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Weekly conversations breaking down what we're watching, what you should be watching and everything in between.
Priscilla: Hey guys, welcome to the Is this Cinema
Priscilla: podcast.
Priscilla: It'd be me, Priscilla, and we haven't got
Priscilla: just today, but we've got the head, honcho,
Priscilla: We've got Banky with us and today we
Priscilla: actually have a major interview with the
Priscilla: hair on set.
Priscilla: Producers and director.
Priscilla: We've got two thirds of the team, so we've
Priscilla: got Jordan and we've got Lee, who both
Priscilla: acted as the director and producer of the
Priscilla: documentary Voila, who was one of the main
Priscilla: directors of the film as well.
Priscilla: She was unable to interview us, but she's
Priscilla: just as lovely and we were very, very
Priscilla: grateful that we got a chance to interview
Priscilla: with any of them.
Priscilla: Actually, and we're actually going to go
Priscilla: through our thoughts and opinions on the
Priscilla: documentary itself what we thought,
Priscilla: anything we took away from it and why we
Priscilla: both think we should watch it.
Priscilla: But I'll go through the normal admin.
Priscilla: So we've recorded episodes of reviews of
Priscilla: Gen V.
Priscilla: If you've not watched Gen V but you have
Priscilla: watched the boys, then do watch Gen V.
Priscilla: If you've not watched either of those two
Priscilla: things, watch both.
Priscilla: Then listen to the reviews.
Priscilla: Gen V is very, very good.
Priscilla: The reviews are very, very funny.
Bankole: Finale tomorrow.
Priscilla: You know I mean like Deffo, watch it If
Priscilla: you've also have been watching Loki, their
Priscilla: reviews on Loki.
Priscilla: If you've not watched Loki, start watching
Priscilla: Loki.
Priscilla: This is not the typical Kevin Feige thing
Priscilla: where the Disney properties rubbish.
Priscilla: It's very good, it's very good, jesus
Priscilla: Christ.
Bankole: How do you insult my Lord and Savior, Kevin
Bankole: Feige?
Priscilla: My Lord and Savior is Jesus Christ, so I'm
Priscilla: going to insult Kevin Feige.
Bankole: Well, I don't know man.
Bankole: Jesus Christ gave me Captain America Winter
Bankole: Soldier.
Bankole: I don't know, I don't know.
Priscilla: He gave Stan Lee the talent to write it, so
Priscilla: wait, let me just quickly.
Bankole: let me just quickly, God.
Bankole: I don't mean that, that was just a joke for
Bankole: the internet, please.
Priscilla: So if you've not watched Loki, please, it's
Priscilla: been like three by the time we released
Priscilla: this episode.
Priscilla: We've been four episodes.
Priscilla: Five actually would have come out by then
Priscilla: yeah.
Priscilla: Watch all five, then come back and listen
Priscilla: to the reviews of the episodes.
Priscilla: It's good content.
Priscilla: Like I'm not talking about good Marvel, I'm
Priscilla: talking about good TV, just good TV.
Bankole: It's very good and this Marvel Hill turn
Bankole: that you're on is ridiculous.
Priscilla: No, I'm not going to lie to you.
Priscilla: I'm not going to lie to you.
Priscilla: Since Moon Knight I've not been in the tech.
Bankole: No, no no, no, no, look the TV.
Bankole: The TV slate has been Nobody's arguing that
Bankole: even the movie slate hasn't been that
Bankole: brilliant post, post, what it called it
Bankole: post no way home.
Bankole: Yes, nobody's arguing this.
Priscilla: They're in a slump.
Bankole: They're in a slump, but they also gave us
Bankole: 2008 2019.
Bankole: I think we can give them more than two
Bankole: years.
Priscilla: I give them two bad movies.
Priscilla: They gave me that four movies, but they had
Priscilla: two bad movies in the infinity saga, like
Priscilla: they had.
Bankole: most of those movies are not that great.
Priscilla: What movie was as bad as story?
Bankole: Thoughty Dark World.
Bankole: Thoughty Dark World.
Bankole: That was not worse than oh, don't you know
Bankole: what, priscilla, why would I think, let's
Bankole: not do this, let's not.
Bankole: This is this is revisionist history, but
Bankole: the thoughty Dark World, iron man 2.
Bankole: They've been bad MCU movies.
Priscilla: I meant to not bad movie.
Priscilla: I'm like nah.
Priscilla: I meant to not bad movie Um compared to the
Priscilla: garbage that's just come out.
Bankole: Also there's back to Priscilla.
Bankole: Priscilla did kill the flower moon, so
Bankole: please check that out, priscilla and Jess.
Priscilla: Yeah, it was very honest.
Priscilla: Guys, please yeah.
Priscilla: Priscilla and Esau said did If you've got
Priscilla: if you've got free time, if you've got a
Priscilla: spare seven pounds 99 for your view don't
Priscilla: spend the 12 pounds of Odeon.
Priscilla: Um, if you go spare money, use it to watch
Priscilla: killers on the flower moon.
Priscilla: You're going to bulk at the idea that it's
Priscilla: for nearly four hours long.
Priscilla: Don't bulk at it.
Priscilla: It flies by.
Priscilla: I'm not joking.
Bankole: Oh, also find out about me Invincible.
Bankole: We're going to be covering it weekly, so
Bankole: please check that out as well.
Bankole: Okay, Priscilla, let's please.
Bankole: Let's talk about this documentary before.
Priscilla: I stop, stop, stop listening Um but I'll
Priscilla: give my personal opinion about the
Priscilla: documentary.
Priscilla: It was possibly one of the actually one of
Priscilla: the best black hair documentary I've seen
Priscilla: in a long time, because Chris Rock had to
Priscilla: do one and it was.
Priscilla: It was rubbish.
Bankole: Oh my God, this, this trees, this trees are
Bankole: keep on happening.
Priscilla: Um, the plenty of words which have not been
Priscilla: that good.
Priscilla: This was brilliant Like it nails the
Priscilla: experience very well.
Priscilla: I think what I loved most about it was the
Priscilla: fact that you've I think sometimes when you
Priscilla: do documentaries about these, these
Priscilla: experiences, I think sometimes we turn it's
Priscilla: things we've always we've heard, but when
Priscilla: you've got that Nathalie Emmanuelle from
Priscilla: Game of Thrones and you've got Naomie
Priscilla: Harris and all these, Oscar nominee Naomie
Priscilla: Harris don't play about her name and all
Priscilla: these other actresses and actors who are
Priscilla: discussing their own experiences, even Fola
Priscilla: herself, like I know Fola from Death in
Priscilla: Paradise" " "follow
Priscilla: I've watched most of the things she's been
Priscilla: in.
Priscilla: I don't remember her in Youngers, so um,
Priscilla: and they're all explaining like follow even
Priscilla: goes to.
Priscilla: It goes through a story where she actually
Priscilla: talked about sending videos on how to do
Priscilla: her hair to a stylist and I think watching
Priscilla: the documentary about the, I didn't
Priscilla: workload that black and brown actors and
Priscilla: actresses have to go through just to go to
Priscilla: work.
Lee: Have you ever heard?
Priscilla: of white woman.
Priscilla: A white man come and say I have to go on
Priscilla: YouTube and type in you know how like
Priscilla: Peruvian hair tutorial.
Bankole: Yeah, if you mind.
Bankole: I tried to like we're going to a bit of
Bankole: this into, so we're going to a bit of this
Bankole: with Jordan and me, and it's just the extra
Bankole: baggage that we have to carry as black
Bankole: people.
