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A nostalgic look at classic music, video games, TV and films asking the question: "Does it hold up?"
Each episode features a different host that brings a fresh take on a film, TV show, video game, or music album of their choice. What can we discover? Do old favorites have a shelf life? Will the classics hold up? “The Classic Hold Up” is an AudioVideoLand production by Digital Storytelling students of Michigan State University in collaboration with Impact 89FM.
Welcome to the classic hold up, where we analyze media from the past. Each episode features a different host that brings a fresh take on a film, TV show, video game, or music album of their choice. Do old favorites have a shelf life? Will the classics hold up?
Speaker 2:Hello, listeners, and welcome to another episode of Classic Hold Up. I'm your host, Mira Naktsu. And in this episode, we're going to be talking about the anime icon and my personal favorite, Neon Genesis Evangelion. Neon Genesis Evangelion was an animated TV show made in Japan by Hideaki Anno and produced by Studio Gainax released for the first time in 1995. The basic plot premise of it is that it's set in a post apocalyptic version of Earth where a catastrophic global event called the second impact caused by a failed human experiment involving a powerful being called Adam leading to the near extinction of humanity.
Speaker 2:Now an organization called NERV is taking charge of keeping the planet safe and preventing another one of these events to occur to be called in the future the third impact. They send out three young pilots named Shinji, Asuka, and Rey in giant biomechanical units called Evangelions to combat alien like creatures called angels that threaten the third impact taking place. With this summary, one might assume it's a regular mecha show like Gundam where we see robots fighting things and winning the day and all is good. However, this show does something completely different. It's a deconstruction of the mecha genre.
Speaker 2:It doesn't solely focus on action as one might see primarily in this genre, but it covers the consequences of piloting such a unit, especially at a young age, and the mental health and trauma every character faces to be talked about more in this podcast heavily as this is the show's primary forte. Not only that, but the Evangelions themselves aren't your typical mech. As I said before, they're biomechanical. There's more to them than meets the eye. As for my experience with this show, in the past, I admittedly was a bit standoffish towards the general, I suppose, medium of Japanese animated shows due to how I saw them being interpreted online with people who like them a bit too much and the questionable fan service that tends to show within most of them.
Speaker 2:Regardless, I knew about this one particular show for some time and grew more curious about it as time went on. I ended up finally deciding to watch it one summer month, and it's probably one of the best decisions I've ever made. I'll never forget that feeling I had watching it raw for the first time. It was also a pretty important time in my life that I ended up watching it, with the show's thematic messaging correlating with my current state of mind at the time. I like to joke about it, but it's as if, it was fate that I ran into this show when I did.
Speaker 2:To say that I enjoyed this show is an understatement. It really connected to my soul tenfold, fitting for a show that delves a lot within the aspects of one's being and psychological mind. I felt very invested in the characters and each of their personal struggles and arcs as the story progressed, especially the main character, Shinji. Looking at how his character unfolded and acted most of the time was almost like looking into a mirror. Of course, there are moments where I know I would act completely different.
Speaker 2:But within the moments where we see him in this low mental state, I completely connected to that and understood how he felt. It was to the point where when the ending happens and all the characters start congratulating Shinji for coming to a positive outlook on a life in a POV view shot, it was as if they were congratulating me at the same time, seeing how I viewed myself through Shinji's eyes. I'll be honest. I broke down that night when I first finished it. It really hit me hard at that time.
Speaker 2:And, sure, I ended up watching the rest of what this franchise had to offer, including the end of Evangelion movie, which came two years after it, and the Rebuild movies that released in the early two thousands finishing in, I think, 2021. And I enjoyed them all the same, But none of them hit me more like the original show did. Next up, we'll be talking with a guest who has had experience watching this show and felt touched by it as well as I have. Hello, and welcome back to this episode of Classic Hold Up. I'm your host, Aaron Naksu, and today we have a special guest, Devin Bush.
