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Becoming an entrepreneur takes grit.
Deciding to do it solo takes courage.
This is 1,000 Routes, the podcast where we explore the stories of solopreneurs who have made the bet on themselves to build a business that serves their life. Every episode you'll hear about the lessons they've learned and the uncommon routes they've taken to stand out in a world that is purposefully trying to commoditize them.
Max Traylor [00:00:00]:
Why make it a four day workweek when it could be a two day workweek? Because you know that works. So it's going to be difficult no matter what, no matter what model you choose, there's going to be pros and cons. So you might as well start with something that is, by design, exactly what you want that makes room for golf or whatever your thing is.
Nick Bennett [00:00:21]:
This is 1000 Routes every episode. A Solopreneur shares how they're building, what they're building, will hear all about how they've made the bet on themselves, the uncommon route that they're taking to build a business that serves their life, and the reality of building a business of one. I'm your host, Nick Bennett. Before we get started, I'm excited to share a new program that I've been working on called Full-Stack Solopreneur in partnership with my friend and legendary entrepreneur, Erica Schneider. Now, unlike other programs, Full-Stack Solopreneur is a hybrid digital program for independent professionals who are too far along for another course to be really all that helpful, but not enough to invest in a private coaching or consulting service. In here, you'll gain access to both the full curriculum and monthly group coaching clinics to teach you how to create a legendary niche offer, how to build a content engine, and how to sell like a human. You can learn more at fullstacksolo.com that's fullstack s o l o dot com. So, dude, the first time that I ever actually heard of you, that I became familiar with you was like five or six months ago.
Nick Bennett [00:01:29]:
And it was when two separate people within like a few days of each other were like, Nick, you need to meet this dude, Max Traylor. And I was like. When the first person said it, I was like, cool, whatever. I'll look him up. Good to know. Maybe one day we'll meet. And then a few days later, it happened again. And I was like, okay, enough's enough.
Nick Bennett [00:01:48]:
Like, I need to meet this dude. Can you give me an introduction and shout out to Danielle Photography? Because she connected. She was like, yeah, I'll connect you. And you and I hit it off pretty quick. And the more I got to know you and the work that you're doing, it's pretty wild, dude. Like, you have a pretty wild portfolio for someone in this space. I mean, you have the Agency Survival Guide, you have the consultant's workbook for doing things better, you have the Consultant Survival Guide, and you have the world's worst book for consultants. What? The tech edition.
Nick Bennett [00:02:21]:
I know that writing is the Most important skill in business. And every day that goes on, I'm more convinced that this is the truth. But I know it's a struggle for a lot of consultants and myself included. Like, I'm a mediocre writer at best. So I'm curious, does writing like this, does this. Is this natural? Does this come natural to you? Have you always been just like a writer? Did the words always flow?
Max Traylor [00:02:46]:
Well, I'm a talker, so my. All of my books are created using video. I pour myself a beer. I have three prompts. The prompt is the story, the analogy, and the rule. And most of the chapters in the book came out that way. So I sit down, I press record, and I just talk for two to four minutes about a topic. And let's say there's 500 words.
Max Traylor [00:03:09]:
I then delete 300 of those 500 words, and you're left with what you see in the book, which is like, just bare bones, no fluff, like, here's what you need to know. Moving on. And then sometimes a cheeky picture that.
Nick Bennett [00:03:23]:
Is an unlock that I've never really considered. Like, I'm also a talker, pretty terrible writer, or at least I don't think I'm a good writer. And it's just kind of a struggle. And so I think that is probably an unlock. That's an unlock for me. And I think a few people will, well, here.
Max Traylor [00:03:40]:
So here's the unlock because I learned this observing Dan Sullivan's book writing process. So he, in his books Sundays, look, there's three ways to read this. Forget the words, just look at the pictures, read the book, or listen to the, like, videos that he does. Like, the audiobook version, which expands and goes into more stories. So I was like, okay, a me as an individual, I'm probably only going to have one of those skills. For me, it's talking. I mean, my drawings suck, so you know how I feel about my drawings. But the.
Max Traylor [00:04:10]:
But the thing is, like, everyone out there, your addressable audience learns and prefers content in different ways. So you back to the whole Katrina thing, Figure out what your skill is. Mine's video. And then what's the process going to be to turn your natural output into visual and written? You need all three. But people spin their wheels and give up because writers try to be writers, and people tell writers to host a podcast or very creative people to build spreadsheets. So, no, this is where those support roles and the process comes in. For independent consultants, that is huge because.
Nick Bennett [00:04:55]:
I have tried to build the skill of writing, like Build the daily writing habit, kind of do all those things. It's something I just like, I want. I don't know why. I just want that to be like a part of the thing that I do. And it's like, it's more of a hobby than it is like a practice or something. I don't know, whatever you want to call it. But I think where a lot of people get. So it's like, I got to write on LinkedIn, I could write a book.
Nick Bennett [00:05:16]:
I got to write this. This thing. I got to write this email. And they struggle to do that. And what you're saying is like, so just do the thing you are good at. Like, technology exists. Just like if you're a talker, Talk and delete 80% of the babbling and rambling and turn that. And use the part that's good and use that to create the thing you're trying to create.
Nick Bennett [00:05:38]:
Like, there's no reason not to.
Max Traylor [00:05:40]:
You know, I've never subscribed to this always be learning concept that works when there's like, the Internet doesn't exist and AI doesn't exist. Because if I. If I said, max, always be learning, when am I going to play golf? When am I going to hang out with my kids? Plus, I could learn absolutely anything under the universe at my fingertips. So it does. It just doesn't work. So I really think you have to be intentional about. These are the things I want to contribute to the world, and I'm going to learn about that stuff. And most of the time, I'm going to learn by doing.
Max Traylor [00:06:10]:
Like, you have kids. If you're not a writer now, you ain't going to be one. You know, like, we're. Our time's up, but we're like, we're not in school anymore. We got real shit to do. And your kid's not sitting there going, dad, I wish you could write better. No, it's like, love me, be around, you know, make some damn money, you know, so find somebody that can turn your videos or whatever your preferred format is, you know, into these things. And I work with a brilliant publishing strategist, Corey Kirby, and he turns my wild ideas and pictures into.
Max Traylor [00:06:45]:
Into books that some people like, to my surprise.
Nick Bennett [00:06:48]:
I love that, man. That's a good. That is probably the. It's like, simple but hard, right? Like, people think, always be learning. People think, be a writer or whatever, but you're like, just leverage your superpower and use that. So. So. Well, you're working on another book.