Bankole: It's so like, why, like I need to come to
Bankole: work and act and I need to think about my
Bankole: hair, like when there's someone on set.
Bankole: Imagine, just, let's imagine someone like
Bankole: the Caprio or Deliwis, people that are
Bankole: famed, what do you call it?
Bankole: Character actors sorry, a method.
Bankole: Character actors whatever your feelings on
Bankole: that term are people that say oh, they're
Bankole: Deliwis, told her.
Bankole: I want to call him Lincoln.
Bankole: Now, if he had to worry about his hair
Bankole: before every scene.
Bankole: Like he's not going to have the leeway to
Bankole: do things like that because he can just
Bankole: turn up and focus on the scene.
Bankole: He can just turn up and focus on the work
Bankole: of black people.
Bankole: black women need to wake up three hours
Bankole: early so they can do their hair themselves,
Bankole: or they need to find a way to make sure the
Bankole: hair make up doesn't feel bad because they
Bankole: are doing their hair themselves and just
Bankole: like it's just so taxing that as a black
Bankole: person, you need to leave, not only as your
Bankole: person, but you have to have all these
Bankole: extra baggage as well.
Priscilla: Yeah.
Bankole: But yeah, this documentary was just was
Bankole: really good.
Bankole: I'm not a documentary person, I don't
Bankole: really watch them in documentaries, but
Bankole: yeah, this was just really good.
Bankole: Just, I love actors, I've always loved
Bankole: actors.
Bankole: So just seeing all these actors that I
Bankole: really like coming on board, like just
Bankole: seeing the experiences David Ajala is on
Bankole: here as well, Saffron Hocking from Top Boy
Bankole: just like it's really a murder show of
Bankole: people like, oh, I know you, I know you, I
Bankole: know you, and just the experience you like.
Bankole: Oh, Naomie Harris is an Oscar nominee but
Bankole: she still goes through things, so much so
Bankole: that she has she wants to come out in a
Bankole: documentary.
Bankole: It's just like why?
Bankole: But?
Bankole: yeah, it's one of those other things that,
Bankole: like people, black people need to go
Bankole: through to exist and do their work and just
Bankole: do the work.
Priscilla: Yeah, because I relate to this in a weird
Priscilla: way.
Priscilla: It's a similar experience.
Priscilla: I remember when I went to university
Priscilla: outside of London and the first
Priscilla: conversation me and my mom had was how you
Priscilla: can do your hair.
Priscilla: Because you know, I was going to a uni city
Priscilla: which has a black population there.
Priscilla: But I don't know.
Priscilla: Actually I'm going to be a fan of people.
Priscilla: I don't know if they were going to be Coons
Priscilla: or not and I don't know if they're going to
Priscilla: be well versed in black, black, black,
Priscilla: natural hair.
Priscilla: I've not relaxed my hair since I was 11.
Priscilla: So you may know how to deal with, you know,
Priscilla: relaxed hair.
Priscilla: My hair isn't relaxed and I have hair
Priscilla: hairdressers all across the city that I can
Priscilla: go to who I trust.
Priscilla: I have three that I trust and I remember
Priscilla: the conversation me and my mom had was that
Priscilla: you know what, every two months you're
Priscilla: going to have to come back and do your hair,
Priscilla: and that's what I did my four years of uni.
Priscilla: I didn't do my hair in that city once and
Priscilla: that like I've never, and it's it's mad
Priscilla: because this is a really well versed
Priscilla: population but there's that added element
Priscilla: of I can't even my some of my friends did
Priscilla: you?
Priscilla: Just went to the salon, run random salon
Priscilla: and we'll do a balayage.
Priscilla: I only know what that is because some of my
Priscilla: friends are white.
Bankole: I'm not in, like I know what that is, but I
Bankole: don't know what that is.
Priscilla: It's basically like having highlights in
Priscilla: your hair done in a certain way.
Priscilla: They'll go to one random salon they don't
Priscilla: know this woman from Adam and they'll do
Priscilla: their hair and they'll come out.
Priscilla: It'll be fine.
Priscilla: I remember the girls keep asking me why you
Priscilla: know they do your hair is like I can't
Priscilla: trust someone with my hair.
Priscilla: You do my hair, you damage it.
Priscilla: I'm damned.
Bankole: Even as a man, like most black men know
Bankole: that, like you go into a barbershop and as
Bankole: a white woman that you know you're not,
Bankole: you're not going to.
Bankole: That white man's got your hair Like, and
Bankole: sometimes I feel bad for the white woman
Bankole: because her chair is empty and everyone is
Bankole: just like not going.
Bankole: But sometimes it's like I can't be the
Bankole: guinea pig, I can't be the one, and it's
Bankole: like, and then you have that kind of trust
Bankole: or even or in this case, fear, and then you
Bankole: go on set and you don't have an option
Bankole: because you need to be on set in 30 minutes,
Bankole: you need to do the scene.
Bankole: You can't go find your bar, but you can't
Bankole: wait for a black woman to come.
Bankole: I'm just like, yeah, and then I've watched
Bankole: so many films, you know.
Bankole: Like, with all due respect, I like this man,
Bankole: I think he's a good actor, but Anthony
Bankole: Mikey turns up in Endgame and I'm like that
Bankole: shape of wasn't a blackbubber that did that.
Priscilla: No way, and that's what is imprinted in my
Priscilla: head as much as I love that film.
Bankole: I love that film.
Bankole: I love that scene.
Bankole: I'm just like what are we doing here?
Bankole: And like it's, you know, like it has
Bankole: nothing to do with him.
Bankole: He has no control over that thing.
Bankole: He's maybe in a movie like Endgame, he's
Bankole: what, 15th on the call sheets, 20th, and
Bankole: it's just like he has no control over
Bankole: things like this.
Bankole: But there is no inclusion on the set,
Bankole: there's no proper representation.
Bankole: Yeah, we have a black quote, unquote
Bankole: Captain America.
Bankole: Sorry, that was rude.
Priscilla: We have a black quote, unquote to America.
Priscilla: That's true.
Priscilla: We have a black Captain America, but we
Priscilla: don't have like someone to cut his hair,
Priscilla: and it's just like it's one of those things
Priscilla: Like, yeah, I mean, I mean, we can please
Priscilla: go with documentary Please please, honestly,
Priscilla: guys I'm now TV as well Watch it, because
Priscilla: you know what, especially for the black
Priscilla: women, particularly natural-haired black
Priscilla: women, and you're a bit iffy about watching
Priscilla: a documentary on black hair on set.
Priscilla: No, please watch it.
Priscilla: Like guys, like this is a very, very well
Priscilla: done documentary.
Priscilla: It was done from a place of care and love
Priscilla: and wanting this to be sought out.
Priscilla: I know there's been so many documentaries
Priscilla: about this topic and it can be a bit I
Priscilla: don't know what the right word is but it's
Priscilla: a bit of a fatigue around it, like how many
Priscilla: times was me having this conversation about
Priscilla: black hair, but this is one of those ones
Priscilla: which are really well done and it's a point
Priscilla: that we keep having this conversation,
Priscilla: because I remember this conversation came
Priscilla: up when the black class movement was at its
Priscilla: peak, when people were doing black squares
Priscilla: and think they were doing Martin Luther
Priscilla: King.
Priscilla: People were having these conversations
Priscilla: about?
Bankole: Or the white women?
Bankole: Yeah, the white women were, and they put on
Bankole: the black squares.
