Dave:So it's it's dovetailing a little bit in in with that. I don't know what the rules are like. I don't know what the mechanics are like. But, yeah. I thought it was well worth a shout out.
Dave:And good luck to Anders, and I hope it does really well.
Matthew:Yes. I'm seeing the website now. Actually, a lec expert partisan, it'd be it'd be called.
Dave:Yeah. Although everyone seems to be although everyone seems to be referring to it just as partisan. Although it does you're right. It does have expert above the title. But yeah.
Matthew:And here's all very much, as you say, there's some sample spreads here that remind me very much of War Stories. No, not War Stories.
Dave:Twilight 2000.
Matthew:Well, as you say, actually, a cross between War Stories and Twilight 2000. Yeah. There's
Dave:definitely a a feel a feel there. But, yeah, it's good stuff. I like I like it. If it was in English, I would probably give it give it a punt.
Matthew:Yeah. That's entirely distracted me from the rest of the world of gaming, looking that up. But the other exciting news, which again, like Space 1999, goes back to something we talked about a few episodes ago, and that was Chaosium's basic role playing worlds competition where they said, you know, send us your world and potentially win money. A I think a $10,000 prize fund of which, people who are shortlisted for the final award get all the shortlistees get $500, and they've all been announced. Okay.
Matthew:Cool. Now I think there's now a public vote for, the design challenge.
Dave:Right.
Matthew:To choose the top 3. I am not sure how you're meant to choose. I don't know whether these are already available somewhere, and you can download them, read them, and then choose, or whether I can't see links for them so I'm assuming you get to choose from the, the blurbs that have been written for them. But again, I'll put a link in the show notes. And there are some interesting blurbs that I want to pull out.
Matthew:One of which, is CLEO by Ian Hathaway and, Erika Boro written one of them is one of those is a historian and one's an archaeologist. They've done it in the History and Games Lab which our patron Bruce has attended and talks about in the Discord at the University of Edinburgh, and it's a fun RPG usable for public history and in class education at different levels. In CLEO, you play as a history enthusiast known as a diver who, thanks to advanced AI, can experience the past firsthand. Mhmm. Each of CLEO's scenarios contain quick to explore nodes combining traditional basic role playing, gameplay, and some board gaming style stuff as well.
Matthew:Now that interests me in all sorts of ways, partly because I have a PhD in exploring the past through ludic narratives. But also it reminds me a bit of playing, the experience of playing, oh, god. What's it called? Assassin's Creed, where you dive into the past. Yeah.
Matthew:And also because it's from, you know, friend of friends, the, the Edinburgh Games Lab. Yep. But, yeah, I don't know quite how to get my hands on that. That's that's one that leapt out at me as a thing I'd like to take a deeper look at. But I don't know whether you just have to vote and then hope that they win, and then then it gets published.
Dave:Get the product. Yeah. How how many shortlisted candidates are there?
Matthew:So let me count them. There are 10 shortlisted candidates.
Dave:Right. Cool.
Matthew:They could
Dave:There could be only 1.
Matthew:There could No. I think there can be 3 winners of top prizes.
Dave:Right.
Matthew:3 winners selected by the judges will be announced after the People's voting has closed. That's right. You can vote for your favorite right now. The People's Choice winner will win another £500 whether or not they get any of the major prizes.
Dave:Right.
Matthew:And each of the 3 winners will get another $2,000, not pounds. Sorry.
Dave:Cool.
Matthew:And, Yeah. Yes. So, check out we'll put a link in the show notes, and, you can check those out and see if there's any you want to vote for. That's all I'm gonna say about that, I think. I've run out of other stuff to say.
Dave:Cool. Cool. Yeah. If should watch with interest.
Matthew:Discworld, Dave. Discworld role playing game is coming to Kickstarter soon. Again, I think this is what we've talked about in the past, but actually able to be funded shortly.
Dave:Yes. So, Modiphius.
Matthew:Again?
Dave:Again. They're busy people at Modiphius. So I I had a little chat with, with Danny and a couple of others from Modiphius at Tabletop Scotland, and, talked about this. And I think this is not going to be a 2 d 20 game, unless I'm getting confused with something else. But I think that they were telling me that I don't know what the mechanics are gonna be, but Discworld RPG won't be 2 d 20, which will be a departure, obviously, for for Modiphius.
Dave:But it's an interesting Now
Matthew:that you mentioned that, I feel we did talk about it a bit ages ago, and it looked like quite an interesting much more narrative mechanic, but I honestly can't remember.
Dave:Yeah. So I I don't know any more detail about it, but but I'm I'm pretty I'm pretty sure this is their first RPG departure away from away from 2 d 20, which I think is fine, actually. There's a lot of 2 d 20 games out there now. And, it's it's funny. I've just had kind of a so, yeah.
Dave:There's a lot of years zero engine games out there. And Mhmm. I I, you know, obviously, I love the year zero engine. I mean, I quite like 2 d 20 as a system as well. But there's a bit of me that that feels, maybe we've got enough 2 d 20 games out there.
Dave:We don't really need anymore, or don't need another one quite yet. But I don't feel the same about year 0. Well, naturally enough, because we're in the process of producing another one.
Matthew:There needs to be at least one more, Dave. And I'm
Dave:and I'm not just saying that because we are in the middle of of producing a year 0 game. But yeah, that just kind of That that that insight just struck me, in that moment, and thought I think on the basis of the thought that discworld not being 2 d 20 would be a good thing, and you know, diversify Modiphius's, you know, you know, mechanical approach to role playing games a little bit. Which I think also would be a good thing. Discworld itself, I love the books. I don't think I read all of them.
Dave:But some some of those that I I remember like, you know the original Color of Magic, and Guards Guards, and Mort in particular were absolutely fabulous. How again, similar to Space 1999. How they convert, and how they convert well into a role playing game is another question. For me anyway, I think you know, the the the trouble with taking a, a a, what's the word I'm looking for? An IP like that.
Matthew:An IP.
Dave:Yeah. That wasn't the word I was looking for, but it it'll do.
Matthew:It'll do.
Dave:An IP like that that's got comedy so deeply woven into it as as its current IP. Because that, you know, because of the books. How do you recreate that feel at the table? And do you even try? And if you don't try or you don't succeed, does that mean that Discworld RPG is just another fantasy RPG just set you know in the world of discord.
Dave:And it doesn't really make bring anything new. Or, you know, or how do you, you know, having games that are kind of telling you to be funny and laugh a lot is fine. But you can't force people to be funny and laugh a lot. Particularly not to get to the level of witticism that Terry Pratchett achieved, you know, at his best. So I don't know.
Dave:I don't again, I know nothing else about it, but that my my initial feel is that, while I love Discworld, again, it might be difficult to translate into a role playing game.
Matthew:Yeah. No. I I I we've spoken about it before, and we've agreed, I think, before that you and I, at least, can't really see the attractions of role playing games apart from toon that are designed to be funny. Yeah. And toon was just
Dave:stupid in in a in a good way. Silly.
Matthew:Yes.
Dave:Silly silly stupid. And you you you go into it with that kind of attitude. There's not there is no other thing out there, you know, there is no other thing to do in toon, other than be a cartoon character that gets falls off cliffs and gets squashed with anvils. And it's great. Yeah.
Dave:There there there's no pretense to some other deeper story. Whereas I feel if you're gonna do something in Disworld, at least I would have an urge, even if I tried to to resist it, I would have an urge to that deeper story.
Matthew:And there's a thing I I I kinda have a number of issues with this. So so, yes, there's that thing about and and I'm not talking about fun, because loads of games are funny when you bring them to the table. I I remember our first stream of Mork Boyer, we had we had comments there saying, no. This is gonna be a dark and serious game, and you're laughing too much. You're having too much fun.