Nick Bennett [00:07:05]:
Are you working on a Children's book. Or did you make that up? Like, are you on the next book yet?
Max Traylor [00:07:09]:
So I literally started drawing the pictures. The children's book is called Survival Guide for or the. The Child Consultant's Survival Guide, something like that. But the important part is the subtitle. As you know, I, I enjoy my subtitles. A good subtitle. So the subtitle is how to Create More space so we can be Best Friends. Which of course is a reference to step brothers.
Max Traylor [00:07:33]:
Also the reason I can't work with any publishers because no one would let me publish Learnings for Make Benefit, the glorious profession of consulting. In fact, I gave my mom one of the first copies and she called me freaking out. She's like, oh my God, you printed these?
Nick Bennett [00:07:46]:
There's right on the COVID Yeah, self publishing. I'm a fan of self publishing one because you don't have people strip it of what it was supposed to be. But also the Internet exists. Like you're not going on the roadshow here trying to promote the book. You're trying to get the book in front of the people who need it and who want it. I respect the self publishing route.
Max Traylor [00:08:07]:
As you can tell. Nobody's going to publish my stuff. Like it's just too max. And the second they're like, no to something, I'd be like, I fine, I'm just not going to find.
Nick Bennett [00:08:16]:
Who cares.
Max Traylor [00:08:17]:
But recently I learned that someone that is incredibly influential, a mentor of mine, a client, deserves this book that he was working on. He was working on it for years. He has all the ingredients to it. The book never came out. Why? Some political nonsense, whatever the reason is. But don't let people stand in the way of your stuff. And putting out a book like, sure, you can be published one day, it doesn't have to be right now. So publish your own book, right? Show the world what you can do, who you are and then, hey, publisher, my next book.
Max Traylor [00:08:56]:
Do you want to work together? Fine, whatever, dude.
Nick Bennett [00:09:00]:
Make things worth consuming is like the litmus test here. Not make things someone else deems publishable. Selling your intellectual property to somebody else is like, I don't know, I don't. I think you're on the right track. I don't think the litmus test for feeling successful in doing this type, that type of thing is someone else picking up the idea.
Max Traylor [00:09:22]:
So no, I guarantee you, if you have like a nice cover, even if this book was empty, I would feel like a million bucks. I would feel 10 out of 10 just for like having something that said Max Traylor's name on it, which is, like, closet. One of the greatest benefits of having a book, it combats that imposter syndrome. You wake up tired, and you're like, I don't know if I could do it today. Oh, look, here's this book I wrote. Or you're on a call and they're like, explain that to me. And you're like, well, you know, it's chapter seven in my book that I wrote. You know? So it's just like.
Max Traylor [00:09:56]:
And they're like, oh, wow, okay, I should get your book. And you're like, yeah, you should. By the way, I need to send you a new invoice. It's just like, you owe it to yourself. And then people like, I don't know if I could ever write a book. Look at your social posts, look at your emails, record your calls. You've got 13 books, like, a year that you produce. The challenging part is not creating the content.
Max Traylor [00:10:17]:
The challenging part is having the cojones to decide what you're not going to put in the book. That's the problem. That's why I failed four times, is because I was writing this thing and I'd learned something new, and I tried to put it in the book.
Nick Bennett [00:10:32]:
It's like, you draw the line somewhere.
Max Traylor [00:10:34]:
You have to draw the line. Same problem for consultants. They don't draw the line. They say, oh, my client wants me to use AI to make bubble farts on their website. And you're like, dude, you're generating. You're a messaging strategist. Yeah, but now I'm going to do this other thing that my client wants. Now you got to plant your flag.
Max Traylor [00:10:53]:
You say, this is my expertise. This is what I'm going to learn, and this is what I'm going to write a book about.
Nick Bennett [00:10:59]:
At some point, you can't add more things to the book. The book has to be done. It doesn't have to be perfect, right? Like, that's really it. I was just telling my wife the other day, I was like, it is kind of cool that I have, like, hundreds, if not thousands of hours of call recordings. It's just me talking to clients and me doing whatever I'm doing. And this podcast, I have all these recordings. And I was like, whether or not I'm saying anything interesting, it'll be neat for, like, our kids to be my age one day and be like, whoa, this is such a window into dat's life. My friends don't have that with their dad.
Nick Bennett [00:11:32]:
And it's something cool. That, like, I think doing this kind of work and creating in this way, it's like the digital sawdust of it that you're creating this other thing. It's like this little time capsule where this, like, evolution of your life, there.
Max Traylor [00:11:44]:
Is no longer an excuse not to record your calls. You know, the government's recording your calls. You might as well have it for a reference.
Nick Bennett [00:11:51]:
That's true. And then for your kids to watch you yell at clients.
Max Traylor [00:11:54]:
I thought of this the other day. I have, like, a full. I have a. I am a hoarder of notes and tabs, as we were talking about before the show. So my notes, right. So I pulled out this folder from, like, 2020, and I just went through a whole day, eight hours straight, of reaching back out to old opportunities. And I started to search the names in my Google Drive folder. I had every single call recorded.
Max Traylor [00:12:19]:
So there's, like. You could see me as, like, my beard's different. I, like, look different. I don't even think I had a cool camera back then. I was just ripping it on, like, whatever my laptop would pump out. And, yeah, it was. It was just incredible to the evolution to see that stuff. So, yeah, something for your kids.
Max Traylor [00:12:35]:
You know, document the journey.
Nick Bennett [00:12:37]:
Dude, let's. Let's unpack your journey. That's really the thing that I want to know. I'm most curious about. It's no secret that you write about this a lot, and it's, like, pretty abundant. It's apparent in your books. It's no secret that, like, your dad and your grandfather had a pretty massive impact on you and your life. And you wrote something that stuck out to me, so I'm gonna read it back to you.
Nick Bennett [00:13:00]:
And I bridged to two sections. You said, my father wanted to be there for his son. He wanted to live, contribute to the world and be healthy. He didn't go to work like the rest of the dads. My friends rarely saw their fathers. Our family was different. Your dad sounds like a larger than life kind of dude. And most people, most kids would probably roll their eyes at their dad, but you actually listen.
Nick Bennett [00:13:26]:
And so, like, how did all of the lessons that you reference in your writing, like, come into focus for you?
Max Traylor [00:13:35]:
I think it was. I think I absorbed it all subconsciously. I remember I'd watch a lot of movies with my dad, and I think when I was 5 or 6, I could recite the entire Ace Ventura 2. When nature calls from beginning to end, like, blind. I could recite the whole thing. So my dad would take me out of school, like a lot. And we would just go to Disney World. And it was about a two hour drive.