Priscilla: yeah, yeah, what things that.
Priscilla: Oh, what we can do better.
Priscilla: And they were hiring all these diversity
Priscilla: people and putting black people in
Priscilla: positions of power and only have sat them
Priscilla: two years later.
Priscilla: But that's besides the plane.
Priscilla: But you know it's a very difficult class if
Priscilla: I go there, but you know we had this
Priscilla: conversation two years ago.
Priscilla: But it's important we keep bringing these
Priscilla: conversations up Because obviously Sky, who
Priscilla: obviously bought the documentary, have
Priscilla: obviously done their bit and are improving
Priscilla: their own diversity within their production
Priscilla: company.
Priscilla: Hair makeup yeah, I think it's important
Priscilla: that we extrapolate this conversation.
Priscilla: The thing is a tendency as we should do to
Priscilla: have our own with the big Warner Brothers
Priscilla: and Netflix and TV and all these massive
Priscilla: media companies.
Priscilla: In terms of production, however and what
Priscilla: else?
Priscilla: Is there the massive indie 1824 and all
Priscilla: those stuff.
Priscilla: But, however, bank of Australia interview,
Priscilla: which we'll hear, the more indie companies
Priscilla: and indie people should also be looking at
Priscilla: themselves.
Priscilla: Like, if you're having a film and you're
Priscilla: producing a film and you're actually hiring
Priscilla: black and brown people to be in your film,
Priscilla: what measures have you put in place?
Priscilla: Who's going?
Jordan: to do their hair and makeup.
Bankole: Just common sense, man Just common sense
Bankole: thing Like have you bought?
Priscilla: like Bank of Australia, when he did his
Priscilla: short film, he made sure that he had hair
Priscilla: and makeup for the black people in set and
Priscilla: the DB who knew how to deal with lighting
Priscilla: with black and brown people.
Priscilla: I still remember that Beyonce video in
Priscilla: below was the first time one of the first
Priscilla: times I've seen black people in blue light
Priscilla: shown properly, but that's because she's a
Priscilla: black woman who cares.
Priscilla: So I think there's more to be done and we
Priscilla: have keep having these conversations.
Priscilla: Guys like let me and Bank you know, after
Priscilla: watching it the documentary listened to
Priscilla: this episode of the podcast Any of your
Priscilla: thoughts.
Priscilla: Is there anything that shocks you?
Priscilla: Anything that didn't shock you?
Priscilla: Anything that you took away from me?
Priscilla: Is there something you wish they're
Priscilla: expanding or anything?
Priscilla: Just let us know, because I think it's
Priscilla: important that we continue the conversation.
Priscilla: Because it's important conversation to have.
Bankole: I should also just quickly mention if, for
Bankole: some reason you've listened to it, you
Bankole: don't plan on listening to the documentary,
Bankole: just listen to the documentary, because
Bankole: Jordan and Lee are great guys.
Bankole: It was such a fun conversation.
Bankole: The time flew by.
Bankole: We spoke for like 30 minutes after we
Bankole: finished recording, like.
Bankole: So, like, yeah, it's just, you can feel the
Bankole: enthusiasm and the love they have for this
Bankole: project and you might wonder.
Bankole: There's two men talking about this thing.
Bankole: Yeah, we asked those questions as well.
Bankole: So please check it out, check out the
Bankole: interview and then check out documentary or
Bankole: vice versa.
Bankole: Whichever, we just listened to this
Bankole: interview.
Bankole: Please, we need the podcast numbers.
Bankole: Okay, I don't know, Priscilla, anything
Bankole: else before we go to interview.
Priscilla: No, that's it.
Bankole: Okay, priscilla, I guess what's your
Bankole: verdict.
Bankole: Is it cinema?
Priscilla: Yeah, I'll take cinema.
Bankole: Okay, that's good.
Bankole: Guys, please listen and thank you.
Bankole: Come listen to the rest of is the cinema on
Bankole: the top of 29 episodes on the feed.
Bankole: We've all heard the horror stories
Bankole: top-build actors having to do their own
Bankole: hair and makeup, major Hollywood
Bankole: productions not having black barbers and
Bankole: set hairstylists quote, unquote, none of
Bankole: them in different ways and a weave.
Bankole: And if you haven't, then you'll find your
Bankole: way onto the right podcast because, as you
Bankole: hopefully know from the title of this
Bankole: episode, we are focusing on a new emotional,
Bankole: insightful, affecting, insert hyperbolic
Bankole: adjective here documentary that highlights
Bankole: the struggles and emotional pain faced by
Bankole: UK black and brown actors in the hair and
Bankole: makeup trailer.
Bankole: Untold stories, hair on set is created by
Bankole: Fola, Evans- Akingbola, co-directed by
Bankole: Fola and Jordan Pitt, and shot by Lee MJ
Bankole: Daley.
Bankole: All three service producers and joining
Bankole: Priscilla and I today, are two thirds of
Bankole: that super team.
Bankole: They've made this great documentary, but
Bankole: now I fear that maybe they may not be
Bankole: allowed to have a bad hair day again.
Bankole: Guys, welcome to the podcast.
Bankole: It's Mr Jordan Pitt and Mr Lee MJ Daly.
Bankole: Thank you for joining us, thanks for having
Bankole: us.
Lee: Thank you.
Bankole: This.
Bankole: Watching this documentary was emotional for
Bankole: me, but not because anything new was being
Bankole: said, but we've all, like I said, we've all
Bankole: heard those stories.
Bankole: It was just.
Bankole: Every time you're reminded that, as black
Bankole: people, we can't just come up and do the
Bankole: work.
Bankole: We have to bring all this extra baggage.
Bankole: We can't just be like, okay, I need to be
Bankole: in the scene, I need to be in this
Bankole: character.
Bankole: We have to prepare for the work as well as
Bankole: to prepare our hair makeup people.
Bankole: We have to make sure their guilt is okay.
Bankole: That was just quite emotional and that was
Bankole: not a question, that was just a statement,
Bankole: that was just.
Bankole: Let me just start off with that right off
Bankole: the bat.
Bankole: But yeah, I mean first things first.
Bankole: How did you guys get involved in this
Bankole: project?
Bankole: You don't mind me asking how did it come to
Bankole: both of you?
Jordan: Yeah.
Jordan: So Folla reached out to me I'm friends with
Jordan: her uncle, Jimi Akingbola, and she had
Jordan: already kind of pitched this concept around.
Jordan: Not having any joy, she decided to make it
Jordan: independently.
Jordan: So on that search she got that
Jordan: recommendation from Jimmy and asked who
Jordan: could I, who would you suggest that I reach
Jordan: out to to make it?
Jordan: And yeah, humberly he suggested me and she
Jordan: got in touch and straight away, yeah, just
Jordan: the concept being an actor as well, it
Jordan: really just resonated and it was something
Jordan: I instantly wanted to be a part of.
Bankole: Yeah, that's okay.
Bankole: So it was all through.
Bankole: She was the one that brought the idea to
Bankole: both of you.
Jordan: Yes, and obviously, well, obviously.
Jordan: But Lee is my co-producer, super DP.
Jordan: We've worked on many projects prior to this.
Jordan: So on her reach and out, I was like, yeah,
Jordan: I'm interested, Let me just make one phone
Jordan: call.
Jordan: One call was to Lee and, yeah, he was all
Jordan: over it With Lee.
Jordan: Sometimes you got to engage it.
Jordan: If you don't hear a follow-up phone call
Jordan: with further ideas, he's not interested.