Matthew:No. I don't think so. I think it's meant to be funny, or at least fun, if not comedic. And and that's the thing. I feel I've not read the whole oeuvre of Terry Pratchett, but I've read a good number of the books.
Matthew:Yeah. And, of course, part of the reason why they click with people like you and me is they remind us actually of games of I'm gonna say it, generic fantasy role playing games that we have been involved in and some of the silly ideas that we've come up with. I have no idea whether Terry Pratchett himself was a gamer, but I find it hard to believe that he wasn't. Mhmm. And I'm pretty sure that his games of D and D or Rune Quest or whatever it was he was playing kind of in you know, some of the ideas in his books came out of those games.
Matthew:Yeah. That that thing as well of you know, one of the things he does is he uses the fancy setting to take something very real and modern, like taxes or the the the the the postal system Insurance. And kind of satirize them in that way. Yeah. And we all do that.
Matthew:You know? I mean, D and D is full of people, you know, wanting to build a department store, which is an entirely 19th century creation in this proto medieval stuff. We that being a kind of the D and D world is that is the same mishmash. So
Dave:Yeah.
Matthew:Personally, I really don't wanna hear myself say this. But, personally, if I were deciding I want to, you know, profess my love for Discworld in game form, I'd just be writing a 5 e supplement, actually, at the end of it. Yeah. You know? Yeah.
Matthew:I I don't know. I I'd be I'd be interested to see the system and how they handle it and how they make it funny, or fun enough to be funny, maybe is the way I should describe it. Yeah. But but, actually, I think, you know, years ago, there was a GURPS Discworld book.
Dave:Yes.
Matthew:Probably did the job. I mean, GURPS surely feels to me like the least funny system there can be.
Dave:But but,
Matthew:you know, that's kinda what you need. You just need here, you know, here is your sisterized list list of everything that's gone on in in Discworld, where it all fits together, some stat blocks. That'll do. Now go and have fun at the table. The same sort of fun you've always had at the table Mhmm.
Matthew:With a with a slightly Discworld flavor.
Dave:Yeah. I mean, as
Matthew:Ran over.
Dave:Yeah. No. No. I suspect that as with a lot of their stuff, Modiphius will do a banging job, and it will be beautiful game. And it, you know, they they are getting a reputation for doing excellent starter sets.
Dave:So the the dreams of machines starter set is just packed full of stuff. You know, it's quite how they make a profit on it. I don't know. So I suspect it's gonna be beautiful to to hold. Production values will be great.
Dave:And I'd be interested to see what the what the, what the mechanic is. But again, I I for reasons of, like, mentioned earlier, I won't be backing it at this point, but might pick it up, you know, in future perhaps.
Matthew:Now it'll be interesting to look at the Kickstarter as well. Because, again, if I were doing this and if I were a big company or bigger than you and me, Dave, you know, with with money to not money to burn, but, you know, with capital to put behind the Kickstarter rather than purely asking the Kickstarter for the capital we need to publish the book. Yeah. I would be doing a whole bunch of ephemera around this because I reckon there's a whole bunch of, shall we say, un unrequited Discworld, collectors who frankly, I haven't seen enough in the way of, say, plastic figures of Discworld characters. Yeah.
Matthew:And it's not a thing it's not a thing that I buy, but loads of science fiction and fantasy IPs have got some really strong representation in those shops, like Forbidden Planet is nowadays, full of plastic tat. And Yeah. If I had the Discworld license, I'd be looking to, you know, give you dice towers and all sorts of shit that are reference the reference the books in some way, you know, a little plastic figure of death to put on your table
Chris V:when you're
Matthew:making your death saves and stuff like that. I I I think you can have great fun with that. And it might be a big success, actually, if they were to go down that, three-dimensional tat route.
Dave:And they yeah. And they do. I mean, they've, you know, they they have a lot of, you know, expertise and ability in producing, those kind of materials. So just having a quick look at the disc the, the Kickstarter page. So they've got nearly 7,000 followers.
Matthew:Yeah. Knocked out 550 into a cocktail, didn't it?
Dave:Well, I was well, I was pretty pleased with that. Well, 504
Matthew:at the point So was I.
Dave:Launched. Oh, yeah. But we're not we're not Modiphius, are we? And we're we're not fanning, so we can't really compete. But that's I I was very pleased with our yeah.
Dave:So it doesn't say very much. With imagination and some shiny math rocks at your fingertips, your story on the disc awaits. So, yeah, look forward to seeing what what's there when it when it comes out. Cool.
Matthew:So, I Hold on. I've now I'm sure there's some other news apart from Discworld, news for the world of gaming. What have we got in my running order?
Dave:So at Tabletop Scotland, I picked up my copy of Ejian by our pal and friend of the show, Stu Gough, which I seem to be having terrible trouble with pledge managers, as in deleting the email without looking, and therefore not completing pledge managers lately. So, Steve came in to find me and said, I've got your June book. So, I I popped around and and picked it up. Look, I wanted to say that I haven't had a chance to read it yet. I'm really interested to look into his city building rules.
Dave:Because as you know, I'm very much into those kind of things. But I just wanted to say, actually, although there's not a lot of art in the book, it's a it's a lovely, lovely book. It's really nicely put together. It's, it's a a 5. A 5, the smaller one?
Dave:A 5, the smaller one?
Matthew:Well, I I mean, there's a number of smaller sizes in it. I know.
Dave:It's it's kind of
Matthew:And you know, I try and educate you all the times on the various sizes of books. But I
Dave:was thinking that earlier, and I thought I've got no idea actually what size this is. But it's that like slightly smaller than a 4. And it's thick. It's it's a good inch and a half thick. It's got sort of 300 pages of great really good quality paper.
Dave:And it's really nicely laid out. And for for a book that doesn't have a lot lot of arch in it, it's still really engaging and drawing me in. So I just wanted to do a little shout out, and thanks to Stu for for sorting me out with my my my terrible, terrible ability to deal with pledge managers. Yeah. And I'm looking forward to reading that stuff, and when I have read it, I will I will talk about it on the podcast.
Dave:But, yeah. Okay. Give a little little shout out
Matthew:to Stu there,
Dave:and and a big thank you for for sorting me out. So it's a really good looking book. Excellent.
Matthew:And and talking of, conventions, I added another thing in the last minute onto the
Dave:I see.
Matthew:Order. And that is that we are officially going to Dragonmeet. Yep. We will be there, of course, representing,
Dave:Free League.
Matthew:They've officially asked us to go and, run their stand. So we will be there. We may be joined by Anna from Free League. And I am encouraging her to come and join us because I thought, obviously, you need the money because you're a starving artist.
Dave:Yeah. Yes.
Matthew:But if she were to join us, then that would free me up to maybe run some Toto games and, talk about Toto at the, Yeah. Podcast zone or stuff like that. So, I thought I might broach the subject with the podcast zone organizers. Now in anticipation that she might join.
Dave:I think, our our friend, John Dodd seems to be involved in that. So I saw something literally a day or 2 ago about opening up the podcast zone for people to put their names down, you know, and and and go along. So good timing, I think is that. So, now is the time to have a chat with him. Yep.
Matthew:Cool. Cool. That would
Dave:be good. That would be good. Yeah. Excellent. Cool.
Dave:Well, that that was quite a lot of world of gaming.
Matthew:Yeah. That was. And,
Dave:we've
Matthew:got more news still. We've got news from the old west.
Dave:We have news from the old west. Yeehaw. That was it. That's the news from the old west. So,
Matthew:yeah.
Dave:Yeah. So, you know, we're we are now 11 days in. I think maybe 12, possibly. 12 days into the campaign. We are nudging up to the 20,000 stretch goal.
Dave:We've just been like sort of hanging around there for a little while. We obviously we obviously like being, you know, 19,700 and something. Yeah. So we are we are nudging the 20,000 stretch goal. You know, we have hit the doldrums a little bit as as we expected.