Speaker 2:Hello. Hey, Devin. So, I know that when I, kind of announced that I wanted to do an episode on Evangelion, you were very passionate about it.
Speaker 3:Yes. I was very excited. As soon as you mentioned in class, oh, I kinda wanna do Evangelion. And I immediately was like, I wanna be your partner right now. I immediately, I was like, can I call Dibs?
Speaker 3:And you were like, yes. And you were a little nervous, okay. And I was like, I'm doing it. I'm glad you said yes. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because I'm very excited to do this.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, with that passionate response, I guess, what's your personal experience with Evangelion?
Speaker 3:So, my personal experience with Evangelion was I never really heard about it. I had only heard of it. And, like, I have a ton of friends who love anime and have recommended me tons and tons of anime. No one had ever recommended Evangelion. I had heard it.
Speaker 3:And I've mentioned to people, like, I kinda wanna watch it. And they were like, I haven't seen that one. I've heard it's okay. So I knew nothing about it going into it. And that was the correct experience to have.
Speaker 3:And I think that's like a disclaimer to start off is if you don't know anything about Evangelion, watch it. Please. It is an amazing experience. Likewise. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Continuing on with the episode, let's
Speaker 2:talk about how this content was viewed past, present, future. Mhmm. Let's talk about the past, how it was viewed on release. Yeah. So I suppose when the show originally, like, came out, it started really slow because of, like, its heavy themes and Japan not being so into that at the time.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It was very much like a just a slap in the face for things that people what what people were expecting, it was not what people expected. And that's what makes it good, but also when you're not expecting it, it can kinda hit you.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Exactly. So it started slow, especially with its first episodes being kind of slow in general with mood instead of, like, the high paced action that we all expected, the mecha genre. But, yeah, with that slow garnering, it eventually, by word-of-mouth and with broader, like, broadcasting, it garnered more of a following, and then I guess more people got into it, yeah, over time.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It was just like it was like an exponential, just like massive growth. And I know Evangelion is absolutely huge once it, like, really hit with audiences and just went crazy. But it's hard to overestimate how, like, how much of a splash in the pan it was when it first started. Like, it was interesting, but people weren't super into it, and, like, it just blew up.
Speaker 2:Yeah. No. People were very into it as the show kept, like, going on and on. Like, it became one of the biggest animes at the time to the point where when the final two episodes hit with that ending. We'll we'll talk about
Speaker 3:We'll talk about it.
Speaker 2:But yeah. It caused a divide in the fan base where, like, there was a lot of backlash. A lot of people were expecting a conclusion to the actual, like, plot, but instead got hit with this, what I suppose, acid trip.
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely. And the initial reception in The US, I'm sure it was large, but it definitely wasn't as big as it was in Japan especially because I had never heard of it and I was like big into learning about all these super influential animes and stuff. I was really big into finding them. Never even really crossed my radar. I don't even remember where I heard of it.
Speaker 3:I just had the idea and I was like, I found it somewhere. And I was like, oh, I'll give this a try. I've heard of it and I was amazed how many people who love anime and love the history and the importance of all these important shows never watched it. And I was just amazed because from what I've heard of in like Japan, that is absolutely not the case. Like if you love Japan and love anime, you absolutely love this show.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But with Backlash, it kind of like spurred into like what Hideaki Anno because Hideaki Anno, like, was very adamant with this ending in general. He really wanted this to happen, but because of what was happening with fans, including many deference, actually, he kind of got pushed into making the end of the Evangelion movie, which kind of gave the fans what they, quote, unquote, wanted.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Which we won't be discussing the movie today, but, yes. It was a much needed push that he made to get the ending that people wanted.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And that kind of correlates with how it is viewed today in which it's just a giant icon within the anime industry. Like, I know when I was in Japan over the summer, like, it was one of the big, like, shows of the time other than, like, the shown other shonen anime, like One Piece, Dragon Ball, Naruto, whatnot. Evangelion was amongst those giants in the industry. Like, I remember visiting, like, a giant life-sized Evangelion unit one.