Jordan: But call me back 10 minutes.
Jordan: I said, yeah, what about this?
Jordan: What about?
Bankole: that that's cool.
Bankole: All right, I guess when you can feel, when
Bankole: that enthusiasm is there, lee, does that
Bankole: track from your end?
Lee: Yeah, yeah, the golden knows me well, if
Lee: there's no phone call, there's a more.
Lee: Mr, entice me more, bigger, bigger carrot,
Lee: yeah yeah, get bigger carrot to entice me.
Lee: But he said it was just the fact that, like
Lee: I work in this industry and it was like
Lee: wait a minute, fala is an actress who's now
Lee: famous, she's had big shows and she has to
Lee: go up at 3 am to do her hair.
Lee: Truly, she's big enough to demand not even
Lee: demand to.
Lee: She's big enough to expect her hair to be
Lee: taken care of properly.
Lee: So I was like wait a minute, something's
Lee: not right here.
Lee: Like what kind of world we're living in
Lee: where it sounds bad but obviously fame
Lee: gives you privilege, right?
Lee: So I thought in my little head that her
Lee: fame but her privilege of getting the hair
Lee: taken care of.
Lee: But it's not the case.
Lee: So I was like okay, I'm interested, let me
Lee: see where this goes, because you probably
Lee: hear in a minute Jordan you had a light
Lee: bulb moment for Jordan as well but I let
Lee: him tell that story himself about hair and
Lee: getting it done and stuff.
Lee: But yeah, that was tracks for me.
Lee: That's how it was.
Lee: Like one phone calls like yeah, I mean.
Bankole: Okay, that's.
Bankole: I mean.
Bankole: That's really cool that both of you were on
Bankole: board immediately.
Priscilla: Yeah, yeah, cause, following on from what
Priscilla: you're both discussing about it, was there
Priscilla: any specific things?
Priscilla: Maybe public discourse, cause this has been
Priscilla: something that's been discussed so much on
Priscilla: social media Was there anything specific
Priscilla: that made you think, okay, I want to join
Priscilla: this.
Priscilla: So, for example, I think some of the was it
Priscilla: the discourse make you more inclined to
Priscilla: want to join in and put your own
Priscilla: perspective on what you think the issue is?
Priscilla: Was it from your own experiences that you
Priscilla: had within the actual field that you feel
Priscilla: like you want to put light on as well?
Priscilla: Or was it just general interest in this?
Priscilla: Okay, I can't say in this topic it sounds
Priscilla: weird, but this general experience that
Priscilla: we've all shared.
Jordan: Yeah.
Jordan: So for me, the initial pull towards the
Jordan: subject, I guess first being growing up in
Jordan: entertainment and I guess the light bulb
Jordan: moment that Lee mentioned I had never
Jordan: consciously experienced this and it was
Jordan: through that initial conversation with Ola
Jordan: that I'd realized, wow, actually these
Jordan: norms shouldn't be normal.
Jordan: So, for example, when I did have her go in,
Jordan: rocking up to set and not expecting my hair
Jordan: to be done and go into the barbers prior to
Jordan: get my hair sorted, and not having the
Jordan: option on set with men, generally they're
Jordan: quite loyal to their fathers.
Jordan: So you know, I probably would have stuck to
Jordan: one barber anyway, but you know it's only
Jordan: within the last three, four years was the
Jordan: first time I actually saw a black barber on
Jordan: set.
Jordan: So that just shows how far we need to go
Jordan: and how much of an issue it is.
Jordan: So, yeah, in terms of that was the initial
Jordan: alert to me because, even knowing the
Jordan: magnitude you know, admittedly I didn't
Jordan: know the magnitude of the problem until,
Jordan: kind of going on this journey and you're
Jordan: like, wow, like I can't believe it.
Jordan: Because you know, like, without speaking to
Jordan: people, you're like, at first you're like
Jordan: all right, it's, you got to get up a bit
Jordan: earlier.
Jordan: But then you know, you hear all the stories
Jordan: and go through the journey of it and you're
Jordan: like, wow, no, this is much deeper than
Jordan: then initially seems the norm, shouldn't be
Jordan: the norm, and I think about this since I
Jordan: first watched the documentary.
Bankole: I remember unfortunately I couldn't find
Bankole: the exact places said it by a little real
Bankole: hurry when I was talking about gets out.
Bankole: Obviously nothing but praise for that film.
Bankole: But I remember him mentioning that I think
Bankole: either they didn't have a black barber on
Bankole: set or the one they had was terrible.
Bankole: I can't remember exactly, but like if you
Bankole: see his first scene in the film, he's
Bankole: shaped, he basically doesn't have a shape
Bankole: up, because he was like no, I'm not, I'm
Bankole: not doing that.
Bankole: Obviously, you can see that as the movie
Bankole: progresses the hero probably went back home
Bankole: and he did his own shape up with his own
Bankole: barb, as you mentioned, was like this is
Bankole: get out, this is going to be an Oscar
Bankole: winning film, and like, still, they didn't
Bankole: have that kind of representation and
Bankole: inclusion on set, which I guess leads me to
Bankole: a good point, because I'm assuming this was
Bankole: came from Jordan and probably from Uli as
Bankole: well, because there's a substantial male
Bankole: perspective in this film, more than I would
Bankole: have expected going in.
Bankole: So I guess my question is actually twofold.
Bankole: First of all, we know that this is
Bankole: predominantly a female issue, or at least
Bankole: they are the ones that consciously
Bankole: recognize it right going in, like you said,
Bankole: you didn't realize that it was a conscious
Bankole: thing until you're like, wait, this doesn't
Bankole: feel right.
Bankole: So was there ever any hesitation on your
Bankole: part in producing this film, or actually co
Bankole: directing this film?
Bankole: Because, like, am I telling someone else's
Bankole: story and then conversely, what led to you
Bankole: input in putting that male perspective and
Bankole: the film?
Jordan: I think what I wanted to get across from a
Jordan: story or not a storytelling point of view,
Jordan: but, you know, from a directorial
Jordan: standpoint was to create that feeling that
Jordan: I had when I had that initial conversation
Jordan: with follow.
Jordan: I found it very kind of revolutionary and
Jordan: you know I had to look inwards and you know
Jordan: so that realization I knew that would
Jordan: resonate with a lot of people and, as you
Jordan: said, the norm is just to have like a
Jordan: female lead piece where people could easily
Jordan: say, oh right, it's not that much of a big
Jordan: problem.
Jordan: But, you know, showing the scope of the
Jordan: problem across male, female, different age
Jordan: groups.
Jordan: And there's a lot more we could have
Jordan: covered.
Jordan: But you know it's only 45 minutes that we
Jordan: had.
Jordan: We only kind of scratched the surface of it.
Jordan: But you know we interview children as well.
Jordan: We had stories from, you know, yeah, child
Jordan: actors who were suffering.
Jordan: So it's like, you know, the older
Jordan: generation, the present generation, the
Jordan: future generation, it's still a problem.
Jordan: And you know the main point of this
Jordan: documentary is to kind of force a change or
Jordan: at least start the discussion around it.
Bankole: Yeah, I like that idea that you wanted to
Bankole: use your role as for lack of a better term
Bankole: the minority here to kind of show everyone
Bankole: else this is what we've been missing,
Bankole: because it obviously there's a lot of
Bankole: benefit in the person who owns the story
Bankole: telling the story because it's their story,
Bankole: but also I guess there's a benefit in me
Bankole: saying I just found this out and I need
Bankole: people to find us as well.