Matthew:Mid campaign doldrums. Yeah.
Dave:Mid mid campaign doldrums. But we were saying that actually with all our efforts at the start, and all the great support we got right at the beginning, the really fast start we had, and and things like, you know, Free League and others supporting us online, and then Tabletop Scotland. I think we've held off the doldrums for longer than perhaps we should have done or could have done. But this is an inevitable thing that was gonna happen. So that's fine.
Dave:You know, we've got 18 days to go. You know, I I said to a number of people that if before the campaign someone had said, you know, we'll give you $16 out of bitten their arms off there and then, and have been
Matthew:Yeah.
Dave:Deliriously happy. So, yeah, the whole thing is is more successful than I'd ever kind of dreamed it would be. So yeah. And we've got 80 days
Matthew:to go. Not that we ever dreamed it would be, but because, you know, we have got stretch goals that go all the way up here. So
Dave:Realistically dreamed it would be then. I I
Matthew:Realistically dreamed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As as as good as the best we were dreaming of, I think is possibly the the way to describe it.
Matthew:Yeah. And definitely not, as bad as I I I the day before we opened it, my son, Tom, asked me, you know, what would make me happy about the first day. Mhmm. And I I thought, oh, god. What would make me happy about the first day?
Matthew:Obviously, funding would make me happy the first day, but that's not really very likely. No. So I, you know, I put out some number. I said, you know, I'd be very unhappy if we only had 40 backers by the end of the 1st day. I'd probably be quite happy if we had a 100 backers by the end of the 1st day.
Matthew:And I was I was trying to pull figures out of Finnair for, you know, where is where is where does the happiness happen?
Dave:Yeah.
Matthew:Luckily, we didn't have to worry about that because we crashed our, crashed straight through our target price and got fully funded within 5 hours on the 1st day. So, obviously, I was pretty ecstatic from that point on.
Dave:Absolutely. Same here. And I I and all and all the way along, I was expecting us to hit a brick wall, you know, which Yeah. You know, as I said, we've hit the doldrums now, but going from 8,000 to 19,000, I thought, okay. Where where does this stop?
Dave:Is it gonna stop at 10, 11, 12? You know? And it just and it just kept going. And, yeah. So yeah.
Dave:The the the the yeah. I'm pleased.
Matthew:We we are happy.
Dave:There is nothing. Yeah. There is nothing that can stop me being happy about how we performed.
Matthew:There are other things going on in the background as well. You have been reorganizing the text because, of course, you know Yep. Now we're actually funded. We've gotta think about getting this in
Dave:Actually in order.
Matthew:In the Yeah. So the last read through we'd had, we'd thought about combining 2 of the chapters, and, you've now done that, I think. We've also obviously put in the chapters that you'd we'd already written, but we we'd made them contingent on stretch goals. So
Dave:Yep.
Matthew:They now all fit in. We're looking at the artwork some more. We've got plenty more art to commission. We're about halfway through though on what we've done so far. But we've got more up now specifically to commission for the judges' screen, the GM screen, which was a stretch goal that we have, made.
Matthew:We had thought about doing it before the campaign, but we're slightly warned off it, and I think that was the right advice at the time. But now we're back on there. So yeah. Yeah. We're we're firing on all cylinders, and hopefully, we will keep to our promised target of delivery next May, whatever happens in the next few weeks.
Matthew:And the exciting thing again is the very last day of the campaign, I will be in Essen at the at, the big Essen spiel.
Dave:Cool.
Matthew:So I'm gonna take some leaflets there and see if we can get a last minute boost of German backers at Essen.
Dave:Yeah. Because that's, so that's the Thursday 3rd. Is that right?
Matthew:That starts on Thursday 3rd, which is, I think, the last day of our campaign. I think we finish at around 4 o'clock on that day.
Dave:Let's just hang on. So 1, 2, 3, 4.
Matthew:Counting. That's the thing that our podcast listeners love.
Dave:So, actually, if my if my calculations are correct, we would finish, I think, at oh, no. It is. It's 4 o'clock on 3rd. Yeah. So you've basically got until mid afternoon on 3rd October.
Dave:Yep. Yeah. Cool. Cool. Worth worth a a final push.
Dave:Get some some lovely German backers, to join us at the last minute. That would be very good.
Matthew:Yes. That'd be nice.
Dave:I mean, yeah. I don't know what your plan is for, for Essen, but whether you could get that afternoon, that morning off from the stand.
Matthew:Well, I yeah. I've gotta talk it over with Anna, obviously. Yeah. She's the boss.
Dave:Yep. Yep.
Matthew:But even an hour off at lunch you know, in the morning, an early lunch, as it were, would, let me scout around all the role playing area. I mean, it's it's more of a board game show than a role playing show. But,
Dave:But it's a big show, though. So
Matthew:But it's the biggest show in the world. So Is
Dave:it bigger than Gen Con?
Matthew:Should get 1 or 2 customers. I think it's bigger than Gen Con in terms of, numbers and in terms of, floor space.
Dave:Okay. Cool.
Matthew:Yeah. Well
Dave:well, yeah. You've you've you've got a lot of walking to do in 2 hours then, mate.
Matthew:Yeah. You've never been, have you? You don't quite No.
Dave:I haven't been in a lesson yet. No.
Matthew:Well, we'll see. We'll see what we can do. But, yeah. I might come and fetch a banner from you if I can persuade Anna to let me have for that first morning. Right.
Matthew:Okay. I think I understand. Yeah. I've got a banner sticking up.
Dave:It's worth it's worth asking.
Matthew:Worth. Always worth asking.
Dave:She can only say no.
Matthew:Yeah. She could only say no. Yeah.
Dave:Brilliant.
Matthew:Yeah. I say so I think that's probably all our old west news that's fit to print.
Dave:Yeah. But, just rest assured we are cracking on. And, you know, we are, you know, doing our utmost to deliver on the schedule that we've, we've we've, promised. So, but also we will we will be very good at keeping people informed. So I think we're very very keen.
Dave:And I think some people have already commented on how how good we've been at responding to questions and comments on face on Facebook. On
Matthew:Kickstarter. On the Kickstarter.
Dave:So, and that, you know, that that is a trend that we will continue. So, I mean, communication is something we will be all
Chris V:over.
Matthew:So if you haven't backed it yet, why not? If you're listening to this, unbat. And if your, grandmother hasn't backed it yet
Dave:Why not?
Matthew:Ask her to explain to you why she hasn't. Yeah. Right. Shall we move on?
Dave:Yes.
Matthew:Let's give another Kickstarter campaign a bit of love, shall we, Dave?
Dave:Yep. Let's do that.
Matthew:So we had a great chat with Chris Vermoren about terminal state, and here it is. So we have a special guest in the hammam, today. We've got Chris Vermaerin, who is the creative mind behind, I guess, our rival Kickstarter at the moment, terminal state. Chris, welcome.
Chris V:Hi. Welcome, Chris. Thank you. And don't put me rival, if that's the case, you're you're you almost knocked me out already, but that's alright.
Matthew:No. No. We're we're we're here. Let the the the Kickstarter tide raises all the boats. So, so we're we're here to give you a bit of a message boost.
Chris V:Good.
Matthew:So, Chris, welcome. And as we traditionally do, I'd like as a new guest, I'd like to ask you all about your life in gaming. Where did you start?
Chris V:Oh, wow. So I'm old When people can't see you, so I yep. I started, in middle school like many of us with D and D. I actually have my red dice red box dice still, the original ones that you had, you know, use the crayon to fill in. They're pretty much round now, but it's still not the original.
Chris V:I actually brought some dice over when I started up here in case we wanted to roll anything, but and I found those. I have them in a cigar box of all things. So
Matthew:That's nice.