Speaker 2:It was spectacular.
Speaker 3:And I'm I will be infinitely jealous because that sounds incredible, and I would love to see it, and I've seen the pictures, and I'm like, oh, come on. Like, I'll I'll get there eventually.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Know. But yeah. No. It's huge now.
Speaker 2:It's, again, one of the classics. As you mentioned, it's a must see. If you know anime, you've definitely at least heard of the show Mhmm.
Speaker 3:From how big it is. And it's amazing hearing your experience with like, oh, it's up against all these huge shows because like it is not over here. Like I had heard of Dragon Ball, had heard of One Piece, I had heard of like My Heroic Hamia, Hunter Hunter, all those. Never was Evangelion even mentioned near any of these shows. So it's amazing to hear that it is that popular somewhere else because like it is just not here.
Speaker 3:I don't know particularly like the specifics because why I can guess, but I just found it fascinating when I did watch it and I absolutely loved it. I was like, why aren't more people talking about this? So when you said, like, oh, are we gonna do Evangelion? I was like, I wanna do it because, like, there's a lot to talk about. And I was like, I wanna talk about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Exactly. But, I mean, I guess it is something to do with Evangelion being, like, a more that over there kinda show. We're talking about, like, again, these heavier themes. That you don't see in, like, other mecha shows, and I guess, shounen shows in general, like, them being all action based, all, oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Evangelion, yeah, it has those, like, yeah moments, but it's mostly like, oh, okay. Yeah.
Speaker 3:The character development and stuff is just fantastic. I love the characters and just fell in love with them immediately and I get that with like other anime, like this was different. The depths that they had was just fantastic And I think the depths can really lead into how it will be like in the future and its future impact and what people later on will think of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. No. In the future, it will definitely it will still be there. Mhmm. People will still think of it as influential.
Speaker 2:Because, again, like, this is one of the most influential pieces there. It keeps getting referenced in other shows in Japan, like, just characters in general. Marvel comics like Penny Parker was just completely inspired by Evangelion. You can see some of the characters in one of the comic panels.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And and a bunch of, like, TV shows in America Mhmm. And movies in general. It's just it's like many other shows or classics. It's very inspirational.
Speaker 3:It's grown beyond what it started as, and it already started as a massive piece of, like, artistic expression, and it has just ballooned from there. And I think my first actual experience was the plushie meme. Like, absolutely. Like, I saw it everywhere. I was like, what is this?
Speaker 3:And I had no idea until I finished the show the second time. I didn't even realize it was a Ray plushie until the second time I watched it. I was like, oh my god. I can't believe that was an Evangelion reference. Like, I keep finding them everywhere, and I thought it was really funny that it's still today, I'm finding references that I didn't know about.
Speaker 3:And
Speaker 2:And, yeah, no. The one of the most classic pieces of reference is just the Shinji chair, you know, because you know, people keep doing it.
Speaker 3:People keep making it, and every time I click, and I'm like, I always have to, like, share it with my friends who have watched Even Gun, I'm like, I have to have to send it. And they're always like, how are there more of these? And I'm like, I don't know. And I just find another one. I'm just constantly sending them.
Speaker 2:Even with all this, like, yeah, it's a classic. It's influential. If it were to be released today, how do you think it would do?
Speaker 3:I think I would have a very hard time releasing today, but besides that, I think it would be super popular. Especially right now with like the I mean, it's always kind of been the era of like Shogun Heroes but like nowadays, it would hit like a freight train compared to like I mean, I think there's been more like heroes breaking the mold, and I I think it would turn really, really well right now.
Speaker 2:You sure? Really? Yeah. I I I mean, I kinda see where you're going with this, but like now people want more of that, like, upbeatness.
Speaker 3:I'm the opposite. I I like
Speaker 2:mean, like, people like their depressive shows and whatnot. Let me have this. But with, like, a show like this going as slow as it does at times, I don't know if people will be all into it. Especially, as you mentioned, like, hardly people talk about it in America. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And how, I suppose it is like a topic that Japan kind of goes away from, and they're still like sort of uncomfortable with it, but are like slowly getting less uncomfortable with it.