Bankole: That's like you guys don't know what you
Bankole: don't know, because I didn't know five
Bankole: minutes ago.
Bankole: So that's very interesting.
Bankole: Can we go back a few seconds?
Bankole: So Fallout comes to you, jordan, you go to
Bankole: Lee, the three of you are together.
Bankole: You're like we like this story, we're going
Bankole: to self produce it, we're going to self
Bankole: fund it, which I know that's incredibly
Bankole: ambitious.
Bankole: Some would say stupid.
Bankole: They don't know what they're talking about.
Bankole: What was that process like?
Bankole: Self funding, self producing this
Bankole: documentary that ends up at Sky?
Lee: I think the first thing to speak about,
Lee: though, is what you.
Lee: The documentary you watched wasn't the
Lee: initial documentary.
Lee: Okay, documentary was.
Lee: Was was a very small scope, much more scope
Lee: it was.
Lee: It was followed wanting to shed light on
Lee: this, on this issue and the issue she has
Lee: as a black actress, and it was a day in the
Lee: salon she uses.
Lee: She doesn't use any other salon, it's in
Lee: the shortage called Kirtalk, and they still
Lee: with curly hair, right, no matter what
Lee: color you are, it's just curly hair.
Lee: So we spent a day we shot this documentary
Lee: in Kirtalk, and then, after that initial
Lee: shooting day, and we look back at the
Lee: footage and we've gone.
Lee: This is great, great stuff.
Lee: It's a good story.
Lee: I don't know, I don't remember whose idea
Lee: it was, but it was like this needs to be a
Lee: way longer documentary.
Lee: This is like the short thing, you see
Lee: bigger, and I think it was also a
Lee: conversation for them I had with one of her
Lee: friends, who's also an actress, who said
Lee: she wants it to her story, and then I think
Lee: it's a snowball effect, with one person
Lee: heard Everyone's like, oh, I got the same
Lee: story, I want to speak, I want to speak, I
Lee: want to speak, and I think that was the
Lee: birthplace of the bigger documentary Just
Lee: to add from that yeah, that's a good point,
Lee: because from the get go, I think for the
Lee: one to tell a short version of it and I
Lee: kind of I was in a corner no matter what,
Lee: so I always just left it, as you know you
Lee: can make a series out of this, you can make
Lee: a full feature out of this, but if you're
Lee: adamant, you want to make a short call and,
Lee: as Lee said, it's just that snowball effect.
Jordan: So you can make sure of reviewing the
Jordan: footage, the conversations with people, the
Jordan: caliber of people that are willing to sit
Jordan: down and talk on camera about their
Jordan: experiences.
Jordan: Yeah, it was, it was a no brainer.
Jordan: And yeah, after that it was.
Jordan: It just kept growing and growing and
Jordan: growing to the point where there was an
Jordan: abrupt stop to the process.
Jordan: It was like, okay, we're not shooting, no
Jordan: more.
Lee: Okay, so now we did all the way back that
Lee: we was an abrupt, he wasn't abrupt, he
Lee: wasn't a general abruptness where we all
Lee: agree Okay, we stop shooting.
Lee: It was like, yeah, I'm shooting.
Lee: Now we're like, no, no, it's more it's more
Lee: we can get more.
Jordan: But yeah, it was like I said, as Follower
Jordan: always says, a labor of love, that's the
Jordan: phrase.
Jordan: A labor of love over a two year period.
Jordan: And yeah, it's like I would always say
Jordan: we're just scratching the surface.
Jordan: There's so much more that could be covered,
Jordan: that could be said, but saying that, I
Jordan: think a lot of the power is in the, the,
Jordan: the length of it at the moment.
Jordan: So 45 minutes is short, impactful and
Jordan: leaves room for a lot of discussion.
Lee: But sorry, go back about the self producing
Lee: thing.
Lee: It's, it's.
Lee: It's for any filmmaker, especially as well,
Lee: like Vars not here, but a praise again for
Lee: being a first time filmmaker obviously me
Lee: and Tony quite a few times there but self
Lee: funding and being a producer of and being a
Lee: co director, imagine like she's an actress
Lee: she's never been on the other side of the
Lee: camera but watching her grow bit by bit,
Lee: being followed actress, being followed
Lee: director and being followed the producer.
Bankole: Yeah.
Lee: And so funding this thing.
Lee: It was yeah, it's watching, like sounds bad,
Lee: but watching the child his first steps and
Lee: then start running and by the end of it,
Lee: like I said I think I said it in a few
Lee: interviews by the end of it she was on fire
Lee: Like she.
Lee: She was like she if she was an actress
Lee: she'd be a great producer.
Lee: And like self funding is like I said.
Lee: He said one of the things he said is is
Lee: stupid.
Lee: It is like don't throw your own money at
Lee: your project because he don't know, unless
Lee: you got a deal, man, like don't throw your
Lee: money at a project.
Lee: But she had that much faith in what she was
Lee: doing.
Lee: She money spending the money wasn't the
Lee: issue.
Lee: Getting the story was the issue for her.
Lee: That was the outcome was getting the story.
Lee: And she had faith that it would be sold, no
Lee: matter what, like power in what we should
Lee: be capturing.
Bankole: Hey, can I quickly ask you about that?
Bankole: Because you, either between you or Fala's
Bankole: contact book, you assemble like a quite
Bankole: impressive roster of Oscar nominees and
Bankole: BAFTA winners and Emmy winners and
Bankole: everything.
Bankole: So, without getting too much in it, we
Bankole: don't need to reveal anything you're not
Bankole: comfortable with.
Bankole: But what was that process like?
Bankole: And was there points when it clicked and
Bankole: you're like, oh, we have something here?
Jordan: Yeah, I guess it's kind of, as I mentioned
Jordan: earlier, with the snowball effect, so the
Jordan: acting industry is very small.
Jordan: So you know, if someone's not a friend,
Jordan: someone's a friend of a friend, or you know,
Jordan: and you've got one person talking on camera,
Jordan: then you realize, okay, so then that
Jordan: person's accessible, all right.
Jordan: So let me ask about person A or person B,
Jordan: and when they come back and there's not too
Jordan: many back and forth from there, instantly
Jordan: interested, like I said, those were the
Jordan: moments.
Jordan: You know, oh wow.
Jordan: You know we're going to be talking with
Jordan: Naomie Harris, Nathalie Emmanuelle and so
Jordan: on and so on, and you know the fact that
Jordan: they're still going through issues is mind
Jordan: blowing.
Lee: There was that moment as well where we had
Lee: our what's the word?
Lee: White whale, right, I think we had a couple,
Lee: to be honest, like it's a few, but like I
Lee: remember like it was like what are the
Lee: conversations about?
Lee: Did we start filming now?
Lee: And like, obviously Folla's using contacts,
Lee: everyone's using contacts and she's like,
Lee: like Jordan said, the community is small,
Lee: so everyone knows everybody else by
Lee: probably one degree.
Lee: So like I think Fola must have sent off an
Lee: email to Naomie Harris way, way back in the
Lee: start.
Lee: And so, towards the end of the process,
Lee: we're about to wind down.
Lee: Literally, I think we better stop filming
Lee: when Folla was like.
Lee: Folla was like she's just multi-part
Lee: messages.
Lee: So she's like I got great news and we're
Lee: just like what's the great news?
Lee: She's like Naomie Harris, and I think
Lee: that's that's when it's like for me.
Lee: I took back.