Max Traylor [00:13:59]:
And so during that two hour drive, he was always on the phone. He was always on sales calls. And he'd get off the call and he'd give me some concept and I'm just like, I'm so bored, you know. And at the time, you know, he always says, like, I never thought you were listening, but you're a kid, you're five, you're absorbing everything. This is like learning a second language. But that second language was doing your own thing, putting your personal life first, selling value, just thinking about value to the other person. He would always say, what's in it for me? So whenever I wanted something, he would just say, what's in it for me? And so I was engineered to think with empathy. And I just started asking for things like, hey, dad, you want more of this? That's why I need a scooter.
Max Traylor [00:14:41]:
I was just, I just had this idea, so. And you know, then, then you just find yourself in a position where you have to hunt and kill for yourself. You have to survive. That's what happened to me first when I was running the agency, and then second when I found the thing and, you know, made the decision to go do my own thing. But when you're confronted with life or death, or it wasn't life or death, but you know what I mean, like, if I don't get this deal in the next 30 days, I have to go find another job, which for me was not an option. It forces those primal lessons, like the fight or flight response. I think that's when it came out, is when, like there was no safety net.
Nick Bennett [00:15:23]:
It sounds like the lessons you were picking up, whether subconscious, like they were just kind of being drilled into you over time. And the alternatives that, like the limiting beliefs that people have that allow them to go back and just be like, I'm just going to get another job, for example, you were like, that's just not even a thing. Like, it was never, it was never computed to you that you were like, failure's not an option. Like, I'm like going back to work. Like for someone else, I'm doing this well.
Max Traylor [00:15:50]:
So in that way, I'm very lucky. So I'm a fourth generation. Do your own thing. My grandfather, my great grandfather, all, you know, it was all doing your own thing. So the norm, the comfort, the support in that branch of the family was always to do my own thing. And then when I went to work for somebody, there Was. I kind of, like, saw it. They were like, oh, congratulations.
Max Traylor [00:16:13]:
You know, Whereas, like, normal families were like, get a. Get a job. You know what I mean? And there's like, why are. You know, are you sure you want this job? Are you sure that's right for you? You know, don't you want to just. We try to just get people to pay you and stuff.
Nick Bennett [00:16:26]:
That. You answered it. It was just about how, like, the. You internalized the lessons and failure was never really an option.
Max Traylor [00:16:34]:
No, I'll. I want to rephrase that. Failure is the only option. You're not going to be successful with your first idea, your second idea, your third idea. Some of us never find that idea. The only path to potentially doing something that works. And I. And I don't say successful intentionally.
Max Traylor [00:16:58]:
Something that works is through failure. And so the. The support I got was to fail. You need to find a way to give yourself permission to fail, for the people around you to support you through failure, because your own support of yourself won't be enough.
Nick Bennett [00:17:14]:
Giving up. I think I'm conflating failure and giving up. And what you just told me is that, like, the failure is the. Is the path to get you to where you're going into something that works. And something that works might work for now, but it might not work later. But the whole point is that you don't give up.
Max Traylor [00:17:31]:
I think we talked about this, but I got to number five in the world in paintball, and my best friend growing up, he was number one in the world for two or three years. And so going through that process and observing the best in the world at something, whether it's rock skipping or writing or it doesn't matter. For me, unfortunately, it was something that paid less than rock skipping. But I went through an entire season. A season is like a full year of never winning a match an over. An over an entire season never winning a match that's getting smashed, bruised, terrible. But then a couple seasons later, we had, like, the most winning season ever. Like, we won absolutely everything.
Max Traylor [00:18:11]:
It was like Division 2 or something. Then we won Division 1. But, like, the mindset. You can't go in with a mindset of, oh, no, what if I fail? You go in the mindset of, like, do I feel I've already crashed and burned? Like, I know what that feels. I survived. Like, it's not a big deal if I fail. Be afraid of that person that's not afraid to fail because all they're thinking about is, what do I do next? They're not worried about what they've already done, what they have to do eight steps from now. Like, they're.
Max Traylor [00:18:38]:
They're entirely in the present. You better watch out.
Nick Bennett [00:18:41]:
Talk to me about the turning point for you. So, like, your fam, you come from a long line of do it yourselfers. What'd you call it?
Max Traylor [00:18:49]:
Yeah. I don't say entrepreneurs because I don't fancy myself an entrepreneur. I have no interest in creating businesses, building teams. I have built a business around my personal life, which is exactly what my dad did. So I don't consider either one of us entrepreneurs. Grandfather entrepreneur. Great grandfather entrepreneur. We're do your own thingers.
Nick Bennett [00:19:09]:
All right. Do your own thing. So you did the crazier thing and you got a job, and then there was, like, a turning point for you where you decided it was time to become a do your own thinger. Kind of walk me through that moment when you decided, like, I'm done, I'm going solo, I'm doing my own thing, or what was that moment for you?
Max Traylor [00:19:30]:
Yeah. If I have an idea that I decide I'm going to pursue and someone else tells me I can't pursue it, I'm out. I spent three months in corporate. So the first time it happened, I spent three months in corporate. I actually went to New York, got a job. It was because I want a national marketing contest for this idea. And I got like, an A in my capstone marketing course. And then I went to New York.
Max Traylor [00:19:48]:
I was like, you guys should hire me. And they're like, yeah, okay. So first day, I was like, so we're doing the idea, right? I had this idea for a ridiculous character for their. For their advertising campaign for one of their products. And they were like. They were like, you can't do that. I was like, we're not actually going to do that. And I was like, oh, okay.
Max Traylor [00:20:04]:
How long is my contract? And for the next three months, I started a new business. Like, I was sitting at the desk, I was getting paid, but I was like, I'm going to. I'm not interested in doing anything besides the thing I thought you hired me for. So I was out. And in agency world, it was when I discovered strategy. There's two businesses in any professional service organization. There's the thinking and there's the doing. And I cut my teeth for years building teams, doing the doing.
Max Traylor [00:20:30]:
People emailing me about the shade of purple on their website. It makes me want to throw up my mouth thinking about it. Then there's getting paid to think, getting paid to create a plan, strategy Advisory people say, max, where do you think I should spend the money? I felt like a big boy and it changed my life. Then we started to sell strategy, and boy, was that a different financial model. You can charge whatever you wanted. Wasn't competitive based pricing. We were selling content marketing strategies at about $20,000 and the process took six hours. And so naturally I was like, hey, everybody, why don't we stop doing all the other things and just do this? And they're like, ah, we can't do that.