Chris V:Gaming since, you know, early eighties and started with D and D, did a lot of rifts with friends in the end, and Streetfighter, went through a world of darkness phase like so many of us do. Cyberpunk 2020, obviously, once I got into Cyberpunk. Some shatter run though, the early shatter runs were broken, so that was fun.
Dave:This sounds exact you could be saying my life in gaming. It's always exactly
Matthew:I was I was actually about to say that.
Dave:Yeah. Yeah.
Matthew:Timeline works out. And and Dave is a big well, was was, it has to be said, a big, cyberpunk 2020 fan. I think
Chris V:Yeah.
Matthew:You you've played a bit recently, and you weren't enjoying as much, Dave. Am I right?
Dave:It's Cyberpunk Red. Yeah. It was too it was too combat heavy, and the combats took too long for me. And I I think, you know, the the younger me when I used to run loads and loads of 2020, Kinda love the combat, but it did I don't remember it being as long as it felt in Yeah. The new version.
Dave:So I I I didn't quite enjoy that as much.
Chris V:Yeah. I was not as impressed with RED as I was hoping it was because I really because I love Cyberpunk 20. I mean,
Dave:20 20
Chris V:is huge part of my my childhood.
Dave:Yep. Me too. Yeah.
Matthew:Yep. So we got to we got
Chris V:Shadow Man. Played. Yep.
Matthew:And
Chris V:then then got into, you know, various weird I don't can't really me. You know, TMNT, which is another Playdium adjacent Marvel role playing game, the original one, because we were I was a comic pack fan for a long time as well. And then got into y z e. I got Mutant Year 0 just because it looked cool. And then
Matthew:the Forbidden Lands thing Dave, he
Dave:is you. We are clones because
Chris V:Then I got, Forbidden Lands when the Kickstarter was and the rate main reason I backed that was one of the stretch goals because I I actually checked, you know, so it's 5 years ago, I can't believe it, was to make it OGL. And Uh-huh. I always had I always had the idea that turning a magic system into hacking would make for an easy way to make cyberpunk games, you know, cyberpunk game, you know, more fluid rather than having it this own own subgame like it is in so many things or hand wave in so many other things.
Dave:Yeah.
Chris V:So that was my goal, and it was I I cut back, and I'll just turn it real quick. That was, you know, 4 years ago, and we're finally here with rewriting the game. But if I had released this, it's probably really, like, version 4 by now by how many times I've pretty much rewritten from scratch the the game. Partly free league's fault for, you know, bringing out new dice mechanics all the time that I'm, oh, that's much better idea. Yeah.
Matthew:Yeah. I think we we we have to thank the guy whose idea it was to, get
Dave:Oh, sharp, Matthew. Just You can tell where this conversation is going because Matthew did suggest that idea to them back in the day. Although, I suspect they were going to do it anyway, but Matthew loves to take the credit when he can. So but yes.
Matthew:So yes. So so you wanted that that's a very interesting concept you said. You thought
Chris V:Mhmm.
Matthew:If we could turn a magic system into hacking, we could solve. I'm I'm now gonna overlay my own problem with it. I have a problem with Cyberpunk, which is, somebody's the hacker, and everybody else has to sit around for about half an hour while the hacker does their thing, which all takes a couple of seconds in game time, but sitting around the table seems to take 2 hours just like combat mode.
Dave:Or or you have to find somewhere to hide the hacker when you go into somewhere, so they just wanna get killed by a passing guard. Yeah. And then they and then they kind of sit out of the combat. So yeah.
Matthew:So yeah. No. It it so Yeah.
Chris V:That was the main one of the main things I wanted to solve. Yeah.
Dave:Yeah.
Matthew:So so how tell us, how have you solved this with magic?
Chris V:Well, yeah. Hopefully, I've solved it. Again, it's it's iterated from there. It's not really fully based like it's not like the magic system for Britain lands. That's, you know, where the concept came from.
Chris V:It's come its own thing now, of course. But in terminal state, and that's one of the reasons I call the, ServerPunko now because it's more based on some newer con everyone can hack. Everyone. Okay.
Matthew:Right.
Chris V:Everybody's wired. You you don't have a deck. There was a genetic cyber, you know, deck that was released by a, actually, anarchist group when somebody was developed. So everybody's been genetically nano rewired to be able to hack. So everybody can hack.
Chris V:Everybody can help hack them. So hackers just but the goal you know, the the 4 stats in terminal stages like most y z games. So anybody can shoot just like any other game. Anybody can punch just like any other game. Anybody can try social stuff just like any other game.
Chris V:So anybody can hack, and that's based on the, you know, the tech skill. And then hackers are better at it just like any but, you know, like somebody who in my game, an active is the shooter guys are better at shooting than the normal guy, but anybody can pick up a gun to try and shoot. So and then anybody can help just like any other skill in,
Matthew:you
Chris V:know, a YZ game. You can add on. So not only the hacker is hacking. There is actually, hackathons, you know, the term I I'm using in this to where you you sometimes you require help to do it. You need so many successes, kinda like a pyramid test in some of my games.
Chris V:You need so many success. You need other people to help you to get through this thing, be able to Right. Take take down something major.
Matthew:So that's actually an interesting thing. We'll we'll come back to you, I will say, about that. You talk about this being the cyberpunk of now, not the cyberpunk of 20, 30 years ago. Yep. And, of course, now has changed in that, you know, we see groups like anonymous and, you know, people don't they're not lone hackers anymore, are they?
Matthew:Real real hackers get together what? Get together virtually, at various, in groups. So they do stuff in groups. So that is an interesting concept to add into, cyberpunk. Sorry.
Matthew:But I interrupted. You were about to say, but also
Chris V:don't remember where exactly, but to build off of that, the the cyberpunk and now is hackers also to bring them into the group. So everything is little mesh networks rather than being a there is a large over net over everything, but packing that's virtually impossible. That's where you really have to get in the hacksaw. So when you go, you need to be there, and you have to be on the local network really to so it it you have to hack in person rather than having a hacker sitting at home doing nothing. You have to be there.
Chris V:You have to be there as a group. It brings them more as part of the group. Also, because it's, you know, the future of now since everybody can hack, things have gotten back to where most security things have gotten more analog again. One of the character classes of couriers because there's you know, people deliver things on paper because you can't hack the paper yet. You try and steal it from people.
Chris V:You locks on, you know, most of the big, you know, rich people's houses are gonna be old analog locks because, you know, everybody can hack a lock easier than picking a lock. You know? Things so things have backtracked some just as Okay.
Dave:That's an interesting idea. I like that.
Chris V:A callback, yeah, as well.
Dave:So so I was just gonna say the I like the idea that you've got there of of the, you know, the the everyone can hack, so the hacker becomes a much more important, you know, integral part of the group. Did you wanna say a little bit more about how the hacking actually works then? So if you're if you're in a group and you're trying to hack into something, how, how you do that?
Chris V:It's also yeah. So it made it so I'm using the dice pool, but hacking general I mean, so I'm using step type, but dice hacking actually goes into ends up going into step dice pool.
Dave:Okay.
Chris V:So systems have what I call SSP system security protocol points, and that's their pool of dice. Mhmm. And that with that, they can put some towards their firewall, some towards having a sys ops, some towards you know, they're defensive. So you so you just build it out out of your dice pool instead. And then when you hack in, just like anything else, you only need one success to get in.
Chris V:So you're in, and you can start doing your first action, but then they've got all their their pool left to try and kick you back out, fight you. So once you're in there, it becomes like a a form of combat. So it was the goal. So it's not like it's not hard to get into a system. It's hard to stay there and get anything done because then you're fighting against it, and they can and if you glitch you know, so if you roll a critical fail, basically, you know, in this, then that can up up the system's AI is one of the side effects that can happen.
Chris V:It can call the system the system daemon, which you don't want because those are those can actually have genetic code as well. They're, like, really messed up. So yeah.