Speaker 3:There's a lot of themes in Evangelion that were ahead of its time even today that Japan does not really talk about much, especially in like shows and stuff, you don't see it. Like, you're not gonna see that kind of stuff in like Fire Force. You just you're not gonna see it. It's not gonna happen.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And, like, what you mentioned before this podcast, we were talking about how it came out within the twentieth century Mhmm. And how it was a very twenty first century show. Absolutely. It was ahead of its time, as you mentioned.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Because, like, the twentieth century, it was ending. It was just like one of the most brutal centuries of like human history with all these like terrible wars and terrible things going on and people had talking to people who have been through like the twentieth through the twenty first century being like they were so optimistic and so hopeful. And the twenty first century has not turned out the way we expected. It's not It hasn't reached twenty first century levels yet but like mental health is so much different nowadays Yeah.
Speaker 3:And that is where Evangelion like hits perfectly. It it like leans really heavily into like mental health and all these, like, all this imagery and artistic expression. I honestly was shocked when I heard it was released in the late nineties. I was like, this felt like a 2,000 show. And I was like, it was kind of incredible when I watched.
Speaker 3:I was like, how is this how was this released at all? Let alone, like, as good as it was and as modern feeling as it is for the time it came out. I was just blown away.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Absolutely. Likewise. Anyway, yeah, we're going to be back with more of this episode after this ad break. See you there.
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Speaker 2:Welcome back to this episode of Classic Hold Up talking about Evangelion. I'm your host, Aaron Axew, and this is my guest, Devin Bush. Welcome back. Starting off this section of the podcast, we're going to be answering questions from the audience. And looking at these questions, these are actually really good questions.
Speaker 2:Are you ready to answer some of these?
Speaker 3:I am absolutely ready.
Speaker 2:Alright. Well, let's start off with the first one. What is the religious subtext of an anime? Do you have anything to say about that?
Speaker 3:So that is a loaded question. Because when I first saw it, I saw a bunch of the religious, like, context in the show. And through my history of, like, going and taking classes on theology, I started connecting a lot of the dots and, like, it helped me make sense of the story that was being told. Like, the two characters, Adam and Lilith, characters are used loosely. And I was like, those names are very specific.
Speaker 3:They cannot be used arbitrarily, and they aren't. And I thought that was a super interesting way of, like, using context outside of your show to build a better show. And I really, really liked it because I was able to kinda like, I know what this kinda means. I'm like and sometimes it wasn't that, but I really liked the moments where I was like, I can, like, see the connections and see the narrative inspirations from theology, especially.
Speaker 2:Yeah. There is a lot of Judeo Christian, like, religious imagery within the show. The again, you brought up Adam and Lilith, like, they are used as angels, which are also part of Christian, like, religious Yes.
Speaker 3:Text. They're literally, like
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:In the in theology, they're like the seeds of life. In an Evangelion, they are literal seeds of life for earth. Is literally the plague. That's a main part of the lore which Evangelion lore, we could just go on about
Speaker 2:it. Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, other, like, angels, like, Sasha El, Ramiel, Zeruel, to name a few, they're literally named after real life angels and, like, the imagery of crosses being heavily prevalent for the show, and the literal, like, weapon called the Lance of Longinus being the spear that literally stabbed Jesus' side as he was being crucified. It's really, what, an interesting take on using it for a mecha show, especially.
Speaker 3:It definitely made it different than any other anime I had watched at the time. I was like, it was weird to see, but I was very happy to see it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And, actually, did you know that the creators actually wanted to use that just for so that it could be different from other, like, Japanese shows at the time? Because it was very exotic to the Japanese audience, as many didn't really know about Christian things back then. It kind of delves into our next question what the name of the show really means. What do you think about that?