Max Traylor [00:21:09]:
So I was like, okay, I'm going to go do that. And that became the first year of my independent practice, was just doing strategy. And I would hand the implementation to the agencies that I had relationships with. And I just asked them for 20%, which they said, no, Max, that's crazy. We can't give you 20%. Our margins are 5%. And I said, well, what if I sell it for 20% more than you're selling it today? They said, okay. And so I sold it for 20% more than they were selling it today.
Max Traylor [00:21:36]:
And I discovered a whole bunch of fun things about wearing the pants as a big boy strategist. So that's how it happened.
Nick Bennett [00:21:42]:
What are some of those fun things that you discovered wearing the pants?
Max Traylor [00:21:47]:
Well, you are advising companies on how to spend their money.
Nick Bennett [00:21:53]:
Why could you charge 20% more?
Max Traylor [00:21:55]:
Well, there are three levels of relationship that you can be in. You have a relationship with leaders and you help them make decisions. You have a relationship with managers and you help them make other people do things. And then you can have a relationship with the people that do well, then you just be somebody that does things. So the key is to maintain your relationship with the leaders where you help them make decisions. And every relationship you have in those bottom tiers will challenge that first relationship. Because if a leader sees you hang out with a manager, now you're at the status of a manager. If the leader sees you hanging out with the janitor, now you're a janitor.
Max Traylor [00:22:34]:
It's the least common denominator. You can go down. It's very hard to go up. Practical example would be I would go. I would go in, I'd be introduced as a strategist. Hi, this is Max. He's helping us with our marketing strategy. A month later, when I was helping with their website.
Max Traylor [00:22:47]:
Hi, this is Max. He's handling our website. A month later, when I was reading, writing tweets or whatever the hell we were doing. Oh, is he helping us? Right? He's the tweeting expert. And I noticed That I was identified and profiled based on what I was doing. So you do strategy and you keep doing strategy and you keep your friggin hands off the other shit.
Nick Bennett [00:23:12]:
In the beginning, like the little things I feel like kind of build up and make you question whether or not you're doing the right things. What were those things for you? Like, you know, you talk about going through these like hurdles where you're like, you go through one thing that doesn't work. Like, you fail at this other thing and you fail at this other thing. How did you go through those cycles until you got to what worked?
Max Traylor [00:23:34]:
So you just described a feeling that is important to recognize. And it's the feeling that you're not doing it correctly. I'll one up that and that everything's falling apart. Yeah, that feeling never goes away. So I just want to be clear about that. There's never a, oh, what happened? And then how would you get over it? That's a daily, that's an every year thing. The world changes. If you're comfortable, you're screwed.
Max Traylor [00:23:58]:
I'm more worried when I haven't been challenged by something or when something didn't work than when I am. It's like, man, the last five client engagements have gone swimmingly. Now I know I'm gonna be caught with my pants down. I'm like, something's going on out there. This is way too good to be true. Something's going on. I'm gonna get completely blindsided by it. I'd rather be like, huh? Why have the last five clients told me to go F myself when I talk about recreating content? Oh, maybe because they can do it for free using AI.
Max Traylor [00:24:27]:
Perhaps I should partner with somebody that understands what the hell they're talking about. Cause I sure don't.
Nick Bennett [00:24:32]:
I totally get that. And I've only been. I've been out on my own for like nine months now. So I think trying to zoom out. I mean, you've been doing for nine years.
Max Traylor [00:24:41]:
Yeah. So which still is like a drop in the hat. Like, I talk to people all the time that have been doing it for like 30 years.
Nick Bennett [00:24:47]:
So like, and I think it's like, it's easy to think especially with like the rush to like consulting and solopreneurship right now as like, it's way more desirable than getting a job for most people because getting a job sucks for a whole bunch of reasons. But there's also like, who wants to compete against 2,000 other people to try and get like a job in marketing or Something. And I think it's like, that feeling of being like, I could just go back and get another job type of thing. Like, I think that, like, level of questioning and those small moments where, like, you kind of keep hitting failure is what sets a lot of people off on the wrong direction. And then there's like, a moment where you are like, hey, this. This actually could work. Like, you kind of strike something, and, like, you get, like, your first yes. Or you kind of.
Nick Bennett [00:25:36]:
You're like, okay, maybe that was a fluke. Your fifth yes. And you're like, I'm onto something here. Like, this version of my service or my offer has, like, evolved into a place where you start picking up that momentum.
Max Traylor [00:25:49]:
Yeah, well, so I think I understand what you're saying. There was one particular client where I knew I was never turning back. And I met them in person, like, three months after we had worked together. And I hadn't heard from them. And they said, well, you haven't heard from me because I took three months off and I went and visited my family in Africa. And because of all the systems you created, my niece ran the business for the last three months. And by the way, we've doubled our business. And it's all because of what you put together.
Max Traylor [00:26:20]:
And I was like, I'm in, man. That's it. That feeling right here now, the look in your eye, the hug I'm going to give you, like, on top of the freaking world. So that was it. Then I was like, it's worth the. It's worth the challenges. It's worth the failure. I got a hit of that drug, and I would do anything to get another.
Nick Bennett [00:26:39]:
That's a powerful moment, man. I think few people will ever. The reality is, I think few people will ever kind of get to that point. But, like, that's the thing that a lot of us are chasing, trying to do this work. Is anyone who does it, who's crazy enough to try and do it. Like, you got to be so tethered to it, to the point where you don't give up, and you're chasing that thing, trying to make such an impact.
Max Traylor [00:27:03]:
So, like, you. You know, I talk all like. My defining principle is, put your personal life first and build a business around that. My dad told me that when I was a kid, but it didn't become my thing until that experience, because even though I had that in my arsenal of things that my dad gave me, and. But it's like, what's defining motivation? It's not some, like, strategic. I can't do, like, some deep thought exercise. Maybe if I take some, like, crazy psychedelic drug, I'd find it like ayahuasca or something. It's like, oh, I want to help people with their personal lives.
Max Traylor [00:27:38]:
But it wasn't until you experienced it, and then you were like, whoa, there's something happening inside me that I've never felt before. Maybe that's it. But you don't get there without going through all that failure and sort of the indifference to failure of just like, I'm gonna try some stuff, I'm gonna commit to this, I'm gonna commit to that. I'm gonna commit to this. You know, and most of. Most of those ideas aren't gonna get you to that point. They're gonna fail to some degree. And the people that make it to podcasts like yours are the ones that didn't give up.