Dave:And and and in in those kind of, like, as you call them in 2020, the run, presumably then you can have a run where everyone is running in it. All the characters can run regardless of how good or how bad they are.
Chris V:Yep. And
Dave:so it becomes a different environment where everyone gets to play. Yeah. That's
Chris V:cool. Yeah.
Dave:Yeah. Yeah.
Chris V:Because you got the social guys, but then just like in in the most ways, you got the command thing. So there may be more of a support in general, but you got the command ability. You've got a taunt ability just like any other one. So you they've got abilities that can help everyone as well. And or you can, of course, try and avoid combat altogether and manipulate people into calming down.
Dave:So Doing what you want. Yeah. Exactly.
Matthew:Social hacking as they call it. Yeah. Yeah.
Chris V:Yeah. And hackers, there's actually 3 different types that I did, do a throwback to Chatteron. There's the hijackers are what I'm calling, who are like the rigors. So they focus on more on drones because drones, again, being the future of now are a huge part of the game. Yep.
Chris V:And then there's puppeteers who can actually hack people. Again, since everybody's wired, you can hack into people. And that's where it gets a little more magic y. That's most of the puppeteers apps, as I call it, you know, call them, are based more on the Forbidden Land spells, especially the the mind control y type one. So that that's in the nod back to that.
Chris V:And then all the hackers' apps are named after, like, medially evilly things like sword, you know, as you know, how you attack in is your app for attacking and shield and sentinel and hydra and things like that. So so Mhmm. It's another nod back to the idea of the being based on a fantasy magic system.
Matthew:So So I remember when Forbidden Lands was introduced, of course, we only knew the d 6 dice pool then, and Forbidden Lands effectively introduced magic into the world with d 8 and d tens and d 12.
Chris V:The artifact dice. The art artifact dice. Yeah. Yep.
Matthew:You've kind of turned that on its head, and you said, right. Okay. Meat space, We're doing this with step dice like Blade Runner, like Twilight 2,000. But Cyberspace or whatever you call it in your world is is back in the dice pool system. So now the d six are the magic ones.
Chris V:Yep. Yep.
Matthew:I love that.
Chris V:Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, the the the pools instead of it.
Matthew:So how do you, so I'm just thinking, though, if I'm a, you know, a hacker of some sort, a puppeteer or something like that, And I'm when I do my social hacking, when I'm trying to convince somebody of a thing, I'm rolling step dice. How do I calculate the my magic pool when I'm when I'm getting into cyberspace.
Chris V:Oh, yeah. So you still use your step the the step die for your attacks. The, die pool is really just the SSP, the defensive ones.
Matthew:Oh, right.
Chris V:Yeah. Yeah. So your stuff is just still general. And if you look at the math, you know, I hopefully, I'm factoring it well, but the tables are you know, the step that I the the swing on them was a little different, but, you know, you so the base level of, you know, the base level SSP is should be relatively decent, you know, on you know, if it's an easy system, it should be pretty, you know, a low pool. So it's easy to easier to get into, and they can't do a much as much against you and things like that.
Chris V:So it's pretty Right. Pretty easy to balance the 2 from a base
Matthew:I don't wanna I don't wanna leave that list as a straight end. So people use step dice, systems use dice pool.
Chris V:Correct.
Matthew:Got it. Right. True. Right. Yep.
Matthew:Loving it. Yep. Loving it. Yeah.
Dave:So is is there is there a way in the game that you can be trying to, in the real world, socially influence someone whilst one of your mates in the cyber world is trying to hack into their Oh, yeah. Wetware?
Chris V:Yeah. Yeah. Everybody else can do, you know, whatever they wanna do as normal. You know? Hacking is just basically another form of combat.
Chris V:It's just the, you know Yeah. The tech tech version of combat. It's like you're attacking the systems and you're you're or you're hacking into the cameras or whatever you're doing to you know? There there there are some base level things you can do really easily. And then if you're attacking the actual system stuff to really take control, that's where it gets into the step dye stuff.
Chris V:That's I mean, the that cool stuff when you're going into a system.
Dave:Right. Cool.
Matthew:Cool. Loving it. And, so we've talked a little bit about the sort of characters you can have. You've got different archetypes and and things like that. Mhmm.
Dave:But what's
Matthew:the what is the future of now like? Where when is when is the future of now effectively? How far away from now are we?
Chris V:It's 2089 is where the game is set, and that is actually funnily, I didn't know this when I started I named the game Terminal State years ago when I had the concept. When looking around, there was an old mutant year 0 for the one that was more cyberpunking. I can't what is it? Naya or whatever version of it was one of the older zeroes. There was a module that somebody did called terminal state, which I found later, which is why and it was set in it was set in 20 889.
Chris V:So I'm like, yeah. I'm gonna throw back to that just for the the historical value of that. Oh, cool. So but set in 2089. It's a kind of a point of lighty.
Chris V:There's a term the term it's called terminal state because there's terminals that go up to the near orbital ring. So there's 3 rings that are in circle, which where all the corpse and the rich people live and are used for transport to get around the world.
Dave:Mhmm.
Chris V:Such So there's specific terminals and specific areas. The around the terminals are huge sprawls. The main setting is the hub, which is the man purely man made. It's in since I'm American, it's in, like, Colorado, Wyoming, you know, middle of nowhere. They built this giant, you know, terminal, this huge city, and it covers almost, you know, 3 states.
Chris V:It's not quite, you know, Gibsonian sprawl from, you know, the entire sea eastern seaboard like in a Neuromancer, but it's they're these things are big. So and there's I gotta I can't remember how many there are total now. I think there's, like, 20 or 30 main terminals between the 3 rings, and one's in right on the equator. One's kinda in the northern hemisphere, and one's in the southern hemisphere. Yep.
Chris V:Right.
Matthew:Yeah. The rings, you mean?
Chris V:Active. Yep. Yep. The rings in space, then the terminals go up from so there's, like, terminals in Australia and Brazil and Europe and, you know, Japan. There's a whole history around there.
Chris V:There's not one in New York because New York got nuked in my campaign. So everybody sets everything in New York, so I get I get
Dave:tired of
Matthew:it. Yes. Yeah. I love it.
Chris V:It's where the first terminal was supposed to be built, and then it got hit by a a mass driver attack. And when I was researching about it, there's a nuclear power plant in new low, lower New York. And these terminals, you know, go all the way up, so they're huge. So when I got hit, it fell into nuclear. So New York is hit by a mass driver, asteroid throw, and then it got, you know, a fallout from a nuclear power plant.
Chris V:So it's just New York is a wasteland. Sorry, movers. I wanted wanted to be different. I didn't want so New Jersey is the new New York.
Matthew:No. I just I love it. I I I love that name.
Chris V:Line up sorry. Go ahead. New York is the lineup where
Matthew:I wanted the rings. Gotta have a line, haven't you?
Chris V:It's like Yep. Yep. Yeah. It's like
Dave:you're not too high?
Chris V:So it's like New Jersey is where it has to be. So why is New York not the main one? You kinda made it the sprawl big enough, but I'm like, no. That's more fun.
Matthew:I like that as well that if you like, the main terminal is, in what might otherwise be known as flyover country. Yes. So so you're really changing the polls. And, of course, one of the big things about Cyberpunk is, the classes, and I noticed that you, advertise 4 different types of humanity, but 6 social statuses. Can you unpack those?
Chris V:Okay. Social statuses or humanities or both? What are we?
Matthew:The state social status. I I mean, we might come back to humanity types.
Dave:I'm quite interested in what Fabricant, Ringer, and Neo might be, so we'll come back we'll come to that in a minute.
Matthew:We'll come back to those.
Chris V:Yeah. Social statuses are exile, which is your Mad Maxie, Judge Dreddie, you know, when the when you get sent out into the wastelands because, again, there's
Matthew:a
Chris V:point of light. So anything around here is called the our DMZs between them or well, I I changed it to to so since it's in there, doldrums, spelled with a z at the end.