Lee: I was like okay, we've got all these great
Lee: actresses and Naomie Harris, this is, this
Lee: is insane.
Lee: So yeah, through the whole process I was
Lee: quite chuffed with the amount of people on
Lee: camera, especially like the male actors we
Lee: got as well.
Lee: Like I was just like yeah, this is, this is
Lee: way beyond special, like, and it's all
Lee: these UK actors as well, it's just great to
Lee: see Even my mum knew some of them, which is
Lee: good.
Bankole: That was a great test to know how, how far
Bankole: you've made it, when, when, when, the mums
Bankole: know about you.
Bankole: Animation plays a pivotal part in this, in
Bankole: this film.
Bankole: How early in the process.
Bankole: Obviously, you said this.
Bankole: The final version was not what was planned
Bankole: originally, so how early in this, I guess,
Bankole: the new process do you know?
Bankole: Okay, we're going to use animation here.
Bankole: I heard Alex from Don Dada Studios talk
Bankole: about how they incorporated their own
Bankole: experiences in crafting the animation.
Bankole: So was that something you wanted to do?
Bankole: You wanted to get someone that had personal
Bankole: experience, or was that just a happy
Bankole: coincidence?
Bankole: How did animation come to play part in the
Bankole: final version?
Jordan: I think I'm very sure that was for this
Jordan: idea in the initial, because when we, when
Jordan: we had spoken initially and started
Jordan: expanding it obviously something like this
Jordan: there's a danger of it just being interview
Jordan: heavy constantly thinking of ways to kind
Jordan: of break it up.
Jordan: So she had mentioned animation and, yeah,
Jordan: that was pretty much in the process before
Jordan: most of the filming.
Jordan: So very, very early on to the point where
Jordan: the documentary had, like I said, it keeps
Jordan: expanding.
Jordan: So really it was, it was to serve a shorter
Jordan: piece and then the worry was are we still
Jordan: going to be able to use it in this longer
Jordan: version that we now have?
Jordan: I was always confident that it would work
Jordan: and, yeah, thankfully, you know, once it
Jordan: was all finished it did and I think it
Jordan: breaks up the piece nicely.
Jordan: So, yeah, big, big shout out to Alex from
Jordan: Dundada.
Bankole: Yeah you can definitely feel the personal
Bankole: touch from the animation, like it's not
Bankole: just somebody trying to draw Fola and
Bankole: trying to draw what it means for a mother
Bankole: to brush her daughter's hair.
Bankole: You can feel that as like somebody's lived
Bankole: in experience and that was I was working on
Bankole: it.
Bankole: It makes sense that that's something that
Bankole: has been there from day one and it was just
Bankole: like it just evolved to the story as it
Bankole: went on.
Bankole: Speaking of moms, I know this is the scene
Bankole: that, like Priscilla and I both really like,
Bankole: but please correct me if I'm wrong how I
Bankole: feel, like once your host has a white mom
Bankole: who is also an anthropologist, you know
Bankole: very early on that that's going to play
Bankole: pivotal role in documentary and you know
Bankole: that, look, at some point we're going to
Bankole: have to talk to your mom about this because,
Bankole: like, who's going to give us better, better
Bankole: knowledge?
Bankole: What was that like?
Bankole: Because that scene is incredible, the
Bankole: breath of knowledge that she goes through
Bankole: in what three minutes it's just I don't
Bankole: know.
Bankole: She speak about that scene.
Jordan: Can you say three minutes?
Jordan: You know, again there was a lot more times.
Bankole: Oh, I had a feeling yeah, we had a feeling
Bankole: that was the case.
Priscilla: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jordan: Yeah, my mom's amazing.
Jordan: You meet her and just speak to her.
Jordan: Generally, it's my general aura, so I'm so
Jordan: pleased that that translated on screen as
Jordan: well.
Jordan: And again, that was something that Folla
Jordan: knew she wanted to include.
Jordan: You know, a lot of our conversations were
Jordan: about how to expand, how to make it
Jordan: different, how to make it approach it as a
Jordan: 360 approach, the documentary on the whole.
Jordan: So a lot of these ideas were already
Jordan: brought to the table and then it was just
Jordan: constant refinement.
Jordan: So again, it was Folla birthed and created
Jordan: the piece and from there it was just the
Jordan: three of us.
Jordan: You know it was a playground, so to speak,
Jordan: for us to just keep talking about refining
Jordan: in it and how to make it.
Jordan: Yeah, just to attack it in a 360 way.
Bankole: Yeah, no, no, no, no, that answers the
Bankole: question.
Bankole: That answers it perfectly.
Priscilla: So I think the main thing when coming back
Priscilla: from documentary which I was I mean I told
Priscilla: Jordan this when he first came on which I
Priscilla: thought I've seen many of Black care
Priscilla: documentary and this was probably the most
Priscilla: well done, so I think it gets the
Priscilla: perspective of everyone.
Priscilla: So I think sometimes we tend to I think
Priscilla: they tend to pigeonhole, pigeonhole
Priscilla: themselves in specific areas within Black
Priscilla: care, but to get both the male and female
Priscilla: experience of what it's like to actually be
Priscilla: in this industry and getting your hair done
Priscilla: like men are going through.
Priscilla: Just I can't imagine trying to get a trim
Priscilla: in Hollywood and the barbers not on it at
Priscilla: all.
Priscilla: But the main thing I wanted to know about
Priscilla: from what documentary was was there a story
Priscilla: that one of the actresses or actresses told
Priscilla: you that actually shocked you, because
Priscilla: there's things that we know about before.
Priscilla: I mean what I think, what I took a while
Priscilla: shocked about?
Priscilla: Even I thought this could, maybe it'll
Priscilla: happen, but I thought surely not.
Priscilla: Was any one of the actresses talked about
Priscilla: how she had to send a video of tutorial on
Priscilla: how her hair needs to be done?
Priscilla: That completely.
Bankole: I was.
Bankole: I think that was follow, wasn't it?
Priscilla: Follow herself.
Priscilla: Yeah, yeah, follow herself.
Priscilla: And I was completely shocked the idea that
Priscilla: you have to send a video on how to do
Priscilla: someone's hair.
Priscilla: But is there any other stories that the
Priscilla: actresses or actresses have told you that
Priscilla: you thought, okay, wow, this is a lot worse
Priscilla: than I actually thought.
Jordan: I would say that I wouldn't pinpoint any
Jordan: one story, and I say that because each was
Jordan: so different and shocking.
Jordan: So the fact that you've got people's hair
Jordan: that's damaged falling out, is people with
Jordan: you know, live court cases.
Jordan: So each time I don't know that you can, you
Jordan: can chime in, but yeah, each time I sat
Jordan: down was just like a wow, kind of well, you
Jordan: know, because again, with this 45 minute
Jordan: piece, some people's individual interviews
Jordan: were longer than the out piece.
Jordan: Yeah, it's, it's hard to pick out one
Jordan: individual story, but yeah, they were all
Jordan: revolutionary.
Lee: Yeah, though I think that I think you're
Lee: right.
Lee: For me there was no one story.
Lee: Actually there is one story, but it's not a
Lee: bad story, it's a good one.
Lee: I think it's OC right.
Lee: He speaks about getting his hair done, with
Lee: the white female barber cut his hair and he
Lee: was shocked when she got it right.
Lee: That's the story for me, like in terms of
Lee: like the more shocking in a good way.
Lee: By the way, all the other stuff it sounds
Lee: bad, but I expect it like after like
Lee: hearing the first few, like they all told
Lee: it very differently, all very different
Lee: experience and everyone has a very
Lee: different emotional response.