Max Traylor [00:28:10]:
That's the only characteristic that defines us, is we didn't give up when we hit that shit.
Nick Bennett [00:28:15]:
Yeah. I can't tell you how many times in the very early days when it was like, job. I mean, for me, just like, go to job or try to do this. I'm a first generation, whatever, entrepreneur in my family. I mean, I'm sure at some point in the great lineage there's an entrepreneur, but it's further, far enough away that it's not like it has. It didn't. It wasn't. It wasn't just part of, like, my lessons learned kind of growing up in that mindset.
Nick Bennett [00:28:41]:
Right. And there are plenty of days where, like, I talked to my wife on the couch after the kid goes to sleep, and we are like, what are we. What am I doing? Like, what have we done? Like, should we do this thing? Is this really what we're doing right now? There's those moments, but it's like, no, this is the right thing. You're helping people. The people, like the people who you are working with. Right. They are seeing the impact. And I think sometimes it's like.
Nick Bennett [00:29:08]:
Like you. You called it like that hit of that drug where you're going to need more at some point. Like, you might not have. You might have a roster of successful people, but you're like, oh, I need more people. Like, I need more money or I need more whatever.
Max Traylor [00:29:19]:
The thing is, that was my professional motivation. But there's a motiv. There's a motivation that supersedes that for me. And that is, what am I not prepared to sacrifice? Because if you told me, hey, Max, if you go to this 9 to 5 and sacrifice your personal Life and don't play as much golf. That hit. You felt you could get that every day and I'd be like, no, not worth it. So at some point you have to be selfish. My dad always said you have to protect your quarterback.
Max Traylor [00:29:48]:
What he meant was, if he falls apart, he can't bring me to Disney World. So you can't fall apart. If you fall apart, you can't help your clients. So you and I have made the decision to be around for our family. I say that, but I also play a heck of a lot of golf. So like I've made the decision that I'm going to continue to pursue my addictive competitive nature that started with paintball and whatever. And I'm not prepared to sacrifice that. So I put my personal life first and then you find your personal, your professional motivation.
Max Traylor [00:30:19]:
And so with that, with those barriers established, I will now create a business that complements my personal life that is completely 100% geared towards helping people put their personal life first and building a business around that. My opinion, that's what a lot of people are missing, especially coming out of corporate world where you've been conditioned, indoctrinated in this sacrifice until retirement mindset. And like, wake up. Retirement doesn't exist for our generation. Sorry.
Nick Bennett [00:30:48]:
Yeah, I've found the less I'm working, the better work I do. Like, if I'm not staring at my screen, your brain's still going on the problem that you're trying to figure out and you're going to get to it way faster when you're swinging a golf club than you are trying to stare down. Stares through your monitor to get there. And I think backing off was the best thing because like in the beginning too, it's like there's this level of anxiety and like stress that you feel of like, I gotta, I gotta cover my bases here. Whatever I need, whatever minimum financial thing some people have like the luxury of fading into, do your own thing and some people don't. One day I was full time employed, the next day the company restructured and I had a choice to make. And so it's like I have to provide for my family. I thought the answers were inside of my screen.
Nick Bennett [00:31:38]:
And my wife showed me. She was like, they're not there. Back off. Spend more time doing the things you love. And that's when things started to really like the traction and the progress that I was looking for in the monitor was actually with my family, right. With my personal life. Like you're saying.
Max Traylor [00:31:55]:
Yeah, it's always in the, in the void, the empty space.
Nick Bennett [00:31:59]:
How did you draw the line between saying, like, hey, this is a tough year. I'm still gonna prioritize my personal life and swing a golf club or spend time with my family and my kids and not like, go deeper into work.
Max Traylor [00:32:15]:
So once again, I think I got very lucky because I turned pro in paintball when I was still in college. And so I was playing a full schedule through high school, through college. So freshman year of college, I showed up and I said, hi, professor, I'm going to be a B plus or an A minus student, Going to be one of the best, you're going to love me. Not going to be here for like a lot of the exams or like, you know, this other thing. And they're like, what do you mean? I was like, yeah, I travel the world playing professional paintball, so like, I'm hoping we could work that out. And in general, like, I went to an entrepreneur school. So these weren't like hard ass, like, nah, you gotta be here. They were like, oh, that's friggin crazy.
Max Traylor [00:32:57]:
Yeah, I mean, I'm sure we can figure something out. So in my professional life, I brought that same, you know, from day one it was like, I'm not gonna be here for 16 weeks a year, so like I can't get a real job. That's why, that's why I immediately started my own or I was running an agency where it was like, look, I'm 16 weeks out of the year for like a whole week, like I'm not going to be here. And so it was always built into my work life, my habits, my reward system. I very quickly saw that it was like a way to completely decompress. I came back with a lot of testosterone and I just yelled at, I got all my frustration out and I yelled at people and I was bruised up, throwing things. And then I'd come back and I'd be, you know, chill, work max. And so I feel very lucky that I was like, I always had that.
Max Traylor [00:33:47]:
I think it's harder for people to look at themselves in the mirror and say, I've done everything I can. It's hard for them to do that without being like extremely tired and feeling like they've physically put everything in that they can. That's how a lot of people judge their own worth. And if they don't, if they're not dead tired, they feel guilty. But it's not when you're a consultant or when your worth is tied to your creative energy, the more tired you feel actually the less creative energy you have. So it's, it's a, it's a backwards, it's counterproductive to think like that when you're in the consulting space or professional services or anything that you know, your creative energy is really the fuel for client value.
Nick Bennett [00:34:28]:
So when you, you've been pretty diligent, it sounds like drawing this line between working yourself to death. I mean, I think there's like the hustle, the culture everyone doom scrolls LinkedIn.
Max Traylor [00:34:40]:
The opposite of hustle culture, right?
Nick Bennett [00:34:42]:
Like everyone will doom scroll LinkedIn and they're going to basically learn one or two things. You either need to work 10,000 hours a day or need to work 10 hours a year. And if you, if you don't build your business in one of those two ways or like set up your life in one of those two ways, you're a colossal failure. And it's like, well, no, that's untrue. But also like, I don't know, I think it's, it's tough because the loudest people say that. But there are so many people who are just like doing this work without the fanfare. And I think that's really what I, I'm so fascinated by is like the fact that you've been able to draw this line, I mean, and really not make the sacrifices that it seems like you're supposed to make. And so I'm curious, like, were there sacrifices like did you have to eat into savings to like get through that first hurdle? Like what was, was there a sacrifice even in the early days?