Dave:Oh, yeah. Okay.
Chris V:And, again, so since Terminal State, I'm a huge front 242 fan as a as a trump 342 song. Doldrums is in there. I'm like, it all ties together. I like weird synchronicity things like that. But so you got the exiles.
Chris V:So that's when you're kicked out. Or if you're born outside of a a archoplex, which are the what is around the main areas around the terminals. So it's the Portman of archaeology and complex. So they're just a big grouping of archaeologists. You're in exile or if you get kicked out for you know, to you can piss off the corpse or you self exile yourself because you don't wanna be involved with them.
Chris V:Then there's which this one's a throwback to 2020, which some people may not like. There's cop as a status. Mhmm.
Matthew:Alright. Yep. Yeah.
Chris V:Yeah. Punk punk is a status. Citizen is a status. Corp and elite. And elite are the, you know, the really rich, and each one comes with their benefit.
Chris V:Social status is the only part of the character creation that you have to roll because it also determines your base reputation, and reputation is what determines your credit. And that's how the all the buying stuff in the game works. There's no money system. It's a purely a credit score, which is the a, b, c, d, from, you know, the step die, and that's based on your reputation. And since that but I did since I know a lot of people might be not wanna make a corp or a cop, you have to roll, but you can downgrade.
Chris V:So you can you don't like what you can. You can you can you can't upgrade, and you can't choose because I don't want people ever ever really wanting to be elite because they get more money to start with, more cred, more rep. But so you can suffer from a COP, you end up in exile.
Dave:Yeah. So
Matthew:Oh, what? Like Mad Max, I guess?
Chris V:Yeah. So yeah. Or and Judge Dredd, you know, when you get sentenced, then I'll send a so and it you could either make it part of your your history, which is kinda cool. So, you know, I rolled a cop, but then I chose to be in exile or was exiled, or you can just decide you were in exile. So adds a little more.
Chris V:I like stuff like that where you can add more flavor. Just in
Matthew:the chance so you've got 66 classes. You roll for whichever, status you are. Is that on a d 6?
Chris V:That is a d 10.
Matthew:Right. And because And m x table. You have too many elites.
Dave:Elites.
Chris V:Yeah. An elite actually is 11 plus, so you have to be, some the your humanity type gives you a bonus to your role. So you have to be either a Neo or a human or a, actually, Neo or a human to even be in the least. You can't be a fabricant or a ringer and start an elite. Yeah.
Matthew:Right. Brilliant. Which brings us neatly to date Absolutely. To know more about
Chris V:this stuff. Perfect. Yep. Perfect question. Yeah.
Chris V:So fabricants are sent Sapient AI. I use Sapient purposely instead of Sentient because, actually, technically correct. And my brother is an English major and I don't have any about it.
Matthew:I need to get geeky about
Dave:it. Yeah. Yeah.
Chris V:Yeah. But it's so if you the one that AI gains sapience, it's it has to legally has to, register its code and get put into a robot body. So that's a fabricant. Right. And robot is almost ever all tech in, this game is nano organic in some way.
Chris V:So they're not exactly so they're not replicants, but so they don't look humanoid on purpose. They look more robotic. But you're not exactly just, you know, wires and gears. There's a little more to it. So
Dave:Yeah. I was gonna say, are they obviously obviously robot in one sense or another? And they are. Yeah.
Chris V:They're yeah. They're made purposefully not to. And now you can, if you're a sentient AI Sapien AI, put yourself in a humanoid body, but that's against the law. So that but that is something you can do as a starting character. If you do that, then then if you get caught, you're in trouble.
Chris V:So it is an option, though. Then there's the human, of course, which is pretty straightforward. Neos are kind of like, meths from, got my brain just turned to all the carbon, kind of,
Matthew:in
Chris V:terms of their their humanoid intelligence is put in the new body. But unlike that, these are cadavers that are either genetically altered to look like you, usually made to look younger because for rich people to put themselves in, or so there's 3 options on those. There's you in a new version of you, you and just another body, like, more like altered carbon. And then what was the I don't even remember the 3rd now. Oh, just a one that looks oh, so it's modified, but it's not, like, exactly like it looks really close to you, but, you know, they started with, you know, it's not fully, you know, you.
Chris V:It's like they try, and it looks you know, you'd pass as you, but it's not like it's a exactly you. So it's like Right. Kinda like the the cheaper version. You went for the the the the the downgrade. And they yeah.
Chris V:It is the cheapest version of them, and cost wise, it's, like, even cheaper than getting a, you know, a just a normal, you know, body that wasn't you. But, yeah, I just thought it would be odd for the rich people to be putting themselves into cadavers.
Matthew:I quite like that.
Chris V:I was
Matthew:actually using Yep. The lower classes effectively. Yeah. Wearing them. Yep.
Matthew:Yeah. I'm all for this.
Chris V:And then it makes a whole industry for, you know, people, you know, bumping people off to, you know, sell the bodies and kinda mad but while I was at, I was in, Max Headroom. Right? They had a whole
Matthew:Yeah.
Chris V:Whole subplot of, you know, the body snatchers. Uh-huh. And then ringers are, genetic clones. They were originally made to build the rings. They were a labor force.
Chris V:They come in 4 casts, which gives them so that's a kinda like a a sub. They have their own little sub bonuses based on the cast that all, hopefully, balance out well. They seem to in place, so I'm putting it. And they just recently, once the last ring was finished, gained independence because they were, you know, basically a labor force servants. They didn't have any rights, and they just gained independence, got their patent from the company that owned it, and now have made a mass mass exodus down to the planet.
Chris V:And, you know, there's so if you're a ringer, there's, you know, 100 to 1,000 of of you out there.
Matthew:Mhmm. So
Chris V:I like
Matthew:it. That's interesting. That Yeah. Kinda like replicants and and Yeah.
Chris V:So they're a little more they're the most replicant y one. Exactly.
Matthew:And then this is this is brilliant. And as as you're talking, I'm flicking through the quick start here, which, am I right in saying this is normally, a few dollars, but if you go to it via the kick start page, then it's,
Chris V:it was. Yeah. Was I put it up for free for a free RPG day
Matthew:Right. Yeah.
Chris V:Here in June. And then I left it for a while, and I was getting close enough to kickstart. I'm like, I'm just gonna so now it's just free.
Matthew:Right. Cool. Yeah.
Chris V:The the the
Matthew:lovely free kick start. 70 odd pages.
Chris V:Yep.
Matthew:Nicely designed. Is it time? And just to have a look at how we're doing. Yeah. It may be time to talk about how you put it together.
Matthew:So you've thought a lot about this world. We've talked about this being like the the 4th or 5th iteration Yeah. Of of this rule set. I'm loving I'm loving the detail in the background of this already feels very believable world Yeah. And kind of interesting concepts that I'd like to play with.
Matthew:I I'm just having a little memory problem on my computer, not my own head. It's just and, I'm gonna quit that. Sorry. I just don't I don't want my computer to crash with Yeah. While we're talking.
Matthew:And so so, yeah, you've got you you've thought all this stuff. How have you gone about turning it into this very nicely designed quick quick start, and I'm
Chris V:Thank you.
Matthew:Shipping. Nicely designed hardback when, when people back it.
Chris V:I don't think so.
Matthew:Who's your team? Tell us about your team.
Chris V:Me. I'm my team. No. I brought my brother's my brother's the editor. I'm the team.
Chris V:I've been a graphics design I was a graphic designer for years, then I did web design. I'm I'm now one of the cogs on management, but I've been it's my I've we got our first Mac in 85, and I've just done graphic design on the side forever. I'd I have a degree in advertising. I don't have a degree in this, but it's what I've always done. It's been my my passion forever is just graphic design.