Speaker 3:So, when I first saw the name of the show, I was just kinda like It's funny because I was like, man, this is a lot of buzzwords. This title means nothing. And in class, they were kinda like, this title means nothing. But it literally means everything. It literally means neon, which is new, genesis, which is the beginning or birth, the new birth through Evangelion.
Speaker 3:And that is the whole point of Neon Genesis Evangelion. And hindsight looking back, was like, that title was so clever because it kinda sounds like nothing, but it means Yeah. And I really, really love that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Especially for a show like this. It's literally humanity at a new beginning trying to get out of this post apocalyptic world. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Alright. The next question. How are the teachings of Sigmund Freud reflected in the show?
Speaker 3:So this is an interesting question because through the Freudian iceberg, you can feel that it was used heavily in the creation of the characters especially. The ego and super ego absolutely like reflected on every single choice the characters made, every single like minor detail when it came to like how they reacted to certain things. You can tell that Freudian's theories were absolutely essential when it comes to writing these characters into these scenes and making sure that they felt as realistic as possible, if not as close to the character as possible.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And that kind of goes with some of his fears, including Thanatos, which is a theory reflecting that we want to subconsciously destroy ourselves and return to nothing or to return to a simpler time, which is kind of reflected with how we want to go back into the mother's womb because that is our first place of security, which is heavily shown within the show, especially with the Evangelions themselves. It's literally the children entering the mother's womb, which is the robot.
Speaker 3:And it's a very literal interpretation.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Literally. The power cord that they charge the avas with are literally called umbilical cables.
Speaker 3:I didn't even realize that. It's Yeah. That's crazy.
Speaker 2:It's it's heavily shown throughout the piece. Yeah. And there's also a bit to do with his theory of psychosexual development as well. I won't be going into it too much, but it can clearly be seen through characters like Shinji where according to the theory, his lack of strong parental figures in his youth stalled his growth leading to issues with intimacy and relationships with certain characters. And then there's Asuka who thinks she's more mature and sees herself more in as an adult, openly trying to win over an older man at a show named Kaji, who obviously has to turn her down and have her see that she's still a child despite her desperation to be seen as otherwise.
Speaker 2:And with them being teens and going through puberty, you can kinda see the trouble that unfolds. And, yeah, I think it should be mentioned, at least to an extent.
Speaker 3:It's a very important part of those characters specifically, and it's hard not to mention it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Precisely. Which kind of delves into our next question. How does the show relate to Hideaki Anno's own emotional struggle with depression? In which case, we kind of have to see where this originates from, where he worked on a show previously called Nadia, The Secret of Blue Water, which was also produced by Gainax, which produced Evangelion as well, where it was apparently a nightmare to produce or work on and eventually kind of did bad, where it kind of put him in a mood and so Gainax gave
Speaker 3:him another outlet, another chance to create something and then came Evangelion. You can absolutely feel this struggle with finding what he loves through his art because Evangelion starts out with a very slow escalation. Like, later on, you'll start seeing more depressing themes. And when you're introduced to these characters, they all kinda have minor traits, like minor like character flaws and whatever that are just kind of built into character. And as the series goes on, they become very heavy burdens that weigh down on these characters.
Speaker 3:Similar to Shinji's search for acceptance and how this becomes a very heavy burden, like trying to find gratification through what he's doing and trying to trying to find meaning in why he's piloting the Evangelions. All of this comes to a head around episode 16 where the bomb is absolutely dropped on us.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Around episode 16, I think Hideaki Anno kinda realized that this show is him expressing his own depressive side. As you mentioned, like, episode 16, it gets really psychological, something we see for the first time in the show and where he kinda realizes that he can use the show to express himself and his own, like, view to the world. It kinda leads to a downward spiral where the show gets darker, it gets more apocalyptic, gets a little bit more existential. And then it comes to the ending where it leads into our next question, a big one.
Speaker 2:How do we interpret the ending?