Max Traylor [00:35:36]:
So I was running this agency and even though I was running the company, I still consider that not a part of my solopreneur career because the big shift was going from agency where I had business partners that were backing it financially and I had employees. And I still consider that the traditional path. Even though I was running the agency and could seemingly make all these decisions. Yeah. I remember talking to my would be wife and I had the dark circles under my eyes. I was working way too much. I'd leave. I.
Max Traylor [00:36:03]:
Sometimes I left the office at 8pm and it was, it was a sacrifice. Granted it was during the weeks where I wasn't playing paintball, but even then. So you can still burn out when you're taking six weeks, 16 weeks off a year. Think about that.
Nick Bennett [00:36:16]:
Yeah, but when you're off, you're working, dude.
Max Traylor [00:36:18]:
But if you can run, if you can work yourself to death in a matter of two weeks, what's it matter if you take 16 weeks off a year? You still have to create barriers and protect your mental sanity during the times that you're working. And I was not protected and I was burnt out and I was sacrificing, so making that switch to doing my own thing. Then there was the three or four years of doing my own thing where I was probably even more psychologically messed up than I was working for the agency. I didn't have those systems established. I was paranoid enough. Where I did equate value and self worth to the amount of hours that I was working. I took comfort in my exhaustion.
Nick Bennett [00:37:01]:
How'd you get out of that? Like your dad in the back, in your brain was like, dude, you know what to do here? Or were you just like, I had to fail at this thing, I had to do it wrong to like put my life into perspective and oh, right, Dad's been hammering this into me.
Max Traylor [00:37:16]:
Having human children will do a lot, forces you, forces you to do it. I'd like to think that I would have chosen me regardless, but I don't know. I really don't. When you've got human children and an incredible wife, that's like, you're gonna like chip in, right? You gotta look at your calendar and then you have a second one. You're like, holy shit, that was a huge part of it. But again, having that anchor of paintball for the longest time. So it's like Now I'm taking 16 weeks off a year. I need to be around and be supportive of my kids.
Max Traylor [00:37:52]:
And so now it's really like you're putting work as one third of your priority. And that, that fundamental fundamentally breaks the five days a week to two days a week paradigm that most of us live in. And once you're outside of that, once you're outside of what everyone else lives in now the wheels are off. Now it's like, why make it a four day workweek when it could be a two day work week? Because that work, you know, that works. So like, it's going to be different, it's going to be difficult. No matter what, no matter what model you choose, it's good. There's going to be pros and cons. So you might as well start with something that is, by design, exactly what you want.
Max Traylor [00:38:26]:
That makes room for golf or whatever your thing is and your family. But the other thing I'll say is like, you really need to get into something for you, whether it's exercise or golf, outside of family, outside of work, you need to get like obsessed about something where you seriously consider sacrificing that thing for work.
Nick Bennett [00:38:48]:
So I heard an analogy a long time ago that was like, basically, if you think about your life and all the things that are important, you as light bulbs and you only have 100% power to go through all of them. So it's like you have your wife is one, like your children is the other. You have your friends, you have your work. You have kind of all these different things. And the question is, well, if you only have, like, you can't light them all up and they can't all be super bright at the same time. So, like, at some point one of them is going to turn off. At some point you need to take one out and. Or you, like, you can't keep adding in things.
Nick Bennett [00:39:21]:
Like in managing that. Like, I hate this idea of, like, how do you balance these things? But it's like, I don't know if it's management or like, there's this thing where I think that's a sacrifice. It's like, hey, well, I can't go play paintball 16 weeks a year. Be a father, be a husband, be a friend and go on friend trips or meet see a bunch of people, or go travel and go do this other thing. And like, there's sacrifice there for sure in terms of how bright each bulb can be. And at some point, whether you unscrew one or whether you in for some time type of thing.
Max Traylor [00:39:55]:
I agree.
Nick Bennett [00:39:56]:
So you were talking about like four days a week, two days a week.
Max Traylor [00:39:58]:
Where did you land, dude, last year? No, it was 2022. Katrina and I decided that we were going to take every fourth month off. So we did client work. January, February, March, took April off and we did that. We did that three times. Just because, like, we got in a regimen of doing our annual plan and quarterly planning where it was like we could do anything we put our mind to. It requires discipline. You need a sales pipeline.
Max Traylor [00:40:26]:
You need a productized offer to set expectations with clients. But like, once you have that, it's like you're moving Lego pieces around. You decide you want to take three months off. Decide, okay, three months off. How's that going to impact the sales pipeline? How's that going to impact client expectations? Make those decisions and you go, so one of the first things I did is said nothing client related on Mondays. I took Mondays off. The, like, possibility. The only thing that I want to accomplish on Monday is planning.
Max Traylor [00:40:54]:
And I probably accomplished that 75% of the time. The other 25%, I decided to go play golf because it's too nice and I'm like, I fuck the plan. I regret that later, by the way. But, like, in that moment, I'm like, I want to play golf.
Nick Bennett [00:41:06]:
You could do it, though. It doesn't matter. You. You were able to make the choice, and that's what matters.
Max Traylor [00:41:11]:
And you know, someone out there is.
Nick Bennett [00:41:12]:
Like, but I have a client call on Monday.
Max Traylor [00:41:15]:
It's just like, just email them and say, I'm unavailable.
Nick Bennett [00:41:18]:
Just move it to Tuesday.
Max Traylor [00:41:19]:
You move. Move it. Yeah, but that's not culturally what they've been brought up with as acceptable.
Nick Bennett [00:41:25]:
Yes. And I just think it's a limiting belief that, like, they can do these things. Like, it's tough. I think as someone who's getting. I'm getting deep enough into my own. Do it my own way or process.
Max Traylor [00:41:38]:
To, like, do your own thing.
Nick Bennett [00:41:39]:
Do my own thing. Or I'll get it at some point. And to be like, all right, like, it's time to start taking time off. Take a vacation. Right? Like, and I think there's a lot of people who, like, like, how do you do that? And you're like. You're like, what do you mean, how do I do that? I take a month off every three months. Like, there is. There are no rules.
Nick Bennett [00:41:57]:
Like, you make the rules, and you can choose how you design all of it.
Max Traylor [00:42:04]:
Yeah, but. But you have to commit to doing. You have to commit to yourself first. In my workbook for doing things better, there's a planning regimen. You plan your personal stuff first. So my calendar is blank. First thing I'm going to plan is golf. Maybe that trip with my kids, if my wife is around.