Chris V:So Right. I've been putting it all together.
Matthew:Graphic design, but the illustrations, where they come from?
Chris V:Those ones in the quick start are stock. A lot of the ones in actually the main book are are stock, but I manipulate them heavily. I think stock, if you used well, is perfectly fine.
Matthew:Mhmm.
Chris V:Use a a lot of people probably know Grand Failure, Tithy, Lewa Thong, I think is the name. We've been out there in a lot of cyberpunk stuff, uses it here and there and stuff. And they've got they've got a lot of art. And, again, if you manipulate it well and I'm going more for field and and exact represent lot of like, all my
Matthew:Yeah.
Chris V:My all my gears all my gears silhouettes because one of the main cons I didn't want this to be a gear gear porn, gear management game like so many cyberpunk games are. So Yeah. My weapon table is litter the modern weapons, I think there's 10, maybe 8. I don't really remember off right off the top of my head. And it's a customization system.
Chris V:There's all kinds of add ons you can add. There's different projectile types to buy so you can build your weapon that you want rather than having this especially in YZE where the the minutiae between the weapons is so minor half the time.
Matthew:Yeah. I
Chris V:mean, t two k, they're trying to rep, you know, replicate them, you know, almost a military strategy game. So there's a lot of weapons, but if you look at them, most of them are very similar.
Matthew:Yeah.
Chris V:So it's not the stats. So when it comes to look and feel, then that's customization that's making it, you know and then that's on you to make decide what it wants to look at. In some way.
Matthew:It's a bit like, feng shui where all the guns pretty much do the same amount of damage. Yeah. Yeah. But if you describe them in gun porn terms, then you get a bit of a bonus. It's I always enjoy it there.
Chris V:Yeah. Doesn't quite have that. But, yeah, there's there's the the base different ones have some different levels, and then your add ons do different stuff. And it's just it's more about the the the feel you want for it than anything else.
Dave:No. I like that. I like I like very much the idea of customizing your own your own gear
Chris V:Yep.
Dave:In that way. Yeah. That's cool.
Chris V:And then it was stretch goals, but, you know, with the way campaign's doing, they're probably gonna end up in there anyway because I like them. There's there's random tables to roll up all these things too. So you can pick your stuff, but then I have a whole random table to just you randomly roll up and see what you get, and you could end up with something fun.
Matthew:So my idea, so at the moment, just a kind of point by system, you too. Oh, no. We're rolling things out with you. So we're still rolling our class and stuff.
Chris V:Yeah. Gear is is a point by for the customization by default, but then the so there are the random tables if you just wanna have fun and see what you get. You don't know what you want your character to have. So
Dave:Yeah. That's cool. Brilliant. I do have a couple of other questions.
Matthew:Go ahead.
Dave:You're talk you're talking about the exiles. So you're saying that, exiles can be born outside the kind of metropolises. Do they then not have the, kinda pre installed,
Chris V:wet Everybody's got that because it's it's genetic. It was like It's genetic. Right. Nanovirus basically that we released out, and so everybody is. And then you're usually dampered on it, you know, until you're old enough.
Chris V:There's so one of the big you know, I said everything in mesh. So the and there's the outer net over everything. There's also what I'm calling the safety net, which most so all kids, you know, you're you're basically blocked from being able to do a lot of stuff until your of age Right. Which, of course, you can you can hack through that if you have a younger character and wanna figure that out.
Dave:If you're clever enough. Yeah.
Chris V:Yeah. No. It's cool. You're not like I have a baby stuck on the Internet. You know?
Chris V:So
Dave:No. I was just wondering whether there was a dynamic there for a character who didn't have that who would then get to play into the into the system. But but, no, that's
Chris V:You can turn it off because the one of the it's an optional thing, but I also have a I like the game dial ideas from a lot of the, is it is it powered by the apocalypse that use the dials? Or
Matthew:Mhmm. I always
Chris V:get that in the blaze of the dark. So there's a surveillance and a survival. Yeah. There's a surveillance and survival dials. So if you took if you turn off your ability to connect, they're gonna know it because you basically they're tracking everybody.
Chris V:And if you go off, they're gonna know where you were, and then you went off. So that raises the surveillance level in the area because somebody just went off and why.
Matthew:Yeah.
Dave:And then
Chris V:as you go out from, you know, the the city areas, the survival level goes up. So making it harder to do, you know, certain things because you're in areas where you can't do them as easily. So so they're optional rules that you don't have to worry about if you don't want to, but they're in there so that if you wanna get a little grittier. Trying to keep it so it's not too gritty like t 2k. I don't know if I could even play without a a BTT.
Chris V:There's so much to it. Yeah. You probably can, but I wanted to so it's playable, you know, without having to worry about that. But there's ability to if you wanna ramp up the grittiness and the, you know, the crunch,
Dave:there are some options. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. The other question I was going to ask, now most cyberpunk games have a concept of humanity, and you kind of lose your humanity the more cyberware you get.
Dave:Do you have something like that in terminal state or not?
Chris V:There is an augment limit.
Dave:I know what answer I want, but let let's see
Chris V:what you're saying. There there is an augment limit, and it's based on act instead of being 1 it's based on 2 of your stats. It's one of those comp it's a it's a derived stat kinda like health in the you know, where it's combined. And you can go up to that without any chance of penalty. And even when you go over, it's not like you automatically then it's it's when you then you have to start rolling.
Chris V:And the more and more you go over, the more chance of, you know, having something where you you're just taxing your system too much is what it because it's based on your your your flex, which is your nervous system basically stat, if you wanna think of it that way, your reflexes. And you're cool is my other so then my my size stats are based or Yeah. Nod backs to Cyberpunk 2022. Their body flex tech and cool and Cool. Cool.
Matthew:Cool. I love those. Yeah.
Chris V:So your cool and your flex make up your augment limit. So you're cool as, you know, your and you sorry. My brain just turned off. So Mhmm. Cool and flex determine your augment limit.
Chris V:And, you know, when you push those to the limit, then you're starting to, you know, tax your your nervous system or your your your your ability to, you know, cognitively, you know, be human. You're losing your cool and
Dave:Yeah.
Chris V:Yeah. Yeah. But it No.
Dave:That's cool because I I I can see why a lot of games have it. I do, I I often find it it takes this is the kind of to to use a favorite phrase of Matthews. It takes some of the fun out of it when you're you're kind of so limited in what you can do
Chris V:Yeah. Yeah.
Dave:Without suddenly becoming, you know, effectively a robot, which, which I don't I don't enjoy. Yeah. The game is supposed to be fun. If you wanna be be shining with lots of cybernetics, then you should be allowed to to shine with lots of cybernetics in my opinion. Yeah.
Chris V:Oh, yeah. You can. Yep. And and not every cybernetic has the same effect because not if you can have as much cyber as you want. If there's if you want a cyber arm, if you're not getting a gain bonus from it, if you're not using one of the cybernetics that give you a bonus, then it's just you have a, you know, have a cyber arm.
Chris V:I don't care. It's just cosmetic. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
Chris V:So Yeah. Cause you know, so it has no game effect, so it has no effect towards your augment limit. It's the ones where you have to buy that actually give you a bonus, give you an effect.
Dave:Nice.
Chris V:Cool. And the term there when you go over your limit is you you you've gone augmental, by the way. Alright. Okay. Yeah.
Chris V:That's cool.
Dave:Excellent. I love your play on words. It's it's cool.
Matthew:I'm just talking about so I I I'm I'm loving, you know, the your stat names and things like that. Can I ask a vital question Mhmm? Which is, what skill do you use to spot somebody creeping up on you?
Chris V:Observe.
Matthew:Observation. Okay. Yeah. Cool.
Chris V:Observe, and it works. Yeah.
Matthew:And how many skills have you gone for? Because, you know, some games have got, like, 16, some have got 12.