Lee: I mean, I think, like I think it was a
Lee: Dominique Tipper she had.
Lee: Obviously she speaks about having great
Lee: experience, about experiences, but like her
Lee: and also everyone's energy is very
Lee: different.
Lee: Like she was very, she was like a, she was,
Lee: she was adamant that this is going to make
Lee: the change.
Lee: Like her energy was that, like she's going
Lee: to her story and this is making change
Lee: Right.
Lee: So her story as well, one that stuck with
Lee: me just to her whole interview because of
Lee: her energy, but also her whole story was
Lee: great because also in building the
Lee: documentary, I think it's in the
Lee: conversation we had a few times it was also
Lee: about this can't be like a crying piece,
Lee: it's just tears, but it also has to have
Lee: some some joy about our wonderful hair and
Lee: about our skin, has to have some joy in it
Lee: as well and like just just some of that.
Lee: Having that in the documentary as well is
Lee: important and some of the edges different
Lee: edges brought into the documentary gave us
Lee: those joyous moments like OC and I think
Lee: David had a few few laughs, yeah.
Priscilla: There's many more laughs.
Lee: By the way, there's many more laughs in
Lee: there, especially from, like, some of the
Lee: older actresses.
Lee: You know, miyaki.
Lee: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, she has a great one
Lee: as well.
Priscilla: It's just building on what you're saying.
Priscilla: Is there a conversation that you want to be
Priscilla: built on from the documentary that you know
Priscilla: building on what you're saying, of course,
Priscilla: that whilst there have been many terrible
Priscilla: experiences with black hair within this
Priscilla: industry, but, however, there have been
Priscilla: some life spots where, like what you're
Priscilla: saying, many of the some of the actors were
Priscilla: saying you know what?
Priscilla: This person got my trim right.
Priscilla: It was actually really nice and it made it
Priscilla: easier for me to go into work.
Priscilla: Is there any other conversations alongside
Priscilla: that one that you want people to take away
Priscilla: from watching a documentary?
Lee: take away.
Lee: Funnily enough, there's one thing I would
Lee: have loved.
Lee: I think me and Jordan both would have
Lee: gotten into the documentary that we
Lee: couldn't fit in because of time constraints,
Lee: and I think the message what I would like
Lee: people to think about is what can I do as
Lee: someone who works in the industry to
Lee: further the knowledge bridge, the knowledge
Lee: gap, for people who can't do black text?
Lee: We had this issue as well about phrasing
Lee: the term with about hair, filling that
Lee: knowledge gap.
Lee: How do you fill that knowledge gap?
Lee: I think that's what people want people to
Lee: take away from it more than all the issues
Lee: people have had.
Lee: The issue people have had should be the
Lee: catapult to bridging the knowledge gap.
Lee: And there's another whole conversation
Lee: about knowledge gap we found with some
Lee: other stuff that didn't make into the
Lee: documentary.
Lee: Like, if you're in London, you should be
Lee: able to fill that knowledge gap pretty
Lee: easily right, because London has a large
Lee: black population.
Lee: But if you live in someone like Carlisle,
Lee: how, if you're a hair artist, how of any
Lee: color, how do you get to do black hair in
Lee: Carlisle or Scotland?
Lee: Like there are black people there but
Lee: access to them as a hairstylist that's part
Lee: of the knowledge gap as well.
Lee: Like it's okay, saying you need to learn
Lee: that, but how do I learn that?
Lee: And that comes with where you are in the UK
Lee: or in the world and also having someone
Lee: like Kevin Fortune's Academy where you can
Lee: go and do that and like.
Lee: Another story is like in Kevin Fortune's
Lee: Academy.
Lee: We went there and this lovely lady from
Lee: Canada came from Canada to train a black
Lee: hair and she was mixed race but live in a
Lee: white family and never got to do black hair
Lee: and she came all that way just to train at
Lee: his amazing Academy.
Lee: So that's for me, that's a story of.
Lee: That's the people to take away from.
Lee: The documentary is just bridging the
Lee: knowledge gap for everybody because, like
Lee: my mom's hairdresser, she can do everyone's
Lee: hair because she had to.
Priscilla: Yeah.
Lee: And I mean most of the population is has
Lee: Caucasian hair, so you have to learn to do
Lee: it, so you know and like yeah, it's just
Lee: crazy.
Lee: It's just crazy Like the knowledge gap is
Lee: the issue and feeling that gap is what
Lee: would people to think about?
Bankole: Yeah, I mean I can't remember if it was for
Bankole: last mom or I thought I was talking about
Bankole: it, but it's just the idea of us being
Bankole: other right, like a black hairdresser would
Bankole: know how to deal with white hair, but a
Bankole: white hairdresser thinks, because black and
Bankole: curly hair and whatever that's other I
Bankole: don't need to, like, really know about, and
Bankole: it's just obviously the document is really
Bankole: good because not only does it paint this
Bankole: problem, he also gives advice, it gives
Bankole: things that could be solutions and I think,
Bankole: yes, like you said, the knowledge gap,
Bankole: people actually wanting to make changes,
Bankole: people actually wanting to learn the
Bankole: different, like yeah, I don't know, it's
Bankole: like everything, I guess it just comes on
Bankole: people actually wanting to, willing to, to
Bankole: see the change.
Bankole: And this is not even in any way comparable,
Bankole: but when I did, when I was working on my
Bankole: short film it was the first show I've ever
Bankole: done and my co-director is white and I was
Bankole: we self funding, hence the stupid comment
Bankole: earlier and I I was like, look, we don't
Bankole: have any money, but there are two things
Bankole: I'm going to have to pay for.
Bankole: I mean, if I have to take out a loan for a
Bankole: DP that can light black people and make up
Bankole: artists, hair, make up artists for for
Bankole: black women, because black men are cast.
Bankole: Those are two things.
Bankole: Anything else I could stay up late and cook
Bankole: for the cast and crew and bring that as
Bankole: food, as catering, whatever it takes, but
Bankole: those two things we need to have
Bankole: professionals do this and I just I don't
Bankole: know.
Bankole: I think obviously I'm a black man.
Bankole: I've heard the black story, so maybe I'm
Bankole: more sympathetic to everything.
Bankole: But like, just people just need to be from
Bankole: everywhere, from Warner Brothers and Disney
Bankole: all the way down to the, the short film
Bankole: production down the road.
Bankole: I think just to Priscilla's point.
Bankole: Earlier, I think was Madeleine stating how,
Bankole: like she doesn't have one good memory.
Bankole: That just broke my heart.
Bankole: She's been on CW for like 10 years.
Bankole: Yeah, I was like how how do you not have
Bankole: one good memory?
Jordan: It's so depressing, so depressing, and we
Jordan: did look for it in terms of good
Jordan: experiences, all of our conversations.
Jordan: That was a question asked because, again,
Jordan: for a documentary, you're looking for
Jordan: variety or any story.
Jordan: You're not just looking for all the same
Jordan: stories.
Jordan: So we were searching for and we got some
Jordan: you did.
Bankole: You did.
Bankole: I mean, yeah, like it got to it.
Bankole: It's actually funny.
Bankole: When the good stories towards the end
Bankole: started coming in, I wasn't expecting it
Bankole: and it was actually quite like shocking
Bankole: because I was like I was in that part, like
Bankole: in my depressed bag.
Bankole: I was really really.
Bankole: I was like, okay, this is, I'm going to be
Bankole: sad now.