Nick Bennett [00:42:21]:
You want to take your kids to Zimbabwe?
Max Traylor [00:42:23]:
Yes. I'm not taking them to Zimbabwe. But, yeah, perfect example, right? So you plan your personal stuff first, then you plan the strategic stuff. Working on the business, not in the business. You plan working on the business. I'm going to create a new services model. I'm going to network something that's not. Like, I'm.
Max Traylor [00:42:43]:
Put my head in the dirt and make sure this client gets the value, you know, so. Because we have to imagine that we will not let ourselves disappoint our clients. If you don't have that gene, like, you're not cut out to do this. I just won't let a client have a bad experience. Like, I just. I just won't let it happen. So I plan that stuff last because I know that I will. I will scrounge whatever energy remains to do that thing for my client.
Max Traylor [00:43:12]:
Plan your personal life first. Book that trip now. Don't wait for permission or a check to come in or for you to hit some arbitrary goal that you hit for yourself. Because when you hit that goal, you're going to go, oh, now I have this other goal. This thing came up. And, you know, I. My tree fell down in my lawn. You know, some bullshit.
Max Traylor [00:43:29]:
And you're never going to reward yourself, and it's going to screw up your whole equilibrium. So plan your personal stuff. Get your working on the business regiment set up. And then if you fail, at least you had fun failing.
Nick Bennett [00:43:44]:
You did it on your own terms. Like, you got to choose how you failed. It's not just like failure happened to you. You were like, I put all the pieces in place. But. And you know what?
Max Traylor [00:43:54]:
I guarantee that if you fail, it's not because you spent a week in Zimbabwe. That has nothing to do with it.
Nick Bennett [00:44:00]:
Yeah, you were probably going to fail no matter what. At least you got a week in Zimbabwe.
Max Traylor [00:44:04]:
There's nothing to do with it.
Nick Bennett [00:44:06]:
Dude. I think from the outside looking in, it seems like you're. You got it all figured out.
Max Traylor [00:44:11]:
No, I'm a mess most of the.
Nick Bennett [00:44:13]:
Time, where we all are. But, like, you got the books, you got the authors on the show and the podcast and all that stuff. But, like, it wasn't always this way. And I'm curious, was there someone in your life who, outside of, like, your father or your grandfather, kind of just with that wisdom, was there, like, a professional? Like, did you have a consultant? Like, did you have someone in your life who helped keep you, I say, between the cones? And it's just like helping try to help you make decisions?
Max Traylor [00:44:44]:
I had many. So I think that if you're not being advised by people that are way smarter than you on a daily basis, you're doing it wrong. The first thing I decided when I went out on my own is I want to interview people about how they monetize their expertise. Because I monetize my expertise, I need to know. I help my clients monetize their expertise. I need to know. And no business happens without conversations. To me, that was a podcast.
Max Traylor [00:45:13]:
So I started talking to people. And, like, when you say, oh, well, you've made it, you've had these authors on your podcast. I had authors on my podcast before it existed, before I ever released an episode. I probably had, like, 50 episodes recorded with people before it was even a thing, because I just wasn't afraid to reach out. I'd reach out and say, hey, I have zero audience. I'm just getting started. It's Called Beers with Max. And I really want to help people put their personal life first and build a business around that.
Max Traylor [00:45:46]:
Would you be up for a quick interview? Mostly I got no's. Actually, no. Mostly I got no response because who's.
Nick Bennett [00:45:53]:
Going to say no? You're like basically everyone.
Max Traylor [00:45:55]:
Yeah. Right. Well, the initial idea was like, what's an email I'll never. I'll always reply to. Or what's an email I would open no matter what? And the answer was an email with the subject, would you like to have a beer? So that was probably the greatest idea that got me started ever. Because that's, that's how I got a lot of these people. But like, I have someone, like, I'll send some to you. There's like literally me interviewing people with no nice camera, no microphone, just like literally ripping a laptop.
Max Traylor [00:46:21]:
I'm like 20 and these are like best selling authors and I'm doing like the most bootleg thing that never even made it to the Internet. These are just on my computer. So like, people are like, oh, I don't have an audience. I don't have a show. I don't have this. It's like, wave a magic wand, I deem you worthy. Go get conversations. Go learn from people.
Nick Bennett [00:46:40]:
If I've learned anything throughout this process, you got to ask for what you want. That is like a huge, huge hurdle that for some reason some people can't clear.
Max Traylor [00:46:51]:
Yeah. And be humble. Be like, I don't, I don't have an audience. Own it.
Nick Bennett [00:46:55]:
Even that aside, like, owning the truth is a huge part of being realistic. I don't know if it's courage or.
Max Traylor [00:47:02]:
What it is an indifference to failure.
Nick Bennett [00:47:04]:
Indifference in failure.
Max Traylor [00:47:05]:
It's an indifference to failure.
Nick Bennett [00:47:06]:
You just have to have the indifference to ask for what you want. Like, people feel as if you ask and all of a sudden you are like, you're depositioned or you're in this. Like, please can I have some business? And that's not the case. Like, it's not like a pity. You people respect people who ask for what they want. I tell my kid all the time when he asks for something, I'm like, thank you for asking for what you want. Like, just never be ashamed to ask.
Max Traylor [00:47:33]:
I want to be able to say yes or no. You can ask somebody for something and they can say no. And you can still be great friends. Yeah. But you can't waste their time and be like, what, what's. Spit it out, man.
Nick Bennett [00:47:44]:
But also, how are you supposed to ever get. Make any progress on anything? That you're trying to do if you just don't ask for the thing. And it doesn't have to be lopsided. Like, there's plenty of. There's plenty value for someone, an author to come on your podcast for someone with no audience, because that's a really human and just, like, good thing for people to do. Like, no one's better than someone else.
Max Traylor [00:48:05]:
People underestimate the value of them feeling like they helped some kid get started. That's the value. What does somebody that has everything value? Some of them value helping other people. Hi. I'd like to offer you the opportunity to help some kid that's committed to doing their own thing. What do you think? They're like, yeah, beer. Did you say beer? Okay, cool.
Nick Bennett [00:48:32]:
So many people, like, you see this stuff pop up on the Internet all over the place, where it's someone who just, like, took a shot and it's like, hey, they went out and they asked this person to. An author to do something. It's like, I forget someone, like, asked Taylor Swift to go to their prom. And it was like, oh, this kid just, like, had the. He was just like, what's the worst that could happen? And she was like, sure. I don't know if it was Taylor Swift, but it was like some big name celebrity. He just did it.