Speaker 3:That is an absolutely loaded question. And I absolutely love it. And I kinda thought about it and if I had to describe the ending in two words, I think I would describe it as bittersweet acceptance. Because throughout the show, you're given all these characters that you really start to love, but you're given you're shown a lot more of their flaws. And, like, they kinda start, like, building up and up, but you still root for these characters.
Speaker 3:And the major themes of Evangelion is that humans aren't perfect. People aren't perfect. And especially in the later episodes, forgiveness is a very hard, especially for yourself. You're always the hardest person to forgive. And growth is also the hardest thing to notice from your own perspective.
Speaker 3:Sometimes you don't know how far you've come until someone tells you because it's a very hard thing to judge from your own perspective.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And so as we can see with the ending, it's the psychoanalysis of each of the characters. They're going through this whole instrumentality project. Each character is literally being looked down by the entirety of humanity as a case study, working on their flaws, trying to find themselves in the midst of everybody, what makes them individual and maybe healing within themselves, kind of accepting themselves. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And then what Rei, Asuka, and Misato are, like, the first three, and then we get to Shinji where he takes a while to kind of see that he can accept himself And where it gets into, I guess, Hideaki Anno's vision at the end where he wants to, like, kinda send out a message instead of giving a fleshed out ending to, like, plot, where he just wants people to see that they can accept themselves in a good way.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And I also wanna say something that I kinda came to the conclusion of while watching the show, and it kinda reaffirmed what I have experienced in my life and a message that I wanna share with everyone that the end of Evangelion tries so hard to push is there is nothing worse you could do to someone than making them believe they are unloved. It is such an important part of the finale is that it is so hard to forgive yourself, and sometimes you don't think you deserve love, but you do. It is so important, and that is why the final scene of Evangelion that, like, thanking all of the children of the world and, like, congratulating, it hits so hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's literally it. That's the final piece of text or anything we get of the show in general. Yeah. To all the children of the world, congratulations, you made it this far.
Speaker 2:You pushed through everything and found that you could accept yourself the way you are, just like Shinji did.
Speaker 3:It gets better. Yeah. And that is such an important message.
Speaker 2:And I mean, it's a shame that people kind of see the ending as bad because it doesn't really solve anything plot wise, which most people do want to see the show for, unfortunately. But it's it's so good.
Speaker 3:It is fantastic. It's one of those endings that it just surpassed all of my expectations. I was like, this is gonna be a fun show and like the ending broke me and I just bittersweet acceptance. I can't explain it any better than just those two words. Precisely.
Speaker 2:And then it comes down to our final verdict. Mhmm. Whether this holds up or not.
Speaker 3:I think it does hold up. And one of the reasons I think it will hold up in the future and it holds up today is the overall writing of the characters and how they tie together with world building. They don't spend a ton of time Like, they build the world, but they build it through characters, which is a fantastic, like, experience to watch and view. The characters are allowed to be flawed, but they're still incredibly enjoyable to watch and you will still root for them. The characters are so important because they feel a part of the world.
Speaker 3:The way they react to the world around them helps build up the world in and of itself and to create very memorable characters. Like with Misato and her drinking to cope with her job because of how much stress he's under trying to keep these kids safe. And with Ritsuko and her like, refusal to, like, give up her work and just delving deeper and deeper, not letting yourself have, like, a ton of free time to, relax and kinda, like, let it blow off, like, the stress just kinda piles on her and makes her do more and more work, tells you how strong their stress is and how literally if they do their job wrong, the entirety of humanity is just wiped off. And it tells you so much about the world building without paragraphs of dialogue and text. It's just just character interactions, and I think it's very, very well written.
Speaker 2:I completely agree with you, and that also leads into what the show holds very well with its theming. One being its existentialism and identity where, as we can even see in the ending, characters are trying to find a way of who they are. Like, for example, why Asuka is piloting the aether in the first place just because she wants to be the best of the best. Misato wants to, what, fight the angels says to revenge for them killing her father. And what Shinji piloting the Eva to gain approval from his dad, which is a big part of the show.