Bankole: And then the good stories came, the clips
Bankole: of people dancing and makeup trials, like
Bankole: the.
Bankole: Acting is the difficult part, Directing is
Bankole: difficult part, Shooting is difficult part.
Bankole: We shouldn't let the prep be difficult as
Bankole: well.
Bankole: Like, why are we?
Bankole: Like?
Bankole: The white actor is just going to walk in at
Bankole: 5am from for his 530 call.
Bankole: He doesn't need to care about all of this,
Bankole: but we have to be up at 3am.
Bankole: It's just, it's just a lot.
Jordan: And do you know what a part of me gives the
Jordan: benefit at a doubt is of?
Jordan: Sometimes this isn't necessarily malicious
Jordan: and we call it as we said.
Jordan: It's a knowledge gap and if it was
Jordan: overlooked before out of ignorance, cool.
Jordan: But now, with the documentary, in terms of
Jordan: what we want people to take away from it,
Jordan: from my point of view, is that now you have
Jordan: no excuse.
Jordan: Now you know, let's create that change in
Jordan: culture and do better.
Jordan: Yeah.
Bankole: Yeah, I know, I think I guess we shouldn't
Bankole: mention credit where credit is due.
Bankole: I think on the day when Sky announced that
Bankole: they were purchasing this documentary, they
Bankole: also announced that they are new.
Bankole: They have their inclusion scheme for hair
Bankole: and makeup on, for black hair and makeup on
Bankole: their set.
Bankole: So, like again, just it's those little
Bankole: things, like we've seen it recently with
Bankole: things like the intimacy coordinator, on
Bankole: those kinds of things, that just make a big
Bankole: difference in the industry as a whole.
Bankole: Just again, I keep restating, just so they
Bankole: can do difficult work of acting and
Bankole: directing and shooting, because like they
Bankole: shouldn't have to care about their hair and
Bankole: making sure the hair makeup artist feels
Bankole: okay about not being able to deal with
Bankole: their hair or whatever.
Jordan: So it's been a very On the end of that,
Jordan: actually just to further give Sky their
Jordan: credit, that was actually in motion before
Jordan: the documentary.
Jordan: It wasn't like the documentary was there to
Jordan: push that initiative.
Jordan: So yeah, it was just about timing.
Jordan: Yeah, coincidentally, so that was in place
Jordan: and this documentary was put in front of
Jordan: them by one of our exec producers,
Jordan: producers Andy Mundy Castle.
Jordan: And yeah, it was just alignment and timing
Jordan: and that was in motion prior.
Bankole: Yeah, I should have mentioned that, thank
Bankole: you for pointing out, and this has been a
Bankole: great conversation about a great topic, a
Bankole: very intellectual conversation.
Bankole: So I would not be myself if I didn't derail
Bankole: it into something stupid.
Bankole: And please feel free to plead the fifth.
Bankole: But you mentioned you did allude to this
Bankole: earlier and I'll talk to Priscilla about it
Bankole: how many pints did Fola and Dr Gillian
Bankole: Evans go through?
Bankole: Because, based on the level of those
Bankole: glasses, that was a long conversation with
Bankole: probably several pints each.
Bankole: I mean you can plead the fifth.
Bankole: Folla is in here to defend herself if
Bankole: that's what you want to do, but it seemed
Bankole: like it was a very, very long conversation.
Jordan: No pints man, that was just green tea.
Jordan: That was good to know that was green tea,
Jordan: it was daytime.
Bankole: Folla is in here for me, for the
Bankole: Cross-Access Administration, who you guys
Bankole: are here, jordan and Lee.
Bankole: This has been a great conversation.
Bankole: I'm so happy I got to watch this
Bankole: documentary.
Bankole: I've already recommended it to friends and
Bankole: some of the people that I know in industry.
Bankole: I just think it's something, that it's one
Bankole: of those times where I think of people like
Bankole: that's something that is vocalizing what I
Bankole: already knew.
Bankole: But I thought I was going crazy.
Bankole: So somebody else is saying it.
Bankole: I can show it to people.
Bankole: I wasn't shouting at, the sky was falling.
Bankole: It's a really great documentary.
Bankole: I hope you guys are proud of the work
Bankole: you've done.
Bankole: As Priscilla, who has worked way more
Bankole: blackhead documentaries than me, says, it's
Bankole: the best she's seen.
Bankole: I don't think I can praise her any more
Bankole: than that.
Bankole: Well done on the job, thank you.
Bankole: But yeah, I guess, before you go any other
Bankole: thing, you want to shout out to listeners
Bankole: Anything you have coming down the pipeline,
Bankole: anything you already have out that they
Bankole: could check out.
Jordan: Yeah, we've got some of our previous films
Jordan: that Lee and I have worked on, produced
Jordan: together Coffee Short Film, which won fan
Jordan: favorite at ABFF a few years back, and
Jordan: we've got High John, which we released at
Jordan: the top of the year.
Priscilla: So those are both on.
Jordan: YouTube.
Jordan: Now you can check those out.
Jordan: One Umbrella Productions and, yeah, check
Jordan: out the documentary Sky Documentaries and
Jordan: Now TV and yeah, now we're just in, we're
Jordan: just underground.
Jordan: Now just prep him what's next?
Bankole: Yeah, just do your lap of honor, take the
Bankole: credit and then, like I need to give a
Bankole: special shout out to Fala.
Bankole: Obviously it's an opportunity she couldn't
Bankole: be here, but I hope she as well.
Bankole: Based on what you guys have said, like,
Bankole: this is all her, this is from day one, so I
Bankole: just really hope that she's also very proud
Bankole: of the work she's done, because this has
Bankole: been a great documentary and just the
Bankole: contributors, everyone involved, just
Bankole: seemed to really knock out the park.
Bankole: So well done to both of you and everyone.
Jordan: So big thanks to Fala as well, just for
Jordan: trusting us bringing this vision to life.
Jordan: Yeah, because from day one it's been a
Jordan: journey.
Jordan: It's been a beautiful journey and just
Jordan: obviously, for certain days there was a lot
Jordan: more people involved.
Jordan: But you know, as our core teams, a lot of
Jordan: long zooms together, a lot of late nights,
Jordan: a lot of early journey.
Jordan: And this is as with any project that you're
Jordan: making, but yeah, with the three of us kind
Jordan: of at the core.
Bankole: How long was the interpretive Like?
Bankole: When did she reach out to you?
Bankole: Top of 2021.
Jordan: Oh, wow, wow, yeah, yeah, but that's one of
Jordan: the things of producing something on the
Jordan: indie level.
Jordan: We've got to work on other things.
Jordan: So we all had you know, fala had acting
Jordan: jobs come through, yeah, out of the country
Jordan: various times.
Jordan: He's working full time in the daytime
Jordan: anyway For me, yeah times where I was away
Jordan: as well on jobs.
Jordan: So you just got to make it work.
Bankole: I do.
Bankole: I understand that way more than you believe,
Bankole: yeah, but yeah, thank you very much for
Bankole: this.
Bankole: This was a great conversation for a great
Bankole: documentary and I hope anyone who hasn't so
Bankole: far please go check it out on now.
Bankole: Tvs on sky yeah, thank you very much,
Bankole: jordan.
Bankole: Thank you very much Lee.
Bankole: Thank you, thank you.
Priscilla: Thank you so much, guys.
Priscilla: It was an enlightening experience.
Jordan: Pleasure.
Jordan: Thanks for having us on.
Bankole: Thank you for being here.