Max Traylor [00:48:56]:
Yeah, because what do you do when you got those billions of dollars just like, dude, you want to, like, completely change somebody's life tomorrow? Oh, yeah, hop on the private jet. We'll go to Wisconsin. Like, this is no big deal. They're bored. They're bored.
Nick Bennett [00:49:07]:
Yeah, dude, I know. You gotta go play some golf. So I got one last thing for you. Two last things, actually. So looking back on the last nine years, what's something you would have done differently?
Max Traylor [00:49:22]:
I would have done the one month off. One out of every four months off. From the beginning, I only thought about that because, like, year four or five, I had a client in Sweden and it's big in Europe to take, like, August off, I think. And I was like, how do you do that? And they're just like, what do you mean? Everybody does that. And I was just like, there are no fucking rules. And then I thought of it and I did it. But it takes practice, right? So if I had spent the last nine years practicing that, I'd probably be working like three months a year or something like that.
Nick Bennett [00:49:48]:
Like, every. It's like, all right, every three months we take a month off. They're like, okay, every two months we take two months off.
Max Traylor [00:49:53]:
Yeah, like, I would just. That would be my definition of progress. I'd be like, I'd be doing something every one month.
Nick Bennett [00:49:58]:
We take 11 off. That's it. We're. That's what we're doing here.
Max Traylor [00:50:01]:
Yeah. Every year I take six months or something.
Nick Bennett [00:50:05]:
You know, dude, I talk. I call it. It's the limiting belief, man. When you and I talked on your show, one of the things we talked about is coming in with this employee mindset. And they come in and they design their life based on the way that it was that they were told how to do it. When they work for somebody, whether it is the things that they sell and their offers and how they create services, which is all, like, output oriented versus, like, outcomes oriented. But then there's also, like, the way that they build their life around the business or the. Whatever business around the life.
Nick Bennett [00:50:36]:
The way they staple the two things together is through the lens of you get four weeks off a year. You take whatever, you get one week off a quarter.
Max Traylor [00:50:44]:
And most people say, I'm balancing. That is bullshit. That is grade A bullshit. Balance, by definition, means you spend half time, work half time on yourself. That ain't nine to five. Five days a week, two days. Like, that's not what balance is. So people use this word, balance, and it's just crazy.
Nick Bennett [00:51:04]:
I try to stay away from it. I don't know how to explain it. Do you have a way of just articulating what. What do you call the Venn diagram? The mesh.
Max Traylor [00:51:13]:
There's no such. There's no such thing as balance. You be intentional with your time.
Nick Bennett [00:51:16]:
Just give a shit about, like, just think about it for, like, a second.
Max Traylor [00:51:20]:
Personal gets the priority. Then working on the business, then working in the business. Those things are not balanced. I am not trying to balance them. I'm actively trying to unbalance them in favor of my personal time.
Nick Bennett [00:51:34]:
So one of the things that I think about, though, is that there's plenty of people who don't have, like, they don't have the financial means to focus on their personal life and plan their price.
Max Traylor [00:51:43]:
They raise your price. No, no, no, no. Let's talk to those people right now. When was the last time they raised their price? When was the last time you raised your price?
Nick Bennett [00:51:50]:
I deal with a lot of people in the very early stages of going out on their own, and there's, like, a lot of this ambiguity and this, like, anxiety.
Max Traylor [00:51:59]:
And how many times do you feel like they can raise their price?
Nick Bennett [00:52:03]:
Basically every single person.
Max Traylor [00:52:04]:
Basically every time. So. Oh, I don't have the time I need to work with five clients. No, you don't. You raise your price 20%. Now you work with three clients, you take the extra client time, and you book golf.
Nick Bennett [00:52:17]:
Yeah, I think. I think the mental hurdle is planning the vacation before the revenue. I think it's. I respect and appreciate and that order of priority, but I think it's, like, hard. That's a hurdle to clear. It's like.
Max Traylor [00:52:30]:
It's accountability. That's where. That's where someone like Katrina can come in. You will hold yourself accountable for clients because you will not let yourself fail them. Unless you suck. And then you probably shouldn't be doing this. You should probably work for somebody else where failing the company is like a norm, but you need someone to hold you accountable, to put yourself first.
Nick Bennett [00:52:50]:
Yeah, it's like, you can't just let your family down because you didn't want to let a client down.
Max Traylor [00:52:55]:
Katrina would say to me, like, you need to book that trip with Emily and the kids. And I'm like, I'll get around to it. She's like, no, right now. Pull it up on the screen. And I'd book. And I'd book it. And she'd be like, great. Now we can talk about worksheet.
Nick Bennett [00:53:08]:
That's another day. I want to know how you ended up with Katrina, but that's another conversation. All right, man, I got one last thing for you. What do you want to build that you haven't built yet? Like, what does the future of Max Trailer Consulting Consultants look like?
Max Traylor [00:53:23]:
Not even remotely thinking about that for the next couple of years. I'm in the present. I got a five year old. I got a three year old. There's one thing I've learned. It's like, you need to have a vision for the future. I'm going to do it later. I've done plenty of those exercises.
Max Traylor [00:53:37]:
I believe in it. But, like, I'm good right now. I'm put. I'm. I got two kids. They're little, they're moldable. And all I wanted when I was a kid was for my dad to be around. So my vision is to be around, and we'll reevaluate that when they no longer value that, which is going to be a few years, and then I'll.
Max Traylor [00:53:56]:
And then I'll reevaluate, like, what I want to do.
Nick Bennett [00:53:59]:
I like it, man. I thought you were going to say build a digital course.
Max Traylor [00:54:01]:
I've built three of them. It sucks. I'm not. I'm not a big fan.
Nick Bennett [00:54:04]:
I appreciate you, man. Thanks for sharing. Thanks for the vulnerability, man. I appreciate you.
Max Traylor [00:54:08]:
Hey, wish me luck tonight, dude.
Nick Bennett [00:54:10]:
Luck has been wished.
Max Traylor [00:54:11]:
You gotta let me know we gotta make playoffs. I've been sucking wind.
Nick Bennett [00:54:14]:
Let me know. Hit me up and let me know what happens, how it goes. Appreciate you, brother. I'll talk to you soon, man. Hey, Nick. Again, and thanks for listening. If you've enjoyed this episode, you can sign up for the 1000 Routes newsletter where I process the instance insights and stories you hear on this show into frameworks and lessons to help you build a new and different future for your own business. You can sign up at 1000routes.com or check the link in the show notes.