Speaker 2:He just wants to get approval from everybody. And, yeah, that also kind of dives into human connection with we kind of brushed this off with the Sigmund Freud question, but Hedgehog's Dilemma is also a really big part of this show in general. It's literally an episode title where
Speaker 3:Episode three.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Episode three. Where but Shinji kind of shows this Hedgehog's Dilemma, which is a case where we don't want people to get close because we can potentially hurt them if they do. Shinji shows this prevalently throughout the show. Not even Shinji, but most characters too.
Speaker 2:Asuka in general, where, like, Shinji and Asuka have a conversation about her mother really well, and then Asuka kind of, like, shows her true self once she realizes who she's talking to, and she's like, why am I talking to you? Mhmm. And then runs off. And so with that, the characters are trying to connect with each other, but they just don't know how to do that.
Speaker 3:They're building walls around each other, which is super on point and very literal when it comes to the angels.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And that comes with individuality as well, as you mentioned with the angels, them projecting an AT field in which is a barrier that's shown throughout the show, which individualizes, like, every creature Mhmm. In the universe, where it kind of, like, shows, this is my own personal space
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And nobody else can enter it, either mentally or physically in the case of the angels. But it's kind of shown with what the human instrumentality project at the end as well, where characters are trying to find their individuality through this whole swarm of other people where, I mean, the human instrumentality project to get into it is pretty much just combining all of human consciousness into one, where you can kinda see where how you want to be individual from that. And then kinda leads into escapism, where Shinji's whole motive is that he mustn't run away. He mustn't run away from the reality that he's trying to personally avoid constantly where he isn't loved, where he's trying to run away from his problems. He's trying to escape responsibility for violating the AVOD because it hurts him, but he needs to kind of confront that at times, especially in the ending, confronting that he can be a better person if he just tried.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. And I think that really ties together with, like the finding yourself in the world. I think Evangelion adds a lot of interesting thoughts to that conversation by including machines and human creation into that. Because not only do we have to find out our own values on life, but also we have to add technology into that. And that is one of those things that I think makes Evangelion truly timeless is there's always been, like, the themes of man versus machine or man whatever, but Evangelion talks a lot about the relationship that man has with their machines and their creations.
Speaker 3:And sometimes we're not happy with what we create, but that's kinda what we have, and I think that delves a lot into being an artist and being a creator. I can absolutely feel that where sometimes I make something and I'm not not exactly in love with that output, but it's a product of its time. And I absolutely I wanna forget it, but I also don't wanna live without it. It's a part of me, and I wanna remember it.
Speaker 2:Yes. Exactly. So with that all said, you think it holds up?
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think it holds up very well. It just, it's perfect, and it still exists today, and people like it for that reason.
Speaker 3:And it's still relevant. Yeah. Like, man with machine and the relationship between each other, how could that be more relevant than today? Yeah, and the future.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Especially as technology rises.
Speaker 3:It's only gotten more relevant as time goes on. If you haven't seen it, please watch this show.
Speaker 2:Yes. Do so.
Speaker 3:Do it. Alright.
Speaker 2:And that is all the time we have. Thank you, Devin Bush, for joining me in this Evangelion podcast. I know it was a little bit of a time commitment to watch that entire show.
Speaker 3:I wouldn't have it any other way, man. I love Evangelion. I loved being able to watch it again It with
Speaker 2:was nice talking to another, I guess, fanatic.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think that's fair to say. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And through this entire experience, have I convinced you to watch the movie?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I'm gonna have to watch the movie. I will You've got me hooked. I'm 100% in.
Speaker 2:Alright. Well, this has been Classic Hold Up. I've been your host, Erin Aksu. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1:Find the Classic Hold Up on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Follow us at Audio Video Land for updates, teasers, and behind the scenes content of all Audio Video Land productions. The classic hold up is an audio video land production by students of the College of Communication Arts and Sciences at Michigan State University in collaboration with Impact eighty nine FM.