Chris V:It's got what
Dave:have you popped up?
Chris V:Doing the I I stole from Blaineer, and it's got 13 because it's got the drive skill separate based on maneuverability of the vehicle just like the 300 mile. Like, that that's brilliant. I'm like, that's that's so brilliant.
Dave:Yeah.
Chris V:I I loved that. So that had to happen. That's like I'm I'm gonna yep. So there's there's 12, 3 for each stat.
Dave:Cool.
Matthew:Well, I think we're out of time, Dave, unless you've got any
Dave:I think I think I think the only the only other thing I'll say is that, that's been a great chat, and it's, it's encouraged me to back it, which I have done about 5 minutes ago. So very good luck to you, Chris. It sounds great. And I do love the look of it. And so, you know, I the old Cyberpunk Cyberpunk Red, you know, doesn't do it for me anymore.
Matthew:I
Dave:am still a big fan of the cyberpunk genre, and, this all sounds great. So, yeah. Good luck. And, Well,
Chris V:thank you.
Dave:Fingers crossed.
Matthew:Let's It seems to be get
Dave:you over the line.
Matthew:A brilliantly realized world, Chris.
Dave:Yes. Absolutely.
Chris V:It's it's funny because when I started it, I was gonna make it setting agnostic
Matthew:Yeah.
Chris V:And just kinda have you know, I just wanted to make a cyberpunk system for y z e. Mhmm. And now the the setting is actually the largest part of the book, partly because every part of it is a 2 page spread. There's 6 districts and 3 sectors in each disc well, not quite. They average out in 3.
Chris V:Some have 2, some have 4, but basically, there's 3 sectors in every one. And every district and every sector has a 2 page spread. So it becomes the large the largest section of the book, that in
Dave:the core section.
Chris V:Because I'm being a graphic designer.
Matthew:All the concepts you've thrown in. I'm loving your fact that there's kind of homages to cyberpunk or associated stuff of the past, but it's all its own thing. It feels it's it feels fresh and new, and that's Yeah.
Dave:It does. Great. Yeah. Yeah.
Chris V:That was that was the hope. That was the hope because yeah. I agree. I think I listened to your one before that Cyborg is probably the best throwback 80 style cyberpunk game out there. It really does.
Chris V:What they were all missing is the punk part of it, and they nailed that. Mhmm. But this I wanted this one, I wanted more of a like, Cyberpunk 2020 where it's kind of a so cyberpunk world is more to it than just the punks. So I wanted everything in there
Dave:Yeah.
Chris V:But still a fresher take on it, hopefully. That was the goal.
Matthew:Well, it it it sounds brilliant. I haven't yet backed, but I probably will before the end of your campaign. So, and I urge our listeners as well. Yeah. I mean, obviously, don't cancel don't cancel your Tales of the Odd West.
Dave:No. No. No. No. No.
Dave:This is a one or the other. Back back both of them.
Chris V:Yeah. Very different. Very different. You can't go wrong with YZ E games. They they this.
Chris V:It's a solid solid system.
Dave:Yeah. Absolutely.
Matthew:That that's brilliant. Thanks very much for coming to talk to us, Chris. It's been a wonderful Thank
Chris V:you for having me.
Dave:Yeah. Thank you. So that was great. It was a real pleasure chatting to Chris and really opened my eyes about terminal state. As I said earlier, I think, talking to him has revealed how much more thought and and and stuff has gone into this game than than is perhaps apparent on the Kickstarter page.
Dave:I backed it. I backed it during the interview, as I said. So, fingers crossed. Looking forward to this funding. So as of recording, which is Sunday 15th, there's 11 days to go.
Dave:It runs till Thursday the September 26th. They are £2,001 short of their target with a 127 backers. So if you're interested, go and have a look, bracket. Let's see if we can get Chris and Terminal State over the line.
Matthew:Yes. This is a game that I think deserves to exist, and I haven't backed it yet, but I will be backing it. And I hope that we can persuade, another few tens of backers. Surely, just tens of backers is all we need to get over the line.
Dave:Yeah.
Matthew:And it looks like a great book. Chris is, as you heard, a graphic designer, so it looks a bit gorgeous already. Yeah. And, it, you know, it'd be a lovely thing to have on your shelf or in your PDF library if you can't afford to have it sent over to from America. Either way, it looks great.
Matthew:Absolutely. Right. Next week, Dave, or next episode, I should say.
Dave:Yes. You had an idea about what we might do next time. So tales of the old west, we, we're we're trying to to to to create the rules and the mechanics to reflect some of the the vagaries and the the variances of of the time. And one area where this is particularly, salient is weapons and guns. So I'm gonna talk a little bit next time about the weapons of the west, and how we've tried to use the rules.
Dave:Your zero engine rules to bring out some of that sense. That that look and feel, of what weapons were really like. And how they how your choice of weapon will actually, you know, give you tactical advantages or disadvantages, depending on what you want your weapon to do, and what you want to do with it.
Matthew:Yeah. And, we I I feel already the next episode is gonna be called You clapping?
Dave:No. That was me shooting my little gun that I took to Table Top Scotland, which so it's a it's a very cheap little plastic gun. But and I and I only got it as a whim, as a as a prop, just for a bit of fun. But then actually
Matthew:You just wanted a toy, Dave. You wanted a toy.
Dave:Well, there is that as well. But actually, at the convention, it was really helpful in me describing how the rules, you know, apply.
Matthew:Oh, double action and single action.
Dave:Exactly. So I was able to demonstrate it really clearly to people who who don't know much about it. So that was actually
Matthew:We need to make another video, Dave. We do. Depending that.
Dave:I think we do. Absolutely. We should do that soon as well.
Matthew:So yeah. What was I gonna say? I was gonna say something very important. And you've just taken me by by shooting a gun at me, you you've taken me to stab me.
Dave:So about about web oh, but also, on our video, I did have on one of our videos, our launch video, I did say, we don't even have a gun. But now we do.
Matthew:It's not it's not it's not
Dave:a real gun, but we have one.
Matthew:Yes. It was the video of, as you say, a little short video we did, just at the last minute, in fact, of our day at ILARP, I said, oh, should we do a just a quick one for when we actually when we actually go live to announce that that we've gone live? And that that was hilarious. Another video is coming out as well, I should say, probably shortly after recording this on the Sunday where we talk about campaigns. But guns guns in year 0 are interesting in that, guns and the different sorts of guns people had in the old west with a time.
Matthew:It's huge modification of guns. We thought it was important to reflect that wide variety of guns, but year zero engine generally isn't great at doing that because there's not much nuance in the stats. Things have got more comp you know, complicated in, in twilight 2000. They've they've taken a an approach to sort of giving you a bit more variance in guns in that way. We didn't wanna go down that route, but we have, I think, created something that is quite variable.
Matthew:But we've already been asked questions that pertain to some of the decisions that we actually made in developing this. Like Yeah. Very early on, we talked about cap and ball pistols and and ammunition, and whether we should reflect that in some sort of way. And for reasons that you will explain next week or in the next episode, Dave, we didn't go down that with for this game. There's no reason why you can't, and we'll, you know, maybe we'll do an earlier period where there's more cap and ball stuff, and we will we'll actually do some official rules around that in one of our future publications.
Matthew:But for this period, we said, no. Actually, let's let's just stick with the with the slightly simpler mechanics, because there's other stuff that people have got to get their head around.
Dave:Yeah. And Yeah. Absolutely.
Matthew:And we'll talk about that next week Yeah. Or next time.
Dave:Indeed. Cool. Well, I think that's probably enough for today. So, it's goodbye from me.
Matthew:And it's goodbye from him.
Chris V:May the icons bless your adventures.
Dave:You have been listening to the Effect podcast presented by Fiction Suit and the RPG Gods. Music stars on a black sea used with permission of freely publishing.